Why do Bridal Portrait Sessions?
I don't want to break down why do bridal portrait sessions? Because especially how zach and I in structured our business, we really like to take the client experience approach where we are really investing a lot in our clients. So, you know, not only are we doing engagement sessions, but we're taking them out for dinner afterwards, and we have a lot of connection points with them throughout the whole process. It's like, man one more shoot to do one more batch of images to edit like this is a really this is a lot. So why should I even think about doing this to my business? So we kind of want to hit those things. So number one is this going to add to the overall client experience the one of the huge benefits we believe somebody mentioned that they did one bridal shoot? Who was that? You guys? You did one rodel shooting who came along to the shoot. Mom came so what's awesome about this. And this is always a tricky scenario when you're photographing weddings. And jodi and I you know, when ...
you if you check out our big mp three on sales that were giving wait, everybody we talk a lot about how we build that relationship with the client we build trust over time when people feel that they trust your brand and they trust in your service that coincides with how much they're willing to invest back into you as far as what they're willing to spend on the average client, according to julie was spent three to four times what they initially believed those they'll spend that's great for you but it's also great for them because they get to take home a lot of those things that we really believe they should be taking home the canvases and the albums and all that stuff. So all that to say usually and many weddings, the key players that are the ones going to spend money at the wedding is mom and dad and those kind of people. So this is an opportunity for mom and we actually invite mom to come out to the shoot if that's the kind of relationship she has with their daughter and they come out together and they build this relationship together, they get to do something really on ly that mom gets to be a part of hope probably once in her entire life and she gets to see you being a part of making that come true, so you're building trust with not just the bribe but with mom at the same time and that is a huge advantage for you to have a month before the wedding or two months whenever that we end up scheduling this session because then mom knows who you are and she trusted her you are an often times you know you've met with the bride and groom and you've built this great relationship with them and then you see them at the wedding and it's still like uh but the mom and dad like you don't see them often times until the wedding day and have you found like you meet them at first and it's kind of a little, you know? They're like, oh my gosh, I just cut you a check for a lot of money and I don't know if I like you or trust you and at the end of like, oh, and what's great about this as it gives mama chance toe hang out with you and then she just falls more in love with you guys is well, and then you know, she starts talking about you do all you know of her adult friends and then at the wedding it's just even more and the roots and the reality is is that we're in the people business. This is a people business type of business and we're all about relationships our number one goal in our wedding business is to build great relationships to win people, to make people fall in love with us toe figure out, how can we enhance their lives and help them in any way that we can? And the more that we do that the more we just naturally see a natural progression of them wanting to invest back into us back into our business and everybody wins, they get amazing memories, they get the canvases in the album's sitting on their coffee table for years to come, and we get to enhance our business as well. Another great reason why we love to do it is because it's a great booking incentives, so maybe they're not paying for this session, but you're getting on the phone with them. You're meeting with them and they're right on the fence and they're really excited about june, you say, you know what? I really like you. I think you are really great fit for me, and if you book me within twenty four hours, I would love to gift you this bridal session and so then it's an additional booking incentive where you're just adding value to what you do instead of taking away value. Ok, well, if you book me within twenty four hours, I'll cut off five hundred bucks of my pricing like you don't want to decrease your value on increased, so this is a great little tool. You can use toe add value without taking away your value so some people wait a minute I give away a session how am I going to increase my income? Is that what this whole thing is about just waits there's many ways to do that aside from that we don't always necessarily give away a session like this but for those couple of clients that if you've done a good job sort of pre screening your clients and making sure the right people are coming through the door and qualifying your client's really well hopefully we won't need to do that they'll be really excited and ready to book whatever package that you're offering but for those couple of clients that are right on the fence there teeter tottering we like toe have always something in our back pocket maybe it's an engagement session sometimes it could be something like this because it's an hour of our time a little bit of editing and then we can get them to book us and this can create huge value down the road with the wedding and also with sales that we can do with this session all right, so the next one is it's a differentiator for your business it's something different not everybody's offering this we've actually spoken to so many photographers that don't do ah prewett and get the bride and her dress make up and not trash it and destroyed the dress afterwards but do it beforehand in the way that we're going to talk about it today so any time you're running a business, we want to try to occupy a territory of her own and be known for something that's unique to us, and this can be a differentiator, even the style that you shoot this, and even if other people are doing, it could be a differentiator for your business and differentiators air really, really strategic and appoints. If so, if you're taking notes, those of you at home and those of you here in the studio audience differentiating your products is critical. We're gonna talk about that later with, you know, physical products, but think about it, you know, if you're, you know, ordering apple books or whatever those books that apple used to make I can't remember you know, those air cold, I forget it, but if everybody now orders those off of a website that cost twenty bucks and you're offering those as your album, clients are gonna have a hard time seeing the value, even though you spent time creating it in making those photos. So we want a product that they don't know that they're not necessarily super familiar with. Which helps to increase the perceived value of that product and that's what a differentiator we're focused on of these bridal sessions it's not that we're offering a product that's different which we'll get to that, but we're offering a service that not a lot of other photographers are offering in your area and what's great is when you get on the phone with a bride or when you're meeting with the bride and you're talking with them, chances are, you know, there's there's two different ways of selling stuff view fulfill a need or you create a need and so when you're talking with clients and all of a sudden you tell them about this bridal session or like, oh man, I think this is something that I want we're going into the wedding they had even thought about it and so now when they go ahead and they start meeting with other photographers, we'll do you offer bridal sessions and so that's one thing we like man zach and jodi offer him I think this is something that I really want so it's a great way to differentiate yourself obsolete this one I'm get really excited about which is weaken, schedule, flexibility and shoot when there is the best lightning best variety and the best locations to shoot and who shows up at the wedding you've got your six point two minutes to photograph the bride she wants this amazing portrait with the most beautiful light with this perfect poser hairs in the perfect place you know it's been twenty hours and photoshopped fixing her hair yet she's gone a half hour over getting ready but she's over her time she's scattered she's thinking about a million different things and you're trying to shoot this perfect portrait of the bride and for us you know the wedding is really about isn't the candid moments and the portrait's for us that's what the wedding is really about from jodi and I the most two important photos portrait that we're gonna take a ones of the brining room and one of the bride we want the bride to feel like she looks amazing she's beautiful we want to find the most beautiful parts of her and bring that out in this photo shoot and sometimes in that six point two minutes at the actual letting that could be a difficult thing to do as many of us have found and the light could be very harsh it's just you just have to work around the timeline on the wedding day so it's so even though we try to control the timeline of the wedding name, we talk a lot about that sometimes you're walking out in the middle of an open field with no cover and it's high noon and the bride's like take a picture of me and you're like uh how am I going to make us look awesome? You know? So this is great because we can find out you know, the best time the best you know, we're checking the sunset counter looking at locations and beautiful places to shoot something that's going to be an incredible memory for her and of course we'll talk about this more about her mother toe hang on her wall to remember her daughter in this moment and we wanted to be beautiful we wanted to be great, we don't want it to be this rushed feeling photo, we wanted to be something really another great thing about, you know, being able to do this bridal session is you can get varieties, so not only can you plan for, like, the best time of light, but we plan it, you know, a couple hours before sunset, so not only do we get that high and knew no, not hainan, but that beautiful golden light we could get those really blue skies, but then is the sun setting we're able to do more dramatic lighting, which is this image that you see on the screen here we were we and create a great variety yeah, so this is the same bride that was just on the screen, a different portrait the first one was done in her home and we'll talk more about this shoot the first one was done in inside her house in front of something that was important to the family she loved. They loved their home and this image right right here was done in the late afternoon. It wasn't as dark as it looks, but we had the time to do something really creative and it's something really different an edge and we're going to show you more images some light, every happy ones and then some more edgy, you know, interesting session. Yeah, from the exact same session. All right, so next step is wait sorry more connection points. So this is an opportunity to create like we mentioned earlier, mohr connection points with your client. We talked about this a lot, but more opportunity have to interact with our clients through sending them a little gift in the mail or a little note or having a coffee with them after an engagement shoot in this case, spending some time photographing the broad, getting a comfortable in front of us and all very low key chill environment that's not the wedding day where it's rushed and crazy hassled is an awesome opportunity for us to be build mohr value with our client and really that's what it's about rember trust and value and we're building that trust, so when we walk in on the wedding day she's just like these guys were so good, I felt so amazing the photos they took me before were so great engage in session was so awesome, I just trust them fully, and I feel like I can what every bride wants to do on our wedding day, relax and just have a great time, and then we can snap a few photos of her that day and there isn't a high stress value. We're going to get some beautiful portrait's that day, but we know we've already captured some amazing stuff. Another great reason that we love doing bridal sessions is that it gives us a chance to familiarise ourselves with their not only their wedding dress, but their best angles as well. How many times have you been on a shoot with a couple? And then, you know, you're so focused on interacting with them, getting all these fresh moments from them, and then the technicalities of making sure everything looks great and then you get home, you're like, oh my gosh, I noticed that she has a slightly smaller ire when I shooter this way, she looks a little bit bigger and you're like, uh what's so great about these bridal sessions is you get a chance to kind of figure out all those little kings and of course, if they're if they're dresses like really big or you're shooting them in their dress and like me and when I shoot them in the dress that way that kind of makes him look bigger than what they should look and so it's really great because it gives us that opportunity to fix that for the weddings and now, you know, going into the wedding, ok, I know how to position her. Well, I know howto work with the stress that she has and it's our job as photographers to make our clients look their best. And so by having this trial run with them, that gives us a chance to get even more familiar with them, but also to make sure that we're photographing them with the best type of lighting and the best type of camera lenses and angles and all those sorts of things, every single bride is different and who on ly photographs supermodel, amazing brides all the time with perfect skin and you can put him in any lighting shooting with your iphone and they just perfect all the time no hands seem to be going up for some reason, right? It's just really not that true, and some people ask us what they go it seems like so many of your brides are really pretty, and I'm like, yes, don't get me wrong, they're all beautiful, you're right, I think their own special, yeah, they all our way don't for the most part, we should just normal people don't want to say average because they're not average, they're amazing and they look the best they've ever gonna looked, but they're just normal everyday bryant's. But we figure out how to best bring out the best features that are in there, right? We don't want to photograph the stuff that's not gonna look the most amazing we want to photograph the parts of them that look the most amazing. So this is an op, awesome opportunity for us to go. Does this bride need to be short lived most of the time that she have around her features? And I need to minimize that a little bit? Does she have something that she's not very excited about? We ask some of those questions. Are there certain features you're concerned about? And we make sure you have a better side, that you better side and you even see, you know, when we talk about this live for this shoot that we did yesterday. We were asking our bride the same thing is they're aside you prefer to sometimes even though both sides probably look awesome and we photographed the side that's not her best side but it looks awesome we light it really well she'll she may feel more self conscious about it because she knows herself and she goes I know this side is better for whatever reason in her head that she knows that so we want to make sure we understand those things before we photographed I mean even like little things like jodi mention one I sometimes in some people's a little bit smaller than the other and on a wedding day when you're running one hundred miles a minute you may not remember to think of that can you imagine going into photo shop for every single shot of the bride and trying to increase the size of one eye because that she's very concerned about that look that could happen and there goes all of your you know momentum you haven't building up you know working on your editing speed and all that stuff because we didn't just turn her face slightly one way so this smaller I was closer to the lens simple problems all let's break down this image that you're currently sing and this is of our bride taylor and beautiful and she was really easy to shoot but with taylor she had a little bit more around features especially on earth face and so the last thing we want to do is position her or light her in such a way that makes her face look more round and so what we're doing here is when we're lighting her were actually short lighting her and what this means is the shorter side of the face and even the body that you see that's where we're putting the light and what that does is that how it's just a small part of them and then the rest just falls into the shadows. Now if we had moved our light on this side and showed the broader side of let the broader side of her binding interface, it would have made her look even more around than what she is. And so by short lighting or like this she looks absolutely beautiful that's the great thing about short light we use it quite a bit it's kind of the go to lighting if you're shooting anybody that's just sort of average feature they don't have very long or pointed face is there not a supermodel which most of your client's probably aren't were tending to go for more contrast and more flattering angles with this kind of photography and of course you can take it very dramatic like this where we just have one light source and the ambulance is very, very dark and we just have that little bit of light kicking in the background we can make it more more subtle than that, so this next photo is the same thing we're photographing her in her home because there her mom, this is after mom's house. Of course she wants photos that are going to be memorable. My daughter played in this house and she watched tv here and she stood in front of this window when she was a little girl. Why not take some porch it's over there? It's always tricky as natural light photographers. If we're a natural I photographer, when we walk into a situation like this image where if the light wasn't on her, she would be the same color as the shadow size in the middle of the living, no indian land, there was a couch just to the in the foreground, right underneath that you didn't see because we cropped it out. This is the only little area of this cool looking background that we have a photograph here. When we walked into this area and we had this beautiful piano with these beautiful angles and we went, how can we photograph this and make her look amazing? Sometimes in a bride sits down, she can feel a little bigger right here, and sometimes it doesn't look the most amazing when she's sitting down depending on the angle it was leaning back, they tend to slouch like this, isn't it? There's a number of things that we do in an image like this to make sure it looks really great, one of which is and you'll see it in the video too, and we'll do this later today when we shoot is that any time a bride sits down for the most part not always we tend to tell her sit so you feel like you're just about to fall off your seat and what happens is they do this by sit back you know, I kind of look like they'll do this they make me look pretty, you know that no lighting is going to make this look awesome, right? But instead we have our sit like this and then we do the traditional what they call the s curve over the turn twist tilt we want as many angles going on as you can see we have a leg coming out this way we have her body kicking back and then her face curving again so she has that beautiful s curve in her body. Then there was some window light in this shot but we enhanced it with flash so we got the light right in the beautiful place a lot of light was hitting her down here we needed a kiss of light appears we added a small soft box often camera left in this shot and short letters are faces turned away from the camera, so this is a short side of her face and would lighting that side to emphasize this part and to put into more shadow this side, and she looks beautiful. She just looks stunning in that photo. Another great trick that we do is whenever we have brides, you know, they're sitting at an angle often times or so many strapless wedding dresses out there, and you get a lot of this action. So what I'm always telling our brides is, go ahead and pull your shoulder back, and as soon as they do that, that stretches this out, and that helps with that area and also what you can do is you, khun, strategically place the veil kind of or her hair over this, and then you don't even have to worry about if this isn't even enough, you can kind of conceal it and hide it. Absolutely. How many times have you got home and went? I think I need to go on photo shop, don't they wear these dresses that are just really constricting right here? And it just grew popular, they look cute, you know, when they're moving around in a still photo, if they do this, sometimes it doesn't look awesome, then we're spending another four hours and photoshopped trying to fix this stuff, and we want to avoid photoshopped like the plug I always say this we're not talking about editing and any man today, but I always say using photoshopped to edit your photos is like putting an atom bomb on an ant hill. It does so much, and you don't need most of what it does, so we want to try to simplify that process and shoot it in the camera as much as possible that on the wedding day, you're going to remember these little important details of the bride and make sure that when you're posing with the groom that those things aren't happening and you're lighting her in the right way and you're editing process is going to fly and that's what we want for all of you. Another reason we loved ing bridal sessions as we kind of hit on this earlier, relieves the wedding date pressure there is, you know you've got the shot, you have some beautiful shots of the bride that you've done the bridal session and so the wedding day if your time gets cut a little bit short that's ok, there's, no stress even so, a time to grab a few, but the majority of all of your amazing shots of the bride have been covered already. And then what's great too is you have time to do more setups and scenarios and that's what we love we love being ableto take our time at the bridal session and look around me like oh I should shoot here we should shoot there and you get a lot of great variety and we love being able just to relax so when we were shooting this session we live in nashville it doesn't snow very often a national it's usually if it does it's overnight and it melts in the morning but we're out here we're shooting taylor and all the senate starts to snow and it becomes this unique fun experience we run outside and we start photographing some very beautiful more natural touch you reflect it was very cold that brought right had this beautiful little shawl that she had and I don't even think that was a part of her dress but she her mom had her some busted out we get this beautiful snow falling snowflakes and kind of landing on a black shawl and it just was really unique and different and they had this beautiful little pool in a little garden in the back and we pulled back and shots and amazing very organic natural photos of the bride and they love these images because they were just different on a wedding day in there six point two minutes that we have we don't always have the time to shoot great variety so this was an awesome opportunity go let's, do some indoors let's do some little extra stuff let's add this let's add that and we were able to do a lot of really cool stuff okay, having along the next thing is it allows for more creativity we love just being able to be relaxed and kind of legs back and just said it allows us to really just relax and let us be more creative, you know, again, I think a certain kind of, like, part of your brain picks and were you shooting weddings? Could it because it was just high pressure adrenaline and you're just going and you often forget stuff and this is real isn't haven't had water in eight hours, you know, I know we have and use the restroom all day, and you're just so focused that you're like, oh, man, it would be cool if I had just done this if I had just done this and what's great about the bridal sessions is you can relax and use and the extra created have you ever been on a shoot? You're photographing ties, you know, high pressure, high speed you get back or even at the time you go, man, if I could just do this if I just had the time to do this this this image of you so much better and then we try to sort of tweak it imposed to make it more interesting because it's really not what we envisioned how many times does that happen to you? It's like what I envision just didn't happen because I needed just a few more minutes to make it happen somehow when we're going to shoot the great thing about these sessions as we have an opportunity to slow the pace down to think a little more even when we show up we're telling the bride this a super low key this is chill or not rushed we have time to hang out there may be a few minutes in between what we're setting up the next shot just have a coffee or relax or chat with your mom have fun this is about just having fun together when we were shooting taylor we walked out of the back and they have this cool sort of um walkway and actually behind her isn't family emblem believe it or not, they have a moon because they left me to have to have this happen and it's like a family symbol behind them. So we walked back and I the lighting back there was terrible right? The lighting was awful so I busted out the strobe and I fired off a shot and what I toned it down and made the background which I couldn't get out of the shot subtle enough so it wasn't distracting it just became very dark in contrast, and I couldn't see the backgrounds I'm like, hey, we're on a bridal shoot, I've got time grab my little five eighty x, put an orange tungsten gel on it and then photographed that so now we've got the light shooting through the moon symbol coming onto the bride it's way more interesting and guess which invention they ended up buying a giant canvas of that one right there because it had meaning it was at their home it's a beautiful shot of her she's got a great expression, it's full length moms tend to love the full length ones for somebody because they want to see the whole dress and it's got, you know, light is coming through the moon symbol behind them, and they loved it, so they ended up buying this, hanging it on their wall on mom's wall, and this is again, this is why this becomes a great opportunity to make extra income as well. Ok, so moving along what we love about bridal sessions is it really gives us a chance, an opportunity to partner with other vendors. This is a great time where on we're going toe this's a really great time where we can connect with the fur florist and maybe they don't have a florist at which oftentimes by them that they do but you can use this opportunity to build the relationships with the vendors the bridal shop reach out to the bridal shop and say hand but shoot your bride I can't wait to give you images and it's building that connection with other vendors you can utilize it if you're a new photographer somebody said they were pretty new, right? A couple of the guys so if you're new photographer and you're going, I need cool photos I need to build relationships that's the that's what you really need in your business artist awesome photos, great portfolio and you need to build relationships if you book a client offer them this session as a gift they had love gift you this session I want to bring in some other vendors I want to bring out some differ people and create a style I session around that, so get a cake vendor and do cem take shots or get a you know, a party vendor that sets up the chairs of the linens of the tate centerpieces and stick that out in a field and do a bridal should incorporate some of that stuff photographs and details of those things while you're there send them off to the different vendors so they can use in this promo piece material and then you know, everybody is going to be sharing this together so it's going to not just enhance what's going on socially and virally with your business but it's going to be enhanced to all those other businesses two or three or four the businesses that you can bring together and go hey, I want to put this amazing shoot together and give you guys free promotional material. What vendor is going to say no to that? They all say that what you want to do, what for me you want to shoot photos for me and then offer them for me to use for promotional material, brand new stuff of some new cake I creators and whatever this is an awesome opportunity to build, and then more than than that is you get a chance to just build that relationship them spend face to face time with them setting and up over email, maybe they show up, you know, thirty minutes early, you get a chance to chat with them and show them why you're valuable wire of value for talk valuable photographer in the industry in the area that you're in, okay, they're great bonuses, it gives you another block post sometimes like I go to sit on the block and I'm like, what kind of blowing around today? And this gives us get another time that we get to block? Of course we're not blogging about it before the wedding, she wants to keep her wedding dress private but after the wedding and gives us another chance to then showcase her bridal session and if you're not doing blog's that's totally cool gives you another facebook post or another series of facebook post like here's my favorite from you know, the edgy set up here is my favorite from the snowy shots here's my favorites you know it gets you more opportunity get your images shared great thing about facebook to, you know, mention this many times average person on facebook has two hundred friends and that goes six layers deep, so that means by posting one post you have the chance to reach twelve hundred people that could be interested in a product or service and that's a direct marketing right into the people that you know are related to whoever you're photographing so that's an awesome opportunity to put up multiple post give you a reason, a reason uh to talk about you can give her a way to talk about you and this is a great way to do that by sharing those photos we don't keep him back to ourselves, we'll share one or two beforehand we'll talk about this in the sale session, but then make sure you're sharing a lot of those pictures and giving your bride an opportunity to talk about you and the final reason why we love doing bridal sessions is like this whole title of this course is is it gives you an extra chance to make an additional income in at the end so kind of how the layouts going to go today? I don't know if we even mention it is we're going tio talk about bridal sessions and then we're going to move into the gear that we use we're going to do a live shoot, and then the last segment that we're going to cover is the sales sessions and how we facilitate the sails with the bridal sessions s o making an extra income is something that we're going to cover, but this is really great because not only can you sell to them additional products, but it also makes their wedding album bigger because you've done this bridal session, you have all of these really great different setups and scenarios that you've done of your bride and so of course they want that included in their albums. So then it adds quite a few extra more pages onto your album and how we do our album sales is it's a charge you know, for additional page? Yes, it's a great opportunity to build a bigger album to showcase something that they may want to buy at the end of the wedding, but then also, you know what we're going to talk about tonight doing a sales session of just this session, so even if you gave it away for free or as a gift, we don't like to use the word free gift for your wedding from us to you that's a much better way to give something away to a client we can sell them you know all kinds of things that go along with it, which we'll talk about tonight exactly how we facilitate that now how do we pitch the sue the bride's? What is the case that we make of why this is something that they need before we get into that? Are there any questions that we want to hit so far? You should we keep going? Not one question I think I have one question, but I have a feeling you might be answering coming up I was still going to shout it out our olson photo is wondering about you know, of course we're interested in doing a bridal portrait's to increase their income but how upfront are you about that fact with the bride? So it's a free bridal session but they still are going to be spending more money. So how upfront are you with that great great questions? So there's a couple of ways to approach it one is we're going to talk about right now actually the benefits bride so we would typically sell the session itself so to go out and shoot they're going to pay a fee for our time to go out and photograph this session and we're going to sell them on the benefits of that hope that thirty to sixty percent of our clients are going to buy into this idea so once you know so that's first and foremost we want to hopefully make money doing the session itself but and hopefully this answers his specific question or her I'm not sure music I go I'm sorry um if your client is teeter tottering on booking you for their wedding, then this is a good thing to bring out as a gift as an incentive visor to push them over the edge that's going to be a very select few clients hopefully most clients will need that, but we always want to have an incentive visor to push people over the edge so we're going to make those two things clear most of the time eighty or ninety percent of time we want to sell the session and then sell products after the session and I'm just gonna go ahead and address that point right now anyway because we're talking about it's our last point on this slide but the reason the point of this session yeah there's all these great benefits and that's what we're going to talk about how we sell the benefits of the bride of what you want to do it but the whole point of doing this bridal session before the wedding so you have something on display at the wedding big canvas a big mountain print whatever you want to sell on display at the wedding for people to see and that's how it's done in the south and if you just kind of educate them and this is why you do it it's so when everyone comes in like right next to the guest book or whatever you have this elegant portrait of you you know looking your best in your bridal dresses like that's what I want so obviously that's not true free so you set the expectation of you get when you do this bridal session you're going you need to buy something that you can put on display now when we talk about those things right then and there these are the things I couldn't go with it if you decide to purchase it that you can come and purchase and afterwards okay so here's some of the benefits that we can go quick question from the studio audience grabber mike roselli no my wife is good with I was just wondering when he started doing bridal portrait's and what gave you the idea and if you ever do groom portrait's who that is in question question so bright apart your thought into the first part go ahead I'll answer the second part bridal quarters have always it's just something done in the south I don't know where that came from but we would have people asking us you do bridal portrait somewhere like yes, it is question you want to buy a private session? Sure it's a very southern traditional thing tohave you go into a lot of you know traditional southern homes in the south and you'll see we did one wedding where it was like we were a new photographer this wedding the one went into their house they had a massive print of daughter one on docket huge like like almost life size one of daughter one one of daughter too and then a slot waiting for daughter three so it's like I want a photo and I wanted a full length I want it's sort of like that and I want it hanging right there it was like we can do that and we can sell it to you no problem, but that's what they really want it and I think even for us as I'm thinking about it you know, hopefully our next is a daughter and I'm thinking when my daughter is in her twenties or whenever she gets married I want an amazing photo of her looking her best hanging on my wall remembering that time together were angry I don't want the exact same thing you look at how beautiful my daughter is looking amazing, she looks and she looks just like your mother and me you know I mean that's I think part of it for mom as she wants to display how beautiful her daughter is ok groom photos so that's a good question that is not something maybe you should be teaching the next creative lives you know, talking about shooting amazing sam one thing I noticed with the difference between the bride and the groom is and this is going to ring true for most people are not what we talked about it obviously is that even brides that are not I'm not excited about getting photos of myself for even hanging up photos myself they still want him they want photos of themselves they do deep down somewhere they want them even if it's not coming out on the surface and I would say maybe twenty or twenty five percent of roger like yes take a photo of me I can't wait to get from your camera you know it's it's more rare guys on the other hand, it's very very rare that guy's really want awesome photo that the bride wants him I'm telling it like I'm always telling me who I'm like this is for her she's going to be so stoked to have these awesome photos of your chiseled chin and I'm gonna make you look awesome or you're cool hair whatever that his feature is and he's like cool let's do it you know let's grit, greatness teeth and get through the photo shoot of him on when he sees it and loves it any season but it's it's to me, it's, zip more difficult to convince, so you'd have to come up some really good benefits. Probably sell it on the bride right to be because she's the one going. Yes, I want a sexy photo shoot in my man to be looking all dapper, whatever. So it's a good conversation happened. I think it could be offered, you know, definitely could be something you offer.