Go from Underestimated to Unstoppable with Jamie Kern Lima
Hey, buddy, what's up? Welcome to another episode of the Chase Jarvis Live show here on Creative Live. You know the show where I sit down with amazing humans and today's amazing human is Jamie Kern Lima. She's This is her book. The human is going to be coming up in just a second, but Jamey's story is incredible. This one time Ray Trist turned into a cosmetic mogul when she sold her company it cosmetics, for a billion plus dollars. That's right, a billion with a B. And today you get to hear her story with radical authenticity. Vulnerability. And if you've ever had self doubt, if you've ever needed a little extra Kurds to take some risks, especially in the face of a lot of people around you telling you what your big dream is is not going to work. This episode is for you, so I'm going to get out of the way and introduce again. Jamie Kern Lima. We're going to talk about a lot of things. Her story, her new book, Believe it and I know you're gonna love the show so I'll get underway. And here...
's Jamie. Yeah, no Jamie Curren Lima. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored and excited to be here. Thank you. Well, I have been tracking your story for some time on the Internet, and, um, what an amazing story it has been. And I'm watching from the outside. I'm so excited to have you on the show here today to do what we can to share with our listeners and watchers. Um, your journey, how you've overcome some amazing obstacles and created an incredible company and maybe even more importantly, incredible life for yourself. So for those folks who might be new to you and your work, I'm wondering if you can, You know, this is the opening shot of the film here. Ground us in Jamie Kern Lima's life. Uh, well, thank you so much. Yeah, and I want to say I'm honored to share like the story behind the story. You know what I mean? And I think that when you google my life or my story, you see, oh, Denny's waitress builds billion dollar company, and it's kind of the highlight reel, and it seems like a fairy tale and you know, part of why I wrote Believe it. And partly I'm so excited to do the show with you, as I think that what I've realized over the years is when we just see, like, that headline, Um, you know, then you know, all of us as creators. And, you know, people with dreams are going to watch a business. We kind of feel like we're alone in our own rejections and failures. And And I realized, I think that it's so important to share, you know, all the stories behind the stories. Um, because, you know, we're all in this together, as as creators and idea haters and all of that. Just people with dreams on our hearts. And so, yeah, my story. I wasn't Denny's waitress and, uh, and have had a lot of other, uh, jobs as well. And And I, um, you know, kind of knew my whole life, though, since the time I was a little girl sitting in my living room watching Oprah every day, I thought, I want to share other people's stories, um, as my job and I always dreamed about my whole life, and so I eventually I was working in what I thought was my dream job. I was working as a television news anchor, and I was able to interview other people and tell their stories. And, uh, something happened to me chase that I thought at the time was like a big setback. Um, I was, you know, I developed a skin condition all over my cheeks and my face, and it's called Rosetta, which is hereditary, so there's no cure for it. And I would be anchoring the news live. Um, and I would hear my ear piece from my producer. Uh, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. Uh, you need to wipe it off. You need to wipe it off. And And they were having my back, you know, they're awesome. And they just wanted the best for me. And I was like, but I knew there was nothing I could wipe off. I knew it was, uh the makeup would be breaking up. And then under the hot HD lights, the bright red rose ation would be coming through. And so I went through this season that that I thought was a big set back where I started. Uh, we're really dealing with a lot of self doubt and a lot of like, oh, am I going to get fired? And am I going to lose viewers and all the things, Um uh and so I saw dermatologists and learned there's no cure for it. And I spent my paycheck on pretty much every possible makeup products I could find from like the super expensive department store ones that I couldn't afford at the time, all the way to the drugstore ones and the pro makeup artist products and nothing would work. And it was this kind of moment where I got this inkling, like a lot of us who have created something or no, we want to one day like we get this this feeling, And I got this feeling that did not make sense in my head. But it made sense in my gut that said, like, you know, if you can figure out how to create a product that works for you, it's probably gonna help a whole lot of other people. But I'm sitting there chase and what I thought was my dream job, and I keep having this feeling, but I'm supposed to give up on on on my dream and start a new one. Um, even though I had had no connections, I knew nothing about the beauty industry had very little money. Anyone out there has worked as a journalist will know you get paid very much. Um, but it was this moment, and I think, you know, in the last decade, in particular of my journey and my story, there's a lot of things I've done wrong, and I share all of those in my book for the first time. But there's also like when I look back at the things I did right, they kind of all come down to like the start of this moment where, um I, you know, made the decision, um, to to listen to my gut and to trust myself even when it didn't make sense. And I kind of learned this lesson that, like sometimes it's because we live in this culture where everyone's like, just don't quit, just don't give up. But I actually think that that's not the victory. I think the victory is is learning to listen to are getting like, knowing that, you know, letting go of a dream. Sometimes it's as important as knowing when to go after one. Um, and it's the knowing right, that's that's the victory. So I made the decision to quit my dream job and go all in on creating a business that I had no idea how to launch. Um, and I had no idea how hard being an entrepreneur would be. There's a a quote that's attributed to Elon Musk, which is doing a startup is like eating glass and staring into the abyss. And when people, you know, I think there's a it's been largely romanticized in our culture, starting your own business. But I I imagine just from what I learned in the book and just to get it out there up front, your book is incredible. Congratulations. And I want to plug it hard core here just in the 1st 10 minutes of our conversation, which it's called, Believe it, how to go from Underestimated, unstoppable, uh, and for anyone who's listening right now, this is if you've got self doubt. If you want to gain the courage to take these risks, the ones that Jamie started sharing just a moment ago, and we'll share with us throughout the show um, this idea of trust, managing, rejection, whether that is, you know, even in your inner circle, your family or you know what the world thinks? It's an absolute must read. I've read so many of these books from entrepreneurs, and yours is special and different. Um, so thank you for writing it, but, you know, back to your back to your story, a handful of things that you said jumped out at me that I want to put a pin in and come back to the You talked about the role of quitting, and I couldn't agree more that this concept of sure, you know, always push through. And I think if you had owned that idea in the way that it's talked about in our culture, you'd probably still be, uh, TV journalist. So what is the difference between quitting what you thought was your dream job or what is the balance between quitting what you thought was your dream job and trusting your intuition too? You know, do something outside of that that seems risky and unknown and scary. Help us understand how you know what was going on in your mind. Because there's so many people right now listening that are like, That's me, that's I got a good thing. I want to chase my dreams. I want to trust my gut but I'm not quite sure what it's telling me. Yeah, And I think learning to, like, get still and actually hear our own gut is so important. And I think it's so hard. I think that, you know, we all I believe Chase. I believe we all have this knowing, right, like to your point. There's so many people probably listening right now, watching right now. But if they were to just get still for a minute and then check in with their get even if they're rusty on doing this right, they usually know if they're in the right job or in the right relationship, or if they need to, maybe and a friendship. Or they know if they have more inside of them, like and and and it's on their heart to write a book or to take that first step and and start photography, right, whatever that that is, if we get still. I really believe we all have that knowing, and I think that learning, you know, one of the things I talk a lot about a lot in the book is you know, how do you start building that muscle again of intuition and learning to trust it? Because I think you know, for something it's a life for so many of us. It's a lifelong journey of really learning how, and it's like we keep refining our intuition as we go. But what I see happening now and you know the blessing of mentoring, you know, so many entrepreneurs now and a lot of women, and what I see happening so often is that, you know, as we go on in life, we literally stop learning how to hear our own gut and stop listening to it. And I think part of that is because first of all, the noise of self doubt in our own inner critic gets so loud all around us that sometimes it's hard to even break through and know what is our own knowing anymore. Um, we then often have, you know, other people's opinions, and sometimes that can come in the form of people we love so much like our inner circle, our friends, our family, who who love us and often and usually they'll Meanwhile. But they often can't see the potential of our own hopes and dreams because they're seeing it through the lens of their own limitations, right in their own fear and their own life experience. And so all of a sudden we have, you know, all the noise of everything. And by the way, anyone who's been an entrepreneur or is right now often we all share it right. We share an experience where, you know, at some point I mean, I can share my own At some point when I was getting no traction in my business the first three years I had so many people say, like, Are you sure you should have quit your job? You know, Are you sure you're qualified to be doing this? Are you like I love you, but I'm worried about you are you know, all those things, right? And we have to be so careful because at some point that noise can get so loud to, um then if anyone out there who's going through an experience like I went through for a number of years, I had when I first launched the business, you know, I had these experts that I would put on a pedestal, And in my case it was all the department stores that you know, as a Denny's waitress. I would save my tip money to buy a makeup products in one of those department stores. And I just thought, Wow, if they carry my product, this is going to be amazing And all the Q v c uh, and the beauty retailers, I put them on a pedestal. And so for the first three years in my business, when all of them said no over and over and over and said I wasn't the right fit or, uh, I needed to not use real women as models, I needed to do you know, the I call it antiquated standard of beauty, which is like flawless Photoshop skin. They all told me that's what I need to do to sell a product. And it was three years of them basically saying, and some of them in these actual words, you're not the right fit, um, for us or for our customers. And you know, So we get experts telling us that or for a lot of us, it's just like no traction that we thought was going to happen with our dream or our idea for our creation or our sales of our of our product, our business. So we have all of that and and then we turn the news on and we're like, Right, so all of this is going on and it's It's so hard if we don't take a big step back And this is one of the things that again I share so much that I did wrong to. It'll hopefully save people a lot of nights crying themselves to sleep. But one of the things I did right was like Learn how to really get still and hear my own knowing and my own my own knowing that said, You're supposed to keep going or you're not. And to me, trusting ourselves when we learn to hear ourselves and trust ourselves, Um, that's the victory in life. The victory isn't like, oh, building a billion dollar company or oh, this. To me, it's it's learning how to get still and trust are knowing and know that we're on our own path of becoming all of who we are, Um and who were born to be and I think what happens because it's so easy to let this happen is all the noise from everyone else and our own self doubt. All of it gets so loud that it becomes so much easier to just, like, stay in our comfort zone and not go after the dream when when it seems hard or not, keep going, even though you know what I mean. Even though, like we feel like we should, it becomes easier to just stay in our comfort zone, which comes, like comes at the price of, I think, the source of Chip away at our sole. Um, we start to risk talking ourselves out of our own truth and never become the person were born to be not to be all dramatic on your show, but like that's how we want to be what it is. It's like we literally can talk ourselves out of our own truth and never become the person were born to be. And how many people do we know that have done that? So many the majority right? And that's what I think is the biggest challenges as a creator, as someone with a dream on your heart is someone who knows you have more to give or serve or love is. How do you step into that? Um, so true and and like, it's hard to overstate. I want to join in your symphony here. This this idea that the advice comes from people that you admire, you spent so much time learning about and thinking about. As you said, and some of the people that are closest to you that love you dearly and don't want, I certainly don't want to see you in pain. And I think those that those voices are trusted is part of what makes playing through and trusting your gut and following your intuition, all the things you said so hard. And so to underscore your point. Quiet, still awareness of who you are and and what you believe in it. It sounds easy just to say, Listen to that, But I believe it's hard. And so I'm wondering if you can share some of the specifics. Do you go on a You know, 10 days of a pasta. No talking retreat. Do you, um, you know, go on. A long sojourn in the mountains. Is it a daily meditation? Mindfulness prayer practice like, what are what are some of the things that you did to actually quiet the noise? Because right now everyone would like to quiet those voices in their head, but help us see it through your eyes. I've never done one of those retreats, but I would love to. My wife, my wife, is a super retreat. Er she is like she teaches meditation of mindfulness. So she's always gone for 10 days and comes back like this enlightened being. And I'm toiling away and doing the dishes or whatever, but I to endeavor to do that one day. But I want to know what Your what? Your processes. Yeah. So, um, you know, for me, I and I think everyone can do this. I think that it all starts and this is how I started because, you know, my at the end of the day, my book is a is not just some big business success story. My book is really a story about a girl who went from not believing in herself, um, to believe in yourself and not knowing how to hear my own intuition, right to learning how and then and then learning how to trust it, Um, and really a journey of going from downing on enough to knowing I'm enough. And, you know, I just think, you know, it's the story of so many other people right now, um, as well, on their own journey of learning to do that, learning to believe in themselves and trust themselves and know their enough. And for me, it started with really, like, really basic, simple, simple, like taking 3 to 5 minutes a day. That's it. And you can. For some people, they have chaos going on in their house. They have kids running everywhere. They have all this stuff, right? Especially especially right now in this in the season that we're in. And so, you know, it can be a simple even as you know, going and sitting in the car. And a lot of parents will understand that one going and sitting in the car by yourself for two minutes or, you know, going into your bathroom and closing the door and it starts. Just I think the best way for me I've been able to really build my intuition over the years is just to take 2 to 5 minutes and actually start to learn. What does it even feel like? What? What do I even think and feel in my knowing about anything, right? And I think for a lot of people that start this because for a lot of people hearing their own knowing it will be the first time ever, the first time in a long time once they start doing this again. And I think that it's critical to everything in life to get back in touch with this. But, you know, it can be as simple as 2 to 5 minutes of literally just sitting there and just saying What do I feel and think? And, you know, asking yourself a question, seeing if you answer it for a lot of people, By the way, this is how they hear God or whatever, faith as they practice through their own gut or their own intuition. Um, and you know, I think it's something that we all have to give ourselves grace in the process of because, you know, I think at least what happened for me, and I know a lot of other people, too. Is that you know, you try to do it and just like trying to meditate for the first time. You're like, Oh, I tried to do it, but I'm running through my to do list in my own mind. And you know, all the things of the day is like, that's so normal and and you have to give yourself grace and really work on building that muscle. The other thing is to really start to pay attention and think through, um, you know are their experiences in your life where you trusted yourself that that gut feeling and it worked and really reflect on those right and and and pay attention to them and also are there times when you just had this gut feeling like maybe you're dating and you have this feeling like, Oh, he's sketchy And, uh, he says his phone broke for three days in a row. Uh, and you know, you know, he or she is lying, you know? Right. But you make the decision to ignore your gut, and then, you know, we always in the treatment and it plays out, but like paying attention to like all the time, because for all of us, we have those moments in life continually and a lot of times we just go so fast through life We're so busy we live almost numb in a way and and we disconnect or disassociate from from those moments that are our most powerful teachers. Um, and listen, I think I I continuously do this to this day, as as I look back and and one of the things that I look back at, some of the biggest miscalculations I've had our mistakes. I've made a lot of times they come down to not listening to my gut and and we're doubting it, you know, thinking, Oh, you know. And you know, one story just to share is after three years of hearing no, from, you know, all of these beauty retailers because I launched the company in my living room and couldn't afford to hire anyone for the first three years. And my husband and I were just kind of doing every job we possibly could do and I got to. The point was so scrappy, chased like my middle name is Marie and Marie got her own email address at one point, so as Marie at cosmetics dot com, and she was heading customer service and PR and like if this were today, Marie would be emailing, you know, Chase Jarvis, Great news. Our founders available for an interview and like she would pitch Good Morning America, everybody and often get no reply, um, or ignore. But Marie hustled and you know, we did so many scrappy things for years when we couldn't afford to hire anyone when all these retailers were saying no and then I'll never forget 11 powerful story to share in case someone listening needs to hear this right now. Maybe they're going through a season of rejection or they're going through a season of being told they're not enough or just feeling like they're not enough. Um, I remember. And by the way, I would email linked in everyone in Lincoln who worked at Q V, C or Sephora or anywhere I would email them and send them product. And just it was just three years of hustling, and everyone's saying no, and we finally got it. Finally gotten a guy named Alan Burke, who had who headed all of beauty at q v c. Um, to review my products and get on a phone call with me, and he is in the beauty industry. He's a legend, right? So he's responsible for bringing all of the really amazing department store brands we all know on two Q V C, which QVC's alive television shopping channels So it's broadcast to 100 million homes live and their sales goals are super high. Um, and what I learned I've watched your clip so many times. It's incredible. Yeah, it's amazing. So I I don't want to interrupt, but it's just it is if you haven't watched it. Yeah, of course, it's incredible. Well, you know what I didn't so I didn't know a lot of things going into this experience in my life. But, you know, I learned from other entrepreneurs that you can sell more in an hour show on Q V C then all year in department stores because so many people watch and they have such a large, loyal customer following. And so anyhow, I finally got Alan Burke on a phone call, and I thought, Okay, we were down to no money. I didn't know how we were going to survive, and I'll never forget. Like, you know, the phone rang and and, uh, and he's like, Hello, Jamie Allen Berg from Q V c. And I just thought, Oh my gosh, it's just a legend is going to be on the phone with me and spend his precious time. It's got to be a yes, right? It's got to be Yes, and I was like, Oh, in And I was trying to muster up every ounce of confidence, and I was trying to tell myself like They're lucky to have this like, Like, be confident, Jamie. They're lucky to have us even though they had to know for years, right? And so I finally I was pacing around. I'll never forget. I was pacing around our office, which is our living room in our apartment, And I said, Uh, Alan, it's Jamie Crime Lima. Thank you so much. And I'm so excited And he says, Well, I want to let you know we've reviewed your products with all of our buyers. Um, it's a unanimous agreement that it's a no, we're gonna pass. You're not right for Q V C or for our customers are not the right fit. Uh, but thank you. And so right away I went into like, Oh, but I am the right fit and I try to like for my heart out again to getting him, and he's like, Thank you for loving PVC, but it's a no. And I remember this moment because tears were streaming down my face because I didn't know how we were going to stay in business. And I thanked him for his time, and I literally crawled under the covers in my bed and cry myself to sleep and then woke up the next morning hoping it was a dream. It's a bad dream if you've ever had that happen when you get really bad news and then you right and you wake up and you're like it was real And so that happened three days in a row And I remember this this time and this is the These are the moments I think that define us in life when we can really learn to hear our knowing, Um, I talk a lot in the book about creating this imaginary toolbox, um, of things I pull from, like it could be quotes. It could be excerpts from your show, right? It could be, you know, I've store underdog stories. I have things that just remind me of who I am, what I made of, um, and I pulled from them when I need it. And so I was, you know, doing that. And I was also just checking in and even sobbing myself to sleep three days in a row when I would get still and check in with my own gut. Kept saying I was supposed to keep going. Um and these are the moments I think that define our life because I didn't know at that time I would create what is now the largest beauty company in the country, right? Like I didn't know any of that. All I knew is for three years, everyone said no. And I finally got the head guy Alan Burke on on a phone calls legend in the beauty space, and he tells me I'm not the right fit for for QB's here for him, and three days later, I still after crying for the I check in with my gut and it says you're supposed to keep going. You're doing what you're supposed to be doing that you're you're not supposed to quit and and and and that knowing and making that decision to trust it um is how I kept going and, you know, to put a really fun bow on this story in case anyone listening needs this right now, we all needed Jamie, just like you know what Chase. It's like sometimes we go through these seasons of rejection and and they don't make sense and they hurt. And it's so easy. Two. Have them all equate to just self doubt in our own head and doubt of our dreams. And that's why I just think, checking in with our knowing and trusting and it's so important. But I am. You know, I kept going and kept going, uh, and and And when I shared this story in the book and it's a long one, so I'll skip it now, but I'll skip the how. But eventually through a trade show through a really cool moment through a gutsy moment of me taking a big risk, um, got a yes, uh, to get one shot on T v c. So this is after three years of knows we were dead. We got down to under $ in our bank account, which was our personal and our company combined and and I finally got one shot and our first really big yes to go on T v c. And but here's what that meant, Chase. It meant, um and we were only selling 2 to 3 orders a day on our website, right? That barely staying alive and I learned Okay, you get one shot, you're gonna get one shot to present your product. Live on T V. C. And you're gonna get a 10 minute window. Um, and you either need to hit the sales goal or not come back. I was like, Okay, um, and what that meant was I had to sell over units of our concealer. Um, we're only doing 2 to 3 or there's a day on our site and is over 6000 years of concealer in 10 minutes in 10 minutes. Live on live television. No script, no teleprompter, uh, nothing. And and then on to top it all off, um, and anyone who runs a business where they're making product, they'll understand this part. But it was a consignment deal, and what that meant was we had to pay for all the own inventory ourselves, ship it in, and we wouldn't get paid for anything except for what? End up selling in that 10 minute window and whatever and whatever didn't sell would be shipped back to us. Uh, are you own it? You own it then, because we were only doing 2 to 3 orders a day. It was like, Oh, if anything got shipped back to us, I mean, there was nowhere to sell, like we like, we would be completely out of business and bankrupt. And so it was a really tough decision. But after three years of everyone saying no, we decided to take this risk and applied for s b A loans That all said no. And the 23rd s b A loan gave us enough money to cover just the inventory cost of this one shot on PVC. So it's a It's a moment that would end up being one of the most defining moments, uh, in my whole career, but also life so far. Um, I think it's a universal moment. Uh, because, you know, a lot of times all of us will have moments where we know what we stand for. We know what we believe in, but then all of a sudden our values are challenged. Um, or everything is on the line. And and that's that's what happened here. And I you know, we made all the inventory, did everything, uh, and we're ready to get our one shot on T v. C. And I was so stressed out and felt so much pressure because I knew this one shot would would, like, literally make or break our whole company. Um, so I flew out to Q V C a week early before the one airing, and I sat in this rental car in the parking lot, uh, praying, crying, uh, so overwhelmed, because what ended up happening was, you know, we hired third party consultants, um, that are experts, and they help so many people sell their products live on TV. They're amazing. But they all told us the same thing. Which is that Okay, if you want your best shot at success in this 10 minute window, you need to hire, you know, you need to use these types of models that all have perfect skin. And I'm like, Okay, but that's exactly why I'm not doing the business like I'm doing this to try and actually shift culture and beauty and do something bigger than myself. And I have this vision that I'm gonna, you know, use. You know, models have real skin problems and all ages and shapes and sizes and skin tones. And and and they would they would just look at me and tell me like, Listen, if you want our advice and the best shot at success, here's what you need to do. And so I started arguing with them and saying, Okay, but I get that's how it's always been done and I get That's the only way it's been successful so far. But intuitively, if I'm sitting at home watching this TV show and I see models that don't look like me, how do I know the product's gonna work for me? And we would kind of get into it. I was like, What if I just take my makeup off on national T V and show my bright red rose Atia? Um, and they were mortified at that idea, you know what I mean? And so it was really tricky, because sometimes we have moments in life where, like we have to decide, Do you put the like like do you put the experts on a pedestal or your own intuition? On what? You know what I mean. And that's hard and especially hard when everything is on the line. Um, so I sat in that car and cried because I just felt like the right thing in time and just it felt like such a big decision. And I thought, Okay, well, what if I do what they're saying to do, and then I become successful? Then I try it my way like, Well, I know you can't make authenticity, you know what I mean? And I would have regrets if I did that, and so I knew what I needed to do. But it's like sometimes we know the right thing to do, but it doesn't, but it's a hard thing to do. Um, and I sat there in that car and kept, and I think a lot of creators or people that have vision, um, and big dreams will be able to connect with this where I just sat there and said, Why am I doing what I'm doing? And who am I doing this for? And I kept imagining, like, who would that woman be watching on the other end. Uh, if I was going to get one shot, uh, and that's it. And I kept imagining, like a single mom in Nebraska folding laundry. For some reason, I imagine it, like, who was too busy to remember she mattered and that she is beautiful and all those things. And if she was going to give me a few seconds of her precious time and turn the television on and see me like I'd rather have her see me showing women who look like her calling them beautiful, meaning it and have her not by anything. Like I'd rather do that than sell a ton of product and stand for nothing. And I was like, I knew what I had to do, but I lost it. Scared. Um and you know, the to complete the story 10 minutes. We know we love like, this is this is why this format exists. Please, Jamie, just keep going. This is amazing. Well, thank you for sharing this. I mean, I just feel like we're all in this together, You know what I mean? And it's also it's part of why I wrote this book, but also like part of what? I'm so excited to be on your show and thank you again for having me, as I think when we share these real stories, right, Because no one would know these things and they just go. Oh, there's a really She made it. Yeah, totally. And I thought you ever see online. Oh, she made it, Um, so, you know, But these are universal experiences. I think a lot of people don't talk about it. And when you look on social media, you just see everyone's highlight reel, and you don't see the rejection or the pain or any of the things that we go through and when we don't see them. And we just feel alone in them, you know? And so we're comparing our day to day crappy experiences of the, you know, forgetting to turn the dryer on before you go to bed, so that when you wake up, your clothes are wet. We have the experience of getting a parking ticket, and we're comparing all those aspects of our lives to everyone else's highlight reel that you see on TV or in your in your case, the product in the store. Um and I agree it's toxics, and I want to say Thank you for having the courage to be as vulnerable as you are in the book. I want to dive into one specific thing, which is your language is precise. You talk about loving yourself and recognizing beauty and trust and intuition and even the term seasons. I think you know, I want to explore that in a second, because sometimes you talk about our life being a certain way. But when it really if you step far enough back and you look your seasons and just like you know it's 41 raining here in Seattle right now, it's going to be 75 sunny in, you know, in three months, and we forget that. But I want to go back to language because you talk so much about it. And I'm wondering, Did you have the language before you became successful or did was the success because it was a success because of your language? Or did you develop it after you were successful looking backwards? These this the way you're programming your mind, I can tell. It's so maybe it's not intentional. Or maybe it's not precise, but it appears from where I'm sitting that these words of trusting intuition, love care, values like those are all those are those shine or are very dim in the brightest or darkest days of our lives. And I'm wondering, is that Is that a programming that you you learned across those three years I've seen the pictures of your living room where your, you know, your your office, as you were where Marie worked, Like what came first? Your success or the language? Yeah, I think, uh, I think in parallel, because I think I, uh, tried to always pay attention to how what is it that's making me feel, um uh, like, this is right And what's not feeling fulfilling and and And what I mean by that is, you know, uh, there were times where I was doing 100 hour weeks for years, and I learned, oh, following sales numbers didn't feel fulfilling. But reading customer letters where women are bawling their eyes out or saying you know, they feel confident for the first time first time in a long time or that they they don't even wear makeup, they don't want to buy our products but that they feel beautiful because we're showing real women and whatever it was right when I read those things, I actually realized, Oh, what I'm doing is bigger than myself. And I feel, uh, the day more I feel like what I do matters. I feel like, Oh, I can't just show up again and do another show on autopilot because this isn't about me. It's about the blessing of someone else sharing this. You know, it sounds like I learned what felt what felt good and what felt right and what didn't, um and I think, I think, for a lot of us, whether you're a creator or or or maybe you're someone who's achiever based, a lot of my friends who are achievers, which is a lot of entrepreneurs. We kind of all learned this, that if we just focus on that big goal or that big achievement, it's kind of never enough. It's like, Okay, then what's next? And it's never it never will like. It never fills your soul and, you know, along the journey, just learning what fills my soul and paying attention to it, Um, and part of that in terms of language part of that was also learning that the only way I'm going to actually, uh, make an impact is to also not make it about me, right? So even just, you know, what's one thing that started happening naturally? As And I would go on PVC, Um, I didn't talk about like I would talk. I guess you is probably the most common word I would use because I knew it wasn't about me. Um, and even even to the moment, you know that where we got this one shot, I had this realization chase in the in this biggest moment. Probably my career, which was after crying in the parking lot, freaking out all the things for a week before before the airing. I remember walking in the studio and that one that one shot that 10 minute window. Um, I saw the clock on the floor that said 10 minutes. Uh, I had thought that I knew what I was going to do in the 10 minutes I had produced this whole thing. Written it all out, like start to finish. I was gonna do this demonstration on my wrist, and I practiced in my bathroom mirror to show how our concealer is better than the top two department stores and all this stuff. And I walked in the studio and the host because they pair you with a Q B C host. And then you're the You're the guest, right? That's supposed to explain your product. The host was awesome and amazing. Uh, and I shared with her what I want to do, and this is like two minutes before the live show and she says, Okay, thank you, Sugar. But here's what we're going to do. And so everything I had planned was out the window, and I was just like, okay, like, you know, and I knew I could try. I mean, they're so good at their jobs. I knew I could trust her, but it's also just scary when everything is on the line. And so, as we stood there in the studio, live right about to go live to 100 million homes and I see this clock and it's like 10 minutes. And then and then I learned right. I learned that you're not guaranteed the 10 minutes if you start selling and you're a minute or two in and you're not hitting their numbers. Your minutes jump. So you boom, you're down to the two minutes and you just lost six minutes, which is a lot of money, like all the things. And so there's so much pressure. And so I remember the 10 minute clock. And remember, it was like 9. 39 9, 58. And I was like, like, live on national television. Yeah, company. And when you talk about language and about where and when it develops for me, I remember the moment in real time of this happening where we're like, 98 97. And I was like, I would go in and out of being bigger than myself or being about myself and and And this, I think, is important for any creator. Any any person. Um, any leader, any business owner. Um, any person. Really. But what I mean by this is remembering that live moment with all the pressure in the world I would go. I would make it about myself for a second and think things like, Is my dress too tight on national television? I remember feeling like sweat running. This is so gross. But I was so nervous, like sweat running down my back and was like, Are my Spanx going to catch this? Like So I started thinking these thoughts, which is about me, and I knew in that moment if I make if I even waste any of my time and my one shot making this about me, I'm done like like I really wanted to shift culture in the beauty industry. I really wanted to do something bigger than myself. And so in that moment I knew I knew that and I knew it had to be about her. And so you know. And so then I remember walking over to all the models. They're all ages and shapes and sizes and skin tones and and calling the beautiful and meaning it. And and having this experience, remember my bright red barefaced rose Asian film Face came up on national tv. Um, and I just remember the whole thing. And then there was, like, a minute left, Uh, and the host says, uh, the deep shade is almost gone. The tan shade is down to 200 units or something, and I was like and I remember at the 10 minute mark that sold out sign came up across the screen and I literally start sobbing on TV, and my husband came running through the double doors and, um, of the studio. And I'm like, crying. I'm like, real women have spoken and he's like, We're not going bankrupt And this whole thing and I was like, What? And that one that one airing turned into five that year, 100 1 the next year, and we eventually got over 250 live shows a year for eight years and still at this moment, uh, and built the largest beauty brand in QVC's history. Uh, and it is right now at this moment and only share that because it was it was three years of nose and being told you're not the right fit, and, um and I just think that, like, no one can tell you you're not the right fit. You know what I mean? No one can tell you that your dream isn't gonna work, and no one can tell you that. Uh, yeah, but you're not the right fit or that you're not. You know that That that that your vision isn't going to be successful. Um, and I don't think. I think most people don't mean bad. I think they want the best for you there again. Even experts sometimes just see things through their own experience that they've only seen one thing worked before. And you're doing something novel or you're doing something only the way you're going to do it. Then just by definition is novel. And I think a lot of times even experts who are amazing and meanwhile are only capable of seeing things as being successful if they've already seen them done before. And I learned that. And the last part of this chase is that Alan Burke, the guy who is the head of all beauty, right? Who? Who said you're you're not the right fit? Um, after And then I cried myself to sleep for three days after we launched on, um, kbc uh, he ended up becoming a dear friend and one of my greatest mentors in my entire life. He is till this day, Um, and after he retired from Q v c, um, we actually hired him in a paid position on our advisory board for cosmetics. And so the guy who rejected me was now working for me and, um, and to top it all off is the last thing I'll say is had he said Yes any sooner. Like sometimes we just don't know what we don't know. And had he said yes any sooner, I think we would have failed on PVC. We I didn't know at the time that we weren't operationally sophisticated enough to handle the back end of an account that large and all those things. And so you know, it was a blessing. He said no. And he did. And I think that sometimes rejection rejection is often just grace like serendipitous grace and wrapped in this package that really sucks. It's a pill that's tough to swallow at the time. But again, looking backwards, that's the way that we can connect the dots right, so so much of this doesn't make sense. And thank you for assuring sharing the story behind the story. Um, I truly believe that the most important words in the world are the ones that we say to ourselves and this you know, your ability to navigate rejection, your ability to, um, as you say, get quiet and still seems to be, you know, both here in the show and in the book, like absolutely foundational. Give us a little bit of like, How long did you work out that muscle? Was it three years? Was it a lifetime? Was it just in a professional capacity? Or do you make use of this in your personal life? Because, as you said, not only is this story bigger than you, but it's bigger than in business. It's about humanity. And, uh, you know, whether you're successful in business or you feel fulfilled in life. It's not that much gap between those, you know, those two things you can. If you have the skill set I believe you can. You can create or cultivate fulfillment in all these areas of your life. So was it professional, personal? And how long did you feel like it took before you had the resilience? Or did it just happen at the right time? And you just continue to hone the muscle, Give me a little bit more color there? Yeah, I feel like it is a work in progress. Still, I feel like it's a lifelong journey. Um, you know, there are so many areas in my life where I went from just completely being overrun myself. Doubt and learning how to, um, turn down the volume on my own self doubt and and I literally chased would imagine, you know, I talked about in the book a lot, Um, this idea of, like, this imaginary microphone and this imaginary volume dial, right? And, you know, there were times where, you know, I had got a strong rejection that hurts so bad from someone. And it's hard when somebody rejects us or says something about us, or we keep telling ourselves, um, you know, things that are maybe reflections of past mistakes or past miscalculations. And we start to label ourselves as things um, and repeat them over and over. And you know, I'm still a work in progress at this, But I think you know, one of the tools I talk about in this book is how do you learn and really just turn down the volume on those things and and interrupt him When when you start to tell yourself those things right or repeat words that someone else said to you, or a label someone else put on you or a past mistake you've made, like, how do you turn down the volume on those things and turn up the volume on things that serve you and that remind you of who you are and your strength and your capabilities and your, um, you know, all those things. It's a work in progress for me. So I still deal with it every single day. And, you know, there's a lot of areas professionally and personally that I've learned to believe in myself and trust myself and and no, I'm enough in. And then there's other things, um, related to body image that are still challenges for me to this day. Um, you know, as I've been so blessed to meet amazing people like you, um, like Oprah Winfrey like, there's so many people, right? And I share this, you know, Oprah read the book cover to cover, and she's the first person that read my manuscript and because I wanted her blessing to share a few things in the book, not about Oh, how cool is it that I, you know, Oprah's my mentor, But, oh, I'm still scared to call her. I share some real stuff in this book about some real work I'm still doing in real time because I think that we're all works in progress on this lifelong journey. And, you know, I won't go into, like, all all of this stuff. But, you know, I share in the book for the first time ever about how how I knew my whole life I just had a feeling that it's gonna be Oprah and And when I finally did and she invited me to her house for lunch and we had this three hour lunch, just the two of us. And when When I left the lunch that day and this was three years ago, she says she gave me her cell phone number and she said, You can call me anytime, like call me anytime. And I, uh, freaked out internally, and I was like, Absolutely thank you so much. Here's my cell phone number. And, uh and, uh, to this day, when I have something I want to share with her, I want to, you know, say a prayer for her. I want to inspire her. I want to ask her advice on something or whatever it is. I will text her or email. Uh, and by the way, when she writes back over text and I see the three dots like I still freak out a screenshot it sometimes I will text her, and I will. I will email. I have not called. I have not called her. And I had this big realization, um, fairly recently and I wasn't proud of it. And I realized, Oh, wow. I still don't believe deep down inside that I'm at the same like vibration level is open to just call her up. And that's something I'm working on in real time because I know that's a lie. I know every one of us. Every human being is worthy of calling each other up. You know what I mean? Like, we're all the same. We're all connected. We're all in this life together, like we all have the same hopes and doubts and fears. And and so, you know, for me, it's really it's really a work in progress. There's a lot of areas in my life, figured it out, and and so I'm now working on applying the same, um, the same principles and lessons to different areas of my life and to making better decisions. And I think, too, you know, the better we get at it. We also learn to trust ourselves when not to trust ourselves, right? For, you know, starting a company with my partner. Um, and then we both ended up working 100 hour weeks for 10 years. And it was I share all about that, too, because a lot of people either are or are thinking about starting a dream with a friend or family member or partner. And, you know, that comes with so much right. And and to this day, part of why I decided to sell the company was because I learned to trust myself to not trust myself, that if I stayed running it and owning it all, I would still probably be addicted to work and still probably be working 100 hour weeks and still probably, um, not have had a baby. All the things, um, because we tried for 10 years while working 100 hour weeks to to have a baby, and it was just a crazy journey. And so anyways, um, you know, I made the decision in big part to sell the company because I didn't trust myself. I trusted myself enough to not trust myself that I wouldn't miss out on life. And so it's all a big journey, and then it's all a work in progress. And and to this day I think and I think it will be the rest of our lives for all of us. You know, that's that's one of the things, too, is like I feel so grateful to be able to share all of the things I learned all the lessons I've learned so far, Um, in life and in business, um, that I hope in prayer of service to other people and save them, you know, nights crying themselves asleep and self doubt and hopefully time and money and all those things. But I think that for the rest of my life I'll be a work in progress to still really trying to figure it, figure it all out as I go and overcome all that. Not enough nous that all of us have at deep levels. It's so true that this story is so much bigger than billion dollar brand or overcoming obstacles. As you say. We're all in this together. But there is this. It's hard to overstate the feeling I have about the, but this is in the particular I think it's James Joyce. In the particular lies, the universal and your story is the story of so many of us, um, sort of one last line of questioning. And it's it's how what I have experienced in my own life and having so many amazing folks on the show yourself. Renee Brown, Arlen Hamilton, Richard Branson so many folks who have created the success. It seems like there's a bunch of common threads, but one that I want to pull in right now and get your take is you scratch your own itch, right that this this solution to the problems that you were having with makeup as a as an on air anchor, is it could be seen that that is obtuse and out there. And how many people have this problem of being on camera and mic and makeup cracking? And yet, you know, here you are on the other side of, you know, creating as you mentioned the largest, you know, beauty brand that's going right now. You solved your own problem. How important was that? Did it, you know, and what are they? Give me, like a little 3. 60 on that. What were your your thoughts at the time and your thoughts? Now if you were going to give advice to someone because there are so many people that not only do they just have an instinct of it may be a direction to walk, but they don't know what to do. And they're looking to solve other people's problems. And I have a fear that if you try and solve other people's problems when the going gets tough, you don't have the conviction. But these are my words. And I want to hear yours. Yeah, I think that, um, you know, I think you we always hear the classic entrepreneurial story right of like, Oh, I have a problem and nothing out there solves it. And I created something that did, and now it's a big success. So there's so many examples of that out there. Um, but I also think that that makes so many people put so much pressure on themselves, but they think that they need to have something. So, uh, you know, specific or personal to them for it to work, um, or they need to be solving their own problems for it to work I think that meaning for their dream to become successful or to catch on or to you know, um, I think that every single person, uh, if they really follow, like their own, Um, how do I say this? It's almost like a gravitational force. But you feel right, you're knowing that knowing inside of what brings you joy, what do you have that that just feels right and you feel inflow and you're doing and you feel called to do I feel like that's the magic, not Do I have a specific problem? Um uh, for me that I need to solve. I think that while that can be your gravitational pull and that can be a really, really strong one, because you have a really personal connection to it, I don't think that that has to be there for somebody's dream to be as valid as successful as everything. I think that it's you know, I mean, I'm sure there are people that just feel pulled to paint on a canvas and express themselves and and their work serves the world and helps heal humanity through love and inspires other people and helps brighten their day. And you know, helps them understand themselves better. Um, I think that I think that us really learning again, going back to knowing what is that thing that brings us joy That makes us feel in alignment with our own, you know, calling. And it's okay if you don't know that yet, right? It's okay if you haven't really figured that out yet, But I think it's a journey of paying attention to what feels right in your soul when you're doing it and when you're going after it and when you're creating it. Um, and I think that if you don't have a specific problem, right and to your point, if you're solving other people's problems, is that going to be enough? Um, and what I would say is that you know whether or not it's a specific problem to you, Um, you know, we hear so many thought leaders, um and I know you probably so many of them on your show, um, talking about how do you identify your y and your mission and why you're doing what you're doing. And I think that, you know, uh, the biggest mistake I see people make and going after their dreams or why they quit, even though they keep feeling like they're supposed to keep going. But they quit. Um, I think a lot of people identify a why or their mission for why they're doing what they're doing. I think they identify one that sounds really good, and it makes a lot of sense. And when they share it with other people, they're like, Oh, that's so good. But at the end of the day, it's not deep enough, and it's not meaningful enough to them personally to keep going when times are tough. And so if your problem you're solving isn't personal to you, I think whatever you're doing can equally work. If your wife is deep enough and personal enough to you, Um, and an example of this would be, uh, you know, talking about solving other people's problems. So if I had created my makeup company and said, Oh, I want to solve my own skin problems, I don't think that alone is a deep enough. Why, honestly, for me if it was oh, I want to help so many other women, right? This would be an example of when it sounds so good. I want to help millions of other women solve their skin problems. And that was my why, If I shared that with anyone else would be like, You're amazing. That's so great. But like, is that really deep enough to keep me going every time I got knocked down for years and and so you know, or I want to make a lot of money. I want to pay for my kid's college when they whatever it is, those things all sound so good. And I what I would love to challenge everyone in your audience to do, because I think you have to attach a why to any goal or any dream, right? A lot of people keep like a gold journal, and they write their goals, but they never attach a why to each one. And then and then they give up. I would challenge everyone for their whether it's their creation or why they're creating or their passion or their even their hobby or a personal goal or their business goal is to is to really know your why. But then go wait a minute. Can I peel back the layers on this why and go way deeper and what I mean by that is if if my why would have been let me solve my own problems, my skin let me solve all the problems for so many other women and men out there who have given up on makeup. I don't think it would have been enough for me to keep going. But because, you know, I had this moment chase where I realized, Oh, my gosh, my whole life, all the ads I saw as a little girl showing me what beauty is like. I love them. I aspire to look like those commercials, but they, even as a little girl, always made me feel like I wasn't enough. And my vision of trying to create a beauty company that redefined what beauty looks like. Uh, for every little girl out there who's about to start doubting herself. Uh oh, and every grown person who still does like that Why was so painful to me from a whole life of identifying why it mattered to me to do this? That that's really one of the biggest things that help keep me going also during all the times of of, you know, getting knocked down or we're hearing no again or self doubt would enter my head again. And so I don't think that your company or your business has to be solving your own problem. But I do think that it has to be attached to a why that is so deeply personal to you, Um, that it helps sustain you in those times when it feels like you're the only person believing in yourself again. Thank you so much. The book is incredible. Part memoir, part manifesto. Um, there's so many amazing lessons, so much wisdom, real life stories, humility, grace, vulnerability. And it truly does light the path for not just professional success but fulfillment as human beings. So I want to say thank you for writing. It's a book that needed to be written, and only you could have made that book. Um, and for for those who haven't, you know, consumed your story, the book is amazing, and it made me want to dive into all these other aspects on the Internet, Um, to like, that's where I got, for example, the video of you on Q V C. And, uh, it's just a It's a treat to go back and for the people who are curious and want to buy the book. I understand you've got some special stuff for them at your site. You know, when I did a book and the same thing, So help me understand that. And, you know, our our readers know how important it is to support you in your book launch this week. Um, but where would you steer them to basically get the most that they can out of their, uh, 20 bucks? Yeah. Thank you so much. Chase. Yeah. So? So the books called. Believe it. And you can grab any anywhere. Books are sold. So independent bookstores, Barnes and Noble, um, Amazon target anywhere. Books are sold. And if you grab one, um, and then you go to believe it dot com. So the book is believe it. And then the websites believe it dot com. Um, yeah. In celebration of the launch and my first ever book, we're just giving away tons of free steps. So anybody who picks the book up anywhere when you go to believe it dot com used to enter your order number and you'll get a free um, I did a 95 page action plan that helps you implement all the lessons from the book into your real life. And then I did a course called Becoming Unstoppable. How to overcome the things Holding you back. And you get both of those for free, uh, in celebration of the launch and believe it dot com. And so I'm super excited. Thank you for sharing this moment as well with me And just, um, just sharing stories together. And, yeah, super grateful and excited. Your story is so inspirational. And the vulnerability is so key. We get to feel like we know you. And as you said early on in our show, sort of the stories behind the stories, I think that's what we are craving now more than ever. So thank you for showing up in the world for, uh, in large part, redefining beauty if you've, you know, done so much work against that big vision that you had. And I appreciate you sharing your stories with us today. Um, and we'll get that book. Uh, thanks so much for tuning in wherever you are in the world. Help. You enjoyed this conversation with Jamie current Lima and Jamie signing off until the next time. Um, grateful to have you on the show. Keep doing what you're doing. Mm. Yeah. Mhm.