Guest: Dr. Terry Wahls
Terry thanks for thanks for taking time to come in and talk we've got a studio audience here who's really excited when they found out that you're going to be coming on you've become quite the celebrity centre a ted talk tell us about your mitochondria tells about about the things you've learned okay, so presumably those people have heard my story with progressive ams I wouldn't I wouldn't go that far wanted to give us the thirty second we've got a few thousand people on who may or may not have heard of you so I have secondary progressive of us spent four years at to recline wheelchair despite seeing the best people in the country taking the latest newest drugs yeah and that's what I got in the wheelchair and spent the next four years and so inclined wheelchair I started reading the basic science of research re teaching myself uh brain biology immunology ah lot of basic science on as reading about the basic science model animal models for parkinson's huntington's lou gehrig's disease an...
d emma's and I saw all of those that the mighty khan you were sending signals to the brain cells to die too early leading to shrinkage of the brain cells on early damage on that basis I decided the most important thing I could do would be to resuscitate and rejuvenate my mitochondria um and uh accelerate quickly through a very intensive program nutrition for my mitochondria I was able to get up out of the wheelchair, walk freely throughout the hospital and even by eighteen miles with family on now I'm doing clinical trials, testing my protocol in others with marvelous results thus far that are very exciting on we have a book coming out the walls protocol uh this coming spring in march that goes over all of this and more detail. Now back to your question, dave what are mighty khan really? So one half billion years ago uh, bigger bacteria engulfs smaller bacteria that were capable of extracting energy more efficiently from the environment in those smaller bacteria were the forerunners for a magic, huh? Andrea on because the mitochondria allowed these cells to get food mohr efficiently more effectively, then were able to evolve into multicellular organisms and then into animals on and then, you know, eventually into mammals into primates and then in tow us but all of us are very dependent on these mitochondria to extract and manage energy for ourselves. And so whatever disease you have, we know that improving the health of your mitochondria we'll have a very significant impact on improving the health of your organs and they're full of you that's a pretty great description I've also had mitochondrial dysfunction and done as much as I could in the class in here so far has heard me mention a teepee and mitochondria the wall's protocol though is pretty unique and that in addition to nutrition and things like coconut oil now you also used the electrical stimulation wei have lots of things so uh yes electrical stimulation of muscles was part of the retraining program oh and uh briefly that's taking two electrodes applying them over the muscles and you put it in a particular way so there over the called the motor points and you apply a direct current so you can use a battery operated device and dial up the current eso is enough current it'll feel sort of tingly like bugs calling and then begins to, uh be painful the muscle contracts and to keep dia leah to get us a vigorous of a contraction as you want on a train people to have a volitional or that is voluntary contraction at the same time that there's an electrically driven contraction and so weii designed a very specific uh exercise program and actual simulation program that is very specific to that individual and we over the course of our of our clique of trials we gradually progressed as people's capacity improves. Is this a kind of stimulation that might be beneficial for someone who doesn't have progressed a progressive neuro degenerative disease you know actually yes there are a bunch of studies using normal select will stem in heart disease advanced heart failure, advanced chronic lung disease, rheumatoid arthritis osteoarthritis was even now casey lung cancer so I think there's every reason to think that for the person's become de conditioned this is away teo begin reconditioning those muscles reconditioning uh it improving aerobic capacity you know, uh this has been used for people who had strokes five, seven, ten years out for the arm or the leg tio start doing your most electoral stimulation and improved functional use of that limb it's also been used now for kids with cerebral palsy who have a lot of stiffness and rigidity and that's been quite helpful for those kids as well. I think this is definitely a, uh very very useful technology. What would happen if he took a healthy adult who exercises regularly and you started using it on them? Well, this is what the athletes do it. So if you go watch the olympians you'll see a lot of the olympians walking around with their electrodes on and steaming their muscles. This is certainly what people who are bodybuilding for ah bodybuilding competitions they'll often do normal electrical stim to beef up their muscles you know and from the athletic standpoint it's a great way to beef up your muscles without utilizing any of the banned chemicals. So it's it's very popular but I have used one form of of stimulation toe add an inch of vascular pumped my bicep without lifting anything heavy which was shocking but literally but yeah, yeah um and yet, in our experience, people we've had a few people find that the east end was just too uncomfortable and they could not enter the study for that reason, but s o we had two people who just couldn't take it said no, this is that from a s so far in the other twenty who are in the study and found that to be very useful, they find it to be, well, comfortable might not be quite the right word, but certainly quite acceptable if you put on your futurism hat in ten years, will we see people using this prophylactically to prevent the likelihood of something happening, a neurological tune up from east m or from your other protocols? Well, um, I certainly think, uh, the people who are excuse me trying to prevent aids related loss of muscle mass absolutely that will happen. I think people who are diagnosis say with a progressive neurologic disorder, I want to maintain their muscle mass as long as possible, they would probably start using it right away. Now, hopefully we'll get more and more folks, uh, aware that this is really a lifestyle issue, and when they get their neurologic diagnosis, whatever they are that they will immediately maximized the health of their mighty khan reum, maximize their nutrition, uh, and not have us much progression of their neurologic problems to begin with what I that's what air? The top four things that you would recommend people do now toe upgrade their mitochondrial function eat more greens, eat more sulfur rich vegetables buries some I have a lot of healthy fats like g coconut oil haven't overnight fast that's at least twelve to sixteen hours preferably everyday but many times a week uh and cut out all the, uh sugar processed carbs get them completely out of your diet the only carbs you get should be from mel not starchy vegetables and maybe a couple cups of berries that means no bananas, no oranges know cantaloupes no watermelon well, you know I had to be extreme, so I'd say as a very special treat that would be a nice special treat for a rare occasion. But if you're really trying to maximize your mind keandre, you want to be a nutritional ketosis which means fruit is really a problem celtic out of nutritional ketosis if you have, uh, some berries and I would love that too just a cup, it'll be easier to stay in your ketosis is it about key tone presence or is it about nutritional ketosis? Because you can get key tones for m c t oil without being in ketosis nutritionally is that okay uh we don't know, uh that is an area of study we have a couple of cities going on here at the university, but I would try and answer that question that is a vitally important question for everyone listening to this right now my assumption without the data that I'm dying to get from your studies is that I can tell that there's at least cognitive benefits from having the types of m c t oil that I use I focus better I have more energy my e g scores are higher when I'm consciously putting myself in office state the alpha state is higher and I have mohr um more longevity I can keep it up longer brain wise in order teo uh in orderto just have that energy but I've done it with a nutritional ketosis and I've done it with just m c t even after eating a few grapes which are going to take you out of nutritional ketosis, it doesn't seem to change things well, it um these are important things to investigate and try to understand that will make gaps observation though in one sense, you know, studies over a population are very interesting exciting to a scientist, but we're all unique and so the very best thing to do is be very curious about your own experience paying very close attention and realize what's happened to you matters more than what's happened in the scientific studies I mean I need to understand the mechanisms in jail to write up all these papers but what really matters is how does a particular intervention work for may uh and uh we just need to pay close attention to find that out so you're you're a trained physician and researcher correct? What are the techniques that people who are not as well trained as you might use to know whether ah health intervention not a treatment but health intervention is working for them a detailed journal uh you know, I talked to actually talk about that in my book I asked people to record their interventions and every day have a rating for the symptoms that mattered so for m s pain and energy levels are probably two most disabling problems so ask people to rate their pain one no pain ten excruciating pain one no energy ten tremendous energy and then you write down either what your e t or you added a new vitamin supplement or a new bio feedback device or nor master stim and then watch what's happening to your body uh you know, and sometimes they uh and I've had this observation I've tried some vitamins and supplements but no waste my money so I'm not observing any difference so I stop and then I could tell by the sudden withdrawal like, oh, wait a minute that it was doing something because now I'm completely exhausted uh, it's, that was my very early experimentations that it was my first resuscitation by my anaconda was picking up a variety of supplements thought they weren't helpful until I stopped them and then realized, oh, my gosh, it really had been doing quite a bit for me, and that actually was, so that was back in two thousand five when I said my wheelchair things are looking really bad and was able to do a slow down the rapidity of my decline through saliva, vitamins and supplements, and that made me a very passionate about researching, studying on, testing my own hypotheses on myself. And obviously, I've done quite well since I've gone from a kind wheelchair to biking, uh, I would say that you've, uh you've totally chosen an awesome path there it that's a critical observation for everyone listening to this, you may not feel something you do that helps you because it feels natural when things work right. When I first tried paroxetine, which, by the way, has effects on mitochondria in the brain, especially higher doses, I was so happy to get pass that ham became in the special box from europe. This was fifteen years ago, and I was having my condo issues in my brain, no doubt about it, and I took it and I was so disappointed that I didn't feel anything I took it for a couple weeks and said, what a waste of money I have expensive pee again and I could taking it and I suddenly couldn't remember words and I realise I've been having a hard time remembering words except for the last two weeks and I had the same realization you just explained so for all of you listening, if you keep a journal which is precious advice if it does your foot hurt today but not tomorrow. Why does it hurt? What did you do? Different and it's? Not just how you moved it's what? Your aid it's how you slept, it could be how you were driving is all kinds of stuff get the variables get the day to get the number like terry saying and it's amazing. Okay, that was a huge nugget of knowledge there. So the four things were eat a lot of stuff and you suggested a journalist like a fifth thing people could do yeah, yeah, absolutely a journal and pay attention absolutely pay attention and sometimes you won't tell when you make a newer intervention that it's helping you until you abruptly stop and you see the sudden change like, oh, wait a minute, I guess I did like that I guess that really was helpful so the testing protocol is try it, withdraw it, test it and then tried again even and this is ah do with bulletproof coffee too. Get on your stupid stuff. It has to be the difference and started way need to make some bulletproof tea for us. Not coffee drinkers. Okay, way can we can do that, terry. In fact, I'm working on it. I'll tell you, there are questions about even from a micro condo perspective. Green tea has some powerful things that help your mother kandra, but it also has some extra fluoride in it, which is a concern. So you use your bramante uh, that those tastes good tastes really good. And you could use ruby is too. You could choose tamer milty. Yeah, so there are a huge number of options, and furthermore, I would advocate that variety is tremendously good for us. So rotating through a variety of, uh, hot beverages to get the extra emmys in that uh uh, bulletproof coffee would be good. So, terry, I would like to offer something to you and to the audience that could be helpful, given that requirement. When I'm not having coffee, I take the mold free vanilla that I make it's actually straight vanilla powder and the butter and the m c t and I blended in hot water and I had a safe sweetener in my case I was on a tall, but if you're avoiding it and you want to add some of that into the rotation like a rich kind of vanilla even sometimes with cinnamon with riel vanilla not the alcohol stuff yes is good because of the venal lloyd receptors that cap season receptors cop station activates your vanilla receptors you get that from vanilla to which is kind of a neat thing. Are you okay with caps season and your protocol like that? The hot peppers. Ok, so for those like something have to try it's pretty delicious all well, make sure you get the right stuff for that. Just I think I have your address all send it to you and I'm so thankful you took the time to come on creative live today and and share with us so that this is just golden stuff. Well, thanks for having me. I, uh glad to do it. Questions a lot of people chatting about dr terry in our in our chat rooms today as I thought might happen. Dr terror, I have the privilege of hearing you on a couple of weeks ago driving home from creative life. I was really impressed. I was really amused you had a great sense of humor in that we've had a lot of questions come in and this one is related to a different type of auto immune diseases from grass fed jello and they're saying if somebody has an auto immune disease like vitiligo would that be reversible through diet and john spy has a follow up question saying does that also apply to elope? So uh most auto immune conditions are very much tied into environmental factors uh and if you address all those of our benefactors you can likely arrest the progression of disease and in many cases reverse thie conventional thinking is that can't reverse any of this um in no time and time again I see that people are suddenly improving including diseases like parkinson's which clearly no one expects you to improve s oh my advice to anyone with any auto immune disease is, uh address the lifestyle issues think about getting one of my books my name I might eat candy or that wall's protocol when it comes out address all those lifestyle factors and see how much recovery is possible for you uh and it on lee don't that really matters is for that individuals how much recovery will be possible but I'd be very, very optimistic thank you thank you so much and my name is ken on one of the hosts here I survive and again really appreciate your coming on my mom's sister my aunt margaret has been suffering from m s for many, many, many years and I'm excited to share um your information with her as far as well as my father who has rheumatoid arthritis and so this is really so many people impacted I'm sure everybody in this room have knowing people that could be aided by all of the work that you have done um and and are sharing um just maybe a couple more questions from sure chewbacca is curious do you technically yeah chewbacca we love the people's names in the charity miss terry dude's technically still have m s sure going I have m s I still have lesions on my uh uh cervical cord in my memory uh my guess is I'll continue to have those lesions clearly I've been able to rewire and get more and more function uh the papers are mixed there are a few reports of people with uh food sensitivities revelations that regress other papers say that the lesions on the brain stay but function improves uh what I how interpret all that is the root causes of why we develop her autoimmune problems are quite varied and sometimes those lesions are going to be fixed and sometimes those lesions will improve theirs publishing that going to be one uniform answer you know and there's one more thing I want to say I pressured mentioned earlier in our clinical trial we are recruiting patients with progressive m s there'll be a new say it's just opening up for people can walk twenty five feet eso if there are people who are interested that they could call the university to get plugged into my voicemail uh and my researches system would follow up to screen the person figure out if they would be eligible thank you so much for offering that thank you and some more questions and that I should have introduced myself dr terry my name's john but they call me j k o here jeter's been asking can dr terry talk a little bit more about how stroke patients come perhaps benefit from this therapy? Oh, yeah. Uh well stroke in traumatic brain injury on anoxic brain injury I've seen uh certainly uh those patients in clinics on usually nobody is talking about lifestyle interventions no one's talking about diet uh and that's where our focus is providing intense nutrition on rehab particularly for the if you also add more muscular still, if there's affected motor weakness I would be very optimistic that improved function it's possible when I was a medical student I was taught that brain cells could not repair could not regenerate. Now it's much more apparent that brain cells can regenerate we can create new connections. The rate limiting steps are lack of building blocks support attrition, lack of nerve girl factors so poor exercise for learning might a candle strain on dh I'm sure days between to this audience about howto resuscitate my kind you with intense nutritional and nutritional support if you provide those things, there is growth is possible in brain size and bring volume. There's every reason to be optimistic. Great. Thank you so much for that answer. We really appreciate that dr terry did mention are a rheumatoid arthritis. Oh, yeah. And alice wondering actually asked if if I could, if you could follow up on extension on that, please. So rheumatoid arthritis again, every every evidence that this is a disease where the genes might life to two. Five percent of the risk, with ninety five, ninety seven percent being dependent on food, nature deficiencies, uh, toxin exposure, uh, lifestyle factors so well. And I see this a click if I get people to go gluten free dairy free, uh, and I try hard to get them to go paleo, maximize their green soul for color. Uh, we generally see steady improvement reduction symptoms. Now. Key. And all of this is that people who are in disease modifying drug I need to stay on their disease modifying drugs as they make all these lifestyle changes. And if they have the good benefits tohave reduction symptoms, improved function, improve vitality. Then they could have conversations with their physicians about the gradual withdrawal of the disease lot of fine drugs, uh, another a disease that I have taken care of on have seen tremendous improvement is all sort of colitis and crones disease, inflammatory bottle disease where these guys and ladies have tremendous results with going on our dietary interventions. Is there any auto immune disease that you haven't seen improved with lifestyle interventions? Well, if you don't do the interventions, they don't help that's a tweet a little quote. Yeah, you know, if you don't do the interventions that's not gonna help you much in the degree in the speed of response is highly variable, so if you have more genetic, uh, snips or enzymes that increase your risk for the disease let's say I happen have thirty of the wrong snips, then it's going to take much more life lifestyle interventions much more time for me to get recovery. If I'll say the other person joe blow only has five enzymatic problems as opposed to my thirty so it's a combination of once by the burden of genetic risk. How toxic am I? How nutritionally starved am I? So in other words, how deep is the hole that I'm standing in my holes that not today, it won't take too much to get me out? Do you believe you have those thirty snips because of the epigenetic factors in your your mother and a grandmother or for some other reason well, you know actually I don't know that I have thirty that was just a number out of my way I'll pull out of here uh I'm sure I have war uh methylation problems for having grown up on the farm that was not organic uh and so I had a tremendous toxic load exposure on the other hand, the world has gotten far more polluted farm or filled with lead mercury eliza sort so I think all of us are getting a higher and higher toxic load in their form or methylation problems and therefore ah higher burden of uh epigenetic influences that are negative. Well, dr terry and in addition to our wonderful worldwide internet audience we actually do have a live audience here in the studio I know they're very anxious to get in with some questions as well. So let's take a few from them and you just introduce herself for the doctor. Hi, dr wallace. My name is mark d s and uh thank you for sharing your story in the work that you do uh just next week my sister is moving back to memphis from dallas. She has m s yeah, um her mobility has significantly decreased and we're going to start on your protocol. Oh, excellent. Is there a uh uh blood panel or list of biomarkers that you recommend start checking at the beginning and then secondly have you seen dave vibration platform will that help in a conjunction with the electoral stimulation so I haven't seen this platform I will say that there's a lot of interests here at the university on vibrational platforms to maintain muscle and bone health for people with a variety of neurological problems and I know those researchers are very very excited about what they're seeing that vibrational platform so if you have access to it yes by all means use that in terms just for reference I manufacturer in design one that's very heavy duty but designed for accessibility at home at a fifteen hundred dollar price point using the thirty hertz vibration that most the studies are if the university wants one I'd be more than pleased to donate it even anonymously that be cool I will keep that in mind that's pretty cool okay now the question about a file markers uh in m s for the conventional standpoint there are no traditional biomarkers to tell you you have that master don't have a master looking at spinal fluid in my clinical practice for everyone that I see there are some things that I like to follow on that just to let me know how inflamed that person's on the one that actually the most sensitive is a questionnaire by the medical symptoms questionnaire and I'd like to have people answer these questions and I get a numerical score and follow that score to see it fall uh, blood tests that I might do it would be a c reactive protein like to do lipids and a home assisting ba twelve fully uh and part of that is my clunker practices at the veteran's hospital we don't do any this fancy nutritional testing that function medicine docks have access to yeah like so I don't have access to that which means instead of doing any kind of fancy food allergy testing have to convince all of my patients to give me a month uh and follow basically a elimination diet on and then do some careful food reintroduction uh that's convinced folks that you don't need the blood test we just need to eat really cleanly and take out the most uh uh egregious offenders and I have extraordinary results with very minimal functions well essentially no intensive functional medicine testing do you use dr broca's uh, heart rate test for determining food sensitivities and people? Well, I have so it depends on individual on dh I have a few people been wind to go through all that work uh what I find those of most folks if I can get them to do a very clean paleo diet structured the way you know I talk greed, soul for color they do very well uh and food sensitivities are much less weird problem it's when you trying to still eat grains instilling a very uh industrialized processed foods diet that people struggled if you keep eating a lot of the highly hybridized foods, you're going to get the trouble or at least much more likely since, uh there isn't necessarily a test that you khun correlate tms with is there something that you can check to see if you're improving your mitochondria? Well, uh, yes, not very basically is your energy improving if your energy is improving your bite a condor doing better if your energy is not, uh you mighty kind, you're not doing better we follow as I said, the medical symptoms questionnaire score, it correlates very well with overall fatigue scores and so what I'll tell you and I think they would probably grew this you are an exquisite sensor, and if you pay close attention to how you're feeling, you'll be able to perceive that your energy is improving, things were going well, that means your soul, your health is improving uh or that they're stagnant or that your southern health is severely declined. Terry, this is dave, I have a question for you. Yes, it was really hard for me to learn to trust the accuracy of my own sensor and I've finally learned to do it, but it must have been maybe even harder for you because you're a medical doctor what made you learn to trust the data that's coming out of your own sense sing system because this is the biggest issue I see with people I work with well you know it's that is it a wonderful observation so I'll take you back to my recovery so in the fall of two thousand seven years and I can sit up ten minutes what you know ten, twenty feet with two canes or two walking sticks uh otherwise been a recliner reserve gravity chair I start my intervention I'm doing my east m doing all this stuff I'm walking with one kane and finally walking around the hospital slowly with a limp but no cane uh and I'm still not yet really thinking that I'm getting better because I mean I'm getting better but I'm not letting myself think about just how better I might become and I think part that had to do with the fact that you know you go through anger denial acceptance I had accepted that progressive m s is a progressive disease and you never recover so it was until the day I rode my bike around around the block that I began to think you know how better could I become like maybe it's enough time I could you know, maybe drug or maybe do a real bike ride on and that was like six months into my recovery so I think for many folks uh well maybe that's not the case anymore now that I've sort of shown that it is possible people might be ableto I believe that yes, they are improving a little sooner than I was able to believe it. One last question which is from damian I know he's had his hand up for quite a while. Damien go ahead hi dr wallace's eso I have c f s and on my journey to recovery I've had you know, talked to a lot of functional doctors and you've just been talking about toxins and what when we're journaling to try and understand if we're getting better or if we're getting worse sometimes you know it's on the functional doctors to say, well, when his toxins coming out of your body you'll feel worse um so you know, one of the really confusing things I found is that, you know, I'd feel like I'm getting worse and maybe some things are getting better and it was hard to understand, especially when you have the information information coming in um I actually getting better or am I getting worse? How would you look at that? Uh, you're right, this is it's a very complex problem when why are old people into my study? I warned them that because if you're all in the study, you have to start the study diet that day, which means they'll go through ah at least a week, maybe two or three of detox and that they're going to feel worse on dh er we keep talking them so you understand just how worse they're going to feel uh certainly by that usually by the second week they're beginning to feel better and nearly always by the third week uh and if you have c f s it did or you know frankly many types of progressive problems there may also be a component infection co infection multiple infections er and it's uh like a layering of many layers of swiss cheese that are all adding up adding to the problems and so the more comprehensively we can support you s o that yourself can improve your immune cells can improve uly teo processing my toxins can improve these self correcting nature of biology gives you the best possibility of improvement. Well, this has been fantastic and I think the audience is not just here in our studio but also online have been really connected with this for the great emotional connection with dr terry so thank you so much. But dr show before you leave us, would you just like to share some final thoughts? As for the creative live audience well encouraged you guys so if you haven't done so, please go check out my website terry walls dot com we have more information about what I'm doing and what's going on there uh, lifestyle absolutely is the biggest driver for autoimmune disease uh in chronic diseases affecting the brain psychiatric disorders and obesity, heart disease of high blood pressure. All of that it's, all about lifestyle, it's, all about the food we eat in the activities we do well, that's. Wonderful, thank you so much for joining us today. As I said, I think you've really connected with our audience really appreciate your time. Big thanks to dr terry rules.