What are Travel Editors Looking For?
now that we're assuming that all these things that we're talking about you guys already done right? So, like, now that you have all this press and you have any PK and you're gonna be pitching people what our travel editors looking for. So this is a shot randomly that I shot in Mexico of these flying these like holiday does guys that basically called him like the Flying dancers, and they jump off of a pool with ropes tied around their ankles and swing around all the way to the ground. It's pretty crazy has happened upon this. So let's talk about what travel editors are looking for. The do's and don't for pitching to travel magazines. This is gonna be an awesome list. I'm showing you. And first you have to know again which magazine you are going to pitch to because everyone is different. There isn't just one like Golden Guide. I actually am in the bonus materials. I do have a guide of things that I've kind of compiled from different travel publications of what they're looking for, what t...
hey're not looking for, and I think it's in. Seo practices how to write good headlines and There's a lot of comprehensive information in that. But ultimately every magazine has a different set of guidelines. So they should really do your studying and or getting with somebody over there cause usually they'll have a pdf of guidelines that they will send you, and then you've scored because I don't know what they're looking for. But you can't just right to magazine be like I don't know what I'm doing. Send me what do like you could write them and say Hey, I want to make sure that I submit my photos and correctly to you. Do you have a certain portal or something that you use my? Could you send me over the best practice to submit to you? And sometimes we'll send you like a really amazing, comprehensive list of what they're looking for, which helps. So the do's and dont's air pitching the travel magazines. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, too, but meeting the mastheads in the masthead in the beginning of every magazine tells you know who the the CEO and like who the main editors are and all that kind of stuff for like from the top to the bottom Basically, it's telling you the highest editor down to sort of lower editors and honestly, like sometimes the best way to find out who you should be pitching Teoh like you shouldn't be pitching to the top person with the list should be pitching to one of the photo editors. But just give him a old fashioned phone call like call the magazine and say, Hey, I have this amazing story. I'd love to know who to submit it to. Can you give me their email? And so I think, you know, sometimes you take for granted with technology that's just making a phone call on making a personal connection can also get you in. And a lot of times there really nice and helpful, and you don't have to struggle and be like Oh my gosh, from responses a bit too. So asking and calling is a really helpful way. But knowing the important people are on the list are in the masthead of the magazine, so you can go and like, let's say you right to the wrong person. Maybe word it, something like, Oh, I have. I'm submitting us so and so I know that you are the blah, blah, blah editor. But are you the correct editor should be sending this to so maybe letting them know that you know what their position is, but you still just don't know who descended to. And then it doesn't look like you're just kind of flailing, like Please help me. And so there's also terminology. When I started writing, they're all isn't talking to writers and and submitting articles. They would write things back to me like Send me in the head and like, What? What is that what is ahead and or the deck or the lead? So these terms I had a CI de is literally just their term for a header on your article. So your main main title, Your Header, is the head. So a lot of times, if you're talking, you're writing publishers. They will refer to things this way. So it's good to not be like what? Um, the headers so important, and I in my seo guides, they tell you best ways to right headers. That's for most publications. You have to like having a catchy header like something that's gonna make someone to click on it, you know, like the fire things that your boyfriend doesn't tell you or like you don't even like something really catchy like that. That's your header. So the deck is then your subtitle Underneath it. So for me, with my James Bond article, I think my header was annual. I'm just gonna give an example with something like, uh, add some, you know, add some James Bond adventure to your romantic get away, maybe be the main title. And then the underneath header was like create a cocktail of seduction and lovable, you know, like while traveling the world with your loved one. It's sort of like a sub header that explain that a little more detail, but still in a sexy way. What your header is about because the header is usually a quick thing to get you to, like, read more and then the deck is your secondary header that gives a little bit more of a tease, a little bit more information and then the lead is your leading article. Your first paragraph and your very first paragraph is super super important. That's what's gonna hook people to want to read more. It's gonna hook people into like telling you are like wanting to read more and being excited and wanting to click and share it. So honestly, let's be like I'd like to think that everybody reads every word of my articles. Probably not. They probably really beginning part skim through the rest. Look at the pictures and move on. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe people read the whole thing. I'd like to think my writings I could, but the most important thing is your header, your doc, your second line and the lead paragraph. So for me, I study leading paragraphs on people's writing all the time. How does somebody open up in a snazzy that grabs your attention? And I like to study the leads of other people's articles, and then the rest is it sort of gravy? After that, you got hooked up with the other thing that is important to know are the different kinds of articles that they have. So what? I didn't listen. Here, too, is a personal essay. You've got a service piece. There's usually like a how to article like, um, how to make your destination wedding more exciting or how to do this or whatever. So that would be a service piece. How to article an op ed article is an opinion piece, So it's going to be like an opinionated article. I feel like my articles kind of fall into different categories. Sometimes I'll write an opinion piece about what it was. A personal essay would be like That time I lived on a floating grass island and I just wrote an essay about that experience of living there for a few days and a service piece. L then take that and say, Like the best ways to see, you know, the indigenous people of Peru, like so like that, like that could be a service piece. An opinion piece could be something. I write about the statement on the kudos people where I'm like they you know, they're losing their culture, their cultures vanishing, bubble blah. And I write a whole opinion piece about it. That's an op ed, and then around up is when a lot of times people are like rounding up a bunch of other articles and then writing about it. So they're like, kind of aggregating. And they're saying, you know, here all the different ways that you can, like have adventure travel and the little reference. Other articles replaces. They're pulling either pulling from different articles, listing articles, pieces from it and pulling it into one article. So there's a lot of different things, and also in my comprehensive guide that I put there, there's more sub categories underneath that there's like food writing or writing for hotels a lot. So it's kind of important to know, though, went before you go in like, What is your point of view? Is this going to be a how to article? Is this going to be around the piece is gonna be a personal essay. It's important to kind of know which one it is, because sometimes people dip back and forth between the two and you're kind of like I don't know what your point of view is. Let's go back right here. Stop right here for one second, too. So let's say you're not a good writer or you don't enjoy writing and you're like, Oh my God, lawyer. You're talking about writing all day long, and I'm a photographer and I just want to travel. I mentioned my like You're not lost, it's OK. It's awesome. If you could do it all that means you can just, like, literally go by yourself and do it all. But there's nothing wrong with partnering with a writer. So I referenced my friend Matthew Meltzer, who works for the Thrillist, and I met him on that press trip, and he's the one who reaches out to me all the time for articles. He literally gets paid. He has a staff position to write daily articles for the Thrillist. He is like dying for content. He's dying for images and for story ideas. If I built a relationship with them, he's a friend. I've given him photos all the time, but I now there's nothing wrong with building relationship because I could literally say to him, Oh my gosh, it is went on this amazing trip here, the pictures from it. Can you write a piece about this and he will write a piece? Takes him like two hours, is so good at it, and he has to do it, gets Hamza getting paid to write daily for them. So it's nothing for him. He's like, Yeah, I'll do it! Who write a piece and be like illustrated by Laura Great or written by Laura and Matthew melter and do a co article, and that's a really great way to get started to. Is making Alliance with an already existing writer who has a staff job is getting paid to do it That can guarantee you press. And you guys have a symbiotic relationship where you go on a trip and you send them images and he's gonna write about it and all that stuff can guess what? Go in your E P K and guess what? You can now say that you can get regularly published in the Thrillist and you're not even a writer for the Thrillist. But you can now use that as leverage her for press that you can offer to a brand or or board of tourism. So why not like if you're not strong with writing, than align yourself with other writers that are not strong and photography and start getting pressed that way? So I mean, I personally write, I enjoy it, and I'm giving all my tips today and how to write in pitch. But like, let's be honest, it may not be for all of you, and so there are ways that you can do all those things like very a lot of information, and it's overwhelming, but you can. You can still do what you love to do. And Partner is someone that may just love the writing and not like the photo taking. Are there any questions right in the do's and dont's? Sure, so something that you touched on a little bit. I love for you to talk about this a little bit again, Studio Fourth asking. So it's that question that a lot of people have if you if you don't have any connections in the industry. If you don't know anyone yet how who do you direct your pitch to at the tour company or, you know, tourist boards and all of that I think you touched? Yeah, I did touch on the Board of Tourism's. We usually give you people in different tour groups and travel companies to write to. Really, If you write anyone at the border tourism, they'll help you. There's not like the one person that you should reach over there. It's sort of like their job as an entity to help you, but I would just stock publications that you see and see who their regular writers are and maybe and you could see underneath. Like when you look at the photos of their posting, the credit where they're from. And if they're not from that person like Matthew Melter writing it and will say, like credited from the site credit in that, then you know that this person is writing all the time and they're like sourcing images. So maybe find people that in their articles are not their own images and start trying to build a relationship with them about sourcing your images. Um, and then another question came in. When we're talking about writing, how important is it to get quotes from sources and travel writing? Or does it just depend on the style of the article? Totally depends on the style of article. I'm so bad at that. Okay, so I was on this press trip, the one my 1st 1 in the in South Dakota and all of them we'd like, go on a tour and, like, meet this like Navajo Indian guy. Really, whatever. And all of a sudden they felt their things, and they're like writing down everything he says. And like getting interviews I'm like, should I be doing I don't have a notebook, and I really like, and so they're also used to it. But certain people write very, very like how to service pieces that are super fact checked and like everything they do is like straight from the horse's mouth like that will do full interviews and stuff like that. I don't write that way. I read about it in to travel, so I personally haven't needed Teoh quote anyone. But again, the border tourism is awesome. They offer. When were doing all these trips they offer, like setting up interviews for you if you do want to interview someone and quote them and get sources like, they'll do all of that for you. But yeah, I want when I want to let trip. I had no idea. I'm like I was there, your writing, all this stuff down. So let's get in the do's and don't of what travel editors like. So some of this is in the list. This is kind of a sneak peek of some of the things that I have in my guide and the bonus materials, but what they're looking for our conventional stories and having a point of view so say this is the thing that is exciting. This is what's interesting that you want. People want you to tell them like this is it. This is the most important thing. This is what you have to do. Like you can't miss this. Like people want to read that kind of stuff in travel. And they wanted to be different and unique in a different point of view. The dues are to really think outside of the box and try to cover a topic. In a way, it's never been covered before. So I'm always kind of cross marketing and trying to blend my ideas. Like I said, I'm you know, I'm on a trip in Finland and all of a sudden, like who could write about this in this spin or could spin it this way? And so you know, you want to think of things that haven't been done and then take your idea and Google it, because maybe it has been done like you might think you're super creative and you're like, I'm gonna write those amusing piece about the Northern lights fading and then, like 20 other people have written about it. You should kind of Google and make sure that you are being a little more original and try to be like, different than what's already out there. But going back to thinking about the header. The header is so important. I personally think I could even be better at my headers, maybe get someone else to help you with it. But having a catchy line or an intro title to your article, even for your own block post like this isn't just for, like, big travel publications and stuff. This is for your own like website. What you write on Social Media, what you put on Facebook. You know, no one's gonna read your like crazy long Facebook posts unless they have a catchy line at the top. And so you should think this way for whenever you're writing anything on any type of social media or media, be sophisticated and not stuffy. So honestly, nobody wants Teoh. People want to feel like they can connect with you like I'm not going to write like the 10 top places the billionaires love. Like I don't know. No one's really gonna connect the vaccine like the 1% and they're probably not reading my article So I think that you just have to get down on the level of the people that you're reaching out to and just and and if you're speaking in a more conversational tone, it's more readable. So I like to write in the way that I speak, which is very lengthy at times, but it is more approachable and people feel like they're having a conversation with me. And it's not like a textbook where I'm like, and then the indigenous people in 14 92 like it. I don't know, like you can't just put in so many fax and make it fact heavy that people you're gonna like lose people's attention. So you have to find a way to, in a really personal conversational tone, get your point across but yet still have a bunch of fax and cool information in there. So just be sophisticated where you're not, you know you're giving them really great quality information. But just in a really concise sort of catchy way, share the feeling of discovery. I feel like I'm always excited about wherever I go and I write about I'm like, Oh wow, this is amazing, you know? So they want you to be excited every article like nobody wants to read some draft day. And by the way, I don't know about you. But I started researching travel bloggers when I first started getting into this, and there were so many negative travel bloggers out there like nobody wants. It's like reading reviews on Help Me Out, yell or something like our trip advisor people like, Well, that was the worst steak I ever had in my entire life. I'm never going back there and like you would be surprised that so many people will spend an entire travel blood pose inventing about how dirty or horrible places Nobody wants to read that. Like you want to write something where you're like showing them amazement and you're making like, like this. The article are the photo I saw in Finland like that one image made me bring 15 people with Finland and do a crazy trip. You never know, like with your one thing is going to reach someone and make them want to do the impossible or do something outrageous or a major amazing. And so for that, you just want to share this feeling of like discover you want to make people want to travel on. Do you want to make people excited and think it's like this mystical thing that you can still go experience and, like they could do it, too? So you want toe, have that kind of energy in your in your writing or find someone who has an energy and they're writing and allying yourself with. Okay, so do you add something? The conversation that's not available and guidebooks or Google searches? So again, I kind of skipped on that one. But Google search your ideas is make sure they haven't been done. And just make sure that, you know, you're adding a different spin to something, and then again, we're kind of reiterating it. But bring a new perspective or find someone who can. So that is my biggest thing, like, we aren't going back to that conversation I had with my mom when I was 13. Like we're not all really good. It's up. I'm not great at social media. I hire an assistant to help me with it, who is half my age and way better at it. So I honestly feel like I love spending more time and doing what I do. I've learned to really love writing and incorporate that, so I actually enjoy it. But it's not my strongest suit. I guys still need a lot of help with it, and I think that we should just all pay attention to what we're good at and like, get help with the other stuff or like align yourself with people to do those things. It's it's not its shouldn't, I know is a lot of information, but don't let it be so overwhelming. The donuts. For some reason, I felt like doing the spire like a spiral into, like nothing that's like this photo. But this is actually in Peru, and it's one of the aqueducts that they had the ancient like the shamans built in near the Nasca lines in the desert. And they actually go around and feel the energy of the earth with their staff and figure out a spot where the drill for, well, drilling like a spiral and find water. So I thought that was a really cool image, but this is my don't slide, so let's go on. So don't drone on which is my number. One lesson the Eyler and I The first time I submitted a couple articles, they were just really long because I was like, Oh, my God. And I was like, so excited and is writing everything in my brain and was like a stream of consciousness. It just didn't end. And so the way that I got around that when I'm like talking, anybody always say, How many characters you want me to write, like, What's your word count or what are you looking for? And they will usually be very specific, like 800,000. And I just make sure I understand What is 800 feel like? And what does 1000 feel like? All right, something when I'm done, I'm like, Well, that was 3000 words like, Okay, so I kind of started practicing. So I know when I'm writing like when I could feel that I'm around 800 I can feel like, obviously your word document. The bottom tells you how many words you have and how many characters you have, but like it for me, it's more about a feeling when I'm writing and I know going in that. Okay, I've got to get to the point really quick or I have a little bit more time to get to the point. And so it's important to kind of know how that feels like to write different lengths of articles, but don't drone on. They wanted to be snappy, digestible, maybe right, just a couple paragraphs. And and that's what a lot of most people are looking for. So that's good news for all of you that don't like the right people don't like to read. So it's good news, Okay? So don't write the same way that you write for print. Imagine you're writing for your friends who love travel, be personal, funny and conversational. So I did talk about that in the last slide. I find that when I don't know about information like if I don't know about a certain place, I will research that place. That means I'm getting and I usually use, like Wikipedia or something, and then you're getting a bunch of facts about that place, and then you're trying to write about something you don't know, and then all of a sudden I re read my article and I'm like, Well, that was boring. It just looked like it felt like a textbook reading it because because it was it was a bunch of fax from a place that I knew nothing about that I'm trying to write about. And that's a big mistake a lot of people make is trying to write about something you don't know. So I think that you need to write about stuff, you know, and sometimes. And it doesn't. In my case, I'm doing a ton of travel already with my work, but you don't have to travel far and wide. You can write about your own backyard. You can go to places that you can drive Teoh and write about it. You write about your hometown, right about places that you've loved that you have traveled to when it comes from something that you know really well. You can really tell that through your writing. And no one's expecting you to write about a bunch of stuff you don't know thes like my friend Matt Melted like you been talking about with The thrill is he's constantly writing the short like the Top 10 things Bubble Blood. You should try this restaurant in Miami. He's going out and trying all those restaurants in Miami And so it's great cause it gets a lot of free stuff. Like his budget at Thrillist pays for him. He'll like pitching article and they'll pay for him to go experience all these places. Like like I'm gonna talk about the best Beaches in the Bahamas and send him in the Bahamas and write about it. But he's never being asked to write about stuff he doesn't know ever. They will pay for him to go know about it. So you shouldn't be writing about stuff you don't know. Don't write a journal entry other than negative blog's, this was like my least favorite type of travel blogger. I don't know if you've seen them were someone's like and then we landed at the airport and then we went to our hotel. It was awesome. And then we walked down the street and we went to this place, and then we went here and you're like, This is the most boring thing I've ever read, Like there's no story like, I don't want to fall around your day of what you did. I want to know, like why I should go there and a lot of people make that mistake about wanting to write about their travels or showcase their work in a way that's just like, you know, like a journal entry of your day or your trip. And that's not that interesting to anybody else but yourself. Or maybe your mom problem. My mom. So for me, I try to always think about a story that people are actually gonna care about or would be interested in reading. So don't think about yourself when you're writing it. Don't overuse exclamation points. I think somebody wrote that one for me. I actually have to tone down my exclamation points all the time, all right, like for like, maybe 21 you know, like I can't It's hard for me, but I get really excited and I sometimes also like bold and upper case things, and I want to emphasize that word, and I don't know why I do that, but you shouldn't do that. Don't do that. I don't ever turn in an article like that, but I've found myself when I was writing, doing weird things to emphasize, like my excitement and instead of doing that just really used better. Adjectives are like a better way to frame that sentence than putting an exclamation port like mark or like a happy face or something like You just have Teoh illustrate that better. I know we're in a society where we're like a text society tech text where everyone's writing like they do text messages. You'd be shocked at how many people right that way, or and like, submit in weird text broken language. It's kind of crazy. So for me, I think that the exclamation point and just want you like things sophisticated. We're adults and we need the like right, like adults. And finally don't use puns and headings or interest. I don't know. This one is from a specific magazine that I don't outside. It was from Conde Nast, but it depends on the publication. I know some publications that use puns. For instance, by James Bond story that's gonna be featured. Probably destination I Do magazine wants me to be something like like add create a bund during your honeymoon and love of law like you know, it's super hokey, but they do like they sometimes magazines and blog's like to use pun, so it really just depends on your audience. I personally don't try to get like, super cheesy, like my boyfriend goes by WC because his initials or W. C. And I was gonna be, like double 07 you know, But I can't like that. There's just a point you got. It is not Get that hokey. So anyway, the point is trying to not be Super Hook. You make it like, catchy without being super hokey. And so this is pretty much a recap of everything. If you have to remember five things out of all the slides I just told you for travel editors, it would be What is your voice or point of view? Be very clear about it. Use amazing visuals and we all have that that's so much like that's our leg up from all these people that submit that are writers they had, like terrible visuals or their sourcing visuals all over the Internet because they have terrible visual. So we have something more than they dio right, a kick ass headline. Be surprising, unconventional and original, and finally submit your story as if there's no safety net. And what that means is, at least for me, like when I write for having imposed like That's it. I post it's up. I can't change it. I can't do anything to it. Eso if I have typos If I put an incorrect fact, if I a link hotel incorrectly and act like let's say a hotel did all this work and brought me out there and did all this stuff and I linked their website and correctly for the for the press that I like offered to them like That's bad. So you just have to really pretend like no one else is gonna edit this. And sometimes magazine and in places do have editors, and they do do all that stuff for you. But when you're posting a block poster doing stuff, a lot of times you don't have a second chance to post it. So just make sure not rushing and making mistakes and go through it. Have someone else go through it before you're posting it. For the world to see in the final side that I wanted to talk about is my how I get started on my articles. So again, this is just what I've started to do because I did a lot of research and I'm still learning you guys like I'm still learning as I go and I'm hopefully getting better. But I just from researching and reading, I find that I have to be in an environment where I'm inspired. I cannot. I don't know how my friend writes every day for the Thrillist like there's no way I could pump out articles like that. I'm just not. I don't know if I will ever be at that level nor want to be. I like writing when I'm inspired. So it's usually while I'm traveling that I find myself the most inspired and while traveling this so many times that you're just waiting for stuff you're waiting for. Planes or waiting in airports are waiting in cars and on trains. So I used those environments to do a lot of my writing while I'm still in that mentality of traveling because it's really hard to come back to real life and your bills and your rent and your friends and all the stuff, and then still be in that sort of travel mood that you're in where you're disconnected and be in that place to write from. So I I like to write while I'm still in it also for me, like with editing, I don't think about I can edit pictures and, like I don't have to take brainpower for writing. I need to be arrested and comfortable in my coffee and be like, you know, not distracted And just like you have to know yourself, that's for me personally. Everyone's got a different way of being inspired. Maybe you need to go out for a run. Or maybe you need to do some yogurt. I don't know, but whatever you know, you need to do for yourself to kind of clear mind and be inspired. Start there. And then I organized all my information and research. So a lot of times I don't have Internet access on a plane. There is WiFi, but I will research articles all my my notes about the different travel brands in places I'm going Teoh and anything that I will need to possibly reference already have, like on my computer. So I don't have it to access her re reader are help me with my writing and so I organized all of it in like one place where I've got like all the information I need and then from there. This is where it gets hard for me. Like honestly, once you get through the header and the first paragraph, it's like gravy after that. But like I said, the header and the first paragraph for the most important part And a lot of times I don't know where to start. I don't know how to get, you know, like, where do I begin? Especially with my Finland articles. There was so much stuff that happened on that trip dogsledding in the Northern Lights. And And while we were there, I research the science behind the Northern Lights And why I found that most the people out of all the 15 people that I brought in this trip, like two of them, actually knew what caused the northern lights that we flown all the way across the world to see them and spent all this money and done all this stuff. But you know what, actually knew what we're looking at, you know, So I thought, Well, that's kind of an interesting fact. I bet you most people don't know what they are. And maybe I should explain that one of my articles and so I wanted to you know how dental research on the science behind it. And so all of a sudden I had all this information of, like, how to hunt down. There were, had, have a wedding there, the science behind it, and it was overwhelming. And in order begin. So what I usually do is organize my thoughts. Sometimes a good way to get all the information out is to do like a top 10 list. I did the top ways to find the Aurora like or to be a better or a hunter and a lot of it included. And from all of that information, I would include, like do your study, the weather, study the meteorology report like know what region of the world to go to the better to know the time of year. And so within that top 10 I was able to sneak in a lot of information from different genres. That was an easy way to organize it. But I also didn't opinion like a personal essay piece where I divided it in the sub categories, and I called it like the myth. And then I talked about the myth of the Finnish myth of what the war was and I was like this science. And then I talked about the science of what is there were and then I was like, the mission or the and then I was like the hunt. And then I made it all like this. Really? I separated it into, like, little digestible sections that gave you the information, but sort of in a timeline like this is why what we heard about this is what it is. This is why we want to find it. This is where to find it. This is how you hunt for it. And then ah ha! We finally got to it and like and like, it ends that way, and I So I ended up writing an article Kind of like that, but it was hard. I find that if you kind of break it down into sort of chapters like that, it's a lot easier to write and get your thoughts out there. And sometimes you'll think of even more clever ways to present the information and shorter bits. Because if I just stop there and wrote about my trip, like from day one to day nine, I mean, it would have been like 36 pages long. I wouldn't know where to go. So as much as you want to write about everything, just like, really make it digestible chunks and organized like that. And so that was at the end is create many bite sized chapters that readers can I just again, people don't like to read. They want to be inspired. They want you to do all these things for them and give them great visuals. But you want to make the writing and, like, digestible like little paragraphs not too long. And that's gonna be your best bet. So let's go to any questions before we end the segment. We have a couple. So, uh, all right, love, dig in here. Um, so you kind of touched on maybe s CEO a couple of times? Um, somebody is asking. Do magazines favor articles written with good, eh, Theo's Or or f e o, or does it not matter? It it doesn't matter. I mean, obviously, you're gonna go higher up in their ranking as if you dio in my guide, I talk a lot about Seo in the bonus materials. They want to download that and check it out I really dig into, like, all that kind of stuff, But I would save, believe it or not. What we're gonna talk about in the next segment is gonna be a little bit more about social media and being more of an influence. Or there I would say that is a little more important to them than the CEO of your article on Do. A lot of times it depends on the publication. They will put their own tags and meta tags in for having in post I. They have people that do that. But in the some of the other articles have written for, I literally have to write all the meta tags, the searchable tags of the end of the article of how I want to be searched. I'd be like dogs lead in blue Sam. My people and I would just think of anything that came to mind, like the $25,000 pyramid or whatever. You're just looking all these words and your and you're putting it in there. But I don't know, it's it's hard, but every kind of publication has their own Seo practices. Yeah, all right. Thank you. One question here. Yes, Ah, do we submit to the story? Editor are the photo editor? That's a good question. I have submitted to both. It depends. Like I think they the photo editor, Probably first and with the story idea and where you could submit the both and just say Hamza bin to both of you. But I usually do the the photo editor. Yeah, or they're sometimes is the travel editor. It just depends on which publication.