Escape Purgatory of the Mundane With Radical Confidence with Lisa Bilyeu
Hey everybody, what's up? It's Chase. Welcome to another episode of the "Chase Jarvis Live Show," Here on "CreativeLive," the show where I unpack amazing people's brain, with the goal of helping you live your dreams. Today's guest is Lisa Bilyeu. If you're not familiar with Lisa, she was the co-founder of a little billion dollar company called Quest Nutrition. You know, those little bars? Her and her husband, Tom, sold that. And she has been on an absolute tear on all kinds of different media fronts. They've been building a company called Impact Theory, and along the way, she happened to write an incredible book about "Radical Confidence" which, whether you see yourself as someone who's confident or not, it's absolutely must read. In this particular show, we dive into some of those key cornerstone, the ideas behind it, specifically the awareness of what she calls the purgatory of the mundane. Are you asleep and having difficulty changing because your life is just okay enough? You've ma...
ybe been in those sorts of relationships before. She talks about how our belief systems either harm us or hurt us, how the willingness to trust yourself, how dreaming is actually a gamble. And what can you do to learn to bet on yourself? The idea of turning your kryptonite, the thing that you're weak at, how do you turn that into a superpower? The messy creative process and what is more important, your goal or your ego? Last but not least, one of my favorite elements of this conversation is how to have difficult conversations. When you decide that you want to change your life, there will be resistance. Resistance from other people in your life, even those people who love you dearly. Lisa articulates in perhaps the most clear way that I have ever of any guest I've had, specifically how to have those conversations. It's pure gold. I'm gonna get outta the way and let you enjoy this conversation. Yours truly, Lisa Bilyeu, all about confidence and transforming your life. (upbeat music) (audience applause)
We love you.
Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.
Oh my God, are you kidding? Chase, thank you for having me. I've been so excited to come on. I literally can't believe that I'm on your podcast. It's an honor.
Ah, it is a treat to have you. And we were just before rerecording, confessing to listeners and watchers. 'Cause we got a video feed here as well, that we're trying to remember the last time we had bumped into one another, and it was at your house, in lovely Los Angeles. It's been a while and a lot has happened, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show. You've been up to some really interesting things, and I wanna set the stage for people who may not be familiar with you or your work, the dozen listeners who might not be familiar with you. And I wanna ask you to, in your own words, tell a little backstory. How do you identify? What are some of the descriptions, characterizations of you and your work that you use such that our audience might quickly get familiar with you?
Yeah, so I'll give a quick recap. I met my husband when I was very young. I had a very traditional Greek background, but I definitely thought that I had... I was gonna make movies, big, massive dreams. And then I ended up slipping into being a very, you know, supportive housewife for my husband. And for eight years I gave up on my dreams. I gave up on my hopes and what I really wanted in life. I think because I really was taught to have the mindset of, that was gonna be my end goal. My end goal in life was going to be a wife and have kids. And so when I ended up there, I actually didn't question it. And that's what I call in the book, "Purgatory of the mundane." For eight years, I didn't hit rock bottom, I didn't have anything that jolted me awake. I was literally in purgatory, and my life was just mundane enough, that I didn't feel like I had the right to ask for anything more. And so flash forward, my husband was going out just trying to make enough money. And he became absolutely miserable. I said, "I don't care about money anymore. We need to actually make a change. Happiness is all that matters." That activated an idea between him and his business partners that was known as Quest Nutrition. And so I just helped as the good Greek housewife does. I just helped him out on the side. I was shipping bars from my living room floor, but what I didn't expect is that we would grow at 57,000%. And in that, being thrown into the deep end, not knowing what the hell I was doing, facing my inadequacies and my lack of talent and my lack of knowledge every single day, but having to fight to save my house, 'cause it was up for collateral. I ended up realizing who I was, and I ended up realizing like, "Oh my God, I'm capable of so much more." And that became the catalyst to the changing of my life. Helping build Quest that turned into a billion dollar company, helping build Impact Theory with my husband, and now having my own show "Women of Impact" and writing the book.
Very well articulated. And now there's absolutely no question in anyone's mind why I wanted to have you on the show. Your perspective is incredible. And I do wanna call out specifically your book. Congratulations.
It's called "Radical Confidence: 10 No BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of your Own Life." Love the style as well, it's been so fun to read. I shared that I was reading it via PDF, because it's a couple months here before the book comes out, technically. And I am grateful to get these advanced copies. So thank you for thinking of me, and it's just amazing. And as I shared also, before we started recording, the topic of confidence and as you articulate very thoughtfully and earnestly in the book is like, so many other things in our life, it is a muscle that can be developed, it's a set of skills that can be learned, and it's not a genetic gift as so many of us have been either taught, or fallen into the trap of believing. So, let's go back to London. You know, it's obviously you can hear the British accent. And how does one get from London, as you described yourself, I'm not gonna use all of the words, because you were very critical of yourself as a young... I'll just use the word awkward...
Teen. An awkward teen. (Lisa laughs) Young, awkward teen in London. Why don't you start there, and give us a little bit, why awkward? And how does one go from being in the UK as a teenager to living in Los Angeles, even prior to the... Where you picked up your story of on meeting Tom, who's also a dear friend and a friend of the show, and I've been a guest on a number of Impact Theory things that you guys have created, and is a wonderful human. So let's talk about meeting Tom, but also, how do you get from there to hear? 'Cause right now, I think there's a lot of people who are saying, "Hmm, I wanna get closer to my dreams, and my dreams might not be in, fill in the blank, wherever I am." So how did you escape the trappings of being that awkward teen in London, and at least make the first step on the journey that you are on now?
Yeah, it's such a great question. So the truth is I was trapped for a long time, and there's still part of me that's emotionally trapped as that young girl. And to be honest as an adult, I've actually just given myself grace to go, "It may just be a part of you. And instead of trying to ignore it, or forget that that existed, how can I use that as like, an actually beautiful thing in my life?" And so when I look back now and I look at the times where I was teased and bullied, I was a very traditional Greek girl, so I had like a bit of a unibrow, and I had one of those head braces. You know, Chase, that goes all the way around the neck? Remember back in those days? I had one those...
The head gear. (Lisa laughs)
Yeah. And so I was just teased and I was mildly dyslexic, I held my pen wrong. So they put me like in a special class, because they thought that for somehow, holding a pen wrong would dictate my future. But as a kid, when you're already being bullied, put it being put in one of those classes just gives you another reason to get bullied. And so... But as a kid, I still had massive dreams of coming to Hollywood and making movies, because movies for me was such a beautiful escape. It became a place where I could... You know, I watched a lot of '80s movies, so I watched like, "Karate Kid," and, "Adventures in Babysitting and Things," and like that. And it gave me hope. Like, there was this beautiful stories, back in the '80s movies, where it was like this underdog story, but definitely relatable to a young teen. And I would just see like, how much I could get lost in these movies, and feel a certain way. So as I got older, I realized the power of content, and I realized how beautiful you can impact someone with video, music. You know, just the pace of which you cut something can impact someone. You can actually make someone cry. Like, that's such a beautiful form, to be able to pull at someone's emotions like that. So I definitely, as a teen got lost in that. And getting lost in that made me dream about one day that I would come to Hollywood. Now, growing up in North London, where you come from a very traditional Greek background, no one has ever married anyone outside of my Greek religion, no one has left countries except... Actually that's a lie, they went from Cyprus, so I'm actually Cypria, and my family went to London, but you never move away from your family. The only reason why you do that, which was my dad's reason, back then was, "It was to make enough money." So he had to move in order to provide for his family, 'cause he grew up in a tiny, tiny village in the mountains of Cyprus. So all the time, growing up, I definitely got subliminal messages from my parents, from my grandmother, that I would eventually be a stay at home wife and support my husband and have children. Now, if that's your dream, and that's what you're doing, that's so beautiful. Like, that can be something that can be so filling to so many women. But for this young teen, it really wasn't. I was like, "I don't wanna do that." I had these big dreams. But over time, when you get messages, time and time again, when you are told, "That's a big dream for a little girl like you," when you are told by your grandmother who meant well, but when I would fall and scrape my knee as a kid, she would come running over and say to me, "Oh you it's okay, you're gonna be okay by the time you'll get married." Now, when you think about what that message means, "You're gonna be okay by the time you get married," it's really telling a young Greek girl that, "Hey, the whole reason why you are around, the end goal is to get married." Like, "As long as you are okay by the time you get married, everything else is gonna be fine." So I start to like, went in backtrack, and I really do understand where my mindset came from. But I was still a bull, I was a teenager. I was like, "I really wanna study film. I really wanna study film." So I got a film degree after a massive argument I had with my dad. Because my dad eventually said, "Well, you know what? Fine study film, you're gonna be a housewife anyway. So it doesn't really matter."
Now, Chase, in hindsight, it's not like my dad meant ill will. My dad just had a perspective of a guy who grew up in a tiny village in Cyprus, every single woman in his family didn't get an education. They didn't even go to high school. So for his perspective was, "Well, why were you... Whatever you study, you're going to be a stay at home wife anyway." And that was just his perspective. So I didn't take that personally, but I fought, I fought I fought, I eventually went to film school. Right after film school I was like, "I'd learned all the technical things. Like, I learned how to use a light meter. I learned how to like process film. I learned how to... You know, like in those black bags, and like, I learned all of that." But when I left, I was like, "I've just spent the last three years studying something and I still have no idea how to direct." And that was my goal. So once I realized that, my friend gave me a brochure, and she's like, "Oh, there's a film school in Los Angeles. And it's actually called the New York Film Academy. And so it's just eight weeks, you go there and you study directing." So I went back to my dad, I tried to persuade him, and the agreement was, "All right, dad, if you pay for me to go to America, I will absolutely, when I get back, I will look for a job," that was our deal. And of course, for him it was just getting a job until I get married, just to put a point in that. And so he paid and so I went... Flew to LA and I was like, "Oh, okay, I've got eight weeks to learn everything I possibly can." Day one I walk in, and my husband works for the company. So a week later, turns out he became my teacher. So two weeks in of me being in Los Angeles, the person who is now my husband was actually started out as being my teacher.
Oh man, what did your dad say? Did you say, "I'm not coming home?"
So that was a whole big thing. So I didn't tell him, because being a traditional Greek dad, it was like, "Well, first of all, he's an American." Second of all, it was like Tom and I, both thought it was gonna be a summer fling. You know, neither of us actually thought... You know, and it is a school for adults, for anyone listening that may not know my husband, there's only four years difference between us, just to like kind of make sure that that's very clear, but we just thought it was gonna be a summer fling. And the beauty in that though, the beauty was, neither of us had any pressure, and neither of us went into the situation with any pretense. And it was weird how that one thing, on our first day, we started talking about things I've never spoken about with guys before, like, where he just would matter of fact, just be curious about my life. Like, "Why do you believe in God?" Now, I'm a Greek girl that came from North London, I've never been asked that question in my life. And so my first answer Chase, was, "Because my dad told me to," and I was 21 years old. Now, meeting someone who's not afraid to just ask questions. When you have a conversation where there's no pretense, there's no malice behind any questions, it really was just such pure... What is the word? Curiosity, that we both ended up just being ourselves. And so after that, I was like, "I've never met a guy like this before." Like, he's breaking all expectations, all thoughts that I had of what I thought I wanted in a guy. Like, I thought I wanted a guy that... Very much took care of their appearance, drove a nice car. Like, I was trained almost to believe that's what a woman should look for in a guy. And here he was, he had a messy car. He never like, never cared what he wore, but Chase, on that first date, he opened the car door for me and I was like, "What the hell? Shivery actually exists?" And so these little moments, where I had a preconceived notion of what my life would be, what my partner would be like, who I would actually go for. And because I didn't put any pressure on myself, all these new elements that I didn't even realize I would be drawn to, were so amazing. And I was like, "Okay, well, let's just see where this goes." And so every day, we left each day and it was like, "Oh, what are you doing tomorrow? Nothing? Cool, let's hang out." And so in hindsight it became this, "What do you think you want? Are you open to exploring other things? Because you may be actually surprised at seeing the things you want are actually not the things you want." And that became a massive realization of how much my belief system, of what I thought I wanted came into question. And it was like, "Why do I actually believe this? Where did this come from?" And it all stems from the messaging we get when we're kids.
It's a brilliant articulation of something that through your lens, you know, you are able to articulate it through having a, you know, very traditional family structure that had end goals. But the same is true with everyone, right? We've got these beliefs, these mindsets that are established, basically for us, and it's our job to unlearn them. And part of that unlearning, to take a page out of your book... (Chase beatboxes) (Lisa laughs) Is the willingness, if you will, to trust yourself. And, you know, the intro chapter to the book is called your, "Your Dreams are a Gamble."
Bet on yourself. And I don't know, is it gambling and betting or is it investing? It doesn't really matter. But at what point did you feel like you had the permission or you had unlearned enough to start to bet on yourself?
That's such a complex question, 'cause you even just said to trust yourself, right? And I'm... This may be a curve ball, but I think even that, is a skillset you have to practice. And trusting yourself blindly is actually a little foolish, because like anything, it becomes like, when we talk about instinct, for instance, right? Instinct to me is a skill that gets developed. You build instinct over time where you're like, "Huh? That one time three years ago where someone gave me that look, has actually stayed with me. And the instinct now is developed in my mind that, that look means something negative," right? Instinct becomes a scoreboard, if you will, of the things that have happened. And now it becomes this... What is it like the... Maybe the wiring between like your gut and your brain, where you almost can't articulate it yet, but your body gets a sensation. And so even when I talk about trust, I don't just blindly trust myself. I go, "Do I have credibility in this area? And what are the things I may not be seeing?" And maybe right now, I don't trust that I'm gonna know everything, and that's okay, but right now it feels right. So I'm going to take an account of how I approach this. And if my instincts are right, if I can trust myself, and if not, then I can learn from it." Instead of beating ourselves up that we thought we could trust ourselves. We try something, it fails, and then we beat ourselves up over, "Oh my God, see you can't trust your opinion. You have to listen to everyone else." So even like that trust thing is very tricky. And so, yeah, I don't think I answered your question.
No, no, you nailed it. I guess the only thing that I would like to further excavate is, was that a moment or was it a series of a thousand moments?
And where do you feel like you are in that journey now?
Yeah, it was a series of a thousand moments. And actually, this is something that haunts me. I wish I could say, "It was this moment and this is what happened," right? It's kind of like, why I said this part of me where purgatory the mundane is actually more dangerous than hitting rock bottom, because how the hell do you wake yourself up in those moments? Like, I didn't have a flash moment where I was like, "Oh my God, now I can trust myself, now I can bet on myself." It wasn't like that. I got into the situation of being stuck for eight years because I made very small, slow decisions, day in, day out that led me there. And to get out of that, it became recognizing, A, I had a choice that was huge. "Oh, I have a choice of these small little steps I'm making in this direction." And so if I had a choice and I got here myself was, I take ownership over that, I find that very empowering. Then I now can start making small choices to undo it, to go backwards. But that means I have to trust to your point, that I'm moving in the right direction. And that's it. It's not trusting that I'm gonna do a great job. It's not trusting that I'm gonna know my shit. Sorry, I'm not sure if I can swear.
But like I get...
If I can...
Let it rip.
Solve my shit. The point being is, I've given myself permission to move in this direction. And, "Lisa, you're gonna mess up a thousand times, Lisa, you're gonna fall on your face and it will hurt. It will sting, failure sucks." But the truth is I've recognized that where I am today is because I made those small decisions. And right now all I need to do is give myself permission to start making small decisions in the other direction. And dude, that really freaking starts with just saying, "I am going to bet on myself." Again, it's not blind confidence. It's just making that commitment, because I think that that's where you have to start. No one else is gonna bet on you if you don't.
It seems like a piece of your recipe, if you will, or an attribute that comes across so clearly in this conversation is, your ability to honestly self reflect. Is that something you've always had? Or is that also something you've developed? And was there some sort of a reckoning?
Was there a reckoning? Not really, but 1,000%, my self-awareness is actually my key. Because everything I do, everything, like from my emotional... I call it emotional sobriety to keeping... You know, to being very focused on my goal. All of that is very difficult. And so when I approach these things, I say to myself, "What are the things that are getting in my way?" Like, that's where I start. "What are the things that are getting in my way? Okay, Lisa, you don't know this," right? "We're in this moment, am I right or not?" 'Cause that's the thing, sometimes we don't wanna hear the negative thoughts that are in our mind. And the negative thoughts were actually one massive thing that kept me stuck. It was that, "Lisa, you're not good enough. Who do you think you are to ask for more?" Like all of that, the noise in the head. And one of the biggest things that I did is, I realized that that noise can be crippling to so many of us. The fear, the imposter syndrome, whatever word you wanna use, can really keep us stuck. So when I started to think about, "How on earth, I don't let this get me stuck?" Like, I literally was like, "What's my problem? It's this." And now I just go, "How on earth do I either stop it, or change it so that I can keep on my path?" And that was the thing I was like, "Okay, everyone's telling me to be nice to myself. Everyone's saying, you know, 'Use soft language, Lisa. I can't believe that you are mean to yourself.'" And I really tried, Chase. And I was like, "In the effort of trying and failing, now, I just felt worse about myself," because I'm like, "Everyone's telling me I need to be nicer to myself, I can't. And now I'm beating myself about how useless I am, that I can't even be nice to myself." So I'm like, "This is just a death spiral. So what serves my goal? What moves me forward or what holds me back, just look at." And that's kind of where my self awareness started from, is like, not taking the... Not judging myself. And I kept saying, you'll hear me say that a lot. Like, "With no judgment, with grace, with no judgment, with grace." And that's what I started to do. With no judgment and utter grace, start writing down all the things that are getting in my way. And now start assessing, how on earth, I don't let that get in my way. And that's what I did. So I started with my negative voice, I realized my strategy wasn't helping. It was just becoming even more overwhelming, because I was beating myself up. And now I go, "Okay, I've got a choice. I can let this be detrimental to me, or I can think of a different way." And I love using fun language. So I don't take myself too seriously. So I started saying, "How can this kryptonite become your superpower?" Language is powerful. So I could say other words that could really cripple me, but I knew I had to take the negative voice and make it lighthearted. So I started to position it, "How can I take this kryptonite, turn it into my superpower? What if this was your best friend?" What if this voice, just like a friend, just like your partner, you want them to be honest with you, right? Like, you don't want them to just BS you, and make you feel good all the time. The whole point in trusting someone is so that they can be very honest with you. So I said, "What if I did that with my negative voice? It's my best friend, it's..." You know, I called it the bitch in my head, and now I'm turning into my BFF. I'm gonna put my arm around her. I'm gonna give her a big squishy cuddle. And I'm gonna ask her, "What can I listen to? What are you trying to tell me?" And then taking that information with grace and go, "Great, thank you for letting me know all the things I'm bad at, now, how can I actually get better?" And in that process of how I just broke it down is how I started to become so self-aware without judging myself, but becoming aware of all the habits I was doing, that I didn't even realize I was doing, becoming very aware of the way that I was showing up every day. And I was saying, "I want this goal," but the truth was I wasn't actually being in alignment. My actions weren't in an alignment with what I was saying I wanted. And this all became very aware to me as I started to just write down. "What are my voice... What's the voice in my head saying? 'Don't judge yourself, Lisa, don't beat yourself up,' just write it down." And now, over time, you start to recognize what thoughts are in your head, and how that is actually impacting how you show up.
Brilliant, one level deeper. Can you articulate the... Is there some specific mechanics that you would advocate for writing it down? Because writing it down is sort of a little bit of a generic term for, getting it on paper. Do you do that, is it morning pages? Do you have a notebook that you get all that stuff on and you refer to it every day? Like, gimme a little bit of the structure that you either used at some point, or now having recognized all this, and written a beautiful book about it. Like, what do you prescribe?
Yeah, so I'm very messy when it comes to this sort of thing. And it was interesting 'cause in writing the book, I really was like, I don't know what I'm gonna say, because there's so much messiness to the way we think, to the way that we show up, to that way we function. But for your listeners to really be able to execute on this, 'cause I'm all about, "How do we actually tactically do this?" It really was a, okay, sit back and say, "What is your goal?" Like, write down right now, what that goal is. So let's say for me it was... I'm gonna use a real example that I use, my goal is impact. Okay, well let's actually get very specific, because we can all trick ourselves into going, "No, no, I'm impacting, I'm impacting," but what does that actually mean? So step one is getting the goal and being so succinct on your goal that you know, when the negative voice comes in, when you start to act in a certain way, you have a very clear way of going, "Does this actually move me towards this or not?" You're removing the emotion from it. So for me, I was saying, "I wanted an impact," get very succinct so you know what that means. So what I did is, "Okay, what does impact mean?" To me it is, this is my mission. Is that creating content that can help a 14 year old girl believe in herself so that she doesn't have to spend the next 20 years unwiring the negative mindset I've had to do. So I know the who, the 14 year old girl, I'm very, very aware of that. So everything I do, that's my north star. I know what, creating content, that's my mission statement. So now I know, "What am I doing every day to create content to move me towards that goal?" And then the why is so that she doesn't have to spend the next 20 years having to unwire the negative mindset. So now I've got my actual strategy, my goal of my north star, as you will. Then I start to write down, "What are all the steps I need to do in order to get there?" And sometimes it may just be... In fact, I'm gonna back up. So now I know, "Okay, I'm trying... I know what I'm trying to achieve." I was starting to get a lot of offers in speaking gigs. And I kept saying, no, I was too scared, Chase. I was too petrified. The voice in my head was saying, "There's no way you're gonna get on stage, Lisa, you're going to freeze, you're going to embarrass yourself." And so I just kept saying no. But once I started to identify what my goal was, and I started to look at all the things I was fearful of, all the things my mind was telling me I shouldn't do, can't do, no right to do. I started to say, "The fact that I'm allowing my fear to get in the way is actually getting in the way of my goal. And so now with no judgment, I need to decide what is more important, my goal or my ego?" And it really did come down to that. Because the ego says, don't get on stage, you're gonna mess up. It's there to protect me, so I recognize it, but it was holding me from my goal. So right now I would love for your audience to write down what their goal is, write down all the things they're fearful of. And next to it, write down, if what they're fearful of actually serves their goal, yes or no, if it doesn't then great, you don't have to do it, it doesn't actually impact your life or the goal or your mission that you are on. If the answer is yes, with no judgment give your... You know, we need to give ourselves graces. It's like, "It's my life, if I don't wanna go on stage because it's actually too fearful for me, no one should have the right to tell me I should." So I want people right now to say, "No one is telling you, you should overcome this fear. You have to decide whether overcoming this fear serves you and serves your goal." Now, if you've made that decision, which I did, where I was like, "Okay, no, it doesn't sit well with me. Then my ego is taking president over my goal of speaking on stage. So, okay, so I have to speak on stage." But now Chase, just deciding to speak on stage doesn't actually get you to speak on stage. So I'm so tactical, I need to write down all these little steps on how I'm going to speak on stage. Because if I just let my mind go to the grand goal of speaking in front of people, done, my voice is... The negative voice, the self-awareness is definitely just overpowering, it is telling me that I am no good. And I know I will not be able to move. So now, once you've made the decision to overcome the fear, it's about getting very tactical on how the hell you get out of your own way. So my step number one was, I'm so petrified just to say yes. And I gave myself the awareness to say, "Okay, write down all these little fears about getting on stage," right? So number one, I was just fearful to say yes, "Okay, have a plan to overcome saying yes." I told my team, "Guys, the next time someone reaches out and wants me to do a public speaking gig, I need you to say yes." So that was my one. I had a tactic and a strategy to get over my fear of me saying yes. And it so happened, the very first person that reached out after that was TEDx. But Chase, I might made a promise to myself, so I couldn't go back on it. Because remember, I've assessed it, I've done my self-awareness, I've written it down, I know what my is, I know why I'm saying yes. So I've now said yes. Now, what's my next fear? Getting on stage. Like, actually stepping on stage. So, okay, why is that fearful? Because what if I fail? What if I freeze? "Okay, Lisa, so the real thing that you are worried about, is not knowing what to say." So I'm listening to the negative voice, "I'm fearful," I'm writing it down, I have my north star. "You don't know what to say." Okay, how on earth do I mitigate that? Practice, practice, practice. One of my favorite movies is "Karate Kid," wax on, wax off till the time you get in the ring, right? So that is exactly what I did. I started to practice, I read it out loud. I read it to Tom, I read it to my team. I actually put chairs out in my office and had my team sit there so I could read it out loud. Now, I dunno how many more tips you want, but I literally broke it down...
Per fear. And instead of worrying about that big thing, and I've got like 30 more that I did to just get on stage, but that is exactly how you start to become self-aware of what's getting in your way, why you're not achieving your goals, not getting overwhelmed, putting in small little tactics on how you overcome it. And to me, that becomes... Like, it actually starts with the self-awareness piece.
Brilliant, one last question on that. Very tactical.
Is this a notebook that you keep by your bedside table or is this a whiteboard that you walk by and look at every day? Where specifically are you writing this? And is this something that you refer back to often? Just to get... You know, you're talking about being tactical, and I'm curious. We all have different methodologies, I'm curious of yours.
So yeah, this is actually a great question. I do have different types of methods. So depending on what I'm trying to do, will depend on how I do it. So if I know that if I write something down in my Evernotes. My Evernotes is like my go to thing. That's where I'll have like my mind dump, if you will. So I'll have like a section that's called Personal or I'll have Speaking, and I'll just have moments of mind dump. And that will be where I'm in the middle of working out. That's where I get such great ideas where I'm like, "Oh, I've just thought of a way to overcome that fear." And I'll quickly just write stuff down, but that just becomes a mind dump. But I fear, I find writing something down, solidifies my thoughts. So I must write them down, I can't just leave them like, up in the air without actually assessing them. But then if it's something like a fear I'm really trying to get over, and I've written down how I'm gonna get over it, but I need that emotional hit, I'll write post-its. Post-its in my jam. I'll write post-its around. And that's more of an emotional thing. So let's say I've got... "Okay, I've got the strategy, I've written it down of how I'm gonna overcome certain things. I need still those emotional boosts." So sometimes I'll do post-its, and I'll put it like on my mirror, that will just motivate me where it's like, if I'm in the process of overcoming my fear, I'll write a post-it like, "This too shall pass," to remind me that the anxiety I'm feeling right now will actually pass. I do alarms on your phone. And I actually call this... You've got this roulette. So what I do is, if I'm gearing up for something, I'll put an alarm in my phone. Now, I love... You've got this with the little like flex emoji, people can put whatever they want, and then I'll close my eyes. And what I do is, I spin the time. And I just close my eyes and I save it. And now what happens is, this alarm goes off at random fricking moments. And the whole point of that is, it's to catch me off guard, to remind myself in all these weird situations that I've put myself in, that I've got this. Now, I do that time and time again, like either daily or biweekly or whatever. And it becomes this little drip. I even said at the beginning of this interview, the little drip that my family did on me, that my grandmother did on me on my belief system, it becomes these small stepping stones over time, and I know that. So how do I lean into it? I do these little drips of motivation along the way. So I have my strategy written down, that's my Evernote. So just to be more succinct. Strategy, Evernote, self-awareness, Evernote, motivation in moments, sticky notes, small drips towards a bigger audacious goal that like, getting on stage for a month, I'll have an alarm that just catches me off guard. So I have all these weird things to help, organization, whiteboards. So organization is big titles, my three or four or five audacious goals that I have on a whiteboard, that I will have sometimes in my office. But again, this is like a rotation, because like anything you start to forget, it's even there. Like, I don't know if you've got a screensaver on your phone, but you know when you have that image so much, you actually don't even realize the image is there, until you change it. So I always know, "I'm a revolving door, I'm a work in progress. It's never all one and done, I think of things, I try things. I hear other people suggest things. I see if that works for me, I wear a Wonder Woman necklace." This is another thing. I wear this Wonder Woman necklace on purpose, that every time I look in the mirror, I see what is possible. But this is something that I've lean into. Repetition creates habit. So what I did is, every time I put on this necklace, for like almost a month, I'm sure. I can't even remember, but it was something like that. I kept saying, "You're like, Wonder Woman, you can do anything. You're like, Wonder Woman, you can do anything." Now, look, I know it... Like, is abstract, but you do it enough. And you really like lean into it enough. Now, when I look at it, I'm like, "Oh yeah, hell yeah, I'm like Wonder Woman." So those are some very tactical, little weird things that I do from very, you know, traditional write things down, to the subliminal messages I like to try and give myself.
So helpful on so many fronts. And I feel like there's a paradigm of... For anyone who's out there trying to make changes in their life or transform it at the extreme, that as you look to others who have told their own story or shared it, it seems like they were never in the position that you find yourself in right now. And so thank you for sharing the very tactically. And, you know, you said it four or five times, like weird or quirky, I forgot all the words that you used, but all those idiosyncrasies, I think, understanding and leaning into those things for each person, if I'm gonna try and summarize and craft into a little nugget for listeners, it's like, those are the things that you've... I've also been an Evernote person since 2009, and put everything and that's my brain up. And whether that's for you and I, I don't know if it's for anyone else who's listening, but experiment with that. And the little yellow sticky notes or writing on your mirror, like, whatever the things are. And I also want to call attention to how many and how diverse your programming is to yourself. You know, you have, "This is how I attack one thing. This is how I manage another," and together they stitch together a sort of a fabric that is some structure for the confidence, the curiosity, the goal setting, and it's just beautiful. Thank you for being so articulate on that point.
Well, thank you, Chase. I just wanna actually add something there, because that's actually a really big point, and I'm really glad you brought this up because, I have stumbled through everything that I'm talking about. And the thing was, I just kept feeling badly about myself, because I would listen. I mean, my... You know, you've been on my husband's show. Like, we would have so many incredible humans that are talking about mindset and given tactics, and you know, meditation. And so I would try it and I would sit there and try and meditate and I would get like a... Had this little meditation cushion. And I was like, "Everyone says this is gonna help." And I hated it. And it wasn't helping. It was making me more anxious about the fact that I couldn't freaking meditate. And so in those moments of just stumbling, I was like, "All right, what's the goal? To clear your mind. All right, Lisa, well, maybe meditation isn't for you, but pay attention to the fact that everyone is saying, 'Clearing your mind is actually imperative,' great. So if I know the end goal is to clear the mind, but meditation isn't for me, that's the path. What other path can I possibly take?" And so I started to just explore, "What is that Lisa version of it?" Instead of trying to copy everyone. And so I realized my version of meditation on the weekends is just drawing. I switch my phone off, I have my pencil. And all I do for hours, hours, is I sit at my art desk, and you wanna know what brings me freaking clarity? It's that. Working out in the gym, lifting heavy weights, I have my best ideas, which is apparently what happens when you meditate. And so eventually going back to... I gave myself grace, and I didn't judge myself for not being able to meditate. And I gave myself grace to explore other things. And that's the biggest takeaway that I really want in this book for your audience to really hear is, guys, it's not about what Lisa does, it's not about what Chase does. It's about, what is that goal you're trying to get to? What is getting in your way? And what are tips and tactics I can maybe help tell, but that you can then take and do your version of? 'Cause like you said, it's like, Evernote works for me and you, but I don't want people to get caught up in Evernote if that isn't what works for them. The point being is, how do you continuously move forward on that dream and goal you have? And what is the messiness and beauty that is you? And that's what I ended up just doing and leaning into. And it is messy and quirky and weird.
Yeah, I think if I might add a punctuation to that, that what it sounds like and what now I'm replaying my own experience on these vectors, and the takeaway isn't necessarily the how, for me, it's...
You know, me and you it's Evernote, and for you, it's working out, and for me it happens to be meditating. But the thing that you ought to be aware of is, the commonalities from high performers, that some way to clear your mind is valuable. Some way to state your goals is valuable. And...
And it seems like, that is a worthy takeaway. And to be very clear, this is in your new book, which I'm very excited and thank you for sharing with me.
"Radical Confidence: 10 No BS Lessons on Becoming the Hero of Your Own Life." I wanna switch topics, and it is a little bit from... Away from the internal because, A, we spent a lot of time there. I think that's the right way to be in this show, because most of our challenge and our opportunity, those are internal. But I wanna understand your view on what I think is, for better or worse, it's just... It's a reality. And you face this reality. You articulate this in the book, and on your YouTube show, "Women of Impact." You've discussed this at length with other women. At some point, the changes that you make, let's say you are successful on some aspects, the personal confidence, the awareness, the goal setting, moving toward your goals. At some point, there is likely going to be a collision between the changing you, in this case, the changing Lisa, and other people in your life who have, based on your previous actions, drawn a box around you, or have an understanding of you. And when you start to... When you start to press up against the vision that other people have, in your case, perhaps it was your father, or I'm curious, what were some of your strategies? Did you experience resistance? You've talked about the lightweight ways in which your father... You and your father had some... I would just call it some curfuffle. (Lisa laughs)
You could say that.
But let's... I'm gonna use a more concrete example. You articulate very clearly that you were a housewife, and you were supporting Tom in his vision, because you were working in the shipping department for Quest Nutrition, and you started to make these changes. I'll use the word, transform your life. At some point, you said, "Not for me anymore, the new me."
And clearly there has to be, because of this societal construct that we inhabit some friction.
Let's just take you there. You start to get some friction. I believe that one of the blockers that most people fall back on, and even if they're willing to say all the things you said and make some of the changes, as soon as they start coming up into conflict with... Especially with people they love, and with people who love them, it gets awkward. So you're eight years in realizing, "This is not my goal."
And you start to change. How do you manage that friction?
And are you talking friction with my husband or friction with my dad? 'Cause there's two frictions there.
Sure, let's talk about... We've already talked about your dad, let's talk about frictions with your husband and, you know, just to be crystal with any listener there, whether this is your husband, partner, spouse, wife, brother, sister, mother, the fact that there are frictions when you are changing, let's be very clear. You have to know that this will happen. Do not be surprised that when you start... You know, you've thought of yourself as one way and you start to change, physically, emotionally, mentally, that the world will say, "Wait a minute, you are changing." And whether they like it or don't like it, or... That's actually secondary, the fact that they are going to lock in on, A, change, and B, likely some sort of a resistance, because that's new and different for them.
In this case, I want to explore having, you know, ostensibly, the person you're closest to in the world, your husband, how did that change manifest? How are you able to overcome it? Communicate about it? 'Cause that's a big blocker for people.
Yeah. I'm sure there's gonna be no surprise that... To anyone listening, that I'm gonna say that, first I try to do both, right? Like, we all do. It's like, you have an identity. And my identity was a supportive wife. And so that was the identity I took in, as I was shipping bars from my living room floor. And it's like, "Well, I'm a good wife, I'm gonna help out," until I started to really... Until the company started to really grow. And I started to realize, "Oh, okay, I'm going to the office every day now," 'cause again, it was growing at 57,000%. So it became just a helping out for five minutes a day, to now it was like becoming a full-time job. And as I was going in every day, doing longer and longer hours, of course that part of me that had the identity of being the wonderful wife didn't wanna let that go. I didn't wanna let my husband down. It was something I had been taught. So I tried to do both. And in that process of trying to do both, of course, what a surprise, I wasn't doing anything amazingly well. And I wasn't happy along the way. So as I started to realize and I started to assess, "Oh my God, I feel like I'm being pulled in so many directions," because I didn't want my change to impact the people I love. I didn't want people to go, "My God, she's changing, who is she?" Like, I tried to balance both. And of course, that just became so difficult to do. I wasn't happy. I was trying to make other people happy, as I was trying to go on my own journey, that didn't work. So I was like, "Okay, I have to make a decision." And I love business. Like, I had no idea I would, and I love it. And so I was like, "I actually don't think I wanna be a supportive wife anymore." And it was like, "I don't wanna put my clothes out for my husband anymore, I don't wanna cook him dinner." And in those moments it's like, "But I still love him more than life itself," right? He's still very important to me and you said that earlier, it's when it's people in your life that you love, that's the hardest. And so here I was saying, "I promise my husband..." Not even promise, I said I wanted four children when we got married, I was taking care of him, every single need he had, to the point where he was waking up in the morning, his work clothes were right next to him. He would get to the gym, come back, I would have his lunch ready for him. So I was like, "I really don't wanna do that anymore. And how on earth am I gonna tell him that?" Because this could actually be a make, or break in our relationship, I don't know. He says he wants me to be happy, I say, "I want him to be happy." But in this moment I realized I wasn't happy in doing both. So I had to speak up. And now, how on earth to your point, do you have these conversations? I knew I was doing myself a disservice by not speaking up. I had had eight years of it where I didn't realize I was doing it. And now being thrust into the growth Quest, I now realized. And so I realized what life I could have, I'd never questioned it before, but now I did. And so I was like, "I have to talk to Tom, it's gonna be difficult, but we have to have this conversation." So knowing number one, having compassion for the person that you're talking to, because they're gonna have their perspective, they're gonna have their emotions, they're gonna have their feelings. And I think it is absolutely dismissive of me to go in and say, "This is who I am now and you have to accept it." That's dismissive to him. The fact that he's gonna have feelings behind it. So as a partner, I go... Or even if it's a parent or a friend, so if you really care about them, go into the situation knowing that they're gonna have feelings about your change. Now, where do their feelings come from? Is it from their own insecurity? Is it from their own discomfort? Is it coming from their own belief system that now you're challenging? Like, I do all the work before I have the talk. So with Tom, it's not like his mindset. It was though... It was about though the fact that I was actually my change, was making his life very difficult, right? He had a certain lifestyle, we'd been doing it for eight years. And me changing the pitch up on him was absolutely gonna make his life more difficult. And so I think, just like I would want him to come to me and recognize that, I wanted to give him the same respect. So when I started to approach it, I was like, "Okay, I have to approach it with respect and say, 'Babe, I recognize I'm the one changing and I recognize this is actually going to be a little uncomfortable for both of us until we navigate this.'" So giving him the respect. Then giving him the grace to have an opinion that he must say out loud. Not trying to shut him down, actually giving him space to tell me how he feels about it. Doesn't mean he's not gonna be on board, but just saying, "Babe, I want you to tell me how you feel." So that's the next key. Then the final thing is making sure you approach it... Like, if you are... You know, obviously he's my partner. So it's somewhat... Like, I think of it as like, "Hey look, we want this relationship to work." And I do think that with a parent and a friend, like, if you actually really are friends with them, and you actually do want your friendship to work, and they do too, then go into it saying, "We are a team." And that's exactly what I did with my husband. It's like, "Babe..." And the analogy I like to use is tennis. You can either, with your partner or with a friend or with a parent, are you playing a game of singles? You're on one side of their net, they're on the other, they throw the ball to you, you hit it back. But the goal is for you to win. Or are you playing a game of doubles? Where this person that you're trying to talk to about your change about maybe this friction, are they on the same side? 'Cause if you're playing doubles, now the whole goal is, you're in it together. You both want to win together. So how on earth do you discuss things so that the point being, if I miss the ball, your mate has your back, your partner has your back, your parent has your back? But they need to know where your weaknesses are. They need to know where you are moving, so that they can then, have your back to have, where maybe, "Oh my God, okay, you're moving left. Great, I'm gonna move right." Now, if you approach it like that. If you approach it with open arms like I did with Tom, it was like, "Babe, we both want this relationship to be happy. We both want each other to be happy." And so I said, "Babe, right now, I'm not happy. The last eight years, I actually haven't spoken up and they haven't been meaningful. I've lived a life where I didn't recognize myself. And over this last year or two, where I've been thrown into Quest, I found myself. And babe, while I love you more than life itself, I really don't wanna put clothes out for you anymore. It's not satisfying to me. It's not satisfying to me to cook for you. It's not about you. I need you to know that I love you. And now, because I'm now finding happiness, I would love your assistance on helping me make this transition, because we're partners and I can't do it alone." And so what do you think he said, Chase? He was like, "Oh my God, babe, what kind of husband would I be, if you've just told me that this is making you happy? And I say to you, I want you to give up your happiness for my comfort?" He's like, "That's not the husband I wanna be. So of course I'm going to support you, but we need to come up with a way that we can do this, where it becomes like a stepping stone." So I said, "Okay, number one, babe, grieve the wife you thought I was going to be, and I'll give you space to grieve that. And what can I do to support that grief? Secondly, I need to grieve the wife I thought I was gonna be. And that's okay, I've made a decision that feels right to me. But just because you're moving towards something you love doesn't mean that you're not upset about moving away from something." And so I gave myself the grace, I gave my husband the grace. And then the last thing was, I said to him, "Now, let's actually have a strategy in place that shows you that I respect this transition." So I came up with an idea, I said, "All right, babe, what if I cook and clean for you for seven days a week, now, what if next week I do it for six days, and then the week after that, I'm gonna do it for five days. And then the week after that, I'm gonna do it for four day? That shows you... Your feet under you so that you know like, 'Okay, crap, what shirt am I gonna wear? Whatever.' And then by the end, I want, I want nothing to do with him, but me, on Saturday and Sunday, babe, I wanna cook for you, because this is how I want to feel. And I love that feeling." And so we worked through it, we came up with a strategy. We came up with a plan. The whole thing was about communicating. And at the end of the day it was, and we all know in order to move towards our dreams, there are going to be moments where you have to get uncomfortable. And so that was... I know that was very detailed, but that was exactly how I took this transformation, where there could have been massive friction. We could have end up in divorce, that's the truth, Chase. And everyone says, "Oh my God, you guys are so freaking lucky to be together for 20 years." We're about celebrate our 20 year wedding anniversary. And I keep saying, "It's got nothing to do with luck." In these moments, in these very specific moments, we could have got divorced. He could have said, "You're changing your mind," or I could have gone in saying, "I don't wanna freaking be a housewife anymore, I don't like this life, I'm changing, you need to jump on board." He could have turned around and said, "What the hell? This isn't the wife married. This isn't the person you said you were gonna be, you said you were gonna have four children. And now you don't want any? What the hell? You are changing your pitch, let's get divorced." All these things could have very much have happened. But what we did is we knew, we positioned, "What is our goal? To be married for the rest of our lives." Gonna go back to goal. To be happily married for the rest of our lives. And so we kept coming together and said, "How do we keep working towards this goal?" And that's how we end up doing it.
It's a brilliant deconstruction of it. And the detail, I think encapsulates so much. You said the word communication a number of times. And I would ask the listeners and watchers to envision yourself having that conversation with loved ones, with peers, partners, spouses, parents, career counselors, the people who have largely understood a previous version of who we are, and whom it would be disrespectful, not to communicate what you're actually feeling. And if you can take that blueprint, I would say, perhaps the best blueprint I've ever heard...
And apply it, like, that would eliminate what I consider to be the second largest hurdle in people changing their lives is, once you reconcile that you're not happy and that you wanna change, and that you're capable of it, the next thing, you look around, you're like, "All right, there's a bunch of shit that I have to break in order to achieve those things." And it doesn't have to end in divorce or some of the outcomes that we might envision for the other people in our lives, if you follow your advice. So, absolutely lovely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And a corollary of this story, and what you talked about it being hard, and let's reference the conversation you had about with your father. There's a chapter in the book called, "When the Shits Hits the Fan Wear Goggles."
So you've articulated in a couple of experiences with your father and with your partner and husband, Tom, the transition. But you haven't really talked about when it gets messy, and obviously, chapter 10 in the book does just that. So share with me, the being a learner, you know, failing and getting back up, awareness of imperfection. Talk to me about wearing goggles.
Yeah, this chapter, it was one of those things that was like, "If there's one message, it's that." Because so many of us worry about failure. And I think that, that's where a lot of our paralysis may come from. It's, "We don't wanna fail." And the reason we don't wanna fail, at least for me was, I was already bullied and teased as a kid. So the last thing I wanted was, you know, another reason to feel badly about myself. So as I started to grow and really develop a growth mindset, I realized I was spending so much time and energy on the wrong thing. I was so worried about failing that... Let me back up. I was so worried about failing that I wouldn't move forward, but the truth is, you tell me one fricking successful person that hasn't failed. No one, no one. There's not one successful person that hasn't failed. So, okay, if we know that, if we know failure is inevitable in going after any of your dreams, then how on earth do you stop worrying about failing and just start thinking about, "Well, when this does hit the fan, what am I gonna do about it?" So that's why I was like, "Wear goggles." And I think also, the point about failure is, we think that it does say something about us, right? That we are bad, that we are terrible, that we are stupid, that we are incompetent. And the truth is, is that I think of failure has been, the message it says about you is that you actually care, is that you are actually caring about what your life looks like, what goals you have and what dreams you have, because you need to try things in order to get there. And failure is a beautiful example and a highlight of the fact that you're trying. So when I found out, I tried to give myself a pat on the back and say, "See, Lisa, at least you gave it a shot." So it's the certain like, mantras and things that like, weigh our position things, to like, reframe it. So that's one thing. Then also, I think failure becomes this moment of, how do you handle it when it happens? There's two types of failures, I think. One failure where no one's looking. And Chase you know, it's so much easier to be like, "Phew, no one saw that one, let's never admit it. Let's never like..." You know, sweep it under the rug. The problem is, in those moments, you're missing an opportunity to learn. Now, when failure happens in front of everybody, sometimes again, that's so petrifying that we never even put ourselves in a position to be able to fail in front of people. Now, what I've realized is, is that being... Facing your failures can be the biggest lesson, the biggest opportunity if you let it. Now, this came about, if I can share a little story with you.
Please, I love it.
So, okay. Quest Nutrition, it's early days. Now, I don't have a growth mindset at this point. And I'm fearing failure every which way, I'm helping build our shipping department, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm learning all along the way. Like, I'm like, "All right, so the UPS guy said that if he can pick up more packages, if I put it on a pallet, what the hell is a pallet? Let me..." So I literally run to Google, type in, "What the hell is a pallet?" So again, just to give an example of how inadequate I was at what I was doing. So each day comes up, I dunno what I'm doing, I'm trying to figure it out. One day, we have just enough money to hire a couple of people to help our production facility, to help make the bars. And so one of the... We're running a batch of bars, one guy comes into the office and he looks ghostly white. He's like, "I'm so sorry, I've messed up a massive batch of bars." Now, in the early days of startups, every penny freaking count, every penny. So this batch of bars was about $5,000. So in my head, I've already gone to the worst case scenario. "Oh my God," like, "Have I just lost my house? Has the company gone bankrupt? You know, I go into panic mode. My husband though gets up and he's like, "Before you panic, let's just go see what we've got." So we walk into the facility and the guy is like, "All right, I was making a peanut butter batcher bars. And I had all the three... The batches that I was making, I had them all lined up, it was peanut butter, then it was gonna be mixed berry bar, and then it was gonna be lemon bar." So he's like, "So I'm working on the peanut butter, I put in the peanut butter protein powder, I put in the peanut butter, nuts, I put in the... Like, basically put in everything peanut butter. And then he went to grab the flavoring and picked up the mixed berry flavoring instead." And he's like, "So it's a ruined batch." So Tom turns around, he's like, "Well, let's just give it a try, let's everyone just try it." So we're all holding our breaths. You know, the love of the startup company, the things we end up doing. So we're like, holding our breaths. We're trying it, and someone turns around is like, "Kind of tastes like PB&J." And in that moment, we're like, "Oh, what if we put them in nondescript packaging?" We print out on my Staples printer, the nutrition information for peanut butter bars, because the only difference was the flavoring. So the nutrition value was still the same, because you're not legally allowed to sell food product without nutrition value, but we could easily do it. So we just printed out on my Staples printer. We had 200 boxes, we make an announcement on Facebook, "Guys, new prototype, limited edition." Dude, we sold out like that. Within two hours, we sold 200 boxes. Within a couple of days, we had like, shipped them out. People were trying them, people were blasting on Facebook, 'cause it was back in the Facebook days, blasting on Facebook how amazing this new bar is. People that didn't get to actually try that flavor now had massive FOMO because they were like, "I wanna try the PB&J bar." So within a couple of weeks, we got the design done, we got packaging done, we put it up for sale, and it became our number one selling protein bar flavor at that time. And that's when I realized, "Oh my God, if I can look at every failure as an opportunity, it forces you to get out of your own emotion, it forces you to think in a different way. And it forces you to think about, 'If this was the best thing that ever happened, what would I do?'" And now it's giving you a perspective and a path to actually focus on, instead of focusing on the failure and what that failure means about you.
Absolutely incredible. And thank you for telling the story. As you know, we learn in stories, you're a master storyteller, so that will not leave my brain. And I will just tip the hat to... If you enjoy this, what Lisa is sharing, again, the book "Radical Confidence," we're gonna share this episode when it's... During your pub week, so people can press the buy button and get it that week. I highly recommend it. And also, "Women of Impact," you're more than 300 episodes in now. And I'll say, as a male, I have enjoyed the numerous episodes. Again, talking about psychotherapy, ending manipulation, overcoming fear, the background of behavioral science. There's all kinds of things that has, despite being called the "Women of Impact," I've got a lot of value, so...
I love that.
And again, just kudos on the book. I wanna wrap up by asking you a question, if there are other things or other ways that our community can be of service to you and your mission and vision, where would you point us? Are there some things that you want us to know about? I know you and Tom are building Impact Theory, and that has all kinds of facets from NFTs to comic books and YouTube shows and original programming and everything in between, but where would you steer us? How could we get involved?
Yeah, thank you so much. So if anyone wants to hear more about "Radical Confidence," they can go to radicalconfidence.com. Instagram is the place for me, Lisa Bilyeu on Instagram where, especially my stories I just... I always show the real stuff. I'm like, "I don't like BSing anyone." So I do, you know, like morning photos in the morning, with like, how I think, or like certain tips, and stuff like that of how I actually motivate myself. So that's on Instagram. And then yeah, like, you've got impacttheory.com if they wanna know more about the show and our Web3 World that we're now getting into, which is super freaking exciting and scary, mind you, because it's such an evolving thing that, you know, you think you know what you're doing, and then the next day something new comes out. So that's actually right now where I'm trying to build radical confidence in, is in the Web3 World.
Excellent, excellent. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a treat. You have done such a nice job of articulating, I think some of the biggest challenges that all of us who want to transform will face, both internally and externally. We'll always have you on the show anytime you've got something to share, we're happy to share your vision. And thanks again for being on the show until next time out there, everybody in the world, again, "Radical Confidence" is Lisa's new book, and you know where else to find her on the internet. And just one more time, spelling B-I-L-Y-E-U.
Of course, of course. But signing us to everyone who's listening, thank you so much for paying attention to show what we do here. And until next time, from Lisa and I, we both bid you adieu.
Bye. (upbeat music)