Meeting with Clients
Let me ask you something, uh, let me finish up this took a couple of slice that I was goingto kill over, and then I'm gonna ask a quick question, but before I do, how do you feel? How would you feel if I'm if I'm talking to you like this doesn't feel kind of funny? Um, my superior right now, you know, um, before we get into it because we're talking about so much of the psychology of playing meetings, which is a lot of the problems that people ask me were based on claims meetings, some problems that we had discussed already. Where? How come I don't book weddings? Hicham, I cannot close deals. How do I get a sample? Albums? What kind of sample albums would be the best to show my work? Do you show full weddings or you show only portfolio weddings? If you're not experienced, should I show a full wedding anyway? Should I just show you my portfolio photos? Should I do this in starbucks? Should I fault? Meet my clients at our hotel? Should I meet them on my house? I mean, I had a long list of...
the problems. I think we answered a lot of them already based on that, um look this I have actually been pulling people for a long time when there are problems they would have liked answered in this course on it's my hope I mean, I don't know I think we've gone way over the hundred and one problems, but I'm just gonna keep on providing solutions tow this or what I think is what I hope it's a solution to you guys on dh we're going to keep on going, so but if you don't, if you felt like I have an answer a question, please ask it away uh same thing for you guys want to make sure that we answer as many as possible, so let me so the first thing I wanted to say bye to you guys this when you're speaking with in a client meeting, make sure your chairs are leveled that's it that's it now continue my training stores, slights, talking to someone down like that it's not exciting it's not exciting, nobody wants to feel like that. So that's what? We have this chair here on the side so when I call from this to this that's actually another question somebody post though I say it in front of them or do I sit across from them like so I said to the side or do I sit in front what's better so better right it's like we're talking you know, we're not I'm not talking down, you know? We're talking so all right, let me finish this to slights so is it better to sit next to them or in front of them? So actually, my couch on purpose has an l shape, so I do put the groom on the on the el part, I don't put the bride close to him but in front of me. So what? I mean, so let's say you're my right and you're the groom your you're looking at me this way, you'd be sitting, I'm sitting here, you're sitting and they're looking this way, looking at me this way you're sitting straight this way, you don't have to do this the reason why I do it is because people want to feel like they're being attention to them. So if I'm talking to you let's see, actually, if I'm talking to you crystal on dh see, well, they say actually is closer to you, you say you're a couple, okay, if I'm talking to you and then I talk to you it's, not us, it doesn't differentiate who aren't paying attention to more than if I went from this to this, so if I'm talking to you and then I then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna switch him, talk to david now now david it's like oh, this is my time now I'm feeling my time and then I go back to you chris sale then I go back to you david and you feel good about him I'm talking to both one of my clients ask told me one of the reasons why they really liked me was because the groom felt like I was paying so much attention to him as well a lot of photographers like like this with the bride like this they just start to the bride and the groom is like just there as an accessory like you might as well be watching the football game see so you do want to have equal attention you know, like I said this in the first day if you want to increase your yield off bookings remember that the bride wants the groom involved on if the groom finally makes an emotional gets excited on emotional decision about somebody hey, I really like david I really did I felt like he really connected and really connected with him in a school he's forest are amazing I liked him. Your force is going to be amazing if they like you anyway but if therefore are great it's just another added bonus but when the when the groom talks like that about you that brad is gonna be like oh, I didn't know you felt so strongly that's great let's not choose the photographer. How happened? You feel it's? Like, why do I even show up? Right? But if you show interest in excitement, um, you're going toe basically get the wedding book. No bride. Unless she's really weird. No, brian is going to be it's exciting that you're participating in her wedding choices. And then when you finally make a decision about something, you finally show some interest she's like, hey, you know, I mean, so very important. I think people miss miss, they underplay that the groom a lot. In fact, um, one of the questions that was asked on line to me. Us. Should you wait till both people can be at the meeting or should you show? Or should you just get the first booking possible? Like if the bright says, um, I can meet you by myself tomorrow for or we can both come together on next tuesday at six. The solution to that isthe wait till you both can come or try to do whatever it takes. Change the schedule, do whatever you need so you can book him right away. I mean, make him come right away. But with both the groom needs toby, they're very important the groom needs to be there. If that if the groom shows up, you're going to go through the entire spiel and then the bride is going to be like, what did you think it was? Maybe like he was awesome, but then she's like doubting she wasn't there, her fears have not been result. Yes, she going, how do you overcome if the groom is a one of a kind of get that a lot with brides like he doesn't really want to come? Er yeah, which, you know which happens, I always tell people you have to put it in terms ofthe off them. So you say, look, if the groom, if your fianc doesn't wanna come, I think it's missing out on a lot of stuff that pertains to him because people only want what you can do for them remember, that was on the slide, if you say, well, I like it when the groom is there that's not how you liking it that's not what can you do for them? So you said to say, look it's important for both parties to be there because you're both getting married. Last time I checked, there was a groom and a bride, so I'm the stuff I'm going to be providing for you pertains to you as much as it pertains to your to your fiance I think it'll be beneficial for him to be there because she's going to be interested in this stuff I have to say that to see how I'm gonna deal I'm going for the best photograph him and his groomsmen and so I could get to know him and have that energy going it's best for him to be there you can also say I don't wantto show up her wedding and I never mitchell groom and his awkward no no groom wants to feel like you show up and you don't even know who you are so you know when you do that you're appealing to uh to their features were like I don't know who you are who are you? What do you say we can get to know each other better which is better for when I'm photographing you want to feel like I already know you we can just you can just talk and you can relax you're gonna look your best if you get to know me better and they'll be like okay now go yeah I have a question do you ever met clients through sky for any other like videoconference off where the case that they're like in the other side of the world and they want to argue but they want to talk to the that are jaime with the lights on skype all the time okay? Because a lot of my clients are in spain there in ireland they're in some other place there in pennsylvania anything that you can give us to like deal with that kind of meaning it's really no different I do have my wedding album's ready to go but because it's skype you can actually show full photos whereas the physical album gets less importance because they cannot is kind of what we're opening in front of them and stuff I do show them because they want to see the texture of the paper that once you kind of what it looks like so you can try to kind of put it in the camera but I really deal more with smiling a lot being confident being strong not know playing with your hands were the nose mannerisms come across something worse online so we'll talk about that more but yeah all right I'm gonna ask you a quick question when you're finding that slide going back to the layout of the room where the brian room are sitting on opposite couches how do you get them to sit not next to each other? I feel like naturally they would want to sit next to each other on a couch let them okay yeah you're ideal setup is to have a bride here room opposing her but yeah but it depends where you put the chair where you will be ok not count not couches they're sitting on chairs in the couch but it was not your chair okay for something that's a corner of the room and you put your chair the opposition towards the corner, right? They're probably going to say it in front of you if you have this is the couch and you have another couch here like blessed canisters in the shitting in a couch and you're sitting in a couch okay if I put my chair here why would you sit there if I pull my chair this way you probably stayed there from home a chair towards the corner you'll probably see it and you can say take a seat, take a seat right? You know instead off nothing given table here also with you what do you have a slide show that you show them I have I have everything is that on a television nearby on the vision and the slight shows don't have any want to do with just I don't have one or two full slide shows but my slashes were based on challenges which we'll talk about it yeah so uh oh, I have it right here. See, the challenge is part of it right there. Okay. Uh slash shows with music let's talk about that real quick first of all music big topic music would be ah deal maker or a deal breaker you're trying to get people to relate with you on if you'll show us a song or something that's totally awful on or do you think it's good, but the bridles and doesn't appreciate us and like it, you're lowering your brownie points, you see what I mean? Also, music has a lot to do with your licensing rights to those songs. I do believe if you're going to be playing music, you need to buy a song from triple school music or something because those artists are that's what they do for a living. So why do we make money out of our out of there? The emotional response we get from earth, we get from their songs to our clients, and then we don't want to pay them for it. Which of steak it? So I think it's it's actually even nice when you say to somebody, if you if discourses given himself that the song is from fellow artists and you have a license to use the song because they appreciate that, you know, you didn't just use like, you know celine dion or something so it's important? I think people have actually I don't go around killing people. Did you know that that sound you just listen to what's licensed, but if it comes up like, what was that song I'd never heard of it, I'm like always by a fellow artist, I have a company called trouble's good music I used a company called triple school music, where you can download lance's music for use that where the artist make sure I make sure the artist gets paid for his work on the clouds they're like, oh, I respect that, I like that so that's kind of how you bring it off, okay, but also let prince, when you show prince, if you're going to show them, show them that you respect them, so have you guys ever try to compete at any photography competition at all? No, wait! One of the advantages of competing is not only the experience you get from learning on from the process, from the judging and from everything, but one of the best things is that when the prince came returned to you, they're already married and they're really printed beautifully and you can grab box feeling with those prints and you choose the past four of the most emotional impact possible. Show photos tohave contrast because people relate with contrast, so show some black and whites show some happy moments talk about the happy moment. What is the story behind that photograph? Don't make stuff up, be genuine, be honest show photos that are the private room dancing in the first dance, the grandma smiling and having a moment like that put this far off the complexion, why do whateveryou toe put a mass I'm now shows that you are your respect you work that comes into play when they start asking you for discounts, okay, if you're showing people on tv screens on lee ok, I want to talk to the camera because this is important if you were showing your work on leon screens, I pass tvs, apple tea, whatever people are used to seeing images in digital format on your actually prompting them, you're given them permission to discount your work when your work is in a nicely in a nice beautiful box and he has a velvet inside and you pull out the map and you're treated with respect, they're gonna feel really bad we like, yeah, can you give me forty percent off that's assuming they're just gonna be looking at your works and it's got really respect what he does or what she does so it's very important to give yourself the respect you minimize any permission, any subconscious permission that you're having they were giving them to ah to this kind of work, you know, like when you go toguchi, whatever you everything the shoes are in their own little box and their own little have a little light, right? You don't pick up those things and be likely do can you give me, what can you do for a brother? What can you do for a brother come on you're my brother from another mother what do you do for me let's talk let's talk right now no but if the same gucci shoes we're thrown in a pile brenda but they were throwing a pie or fifty you know he wasn't which yeah those gucci shoes are in that pile over there just kind of go through the pirate picket so you go through the fire life what it is this or seven hundred do path how much can you do all right well you know you're keeping the permission so if you're watching hope you remember that one of the questions people have that on the questions when I was asking john keyes and when I was asking all the other groups out there uh was how do you get people how do you discourage people from asking you for discounts? This is a great way respect your work respect yourself be confident in how you're selling your work be confident in what you're saying and trust me you will very much minimize any encouragement off them trying to this can your work okay so when you're dealing with albums let me ask you all this question please all of you answer how you uh choose albums to show and what's the strategy behind it or if there's any did you just pick your best weddings tell me how you go about album samples were going and I haven't an album here because I yeah okay whatever okay, what about you? Have you done? I haven't done wedding albums um but I've done, uh a few albums from our clients and I just have albums from they're shoots like, well, I have a couple different you have a company to choose those couple so I won't first of all things the same claims, like photographed a full session all sessions and then you put it in a book form and then you have it as a sample, right? Okay, so how did you choose those people? Um they turned out really nice and asked permission and they call it super quality they're beautiful, so someone should be filing your client and you're photographing mean, that would be really weird your your model from you are something. Yeah, like you kind of just getting if you're showing me pretty albums and pretty people on a pretty all the stuff you think would I have my concerns alleviate, alleviated or do you think I'm just fish? I'm just being engaged visually, right? No, I agree with you, you're just engaged. Officially I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but you're just engaging somebody eventually that's the rational part of the brain you're tapping into, which doesn't make the decision right, right? Whatever you, uh my wedding albums, they only have one album so I tend to show a lot of my work I'm digital galleries um and usually those are the ones that I am most proud of off like so I'm giving them like you said your platform classic to bp I like I'm giving them permission teo on ly see my best work and so their expectations are super high and so that's something I definitely toe work on why did you choose that? One couple who said I called paul was had an entire wedding my wedding? It was the very first wedding I ever shot, so I just use my free graffiti so I need first what? So I'm not super proud of it it'll pretty similar to her so I mean, I I think that in the process of making another album because I have only a few weddings like two weddings to work with, I think just pulling out the best images from second shooting and that kind of thing to vary eight I means the best that I can do with that I have, but I'm so I'm just curious to know what else will talk about with them, but so yeah format would be really and it's ok enoughto know because you haven't done it but no one here seems to want maybe no one at home seems to have done albums based on challenges I'm do we see the importance of that so have you done anything differently to steal yeah or is it kind of just oh well my first album that I sold was um of a family getting together um they came from places and they just called me last minute and say hey, I wantto take a picture of my family so I said great well let's tow it photo shoot and it was like twenty little kids and fifteen adults and I glow but of those pictures because it was also grandma grandpa I gathered it and she said I want an album of them and I'm like okay great so we did it out boom and it was a little different so I like selling albums made it a little bit easier with that because I tell the story I said you know what? This family bought me the album because they weren't going to see each other and she felt that this was an investment and you don't say that word bought me a line reading okay that's related it's bought me equals money equals show decider equal something's behind that there's something in the background I don't know about it equals danger app I'm going to reject you see what I mean you you that person body for you what if I don't I'm like kind of like the bad person you know I mean um so we'll talk about those kinds of vocabulary words that are key danger words money purchase getting like, you know, a choir there's certain words that some better than others that you want to stay away from the ones that you sound like, by the way, um oh, man, I lost my train of thought on that. Uh, you were talking about family album, right? Right. And I was a sit first and then they're after that's how I might get my clients to buy an album and, you know, it's it's because I show him that there's an emotion to it and and I guess that's what? What kind of attention? I thought not kidding back. I should have stopped actually stuff too, right? They all come back to me, you'll come back to me then whatever human, uh, well, normally show like, if I got to show a full wedding, I just do it detail, but for all of them, I have one. We'd let me stop. Okay, I remembered hit me back important when you were talking about the album's, right? One of the fears the brights have is the album that you're showing them is that a real wedding? Is that a full wedding or you're showing them the best photos off the wedding? One thing is, uh, when I do an album for a bride or a groom on actual plants album I put as many contrasts as possible in the album on purpose, so I don't put I basically make the best album I could tow to use us a sample album, but I have to include all the stuff that comes from a normal wedding too, but I don't put that the happy super happy moments next tow something that's very like a really great moment, so there's like an emotional rollercoaster going through when you're watching the other two when I mean so if you have photos off the ceremony and they're all from the back of the island, you just photographing their heads, you're basically killing any chance of you creating on emotional response other than that's the ceremony that's just the back of their heads. So when you do a sample albums, I recommend you do show full wedding albums the way you will show it to a bride and groom because if you tell them this is the exact album I gave my clients, that gives them a much clear a much more solution to the problem, which is, is this guy or this girl showing me only their best work? You know? And if they if you could take them through an emotional roller coaster in that album that you actually gave your clients, you're really hitting it hard, you're hitting a home run so sorry, continue yeah, so for the full wedding, I just show them the toll. But I have, like, a little album with that. I include, like some ofthe other weddings photograph there once that I really like you. Yeah, on indiana. Normally, I wouldn't include it in a bonus of that if they ask what I have engagement photos, because for me, all my process include the engagement because from is really important to at least before the wedding, I work with them so that's what I do, I have, like, and I for the engagement I choose like your key photos or like something that I really like. So because it's where I want to drive my style until, like, fun and you know that there's not running, I showed serious. Yeah, sure, but, you know, people online, one of the another problem that was asked wes what happens with portfolio albums versus real wedding albums? Here's the answer to that? There is no problem showing portfolio albums because you went okay, don't start with a strong note, right, but you by no means should only show them that because that's not going to alleviate their pain or alleviate their concerns so you go ahead and show them the at home for a few minutes, kind of blow them out of the water quickly talk about your style if you want to talk about what you can do for them when you're talking about your style so they'll say my style is romantic and days and that and this would say I really like to capture the romans that's already at your wedding and it's already there I'm just there to capture it I want to capture those emotions that are naturally happening at your wedding I want to make sure the unique moments that are happening or the unique things that happen that make give the wedding character are captured and you can have him in your book everything's in terms of you when you when you so yeah don't worry about perform your albums worry about support for your album and also complemented with a full wedding album on when you are doing full wedding albums pushes hardest possible to have an emotional roller coaster that goes through the book and make sure it's the exact same book you gave to the bride and groom that will alleviate a lot off um concerns that people may have birthday do you have, like three different albums that you showed like a lower level package middle package hie pecking of course yeah, I know yeah I'm gonna put this year uh can I have a clicker police or somebody? So do you have atleast four albums that you're meeting, then you would have and let's say three levels plus the portfolio album three levels what uh three different levels of album that the client in person it's either and more or less right so that with those all these different weddings you okay three plus the porter how many albums do you have it you're forty sample albums yeah forty yeah and they're categorized by challenges in my studio is away so many instances like I'm I'm getting married in a different country paying their seven hours right there to go for that how do you feel with a location you've never photographed report on you cannot tell your clients girlfriend the sun is the sun it doesn't matter my flash fires the same way your location then at seventy left when albums cost what five hundred dollars or more each um what do you suggest for maybe somebody at a lower level the wedding for a level you know, somebody who's getting into the business or maybe it's only averaging two thousand dollars a wedding may can't afford forty albums I'm sure you community of those over the years but um ugh I feel first of all I feel your pain about that I feel a lot of people spain about that it's expensive right uh it's expensive but that's actually a whole talk for six hours and not just that right there because choosing albums to show charging for your services we have the final first it's not cheap to be a wedding photographer, right? Or a portrait photographer? I'm sorry, it's not so we need to stop cheapening ourselves all the time. Okay? It costs us about eight hundred dollars for a typical sample or a typical album. I mean, if you get a sample albums still going to be about five hundred dollars that's expensive and then you have to pay for somebody to designing because if you design it, the price is going to be your energy level and the fight that you're gonna burn out. So the cost of you doing everything yourself is higher than just paying the money for it. I don't think if you're going could just have a professional photographer, you shouldn't be charging less than four thousand dollars for a wedding. If you're in the united states, if you're in mexico on the market is different, you got to just look at your expenses, look how much is it costs you to produce a product? How many of us have actually said it costs me this much? And that was another problem that was supposed to be nine about how often I have four sample albums if I don't charge a lot for something for my products and I'm like sounds like a personal problem like used don't call yourself a professional photographer if you can if you're not charging with a professional photographer should be charging now you can be at the beginning of your career but then you're always have to display that right like you're going to basically there's a waste to look into a smaller book for example graphics studio has uh you can buy just the cover's not the actual book but just the covers because really one of the things I talked about was being ableto handle the product and feel it so if you don't have a lot of sample apple because they're expensive and they are you can go to graphics studio and ask him for just a cover samples I mean maybe by one book and get a paper that's not that it's not as expensive to start but you know uh most album companies have a sample that they can give you the house random images off whatever but it teaches all the options that could be one way to do it just get that usually costs it's a starter kit usually costs it's pretty affordable I think like two or three hundred bucks on uh showing the different different options and then if you cannot afford are you guys cannot afford twenty sample albums go ahead and put the stuff online I mean on the computer or the or in the tv for remember that then you're given the permission toe asked for a discount okay, so let's move on okay uh let's move on we're going to talk about all the ten million problems you just asked me about playing two meetings we're going to go ahead and discuss we're gonna implement what we talked about with talking to the right part of the brain. Another writes that I'm talking about the correct side of the brain the part that makes the decisions no, you know what people are like should I go left and right and I was like yeah that's right I'm like what? Like right or away right about what I'm saying yeah that's right it's like a problem all right? So I'm gonna do what I don't really do, so we're going to go ahead and I'm gonna switch chairs so we can talk at the same level and I'm not looking down on you or anything like that not that I ever meant to that was just a stool I received so we're gonna discuss that a little bit when you prepare for a client meeting please try to think ahead about all the issues they may have in their heads before they come on second of off people related to you very strongly if you have hobbies that they can if you have hobbies for example um if you like knitting, leave your knitting sweater somewhere with visible if you like to fly remote control high performance awesome helicopters like I do I actually have my helicopters laying I put one or two of them I already told you when people come in on the first day you ever said that people come in the groom is there I know he's gonna be there the groom sees a helicopter we spend fifteen minutes talking about a non photography topic and we talk about the engine and we talk about the power and we talk about what he can do but don't let it get out of hand that's just the first connection is positive now it's not like this so nice to meet you actually please take a seat let me show you my work see what I mean it's oh hi what's going on how are you oh thank you for coming please take a seat oh what the heck is done oh the helicopter yes I I'm flying after I'm flying later today so I'm getting my helicopter ready to go for what every sunday I you do I fly my helicopter if it stirs that you say every thursday I fly a helicopter in the afternoons is super fund their incredible machines and I get you get excited they're like that's awesome I get up I lift it I have the guy carrie and feel like they weigh like thirty pounds or forty pounds and like I said whoa that's heavy you're like yeah this baby's beautiful in the air and they're like oh my god! That's awesome and you're like cool, right? I mean, you made a connection already just don't go on and on for two to three hours you know uh not to mention I'm a guy I'm not a slight not really, but I'm not a slightest advantage because I have to photograph the bride getting ready and that means I'm not that creep o like she's going to be there without her shirt we don't without with her dress off or whatever and you have to be the room with her so they're gonna be checking you out like this is the guy that's going to be in the room with me while I'm totally getting dressed so if I'm relating with the groom and I'm not really talking, I don't really bring it back to the bride um just just took it off, you know, the groom may like you but she's not really feeling it, you know? I mean so which is why I also mentioned I have photos of my wife and I clearly visible when I'm showing when I'm showing on if you have a girlfriend uh show for us put photos, framed them and put him in there because he makes the girl feel better to know that your mind is somewhere else your mind is not like yes, let me photograph you putting on your dress that will be fantastic that's actually my favorite part right you'd be surprised how you know sure this comes up so anything stop some of the better ones are hobbies like if you have a hobby put it so it's visible something sports related a little riskier because they don't relate with your team at least you can talk about the camaraderie or about the rivalry or whatever that's cool any alta alta matter thing any universities like I graduated from the university of arizona wildcats baby sorry sorry I love wild cats a issue socks just um you're not appealing to you no I'm not actually had a few clients come they're like armento is you and I'm like it was so nice to meet you guys thank you for coming please I can you know and then this are laughing and if we think a connection a connection you know I mean so you play with it just kind of play with it okay uh let's talk about the second topic should be about wedding logistics once you make a fact connection with the team I mean with the bread in the group go ahead and move on to the wedding logistics don't call it wedding logistics that's just for you. Okay that's just for you guys the first thing is you ask the client could you please tell me a little bit about your venue? Why did you choose the venue I did they say to you well it's outdoors it's got a lot of cool, beautiful life has got great plans has got great gardens you need to make mental notes that they like gardens and plants and they like that kind of scenery. Don't just listen and ignore you have to listen and then try toe captivate him. By the way, you show when you showed photographs, maybe you could show photographs that show gardens and show that kind of thing. Okay, if they say to you like, oh my gosh, I'm getting married at this vineyard because the nature is just beautiful and I've always wanted to have these gorgeous landscapes that are in total openness you like, oh my god, I totally get it. Let me show you this when I took in the middle of downtown los angeles, right, like you're not relating with which is what they just said there's really? Only two types off venues there is the landscape in a cherie once and then there's the ones inside hotels and city types. So when you spy your sample albums, you can separate them by nature, even you or urban venue and that's it. Okay, uh, one thing to keep track off I went through that I suggest you guys do during client meetings have your laptop readily available on when they tell you the name of the venue go online and look it up in front of them a shows excitement it shows that you want to see where they get married it shows that you are putting effort in tow already doing your research as if you were already hired. Okay, so remember this when they tell you I'm getting married at graystone mansion in beverly hills so whatever go to the west to be like grace dimension over the hills and start looking like all these are great I can see what I would do there I can see what I could do there this will be a beautiful place for this and then they start feeling like you're giving them this feeling that you already who really hired you it is you ready? Three steps ahead of the game compared to a photographer that's just asks where you're getting married at the grayson mentioned cool let me show you my work. Which one sounds more interesting to you which one it's gonna be more likely to capture your attention the first guy or girl in the timeline strategies this third item is a crucial one on we'll talk quite a bit about the pros and cons of each one of those. Well when they tell you uh are you guys willing are you guys going to see each other before the wedding before you ask him that you need to have that predetermined in your head show a wedding album with if you prefer to photograph of bread and groups each other before the wedding then show a wedding album and show them why that's great and they're like this happen because they way we show each other before the wedding we we had all this time and so forth, but if you ask him are you guys going to see each other for the wedding now we don't really want to do that and then you say, well you're dumb let me tell you why you should that's how they feel like I'm an expert you don't know what you're doing, I'm going I'm going to show you otherwise so be careful into order that you're right so if the problem that's that that's a major problem when do you put when do you put the time and strategies and how do you go about it? You don't talk about you don't ask him and they give you you don't give them a chance tell you what they want, you should show them what you want and then they will probably be more open to it. But no one wants to be convinced by a decision they already made especially men when they make a decision I didn't the photographers like no, let me switch it around, then you make the groom looks a little weak, you know nobody wants to feel that way so these are some of the predetermined fears that people have um I think in there when I was doing the pulse of the problems, a lot of people were posting questions based on these like can you produce like how do you how do you prove to them that you can produce quality work at their venue, right? How do you prove to them that you're not you're acting normal but you're really a freak show kind of in the background how do you prove to them that you can capture a full wedding including beautiful for the journalistic moments on dh candid moments instead of just the bride and groom pictures the solution to that is be ableto be able to anticipate all of these on actually addressed them while you're talking to them about their books and about the album is and about whatever we four they even ask you okay, it will make you look like an expert if you are answering on alleviating their issues with um them having to ask you the issues it's like it makes you look like your sink okay, so uh what kind of experience do you provide? This is a big one, a lot of target first friends I'm sorry a lot of bright friends come up to you che oh my god my photographer was great when I met him but then when he came to my wedding somebody made him mad and he just threw a faith in and he didn't want to participate in he was just making everyone feel like they were all uncle bob's with cameras and he wouldn't anyone shoot and got everybody really mad, you know? So they come with all the stories so everybody uncle bob's photographing behind you doing the family pictures and all of that say something about it during the album say it's bringing up be like look really you have to put it in terms of what you could do for them know what they can do for you so you say look for me to be ableto to capture your beautiful bride and groom portrait's with the most best light possible I need to get this done by this time so if there's uncle bob's photographing behind me we have two options to deal with them we can either a let him take a picture after I think the picture so they're not looking at the wrong camera which is going to take a lot of time or be if you could please call the people that you have that air going to be doing that or you can have your bit maid of honor say guys, please do not photographed during this time because we need to get this down soon and that when you're not the jerk it's somebody at a wedding party doing it for you okay if you're the jerk at the wedding everybody stopped photographing on the phone talking for here you look like that crazy photographer dude okay, so yeah, they line with them during the this initial meeting absolutely okay, we'll talk about it yet these are these are the fears that clients have this air also questioned people who have had on the internet and this's the solutions that I'm coming up with here that we've been giving them for example what are you not telling them? Remember I said that the brain likes it when it's clear and concise theywant to really be clear so if you come up with a timeline this is like well no if you want that I can show you that later but that's gonna cost you this much money no, you gotta put it all on the table this is what I do these air the collections don't call their packages but you sound like you're you know you package meat, you don't back it you're freaking artwork you know you say these are my collections this is what this is what I want to do this is uh here the upgrades here's what you can do it so clear rating for you you don't have to sell them on the upgrades yet wait till after the wedding, especially when you're dealing with album upgrade cells I go from a twenty layout graphics studio album to a monster double volume graphics studio album by the time I'm done with them twenties like this and I do like something like this thick and that's just one it's just volume one and then they have to buy another with volume to on dh then they're like, how much is that? And you don't really talk about it you say here's the price is going to cost you no eight thousand dollars more but um do you show um oh I guess you have sapped sample problem so you don't show that online tons of someone you what? Oh, I know what I was thinking when you actually bring them back to talk about albums you show that online do you have a way to show like, online album? Yeah, you can be signed the book with like for a junction or you're so there's a lot of science you can do a line I'm going to sign and all that but some, uh companies give you a movie file and you can show the movie file I'm gonna have some movie files here you can see. Well, yeah um you sure them so you can they can see it digitally honey, they can make changes, okay, okay, okay, after you had after you have what's the word when you forgot the word when you pretty determine their problems no. When you anticipate anticipate okay, your previous wise problem. True, but next time I forget that word it's and this is anticipated. I asked you like a rubber anticipate. Okay, that word always case goes out of my brain for some reason. Uh, if you anticipate their problems and you start solving them as the meeting goes through then like having photos of your your wife or what? Or your husband or whatever is shows that you're not a creep write things like that move on to this one. Say how you khun solve their issues but actually proved to them how you can solve their issues. Let me go to the camera here. Don't just go around telling people how you can solve all of their problems that's not good enough. Tell them and improve it to that. Tell him and then prove it to them. How do you photograph in a rainy day? Oh, I could do everything in a rainy day is romantic it's beautiful, my freakin rainy expert. All right, I think people are gonna be like, can I see what you have done? Sure, here's. One photo I took in the rain now good enough. Sure, here's a sock here's a sample album off the whole wedding in a rainy day, I photographed her wedding in main on all the guests came from england all the way to maine. I flew all the way. Domain had this beautiful venue. That wedding was amazing in there on the day before the wedding. It was beautiful. So went to play golf at the resort on the day off the wedding. It was like hurricane katrina. I'm talking downtown. Hurricane katrina, like the wind, would hurt my face when it hit me. It was hard core on, uh, that's, a beautiful sample from you. Now, because you you have you can see hail in the picking the pictures and stuff on the pictures. Came out beautifully because you have to be a honey badger. You have to not care about hail, rain or sun. You're like bringing it, you see what I mean? Bringing it? I talked about challenges. Uh, see, sarah, what are some good challenges you can come up with for wedding albums like you have rainy sunny? What else can you come up with? That would be a good one. No, but also, don't forget, um, timing issues. How here's a wedding. Based on a fifteen minute brandon groom photo session, what can you do in fifteen minutes? Here's ah, wedding album based on a wedding in downtown l a, where it was busy with cars and streets and stores and everything here's another wedding in a landscape in a vineyard in napa here's where here's an album where the families were all divorced on the energy was really negative and he was just crazy like people were fighting with each other and stuff like that how did you manage to still create great expressions that other faces you know? So and we ever have a story about what happened and how did you deal with it that alleviates their pain? So uh you sure think one thing that I've heard a lot of people concerned about is where the bribing and refused to see each other before the wedding and in the wedding starts after sunset so how can you make an album based on like not ideal lighting conditions? Okay, I'm so glad you asked that to be honest with you because everybody ifyou're a bride watching right now creative life if you happen to be a bride please can you forget the sunset? Okay, who cares about the sunset like you can photograph the sunset after when you're at the beginning of the reception you can step out and catch your sunset photograph you don't have to base all your wedding on the sunset you know you can see the sunset every night at six o'clock enjoy it then you know because from a photography perspective you can go ahead and show an album of what happens when your wedding is a transit time showing the flat disgusting flashes here in the flood in their face and shoving one with pictures were taken between the afternoon when the lights just wrapping beautifully around them trust me don't tell him because you're an expert telling because what you want to do for them this is an example of what happens at a ceremony during sunset you know here's an example of what happens when the bride and groom porches are two o'clock and we have a beautiful light to work with explain wedding I want pages and logistics with space this is very important especially the word logistics with space if you tell somebody my first packages twenty pages on you put the expectation that you can put the whole wedding in twenty pages you're doing yourself on them at this at this fair at the service you say look twenty pages is going to be forty forty pages is twenty layouts right? You can do a pretty small five hour for our wedding in this in this kind of layouts on dh if you put photos as good as yours that are big you're basically going to run out of space so you need to think about when people need to think about that I mean you need to be clear about how the upgrades work you can tell him you don't have toe get thea grace now you can get your upgrades afterwards you know what? Why don't you look at the photos? I didn't decide if you want to do the operation or not we will decide an album based on our on our best decide based based on our photos on you can decide what you want to keep the design or not and then they say, well, how do you design the album? Did you say we just have it with sand and I won based on your wedding? What are the moments? I'm I'm your photographer it's my eyes I'm working on your wedding the whole day so you say to them I feel like you about twenty out twenty laughs what I feel like forty two lances the way to go because of this and this reasons you have these photos and you make him big on people more likely well, you can always tell them look it's your wedding album it's not your birthday album if you're gonna spend if you're going to spend some of your resource is on an album it should be on the beginning of your family this's your record off the beginning of your family you know, two years from now most likely clients will forget about the fight that they spend another three thousand dollars in their book, but now they'll have the book forever okay let's talk about discounts on howto handle this counts all of you out there actually, the majority of the problems you had asked me about what's about howto handle clients that asking for a discount okay, when you're dealing with discounts if they started to ask you about this council every wedding, every wedding, every meeting, you've gotta reevaluate how you are showing your work to your clients. That's the first thing I want to talk to you about if everyone's asking you for this count, you're cheapening your work yourself, you're not putting value in it second, if they smell fear or desperation, they're gonna ask you for a discount. So when you're talking about your work in your prices, you do it with good posture, you do it with confidence on you do it secure of yourself, you don't go like this, you never go like this. Yeah, this package here, this one is eight thousand all man ouch! This is thie ouchy package because you don't want to remind them that they're hurting, right? So anyway, um, one thing that I do is I give them perceived value, so let me explain me own said earlier he likes to do engagement for issues to get to know the clients. I want to get to know my clients too, but I want to I want to get paid for it too, so I charge a certain amount of money for uh, engagement photograph on engagement session if you charge for engagement sessions, that could be a bargaining chip for you to use it later. So they said your charge two thousand dollars for an engagement session on day one and this is that engage concession important to you? Yes, it is. Okay, well, let's talk about what we can do and see if this would work for you. I like you guys, we relay this is a good I think the energy is really great. I would love to photograph your wedding let's, tow the engagement session for a thousand dollars or let's get you a bigger book for the engagement session or something like that. You can lower the price of the engagement session, so you end up charging for it anyway, if you charge a thousand dollars with engagement session, then charge two thousand on the price lists and then bring it down to one thousand while you're doing the bargaining so they get perceived value, you don't want to say, oh, let me throw in for free because what are you doing? Enough? What is the message you're sending across? If your telling them I'm going to put my talent on my time and yet don't even worry about it, just forget it just don't make no charge, what is that message telling them you can answer that I mean, you don't value your work, but you were doing this that you just said you charged two thousand dollars on paper for your engagement example, if you charge a thousand dollars for your engagement session one strategy and there's more strategy is out there, okay? This is just simply one this is one that I do and it has worked well for me a thousand dollars is this your church of thousand for the engagement session? Then I put that the gauge incision costs two thousand dollars, so when they start negotiating with me, I can drop it five hundred I can drop it a thousand and I'm still getting one hundred percent of what I wanted for the engagement session because now the client's field they have perceived value how does that not undermine your pricing for the wedding later on? Because if you just knock that down from two thousand one thousand were they not expect that later on with albums with everything else? Yeah, you're talking about pre wedding stuff, right? The package if you want it away with the wedding, you can actually do it too, but instead of giving because look let's be honest photographers who say they don't give this cancer, they don't do anything because they're too cool for school it's not true there's a lot of photographers out there was a lot of competition in your cities I know photographers there say they never give discounts the concert too cool for school and then I know the clients that hire them and they were given passing out discounts like crazy they want to get higher too my strategy is I'm very aware of how consumers think I mean I have a lot of experience in this and I have a degree in that and I remember the fight if you lower money value lower marine value it has a psychological effect but they're still paying for the engagement session you're throwing it out there for free because then your work is basically worth nothing you know you're telling them you want to get to know them too and it's important to them and you are you are here for them everything's in terms ofthe them so you say is the engagement session really important to you? Yes it iss I say well it's two thousand dollars but it will give us a chance to get to know each other if it's important to you I liketo give it to you for a thousand dollars and we can have a great time photographing it get to know each other and see how your sandwiching it you put the thousand and then you start adding all the bonuses you don't stop with the it's going to be a thousand ouch right? You say okay, we can do it for a thousand dollars it will give us a chance to get to know each other. It'll be fun. We could go out with interest are locations and you can have a great photographs and you can't even show some sound pulse and people were like, oh, my beautiful thank you that's it awesome! And they're done okay, now they're beautifully on. People on the internet have another problem. What about the issue with can you lower the package discount? Can you give me a discount on your packages or you're on your collections? Uh, no. That's where you put your foot down, you give them perceived value. Okay, look, I want I can't discount this and hears I'm gonna be talk to the camera on this one because it's important if I give you a discount if I give you forty percent off, I have put my heart and soul into my training so I can go to the baird the very best for your wedding. I now I feel like instinctively I go to your wedding and I feel like my efforts and my time has been discounted. And even though I still want to do my hundred percent for you instinctively, I feel like I'm being I was not appreciated or my work or my talent is not appreciated, even though is not true. I just instinctively feel like that and I don't want to give you forty percent of my work. I don't want to give you sixty percent of my ability. I want to be there one hundred percent for you. You don't have to go as far a sane would you like? You don't have to cause for a same here. David asked me. Can you give me fifty percent off on the package? Can you give me fifty percent off on the package? Oh, now that you ask, would you like me to give you fifty percent of my talent at your wedding? Would you like that? If you do a deal, I'll show up with you what? You don't have to go that far. You don't say that you make him think it, okay? You go up to them and you say I want to make sure that I'm there for you one hundred per cent. I don't want to go to your wedding feeling discouraged, okay, so I have I'm a full time photographer. This is what I do for a living. These are the pie purchase. This is the collection which encompasses my experience, encompasses my skills, encompasses the way I will capture your wedding in the style that you like, so I think it's best why don't I instead give you a bigger book? The book is it's seven hundred and fifty dollars for the next size up. Why don't I just give you what I instead give you a bigger book? Costa doesn't cost you any time you can sit there another order form instead of putting nine and how by thirteen you can put twelve sixteen on you're done, it costs you two hundred dollars you put the whole wedding because you're you're participating in the negotiation process, you're not being a jerk. You don't go like this. No, I do not give discounts. I'm too cool for school. No one wants to deal with a jerk. So what? I mean, everybody wants to feel like they're you released taking part in the conversation. So strip when you're writing your packages, be strategic about it, okay? Be strategic price. You're bargaining chips at a higher price, so when you discount them, you're still getting what you want for them. I'm having your mind. What are my bargaining chips? Mine, for example, are I can give you an engagement session for, uh, a thousand dollars instead of two thousand dollars. Okay, I can give you twelve by sixteen album even though it's valued at seven hundred and fifty dollars, because I have to pay for the bigger size, I am willing to give you a bigger book um to accommodate your budget and then your accommodating them, you're helping them out. What can I do for you? What can I do for you? You know, it was your budget six thousand dollars and you see what I can do to meet you there? You know I can give you you can also take things out of your packages. My packages include a lot of stuff because those stuff is a parking chip. For example, my albums include a main book, little mini books, a little other little stuff that graphic studio gives you. So I just say, okay, you khun this's expensive or is this is more than you wanted to spend? Bless you, why don't I take out the four guest books? And then you can take out a little bit of the money that you can take out stuff, but don't base counter, so don't give him the same thing for less money, you know? So, um, any questions on that? Is there any questions from the pricing? Yeah, and then the last can take things out. Are you going to take out the ala carte value from those like, if you're minny buck wise, that's a great question five hundred dollars, do you take a super super great questions so you're one of them I crave you so her question was if you take something out, do you take out the value of the ala carte section of the price list and it's a beautiful question and the answer is no you take out the wholesale price off that so if somebody says two you if if I think out the guest books I think you tell him I'm going to take out the wholesale price of the guest book so it would help him financially doesn't make really making much of a difference to you but to them like maybe they get a two hundred fifty dollars discount but you're still maximizing which money you're making because you're not taking out the retail value of that right ana again people want to feel like they're relating with you people want to feel like you're participating in the conversation because you want their business so you being a stuck up photographer I don't give discounts you're lying or you don't know how to negotiate at all you know and trust me from the bottom of my heart I know a lot of the big photographers in the world they all went to the same thing okay, everyone does it but you can strategically do it so you don't lose money on dh you khun bank on the emotional impact of your photographs if you take him that way to increase album sales after the wedding okay, thank you say to me like if I was going to charge say I don't know some crazy about for an album but then it only costs me like five hundred dollars do they like it all say, why are you charging me? No, because that's the album is simply the place when you put your skill sets right you're valuing that the album is a great product, but you're selling your photography right? You're giving the memories so if they want to remove a product, you can take it out you're not going to take out what the retail but it would have been because that retail value added the photos that were in there so uh yeah it's last but not least show excitement ask questions about him ok, once you've finished talking about the prices leone once you are done with the negotiations, you can go ahead and ask funny questions whether some of the typical questions for photographers ask bride and groom's o m g how did you guys meet? Ok and they want to grab something and just shoot themselves in the head if they hear that one more time, right? So come up with a better strategic question for them, you know, if they if you related with helicopters say, hey man, you should try one of the helicopters I can give you a store or uh what what is the what is something exciting that you're thinking about doing for the first dance are you going to do a cool tango? Are you going to just do it normal like what? Something we're doing that a cool piece or you thinking tango lessons oh that's cool did you guys always have tango lessons? Did you guys meet already dancing or something? Oh no we met like this and like that I don't like that see what I mean so you don't go up to them and be like how did you guys meet oh my gosh that's like so forced it's like pulling teeth I went as high as a client I went to hire my wedding photographer on every single wedding photographer told me how did you guys meet? How did you guys meet and I was like, why do you care that's kind of my reaction we own his reaction cycle cares man let's just get to it you know because he's not doing anything for me you know? So how did you get me it's? Not a good question but the answer is important so get to the answer in a different way you can ask about what's something special that they're going to do for their first dance what are some of the cool gifts are given to the bridal party and then you can ask reroute to question that way there's a game on wikipedia is called wiki hunt on wiki hunt you put like song you put like george washington and then they give you all kinds off question all kinds of historical things on using those historical things you have to connect the dots from one to the other to the other to the other until you get to george washington you play that game and you'll get really good I mean dealing with clients going like let me get from this point to that point to that point in order for you to get to the answer that you really want this how did you guys meet each other? You know, but if you're when you're watching online, I want you to remember this sentence please do not sound like any other photographer because isn't your work the ability to show your talent it's difficult for them to grasp it? Because it's art so a great photo from a good photo to a client is the same thing the only thing you have in your advantage is that you need to stand out you need to pop out off the list you start with a prop, you start with a hobby you sang which the prices you negotiate with your clients in a strategic way and then you finish the conversation with something off topic on light and that's what that is about and in an off topic light conversation