My First Second Shooting Experience
we are gonna move into second shooting. Now, if you guys are kind of following along or if you're taking notes at home, bring out those highlighters and color pens. That is how I roll. Everybody in college had their laptops. I had, like, a spiral bound notebook with, like, my purple pens, red pens, blue pens. Aaron has her multiple pens. That's why Ryan, Erin C s so funny. Okay, I'm gonna know when Aaron writes about me An orange. I said something. Good. Okay, Okay. Second shooting a lot of Okay. So what we're starting off with is you're gonna see it as a progression. This is my story broken down from start to finish. And this is literally how it's been happening. I'm not going to start talking about destination weddings because you guys don't even know how it really started. So chronological. The best way to articulate the story. So now we're gonna get into second shooting. A lot of times, people ask. Well, how did you get so many second shooting opportunities? This goes hand in hand ...
with what we were just talking about. We're talking about forums and basically what you should be doing consistently and every capacity is to create trust because we just had this question asked. And the question then became. How do you befriend people who are your competition? Well, one. Don't call people your competition and to called them your allies and then with allies what must use you. You must create trust because trust is the currency on the Web. This applies both to your peers and applies both to your clients because people don't know you are. How many times have we heard again and again of a photographer who takes the client's money and bolts? So many people aren't sure I have clients sending me a considerable amount of money, and a lot of them are sending me based on what? Half my clients book me online site insane, and then they send me a large deposit or a retainer fee. Why they trusted me. How do people trust you by putting yourself out in a very susceptible, raw and personal way on the Web? Now, when you create trust, the best way to do it is by offering feedback to start conversations and to offer constructive criticism when it is asked. So this is all etiquette that I learned on a forum. Now, like I said, I started a knowest p and I started reading all of these backed back of posts of photos and people how people were shooting manually an aperture and shutter speed, and I so And in addition to that, they were also where they want on vacation. What picture? Got an award? All these other things. And I felt like I had made all these great friends. And I was like, Oh, my God, she just had a baby. Oh, my God. And guess what? Nobody knew me. I wasn't talking. So I was so invested in these other people that I all of a sudden became so scared to become part of the conversation because I knew about their stuff. I knew about conversations from two years ago. You know? God, girl, you look great. Baby weight is gone. I felt like I had been there with her, and she don't know the last thing about me creating trust only happens when you put yourself out a person in a personal capacity. If you are on these forums than in Egypt, one put a picture to your profile to talk. You cannot possibly be a taker. That is what you call in the biz world and inequitable relationship, right? This is like a marriage. I feel like any time that it engaged with a client with appear in a business relationship with my spouse, it has to be equal. Ah, 100%. However, I will say that I'm hearing to a great man and it's like a up in our hood. But it is all good, um, one thing to So now you're at this point now you have a profile picture. Now you're moving in a direction that you want. Now here are tips on how to get a second shooting opportunity because a lot of people like, well, how I am part of of a forum. But literally, how does it roll? How does the role? How does it go down? Basically, I want you to engage in online forums. And when you engage in these online forums, um, I want you to have a personality I want you to give back. I want you to chat about everything. In addition to this great thing would be comment on blog's because basically, if people feel like you care about? I say basically a lot. Uh, okay. Quarters. Every time I say, basically, um, comment on blog's most of the time. People want to know that you like them. You don't like the opportunities that they can present to you remember? I think I will always call my business my baby. And I'm sure all the mom is at home or like how dare you? Do you know those nights when it feels like to feed? Okay, well, right now, right now, my my baby is my business right now. And so if somebody says, Oh, how cute is your baby like I know you know, that kind of stuff shows that you care about the person that's gonna be very important. So if you like what they're doing on the forum, start subscribing to their block and talk back consistently and a lot of sense. And we engage in social media. We always wonder, why are people responding to my tweets or on Facebook? Or are you? Are you being the first person to make that chess move consistently? Because you can't be like that. One time two weeks ago, I left a comment or block and she didn't come back to mine. You know, it's like consistently show that you care on a personal and a much deeper level right on their Facebook fan page. If you really want to create these opportunities with photographers that you respect consistently drop in their ear, there are people who tweet who are gonna be tweeting through creative life, and I feel like I know them. I was at a at a photo plus expo in New York and somebody sat next to me. He's like, Hi, I'm and I'm like, Oh, my God, I know you. How did I know him? Twitter, you know, he talks to me on Twitter. So became a very different capacity. You wanted you wanted these opportunities. Start talking to people. Show that you care about them. Talk back leading to that talking back on Twitter. People put things back on Twitter, and sometimes they want to create a conversation. And I think that in this industry, for some reason, when people want to create a conversation, we immediately want to like Okay, you know, it's it's like I'm shot. This photo would love to know what you think. Why? Why don't we do that, you know, it's like build other people up when you don't have that opportunity. I'm gonna get a little bit more Internet now. One thing to so now we're talking about what to do now. I hate talking about things in a negative or coming from no aspect, but I want y'all, Teoh my opinion and JD actually wrote a post about a year ago. If you want to go to the block and the little search icon, a search for second shooter tips. But here are a few that I feel it kind of stuck out. 01 thing. Another thing, too that, I forgot to say, is to leverage your assets. So a lot of times people feel because they're new to the game or because they feel like they're not matched up to the photographer. They want to shoot with that. The photographer won't let them shoot with him. It's completely the antithesis. Basically, Can you leverage what makes you different to make you an advantage to their team? Like, for instance, Penis is a graphic designer. If she were to say I don't know, designed something and personalize it and make it a J. Peg and send it to meet on email and said, Hey, enjoyed created life, whatever. And please do not send me 1000 j pegs, you know. No, right. Send Jasmine J Peg a cool graphic. Designers know. But again, if that was your skill set and that made you unique and that made you different, I would immediately stick out like, Oh, my God. This girl part of your video was that you incorporated illustrations and doodles immediately that made you stick out. But that's her asset. Maybe John couldn't do that. But John has a different skill set than Candice. There are other things, too. Like if I was pregnant, I'm not pregnant. People suspect I'm pregnant consistently. I'm not pregnant, but if I was pregnant and Aaron sent me a one Z Okay, this one's easy. $8. But it was her baby's favorite ones, and he didn't give the baby a rash or something. An $8 investment to share to show that Aaron cared about me and my baby and not so much about my photography is immediate for me, and I can only talk from my from my perspective, shows that somebody else can bring to me something that I don't have on my own. I never forget the story that was this photographer. I mean Crem dela crem photographer in Newport Coast. This guy charges a but Julian dollars for our wedding. And he was he tweeted that he was landscaping his backyard. A photographer sees it on Twitter tweets at him and says, Hey, I have experience of landscape architecture. Who would have ever thought that having experience with landscape architecture would ever put in a position to help another photographer? But it did. So they went and planted grass and palm trees. And homeboy got a one on one. You know, little console while they're out there planning getting dirty. That is your unique asset do stuff that makes you different. It makes you accessible, and it makes you build trust that other person. So now let's talk. You what? Use what you have got. Shake what your mama gave you. That's right. Okay, second shooter, faux paws. Now, this is something I hate again. I hate coming from a place of no or like negativity, but I do think things to not do here Five things you shouldn't do and they're all intuitive. But I can tell you how many times I see this on forums or happens again and again. Do not pass out your business cards, your professional business cards when you're second. Shooting a wedding Whenever I was second shooting a wedding. I always ask the photographer for three or four business cards at the start of the wedding, and I would put them in a bag. And if somebody asked, Can I have your business card? I would hand over that photographers business card and say, Please contact Greg. I wouldn't say, Well, I'm my own photographer, but I'm here with another photographer. Feel free to look me up. Never. If the photographer saw me from across the room handing over business card, he or she would know that I'm handing out his business card. It wouldn't put his or her head or her in an uncomfortable situation to say, Hey, did you pass out that business? Whose business card did you hand out? That is not happening. It's I'm here for you. Nobody else nobody else but us. Chickens mean you, homie, we're here for this together. Do not tag somebody else's clients on Facebook. I've seen it happen again and again. Never do that. Those are not your clients. It is not your business. You are there as a complete and total anonymous support to that main photographer. That was. Those photographers have to know that they could trust you with their baby. You're not going to take pictures of their baby and post on your block. Do you like my daughter? What if Aaron let me her boys? I was like looking my sons. Isn't it creepy? Why are you talking? Other people on Facebook do not from them. That is not cool. There was one time a bride had contacted me for a picture that she had seen on my bog. I had given all my photos to the photographer. That photographer didn't choose that that photo for his end edit. And she had seen it on my blawg. And then she asked me for the photo. Mom, is that having that conversation? I see. See that photographer? And I said this photographer has the photo? I think it may be. Might have got missed. Um you know, Miss, it might have missed in the upload. Sometimes it happens one or two photos here and there. This photographer will take care of you. Another makeup artist had contacted me about different. No, no, no, no. That conversation is happening with that photographer only and ever period the end. I am not getting involved in your business because if there was ever a question, your credibility is shot in. The only thing you have as a second shooter is your credibility. Christie. Absolutely, Absolutely. Thank you for asking that my thoughts if I'm shooting with the second I'm so excited. My I shot a wedding last November for Meg and Meg's a photographer in the Bay Area. Well, she has a wedding in Los Angeles, and she ranging, Lee said, I know what other slim, but do you have a state open? And it's in a couple weeks? And I was Yes, I totally haven't opened. Let's shoot together. Never in a 1,000,000 years. Well, I one block before her. I'm a quick blogger. I know it and I do know here's the thing. I know that I make people uncomfortable when I second U with him. I know that I blow him two days after the wedding. Three days of the wedding other people don't want for weeks of winning. While I might not agree with that approach that isn't it is not my wedding. It is not my judgment, ever if that when that wedding is blonde, email the photographer and ask, can I block it? I will give you a directly to your blood post and say that the wedding is worse. And I had a great opportunity shooting with you. Etiquette, etiquette, etiquette. All these things should be out there, cause in a minute you lose your street credibility. You can't get it back. Jasmine. Yes? We'll let you know that your wedding photographer, Mr David J. Is watching. Oh, you know, he's watching right now. He's acting nice shortly. He'll be harassing I e wears. Okay. Anthony Queen could give him great tips. Okay, way. E o. I'll give you a few tips. Okay. Great. Another thing that I don't want you doing at a wedding, if possible, I mean sorry. Okay. I don't think people really should refrain from doing yet weddings. Is telling guest how you would do things differently. I have been on shoots where I have been the second restored third shooter and the other shooter was not the main sugar would say, Well, I wouldn't do this. I'm talking to me in a conversation that other people around us could here never do that. You don't know the pressure. It is to be carrying on as a first shooter. You can't see. Your eyes are focused on one thing. You might do it differently. Who cares? It's not your wedding. They didn't hire you that hard. The other person never talked to. I remember that was I'd post JD posted. The second treasure sits, and somebody had left a comment and said Yes, but I had made friends with the bridal party, and she asked for my card and my response to that. Never. Okay, you have the time to make friends with the bridal party in a much different capacity than the main photographer does on that wedding day. That will never be cool. You could do things because you're not a stressed out and you're less focused, period. The end, yes, real quick. What about suggesting certain shots? Not to say like, Okay, maybe we should have done that, like if it's in the moment thinking like, Well, what we tried this shot. What do you think about that? It's about your it's about. One is about your approach into its about their acceptability at that moment. Like when I am there. Please. I am not like this beacon of amazing inspiration. 100% in time. Far from it. There are times and J. D and I The minute you confined like a rhythm with the photographer the minute I, um well, say something to him. He knows that little code that we have will jump in and give me a minute to set back. Or sometimes as we're walking from another place with the clients like, Oh, I saw this area or all this light here is cool. Like, do you want to see if you can try backlighting it? I can grab a reflector if you want to come at it from, like, the way I see this, it would be so bad if he had the wind going. If you're gonna take 10 minutes instead of the shot, I will harpoon you. You know, we have 20 minutes to work for the bride and groom, and you want to take 10 for this one. Awesome shot No way like not gonna happen. Your approachability, their acceptability, your attitude, your giving this. And if you're there shooting and they're, like in the groove you like, What if we did this and they can hear you, Not cool, because then it puts the photographer in the this position of so they listen to the second shooter. So they pass over the power so they say no. Then I look at the power tripper. Like what? Then it becomes Keep it quiet. Is that cool? Okay, never be above schlepping bags as a second shooter, like they ask you to jump. And you say how high it is not a question of Can you run to my car? That's in parking lot four, you know, and get that one little flash that I really needed. This moment it's like, Yeah, sure, totally can get you water on the way back. You know, like it's like do whatever it takes because they are so stressed out on the day. Help! Help! Help him! Don't stain in the first visit, don't stay in the same position as the first shooter. We all know that people want to build a portfolio on these. At these times, you will be far better photographer finding a different angle. Look, I was talking to Celeste a couple days ago, and she says that part of why she likes working with wedding photographers for creativelive event. Sorry, Celestine, probably three of us. For she likes working with money photographers at Creative Live events is because we're really low key. Now here's the thing. We're so low key because Loki is how we roll consistently. We never have models. We never have a professional makeup artists at every single shoot. We don't have perfect lighting. We don't have studio set up. It's like, Dude, what we're given is what we're given in any situation. So what you give me, I'm going to make it work. I do believe that any time you can make give your situation and make it work. Whatever you're given, it's going to be a better photographer for it. And the other photographer will appreciate you more for and bring you back because you brought something different that he or she couldn't get. Are we okay? I'm not breathing. Okay? I feel like I'm a little shiny. I could see my reflection in my nose. Okay. Here. Are we okay? Are we okay? Let's see. Oh, now we're gonna move into the second shooter experience. So this is what happens? What happens on my very 1st 2nd experience. So in between this time where I decide I'm gonna be come active on O S P, I start talking back to people. What am I doing? Creating trust, offering feedback and giving constructive criticism when asked for. So that's what's happening for about two months. Then there's a photographer on USPS. Name is Shawn and he puts it, Hey, guys, I'm shooting my very first wedding and I'm looking for a second shooter. Well, of course, everybody's like, I want that opportunity. Cool. So 100. I mean, like, a lot of people's for saying I'm free, I'm free. I'm free and dates and whatever. Of all the people that had put put out their names, Sean picked me. Now the question then becomes, Why do Sean pick me? I didn't have any experience. I don't even know if I had a decent and a camera and I had never done it before. Why? And I have to believe that he trusted me. That was it. Um, when it came time for my sister to get married, Ah, lot of people offered to. I was the maid of honor of Matron was the matron of honor, the matron of honor, and was also the wedding photographer. So we had to bring on 1/3 shooter who would become second shooter at some points of the day t to help with the ceremony. And JD shot the ceremony with it with the second shooter. And, um what, it came down for me at the end of the day was not somebody. Although she has an amazing performer and I love her dearly was I needed somebody I could trust. I needed somebody who want very, very, very emotional day for me. I could be able to have, like, a very high high in a very low low and may be okay with letting it all out. And that's how I ended up picking the third shooter. Name is Stephanie. Faith from Arizona absolutely adore her, and I couldn't I can't tell you how much we appreciated her on that day. We pick people based on how they make us feel, and I have to believe that maybe Sean, like how I made him feel, had met him personally to once or twice. And I get into that a little bit too now. We shot this first. It was the first time I ever shot a wedding. It was the first time he ever shot a wedding on his own. Candace, I like your smile. You make me feel life is okay. I'm not gonna lie. I'm, like, sweating and so nervous up here. And she's like, I'm like, OK, you're OK. You're OK. I'm a home schooler. I need positive reinforcement all this high. You're OK. You're the pest. You jump high. Okay, so we shot this wedding in May of 2006. It was his first winning on his own. It was my 1st 2nd shooting opportunity on his own. And I will tell you that part of it could have been an asset that had never been a second shooter or even another legit photographer, because nobody ever wants to be shown up on their own event. Right? There was a lot of things playing in my favor. Maybe. I don't know. I did interview Sean before, you know, I was picked as his second shooter. So then, um, on the wedding day, I'm really happy. So nervous, So, so, so nervous. Rented a couple lenses before I rented myself a flash before the wedding on Bought a couple CF cards and then we just I went in and we sent our cameras. I never knew I had to sink a camera like, Okay, let's sink our cameras. And we shot the wedding and I just followed his lead. And when I didn't know what to dio, I made it up because your division of his brand and if I look lost, that makes Shawn's brand looked lost, and I could never, ever do that. Whatever he said, whatever he needed, I was conscious saying, Hey, what do you need? You may get your bags. I was nervous. Four ham. Um, and I think that it went really well and we were okay and sure, I wasn't like the best that taking the photos, but I was OK with my photos. I felt like I did what he brought me here to Dio. After that experience, I stupid and idiotically thought doors would fly open and I would be like, yeah, yeah, Bobby Fischer of the Rotoworld right here Didn't really work for me at all. You know, I had my bitches out, put them on blawg. And then, um, you know, nothing happened like this socks. And I think that it was kind of like the approach at the time. I think it was like, definitely my mind set in my mind frame. And I think that I'm gonna take a slight little detour and talk about that specifically because I do think this is an imperative time with the business. The business mind frame changed about comparison insecurity and resistance within your business growth because I think that this could be extraordinarily detrimental before I get into this. I wrote this slide or this part of the presentation before reading a book. Now, if it is the one book that you read for your business, it's not a business book. It's actually an art book, but I really do feel it. It plays directly into business. It's called The War of Art by Stephen Press Field Press Field Stephen Press Build the War of Art This book I mean kick my butt, slap me in the face and had my head all at the same time. I read in just a couple weeks ago and I have a dog dog eared each page about me every pages all year, Like the whole book is highlighted. It's so so, so good it talking about comparing yourself. It talks about how hard it is to get your work done talking. We just wrote action, just doing what you do every single day. And, um, but before, before I even got to this point, this is this is this is 2011 me 2006 Meat had never heard of Stephen Press, but I don't even know if his book was even written at the time. And I kind of suffered from the every everyone else syndrome. So everyone else has everything I don't have, because at the time, I really did think that, um, I was alone. I was the only person in the world who was feeling how I was feeling. I implicitly knew that wasn't the truth. It wasn't fact, but it was how it waas. That was how it's felt. I can't justify, can't rationalize it. And I do think that's when I realized this. In retrospect, I had to really had to make myself better far before I could ever make my photos better because I do believe I'm gonna get to this in a minute. But our photos are a reflection of where are where we are. People ask why I'm able to take happy pictures, and I firmly believe it's because I become a happy person who I was in growing in 2006. Maybe it was a hot. It was hard. I was happy. But I don't know, uh, fight, experience, joy. I don't know if that was something that I was able to talk about to myself and admit it. Um, I felt like everybody else had everything's. They had sample problems. They had nicer studios. They had flushed your cars. They had smaller waistlines. They're dye. Jobs were amazing. You know, I was just like everybody has everything that I don't have, and that's why I will never succeed. So if I go back to law school, it's because it's because the game the cards are stacked against me and everybody else is playing a different game. Everybody in the World Series and I can't even get into tee ball League you know, like this is how I felt. So if you're feeling like this, the cards are stacked against you, they are. And if you feel like everybody is playing the world Siri's, it's because they are. But it's your mindset. Play the T ball game as if you're going to be playing in the World Series. It's a meal wild, actually understand, comprehend and digest this. But when it slowly started to happen, I really believe that good things started happening because of it. So again, I'm gonna like my dad's gonna hate me until about energy, Like whatever you put out in the world, it kind of comes back to you. It's not always happy and warm and fuzzies, but it comes as much larger proportion when you think you know what again? Going back to that blonde post I might not like where I am right now, but dang it have come a long way. And I'm gonna like where I'm going because I think that I would just focus on what I didn't have. And I never looked at the potential for growth. I never looked at You know what? I stood second shot, a wedding that's far more than a lot of people had. And that's far more than I did in the past six months. So good for me. I couldn't ever think like that was always coming from a place of no what it came down to And I hate even writing this was that I was just jealous and envious. I'm gonna put that out there because I don't think that we talk about it so much in the industry is really taboo. So happy, like, really like, so happy. They know me last week. Your you know, it's like, Oh, we know that and yet we don't ever talk about it. So I'm gonna come out and maybe nobody else ever Experience is jealousy. And it was just me, but in my store shed oven office, because I didn't have the office, it was It was the storage said that had no windows, that they just put like, whiteboard around with random strong lights. And they gave me a laptop. They're like, OK, this is it. And that's why I worked. So I would be reading forums in this office thinking jealous and I couldn't say that was jealous. I couldn't say that was envious. I was just like That sucks. They're left. Look at that. If I lived in Tennessee, I could totally have a studio. But I'm here in l A. You know. No, I could have unfortunately Oh, my Oh, my kidding. I couldn't Couldn't vocalize the fact that jealousy and envy could eat people and can manifest itself in a very negative way online. If you are feeling that way, you need toe one. Acknowledge it because I didn't already say that our work is a byproduct of who we are. If that is the case, then you need to check yourself and say, Who am I right now? Do I like who I am? That's a really tough question. Because if you don't like who you are, then you have to start making strides to change it. And when you start changing it, you start acknowledging the things that you don't like about yourself. So acknowledgement is a big thing to moving your business forward. If you are not happy, how then can you make yourself happy? Are there certain things that you could change? Are there people I have? I just say things that I would later I stop following people on Twitter because every time they tweeted it put me in a bad place. I was like, Oh, again, you're breaking again. Wow. You know your retweeting that you're talking about yourself. Wow, you Every time somebody puts something out, I was like, I realized this is making in a bad mood. This is making me not a nice person. So what did I do? I stop that. Can you do that? Can you acknowledge it and move on? That's the first step would be to move on past the acknowledgement. You know what? Maybe I am jealous right now, and maybe I am envious, and maybe I'm not at a good place. If that is, or it complete the antithesis. If you are happy and joyful and you know peaches and cream all day, that's great. Now do the same thing. It's just move on. Acknowledgements a big thing. If you are not feeling great about where you are, the first thing that you could do is help others. There's just it's really hard to be really upset what other people have when you realize there are a lot of people who have a lot less, and I mean this both in a professional terms, and I mean this on a personal terms. You wanna walk through a hospital? How dare me to ever be angry that I don't have a studio when there's a child battling for her life? How dare there are people who have far greater struggles around the world, the knee sitting complaining because I have a 20 D Somebody slapped me wrong. That gives such a bad place. I want you to create schedule because when you create a schedule with one, you're balancing your growth personal growth, like practicing and creative. You could schedule time to help others be it online, be it in person being anywhere that's going to be your main goal. So this right here is a little detour that I want to talk about and bring to the surface and let everybody know that it's something I struggled with. And I feel like I've come a long way from that point because I told myself, You need a change and this isn't good, so that's gonna be a good thing. So the next step, I think we're gonna go into questions. Great. Anthony just a little bit back, but about second shooting on when you're first starting out trying to build a portfolio. But you want to represent the belief photographer. How do you sort of balance shooting for them? So it's consistent for their work but also establishing your kind of greatest ill? Well, if I were to bring sometimes for larger weddings, JD and I will bring 1/3 shooter. It's not so. It's not so common, but every so often we do. And I don't care the style of that. Whatever style that photographer brings specific, whatever you bring is going to be so cool. Like we all are gifted with our own set of eyes and vision, and whatever he bring to the table is gonna be so awesome because it's not mine. So I don't ever pick somebody According Teoh. Oh, your style looks like mine. I would actually probably pick somebody who style wasn't like mine, because I want that diversity in the portfolio. Can I give you my number? Wait like 20 minutes of each other and we've never met. I'm clearly a hermit. No talk about networking. Why don't we owe getting? I'm just getting you have a couple questions? Yeah, E. Okay. Um, Karen Noble asked or said I'm shooting my best friend's writing. Why else while also being a photographer, would like to know how you pulled off your sister's wedding? Hey, I know you're a noble cause. She gives me look low, shout out. So people who I am very familiar with on Twitter Facebook I'm gonna shout back at you cause now is my opportunity. So thank you so much. That's political. It was really hard. I don't know. Some people were totally for and some people were totally against. I actually put the question out on my block, and everybody and their mother had, if you need about what I should do, my sister didn't give me an option. She like you're shooting. OK, so it was very difficult. But again, I set a schedule for myself. And I knew what I knew when I was working, and I knew when I was not working, I did all of my sisters prep. And then when? When she was about to get her dress and Stephanie did the guys. Oh, no, J. D did the guys getting ready. And when Bianca was gonna get into her dress. Stephanie came in and got those pictures. And when we did the couple's photos, Janey stepped out. And it was just Stephanie and I because I love my family. I adore them. We're all like a hot mess. Like my mom was like a spinning top. And I was, like, control my mother, like, you know, their industry people here, you just be with her. And so he was controlling Hey, was held, was with my family, and we did the couple shots. And then the ceremony I turned off. It was like, Now I'm gonna be in matron of honor mode and I'm gonna be there for my sister and, you know, my hot mess of a family. I would be like, Please don't embarrass me too much, But we're just gonna have fun at this wedding. And, um Then, after I did all the detail shots and, um, then I was off and Stephanie did the reception cause anybody could do, except it was just, you know, I shot JD shot during toasts and and Stephanie shot during toast to get to reactions. So the reaction and then the toast itself and then we were off. So all dancing photos, which are, like, totally lame. Anyway, you know, Stephanie was there and then yeah, that was that. So? So a couple of people have been asking if you could talk about again, and this is from Candace was Minniti and Twilight Very. Can you explain again? Who owns the copyright to the images clicked as the second shooter. So when you're a second shooter, does the first shooter own the copyright? Or, um, I could be wrong, but yeah, at least that's how I was. That's how I was trained were brought up. So if that photographers making a profit off my work, God was him good. I'm happy for his business there, you know, they're my photos, like some photographers are very different. So when I was second, shooting should get into that. Now or later, I'll probably get into now. So when I was second shooting different photographers and different rules, I wasn't always allowed to use the photos. Sometimes people would allow me to use them on my website, but I couldn't use them on my block. Sometimes I couldn't use them online at all, but I can use them in studio, which totally sucks because I didn't have a studio. You know what, am I gonna do? It blow up putting my living room, you know, like OK and then some photographers would let me use whatever they wanted with them again. What it came back down to was just if they paid me a lot of more money than they would likely not allow me to use images online if I was shooting for free, Then they gave me a lot more leeway to do with it. So again, it's totally up to the photographer. There is not a right or wrong way to do it whatsoever. The only wrong thing to do is not established what the terms are in advance. If you are a second shooter, it is your job to say, What can I can I know? Can I not? Whatever, you know, wait a sec. I believe it's a second shooter's responsibility because the favor will always be in the first photographer, and you have to know what you're getting into. I kind of had ups and downs of photographers when they said yes, you could use images and then I show up on the day and the photographer gave me his or her own cards. And I had to shoot on his own card and turn the card over the night, and they never saw the photos. And I was on functioning on the assumption that I would be able to use those photos. And so stuff like that happens, you know, just so, yeah, I have a question, Yes. Goes back to helping people, which I'm all about, but I feel like, personally, I went through a phase that envy the jealousy. I had different stages of my work, recognized it, and at first was like, I want to help anybody. It took me a really long time to figure this out. You get yourself, you know, But then then I was a course. That growth in that and then, um yeah, but I just still see a lot of other photographers that are, like, informs and stuff that I've seen. They're like, Oh, I don't I don't help people out, you know? Basically figure out yourself the same thing. I think that's what people admire about you so much is that you are out there. You're helping out. What would get you to that point like Teoh, recognize like I want to help other people and now to be doing workshops and be so helpful, you know, like, what changed? I don't know if there was, like, a necessary, like one thing, but I will say that the best, like the best piece of advice that I got was that it's not important to be the best. It's more important to be different. When I realized that I couldn't compete on the level of being the best, it was more important. It was more important for me to use helping others as a point of differentiation. Now, I will tell you that when I started doing it, it was met with such resistance because it was shaking things up. It was doing things wrong. It was doing things different. Why you're you doing that? Furthermore, it was. Who are you to be offering that? You know, we were these other photographers who had been shooting 10 20 years, five years, even and they're saying, like, what d What could you shooting one year? Because I started doing ethic use about a year, year and 1/2 into my business and you're like, What can she possibly teach anybody? Guess what? There were people who got more from my one year at a Q post than another post that was far too advanced and far too removed from where the readers were that I had. Who is more? Here's the thing after creative life. I hope you guys go back and I hope you guys put out in social Media on blog's Twitter Facebook about what you learned because you are more accessible, your story is more palatable. Your pace is more people's pace are right now. You are the leaders to people who have been shooting for a year or two years. I'm now a little bit too far removed from that. I want to help create the next generation of leaders. And guess what? If I become the single person to start helping people, giving them the freedom to share online, So freaking be it. I don't care. I'm so cycle. So passion, because so much, so much about so much. There's been so much negativity towards it. Bump, you bump, you seriously watch wash. I like watch what I do. Watch how you hate on me and watch me fly not because I am good, but because I have support from people who believe in me. So all you all the other haters out there can say what they want. But the people marching to decided me and behind me and in front of me are making changes in stride in this industry. So watch us rocket out and watch us fly. Will you stay in your perpetual cubicle on behalf the Internet? I just got chills way. I think we have, like, maybe to a time for me to questions. And then we're gonna take a 10 minute break. John. Yeah, um, so going back to when you first started and putting images out there and putting yourself out there on the web. You know, I guess we're gonna be talking about this last night. Doesn't start talking. You put yourself out there and you look at images a month later. A week later, Whatever. And it's like that's just yeah. How do you How do you marry that and go back to it? I can't go. OK, I want to put myself out there, but you know, I don't feel like I'm good enough. I don't feel like I'm You'll never be good enough like Sorry, that sucks. It totally does. You will never be good enough. I look at pictures from last year when I was looking because as we put the presentation together, I was looking for pictures that had a lot of negative space. And I don't shoot so much for that so I can put text over it. So I was going back to my portfolio for three years to see if I could find pictures that worked. And as I'm looking at these pictures and three years ago, I was like, Oh, my peaking, you know. But I firmly believe that the Jasmine in 2012 will look back at pictures from 2011 and and say, I'm really glad how far I've come and it's how you approach it. You know it just like you could say, Like God, I sucked or dang, I'm a lot better, you know, like is 1/2 glass full mentality. And I think that's the way to put yourself out there. And here's the thing, especially on forums. I wouldn't put myself out there because I wasn't ready for the criticism, but the minute you put stuff out there is the minute you grow. Like I'm a firm believer in getting uncomfortable. Like, put yourself out there. Let somebody say that that picture is terribly exposed, because what you're thinking on that next shoot is Dad, I really gotta watch that exposure, you know? I mean, just that's the way it works. So yes, of course. Like, put yourself out there in, like, a different capacity. Get uncomfortable. The pictures will stock. They will continue to suck. But guess what? That's part of the process is what we dio. One more question. Okay, um, one of our guests online. I wanted to know about second shoot A If it's okay to put an image on your block that has a different style of post processing than the one the main shooter gives to the client. Like, what do you think about post processing as a second shooter? Do you do all the post processing your okay? So I'm gonna function as if JD was my second shooter. Not my consistent shooter and husband. So let's say seeing you bring on 1/3 year will function as a surgeon. Susan, we shouldn't Seattle my cake and you comes to shoot with us. I firmly believe in talking things into actually reality. So I'm gonna be in Seattle later this year. Okay, so we come to Seattle and we shoot We have you come along as 1/ shooter. I You know, what I usually request is that you would give me probably 2 to 300 of your favorites and anything that you're gonna be blogging. I want to know what you're gonna be blogging. So that that make sure that ends up in the in the edit so the client can never said Come back and say, Hey, why didn't get that picture? So those are things that I'm looking for, And, um, as far as as far as you blogging, what you do, that's totally fine. And I believe I've gotten to a point that my clients are attracted to me for my style of post processing is very, very, very minimal. I'm not. I'm not a huge believer and making my photos look like art pieces. I just want them to look like photos. Now, if, for instance, you were really heavily into, like textures, hypothetically your intersections and so you make the pictures all full of textures, and the client wants it. Well, se que yo, can you give me that bull rez textured picture for the client? It's sexual, aren't my thing, but if the client likes it, I'm gonna make her happy. You know, I don't know if I would go in the album. We'll see. Maybe when we get a print, you know, really rock of it or whatever. But that's kind of like how that would work. I'm not sure if that does that Make sense? Are we okay?