Understanding the How and Why of Shooting in a Busines
We ended on questions so just to keep us right on track where we're gonna go, we are going to jump right in and see where we left off, which was the how and why of posing and shooting in a business context. So what I was saying before I was creative life is a great job in providing different classes and regards to posing and shooting. In fact, the last created live workshop that he did was five excusing course that he did was five days, and we spent the whole afternoon on posing and shooting, so I'm not gonna have to get into that so much, but I want to talk to you about how it helps me focus on my business and home to attract this type of client that I wanted. So a few days ago, I put out on twitter and facebook for people to please ask me the questions they want to need to address, and a lot of what I heard was how do I start attracting a very specific client? Now the key to that sentiment or that statement is how do I attract the client? Not how dwight pick the client, because I don...
't pick my clients, my kinds pick me and, yes, it's a mutual decision to a certain degree. But the beauty of how I serve the business was that I put so much of myself out there such a distinct style of photography that it started attracting a very distinct type of ride. They're gonna get a little bit more into that, um what? I want to get touched on it briefly before we get into there is talking about inspirations. We did talk about inspiration where I draw inspiration from in high school, I decorated the inside decorated, I, I guess, decorated the inside of my locker with magazine clippings. Just things that I loved, usually from, like, seventeen or cosmo magazine stuff that I just loved. Pictures of good light girls having a good time with a cute boy on a beach, living the life that I essentially wanted. So I would get these magazine things that would put it in my locker, and I just would throw a month up there. I just loved it. It was just so much of who I wass. Then I went to college and quick total detour of a story. So my sister and I were twins, and we decided not to do this in college because you wanted our own identity. But we applied for scholarships, and incidentally, the school are the college that we both applied to. You gave us the maximum amount of scholarships so we ended up going to the same college because we chose our college based on the amount of money that we got so I looked at her I was like don't you even think we're gonna be roommates because we didn't even share rooms at home we would have killed each other and so the school makes you fill out these forms about your personality or you do you stay up late at night all these other things so I filled out mine she felt hers a couple weeks later we get back it's a scantron thankful that we get back and it's congratulations. Your roommate is bianca juarez and I was like juan I was like, so this computer matched me up with my twin sister I was so disappointed I was like, oh my god and my mother who's like bless her heart she calls the college thinking that's what junior high like I need to speak to the dean of bedroom like god mom she's like my daughter's cannot be in the same room because it will be a complete embarrassment it'll be tragic world war three and ladies like listen two weeks in is the first room change so I was like, oh, I'm not even bothering to unpack my boxes because I'm not rooming with you day one I look at my sister and I give her a big hug thank you best roommate compared to these crazy people like you know is like the girl next to us was like decorated a room like lord of the rings and I was like, oh my god you know I heard am okay so anyway so the good thing about that was sharing a room is that I could decorate the room however I wanted so what did they end up going back to you decorate the room with like magazine clippings ripped out magazines and I just liked and ended up making kind of like an avant garde news wallpaper of sorts just throwing stuff up there covering my walls of things that I liked and jd can attest to this because he still dated me all throughout this time so he can attest to this weird magazine clipping wallpaper that I created this was my inspiration far before I was a photographer so I think kind of theoretically back unknowingly training my eyes to things that I liked far before I knew I was going to become a professional photographer so I think this place to my advantage absolutely do I think it's a competitive advantage absolutely do I think it's solely my own not so whatsoever so it if you start finding things that you like that our photography driven then find those things and figure out how to replicate them if you feel it's advantageous towards you for your business okay as we move on from there, what I want to talk about is I the things I had to do so in addition, teo mastering my camera so we get the camera starting to practice this is before him second shooting so in between that three months, three, four months of may second shooting, I asked my best friend because I have been practicing on the orange tree on the running shoes, on the chair, those assignments so I'm kind of building my confidence it takes me about two, two and half months to ask my best friend even to get in front of a camera again. I was shy, I doubted myself, and the minute I put myself out there, she was going to expect something I didn't want anybody to expect anything from me ever, and if jd was like how's it going it's fine, please don't ask I'm practicing, okay? You know what? Don't push me. So, um I wanted to do it on my own at my own terms, and clearly the people like creative lives are learning now that I'm a slow mover like I have known about this class forever and I have been sending them piecemeal of like the presentation and they're like god, women this morning you guys saw craig come and get the zip drive because I was like, no, no I needed a moment last night I'm a slow mover so it's like please don't ask where I am it will get done okay and so by the time I actually asked my friend to compose for me I was excited I was never so we went down to san diego I thought that light was great when it was terrible was like want talking afternoon right son I was like yeah this will be okay and it was kind of like opposing disaster because in my mind I felt like I've gotten much better with my camera and then I realized a tragic mistake that me posing her ended up being like a like a game of simon says like put your hand here tilt your hip out turn your chin here you know simon says like and next thing you know she looked at the broken chopstick and she was like against the wall and I was like that's not what I have in my head like what happened and then in addition to posing her I had to shoot and then as I went back and a poster that I thought was semi okay I had to go back and get my settings and so there she was like I was like don't move don't move it's like ok it's about time I took a picture she's like it was a one terrible picture and I knew this so by the time I would left the shoot and I reviewed the pictures I knew I had teo which brings us to this line clearly I forgot my I had to learn how to interact with clients before I got paid for a shoot that's a key thing people become so fixated on making money from their craft that they're forgetting a oh you've got to get your stuff together before you ever expect to get paid for it. That is not only your job it's your responsibility also I knew that after this shoot when even though I was inspired by magazines, I hadn't really been consulting them as a point of reference it was just about me and my camera get it right. I knew I had to revisit the magazine clippings that's definitely what it came back down to and a time I would read these magazines get these magazine clippings and start ripping them out and started putting them inside like a catalogue of sorts like a a sketchbook and I'll just tape or glue them and so I could just go back and look at them look at them, review them now in order to boost my confidence so that shoot was like a big deal for me because it helps me digest what I needed to do and how I needed to do it so in order for me to approach a shoot the next time with a little more confidence I made myself a mental checklist because I was still trying to dabble with shooting manually and shooting at the time of shooting aperture priority, but I wanted to push myself to shoot manually, but I had just too much going on aperture priority, but if given the opportunity again, I was like, I'm gonna make a mental checklist. When I started doing was making a mental checklist, the first thing on the mental checklist was to check my s o um, if you're not familiar with, so they have other creative live courses and the ever prevalent google is a great source on figuring out what s o is now, the reason why I felt like I didn't struggle so much with issa was because film, even as a kid, I would walk into a room at the time it was cbs is like costco or, you know, like save on save on welcome to save on and at the bottom, the kodak would be like, one hundred needs a little sun and then, like eight hundred, you see, like a guy, a little running, you know, sixteen hundred, what do you see the moon? So all of a sudden, I kind of just, like, okay, I feel like I have sense in that term. I too choose my aperture now off the lenses that I told you I had when we started the three lenses the seventy two hundred to twenty four to seventy and the sixty nine thirty five the widest temperature was an f two point eight so I kind of wanted to stay around that range because I really like that that look so choosing my aperture according to what I was shooting at the time practicing I was shooting with one person may be about to pointing I was adjusting my shutter speed from that point that's kind of like what it started out really really really basic and I please forgive me if this is really basic tomorrow we're gonna get into more complex and building the business but this is for people who eight don't know me beat don't know what's up and three are trying to build a business so I'm not gonna start from point you kno w and taking dizzy wanted from a disease so please forgive me if this is the bare basics but I want to explain exactly how it started from that context let's move on to learning how to shoot manually can I ask you a question? We're sorry about your inspiration um you're talking about how you mentally approach the camera setting but is there a particular way that you mentally approach deposing because I just encountered a situation I feel like it happens to me a lot now excuse me and actually I've tried to stop looking at other people's blog's and more towards editorial shoot like what I'm attracted to because when I look at other people's blog's and I see like photos I love like they get stuck in my head and for a long time you know the first half of the shoot I'm like taking my model or friend or whoever I'm I'm posing on what I'm thinking oh what would you like to do or what would you know what I'm like thinking like them and then it's not until halfway through the shoot I'm doing like this isn't working and then I get into me but I have all these poses and mind but then when I get there I'm just like kind of forget it and want it going with the flow you know like do you have like, a something that after you've looked at all these photos you just kind of pick some that you really love taking with you? Are you just hanging? If the pain's there were two consistently look at other painters work in his genre era is it doesn't really matter just painting in general it's going to influence you? I do believe that people you know have such a hard time admitting that they look at other people's work or that they're inspired I all for that I you know, I started my business falsely. So so don't copy what I did, but I started my business as trying to be a carbon copy of three or four photographers in orange county because I was so inspired by them that is fine. The trick then becomes because people will send me photos those that can you believe this photographer did it? They copied your pose. Okay, one I never invented a pose like I didn't. You know, I'm merely a by product of thousands of other photographers. I have look teo beyond time that I was even born right? I didn't invent the hug, unfortunately for me, so I don't think that do I think they're strong similarities? Absolutely. What does it then push me to do become set? No, it pushes needed get become better to become different embrace the fact that you are getting inspired by mike, right? So take my expos and then make it actually take jasmine star pose, which doesn't belong to jesus are just something you might have seen on my block, right? That I probably have seen maybe somewhere else, and then you make it your own now here's the thing that I I'll come out just be really I'm struggling two thousand eleven for me has been about change, I like where high have gotten, but for me I became I become too much of a good poser oppose you oppose me I'll oppose you and I feel like the pictures lost something now it's gonna be composing with action that's my goal for two thousand eleven it's getting you to oppose moving into an action to get more lifestyle commercial things on a wedding it's difficult on a wedding because girls lose their formation as they wear their their their dress and things like that but getting whatever pose you have your mind regardless of who it's from regardless of where it's from making your own don't ever hide behind you know yeah it's hard it's hard it's hard for me and I've been doing this five years and I continue to think if it's if it's not hard then I'm not doing it right it should always be a struggle for me always because then I also I just becoming I compose that and all the picture's become very very very similar somebody had said oh I noticed that your your pictures are looking slightly different and at first I was like uh and then I was like, wait, I'm intentionally trying to change my poses and people are now commenting on it and now I'm gonna be bothered by you know it's working it's working it's ok it's a process and sometimes it's working and sometimes I need to get better at it it's fine she learning to shoot manually when I learned remember I'd said I think it was probably nine months ten months that I was shooting on aperture priority when I had the opportunity and the yeah the opportunity and I could be lax I would try to shoot manually you know that orange tree they got shot the heck out of manual on a shoot it was aperture party because I needed one less thing to think about when I started shooting one hundred percent mainly I saw my work change one hundred percent by then and knew that I was in constant control of my environment then felt that not only learning to ship manually but being confident in shooting manually I really felt like I had become a professional for the first time and that was a big thing the minute that you feel like you are making strides to becoming a professional really does change how you approach your clients your work branding website everything like that um and a misnomer out there is that people think that it's easy in the complain and they want the magic pill I prayed for the magic pill it never arrived but I'm telling you hard work elbow grease and all that good stuff really really really does pay off so I would talk about how I started to learn manual um they're this how I'm talking to you about how I learned to shoot me lee isn't the right way I'll be quite honest with you one hundred percent it is not the only way and in fact I will say it's absolutely ludicrous it is ridiculous it is unbelievable I get it fine whatever say whatever you want to say about it but it was how I learned so I'm just gonna talk about that now I went teo a workshop and uh for tarver I refer to it as the magic setting there's no such thing as the matter just magic setting but I didn't know where to start at all when shooting manual I had no contacts so when we were out shooting it was bright sun we were on the beach and the sun was slightly behind the couple's heads slightly he said, oh, the setting is and he and said this setting f two point eight one I don't know what to say to a hundred and eighty two hundred eighty two thousand five hundred of a second I saw one hundred ok, this is what he said his setting wass I then used this setting as the benchmark for everything I shot for the next six to eight months I only ever shot it two point eight ever because because I felt comfortable with so if I wasn't a shaded area like okay like two hundred I so between two hundred, four hundred so that was my option so I knew that I would always shoot it enough to point eight so what was the only thing I had to control my shutter speed every time I on ly ever left my apertura f two point because I only then had to be concerned with two things I so and end shutter speed if I felt confident with isil and they weren't changing too much in that general vicinity that I so stayed the same, then the shutter speed would be the only thing to change within that range that's when I all of a sudden I felt like I think I can do this um the more the more confident I felt with pulling out my magazine inspirations and then all of a sudden I had my little magic setting I always thought I'd have to point eight you only get was changing was really my soul in my shutter speed. All of a sudden I felt like the business took on a different ride because like I can control my settings literally why posing the client in like a shaded area? I can control my settings in the camera and I can control the posing once I felt confident with what was going on and I understood how to control the camera posing became easier, what happens is people through all this stuff on the plate and they're trying to shove in l a at once take digestible bites and practice practice practice now, before we're going to shoot, I would consult the what I call the manual, all those things that I pulled out from magazine put it in a book, reviewed those before I went on a shoot, and then I let it be, because, you know, I'm not just get one or two photos, and then acting as though I'm to make these photos happen. It doesn't happen all of a sudden, when you're given the opportunity to make that one photo, they're like, I think this is what I want to do, then you have those opportunities to make it happen, so posing and shooting attracted the type of client that I wanted. I sort of shooting. Now, clearly, when I first started, I wouldn't say, oh, my, I shot fashion shut editorial, absolutely not. I was clearly, ah, hot mess, trying to figure out what was going on with these things, however, to those girls, within those budgets that I was working with on a small scale, I was not only personalized within their price range, I was also a girl, who's, trying to be different because a lot of photographers who are in the lower price range, at least in orange county, between that eight hundred and fifty hundred dollar range, all, we're doing much the very state like doing the the same thing they were the weekend warriors work full time going on the weekends get it done make a little bit of extra money for the family kind of they have to have an expensive hobby those are the people that was competing with so all of a sudden they see a girl who's within their price range who's trying to shoot editorially taking a little bit more risk and being personal not only that I was also a former bride I was their age I watch the same tv shows they watched I bought the same shoes they bought they noticed the jeans that I bought I know just their handbags we could talk about all those things that right there was enough to start moving me and attracting to get the same type of clients I'm sorry I think people want like this deep answer that's all I have but the good thing is that it's not limited to me that's great you know I didn't you know pay ten thousand dollars to go to the seminar and have them tell me with the magic things were it was it was just myself and as long as your yourself you keep on doing those things you start attracting the type of client you want you're my client is not your client what do you want? Start putting that stuff out there shoot in away do you want like emotional artsy clients do not shoot editorially shoot emotional pictures shooting with a thirty five get their heads you know I see a lot of people with their eyes closed you've got to do it right don't just have the eyes close picture because this other artistic photographers having eyes close picture if you could sell the closed eyes picture, sell the heck out of it if it's not your skill set step away until you get it right and start putting that out until you could foster that type of client okay, cool amen he wasn't saying ok, thank you for being really we were actually susan I just having this conversation the other day about just in the beginning just kind of two point eight and just letting it go and yeah, I get that and so yeah, a lot of various right there it's a flying out there is that hon there's a time and like what we do very unlike still photographers, food photographers, fashion photographers, commercial photographers is they're working with a different type of group they're different more they're they're working with quantifiable things and we get unprofessional not put together on you know, bad light, bad location like all of these things you're like oh my god, you got to make it work, I believe just like okay, I firmly believe that everybody in their life should be a server I do I believe that everybody should work in a restaurant at least for a year of your life it makes you a better human being. Number two I believe that every photographer should feel wedding photographer because it is the hardest I mean, I know that what chase does is so hard it is so so so hard and I know what what you these architectural offers it is so so, so hard but when you have like nothing and you could make it work props to you for real I believe that everyone should be a wedding photographer before they get into anything it makes you better now here's the thing now let's get down into the things get let's see shooting for your business a little bit deeper so if you're at level one that's cool now for those of you a little bit advance let's go to dissecting the how how to start shooting in a way that will attract a certain type of client second how when I looked no here's the thing so I got to a point in two thousand seven where I didn't like the photographer I had become so the business was growing and we're gonna get to the business part oh later today or tomorrow and we'll talk about how it wars end into what it wass and they took us out back and I realized I don't like the photographer I am wow it was great the people start talking about me and trusting me and hiring me but they're hired me because I was certain price point and their friends were talking about me and that's great but what about me as a person as you know a purported artist what am I trying to do they sect the how now when I went back to my manual milo inspiration notebook I asked myself how was the photo illuminated because here's the thing before and you're one I was looking at just the photo right now in your two I'm going back and looking the same photo and asking entirely different set of questions how was the photo illuminated if that's natural light that's one thing isn't natural light with reflectors isn't natural light with bounce light that's flash is it studio lighting is it white bounce is it is it golden reflector dude I think it's a silver reflector all of those questions I needed toe asked myself so that if given a similar situation that I wanted to reproduce I would be able to do it ask myself how the photo is eliminated how was the photo captured essentially challenging myself to wonder what kind of lens were they using what type of camera are they using do I think it's a crop sensor do I think it's a full sense of joy think he shot on film if they shot on film was a thirty five millimetre all of those things and asking myself to what prepare me for when I was on a shoot and understand, how could he take my photography to a different level? It's not just enough anymore, so look at a photo and say I like the photo now ask yourself the house that when you're doing this at the same situation, you're going to do it again. How was the subject pose now again asking about the post but how can you get them into the post was even the deeper question which is what I asked in? How did the photographer get them to pose that way? Because it's not enoughto have opposing your mind, we all know it is never enough tow have opposing mine because you get them in that pose and her like crap. This looks off all you know we know that, right? So what? What? Why aren't we asking? What did that photographer do to get them to that point? What was the verb ege that photographer used practices yourself? I did whatever I grew up in church plays I certainly talk to myself more than anybody else in my day, j d will say, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm just talking to myself all straight have an argument with somebody in my head, I'll tell him off alive anything, my photos ask yourself how to the photographer to get the boat up talking out loud because you don't know how uncomfortable that conversation is, you know how like, dumb you sound until you say it, and so then you say, and you're like, oh, this is what it is a couple days ago, I usually shoot engagement sessions always on my own. I wasn't feeling too hot a couple days ago, and I ended up taking an engagement, which I never normally do on a saturday only because it was like a different circumstances in the client was out of town. I said, ok, we'll shoot him a saturday and I it was a saturday for me. I just didn't want to be away from the things that I really wanted to be around yesterday if you would be able to come with me and he said, yes, I'll be able to come with you, and so he was able to see me in a different capacity with how I deal with my client at the very start of the engagement session. What am I saying now? He knows me through and through, and he could say, yeah, it sounded like a little bit like you knew what you were talking about immediately, but you pitch it in a way that you were saying it as if it was the first time because there's a list in my head of things I need to tell my client in advance to prepare them for success to get them educated and to let them know I'm on the same page as them what is the verb ege that I am using toe let them know I want him to pose the way I want to depose him how is it that I can get an average girl who's never been in front of the camera and make her look above average if not model esque I will say that my girls look good not because what I'm doing but because they let themselves feel beautiful beautiful but are you what are you doing to get him in rehab uncle about that tomorrow? How did the photographer get them to pose that way? How was the story told now as you're looking at these pictures in one frame of photographer is telling you something he or she is telling you to buy the beer to go on the trip to get the purse toe wear those jeans but what is the story behind it? I think that um michael cores does a fabulous job his marketing campaign does a fabulous job selling the lifestyle the idea now guys who are hearing this go look online you want to know what your girls are, what girls are looking at I firmly believe that the metro photographer is very, very, very successful I had a male photographer and I liked him because he was very well in tune with a lot of mixed things you know? He watches soccer as much as he knows a little bit about what girls like or do if you're not familiar with this print campaign, the current print campaign is all about this lifestyle like this get up and go type clothing and where this um bahama ish inspired it's like these wide white pants very loose shirts but human hearings live large clutches and the way that they're the way they're posed is outside of an airplane on a dock. What does that one frame tell me about that client that single frame then once I understand the story, if I am given any situation if I am given power a power outlet covered in fine, what is the story I'm going to tell with that? What is that our mind telling ellie what is the storm until next to a tree? What is the story? How can you pose them in those elements to convey an entirely different feel? Once I started asking myself these questions digesting the answers I could then approach issue as an entirely different photographer you were on fire, I was single, I should go into like deep diving, deep water diving my lungs of course prince but there are but here's the thing like other people. And again, these are not necessarily like my steel. Oh, banana republic does an exceptional job selling the idea they sell the lifestyle. J crew doesn't sell clothes, it's on the lifestyle they sell the idea of your s perry's and the cuff khaki jeans or the cuff khaki pants. You know, the triple layered shirts and the detachable watch with the silver face. I study this stuff because they're not there, sir. In which is what we do is photographers were not selling our photos were selling the idea of this lifestyle for selling this idea of a wedding day. That's what we're really selling and for you to think otherwise, especially the beginning is it is a disservice. Okay, so I started studying this way. I started thinking this way, and then, um, this might need someone to believe that I just was, like already awesome. Gray, I'm ready. In addition to these types of things. I was second shooting with greg, and I was trying to make myself stand out and push myself, and I was watching him. I had been in apprenticed, if not to him other photographers for at least twelve, fifteen weddings. This one wedding he comes to me and he I don't know if he's trying to make me better photographer or he just stuck one of the two and he says you know what jasmine why don't you pose them did not see that coming was not mentally prepared and I was like you turn your head and I was like and he's like go ahead and eat first clients like you know what I'm going to get a different angle he did it so professional to I'm gonna get a different angle in jasmine's unopposed and I was like okay guys okay I practiced you know this was like this was like my rocky moment this was like my nikki was the same from micky ward this is my micky ward moment I was ready knock out I was like okay okay that's what happened? Okay, you guys blank blank blank and I was like okay, just bring her in can you kiss her great okay, okay. I'm just grasping at straws like dip her yeah, your faces everybody collected was like no not the dip I did the dip y'all and like not the cool like ghetto did like dear baby it was like the temp like the nineteen eighty seven uncle bob dip that's what I did so yeah posing always hard and greg was so gracious you let me run with it for a little bit I took it back I step up to the side and I was like you I screwed it up you had the opportunity to get your own portfolio pieces and you screwed it up so well I'm still here I'm still breathing at the time I was totally bummed, but from that point on I was always always thinking because as a second shooter I noticed maybe he notices to cane little axe I do what I do and I'm doing that well, great awesome whoo! All of a sudden some of that can you take control can take the reins? Are you ready for that? If you're not constantly in a state of being ready to be a first shooter, then maybe you're not ready to be it for a shooter definitely okay, practice comes with your friends practice comes with your spouse. Either way, just practice that is it. And on lee and definitely only it do we have questions right now ashley has a question question quick it's kind of technical though, but it was back at your last leid um and this is for all of my friends have been time myself. How in the world do you get the creamiest skin but at the same time there so sharp that they look like they're glistening like twilight, you know, did you just say edward calling because if yukio laure thick, smooth scam but then there is still so sharp in like glistening and I'm like, oh my god, what am I missing? It's eighties glass is one hundred percent now everything I had set up until this point has anybody ever heard me mention anything about a fixed lens? Not yet. I didn't I didn't shake things up with fix lenses until mid two thousand seven, which is not even on the radar at this point, I'm still shooting in two point eight I wanted to take my pictures to a different level, and you can really only do that when you start shooting, you know wider than an f two point five wider than f two people talk about skin tones you want to shoot, people ask people and people leave like smarmy comments like kick back with this skin retouching, you know? And so I read all the commented on my block and I approve them and I'm like one I never have used you skin retouching once once, and that was in your one I've never used in retouching ever when you shoot wider than an f to skin looks amazing, even skin that might even be pockmarked, it still looked so good and that's what you get by shooting wide open as far so yeah, so when you're shooting a couple I can shoot a couple if they're not both looking at me they're both like looking at each other and I focused like right in between on the bride's I and if she's roughly cause she's in heels the same height as her groom shooting them at a one point to you you're gonna get the crispy as buttery skin tones ever and they're gonna be look like they're far removed from their background even if they're only standing four feet away from the wall that's just with aperture you were there because I just are you keeping it real I e I should do I should create action called jasmine star skin retired I wouldn't because that's not what I do and quite frankly I don't care people who people who are on twitter or on facebook holler back at me if you have one if this guy's ardently adhere to this type of shooting style I don't talk trash is what it is one hundred percent yes, thank you did you have a question? Yeah it's gonna off track but you mentioned something about you know the hater comments and I was watching how you deal with that because I know like you know as you get more popular there's gonna be more haters and without you approve those or how you respond to those well it's kind of complex uh yeah it goes back definitely to repel or connect or attract, I know, because of the shoes I wear what I don't hear my voice, I know that a lot of things that I can't control really bother people, and I'm sorry for that, but at the same time I don't care. There are people who talk a lot about me and who has been so negative you can create, um, like black holes like on the internet. Yeah, so you block out certain names like on twitter and anybody who ever mentions them doesn't ever appear in your feet, so if I don't see it, it doesn't exist to me, so people tell me people are talking ish and that's fine people are out on forum saying whatever they want to say about me, I won't I won't talk about it. I won't I'm doing I'm too busy being me, so if you like it great and if you don't that's equally is great. I am not the on ly person to be criticized because criticism comes from your dearest friends from your loved ones and it comes from anonymous people and it's, that level of criticism for my family criticizes me, I take it and they try to learn from it if somebody who once leave an anonymous comment on my vlog totally like that's like piss man win you know I don't I don't need I don't need I don't need that in my life I don't hear it I don't read it it doesn't get posted you know like in on my blonde I am castro and it is cuba it is what I d'oh you know I am not saying I am not paying I paid a lot I pay a lot of money to have that on a private server every single month we paid a ton of money I'm not paying for you to talk trash about me or my client's sweetie get right that's not happening this is not so don't pay attention don't listen do you what you d'oh it's it if they like you great if they don't like you that's great too and don't like it. And the thing is I think the thing that breaks my heart is that I see other photographers perpetuating for supporting the anonymity for the negativity on the web we need to call ourselves is an industry to a higher standard and never support that's have a stuff because people stop listening co electively to what these people are saying they go away they're only doing it for a rise clearly if they had put that amount energy into loving on other people or investing in their own business giving back to people who don't have it they would be far better people because of it but that is not my thing just don't listen to continue doing what I do if you don't like it, stop looking you come to my block, you subscribed to my twitter feed you subscribe to the fan page stop all that if you don't like what I'm saying that's it okay? Okay that's! Why? Well, clearly you guys like I'm here, but yeah, but for others who don't it's fine it's totally, totally fine that's a stand. So good. One question. Okay, um I just want to get shot here to session everyone hey says your energy isn't affections I way have you have to stay with the accent and it is infection. Anything really? You know, dear smooth operator way totally, totally don't know such ancona was a student here. Yes has passed our shop, so I also just want to let you know chase is online and he told me to tell you that he's gonna look look you up later on this evening, he's working right now good shot out to chase into kate and all that whole crew created a creative life that she started like they have been the impetus for me being here and when I was scared and I didn't want to do and I wanted to back out of the first project, I will never forget what chase told me and it was in a text and I save that tax and he says I want you to take the mold I want you to break it and that was the thing to actually push me over to actually do the project like that's become a new mantra two thousand ten was out taking a mold and breaking it and I believe that if that's what we all can do as an industry well then let's rock it out so great just when chase sent you that tweet it was like it was a barbecue barbecue there get coming in like I'm at a barbecue and I was actually the way to a project god that is amazing he's a barbecue working way so excited it was shared in that moment a moment ok posing questions are we on question? Yeah, we are questions we have like maybe ten minutes because I would love to jump into high books my my first wedding which I think is going to move us in that direction but anthony I guess uh q was in question bring it on do you shoot for albums for like a layout for an album at all? Like when you're thinking are you just capturing moments and put it out there or do you have like this would make a good cover page or, you know, flow in the album uh well my answer is predicated on my approach to wedding albums if I did pre design then yes, I would be I don't do pre design I have my clients choose their images for their wedding album, so even if I shot for the wedding album, they probably wouldn't pick the pictures that I you know imagine what I do a strategically approach our wedding and bridal party pictures because I do know that for me those usually all go on a page and so if I did some family over here and something will be here and I would think if they put them on a page and it would look awkward those are the on ly pages that I'm really thinking about in the back in mine if I could do them all at one location that's perfect because the lighting is the same the background is the same and I think it looks collectively like nicer on a page that's only time thinking about other than that I'm shooting the way the date as it involved any other questions ladies uh yeah maybe we could do on two questions. Okay um question woz from jenna danielle how do you keep your clients moving into a pose? You want what are some things you say? Oh it's about action so actually maybe you should ask this question me like five months because I think my answer will be better than so so basically if okay, so if I say I want in my mind I want a picture of oh my I usually for engagement session um a bride and groom laughing well how does that happen? You know I mean I'm not that funny it's not and I hate looking pep even for todd say just looking eachother and laugh that's the cheap that's the cheap way good those laughs don't look riel and they know they're getting photographed on nobody like this which is a fake laughs right so how do you get them into laughing on their own will I'll try to be funny but it doesn't really work all the time so the action if I know the action if I know the photo I need to work backwards in the photo the photo is them um our arms hung around his neck laughing that's the photo let me work back to that so then I would say um can we work with the cameras? Can we move a little bit and j d can I borrow you so thiss works great on a wedding day like like great like I can like get through poses really quickly because I'm working with you stand right there because I'm working with jd and so jd becomes my grown and I become the bride which camera would be better? Is this camera are we ok? Ok good jacob right? Cody jacob smiles waiting day to get I remember bridal certain bridal party members and how did I remember cody cody from the simple life on the disney channel I don't know never jacob I just remember this my bible story and miles miles davis uh you play those little games in your mind okay, so if I want to pose no I mean if I wanted the picture the picture in the back of my mind is there so then the poles would be I was okay guys just stand next to each other why I want us to walk to me and as you guys want to me jazz man I want you to throw your hand your arm around j d's neck and as you're walking I just want you guys to look at each other mac sometimes I would be doing this is twice okay, so I'm walking with him I already have the settings I'm talking to them as I have the camera no, I want to do this now just take a couple steps towards me I'm pacing with them backwards, facing with them backwards and I'm talking now I want you to do this now throw your arm around his neck awesome looking each other put your heads together and this oh my god they hit heads that our noses there like what just happened we feel silly and stupid all of that reaction gets that sincere laugh, so it isn't the post it's the action getting into the pose that then results in the type of image that you want that will start attracting the type of client that you want does not make sense talking trash. So you made again make them safe again really, really do it again for real, like legit. Okay, so the action okay now that's that so the action so the action will get them into the pose, which would result in the image and the image, then results in attracting the type of client that you want to get. So people were asking again. So again, backwards from the end picture to what you want now, here's the beauty of it. If I want to have that same result, I could do that with eight different clients, and I will get eight different photos because people love differently, people react differently. Some people a little bit more focused and in the post doesn't work and some people a little bit more goofy, and nobody know girls, girls like pictures of them laughing, they don't like pictures of them he hiding the gun that you never make, the edit the last the scrunch knows the silliness. That makes the edit so here we go again if I had him doing it out have I only time do it twice because if I haven't do it more than twice make them feel like they did it wrong so hey guys for me can you do it again because mabel block within those five steps that I have for them to do that I better mail at least one that I think that's a standard we should at least strive tio so again they would walk like ok guys now you guys know what's happening john the canceling your armor here no disruptors him walk off okay no three or more in his neck I'm shooting the whole time they were bringing in rio. Now this is an opposing us right? This is posing for business you guys want to oppose it was just posing class of banning cantrell she like rocked it out I heard it's ok, thank you so much. E o okay, so after watching you do a wedding you know every single person's name in that entire room you were like oh, I was like I've known that guy for six months okay? But you don't talk about marketing that's marketing that's free market you people who in a room of people and you could say billy bob, can you come here like billy bob fails like you paid attention to billy bob and of course you know there are bridal parties with twelve girls tall guys I can't possibly remember all but if you could remember three or four any position okay you can always say stand next to ariel you don't know her name but you might know ariel they san next area okay great little move them all in always find out who the best man is and remember his name like it's get your best friend that day those types of things make the biggest difference in regards only deposing the marketing and the minute you could put somebody at ease is the minute that those pictures look like they're comfortable that's that helps a lot ok ok oh another question well maybe this place really well so I look like I did it all on purpose how was the emotion conveyed? Because again we move them in work backwards from the picture how is the emotion conveyed and what I wanted in that picture with me and jd was happiness silliness, fun, laughter but you can't just say three arms and start laughing because again that doesn't work how was the emotion conveyed if you could figure out how then I think that capturing it becomes very easy. Yes do you think part of what you're selling is the experience of your interaction as much of the final pictures if not more really I believe that my business my business is eighty percent business and twenty percent photography and within that business aspect a large part of it when my plane's show up to an engagement session and jd can now attest might the main thing the ice dresses again and again I expect nothing from them my goal I tell him my goldman engagement session is for you guys to have a good time it came I tell them it's my job to make you look good so don't think you have to come here don't expect y'all to be models like I don't expect that I'm like we're gonna have a good time and and having a good time girls look beautiful guys look cool we're gonna roll with it I take all pressure from them because people come in expecting me a lot of questions that I get asked him clients who have booked me and we didn't have a meeting they ask so do you know do all your clients get loved? Yeah oh it is my job to make every client look feel and know that they are beautiful that they are empowered that it is my brand I'm sharing with them I have a hard time with photographers who don't post everything that they dio you know it's us I have been both a photographer and I have been photographed I I don't like how it fuels not knowing that that person isn't proud enough to put the pictures across the board I would never make a paying client ever feel that either they didn't do a job or I was off my day it's my job to walk away from that shoot telling myself I have enough for their sideshow I have enough for the gallery again and again if you do not you continue to keep on shooting at that shoot until you say I am proud to stand by my work and I know that I know that I'm gonna give you a piece of me you give you a piece of brand think that's our job really do very they're very very, very much a believer that okay boom okay let's go to booking my first wedding booking my first wedding um people ask how it happened as I was going through the process very much like him I was going to approach it to where I built my business shooting a lot with other photographers starting my portfolio and starting at a mid level photographer I always thought that I would be starting at three thousand thirty five hundred that's just what I thought why? No idea just to me thinking this is how I roll because I didn't want to be the bottom barrel photographer okay um so then I get this email that throws everything out the window and this email is from a girl who says hi my name is christina I received your information from david j oh, my god. Oh, my god. Okay, so david shea is my wedding photographer david j also charges ten thousand dollars to in david jason giambi for all what do you think my first wedding going to be nine thousand dollars oh, my god! I've done made it ok, this is what I think it is stupid, ridiculous, ludicrous whatever I get into the e mail when they then come to find out that I received a referral because what she got was a thousand dollar budget and other thousand dollars she wanted ten hours of coverage. She wanted this she wanted an engagement session and a second photographer that's what you wanted now my option was then to say no sorry my prices are three thousand dollars or not shooting I wanted that wedding more than I wanted l a gear pump shoes I wanted some shoes little ghetto girl I'll never ever, ever, ever get ever forget also wanted michael jackson um years michael jackson alley gears with the rhinestones and the straps all over them god, I wanted to so badly and I begged my mom my mom thought I was crazy two years later around christmas time at pick and safe what are they selling? Michael jackson rhinestone shoes what did I get underneath the tree? I walked around with these like gold washes thinking I was can I wanted that wedding more than I wanted the alligator pumps, she was more than he wanted. The michael jackson shoes I wanted the whole time. What would then was my option? My option was to take the wedding at her budget, but then it forced him to have a serious conversation about where I was trending with my business. And this is the conversation that everybody should be having regard support you are, if you like. We were at great perfect if you don't like where you're at. Great. Perfect. The conversation should be had. This is how we started the business. I am not saying it is right. I'm not saying it's wrong it's simply how it went down and I'm really happy with the decisions that we made along the way moving forward. We're tough a little bit about pricing. This is actually we're gonna be ending the day and tried as much as possible pad the end of this course with, um missy. Yeah, great. We're doing really well, right. Thank you. I'm so glad to see this right here. This dynamic, this happens on a daily basis. J d tells me what I'm supposed to dio where I'm supposed to be, because if not, I just see a spinning top, okay, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna take questions from booking my first wedding and then we're going to get into the pricing correct okay but I have a feeling that a lot of these questions going to come from high priced it okay tell her baby okay great so I feel like this is like fragmented like sorry this is like a simon says ask questions so are there any questions up until this point god we're talking about alec your pump shoes who pushes on that sorry I feel like we're hanging out having a cliff like do not purpose like the nancy drew books shoes what nancy does she go in the cave or dishes on the no no so so again a lot of what I'm saying is out on the web deal I mean for those of you who have followed me you will have known that david j had to be my first wedding and you will have known that I shot four thousand dollars but what you don't know was everything belie ing the surface because I have to understand living my life or or sharing on the web it is really important but at the same time I have to control the brand after control people are seeing I don't want all of it out in such a capacity so I feel like it would be a disservice and this arena it's a different arena I'm under the creative live brand and yes I do know that my brides are watching this I know that I will be out on the table, but it's good to know that I just bit and I don't care and it's good to know that what I'm saying now is what I'll say to their face I'm gonna talk about my costs, a lot of fixed costs are going to know that, but what they have to know is just like people buy or subscribe to the creative life feel vibe, whatever is what those clients are buying from me, it is not just the fact that I show up and shoot they're buying the experience they're buying to trust their bike, very hints and second shooter all of that stuff totally goes into what they're doing, so I'm okay with it so questions up into this so so the big question there hang did you take the wedding? Well, get after break, okay waiting, but I'm gonna get I'm gonna talk to you about what I do, what how I made myself feel better about it? Um she wanted everything and so I came back to her. They said, well, these are my package is and what my packages were, according to her e mail, this is how my business started, I said you'll get the ten hours you'll get the two shooters, you'll get the engagement session war a thousand dollars if you want the disc he'll be an extra five hundred dollars had two packages of the time. What packages? Like you know they come your price boom that's what? I charge so that's how it starts, what I needed to do with street value on the tangible items that she would possess. Now I do think that the industry is changing to such a dramatic degree. Do I really want my client's tohave the disc? Do I filled as safe with them having the disc? Yes, but do I think I would be doing my clients a better service by providing them, uh, in the cloud solution? Absolutely that's my business, I think that's gonna round out my brand if they want the disc that's great, but I want to have them and haven't had the ability to access their online site whenever and wherever. I want to be accessible on ipads. Iphones I wanted to share with it. I want them to have the confidence that there photos aren't going anywhere. All of that stuff is coming for me in my business in the next couple months and I'll be super excited, sure, but on the block I'm transitioning from my current proofing solution to a new company. But I can't talk about that right now because well one I want to make sure that it's good and I could stand by it and I'm okay with it and use it before I'm out there like it's the best thing so that's where we're going but yes I took the wedding I place value on the tangibles place value on the things that I wanted to and lucky for me she opted to go for the fifteen hundred we're talking a little bit more about that but don't go anywhere yeah okay I wanna tell you a comment from actually um theresa who said thank you for being so ron honest and she wanted you to know that your dress is fabulous thank you it's really hard to tell if it's someone created life yeah, you know, I really I fashioned a fashion meltdown because I've already warned this dress and I feel like I can't wear dresses you've already warns you know like oh, that sucks you want to go up again? What about new beginnings? Okay, thank alfa that you wear new beginnings this represents creative lives like I know weird god, I shouldn't say this stuff somebody saw me it's gonna be sorry you appreciate comments on fashion I have a question from callum w and we're just kind of give a new random questions here not necessarily specific imposing but yeah, no that's better um, do you still hire a photographer now and again? Take pictures of you and j d do you get in front of the camera to remind yourself higher clients feel we just did that's true, you're three months ago, I paid and I paid legit prices for it. I don't want a homely hook up because you're treated like a homie I want to treat like a plan. I wanna have that experience that's what I pay other people for I mean that's what people pay me for I do believe in like jd is super super super chill, always behind the scenes never wants me for the camera and so I have been wanting wanting to take pictures because I said, we're not going to be this age forever, and this is like, it is in the happiest we've been I wanna remember this moment, just like no, no, no, like it's, fine, we'll just set up a self timer, which is how we take our photo like no let's, just try something different, like, you know, and so then christmas way started having the christmas conversation like in november because I'm notoriously difficult to shop for and he said, what do you want, I just want pictures of us, okay, and he finally relented. He knows, like, happy wife, happy life. You know, I was totally the contentious woman and he's like, oh, god it's better to live on the corner of a roof and liver. The continuous women. He told me you knew this was, like, fine. We'll get the photos. So I paid for the shoot, had a shoe. I love my pictures. My birthday was a couple days ago, and jd brought me a locket, and he put one of our photos in it. So yeah, I appreciate photos and cab experience. Absolutely. I think everybody should get in front of the camera. I think that you should pay for it because you appreciate them more. Totally so, yes, question that people keep repeating them here, so they really want to know? Um, but bev has asked about just wondering if you get model releases for each person in the wedding or can you talk? Teo, do you ever need my releases are get posting his partridges as part of okay, so is part of the contract the client, which I know so legally. I know it isn't possible to contract for another person, but as part of the contract I have listed in the contract that their guests haven't understanding that a professional photographer will be there, and there is the propensity of images or likeness of their guests to be posted online. If there is guest who does not like that, it is their responsibility to let me know that's what they're contracting for. So I can't say all guests are covered by the contract because that wouldn't hold up in court, but the onus will be on them. And if you know somebody did get online, I could look back in the country you were supposed to tell me, I didn't know things like that. I recently did wedding back in october, and the client this I know this question will come up someone address it now. The client didn't want to sign the contract by releasing their images to go online, and then I told the coordinator because it was sent to me from a coordinator. This always happens when coordinator send the weddings. The clients are choosing me based on the endorsement by the coordinator, not necessarily that they're looking for jasmine stars a photographer I like, I love love appreciate love the referrals, but I don't necessarily know it's the best fit, and so I have to kind of, like, siphon it for a little bit um, and so I let her know, quite honestly, I don't I think that this is going to be a good fit, how I drive my business. Is having an online presence, and I do believe that the clients will benefit because of it, and I stated it like that I said, I don't think that will be good fit thes how are using pictures I would only ever chief pictures that would only ever drive in a certain way, if there if many come to find out that they were worried because his family is very connected, the chinese consulate and he didn't want anybody in his family represented in all incapacity without his knowing once I knew that we got back on the same page and I said, listen, police on the contract as is, but if there's any pictures of wedding guests in larger, I knew that it wasn't his immediate family, so I don't really post lots of pictures of like guests hanging out. I said if by change there happens to be a picture of a family member of the chinese consulate in the background, I would have arrived immediately, even send him to slide show in advance to have approval once you have those conversations, but it doesn't make sense for me to take a wedding. Now I understand that there are celebrity weddings and I get it, I don't want to be a celebrity photographer, I want to shoot people, I want to shoot weddings or people who want me and j d there who could afford a sabbath? There will appreciate what we do that's what I want so it's not really a factor so much of me not being able to post pictures because that's really what's gonna happen the clients of the in advance ok, I have a question personally, yeah, I would like to know what happens when you're starting out and you you have people, you know, people book weddings in advance like, well, so you're starting out and your people are asking you if you'll do their wedding, like not this summer, but next summer. Like, how do you know howto price that when you're growing and it's so far off into the future that you know your prices will kind of increase by then, I always view my services like stop, preferably like google or facebook knows you know, my favorite book ever allows investors I would be like facebook stock, you know, so clients who I don't book winning more than a year in advance so clients know that and clients who were charging who are wanting to book me for in october two thousand twelve wedding I will send them an e mail day thank you so much, here's a new idea of what I charge, and I asked them where they're getting married so that I can press it accordingly, here's an idea of what I will charge but please contact me in september of october of this year we'll make sure and get you walked in I'll make sure that you have top priority but I don't have those conversations because I don't know where I'll be in a year there's so many things that happen in a year and a half and I just want to make sure I never, ever want to feel tied down and if somebody really wants me as their wedding photographer the weight I know that I am in the minority I know that but I just feel like it hasn't done me wrong ever and the people that wait for me are like my best clients ever so I do feel like it works both ways advantages to both parties good questions uh your first destination what way did um if it was that or this you go for anyone in that you're really eager to shoot a great venue if you have a gorgeous couple and they you know, get some amazing photos that could really help build valuing and portfolio are you ever tempted to give like a concession for your pricing? Teo land that wedding like you have some amazing venue in bali, for instance I think that's a totally personal decision the question isn't should I give the concession the question becomes will this particular wedding move me farther than a wedding that I could take here in my market because you are considerably less profitable if you are not only charging the same if you're giving them a concession to go and shoot it because it's not one day it's not two days it's a minimum of three and a half days to get anywhere like on the east coast or beyond that. And so if you take up the time that you're away from the studio and away from what you're doing and you divide that out over the lesson, the price you're inherently less profitable than you would be taking a wedding in san diego for your full package price that could be an equally is cute couple that then becomes question and it becomes where you want to move your word you want to hear about your your business? Do you want to become a destination photographer? If that is then the case, then you're making very different strategic decisions. If you only want to make a consideration for fifteen to twenty percent of your businesses destination, then you want to be strategic because you don't want to get referrals within that same price structure at the bali wedding at a concession counter intuitive I am okay sorry for anything like that that okay, that works okay, so again I'm not saying I'm not saying that concessions should not be made my photographer made a concession, but what was this concession? He was in control of it, he said. I'll shoot it, get married on a wednesday, homeboy booked a wedding on saturday, shot my wedding on a wednesday was back home to shoot a wedding on that saturday to me when when win win, win, win win was happy, he was happy he wasn't gonna shoot another wedding on saturday, you know? And not everybody gets a shoot like a groom is handsome isn t so does getting get out, rock the convertible any convertible, right? Right. So like that, that kind of thing, I think works no, not every client will do that. I knew that I knew that I am like rarity, but I did. You don't know until it's out there. Yes, anthony, uh, for example, say you take a wedding that's below your for some reason, like it's, just a friend or I don't know what the situation is, but you may take a wedding that's less than ideal pricing. Would you ever say in the contract like this is sort of a no quote deal? Meaning you can't refer your friends at this price is like that. Oh, I'll take a referral any day, but at that point, I don't care that you can say it's always good to say if you could keep this between us but, you know, I mean, they're not gonna tell their sisters what they're not gonna not tell their sister like I didn't go out on the web, and david j got you gave me this, can I? You know what? Well, I didn't do that, but I told my sister and I keep I can't impede my sister from not saying to another girl. What? Itwas the media? If this girl was willing to get married in hawaii on a wednesday, he might reconsider to do the same agreement. I have no idea I can't speak on his behalf, but here's the thing if if I had a referral for, like, you know, I don't know at the time I'm shooting weddings for two thousand dollars and I get a thousand dollar referral say, and this person says, can you show my wedding for a thousand dollars? I'm like no, I'm two thousand dollars and that's why I want to stay in and then we do it politely or whatever? What does she think she thinks that her best friend got us thinking deal? She got the good stock. She bought the yahoo when I was at five cents, you know? Yeah. Wow, I just that was stupid. And I tried turning all savvy. I should have said something cool. Yahoo way to go anyway. So, yeah, it looks good for your business because you're growing in charging more. Looks good for her friend because she made a better investment if you want teo, you know, reconsidered the natural prerogative, but I wouldn't say like, don't send me any referrals, you know, it's just be confident in what ur own it. And if you made a new agreement before and you weren't trying to change your trial starting to change your business, be honest, they can't hit you for honesty. I think we'll take one more question always. Then we go to a break. Yeah, yeah, well, I just think that I'd want to pad pricing by a little bit more time because I think that's when a lot of questions going to start coming. So how about we do one quick one question if it's a great I'm just getting and then way okay, being a power chipper apart like calling a shot, a lot of question and it's all about you today, where are you every day? I'm just kidding. Uh, so people have been asking a little bit more about the contracts to so very g was can you cover just highlights of what goes into a contract our or maybe recommendations of where people should go? Yes. Where did you get your first high? Well, well, I'm you know, I went to law school, so I felt and my favorite classes contracts how bored I am by the party in a box I know like I'm so intricate. Oh, my god. Seriously, it drives me nuts. I love judge judy and the people I work at jan. I'm just like no way because what they deal with, just like, you know, one hundred percent as they do a contractual law that's what they're doing and I'm like, intrigued. I was like, all straight tell you every mistake was lovett. Um, as faras contracts go, okay, writing my own and other people have contracts out on the web that was able to pull heat, pull pieces from if you were out, like, on your own. I know that there's, a photographer in san diego, but anyway, john morella's and he sells a contract template and there's also, um, um, I just forgot the need of it. You can tell us later, yeah, I'll get it. I'll get the information on my net, but the things of the main things that you want to contract our contract timelines for when the clients, when I'm responsible for the client images a year after the wedding dates, um, I'm not responsible for the wedding images any any longer. Um, how the album process works, I want to make sure that they're on the same page as I am before I want them to know that they having me shoot the wedding, I will have right to the images, reproduction rights they will see they have the potential of seeing them in any type of publication, any type of marketing, although I don't do marketing, but if they happen to be featured on the block, they are letting me, I have permission to do that. I talk about the disk and their rights as users of the disks. If they opt to buy the disc of the digital negatives, I talk about what I'm responsible for. I talk about, god forbid, should something happen on the wedding day, what did that situation looked like? And I talked about the day of me being sick where I talk about, like, a week before me being sick, those types of conversations, uh yeah, just a quick. I have a question earlier. You mentioned a deposit and quickly change your burbage to a retainer. And somebody had asked a question about why you changed that. Okay, so the reason why the verb injured they use is a deposit is refundable. A retainer c is not it's, just the legal term. You know, I love me some contracts, so make sure that any time a client will email means they had just a century to deposit. I will respond always because e mails are now legal admissible evidence in court to say I responded with thank you so much for the retainers feet. When I get it, I'll let you know or whatever the case may be, always refer to it in that context in the contract it is listed on lee and ever as the retainer fee cover your butts. Yes, absolutely. I think, um, you could buy contracts from photographers. Tool kit or yes, something like that. Yeah, I think. That's what it's called yes. And also take it. Okay, first you combined through shoot you if you shoot you that's. Really? So these are all types of things again. If you're on a forum. Put that question out, or look at the archives, goto a form archive, goto p archive and hype in contract. Sometimes people will put copies of their contracts out there and it's good just to use his reference point things like that and think, thank goodness what a contract is for me is just a way to never get into, like approaching adversarial e it's. Just a list of expectations on my end. If those claims agree to those expectations, then it's ok, we're fine everybody's happy it's not like, let me tell you there's something called copyright you can't do this it's like listen, this is what I want from you. Just please respect that. This is, you know you, but it's my work and as a division of that, I'm cool with you having the disk. I'm cool with you reproducing it. You want to use it, don't put it on online gallery and try selling it. You know, like these air. Just certain things that you list in your contract was to ensure that goes on the same page.