Validating Your Business (special guest: Noah Kagan)
Where to even begin uh what I think where we should start is perhaps just telling people a little bit about absolutely how it came to bay would be perhaps a good place to start if you'd like to start somewhere else sir I think what's interesting is kind of the journey of how it got yeah let's talk about that so a lot of people out there may be some of the audience some of the fans and the people watching I've had a pretty sort off the really crappy job I saw intel one of the things I was known for was sleeping under my desk I brought a sleeping bag like I would position the chairs I bring candles and I hated my job and I was working I was literally working the one hour work week uh I didn't do anything yeah and and I wanted to change so I ended up just kind of sitting my resume to facebook and that kind of started me off into the to the start of world and from their facebook I was able to build a lot of products they kind of think some of you guys may have heard of him anybody in the c...
hat room her to facebook but you worked on the ad formal so I don't facebook ads did facebook mobile uh facebook status updates and was one of these things where I think a lot of people who are building businesses you kind of have to do I really what I've found is you have to really be doing what you're interested in and things that you're using actively because my mom and my grandma my family were like facebook what is this facebook myspace is killing them like cheap my mom's like I saw him on oprah I saw myspace and over near you are screwed what do you doing stayed in tow on and you know, it was just like I really love what I love what they were doing I was really excited about going there and I think that's a really big takeaway for a lot of people is just think about what you're already interested in using are doing or think about what you're doing in your weekends you mean like right? How do I make a business out of that? Um and so from there I was able to you know, after facebook I went to mit dot com and years later now working up sumo dot com so absolute loafer for the people and we promote cool products that religion is yours also, yes, it's the first time kept getting fired for like, you know, entrepreneur and I was like, you'd get fired or let go and you know, I finally I wanted to have to say and have the freedom to run a business the way I wanted to run it yeah it's been a it's been interesting story interesting journey so this is side so entrepreneurs and and chefs had actually a lot they're both totally crazy generally on dh on people like oh that's so courageous of you to be an entrepreneur or that's so courageous of you to like follow your passion become a chef like nobody else would like soccer you know there's no way you know what's interesting about that is that like I'm actually risk averse most people think entrepreneurs like you riding motorcycles okay, I do I do right motorcycles but they think he like jump off cliffs and you do all these kind of crazy stuff but I actually don't start businesses until I know they're already working so I didn't quit mint dot com until I already knew that my next business was going and I didn't leave that to do up sumo until already saw that people were wanting what I was working on so people think of me as this crazy risk taker I'm actually not I don't view myself as a risk taker uh and when I start my first business same thing before I left well actually our whole entire sales division was fired, but before that happened the way you like it before they like dismantled and imploded, I had it up and running and protected uh and that's something I've been really impressed with when I've watched everything that you've done is thies prototyping testing it oration validation all that yeah, so maybe you could talk a little bit about what you mean by I only start businesses that I know are working or will work exactly that's a foreign concept to a lot of people. Yeah, eso I think maybe I'll stay a little of the counter of it where I've spent I was calculating last night, I've spent over twelve months of my life and over one hundred thousand dollars and things that have not worked right, so I keep doing all these things that are not working. I'm like, well, what actually will work eso with absolute specifically, I was like, I want to spend as little money as possible, and I wanna spend as little time as possible to know if it works and then if it doesn't work okay, fine, I'll accept that and move on to something else. Eso without seeing what you make a hypothesis that's all your businesses are it's a hypothesis I think people are fat and I want to help him through this method or that seem, I said, I want to promote digital products that I think I was just really great for startups, and so what you try to do is howto I minimized amount of time and money to do that so that soon it took me sixty dollars, and about a week never take to actually understand if that was a viable business, my hypothesis was, could I get two hundred people to buy a digital product online for startups? And so what? Most well, doing business, this is a very common actually call it an engineering disease. If you're an engineer, you guys are smart, does anybody or an engineer anybody now? Yeah. It's ok, have some pride, you're smarter than everybody else way engineers you watch you guys know you're smarter, it's fine. I have accepted that, but, engineer, what you do is you love to build really cool shit, right? It's really great to build something and then you go out with it and you're like, anybody want this? Anybody want this right? You'll? Er yeah, uh, the audience I'm sure that the people online know that as well, and so I like working backwards. I like going to a customer and try to understand. All right, what is the problems you're having? Maybe in message boards of forms like what things are people ready talking about? Like, go to a message we're going like I think it's big boards dot com you could find message boards on any topic, big boards, big boards, and then you could see people complaining about things and then you can actually go and solve that problem. So with my hypothesis stop sumo how I did it in the week and with sixty bucks is I went to reddit dot com and I said all right, well what are they really talking about? What products are they using and they're using inger which is a photo host uh what he does not like the means you probably see all these weird means online a lot of them write injured I know in our office set up somewhere they pass him around anyway, so for sixty bucks I basically was like or they're talking about him john read it so I know where my customers are. I know what the product there actually one is and I went to injured said let me sell this for you I will go promote this online and, uh I contact the guy in pakistan his name is mohammed you could email me no it up soon I'll give you his contact info and he's twelve bucks an hour and so I had him build the papal button and then I went on google and searched how to build a sight I really did I went to google and so I took that code that most pulled up a lot of really legitimately websites teo that's totally way giving you know, but I basically I searched the google like how to build a registration page and even now I could do it more get out now you don't even need to do that now you little I just need your papal email like hey what do you want so people in the beginning I posted on read it because that's where the customers are as we talked about and then people start buying it and I didn't build any really complicated back and I'm literally manually emailed everyone who bought so you say but I got an e mail and I was like all right let me go send you the product senate and what happens with a lot of people is they're building these businesses are like well I need all this back in complexity and I need to send them these things and it was like do you actually need that or can you really just do it manually for the time being and seeing people wanted yeah I need two scales like we'll make sure one person's gonna buy first please don't say the s word that's where lies I know that and that's funny because so many people have you know we're gonna talk to some people today they have these fantasies about I'm gonna have all these ceos and ceos and teo is and how am I getting a million customers and all these things and it's really like I call it the velocity to one dollar how can you really just break to your first dollar? And once you can start getting in that mindset? Yeah, it really changes your perspective about how am I going to get this business really working versus all the playing business? And I think one of the points the humane is really well, they're all important points and for what it's worth like in everything that I've done were one hundred percent of the exact same page. Now they're different ways to skin the business, kat but this is the risk averse, cost, minimal way, and one thing I did I haven't actually said this for when I wrote the fire chef is I pulled all my readers for their favorite cook books of all time if you can only choose one or two, which would the two be that you would choose, you could never buy another book. Then I had an assistant help me and you could do it yourself certainly narrow that down to only books, it had an average of four point five stars or higher on amazon, and then I looked at the the three star. Most helpful reviews are most critical, most helpful and looked for the things that they identified is missing. In those best books, and then I made a running list of all the things that were missing from even the best books, like in barbecue, they neglect brisket a lot. I was like, ok, great, we're going to short ribs, brisket, it's going to be in my book, and I made like a hit list because I knew the market was there that's a really high? I don't know if you guys got that almost like, just to repeat what you're saying, I'm not plus wanting you zero think that cut like these customs and amazon party bought something's already telling you what's missing, and now you can go serve them and that's not just on amazon has the message boards it's on twitter that sometimes when people are telling you what they want salts, that's, awesome knife skills thanks solved a problem problem problem? Okay, they're already spending one hundred dollars on two, three books to try to figure it out. Uh, so let's, I mean, we could jump straight into, we're going to do case studies, but what are some other common mistakes or rules of thumb that air? You're pros like your go to rules? I wrote him down, I put him in the ten commandments. My little black book a lot of these air from let me share some of the stories of what I've gone through so I help you guys understand and I'll relate them to some of the things I called the totem pole problem and what the totem pole is that tim would you pay me fifty dollars to take off your shoes every night if you want to massage my feet after the shoes come off that okay that eggs is right there that's that's interesting and so on the totem pole effect there's on the bottom of the pile of shit right? And so you're like I'm not gonna pay for the bucks taken my shoes but what did you say afterwards if you took them off in the massage my feet right so now as we move up people on the totem pole it's like well that's actually higher value proposition that's a higher problem solving for you uh and what I and so what you really need to consider is where you on the totem pole with your customer and what happened with me in the past is that I did credit card possible processing so we powered zynga's payments and tagged and area games and none of them woke up and said man, I really can't wait for no to do our credit card prostate today right because I would call him like hey guys it's no wonder like no who right? And I said, well, you know, tell me what you're bigger problems where you actually wanted that we really want customers yeah, right. So I was like, all right, that's higher on the totem pole so realize where you are in the totem pole with your business, a second key key thing that I've started noticing it's a really big train with entrepreneurs that were trying to kill, right? We want the people to all be entrepreneurs and successful but the term right want to produce? Yeah, yeah, is that they need time limitations. And you actually talk about this in your first book, I believe it's parkinson's law yeah, right. So you what happens is people extend time, and it allows them to just keep going and going. But the creativity comes when you reduce the money. So with absolute we're spending almost over a quarter million dollars a month in advertising, and when we cut that down, too now about ten thousand a month, you actually have to go. Should I want to see results arm or how do I be created? Right? So with the one from her instead of you have three months to validate your business and see if people want it, spend a week, yeah. Spend a weekend spend tonight like literally after the show today I think it ends all at nine o'clock go and finish the validation that you've been having in your checklist and the fact they only have three hours to do it like you're going to today with some of them will shift your mind sets um one major major thing to other things I really, really want to highlight is accountability. I'll tell a depressing story. Kind of two weeks ago we brought in five entrepreneurs to the absolute office in austin. We walked him through their business we made sure it was what they want to be doing. We literally mapped out what they were doing. Their due dates their commitments and then two days ago we implement it alright guys, we gave you everything need we gave you the blueprints who walked you through it? You kicked ass right? Like we feel really good. This would makes us feel good as well seeing you guys get the results and can anybody guess you guys guess what happened after two weeks? I'll do it same time one, two, three now is weak wait one, two, three is better that was like happy birthday at a restaurant I happy birthday uh that yes next time noticed that restaurants but what they saw but nothing happened nothing happened. It was really disappointing. And so what I've noticed that's a key thing for people that will break through the inflection point or when there's a little bit of hardship is accountability. So a real accountant, not like well, he didn't do it, I would have right someone who's like hey, what happened today and, hey, maybe you need a punishment. How do you how have you seen that done for entrepreneurs like it's? A good way, teo to set that up, besides having nok and kick you in the eye, I love kicks him that isn't asking for money. I'm never getting out there. Um, I think there's two ways. So each person has different ways of being shekel issues. I dream about fulfilling dreams too. Thanks, but so I think there's two ways of accountability there's a positive and a negative and it depends on the person. So I'm I swing both ways. You could have. I could do it either. Positive. Negative. Um, I've read some books recently. I think one of them dropped it healthy where he was talking a jacob? Yeah, so right for him. He actually said that he had a check for a thousand dollars for the nazi party if he ate dried mango south from there guys yes, I know so stick dot com with two k's at the end you just use an anti charity so there's the and so that's the negative motivation where and it has to be painful that's the real thing because it's like ten bucks then I'm like find ten bucks it doesn't really bother me but if it's something I would think about there's also lift up lift out d'oh which is a positive reinforcement really great one you can use it every day you just check in like I've been doing meditation for forty five days I stopped now but for forty five days I did it and now I don't need lift yeah and so the negative one is the consequence of positives lift or I'd say small winds for accountability so what I do every morning is do I do it? Gabby you know gaby is no so I held it just it's evolved over time so I work with adam for my body tutor dot com and every morning like clockwork ease male gabby gratitude exercised breakfast you and this is what I'm a positive reinforcement person. So what that means is every morning I write three gratitude things so one of my gratitude was I'm excited to be on the show cool, right? Yeah thank you excited on and then my exercise today's waits so I'm free committing two weights we could be oh my breakfast was an egg white omelet with little bit one piece of dry wheat toast and then my you today was making this a great segment for everybody watching for yourself you you so how am I doing me today? All right and so I found the getty to be I've been working with adam and I found that to be a small win each morning where I say here's the one thing for me today then I do that push me for I love it why's it gibby if it's gibby gibby gratitude exercised breakfast you oh yeah can't language guy s o heads up we have about five minutes yeah, okay with so total or to get to the case studies? Oh yeah exactly. Okay, we're good we're good. We're going to make one point, please. So one thing that I did that really helped me when I was building my business isn't and still to this day when I'm working with startups is I keep a swipe file it's an old term for copy editors so they would find an ad that convinced them to buy something and they would take it and they analyze and figure out why it got them to buy another way to go about that, huh? Some kind of a sucker for a good infomercials I love them they're like they're so split tested more like ninety second spots like the ones that you see running all the time or working because those are expensive okay, so the ones that run for a really long time like bowflex p ninety x whatever I would buy these products not because I cared about the products at all necessarily I wanted to know the script they used on the phone the up sells the cross cells and when it got to me who had got shipped by the follow up and I would track all that stuff so for that reason alone this guy knows his stuff you should definitely sign up for absolute good absolute calm sign up just to see what they send you how they pitch it anyway yeah I mean any light you don't like you do not have to reinvent the wheel anyway um one thing to be considered considered oh, that is just don't be absolute. So what works for us may not work for you so be willing to open minded try things out let me just run through a few other common want urinary issues so in terms of give me what? When I wanted to re encourage for you with small winds have a friend austin who was hanging out with the new york and he just gets overwhelmed where has this fantasy out here but he's so hard on today so pick one small thing today that's it and make it really small, like every morning I wake up and I say, what is one thing today to make today? Great, and it could literally be having a lot of it could be something as trivial is like, I want to build a high five for people, so get some small winds, fear, failure. This is a huge one for entrepreneurs where you're there very afraid, you know, and what they do is they actually put there think they're afraid. Nissen, a cofounder I need or the designer in this country really good point. I don't have the money, the solution and what happened to ceo it's it's? Fascinating? Because once it fails, it's, not them it's, that other thing. And so the one thing I'd encourage anybody starting a business or, you know, if you're on the chat room, take it on yourself the failure and know that it's gonna happen and the fact that you know it's gonna happen reduces that anxiety or the fear of it. So what I want to do is I want everyone on on their in chat room in the internet world to fail, right? I want to get one feels so here's here's what I was thinking of this morning, I want you to email me it's, how I know it absolute dot com you know me and I'm not gonna respond to you I am not respond to anybody right and if I know uh add up sr dot com okay if you could give me to respond to you I'll give you a hundred dollars cash right yeah no one's gonna do it because you are all going to fail but can anyone get through can anyone actually get through you want me to respond to your email or even you know so you're getting an auto response with fifty absolute products no e think think about what you do so if it's not me or there's a site called rejection therapy what you need to do today is go get rejected and go realize thatyou get rejected I've done it I had a lot of failure it's like specialty I have a good one yeah so they're actually put some of them in the car chef actually there are phone numbers called rejection phone numbers that you can dispense to people like bars you don't want to talk to ever again yeah here's my number and then they call it seems like you've been rejected sorry and so you can you should find one of those online and give it to your friends done it's even try something rejection small that like you have to push your comfort zone it's when your heart beats a little bit faster and you get through it it's like the gym that last rep and you get through and you're like, oh that's where the muscle gross yeah that's where you're able to persevere and have your business start and you're actually be like all right, this business sucks and I need to kill it or I need to move on to something and what I found and we're going to jump to seth in just a minute but for inoculating yourself against that fear of loss failure especially for things outside of your control I always talk about it, but I'll talk about it again is letters from a stoic by seneca just like training yourself I've given hundreds of copies of look away uh seneca shows up a lot in the four star chef actually, but the ability to inoculate yourself against fear by training so for instance like spending for five days not even that much two days a month where you eat the cheapest food where the cheapest clothing don't use transportation then you ask yourself you know all along is this the condition I so feared total and then your fear failure like this it's about confined yeah eso let's all that note uh condition perhaps set this so feared coming up here just getting you look you look fearless so let's let's let's jump into it, come on up and we'll segue way to looking at some companies yeah, thank you so what do we what we tryingto what business we're trying to start today? Uh, well, the business that I'm starting is a biodegradable toothbrush business. How the audience feel about that what's your first impression which your first like feeling? Nothing. Okay, so they didn't do anything. Okay, that's something ok and so what's the problem is that that people on the toothbrush is the electric toothbrush isn't good enough so the problem we're solving is that we want teo give toothbrushes two families in the developing world okay, so we talked about this yesterday little bit so how much is a toothbrush? How much is it to cry? She pissed a toothbrush to bucks the cheapest to a toothbrush like I get him freed the dentist. Okay, then that's it's free what you said is twenty eight cents, right, manufacturers? And then you said yesterday how many people did you want to give two thrushes to one hundred thousand okay, so twentieth since times a hundred thousand it is twenty thousand. So this is what I think it's really interesting in that when you were trying to start your business what's the real problem because your problem is not that you want people to have healthy teeth here, you actually just want to get twenty eight thousand dollars to help people abroad, sure, but this is actually what is it you actually wanna accomplish? Is there a problem here of you? I want to accomplish creating an incredible company that contributes to the world now we're getting somewhere right? And so with the toothbrushes like tell me how many have you sold so far? Because I think I'm even working on it for about how long? About nine months and we've sold zero toothbrushes how much have you spent working on our starting this business? About five thousand dollars? But five thousand dollars and I almost a year? Yeah, how many people in the audience or online can relate to this? I have spent way more in way more time we were money in time yeah, really isaac's like many hands here. So the problem with toothbrushes you what's typically with tooth actually trying to do well, so basically the problem I've been having is have gone through the whole process of, uh, being raising capital and saying, oh, I've got an order this big amount of toothbrushes I've gotta order forty thousand toothbrushes and that's going to cost me twenty grand to start up and creating this kind of dream about what I need to start the company. And so what have you been doing for nine months like what's been going on? Well, actually it was research, design, development and creating the best toothbrush in the world and then I actually partnered with the dentist and got to you know have a deeper knowledge of the problem of aural healthcare and so that's what I've been working on and we're still after nine months and all this and after nine months I still have no toothbrushes okay so just just to add one thing here and then the gear in the hot seat this is a tough place to give you credit for this's jumped right into a thin person like loosen up a little bit of kids love no no no no this is a good thing that I just want to point out the obvious for people at home because like this is not easy it's not easy and these guys are amazing and I just feel like I just want to say I'm really happy to be here going through this way I'm tensed right now you just made a lot of junk so I am going to get up and kick you in the head so please bring your face closer that way do you want just slow down okay fifteen minutes no this's like a thirty second side as one point perfect yeah thank you for doing that yet and that was it was good the key thing is like my only goal is if you're successful right like if you prove me wrong and go make a lot of money and it works that's great but for meet what I would encourage you and anybody watching in the audience is like how do you validate so you're not wasting another nine months exactly and you're not you know insanity is doing that same thing over and over and over so you know, some of the things we talked about is that you know, someone maybe we'll identify some of the issues that have been going on so one of them is just like we're doing all the other stuff playing business instead of actually seeing if people want the product so what can we do right now? That's something we talked about I loved to export you want to sell a biodegradable toothbrushes, right? So who is the customer? So what's the problem is the toothbrush that helps people that's little more environmentally who's the person that wants to buy that well, I believe the customer is someone that really cares about helping other people and that also has kind of, um higher ethics or just wants like to make a purchase that it's sustainable purchase and I thought my customers like eighteen to thirty years old female whole foods shopper like that's how I thought my customer wass ok so it's too broad so you know you can go to facebook ads and then look up like how many people are in this category? The really key thing is that the smaller the audience, the better and my favorite analogy that is that if you had any problem would you want to go toe you know a doctor or a need doctor who would you go to the doctor okay someone said a doctor once I was like really I like go to the doctor s so if you're selling a biodegradable toothbrush I don't see many college kids really giving a shit maybe a few hippies from berkeley where I went to school died but yeah yeah exactly but you know you are my perfect customer is my aunt rhonda maiorana lives in berkeley hills she has tom's toothpaste like they've had organic and and you know for years now before we it's cool to be organic and so what I'm trying to encourage you to say you need to be a specific impossible woman two children lives in san francisco makes sixty to ninety thousand dollars my answer a child mediator and so the more specific is the actually more specifically you communicate with them and more specifically can understand them and sell to them and seeing if they you know to buy your product then the mohr inexpensively contest once you know exactly who you're targeting having people magazine that's expensive exactly reaching that target through finding let's say people who are fans of this this and this page much less expensive exactly so you can find him on facebook you confine them in different ways and we can talk about that but how could so let's do a time limitation that's something that you've been struggling with um how could you validate right now if people want this rotten and I know you did something you know earlier table what can you do right now to see if people actually want this as a business so to basically ask people in the online audience if they believe in my product to buy it what does that mean? So what that means is um my you know, the idea in my head about the business model I want is that for twenty dollars you sign up and you get four toothbrushes and uh we mail one toothbrush your best friend to kind of spread the message about the company so that's five toothbrushes for the for you know, america and then we also donate five toothbrushes to a family in the developing world. So that's the offer okay, so why would I want to spend twenty bucks like what's special about your toothbrush just to get me so and my toothbrush I you know, worked with dentist and did tons of research and really created incredible ergonomics feel this toothbrush? Well, this is not the biodegradable so this was the model that I started with it's actually a hand carved this out of wood to, like find the perfect shape and then you know, with my design team we three d modeled in and created the actual toothbrush sort of I'm not so sure that that it's biodegradable right yeah so you're able to driving you brush your teeth to throw like the main features of the toothbrush is biodegradable and also we found these bristles which are called nano bristles they're really fine they're tapered and I actually feel like you're tossing so I want you to know how does that one feel so I this is maybe not german I think it is german I think she test a few things okay I love how this one feels no no all right so where I'm going with this is I mean you could use something like unbalanced dot com or whatever to do landing pages and test even offers different whatever you could use facebook google ads etcetera yes click through I love this thing maybe your product I can't tell you because you'd have to test it but like maybe it's a forty dollars hand carved to pretend you have your wallet with you right now no I don't but I have your wallet in the building I remember on the bill so this is where instead of waiting to go home waiting to make ads waiting to make even the landing page or wait for anything else like I would buy a beautiful hand carved toothbrush with a replace how much would you be willing to pay thirty fifty bucks would you giving the money today? Sure listen you asked what I don't know we'll take this customer in fifteen percent commission and I love the fact that you know tio he's right here he's saying like boom he wants to buy that um the reason like I'm just my rebuttal to that is that I don't want to create limited edition hand carved fancy toothbrushes for, like, the super league what we know but you could still you know what I would encourage I know I know the guys at tom's shoes, right? I know people who have some other models and you don't have to make it one for one you could make it one for fifty, right? So I think that the point being no, I don't want to I do like jones that makes me fifteen times better one thing just think like one one for one, you have a lot of competition from mindshare you're competing in a lot of people want for fifty, no different story, so anyway, I don't I don't know jump in no, I think that's exact point. So I think the key thing to know people everyone watching is if you're selling something like the biodegradable toothbrush and you're taking nine months to manufacture it and it's all these other things and having did you notice how you're talking about that you let tim yes again, do you ask well let's see the money in second but that's the really interesting you've done all this nine months of work you have in this what happen yesterday he brought me this toothbrush I felt it you wanna give it to the audience to feel as well it's it's beautiful like you feel that toothbrush was like this is really like this like you're actually brushing your teeth because you know then you can kind of feel what it feels like it's like nothing I've ever felt and you could even put limit edition number whatever yeah right you know number one one for fifty and then things that people want that and then you're trying to do the hard won but yes, something that people are responding tio and so I'll jump in and point out that a bunch of people online before no or tim even started saying about anything about the wooden toothbrush there were multiple people who don't like oh my gosh I want one of those I would pay money for that wouldn't too that's amazing think so one you need asked him for the money don't say tim how much would you like to pay that's like one of the worst questions ever right so dylan like sure sure tim okay, so would you buy this no no would you buy it's this you're selling him the product okay? My toothbrush is fifty dollars when you buy yes awesome here thank you. My first let's. Keep it going. Keep it going. So one for fifty. Is there anyone online like let's? So the toothbrush and then you so the point being is not to just go. So a lot of things that you two haven't made or any of that stuff. It's to prove that validation that you want and being honest like you made it. Yeah, please. So, do you have email address? You're comfortable giving up? Sure. Okay. What is it, seth brooklyn, too. At gmail dot com. How do you spell that? S e t h we're plain someone like the town, like the city of new york were clean, too, at gmail dot com number two, right before our guys said okay, seth, brooklyn. Like the city to the number two engine. All right, anybody wants to buy that for let's? Just say fifty bucks looking. You go for them. Yeah. Let's. Go further. What? Your paper. What? Your papal it's. Uh, the same thing. So don't email him, pay pal him fifty dollars, and then and then you figure out how many you could donate. Okay for that fifty dollars, after your property, so papal in fifty dollars, seth brooklyn to a gmail dot com and you need it. Basically, the validation is the hypothesis. If I consult ten toothbrushes, I will make these toothbrushes, I will donate him, and then you can actually start thinking about how do I scale this out? You don't need to worry about any of that other stuff is great. So papal south brooklyn to waken make it like a kickstarter thing just you don't get into trouble if, like, dry testing. And so that was a question it's just you can't do kickstart with stuff in your mouth or stuff, you know, know what I mean by that is let's just say, how much money do you need to actually build a bunch of those or carving? I guess I mean, whether it's labeled labor otherwise, like how many toothbrushes? Fifty dollars or do you need to sell point being? I just wanna get him troll with dr testing takes money and then it takes a long time a ship if he doesn't have the legal protection of kickstarter one hundred, one hundred ok, so if he gets a hundred orders, right, fifty dollars apiece, right? It's going to go into production if he doesn't he's going to turn the money? Sure, that sounds good done what they called, I'm excited it's called mola and that's latin from mueller so is he got his first customer today, hopefully a few other customers online and you got started, and so I think that maybe we should just recap some of the takeaways here in that did you see what tim like tim wanted it? Like, what did you feel that, like, what was soon as I touched it? So and I just want to point out another thing that's really common like this is not you need to, you know, like people will aggressively say no to what their customers want because they have a fixed idea of what they're going to build uh, yeah assumes that test I was just like like, there is a lack of that, like tactile experience most people use their thumbs for, like the space bar and that's it so you get something that's, handmade and wooden and it's just it's a very visceral thing. What do you think you could teach someone else who's in the chat room? That's maybe going through something similar, where they're trying to work in the business, they've spent months in time and it's not happening? What's your scene that and maybe this expense so you just felt with tim are toothbrushes, we'll s o I definitely wanted to mention everybody who's online he's, an entrepreneur and especially a designer entrepreneur is the breakthrough that I had talking with no obvious he's an amazing brilliant guy is that last night we had a short discussion and I really got held back because I just love my design so much that I want to sell this and so it kind of it was I made it to precious and the reality is is if I really wanted to sell biodegradable toothbrushes I can get these for wholesale and alibaba and just sell sell them so if that's the goal it's so it's letting go of your baby and just moving forward with the business and making a profit and to do good like I said he doesn't need I think in a way it's actually better if you're not stuck in a one for one model like make a bunch of money you can do whatever you want the money maybe something that is if you wanted to stick with just the biodegradable toothbrush you know as even a hypothesis if you want to validate literally go to the dentist get free toothbrushes doesn't cost you anything spray paint him or paying with nail polish goto like go to whole foods where you think your customers standby the toothpaste aisle and sell your body to gribble toothbrushes you know seeing you in person which is actually really underrated super under it and because people last questions uh the other way is if you created a mock up paige and take them through all the steps you just don't necessarily collect the money it's gonna work it was a lot of state like one of the things we talked about yesterday was maybe like on your facebook page you have how many friends five hundred like you guys are friends right at least tenor I think the market is good I'm not hitting on I think that's good for like an iphone app yeah but with the toothbrush you could literally put out I'm betting I'm making a custom made by agreeable to fish friends if you shop at whole foods paypal me the money I'm trying this out and just be as honest as possible and say hey if I don't sell ten I'm going to return the money and we're not gonna do it and literally in a day you have your validation versus the nine months and five never ask people if they would buy not seen because your friends it'll be like the mom response they'll be like oh it's such a great idea I totally buy it and then you're like good news I have one here and they're like yeah time's tight got lentils to buy all right so we're going to make I think a transition here you have a hand aren't going to make a transition but we just want to let you know seth you have some additional orders coming in you got just said I've just said forty euros I love the toothbrush greetings from germany first order and first international order your so we're going to move yes way we're gonna move on to round two thank you guys and get those baba's I just have to say something really quick and I say something basically I got to look at the book and I think it should be called the for our life seriously I'm a visual learner and that's what you keep on saying it's so beautiful it's kind of thousand images but it's incredible for learning visit to visual cool so I just wanted to say that thank you thank you. Thanks to jessi thanks. Suggesting the main designer behind it she's amazing cool where we're going to moved to victim number two come on down I'm gonna be friendly or no no no no don't be don't be with this is the good cop bad cop it's working it's working what? Okay how are you cory it's like uh when you're liking approach a girl and you wait thirty minutes before you do it that's how I feel right now because I knew I was coming up he is a sexy man waiting sure today sex agreed so what what are we up to today? What are we talking about? Okay I developed it's an app outsourced the development but come up with the idea and it's ah scary prank cap so with problem solving is people want to prank their friends and iphones a good way to do it okay and then so why did you want to do this business um to retire my mom uh it's based on was basic form what about okay, so we grew up pretty poor um some food thomas with mom tio tio I I sent them the food time with my mom so I was fourteen like my whole family are like, you know, coal miners from nova scotia my mom and dad like education and great seven grade aids so andi I don'thave I've never started a business before and you know, it just had that harry jockey moment where it was like enough is enough I got to do something um because the mom's fifteen a retirement plan so I set out on a twenty four month challenge to do that and I spent ten months doing what I'm good at, which is door to door sales and I'll sell anything I'm not afraid to do the boiler room style and uh what were you selling holes in the ground so like narration in relation with the machine pokes holes in the grass in a coffee I was on your weapon are back in the time and I was like, do you know a court steps are some coffee with our tea with court accepts and coffee with rishi and you have those two things I iearned sixty one thousand and ten months doing that the whole time I was just researching like crazy red like thirty three books including all the ones you recommended like venture deals founder stories twenty two immutable laws of marketing letters from stoic and your books of course. So I started off and, um I've been self documenting the process and uh I reached out to my former boss who is a ten time world kickboxing champion that was going on and on he recommended to books and one was yours that's kind of what got me into it. So how did you pick this is the problem to solve or how did you say looking at business and general um your posts on chapman rhetta I was looking for something that I would enjoy doing waking up every morning but also something that I find fun because I'm a geek in heart. Okay, so we talked a little bit about how did you validate and figure out what to build like which which have to build on what thing to build? I was looking at different categories that I could make for you quickly and also for a low amount of money to start up and entertainment seemed like the proper way to do it but there was so many different aps from like small different companies and quick like a lot of downloads to and so I was looking and trying to find an app that was already in existence already in the top category, so there's a proven market for it and then find a way to innovate in ap and whether I could do it for a low cost and quick. So I saw these scary prank caps in the top category and like, they're really terrible just really, really bad they weren't scary at all. Look, I I tested it on friends, and they're like, dude, like, take your phone back, what do you do? And this is terrible, like, pay me for that loss of life um, in time, so I came up with ways to innovate the app and make it better for the user experience and, like, I don't know what you're me to show you. So you said something yesterday like, how did you figure out what to build, right? Because you said that you rent these, ask what you were talking about the reviews, yes, so I looked at customer review similar to how you did and, uh, pick pointed things that people were having trouble point so they didn't like about the app and it's really crazy how unresponsive some of these out companies are to their customers, like they're getting all their feedback via the app store. And they're saying like changes changes, they just don't do it um which is good for people like me because now I can, you know, make better aps there's a website that's a mock up just so it's looking a user comments in finding out how to do that and that's what's really key thing I wanna highlight is that they're your customers already out there somebody else's customers that you want already out there telling you what they want, you just have to actually go look, it could be an amazon it could be searching facebook searching twitter, looking for the word sucks like when we did mark it and when I looked into marketing looked quicken sucks and then we went and did, marking with all those plugs that were commenting about quicken so you can't really keep takeaway for everyone listening and just just add add to that so I'm not sure how many people out there from the y combinator why see paul graham the funded four hundred plus startups at this point helped nurture and build them? One of the questions they asked when they're interviewing co founders all the time is what are your prospective customers currently cobbling together as makeshift solutions to your problem so people are trying to solve the problem but doing this macgyver taking in this mug I reports, what is it and uh and a kiss we'll see you it was pretty amazing like how long have you been working on this and how much does it cost you so far three and a half weeks and cost thirty five hundred when it's all said and done okay and then how much longer until it's actually out three days just to fix couple bugs and then we submitted to the app store and there's a website that tells you the average review time which is nine days so if it gets approved which I've read all the guidelines I believe it will and there's abs already out there like it's that have been approved um I would say within two weeks twelve to fourteen ideally two weeks so how do you know that people are gonna want this because there's already apse that are similar that people are paying for that have made it to the top fifty and if you making the top fifty in the app store it's really big considering there's seven hundred over seven hundred thousand aps in the app store now so I wanted to just highlight a few examples of one when you're talking to your validation to your business starting your uncertain if it's gonna work for sure so number one look for comparables and maybe incomparable is in a separate sector so what I mean by that is you go to the office for me like you know people like well that one's not a scary you know what it's out there and people are using it and they can always improve it like if you guys remember the first iphone I look like shit the first ipod nor the scroll wheel it was thick it was like forty pounds and then now you know you have these iphones that air you know clean and light um the fact is they got it out and then they can now innovate on sets number one number two look at youtube right so what his you know look at another vertical another comparable industry and seeing if people actually wanting it so on you to feel like at sumo for halloween or we put a youtube video of which is a really funny one and all the senate it scares you is it is similar with the maze there like that images of all the maze you see people like back this thing out of their share yeah yeah I got it oh it's terrible so the app is actually I want I want to show you how would you like now in retrospect how could we validate it right now instead of waiting because right now it's going to take you thirty five hundred dollars that's an extra two months and then two months which is two months for your mom right like how could you have cut that down to today the time limitation concept that was a tough thing for me because aps I mean it's theirs development time there's not there's not really a way with my expertise where I could just make a prototype in a day like that just is like really bare bones and and give it to someone and say like are you scared or something like that but um so maybe let me let me show it can I show you yeah so instead of worried and building an app for doing this if there's a cycle well there's one that's called five twenty or ninety dot com it's actually a seattle based company and they basically help you tell which free wouldn't take the five twenty or ninety and they just drew it up and then they just showed that as an image on their phone they didn't build anything out but so corey's up well to show you um basically commonality could make it up so of course have instead of building on half waiting for the store paying three seven dollars it scares you when you're doing something so what you could do that would be fun is so tim can you added and actually I don't know if I have your phone number so you think you could actually can you just add that I'm sorry that's it is that that I was scared I was scared to do it well I was expecting like something come out of the phone that it came this way so I was just like like the kelly star wake of all you were thinking good I'm good I'm good you know most everyone chat room okay, we're back so the key thing there is that it's not one that was but today was a good day check your temperature s o that's you might you should you accomplished so I think the key thing is that it's okay to do two months it's okay to spend thirty five hundred that's fine, but like that was ten seconds, right? And then we know that it's like so tim do you want I mean, does it wanna scare someone else? Hell, yes, he wants to do that out of something that you could just say I mean, you could do that would that be where you like to do that if you could automate and corey built that hap it's got fourteen days and I've read a lot of stories where it takes longer it's like months or weeks forget the app alive. And so what I want to highlight for the viewers and audiences you talk with you talk with you as well. How do you guarantee that when it comes out it's successful, you know so that you're guaranteed to help be able help your mom and this is what we have to destroy? What do we do now or what can you do in those fourteen, fourteen days to make sure that it's guaranteed, um, collect people's emails that would be interested in purchasing a message, then when it's over. So this is a key thing, we did it mint dot com we've done it up sumo, and I think what courtney's feuding with this phone? So what you told me yesterday, though, is that he's working on his next operating, so instead of putting in any oxygen he's kind of like this would be up to me out there, let's hope it does well, right? Let's put her finger up to the wind, and then, you know, I'm moving on to the next thing instead of really putting an oxygen time, and he has I mean, you've got, like, what, four thousand people on twitter and five thousand on facebook six thousand on twitter and four thousand on facebook. Okay? When when people put out tweets or facebook post it's always depressing how few people actually click a response, right? So how many people do you need to make it a top ten aphids? Actually, and this is the key takeaway. Is that one guarantee your success, too? You need to work back? We're from a specific objective, so many people like I won't have to be popular, what does that mean, that's exactly right? Right so what is popular means so I would go look on stories on you know search google ta paps what does it take a look at those top up see if you can figure out any articles they've shared about what a number for tops then you work backwards all right, well I need fifty thousand downloads that was my goal so it's fifty thousand alright so now instead of working in except how do you plan on getting fifty thousand dollars? Um well my original plan was when there's the nine days of submission process I was going to start releasing marketing material and you want me to tell you what stuff I was gonna do yeah, well I mean should there's other people in line I'd like to know so we were going to release uh actual video similar to the game that was on the computer and there will be a scare in the middle of it and then I would you know, pass it through my channels and hope it goes viral all right, so let's let's fix that has won. Are you guys you guys on the computer? Can you go to google docks? All right? So let's just do it right now so instead of waiting so let's say courtney fifty thousand downloads which is probably one hundred thousand emails that's obviously a little bigger assuming half of the people get the product so instead of you know, waiting all this time hoping those live doing viral I have a lot of people now like I wouldn't viral marketing like they want to it's hard you could go to google forms literally go to google forms and say created form it's literally what your email and a box right? I'm saying they can put it out on the creative life twitter yeah, so incredible I twitter they'll do it but literally go to google docks it's completely free you put on a foreign says what's your email submit your email goes to google spreadsheet free takes you take you longer than a minute you probably should not be running right on and then you literally and we would I mean if we could right after this what's your twitter handle millionaire by number two five at millionaire by two five dot com twitter dot com slash at milliner by two five so there'll be a google form link there and say just give me your email everyone we're launching soon put it on facebook for their on twitter that took you a minute and you're getting it started so the big key thing is with the breakthrough here is momentum are on that so have your objective guarantees success and start that momentum were not like putting it out and then you then you start building anything so how would you determine uh whether it's validated by that so let's say I put it out there and I've haven't spent any money on the appia the idea seems there it's you know and how many would it take to be validated? How many emails what I have to get so you're so there's two separate things the email part oh they have it up on the screen the email collection part is that once you validate that people want it which we've kind of done with tim talk amongst yourselves do you think you know so the key thing here is that there's two separate pieces I don't I don't get those confused one is is, uh validate so we've done it with tim you've seen it on youtube you've seen that other apps out there but they suck so we have enough places were like and you want it that's a key thing I hope you guys can all take away is well if it's something like I want to cure cancer like for one day in my life I want to do talk I want to start a taco stand or without saying I love promoting great products on half sumo right that's what I really want and so you know ideally you want to do validation so you don't waste time and money but once you validated then it's like all right, let me go build it with you minimal has been a long time and money as possible, so I think thirty five hundred dollars for a month of building is is reasonable if you're going on nine months and five thousand plus that that's something to be concerned with the second part of the equation now is how do you guarantee that when you finally finish building that you have the customers in tow your not like, oh, I hope I have them yeah, it's going to be free? I had enough purchases so I could get more downloads that way, ok? I mean, I think the thing for the audience and for you what other things interesting is collecting emails from putting on facebook and twitter. One of things we discussed yesterday is there already videos that tim mentioned that are on youtube, you could go to those people and start building the relationship and say, hey, I'm gonna have a free app that does this to and I'll put your name in the app so that they get some of the credit, which is, you know, ego for them, but you're not doing it so many times people do is they try to like they needed, they don't plant their garden exactly, they're just like, oh, I want to eat now I'm hungry, but did you plan anything? Did you start that relations ship. So start going out exploring that since you validated. Now, let me get the guaranteed success of customers. Okay? Cool stood bunch of push ups. I feel a lot no way we're going to jump into some questions so we can take questions. That's one teo to reiterate something that knows that really important. You can't you have to dig your wells before your dry right? Just teo are more metaphors. But one of the reasons, for instance, that my books I think one of the several or many reasons that I think the last two books have done well is that I would reach out to people six, nine, twelve months before the book ever comes out well and focus on relationships that I would have for years, not transactions, but in any case, conferences in person, the least crowded channel email phone, hard meeting people in person, not it's hard. Uh, but let's, go to some questions on which we go first. First first, we're just loved it. Well, first of all, thank you, cory let's. Repeat what noah said for audience to do. Just so we get that in there one more time with regard to the google form and so that we get corey yeah, so doing it so people also the key thing that I wanted a highlight is that don't build your product than go be like oh I hope people will come to this right it's like having a house party in not sending out any invites right it's like oh please cos no one's gonna cut like I've come home to my place in my apartment there's never a hot girl waiting outside my door never happen so why did you go I have to go out and find how girls so eventually they come knock on the door and so the point being is that with cory with court he's got the product he's waiting around instead of moving to the next thing spend the time to build the audience so the email thing we've literally they just did it right now that's a ten second thing he's already done stuff on twitter and facebook and he has four thousand which was like how did he do it yesterday was mentioning he just shared how he's building it out he was just very candid you guys all have friends on facebook those air the easiest if you can't get them and they're interested in what you're doing if you can't get them you should definitely quit give your old friends and family don't like it so your friends and family you have you know you have putting out stuff free you have collecting emails going through the people on youtube there's a lot of, you know, message boards are a big thing going I love read it there's tons of sub bread, it's like scaring people, I'm sure that's a subreddit category, I'm sure there's blog's and scaring people, I'm sure there's halloween stuff like there's facebook pages about halloween and, like maybe scary movies and a lot of is just building up that audience so that when you finally do launch like tim did an exceptional job this, like I met him a year before his first book came out and he went out, he didn't like hope his book did well, he guaranteed that certain blog's in certain days they're going to cover it, and I knew exactly what my target was in terms of books per week for two consecutive weeks like it was all very methodical, some over backwards. Uh, and the key thing I'm suggesting for the email is, I don't think e mail is best, I think it's, whatever will accomplish your goal? So if your objective is, I need to be in the top ten of fifty thousand being on twitter and facebook, not everyone's going to click when you posting updates, right? So how do you ensure? Like if I could get fifty thousand phone numbers and it's that important to making sure your mom retires? Would you call fifty thousand people one percent so here it's just going tio what is your email and then people are going out in the militarists had submit that's it can I give one? I'll give one tip I haven't actually wanted to share this one instead of what your email if you're putting in collective humans you could always ask which friend you normally get scared by right? So instead of moving down the chain for like give me one for him to refer right which allows the generic question go up the chain if you like who's your previous friend like who is the friend and so you actually find this is going to say the sneeze er yeah right and so you can actually question people into hey your friend jim said I should reach out to you and here's a free app that he would want you to know about now you have two people for the price of one referral it's good cool I like it. Yeah, okay let's go ahead and take some questions before I die I want to go look so all the ones that already there they've been the ones already in this category they've been covered another blog's right uh they've uncovered somewhere probably if you search google for them maybe one is this weird working okay, sure, sarge sure say your competition they already covered somewhere else go start connecting with those writers before you need them okay before you one word so they've been kind of like hey, this app sucked here's this other one and you started not like when you need him but before you need them okay and as you know you have more of a story obviously stores all right, thank you. Yeah, alright questions all right, we have about eight minutes for questions I know christine has what? Christina christina has one here and then we'll take some from the internet so let's uh let's go rapid fire rapid fire let's do it I'll be fast. Um hi no and my name's christina and I have a company called home for the honeymoon and basically we help engaged couples register for the down payment on a house rather than things like toasters and blenders. So the idea is to kind of like revolutionized the traditional wedding registry because people have everything they need, their getting married later and demographics have shifted. My question is how do you decide when your business is validated like it's a bit of a new industry were the first of our kind in canada there's maybe one other example in the state so I like we've had lots of positive feedback we've had some customers but we haven't had that kind of breakthrough so like what's the litmus test, I guess well let's simply have you helped one couple get a down payment? Oh yeah all right. And then how like how long did it take you to do? Um the sale cycle is long because finding a house takes oftentimes six months and then you have six months to kind of help them raise the down payment so it's a year cycle that's all yeah, I know so it's something like so something already know the answer this so the validation is that if that's ready taking you a year and I guess you're not making that much per transaction are are you guys well it's about two thousand per transaction because we make her while basically the realtor that we were for out to pays us a percentage of the commission they earn okay, I'm confused so you guys help people get money for their down payments? Why don't people just send them money directly? Because we shelter them from the uncomfortable conversation of asking for money basically that's our pitch like you don't you don't want to ask your friends and family for cash but this is is the one time in life where you can do it. All right? How many people have you helped? Well, we have about two hundred registrants, but we've had about five, people who've purchased houses through us and how long you been working on it? Um about a year and a half that it's been up and running I would stop yeah, yeah yeah well and so obviously there's more to it you have the thing is you already you're committed to it sometimes so no matter what I say, you're gonna have to go experience it that's a big thing I've realized is that people need to fail or succeed on their own no matter what I tell you what I think is interesting is that if you think the real core issues that people don't have the awkward conversation and there's I don't how many people get marry today in canada a lot yeah, all right get that happens up there, right? Yeah. So if I were you, you could easily I mean, you can go find ten people getting married today and then or people going that are registering right and then going and seeing if you'd help them manually and if you're having a lot of difficulty and that it's kind of going back to what happened with seth is that I have despite agreeable to push and I need funding, manufacturing all the things I kind of got this wooden thing that everyone really wants and so there's probably some anomaly in with what you're doing with wedding us that people are like, you know, I don't really have as much a problem telling him I want money but I might have this other problem, which there isn't a two year cycle or it doesn't take so much work, so come back to original question is validation. Is that when I wouldn't say when? It's simple when it's like, wow, it hasn't, it doesn't mean it's going to be easy or it's not going to some work, but it's that it's easy for you to repeat what you're already doing, and it sounds like that's what you're actually struggling with and it's not about like getting the word out there like just not proper marketing? Um, no, I mean, problem marketing, like marketing to me is like it's like whole foods when you have a product, people want marketing accelerates that you need to make sure it's something that they want to eat like a great taco. Thank you. If you ever want to get a meeting with, uh, tacos and burritos and not get it done, I don't take him out like a fancy restaurant, you know? Yeah, someone sent me a taco delhi gift card is my favorite tacos in the world and that's a great way for me to room you're named todd stratford. I like gary hi, uh, send it even now it actually helps, you know, separate people. All right, so we have a question from a car yuki online who asks most tests need small increments to be to become successful. What mindset do you need to know when to tweak and want to abandon that's a good question he probably knows the answer depends, he probably knows the answer, I'd say, depends what he's doing it's a part of it is like you working on something that you actually want for yourself, it's really hard it makes it easier to keep going with it and keep trying experiment what is it that's gonna make other people want? This is well, like I put on a conference back in the day and I think the key thing that I took away was in this conference one how do I break even that's it right? So as long as I don't want money, okay, cool on to how do we make this a conference that I want to go to? So as long as I'm there and attending it and having everytime I don't really care if anyone else came and then subsequently it you know, I made fifty thousand dollars putting on that event, so I think if you make something you want and you're not spending more than two months, maybe five thousand dollars like that's it appointment ito probably stop and re evaluate what you're doing yeah, I would also just add to that uh that many people make the mistake of thinking they have to test sequentially when you contest in parallel so you don't have to test one landing page wait two weeks then testimony relating paging test ten landing pages at once and they're very used to do that and really ensure that you're not playing business because a lot of people what they do is they maybe read the article on tim site that I was writing and then like why put upon thing on craigslist and I bought ads and well it's like what your actual business right what's your actual thing you're trying to accomplish or you trying to uh teach basketball like ricky's gonna come on today have you tought one person all right have you taught the second but I need scale don't say the s word but it has to be an iphone app why does it have to be an iphone out right? What do you actually solving and making sure that you validated that enough people want it and we'll pay for it for you to then expanded beyond that hey which have a couple more minutes for questions but another one is how do you know what metrics to measure when testing a business idea? So what are the top five metrics or how do you develop what they so that's been a revolution one there's none there are none right? Like I've met the people from whole foods and I ask I said tell me how do you guys do your marketing and your bit in your story? Do you do psychology like are you guys like vegas? You have lights and smells and you put all the things in different places they're like now we just kind of like the story the way we want to shop like what? Like you know like don't you put things on shelves and different things and I think metrics they can trick you right where you can look at a metric it looks good, but and we've done set up somewhere the metric look great, but six months later overall my sister down and we're like what happened? Yeah and so ultimately it's it's really saying right am I making a profit and I enjoying us and to give just a subject like further reading? Eric reese has written about vandy metrics versus like practical metro social recalls that the second set but misleading metrics versus helpful metrics effectively but vent just search of vanity metrics eric reese ras mutual friend lean startup guy so he's written about it that that's your place too I told her the key thing is like velocity to one dollar make sure that people actually give you money for what you're creating and then then you can go explore other things but I would say limited you know one thing I took from zuckerberg facebook is limited to one metric so and have one thing that really trying accomplish yes oh for instance I mean just add one more thing at google many other places too they have like five or seven day active users unique so over that period of time and even at like y c y commoner they're kind of like you know it doesn't matter what you measure but pick one thing so you're trying to improve each week you have a weekly number doesn't really even matter what isthe just some things that you are able to focus not run around like a chicken with its head cut off I would say yes that's a really great point that teammate is that one you have to have like one thing we've struggled up soon was we don't you have to feel progress so do pick up if you're gonna pick a metric like maybe it'sjust revenue don't make it something that's realistic that suits you have a progress that makes you feel like going for in house thing really tiny each day that you can indicate whether you're on it or not I like okay good this is my small one for that as we talked about earlier okay I think we've got time for one more question richard brown's dim from the uk uh says what's the difference between validating and running a pilot I don't know, okay you think you're going you will get one more from that. Um running a sounds like what it does to be a pilot uh patron is saying how do you prevent someone from taking your idea? A survey or testing reveals a lot about it I have thought of that man I'll rip go for anyone first I'm sure we have the same opinion let's just go for it yeah I mean that's a clear that symptom number nine of being a want dinner is that your one in india or you're afraid that's not going to do it? What I've actually realizes that all business is a copy of a business right? So someone saying groupon and like people been selling online for a long time and if you will be telling this story for a long time and what have you already thought of someone smarter already thought of it I would say the biggest thing is go do it and what of the one of the realizations I had is I went to a conference a startup conference and I said were absent we promote tech products for startups like how many people have heard of us and half the room raise their hand was like half the room this is what we do it where's the rest of the people and it was actually a really big epiphany for me that there's a lot of people out there and so don't worry about the other people that already doing it don't worry about your secrets, just get it started and that's the best way that you could be unless you do maybe biotech, which he's not probably not just to add to that also to to reiterate it. So number one is as an entrepreneur, as good chef, as a good athlete, as a good film blank, you need to be very confident in your ability to generate ideas and opportunity, and if you only have one idea, don't start a business, I think you're gonna have to change that. And so if you only have one sort of thing that you need to cling to, you shouldn't start the business. You need to be confident in your ability to improvise and compete, because even if you launch your business, you protect it until you launch as soon as it's successfully going ten people try to copy it and, uh, said that that would be number one and then, um no that's number two is well, don't don't worry about someone else still in your idea if if that it's the case and you probably shouldn't be started anyways, yeah, I don't know what I was gonna say also just in the vc game, when people invest, if you have no competition venture, cobb, let's get really worried it's, like they always assume, like if somebody comes in, has a great idea. They're like, ok, I have other smart teams are working on this right now. Even if they don't know. Why. Should we invest in this team? And you should ask yourself the same question, even if you're not busy.