How do how do you sell it? I mean how's your actual process so they come back in that's all done online, so I then office like a city. I will send them a facebook link to my website is also another thing on my web site that I need to talk about, which will, which will help some people. They will go to that web site it's pretty easy ordering click on image by this image what size do you want you wanted as a canvas you want is an acrylic and then that order comes straight through to me. Email the klein thank you so much for your order. And I courier that, um that order to the client I don't post it so that they have to go and collect it from the post office or the mailman throws it over the it seemed to them either either you know often I I'm not shooting in my hometown, so I in terms of delivery it's going to be delivered to them in a professional in a professional way. So I will send a delivery service delivery company to one delivered did you clients always have you? Have you have you...
always had a history of clients buying reprints from you? I have issues with up selling must be my client base or must be me so you want young question no e I have you know I've shot over six hundred waiting's now and I have had five clients never order reprint the type of clients that I'm talking about here they're not the type of clients that go to a buffet and pile their played up because they can they're not going to take advantage off off you know doing there one wouldn't do things like that you know they want to go to a restaurant where they can order what they would like tio are free drinks yeah you're not that type of drink of entering whiskey when if drinks are free that I said we'll have whiskey not because they normally drink beer you know it's not that type of climbed so it's a different mindset this kind of goes back to my question from day one you know this is a level that you're at and all of it is really great knowledge but again if you're not yet a business and if you're not yet launched and you want to start out right like how do you just find a restaurant but a restaurant you get ready first it has to be ready first to launch this incremental increases takes so long twenty years I know that as soon as I change my mind set it took two or three years and then I was nailing it you know if you look at if you look at it now if you want to start a fine dining restaurant it's going you know you have to get all the tables in the tablecloths cutlery, cockerille great chef all of that in together and then you launch you've never seen a fine dining restaurant start off selling hot dogs and carrie were selling hot dogs now we're going to sell pizza now we're going to sell, you know, stakes and now we're going to knots fine dining they've never progressed through that way, you know, gordon ramsay, jamie oliver they didn't start off selling hot dogs, they went in with a clear vision to open up a legitimate business targeting people with money that sounds like ridiculously blunt end kind of harsh in a way, but it forget about the emotional side of photography so many things and with photographers it's all way get too emotional about it and that's you know, that's I think on asset that I have because I'm not I wasn't born creative and I think I think that because of that I think a lot more practically and and it's a lot it's a lot less emotional for me because I'm not laying my heart out on asleep I'm doing this for money I'm doing this is my this is my career bonus I love it bonus I get to go to amazing places and deal with amazing people but this is what I do for a living. This is what I do to feed my kids and to pay for school fees and to get a nice car and a nice house, you know? So are you saying that if you want to break into the high and wedding photography world, you should basically build a a completely fake, like, not really like a fake shoot portfolio until you have enough images to cells and think of such a dirty word? Sorry, not fake, staged with model's portfolio. Okay, you have enough photos, so basically, what? So basically, what you're saying is that you're in a catch twenty two situation where you've studied now, you go for a job interview and you've got everything they say you need experience. Well, how'm, I gonna get experience if you don't give me a job, okay? Go and get experience by working with other photographers, assisting other photographers, shooting a second shooter with a photographer who is targeting a high end market. Find somebody who's nice who will allow you to use those images in your portfolio so that they're not fake because we're not going to do that other thing so so so that you can get experience and then have a few style to shoots images on my website right now are styled that we shot in paris on a workshop that the image that is used that is used for the creative live promotion that was a collaboration with other people with a florist with it. So I got you here on a styled shoot, but the rest of what I'm doing is still it's still backing up there's still substance to that I've got the experience and I got so going do that, you've got to go and get the experience it's not gonna happen overnight it's really not gonna happen overnight, but it has to be done properly otherwise this incremental it takes it's gonna take forever and you're never going to get there because affluent people if you're if you're if you've got images on your website that appeal to a middle market, that affluent market looks at those images and sees that you appeal two middle market, you will not be attractive to that affluent market and that goes down to little things as well. That's how her finger nails are manicured that's how her hair's her has done you know, if the roots are showing you can't, you know in terms of color and things like that, you know it has to look as if your client is wealthy because that's what you're appealing to them in terms of the fine dining restaurant when they open up that fine dining restaurant, nobody has been there before but you've attract you've created a buzz, you've created a hype and you've created you've made friends in the industry, I'll talk about that a little later on, but when they open those doors when they open those doors than brand new restaurant, they've done their marketing that people come and then you know, that's your opportunity to prove yourself then it starts to snow ball, but because because it's difficult and because it is hard work, does that mean that you don't try? Does that mean that you don't try and open up a fine dining restaurant you carry on with the hot dogs? What do you want? How do you want from your career? It also means it also means on dh when I say, uh, we're not saying if when I say if I can do this, then pretty much anyone can do this. I'm not saying that it is easy and I'm not saying it will happen for everyone because you have to have that drive, that determination, that passion let me tell you how hard these photographer's work that are really making it. I'm not talking about photographers that are perceived to be making it. I'm talking about photographers that are really making it you'll see something this afternoon that will be very impressive to you, and you will then realize how hard that photographer worked and how latest they stood up to make something happen but bang it happened it worked there was an impression you're gonna take this person seriously now you know what that's like pep talk that so how many of your clients are celebrity clients? Thank you call us that's a very, very deep question is a very big difference between an affluent market and a celebrity market celebrity market is very much smoke and mirrors when you shoot for celebrities they don't want to pay it's not about it's about this will be good for you it's the first thing you hear this will be good for you um what happens then is that you get a great portfolio you've got the celebrities in your portfolio which intimidate potential clients because they look at your website over here on issues for celebrities and their friends who are probably also celebrities they're not gonna want to pay either. So you've got this great portfolio off amazing work but no money and you've alienated another market so don't don't get don't let your ego run away with you. You know, I'm not saying you know, I'm not saying say no to celebrities but they must pay the same amount of money as everybody else you know and if they are a paying celebrity because they really are people who have done something with their lives not being famous for the sake of being famous then then those people will be hanging out with other people that are of the same mind set and then they'll also want to pay you think them very kind market dependent country or the area because I realize when you're in europe and the people don't ask you about the prices the people I want to show up you goto especial for terrible but here I go with you which people and they always have happy they went to safe they wantto even they're millionaires okay that's an interesting question but what I'm going to say to you now might sound a little bit ambitious if you're in a in a town or a country I didn't mean to do that if you're in a town or a country that you feel and you know because a lot of the time is a lot of times you'll say our market in my town they will never go for something like this that happened to me once and at a workshop where I was asked to speak at a certain company to go and do a presentation for this company and it was in a town that is perceived to be a little bit on the port side and I went there with this type of presentation talking about come on guys lift your game and I went there and I had this very sort of negative feelings from from the audience that I was speaking to and I had coordinated it with a wedding that I was shooting in their town because I'd been booked to go and shoot a waiting in their town, and I said to the people who wanted me to speak this look what I'm going to be in your town on this date, I can do it the night before the wedding, so I arrived and I do this whole presentation, they, uh you know, really you're going on and on about this and you think you're such a big deal on you say you're charging this and you're doing that, but in this town it'll never happen, but do you really think that I came all the way to your town only to speak at this function? I'm shooting a wedding tomorrow in your town for this amount of money and it's a client in your town that I'm coming to take? How does that work? Because you have already dismissed your own your own town, so in your mind, you're you're you haven't even tried properly to target your own area, but I know what you're saying as well, if your mark, if there's a market in your if you're in your area and that the market isn't working for you and you need to target another market, the fascinating thing about human psychology is that everything important is better, so make yourself imported I live in durban durban is the third biggest city in south africa is not much of a market going on in there. A lot of people have have immigrated a lot of the money is not in durbin anymore. I hardly shoot in durban anymore I shoot in johannesburg and in our target europe in capetown and target europe and international. Now I've heard many times at a johannesburg waiting way it's it's an hour flight we flew the sky in what is that seriously? What is it doesn't mean that I'm better because I live we flew this guy in, you know, make yourself important I know that I know that I saw on television in my hotel room I don't know what car company it is but the tagline right now is important from detroit it's like that is that's cool? The reason they're doing that is because they saying imported is better and come on guys, you know we've got it here but important from detroit or what is that it's a clever marketing technique because you know italian shoes that doesn't really mean that every single pair of shoes that comes out of italy is bit of quartz a bit of quality then then shoes that we can produce here no, but the perception is imported is better, so if you feel that it's not working for you in your area target national target international and when I say target them you don't have to you know go out and go to different cities and shoot stuff it would help but put your adverts in national magazines magazines that go around the whole country you know so that you're going to get work in other in other areas it's a little bit ambitious but I did it in two thousand three I was you know, simon's all of us trolling the internet looking at other pictures and I picked up this uh this national waiting fair that was happening in london and I looked at their now thought you know what what have I got to lose my my work I feel is not as you know I'm as capable as the other photographers that I've seen in london let me go to the bridal fair so I invested in my company I found out how much it cost now are our exchange writers is the rand back home is very weak currency I decided that I'm going to go to this bridal show made big posters put them and took them in the plane with me and I went to the bridal show put up all my stuff and I stood there like right I'm here I'm a photographer and I'm targeting europe the people would come there hi okay that's nice work here have a look and I'd speak to them as if I lived it because when I send them my pricing structure it's already included so it doesn't matter where I come from a long as I can get to your wedding I mean if I shoot a wedding in jamaica or hawaii or mauritius or wherever you know weddings are emotional purchases so the client's going to pay for you to get there if they want you to get there and why can't you go into a bridal fair in new york if you if you want to target new york off you want to target l a or wherever you pick where you want to talk to pick what you want to work you go there you know and like I'm important it's about how you represent yourself yes just a quick question are your high end clients attending winning shows and do you still do winning shows that's the eye yes I do still the wedding service because I showed you an image off the wedding so that I did in march yes so that when I was talking to the money yes yes that was the winning shot off course I'm going to do winning shows great uh I don't know how much no no no no no no it's a great question and I think it's it's a good topic that needs to be spoken about not I'm cool with timing here but um winning show what you have to understand is you guys know about me you know, a lot of photographers know about me what I do when the bride enters the market we're on a level playing field, you know, some people do have a bit more of a reputation in others, but when she enters the market, I'm this I'll get an email from a girl never heard of me, but she's heard of me from her friend like that's how she got my email address, we'll check out my website, but prior to that she is not in the market she's not who hit is not in I need to look for a wedding photographer when she's you know, just recently started going out with a guy you know that's not a soon as she gets engaged bank she's in the market drive let's start looking open magazines were a level playing field this is we're all it's a bun fight for that one client. So so of course I need to go to bridal shows if I rest on my laurels and okay, bring on my client's it doesn't work like that, I have to work very, very hard to get to keep getting the type of clients that that I need, you know? So yes, of course I'm going to bridal shows you've gotto pick the bridal show, you have to make sure that they are targeting an affluent mark the way you do that as you find out how much are the entry price is you know when the client comes to the to the show you know, if it's if it's five dollars you're going to get, you know, maybe the wrong market coming to the bridal show if it's like fifty dollars or one hundred dollars I mean there's some there's some pretty exclusive waiting shows that's where you want to be at the exclusive waiting shows where you know that the right target markets going going to be there because we think we're looking at this and going okay, well, we're doing this target what we're marketing this market we're targeting that market bridal magazines are doing the same thing they doing their research on the who, what market they're targeting, they don't just make a bridal magazine and hope that somebody is going to buy it they specifically researching who are we making this magazine for? Who are we putting on this bridal exhibition for you? No it's all premeditated marketing its business and a lot of research goes into your specific target market thank you. More questions I'm good for christians great, I would love to ask one more fits all right uh so you have raised the bar for us obviously in terms of wedding photography and you're encouraging photographers around the world to step up their game and obi photo and quite a few others, as I'm seeing in the chat rooms, they're wondering so you already have a brand where you're just meeting your basic markets needs what do you do when you want to step up your game? Do you start a new company with a new name for fine dining and lose that hot dog stand the name do kind of go through rebranding process? Yes, without a doubt what's gonna happen, I will check to chat about it briefly a little bit later, but basically you're going to alienate your existing market, and I think we know what you're saying is that you don't have an existing market, which I think is fantastic because you haven't set a precedent, so if you have set a precedent and if you have bean on this road to working very hard for not so much money, you are going to need to rebrand now, when I say rebrand, you gonna have to look at your website and ask yourself, does this appeal to an affluent market? Or did I put it in there just to fill? You know, just to have some substance to my website, you've gotta look at it, maybe even get an objective point of view you bring somebody else in and say, you know, what do you think about these images not your friends and family because they're going to tell you how fantastic you are get somebody who's objective to come and look atyour your images and you know if god look look at what rich people look at what look at what they're normality is in terms of their lifestyle and then ask yourself are my images and does my brand appeal to that market keep the noise away not fancy logo's I mean not when I say fancy logan I mean not fancy design all over the place that's going to you know confuse your client uh I think that music on a website is is a no no personally because that's what you could be alienating people by a certain type of music on dh generally you're going to need copyright free music there so it's not going to resonate with your client as much as if you did use commercial music just because they don't hear that music you know we hear copyright free music all the time but commercial music is more what they're listening to so you might alienate your client for that taglines that kind of thing keep it clean make sure you know just the same way that I look at him go I'm the photographer samantha does the retouching you know I send my my printing out to a specialist printer web designer specialist with designer even go to an advertising agency depending on how seriously you want to take this if you feel that you don't have any design capabilities go to an ad agency we go to a public relations agency and speak to people you running a business this is we got to take this seriously you know so yeah I think that just jacking up your prices it's not that that is that's definitely not going to work if you if you go from say two thousand dollars to three thousand dollars because you think I'm just gonna go up a little bit by little bit by little bit you go up to from two thousand dollars to three thousand dollars that's a fifty percent increase if a certain brand of ketchup went up fifty percent people buy it they wouldn't buy them the more they look for another brand you're alienating you existing market you're thinking the difference between two thousand three thousand is negligible it's not it's fifty percent so if you're going to alienate your existing market already then you might as well go big but when you go big you gotta back it up with your product or service and who you are your brand and last myself properly but I need to make money in the meantime it's like going to college how much money does it take to go to college? You said that money aside you said that time aside and you go to college to get your degree or your diploma so that that's the difference? If you feel that you really have got a good shot at making this happen, then you will you will find the time and money to make it happen like if you really want to go to college, you're going to find the time and money to go to college, right? Just a very quick one in terms of the markup on products and then we're done for this segment just in terms of the markup on products, people asking, how much do you mark your products up? If, if if, if an image cost you a dollar, how much you're gonna sell it for at least at least three to five times how much it cost you that's before you put on your brand value? If you buy a print for a dollar and you're going to sell it for a dollar fifty, you're wasting your time. If you buy a print for a dollar and you gonna sell it for it for five dollars, you know you're starting to make a little bit of money. Now you've gotta add on your brand value and this is when a ll the emotion comes in, how much am I worth that's where it comes in? How much am I worth and that's when you've got to step up your game anger, I'm worth a lot because I'm talented and I'm working really hard at making this work, so if that print cost your dollar, you're selling it for ten dollars. If you feel you're worth more, you selling it for fifteen dollars, but it's the way you sell it, and it's the it's, the conviction with which you stand and say, this is what I'm worth, they go well, fifteen dollars, I give you twelve, fifty go, okay, you know you have that emotional power because you've got the files, you've got the the digital negatives, they want them, they have to be good. They've got to be great pictures, but don't don't underestimate your own self worth.