Food Saved Me with Danielle Walker
Hey buddy, what's up? It's Chase Welcome to another episode of the Chase Jarvis live show here on Creative Live. You know, this show, I sit down with amazing humans unpacked their brain and share it with you in this amazing format where we get to hear long form, conversational uh genius at work with the world's top creators, entrepreneurs and thought leaders. And today's guest is Danielle walker, someone I've been trying to get on the show for a while, she's very busy because all she does is right new york times, bestselling books and spread amazing knowledge about food. Now food obviously is required for human life and I like to enjoy food at the same time, I want to be more mindful of what I put in my body. So a number of years ago I started paying close attention to that and one of the people's work that I stumbled on Lo and behold was Danielle's, she had written a number of cookbooks, one that I loved called Eat What you love. And this talked about both the positive benefits of eat...
ing intelligently, such that you can maximize performance, but it was also a realist view of this stuff like hey, you can still have things that um, that tastes good and are made of good things, not the off the store or off the shelf junk food, so to speak and acknowledging at the same time that we're all human. Well, she Daniel walker has a new book and it's called Food saved me. This is a little bit more of a memoir around finding health and hope when you have in her case, she had an auto immune disease. So for over a decade, Daniel has been a pioneer in leading the movement to eat healthy food that also tastes great. That is free of the things that are bad for us and doubling down on those things that are good for us. I've found a lot of wisdom from her and I know you will to this conversation is awesome, enjoy it. I'm gonna get out of the way yours truly in conversation with Danielle walker. Mhm Yeah, we love you Daniel, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm really happy to have you and congrats on the new book and all you have achieved. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I love your work. I was chatting you up before we went, we was pressed record here and was sharing that my wife kate and I have been longtime fans, which is where I first was acquainted with your work through cookbooks and make we make a lot of stuff out of your book. Eat what you love everyday comfort foods and I'm wondering for the handful of people before we dive into who you are, what your about your, your passions and specifically the book. Give us a little bit of an overview, maybe a couple of dots of historic context and then what it is you're focused on in case people are not familiar with your work. Sure. Yeah. So anyway, you love is my fourth cookbook and it's actually my favorite because it's all comfort foods that are done in a healthier light. And I think that if you're flipping through there, I feel like it brings a lot of hope that you can still really enjoy the food that you love, but in healthier fashion, that's actually healing for your body. And that's kind of where My mission began. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease when I was 22 and the medications and everything else, we're just making everything worse. And I finally, after a long time figured out that food could really make a massive impact on my day to day symptoms. And so I started out as a food blogger. Um and since then have written three new york times, bestselling cookbooks. And it's really, it's my mission in life is just to make food that still looks and Tastes and feels appetizing. But that isn't detrimental to our bodies. And there's over 50 million people with autoimmune diseases. So it's not just not just for me, it's for for everybody out there, that suffering that wants to still be able to enjoy food and all of the nostalgia and traditions that are tied to it. Food is clearly critical to human life and at what point in your work or research or it was there some tipping point where you realized that, you know, not only does this food sort of necessity is not a necessity, but it has and it's also not just something to steer clear of bad things, but there are also very, very proactive health nutritional um it's almost like insurance if you're eating well and taking care of yourself and that, that that can have an effect on so many more attributes and aspects of your life. At what point did you recognize that this was the case and my experience going to so many western doctors is, there's no conversations about food and so I'm curious where in your journey did you say, hey man, this is actually proactive and we can you know, build healthy, healthy body healthy ecosystem by putting good things in it. Yeah. Gosh, it's hard to exactly pinpoint at all of my doctor said that food wouldn't make a difference and it took me being in a hospital in Uganda of all places. The story is in food saved me in the new book um and actually have the doctor that was there, he was from London but he had lived in Uganda for years and he was the first one to ever talk to me about gut bacteria, which I had no understanding of even now being newly diagnosed with a digestive disease and really just about how how what we eat, how what we do, just our lifestyle can affect that microbiome and so that was really, I think the first point where I was like wow, this is all internal, there is something happening in there, you know, I mean, I think I maybe like heard that yogurt had some probiotics, but we're like talking like the sugary stuff in the store that might have had like one strain and probably didn't do a whole lot. Um and so that was really like the first point and then after that being online and just finding other people who had tested out different ways of eating um and reading their personal stories, because while the doctors I trusted, because they had studied a lot, they didn't study nutrition and they also didn't actually have any experience with having the disease personally. And so as I started finding people with similar ailments that had found healing with food, I believed them because I'm like, you actually know what is happening in your body, you can pinpoint this, you've seen yourself, you know, get into remission or have your symptoms lessened. And so that was kind of the biggest turning point for me when I was like, I need to try this and see if this works for me. I'm I'm in your book right now again, she mentioned it in case you missed it. Uh Food saved me. It's a memoir again. I'm very familiar to work from cookbooks, but the subtitle is my journey of finding health and hope through the power of food. And I've also seen the photographs of you lying on that looks like a piece of wood. I mean it was a piece of wood, piece of wood in Uganda and um Mhm There's another sort of uh some lower about you recognizing this and turning your kitchen at home into somewhat of a laboratory to experiment. And right now, I'm sure there are thousands of people who are listening or watching this show, maybe there on a treadmill or commuting to work or whatever. And this, the idea of turning their kitchen into a laboratory sounds overwhelming. Most people, you know, they want a quick and easy fix. So at the risk of, you know, oversimplifying your life's work around food and, you know, diagnosing and then treating yourself, just give the folks at home some simple guidelines and, you know, based on your experience and the work in in the lab. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so first of all, if it sounds intimidating or daunting to turn your kitchen into a laboratory, that's why I've written all my books, because it was not an easy process. I did not go to culinary school, but I knew that it was necessary because I couldn't eat grilled chicken and steamed broccoli for the rest of my life. And I feel like anybody that's ever either had to change anything about the way they eat, you know, had a food allergy, tried a certain way of eating for 30 days, whatever it is, it is intimidating because everything that, you know, and love feels like it's going to be lost. There's a story that can opening story about thanksgiving in this book, and just that feeling of like I'm never going to be able to enjoy the foods that I loved again. Um and so I really, the message of the book is listening to your body. So what I ended up having to do was cut grains, dairy lagoons, refined sugar and anything processed, right? But some people can tolerate some dairy or some people might be able to tolerate soaked lagoons. And so it's starting out at that point, I give some guides in the back about just here's what to start with, you know, give this 30 days kind of an elimination diet. Here's some grocery list, here's things to just get you started that make it really simple, but then really, really focusing on what your your individual body is telling you, and then you can kind of hone it in from there. But yeah, and uh that's that's it in a nutshell. And it's it's about five years of going through every single who possible to try to figure out what worked for me and then realizing after I started blogging that it wasn't just for me, it was, you know, for, like I said, just millions of people, I've received hundreds of thousands of messages over the years, from everything from joint pain to rheumatoid arthritis, to m s. You know, just this massive array of different ailments, different autoimmune diseases, chronic illness that people found this way in the way that I was eating in my recipes. Could help, what's the reason? What's the cause of the food that's in our universe, ultimately being bad for us? I mean, let's look back hundreds of thousands of years we've been eaten, you know, meet whether it's raw or cooked and stuff out of the ground and stuff on the bushes for a long time. And why is food such a a culprit in today's diet? Yeah, I think that the food that we eat now is not at all what it used to be like back back in the day. Um and I'm not a scientist, I am not a doctor, I have just learned so much over the years. And so I really tried to lay out kind of what I think are the different culprits in this book and inv as much of layman's terms as I can, because that's the way I needed to understand it when I was in the height of, you know, my disease and trying to figure things out. I think, I think not only is everything really processed, I think the gut microbiome is completely off, especially in the United States and everything in my opinion and from everything that I've read leads back to the gut which then also brings in inflammation. It brings in your immune response to things. So there's a lot of different things, but really, you know, I mean, gosh are the majority of our immune system is housed in our gut inflammation can start in our guts. So if things are not working well in there, which leads back to the food that we're consuming, then everything can go haywire. So I think, I think there's a lot of different reasons, but I think inherently the way that I eat is anti inflammatory. You're cutting a lot of those things that can cause inflammation in your body and the majority of illnesses or even just daily aches and pains stem from inflammation. So starting with your diet, you know, and cleaning that up to get it to be inflammation less, less inflammation friendly, I should say is just, it's like the first step and what's, I mean, I think a lot of people who are listening here there, you know, our watchers and listeners, they're here because they want if not peak performance, there is a desire and endeavor to do better to live a richer, healthier life to pursue your dreams and obviously sickness gets in the way of that. But this term inflammation gets thrown around so casually and if you're not in the business as you are or if you haven't read your books like I have, I'm aware of this and passionate about food, but for someone who's listening and not like, okay, inflammation sounds good when I rolled my ankle and if it's inflamed, I know that's bad, I can take some Advil and the swelling goes down. But talk about inflammation in the body, how it gets there, why it's bad and why the foods that you were suggesting and that you have researched in your experience are antithetical to this horrible thing, inflammation. Yeah, I mean, gosh, that's going to be a question that I'm like, I might need to go look that I need to go get a definition for that again. I'm like, I'm a cookbook author. I mean, that's what I love about your work is it puts things in layperson's terms and like, I don't need to know the cellular root cause of information, but why is inflammation, you know, bad and and why are the foods that you're prescribing? You know, how do they not inflame you? Like, you know, some low grade race, a roni or something? Yeah. I mean, I think I've learned mostly for my disease for autoimmune diseases specifically. But when you're when there is inflammation in your body, your body is trained to go and try to fight that off. Like that's that's what it does. That's why the bodies are pretty miraculous. And so it wants to try to heal those things and if it's just this long term chronic inflammation, which is what I had, especially in my colon, you know, causing that to be inflamed all the time, is then what set my autoimmune disease off, which is essentially in a very easy way to explain it. It's your body is attacking and otherwise healthy organ and that can be different depending on what you have psoriasis, sick and attack your skin. You know, different, different things, your joints for rheumatoid arthritis, for mine, it was attacking my colon and the inflammation in there was causing the body to kind of react in that way. Um, and so and then also just with with all sort of colitis, having inflammation in there is what causes the pain and all of that. Um, and so, getting that down by reducing things like refined seed oils and sugars and the things that that cause that to spike is what has been essential for me to find the health and and just the reduction of symptoms. So, reduction of symptoms. I like that you, I like that you couched your answer in the reduction of symptoms, but we also are talking the goal is health here, Right? So you're reducing symptoms and then how, by reducing symptoms, like, on how do we get to health? Because I think people who are watching, listening, that's what they want. I want to eat in a way that promotes health, not just not being sick, but actually can make me stronger healthier, make my life more vitality. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I focus on a few things, I think again, going back to that, but that gut microbiome also things like bone broth that are helping to strengthen the gut, which, again, like just even if you don't have an autoimmune disease that's in the gut, like I do so much stems from there and so in general keeping that healthy, you know immune it can reduce, like I said our our immune system is housed there right? So we have better capability to fight off just general like infections and run of the mill colds and flues. And I think you know, those things are so important just in our day to day. I mean like you said, if we have a sprained ankle or we have a headache or we have some pain after we work out and we take an Advil that that put a band aid on it and it can get it to, you know, go away for that day. But what's the root cause of it? And I think that's what I try to focus on and I work with the functional medicine doctor to help me figure that out again. I'm like this is so beyond my pay grade, but I'm trying to understand it in the best way that I can, but for me it's it's trying to fix those problems internally and food has been has one of is one of the biggest things I actually talk a lot in the book about how lifestyle in general is so important exercise, taking care of your mental health, sleep, rest, you know, all of those things, reducing your stress, those can all help, you know, internally. Um but but yeah, I think there's also side effects of taking things like in that feel right, Like it actually can increase gut permeability so that we're going we're going back to that kind of, it's like everything to me, circles back to your gut health and so while you can take things to make the pain or the inflammation go away, it could actually have long term side effects that then could cause more health thing. So it's eating in a way that reduces all of that is preventative. You know, like you said, it's it's not just about controlling, like the symptoms as they comments about the long term effects that it can have on your health. Yeah, this this I'm fascinated by the fact that we here in the Western world in It's August of 2021 when we're recording this, that there is still a debate around so much of the things that we receive from the doctor's office, I'm just going to go to steroid because you talk about it in the book and if there's anybody out there who's been on a steroid steroid has this miraculous power, miraculous effect of making you feel better on a very short time window. And simultaneously, I've had people in my life almost die because they were misdiagnosed and it dramatically accelerated the thing that they had, unbeknownst to the and I don't want to throw Western medicine under the bus because there's a lot of things that it does well, but the quick fix and for those people who are watching right now and you've received this or you've received steroids and haven't thought twice about it. The quick fixes often sort of the beginning stages of the cycle of a downward spiral. And um you talked about that, I think, you know, when you were originally diagnosed and you got on a steroid, there was a moment of feeling great and then you talked about the side effects. You know, I think you talked about insomnia was one of your main side effects if I'm remembering correctly from the book. And and yet we then often don't attribute that to the medicine that we're taking. So are you an advocate of avoiding Western doctors? Are you an advocate like, help reconcile this fast paced world where we need to get a pill to fix things and this long term, you know, sustainable. Let's put good things in our body and over time, good things are going to result. Help us reconcile those things? Yeah, I am I an advocate of avoiding Western medicine. Absolutely not. Am I an advocate of being an advocate for yourself, whether you're using Western Western Eastern Natural, whatever you when any of those. Yes, I do think, you know, and I've had talked extensively about all the different doctors that I've had and predniSONE steroids was the first prescription that they would just right, you know, without really asking any questions, without telling you what the side effects would be. And it took me years of being on it first, then avoiding it for years and years before I ever asked is there anything else? You know, and pushing and pushing and pushing about what I could do? And so Western medicine has saved my life multiple times. I had c sections with my Children, I might not have made it through them. I had a really bad flare up that I catalogue in the book my first time being hospitalized with this disease for a decade in 2019. And medication and being in the hospital saved my life at that point. So, I am not opposed to it, but I am 100% and advocate for asking questions and trying to do your own research and challenging your doctors. Um, and really advocating for what you know is best because Yes. So, the predniSONE specifically, I was on 100 mg at one point. Which a lot of people for inflammatory. Yeah, that's usually what people's eyes do when I tell them that um, usually what people do for for, you know, inflammation low lying inflammation. Doctors will prescribe 5 10 mg, You know, something around that. And so 100 gave me every single side effect in the book. I still have long lasting vision problems from being on it. I still have long lasting joint problems for being on it. Um, I also have problems with my metabolism from being on predniSONE all things that, and I've been off of it now for a year and a half was it was the first time I had to take it in over a decade and I took it in the hospital and then weaned off of it and I'm still dealing with the long term side effects of it. So, you know, I think it's really important to understand everything that you're taking, understand the long term potential side effects the long term potential benefits, but that's not really something that you're going to get from most doctors, you know, that's not the way that they've been trained to deal with patients. They also see ton of patients. Um, they also are trying to move a lot of people through to get more people in the door. And so I think you really have to learn to do your own research to, you know, to read about all the things and then way way out your your personal cost benefit analysis of those things. So this I'm just going to keep pulling on this thread because I'm, again, as I mentioned a moment ago, I just, I'm so in awe that we have done so many things well in the modern Western world and how food seems to be this thing that, you know simultaneously is mostly ubiquitous in the Western world and there's still so much complexity when it's I mean you just say the words and it sounds so obvious. If you eat things that are good for you, then you will feel better than if you eat things that are bad for you. And I believe that most people, certainly the people who are listening to the show can in some way identify that an apple is better than an oreo that a, you know, a chicken breast and steamed broccoli is better than uh you know, a um Bologna from 7 11. So so help I guess give us some context of, you know how we don't have to, you know, cook all of our meals from your cookbook as inspiring and tasty as hell as they are. And and like where did this, where did this? Was it just an education process for you how to know what things were good for us in general? Or do you believe that there's an awareness of you can that in pop culture that you can actually eat reasonably healthy and get so many of the benefits like help us navigate the day to day because people have kids and jobs and busy lives and and sure we might, you know, kind of corner now and then you know, I I just had Swedish fish last night we watched the movie Swedish fish and popcorn. But I can tell you it tasted crazy to me because I don't eat that stuff normally. So where do we develop our radar and how do we know what's good for us, what our sources that we can trust. Besides obviously your books are legendary but just orient the common human who's listening and make them feel okay about the choices that they're making and how to make better ones. Yeah, I think it starts with reframing your mindset and your priorities. You know, I mean you mentioned being busy, our culture specifically in this country is to just keep ourselves so busy and cooking and sitting around the table with your family and enjoying a meal and prioritizing actually making something from real foods went to the wayside a long time ago. Um and so I I purposely named the book food saved me because I want to focus on the benefits right? Like I think so much in our culture is villainizing the food and going on a 30 day diet and you know, thinking about all the things that are bad for us and that are you know that are detrimental or making just making making food the bad guy. And I learned over the years that it's actually saving me. It's healing me. It's bringing back you know, sitting around with my kids and my husband around a table and that that need for community and connecting and food to me has always been that it's been the center of family time of you know, meeting meeting new people, having really difficult conversations, having great conversations and so I feel like there's so much that goes into that, but I think the first step is framing food in a positive light that it can bring so much to our, to our daily and just every everyday life right from not only the internal like we're talking about, but just that that aspect, it can be great for our mental health, it can, you know, I mean it's good for for relationships. So I think once you realize that it can be healing and that it can be so beneficial in so many facets of your life, then you start to realize that it should be a priority. And I think I saw that more than ever in 2020 when we didn't have to be running to sports and we didn't have to be commuting to work. We didn't have a billion things happening in our day. We saw more people than ever in their kitchens experimenting with food cooking things because they finally felt like they had the time and I think people want to do it and they appreciate it, but they don't, they don't set time out for it. It's like the last, the last priority. And that's why convenience foods and that's why I drive throughs and that's why frozen foods, you know, have become so popular. So I feel like that's the first step. The second step is to starting out easy, I think it can be really intimidating, especially if you're, if you are really busy and you don't have a lot of time, but thankfully, you know, since I started eating this way in 20 2010, 2000 and nine, there was hardly anything on the market. I mean you, if you wanted to make yourself a meal with the way that I needed to eat, I had to go and get every single single ingredient. You know, it wasn't, there weren't any prepackaged things and now you don't have to make your ketchup from scratch. You don't have to make your, you know like ranch dressing, your beef jerky, all of your site spices like you can actually go to the store and find healthier versions of things that you used to love. So I would say starting there and utilizing some of those great brands that have convenience items is a huge, just good first step to make it feel a little less intimidating. Um, but and then also, you know, starting out a few days a week, but in terms of voices to listen to that, I think lay it out really well. There's two specific doctors dr Mark Hyman and then dr frank Lipman. Those are two that I feel like do it well that, that give you the information that you need, that have very similar, you know beliefs to the way that I eat. But they also kind of give you the why behind it because some people are different like when I was really sick, I didn't want to know why I didn't want to research it. I didn't, I just couldn't deal with it. Just give me the list. Yeah. And I think, you know, for people who are chronically ill or people who are really busy, that's just something they can't, they don't, they don't need to understand or want to know at that point, they're just like give me the bullet points. Let me just get, just get me started. Right. So I think it depends on what you're looking for. I think if you need to figure it out and understand the why first, before you're ready to buy in, then those are two really great, great, great resources to listen to. Yeah. Mark Hyman is awesome. He also talks about food as medicine. He's got a handful of books if you're not familiar with him and his work, thank you for recommending that. Now. One of the things that I love about talking very transparently about food is you have in your newest book, which we are today celebrating food saved me. My journey of finding health and hope to the power of food is the emotional and sort of spiritual dialogue that we have with ourselves. I like to say that the most important words in the world are the ones that we say to ourselves and I have recently come through a period where someone very close to me was, you know, with autoimmune disease And it seemed like there was a psychology around this that was very difficult to manage and watching and observing and trying to help where possible that when you don't feel good, it's very difficult to take helping yourself seriously. And then if you don't help yourself and your oh, well, I'm still going to eat, I'm just going to have one sandwich a day and the bread and that sandwiches from a low quality source. And you know, there's this cycle. And I'm wondering if you can talk about the psychological, the emotional spiritual dialogue that you had to have with yourself. And then well, and then I'd like to explore, you know, how you noticed that the food you were putting in to your body actually helped break that cycle or would you, I mean, I know from the book that you do attribute that to helping break the cycle because there's a bunch of stuff with gut health, but just talk to me about that sphere because you write so eloquently in the book about it. And I think that is a part where people don't even often know that why there don't feel wear than happy that it's a part of what they're eating and how that cycle fuels itself. Yeah. Gosh, yeah, it's a cycle that is, I feel like never ending. I mean, I definitely think I'm I'm in a much better place than I was, but yes, I talk a lot about at the beginning, not only grieving the fact that you've been diagnosed with this disease that's incurable, which autoimmune diseases. I think all of them that I know of do not actually have a cure. Um and so you're dealing with that, the mental effects of that and this ideal that you had for your life, you know, completely now changing and trying to figure out what that's going to look like moving forward. I mean, again, I was 22 my my husband and I have been married for like two months when I got diagnosed. So my whole life that I had laid out while we were engaged and all the thoughts that I had about my career and my future family and what life would look like, you know, all of a sudden was gone and I had to re figure out what that was going to look like with having a disease. Um and then when I figured out that food could help, there was a whole second grieving process of, well, this is everything I know, you know, I thought I was going to host parties and make all my grandma's recipes and I don't know how to cook for thanksgiving using these ingredients. So you go through all of these processes and quite honestly, I stalled my healing by years because I mentally couldn't commit to it. I would try it for a week and then we'd go out to dinner and I'd be like, oh this, I can eat this, you know tonight or we're having friends over, so I'm just going to throw it all out the window today and I'll get back on track on Tuesday and your body can't heal that way. I mean it's essentially like you've got an open wound on your arm and every time it scabs you just keep, you know, taking it off, like it's just never going to have a chance to fully heal if you just keep going back and forth. And so it took me quite a few years to learn that and it was not until my son, my oldest son was nine months old and I was hospitalized again for you know, weeks and I was bedridden for months and I missed his first steps and there was just this really dark time when I couldn't take care of my son, that was like my kind of ah ha moment and I feel like everybody has to have their own, nobody can tell them what to do and have them, you won't stick to it unless you internally decide this is my reason, this is my why I've seen this work and now like I have to, you know, I have to stay this path, but yeah, there's a lot of mental hurdles, not only just from the food side, but to just figuring out what life looks like with that disease and not wanting to be a burden to people Um that's another side with autoimmune, you say, your friend, you know, has not. I mean, the majority of autoimmune diseases are nearly invisible to anybody else that's around that person. I mean, I could look like this and I could be incredibly sick inside. Um, and so there's people who just walk around feeling terrible all the time, but to anybody around them, unless they're vocal about it and really honest, you know, then they may not know that they're they're suffering and that they're struggling. And that's a whole other thing about being in being in your own head and not wanting to burden people, not wanting people, not understanding what you're going through if what was your first step or what would maybe not yours? But what would you recommend? Because this, you can understand the paradox right. Of I don't know, I don't feel myself. I don't feel great. I don't know if I feel bad enough to go to the doctor because the doctor is going to say what's wrong with you. And we already talked about the uh he's going to give me a pill or not tie it to food or maybe she'll, you know, ask me that, you know, change my something else. But what is it, is it blood work? Is it? Where do you for someone who is like, I'm intrigued by this. I don't feel great, haven't felt great for a while. What's, you know, what's the daniel walker prescription of the place to start? Gosh. Well I think it depends if you have a diagnosis or not. I don't think that it can hurt to just do a 30 day elimination diet, the guide kind of in the back. But those things that I talked about cutting out and you have to keep track though, you can't just you know, cut them and then not pay attention. You also can't cut one and not another cut one for a week and then add something like it has to be a systematic approach to you know, doing the elimination. But then adding one food back in at a time to really be able to see what's what's happening. You can't pinpoint something if you're kind of just jumping back into it. Um So I think that could be the first step because I don't think that it can be harmful and then if you don't have a diagnosis. Yes. I mean I still think it's really important to work with the doctor and get the blood work done, get the testing done. So you at least know what you're dealing with because I think there's you know, there's hundreds of different types of autoimmune diseases and then obviously like we've said so many more just different ailments and aches and pains and I think when you can actually pinpoint what you have that can really dictate your you know your path that your your treatment path uh I do really suggest trying to find an in a girl medicine doctor or functional. MD. I really love that they're they're an M. D. And they can prescribe medications when they're needed because that they are needed you know here and there and but that they look they look internally and they're not just putting a band aid on it. They're figuring out why you know what's happening in your body and that is that's blood work that stool tests that's the whole gamut. But they're they're actually running all those things to try to figure out how we can help you know that problem from the inside out rather than just sending you out the door with the band aid that's going to rip off at some point and again in case you missed that that's functional medicine doctors and integrated. Usually those are the two terms that am I ST restating that correctly? Daniel. Yeah. Yeah I mean there's so many different types of practitioners but I found over the years I saw natural paths. I saw you know chiropractors. I saw I saw so many different and they all helped in their own way. But I just felt especially with having such a severe case of my disease. I felt so comfortable being with somebody who I knew if I needed to have preventative measures. Western medicine come in and help save me that they could do that. But that they also weren't just looking to write a prescription and get me out the door. They were really looking to work with me and figure things out. Yeah. Um, I would be a, I think a fair confession if my wife kate was sitting right here, she would feel okay with me saying that she had a lot of food sensitivities and this idea of trying to manage and process all the stuff you got elimination diet and you've got to there is from my personal experience watching kate and reading your book and eating the food that you, you know, my message would be there are you can do this, you can get better and food can still be joyful and a treat and every bit as good if not much better than anything you would be denying yourself. But part of what, you know, there's a great piece of the book. Um, as someone who's ridden shotgun for, I mentioned some family members and my wife's sensitives a number of things. Um, there's a note from Ryan. Yeah, the book and I'm wondering, and this is for if you yourself were listening right now are watching, might not have issues or concerns about people in your life. Um, sorry about yourself, but you do for other people in your life. I'm wondering if you can put a little context. It's just a beautiful, beautiful piece in the, in the epilogue from Ryan. I resonated a lot with it. And so how would you just recap that briefly and then, you know, give us a prescription if you would. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I really was adamant on including him in that book because my story is my story that he's been a part of that and he's had his own struggles with, you know, being the loved one or the spouse of somebody that that suffers with chronic illness. And then again, like that was day one, you know, we got married and we, we practically, I had it from the get go. So I also really wanted him to speak into just the mental and kind of emotional effects that it has on the person that is, is close to somebody because not everybody has an autoimmune disease, but I would bet my life that everybody knows somebody who has something, you know, who is suffering with something and you want to know how to be there for them, you want to know how to be their support system. You want to understand from, you know, what their perspective is, what they go through. I think that's so important. And as the person who is sick, it's so important to have that person, it doesn't matter if it's your spouse, your neighbor, your, you know, your mom, your dad, whoever it is, you can't go out of the loan. And so he came to the book with the perspective of just trying to give some very, he's a very analytical, very, just like to the point person, he's an engineer. Um, and so he kind of wrote while mine is very story oriented, his is like here's, here's some bullet points, here's how to like jump in and be the person that's the support system for, you know, your wife, for your sister, your mom. And then he also wrote from the perspective of here's how you have to take care of yourself because being a quote unquote caretaker, you know, even though I'm not sick all the time, there are very, very hard places in our life where he's really had to step in and be, you know, both mom and dad to our three kids, be the advocate for me at the hospital with my doctors when I'm incapacitated and can't speak be the one that's you know, working full time, but also trying to get kids to school and sports and it can be really, really draining and you know, when I'm going through it, unfortunately I can't really think of much else besides just trying to get better and get out of the hospital or get back to my kids or you know what not. And so he gave some really practical tips for just also how to take care of yourself as the caregiver and how when he realized, you know, he, he is what, you know what's the saying, you can't, you can't drink from an empty cup is that the right way and just realizing like an oxygen mask on before other passengers. Yes, all of those, all those things, you know, and so yeah, he really realized that like if he was wearing himself down to nothing, then he couldn't be there for, for me, for the kids, for himself, for his job. And so just some really practical tips on how to take care of yourself and also how to be there and be the support system for the, for your loved one. And I think it's, it's essential, um, for, for people to try to understand. And that's kind of my hope for the book is even if you don't suffer with something particularly that you'll be able to read it and know how to be there for somebody that you left. It's as someone who has been in that role. It was so eye opening and a lightning and please thank Ryan for me. And I think there's, this is a great relationship between the person who's trying to fix their gut or has had food sensitivities or having free bid something as extreme as you went through hospitalization. But you know, there's a um, just the relationship that, that if you have as a friend or partner to that person and the self care that you talked about and Ryan just did such a great job. So please give him a thank you. Um, I also want to take a moment and um, it's just express a sincere aspect of gratitude because I think you are just the path. I'm watching your journey from cookbooks to now this memoir and to me, we are in a moment where food is, there's more awareness about quality food than ever before. The belief that it used to be so expensive in order to eat this way that well that that's that persists that perception may persist some places you've done such a good job and there are so many great resources in food saved me even just lists of keywords, I remember like just of course lists of things to a void, but listen, like not just in the negative things, like here's what you should look for. Grass fed, sustainable hormone free wild caught these. There's a vocabulary that if you're listening to this food is of interest to you, if you don't feel your best, this is a great, very reasonable and rational place to start get a functional medicine doctor, get an integrated doctor. So this is just a thank you for being part of the solution for our culture. It is super inspiring to read your story. Um I cannot recommend your book enough and just a heartfelt. Thank you. It's incredible the work that you've done. Thank you. I appreciate that. I try, I've always tried to make it as approachable for everybody as I could because I know the feeling of feeling really intimidated and having it be really daunting. So and again, I'm just like a normal person and so I try to every take everything that I learned and put it back out there in normal person terms. So I appreciate that. Thank you for being vulnerable to its, you know, so many books start if you're, you know, if you never are imperfect and you just eat perfect forever, then you'll never be sick versus coming from a vulnerable place where health has been challenged or you're eating, you know, you're trying to reconcile this. I know it's good for me, but I just love pizza or whatever. So there's so many of those things that like, you've taken these rough edges off of a culturally charged topic and thank you for inspiring me. I'm a big, I'm I'm a foodie because I love food. And so I originally was attracted to your cookbooks and to get the rest of the story has been eye opening and super important. So congrats congrats on the new book. And again, I do, I want to just re say it again for those folks uh in case you missed it. Uh food saved me my journey of finding health and hope to the power of food. Um just congrats, it's so good. And I also steer people if I may to your blog, which where you've always got my recipes and stuff going on. But now that I've got to say all my stuff and tell people where to go please. Is there any place in the world or on the internet that you would direct the attention of this community who was listening and whose attention you have right now. I mean I hang out the most on Instagram so you can find me there at Daniel Walker, like you said free recipes over on my blog, we're throwing a book release party on September 13, you know this day and age, it's going to be digital had to cancel the in person tour, which is a bummer but we've got really fun things planned so you can tune in and we'll be cooking. I'll be telling more of my story. The special guest, we've got giveaways that September 13 and you can, you can find tickets, you can just go to my instagram and find them there. But yeah, that's that's what we've got going on right now, other than this, this book released and then yeah, and you get guy raz right, co hosting that with Iran's is co hosting from a friend of the community here. So check it out And again, epic book, congratulations! So well timed and I'm really excited to see this. Hit the bestseller list again. Oh gosh, I four already. Right, 433, I've written four books. Yeah, you know one was the elusive new york times one did not hit it. But yeah, you know this one for me is it's just I don't even care about those things. I just wanted to try, I want to help people, I, I put my soul in every bump and setback and every triumph into that book and helps of hoping that other people would have less bumps, you know, that they could learn from the things that I learned from and so yeah, as long as it gets into the hands of people who need it, that's all that matters to me. But it would be nice, it would be fingers crossed. You don't need those accolades anymore. You're on to a higher mission. Thank you. And I'm also going to sneak one other recommendation there. Speaking to my community here. The book, eat what you love everyday, comfort food is awesome. That's just awesome. My wife and I cook ready. I think that was, you know, a book from like 2018 or something like that where I originally got through with your work so much good stuff and if you like concepts just like, oh, I like the rich cheesy pastas and I like all these things and you've just got great solutions in there and uh, it's been a big part of our lives, so thank you again, I appreciate that. Not to put you on the spot, but what's your favorite recipe from the book? Well, kate does most of the cooking out of the book. So a lot of, a lot of uh substitution for things like using cauliflower instead of crappy rice grains using um oh, all the one pot stuff, Oh my gosh, okay so yeah just if if you're new to this instapot or one pot like you put everything in there um because kate and I have professionally both very busy so I mean just she throws all this stuff in there and then you know we come home and a couple hours later you've got this incredible meal and You know there's a vibe of like casserole from the 70s that doesn't you know it's not like that at all, it's so fresh. I mean We were on an instapot tear. A friend of ours gave us one and like your cookbook was the go to for that so anything out of anything out of the instapot Anyway again big fan thanks so much. I appreciate it, awesome. Thanks again good luck on your tour uh Friends you know you know that it's really important to support Danielle uh in the week of her pub so now go check it out please pre order food saved me. You will not be disappointed until next time everyone out there in the internet land. I bid you that you mm no mm