Meta-Learning (with guest Lisa Betts-LaCroix)
I'm very happy to have lisa who has been awesome friend and supporter and mentor over the course of the last two years she has a college dropout herself uh definitely ah supporter and example of self directed learning and now has two kids of her own who um who are self directed learners as well thank you thank you for joining us thank you I'm so thrilled to be here I find people who are attracted to the academic process are generally really intelligent really engaging and really inspiring so I always look forward to learning as much for my interactions with the academics as I hope they do from from me so basically let's learn together and jam on this idea of metal learning so I want to just start out just to get a little bit more a sense of you I've been watching you from backstage and from on online so I have a little bit of a sense of where you're coming from and thanks for giving me a little bit of a ramp up on the six word interest that you just went through and you shared them wit...
h me and that was very very cool to see where you've gone with that but I wanted to ask each of you if you could just say a word or two about how you're already a medal winner because my premises if you're here you either were born with or you've already developed some metal learning skills and I haven't really talked about what metal learning is but let's just start by saying that from my perspective I like the definition of metal learning as the knowledge and being in control of an aware of your own learning so the skills you need to be a learner um so maybe each of you can just say something about something that you were born with a gift or a skill you've developed that has brought you here today you want to start your day and a skill I developed was learning something through immersion and in school I could technically learn something but I would just cram for the test and then a week later I would forget it and so when I wanted to learn a language I'd always heard that the best way to do that is immersed herself in the culture and the language itself so after doing that I looked for ways to immerse myself in any subject and I've developed one way to do that and that's what I've been doing for the past couple months fantastic that's a great example I would say I would extend that to say that you created an environment you took control of the environment that you were in you recognize that what you needed was an immersed environment and so you created an environment that served that particular inclination and you awesome love it do want to share something I'd say very similar like yeah I mean, I just I figured out that uh I don't learn as well from sitting in a classroom with you know, forty kids okay, um I learned from going home reading about it on the internet um and then doing it on my own okay, so what do you say the metal learning skill is that you were utilizing in that situation just give it a name for us just because independent immersion okay, great. Um autonomy or independence either independents okay, uh let's call it independence for now there's an element of self direction I'm guessing there is another lying piece of confidence that says in you ok, I can grab on to this piece that allows me to be an independent lerner so that might be a gift that you came in with it might be something you developed over time by iterating I don't know, but I definitely think there's confidence piece in there too. So great can you share something? Yeah say asking questions because I used to be kind of afraid to ask questions because, um I don't know something but that's a skill I've learned to develop if I don't know not a suit and continuing to be more confusing confusion it's like getting up and taking that initiative to ask excellent so I heard three men learning skills in that one I hear south advocacy, which means the ability to advocate and get what you need and I know you talked about that yesterday. I think self advocacy is extremely important and some of these are all related to each other, right? I hear communication skills, right? So, um, communication skills is it's hard for me to talk and right at the same time, communication skills are both verbal skills and written skills. I think they're an overarching metal learning skill that we all need to develop as auto died acts eso I've heard you using that and then the other one that I heard it they're wass well, there's the confidence piece also on dh just in general, I would say the ask is a really, really important thing that almost deserves its own spot the ability and the willingness and I think I heard it come up some of other time this weekend, but the ability to say, would you be willing to axe for me? Could you give me one minute of definitely came up in the mentoring session, right? Yes, philly so we have people chime ing in already from online so we can read some of those out to you as well, great, and then we'll go to you okay, great, so apprentice says, learning in small chunks and connecting related concepts wonderful, yes my guess I'm someone who tends to be a generalist and tends to connect many different pieces together. I personally think in my case it may not be be the case for him, but my case that's just one of the guests that I bring and it's really important to be aware of the gifts that you bring. I think one of the gifts I haven't it may be true for, for what was a person apprentice for apprentice is that that much has to be something the ability to connect the dots. So let's, say let's, call that what we call that metal learning skill, because I think it has a name. So anybody think how we can identify that for the purpose of this learning in small synergies connecting related? Yeah, ok, let's call it's energizing the skill of synergize ing. Um, and then the small pieces is chunking, right? Yes, it's. Knowing how to and chunking is a subset of how you organize your time and your actions, which brings in time management think in order to look at chunking, you have toe have some awareness of how you order your time. And like I heard earlier today, that might someone asked a oh, how he structured his time, and for him he knew about himself, he had the personal awareness that he wants structure and maybe that isn't always true but so how you handle time management may depend on your personal inclinations and uh and goals so anybody else way one more online this is from from starling and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this when it's I had to learn to teach myself growing up very disadvantage I didn't have opportunities a lot of other kids had so learning was my escape from a bad situation wow mumbling and beautiful really you know it's really and I think that that's a really great message for all of us to take on that that is whatever we're faced with if we're willing teo inside ourselves to find a place where we can actually switch it out to make it really meaningful for us and I think that is an incredible life skill and metal only skill so he wants to name that one it's like it's like using a disadvantage to an advantage I gotta call it reframing here you go disadvantaged vantage doesn't work yeah three so so whatever situation you have how can you reframe it to give yourself the power that you need to do what it is you want to do and actually I'd say this is a really, really central one and it will happen on all kinds of metal levels in this conversation how do you how do you rephrase rephrase reframes something so it it serves you and how do you have the confidence and the willingness and the intention to reframe whatever you're given whatever you choose irritably just continuously so that it serves you well you share what you've come to the table yeah you know something I mentioned earlier being analytical and in that you know I always ask why I'm not satisfied with you know with that because that's the way it is or you know I want to know the underlying reason for it are you going with inquisitive I'm going with inquiry ok so does that work for you does that fit what you're saying absolutely and curiosity I mean curiosity maybe gift you come in with not necessarily a skill but I think you can also nurture curiosity and increase your curiosity um so yeah that's that's really, really important always been curious I was looking I was being open to ask asking questions asking the right questions excellent. Okay wait can we give it can you throw it you a few more please okay all right way have from laura mcphee we have self advocacy up there but she has self discovery that's fantastic. I'm gonna put self discovery is going to lead us into one of the first places I want to talk about which is a taste self awareness so self discovery and awareness okay lord make dimensions of runaways she's learned from a meta perspective is by visualization so she's learned tio she's learned she's let me just make sure I'm understanding she's saying that she understands that she has a learner is a visual learner so she's been able to harness that for her own learning proxies okay, great, so that's definitely part of self awareness and we're gonna be talking but that's actually pretty good segway into where we're going to go soon, which is how do you start by looking at yourself and knowing something about yourself in that include your learning style? So it sounds like she's gotten become aware of the fact that that's how she learns and she's been able to use it so I think that's also an element of designing around around your own needs in yourself. Okay, so, um, just to give a little bit of context on dh, I know that you talked about this and you're in the last session is you want to give a little bit of sense of where you're coming from so that it informs the conversation and contextualized is it? So I'll just tell you a little bit of my story and I'll tell it from I think I'm forgetting to move forward on these, so I'll tell you a little bit of my story that I think will inform what might what my desires are in my objects joke objectives are, which is, um if you leave this session it's a very short amount of time that I'm trying to condense all kinds of things I'd love to share with you. But if you leave this session with the reminder and the knowledge and the re connection to the fact that you are the driver in your own education, or that you can empower your children to be the drivers in their own education and just that reminder it's so needed in our culture, that does not give us that message very often. So if I can be a reminder of that fact for you, I will be thrilled. I want to give you a sense, I want to work together to build this metal learning tool box, which will just keep on adding to if things come up, if you think of another metal learning skill, let's, throw it in there on this board, and then I want to give you a sense of a process that I see is being a recursive process, a process that we can go through repeatedly and that we can overlay on anything that we want to learn any goal we have anything we want to create in our lives or anything that we want to learn in the process of doing our projects and then on but that's the metal earning ten eagles, so those are the things that I want I want to do and and starting out, I'll tell you that like dale said, I did drop out of college, it was actually more like twenty five years ago s o I see myself as I've been a college dropout for twenty five years, and when I first dropped out, there was no reframing of that conversation. There was no, there was no auto died act or at least I didn't know the word auto died. Actually, we didn't have academics, yes, and actually, when you use that word earlier, there are several people in the chat room asking what that word wass you could explain that that'd be awesome. Oh my gosh, one of my favorite words in this conversation is auto died act, and that means someone who is a self lerner someone who learns but on their own. Now let me clarify being an autodidact does not mean being a soul traveler on a journey by yourself. It means being the person in control of how you gather together your resources and the person who's directing you're you're learning process. So yeah, thank you for clarifying that sometimes we forget when we're really in love with words that other people don't necessarily notice that's what we're here for? Yeah, so there wasn't the word hack the hack a dem iq academics didn't exist, dale was even warm, you know, so so I lived for much of my life with the feeling underlying lee that maybe I was a bit of a failure because I dropped out of college and that's not what I want for you and that's not what I want for you that's not what I want for my kids what I want is the reminder in the knowledge that we get to define the goals that we that we set for ourselves as learners and we get to define whether we've been successful in doing that and we get to design our path along the way I remember when I was four years old I was so excited to go to school I thought I'm going to go to a place every day where they're going to be other passionate curious kids and we're gonna learn together in the context and discover more about the world and I got to kindergarten and my head I had the sweetest teacher but I did not experience a learning environment that was at the level I needed it to be that wass engaged in the larger world we were in a little classroom often on little mats and and I didn't find a general in general a passionate community of inquisitive learners so it was very disappointing but I kept thinking well once I get to university that's going to change when I get to university I'm goingto be immersed in a culture where people are you know having philosophical debates and um you know, engaged in learning that meet their own needs and that they're going to have more control over and it just happens in my case that that's not what I experienced what I experienced was football games beer and mostly people who were there because they were told they had to be so I made the decision to leave and I spent the next and I made the decision to leave because I had the instinct in me that there was something more from my own learning and I didn't know what it wass I basically identified it as I'm dropping out to find myself right, which is cliche but really what that was about was looking for something that was going to work for me and what I want for you is that you know that whether you're in school right now whether you're whether you're you've been in school and it didn't work for you or whether you're choosing to forego school altogether that you remember that you are the one that gets to define it and create it and that you can have a situation where you're learning at your level with engaged uh engage community of learners that's what I want for you I left that and I was ah worked in film intelligent for about ten years as an actor and it was fantastic in the sense that I got to design my own learning and I got to wake up every day and say, what do I need to do to learn how to market myself, to learn how to be a better actor, to learn how to get the opportunities back to get the job about audition technique, and I got to spend every day basically designing a curriculum for myself. Now, how do I be become a successful in working actor? And it was a great experience I loved. I had a fantastic time. Ultimately, I decided to leave that profession because I still felt that I had on opportunity for more self direction and more autonomy and agency over my life. So I had my child, mother's child, and a few years later I started to see the world of learning through his eyes, and I imagined him being this child, going to school and saying, where are all the inquisitive lenders were gonna learn together and have fun? And I did not want for him the same experience I had where I went, where he went was, go to school and discover that that's not what he found. I wanted him to have an experience where he could control and direct his learning at his level in his way appropriate to him with a community of other engaged learners, and that's what I want for you, um so we took him out of school, and when a friend offered me the opportunity to build a community of other people who were doing the same thing with their kids, I jumped at the chance, and we started a community of people who are home schooling their kids for so that they could have their academic and intellectual needs met, and our community expanded quickly. It's and it and it's selected for extremely autonomous, progressive families who are really looking at the possibilities of learning on their own terms and in a completely different ways than they might have found it in an institution I've watched for seven years as that communities thrived and I watch my kids thrive. I've watched the possibilities of taking advantage of all that exists in the world of education change radically explode, you know, and seeing how, how effectively we can learn outside of institutions, and how sometimes it's even preferable, not just possible, but preferable for some people in some situations that sometimes and so that started be wondering why we we then send our kids off to college, and then this is happening at the same time is the point stale brought up earlier, where it starts to become a very big question, the cost benefit analysis of going to university. So like dale, I have nothing against university if I think if you have a decision to go to a college or to any kind of institution and you're willing to use that as a tool to meet your needs then go for it you know then it's a tool that you're using it's not necessarily it's not running you so now I spend most of my time supporting people who are doing private sector ventures who want to change the way education happens and bring better learning to anyone who wants to learn outside of institutions and my passion and my my my focus and the the thing that I really I'm all about is how do I help people like you and like the people who are watching on the internet and my own children take advantage of all that exists for us out there on that technology is provided and continues to provide we can't even imagine what's going to be available to us five years from now in terms of our learning opportunity and it's so exciting but one thing I've noticed but watching my children is and watching myself and watching the people that I come into contact with unless we have metal learning skills then we do not we will not be able to use those opportunities as effectively as we might if we have them so it becomes clear and clear to me as I watched my fourteen year old start to go into the world. This fourteen year old, who has this incredible gift of learning offered to him. We do, which we do travel schooling once every year and a half to go to another country for two months. He has course, sarah courses to choose from, and things like, like creative live are are making more and more learning opportunities available to more and more people. It's all there for us a cornucopia. But unless we have the skills and the knowledge and the confidence in our own ability to drive and run our own education, we're not really going to be able to to use it as fully as we might. So, um so I want to start off with the the process it's, kind of a six step process and where's the picture here we go. And the first piece of it is self awareness. I want a brain strong with you again. I really believe that because you're here, you already bring vast amounts of knowledge, experience and instinct to the conversation. So please help me let's do this together. Okay, so my first premises, what we've already raised and that self awareness that in the first place we need to start is what I know about myself. And please, any time you do, you have a thought to share jump in because you know whether it's people who are online please jump in with your thoughts, experiences ways that you've already used self awareness to move you forward in your in your learning some of the things the pieces that I see is being part of self awareness are, um, desires what are your desires? What do you love? And now I know you've dealt with some of this with tiffany yesterday. What what's your mission on some of the skills that you bring? What do you want? Um, so knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing what you want, knowing what you love, um, another piece is learning style and, oh, my gosh, my writing is really bad. So what do you know about your money cells or anyone online? Or anyone here who has learned something about, like we had an example already? Didn't we the visual learner if you're a visual learner? That's an important piece of information to know when I discovered about myself that I was a verbal processor that changed my perspective on how I do things and what I and and how I go about learning learning pieces. How I go about learning things it made me realize that if I want to learn something I have to talk it out loud with someone like let's have a conversation about this topic so that I can hear my own thoughts and I could get them reflected back to me it was very empowering for me to realize that I'm I'm a verbal processor it was also pretty useful for my husband to realize that I was a verbal processor and sometimes he just had to say ok you're figuring this out right? So just anyone has something to share about themselves that they know that they're aware of yeah, yeah I realized that reading a book alone wasn't enough in that couple months down the road I would just forget the things that I had read, so I started taking notes in the book and then also recording myself reading my notes and then listening to my notes when I'm in the car just walking around wow, that is a fantastic skill that's one the idea of recording your notes as you're reading I have never thought of and I think I'm gonna have to try that that's really, really brilliant the essence that you hit on that I think is really really critical is the idea of engaging with the content and engaging with the content in any way that's meaningful to you and maybe you have some auditory tendencies you know, maybe you need to hear it out loud so you can record it and then listen back maybe that's so if you know and you can explore what kind of learner you are, you can create your learning situations that really served that. Did you have something on that? Um I was going to say something, but it's probably a learning style it's a learning style that's fine, but I was just going to say, like, just interacting like hands on interaction, not just a verbal but like, you know, kind of more hands on like really helps me learn well and that's a great example. Is there a time that you've put that awareness to use and how you know, I bet there is because some of the things that you've already shared yeah, like I mean, just like my business and stuff and my album and stuff it is like, um I just learned how to do it from just like talking to people and just like literally doing it's screwing up, which is the best part of doing stuff his failure on dh, then just learning from that building building building yeah that's a great great example and it is one of the opportunities sometimes it's easier to create hands on learning outside of classrooms than it is inside of classrooms and yes, yeah, and someone else online on all marie rose says very similar tent our studio audience here I learned best by activating all senses reading, writing notes, watching discussing just reading something usually is not enough this another note also explaining to someone what I'm learning really helps okay that's fantastic! I think the idea of teaching and something I'll bring up later a cz part of the process, yes, but if you can teach someone or share something that you know where that you've learned with someone that's an excellent way teo teo, learn and again not always an opportunity in classrooms so and susie's just one moment maybe susie sunshine says, I need analogies and I need them to be visual excellent, yes, so we can't ask her questions, right? But you can deliver a delay, but I would love to know an example of how she's actually made that how she's implemented that in her in her when she's realized it how she's actually activated it, how she's converted it into action excellent ok, another piece of self awareness that I wantto wantto introduces the idea of cpd and that's his own approximate development and it's one of the biggest challenges with being in a classroom with many, many other people is that people don't always get to work in their zone a proximal development and especially if you're an outlier in any direction, you may not be working in zone a proximal development is the idea that in order to best learn, you need to be learning content at a level where it's not so easy for you, that your disengaged and it's not so hard for you that it's disengaged that it's right in that sweet spot challenging you, end it so that you're engaged with it inspired by it and and just kind of like grappling with it. So you want to be grappling with your learning? You want to be working in the cpd in the zone, approximate development that's, right for you and that's very often very, very hard to do when you're in a group of twenty or twenty five people and there's one very well meaning teacher trying to find that zone approximate development for everyone. So when you take on the idea of being an autodidact, you get to go into that, but you still need to be able to think you still need to be thinking about is this in my zone a proximal development and finding the places that are, uh, anyone haven't expected experience of that? Actually, I know I'm in a it's an advance public relations course, but done all these other things I've had built up my fellow christians experience, and we spent we sat there for an hour and a half trying talking about twitter and howto comprise a business tweet and it's not hard for me to do I don't know how to do that, so I was like tuning everything out and then she would say things that could have been valuable but just the fact that everything else was just like I already knew and just didn't need toe listen, tio, just I just like everything went over my head, yes, so one of the that's a fantastic example in one of the thing, the opportunities that we have if we're aware of the ideas on a proximal development is that we can say, you know what? This is not in my zone approximate development, so I'm going to step back and find something that is instead of making ourselves wrong, I'm not paying attention or this teacher is no good or no, this just isn't in my zone approximate development and I need to either engage with it in a way that it can become so asking questions like directing the teacher who might then be thrilled or saying this is not the right thing, I'm going to go find something else so part of that sea empowerment piece of just not making ourselves wrong and I think that's what a lot of people do when they're outside of their zone approximate development they think it's them or they think it's the teacher but really it's just not the right so yeah I was going to say and like I'd love to hear your opinion on opinion on this but I like when people get labeled learning disability you know what I mean and that that's not what it isthe it's like that kind of thing you know so many times people are labeled in a way that is not useful to them I am not against labels per se because I think sometimes they can help us understand who we are and give us more self awareness so that then we can do the next stage which is designed things that are appropriate for us but I think that the like everything else we want to be using the labels to our advantage to the labels air informing us so that it can empower us not not the opposite and some of that has to do with the reframing you know and for example dyslexia is something that people I know a lot of I know a lot of people who are dyslexic my daughter is dyslexic and I know people who think well that if I label that it's going to disempower them no if you say and then you reframe there's a really great book called the gift of dyslexia or the dyslexic could manage that takes the idea of dyslexia and then looks at all the different ways that that type of brain learns in a way, that's not making it bad, but but it's actually empowering, because you can see how you work, what works for you. So I don't know that's, that could be a whole long hour long conversation in and of itself, and I'd love to have it. Maybe we could talk more, but yeah, a good question coming in from greg, d and other people are seconding is, how can people find out what type of learning style is best for them? That's, you know, my guess is that they're probably courses than books that you could read on it. I would say some of it is just the personal inquiry, some of it is just stepping down the awareness, and some of this is this is the metal piece that pieces you're the expert in your own learning, you know, the metal pieces you get to decide, you get to sit with yourself and say, who's, that that works for me, why does it work for me? You don't have to always have an expert to tell you what you are. If you if you know, that you're in the driver's seat of your own learning, and you're willing to ask those questions of yourself, yeah, I'm actually right on top of this, I I came across a book recently, and I can't remember the name of it or who it was by anymore, but but it was talking about learning styles and and one of the best descriptions that they had and there was that they had surveyed people who went to a concert and they learned these people's learning styles by it, you know, by what they came back and say or what they came back and said so the people that were the visual learners came back and described it by, you know, the visual spectacle, the lights and and all of that on the auditory people the verbal learners came back and talked about the sound of the concert and then the you know, and then the people who, you know had the hands on kind of people talked about the feet, you know, the feel and just the overall atmosphere of it. Excellent yet and I remember now ah ah, question and exploration of you have to build a bike, you know which way do you do it? Are you someone who's gonna pull out the manual? You know, and read through all that step by step directions are you someone is going to say, man, you built a bike before, can you help me build my bike and show me how to do it? Are you somebody is going to go online and look at youtube videos and watch how it's done or you know so I think just looking back it's something you've learned and how how it was effective for you is going to give you a lot of insight into your own learning and a lot of self awareness that conserve you okay, so there's we could spend the whole time on this but just to give you the sort of over okay acknowledge ok website with the wrong way ok, so the next piece is the idea that once you know about yourself and you know about all these pieces about how you learned about what your community you and what you love and what your mission is, then you can start to design the picture. This is kind of like the the self knowledge pieces you're standing on the shore going what's around me what's out there in the ocean what's behind me where have I come from and then the next piece is want to gather all those pieces of information together? Then you say, where do I want to head to? Ok? And you look out on the horizon and you say ok, I think what I want to head to is that island over there or I suspect there's there's a piece of land that direction and I want to head that way so um so this is the part this is what do you want to do and what do you want to create with your? And I have a feeling that some of you already have overarching ideas and maybe someone can share something about what, what their self awareness with the work they've already done has informed them about where they're going. So this piece is the design piece so it's really about vision and where you're headed to what you're designing in terms of broad brush strokes for yourself, anyone have something they can share? Yeah, is it like you want, like really like a thing we've done and how that's led us to you wantto more about where you're going now, where you're standing on the shore, looking out at all the possibilities is for yourself and where you're wanting to have yourself on why we got there sure that's that to these air all sort of connected and enter interwoven, but just something about, like the idea of where you're going ahead to what you're over action vision is where you're wanting to design your push yourself off in which direction could be a project you have could be a goal you have could be a entrepreneurial company could be a skill set that you want to develop I know one thing that I want to do is, you know, for the people that work for me we're talking about this a little bit yesterday, you know? I feel like we're forming for the summer basically and then they need toe be trained on a lot of information I mean become proficient at it in, you know, in the three month period basically and so I want to be able teo, you know, take this this broad amount of knowledge and be able to refine it tio you know, to get it to them and and encompass all this stuff, you know, how they're able to learn it and process it and all that and so it's kind of this this grand idea of how do I you know, get all of that into this a very small window on dh you know, and to a broad audience so you want to take a bunch of information and synthesize it and share it yes, okay, and with a very particular purpose which has to do with your business, right? So you want to transfer transmit knowledge to support the people who work for you in in so that they're really capable of utilizing all the things that you've learned, right? Yes, that yes, yeah, and but keep it in mind that you know what we're just talking about, everybody learns a different way and you know, I can't just force it down their throat they need to be ableto you know tell understand it teo and be able to apply it on the room yeah ok good so the vision is to create is to synergize information or to synthesize information so you can share it with the people who work for you so they're empowered to be better in their work and to serve your company absolutely okay great. So that's a vision right? You see how that's like ok great anybody else have a sort of vision about what they want to create a where they want to go anyone from the internet want to share something along these lines so this is the sort of general vision of where you're headed I'd say I don't know I think this is what you mean but um I want to like use my company um like I want to build it up and then use it as leverage um like for myself to make myself more credible okay so you want tio develop your company in such a way that gives you credibility so that then you can contribute whatever it is that you're wanting to contribute to the world okay, great yeah anybody else? Sure yeah I work for a start up company right now and I'd like to help it reach the phase where it's truly successful and then use what I've learned to help other people in other companies ok, excellent. Ok, those are all great examples of kind of larger visions okay, once you have your larger vision yeah, someone yeah there's there's a bit of a delay so it takes a little bit for people in line for their comments to start coming in but kelly j says her vision is starting an online retail business selling hand created woven fabric and hanley jewelry and write a blogged about it okay, good. So she has a vision for the company that she wants to create and a way that she wants to try to transmit information about that about that company ok, those are great visions ok? So where it is having a vision take you what's the next thing you have to do what you did for your house yeah, that on the shore got aware of yourself your surroundings your world who you are where you want to go you you saw a place off in the distance that you want to head yourself in the direction of and now you need a way to get there, right? So yes, I'm calling about the metal earning action plan or your map so what's involved in a map and again, if you have experiences to share, we all learned by sharing what we know so both under meta perspective we learned by sharing the piece of it with you know something teach it so we can work together in this so what's the map what's involved in a mass once you've identified something that you want to create, you may need to learn a specific skill so maybe there's one skill maybe for each of your visions you can identify one just one and it's probably going to many but just for the purposes of this exercise one specific tangible goal or learning process or language or you know uh technique that you might need that will serve your vision mearns coding okay, great. Ok, so we're gonna you're enough to learn a skill, identify the skill in your case it's coding and interesting that comes up fairly often in these conversations I'm finding um ok do you know anything about the coding that you want to learn? Yeah, just the basics right now I'm just going to receive on taking some interests yes, possible. Okay, great. So let's use yours as an example than you want to learn coding. So the next one of the other pieces of the map I would say our is about sourcing so I see sourcing as being looking at all the possibilities for what you want to learn and deciding which pieces. So so maybe that's gathering what books that there are that could inform you identifying experts which also leads into your community support right which has been talked about a lot this weekend and I think it's been talked about about a lot because it's really chris it's really crucial you know, the community's support that we bring, whether it's piers experts, mentors you know piers are buddies, somebody is there were bodies I think that's great so are sourcing is looking at who were the community pieces that you want to build again to help you learn the skill of coding. You know, what are the books that you want to read? What are the online resources that might might be most useful to really do a broad search for what's going to give you the information you need to code um and then the one that's really critical to this and I believe this is a really important over arjun metal learning skill. Do I have it up there already? Filter the idea we're spaced with so many opportunities in so many ways, and to be able to do important selection is something that, um, we and our kids, we're going to need more and more and more we had everything there's so many sources of information available to us the the lady was going to make up in back was talking about how you could go on you could go on, read it and just be six hours into, like, down, you know, internet holes and because there's so much available to us, so how do we make choices about where we spend our energy so that it's in that smaller twenty eighty rule where where we're spending a small amount of time to get the most value so I think filtering is over an overarching really important metal learning skills so going back to this process, how do you take all these source pieces and then decide and filter out all the options and the options? Hopefully hopefully you're filled filtering uh based on relevance to you too you're learning style to your goal on dh validity you know, it may be that ok, this I'm going to give this mentors um perspective more more about the validity or maybe the opposite I think this peer of mine has been there and so his input is is really valid. So you're taking all the possibilities for information and really filtering it down and identifying where, where the step, where the ones you want to you want to focus on our and then from there you have to build you know, you have to look at your time management and how you're managing your time and what specific smart goals you want to make out of that. So if you don't know the does, everyone knows does anyone know sparkles okay, so smart goals is the idea that you identify one goal and we look back to your coding example one goal that fits the category of smart so that it's very specific it's a specific alone related to coating that is measurable that you can know at the end of whatever period of time back way down here that you've actually achieved it or not that it actually is achievable but it's within your zone approximately development that it's that it's realistic and that it's time based so can you maybe come up right now on the spot pressures on with one smart goal related tio your overarching goal of learning to code so that then you can do your larger vision yeah I could seek out someone and actually already have someone a friend who I guess would fall under the body slash peer group who could we could work together in developing a program that say within twelve months we can put out and get feedback on okay good say it one more time for me okay so yeah I will work with the front and developing something within twelve months that we can put out and get feedback on okay so I just wantto try to amp it up a little bit in the sense of how well you know that what's the measurable component ok you've got the time part we know it's twelve months but what's the specific and measurable part because at the end of twelve months I want you to be able to go that was successful or that was not successful I guess I could put it out on get hub and get reviews by people in the community ok, and what would it be would be whatever type of program that we would write? I'm not sure what it would be yet, okay, I only have an idea maybe the maybe the goal could be related to how people use the program or the types of reviews that that you get okay, so so your goal might be something like work with your you're appear nobody to develop a coding project in the language that you're studying that it goes up on get help get hub is that, he said, and has, uh, certain number I don't know what would be a relevant number, but certain number of responses or interaction, so and you may need to refine that a little bit because we're kind of doing this on the fly, but the idea is that you're really clear on what it is, so that twelve months down the road, someone can check back with you or you can check back and see what you did it well, did it. Now I'm gonna add onto that this piece, this metal earning skill of chunking, and I'm going to say, what if you didn't go straight for that one that's a great overarching one to go to, but what if you started with something simpler? So what have you started with something? It wasn't so far out that was what I'm calling the one but you don't eat an elephant all at one time you just want to take one bite if you want to eat an elephant so what could be that one by one first step that maybe could be checked you could maybe check in your time time factor could be maybe two weeks from now yeah why he has to do with connecting with your yeah I have a local support group and maybe I could create a smaller project and I could present it to them in two weeks and say hey what what do you think of this so far okay do you have the ability to create a project like that right now you're not realistic not in two weeks it would take probably two months okay, so what's one goal you could do say in two weeks that would had you in the direction of this yeah I was just going to say what what about you know we're talking about it and what it is a program what about you know, spending two weeks to define what the program is going to bay yeah I guess within two weeks I could brainstorm ideas and present what it is before I actually start driving towards it ok I think that that's a much more that's a really great so I feel kind of energy on that idea that again in two weeks you could actually do that so and I also would want to go back and ask do you are you clear about what the coding project is that what what coding is you need to learn are you clear about the language and I don't know anything about coding, so I'm just kind of I could be way off when I'm throwing out but is there a question you need to be asking first? That is what language do we need to be learning what's the most useful one two and what do we need to learn about it or or no are you clear on that already? Yeah, I'm a now I'm not exactly clear I have a couple different languages that have been recommended, but as far as a concrete answer I haven't received it yet okay, so what if as a possibility one of the possibilities is you reached out to your network or to your mentors or to your peers to say to help them to get input from them on designing ah goal that will be meaningful though you and in the process of coding yeah, well, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, so then I'd suggest just see if you can put it into this smart goal idea so that it is time based and then see if you can get someone maybe one of your fellow academics here told you accountable to doing that in two weeks yeah because I think my first idea of having it within a year I could spend a year going in the wrong directions but two weeks right away you get feedback exactly. So alex peak is gonna be here later I could love to quote him he says ship ship often and ship early and I think that just speaks he's talking about entrepreneurial things and coding but to me I like to apply that to everything whatever you're doing put it out there and then iterated change it as you go yeah did you have something you want but I just kelly j I was sharing his or her smart goal taken online six week class to build an online shop that results in a finished online store very clear and so was there with their time time factor in that the six week class please okay, good so I would just put out that that that perhaps kelly could find someone to be accountable to on that yes and so that she has she or he has someone to the beauty of creative lives starling says I might be able to help you with that actually come with a cannibal on maybe there's someone out there if starling can't help is going to help her with implementing it maybe there's someone else that also there he would be willing to be her accountability partner on that area go you know, great okay um so that's and again each of these is you know we could go into so now we're into the execution piece right? And we started these air overlapped processes so we started on the execute piece right in terms of getting your first step identifying who's going to help you and really looking at what how you're gonna how you're going to implement it so in your example you are identified um what your first steps are going to be so we kind of got here early right? Your first step is going to be to go out to your community to get input on your on your project and whether it's the right thing to identify the goal and then the execution piece is really one that I noticed comes up so often is the idea of time management I believe that we as a culture have a really big issue and challenge around how we manage our time and how we manage ourselves. So again this is another one of the big metal metal learning um pieces that we can keep coming back to is how do we manage our time and what kind of what kind of, um processes they're going to serve us and again that's really gonna be informed by who you are and how you work like dale I'm someone who loves scheduling and I love making lists and I love like having different calendars and um but maybe that's not the way you are so maybe you're more about managing in different ways does anyone have anything that they can share that has worked for them in terms of time management, self management in time management this and if someone on the internet has some ideas to I really believe this a place where we need to gather together and brainstorm because it's just really such a big critical issue for us yes uh I don't know it's silly but like there's some really cool lapse in the app store that are freed yet one that you like in particular not that I can think ok, I like on dhaka's yeah um quite a bit I've tried different like education ones like I studies just I studies protest the one reason school I love that that's good for if you're actually doing I mean I adapted for not being in school but it's very designed for school or people studying anybody else have wants to share yeah, I've heard a lot of people use evernote yeah, yeah so I'm a big fan of the calendar like for me it is not in my calendar, it doesn't happen and in terms of also time management a lot of time left I put a timer on my phone right there all these great as I just said, you know, forty five minutes push go now work solely on something for that time frame of the alarm goes off that's my time I could get up take a break and move on to the next thing yes, excellent! I think those are great tools I personally I'm working right now with my son to try to help him because when you're fourteen it's something that's somewhat new to you to figure out how to do it and trying to help him understand the different strain calendar items that I use google google calendar form and if it's got a time or date based put it in there but then also have your daily practice list so that there's a list on the wall of things that you want to do every day they don't necessarily have time maybe practicing piano isn't something that goes on your calendar but it is something you want to do every day and check in on so if you could build a practice of three things that you want to do every day on just stick it on your wall somewhere I think that that's a great a great practice to get into and distinct from the calendar um yes someone else won and yes we have more ideas coming in my heart of some of these and I haven't heard about their ideas so it's cool that's the beauty of the lake says I love spring pad for organization it's like a cross between print pinterest and ever note and then nastya friendly I find time tracking and outlining and work flowy work flowing, we very helpful. And then I personally a long time we took the getting things done by david allen, but productivity and that's another great one, I think anything to do with getting things done is a really good sort of framework for then how you apply it to yourself. So I definitely always recommend reading about getting things done as a way of thinking about how you're organizing time and and and stuff um, couple of the ones that come to my mind, if you like, if your mind mapping type person you like to sort of see the actors and how it all fits together, personal brain is a really good tool. Um, if you're working with other people, assan is not bad for being able tio identify who was going to do which part of which project? Um yeah, um just on like the calendars thing for, like apple products and get consent location reminders so that when you get to a location it's like, don't forget to do this or whatever. Yes, like I've used that a lot for, like reminding me not to forget time management stuff, yeah, I recently started a practice where I go that in the morning and go walking sometimes it's on my truck, my treadmill workstation but sometimes outside and I have my phone and I use recall and recall allows me to call in an action item as I'm thinking about it and then it goes into my calendar if on the day so I tend to be a kind of kinesthetic person and I think sometimes I get my best ideas or I do my collection of things when I'm walking, so I'll walk and then if I get an ideal call recall and then recall well, let me say, you know, says ad ad or do or recall ad and then add please too friday call dale regarding creative life and then it will add into my calendar on friday and then I can pause it and still be on the phone and keep walking until I get another idea and then I'll call that in, so I'm my my vision for myself is that I'm getting exercise, I'm utilizing my kinesthetic orientation and I'm also kind of gathering and collecting all the things that I need to do so ok, so execute lots of possibilities on execution largely depends on who you are and one exercise you can do for yourself maybe after the fact or with a friend or with each other is to identify what type of person you are, what works best for you in terms of execution and what's and what's, one piece you need to add in in terms of what's one missing piece, you need to explore and find to support you in your execution. Ok, ok, so skills so ostensibly we've gone through all these processes and we've developed skills, right? And not the final and skill not like this is the final skill that you're going toe come away with the now you're cooked and complete and done. No, just the skill for where you're at now. So hopefully you buy. You've seen the vision of where you're going. You have identified a goal, you've identified a skill and you can go now. I can code in. You have to help me with the ceo. Now I have this particular skill. Okay, so what do you want to do with your skills? I personally think that you can look in terms of first signaling, right? So your skills are now going toe. Add into your proud to your larger project like someone you said once you have a skill than you're going tio, then share it. There's another piece. How can you share your skills so that you're contributing to other people, so this is a double win? Double win win, because by sharing it, you're actually going to salt, solidify it, and by sharing that you're going to contribute and we all know that contributing to other people's growth and other people's processes is good for them and good for you, you know, um, uh, signaling singling is a whole big conversation in this auto dydek world and it's when I love to have I think how we signal what we know is really important and changing all the time in the way the world, but you want to start thinking about, well, how how did the skills that I have happy my signal them? How can I use them? How can I incorporate them into my elevator pitch? Um, dale has a lot of ideas in his book about how you might want to do that. One of the things that I've really been excited about is the idea of a personal web site if you don't already have one, so you can show what it is that you know, um for the purpose of both of sharing it and solidifying it and also utilizing it, um, skills, you also want to go back and be able to evaluate your skills, so who gets to evaluate your skills if you're in a school? It's your teacher, if you're not a dyed act it's you and the people you invite to participate in that process with you so you may want to say what do I expect for myself in this skill that I've developed around coding and did I meet it and what's the next step you may want to say hey you're my mentor all right would you will be willing to give me give me a bit of time on this project and let me know what I what I don't know that I don't know you know but you're in control of evaluating your your skill level or inviting other people to help you with it and that's not an experience that you have in school so I'm really, really passionate about the idea of reclaiming the syllabus one of the things I know from being from being a facilitator of my kids as independent learners is that when I spend the time deciding what they need to learn I actually learned and I've actually deprived them of the ability tio two the knowledge that comes from building a syllabus if I decide on a topic that they were working on and I'm going out and researching and putting the book list together and putting the website together and putting the exercises together I have actually gotten engagement in the process of learning where is if my goal for them more and more is that they take on that process reclaim the syllabus don't throw the syllabus out but get the learning that the professor's air getting by engaging with the conversation by taking it on for yourself and then same thing with the evaluation decided what it is that you want and who you want to be helping you to evaluate so deciding yourself evaluation system and decide on your external system for evaluation and create that ok? So then once you have those skills, then part of the evaluation process is getting, which is assessing so you've got your people, you've got your own tools and you're assessing how you've done and what's next you're you're assessing what new skills you've developed, what the next steps are, um, how effective you been and what you need to integrate to go to the next level. So this is how the metal learning process fits all together and it's my premise that you can overlay this process on anything that you want to do, whether it's learning to code whether it's building a business, whether it's learning a language, whether it's know that no matter what it is that you want to do, you can start with the idea of self knowledge. Um, what you know about yourself where you want to go and what you're wanting to create, to design the direction to identify the path that you're heading heading in so that then you can create a map that gives you the step by step um uh, uh activities or processes you need to undertake to go in the direction that you want so that you can execute it effectively so you can build your skills and then reassess it all, re evaluated all inter eight and go back to the beginning so that then you can design the next step. And I believe that you can lay this on anything that you want to dio. So, uh, there's a work shape for the people who are you have either purchased the course, I think you'll they'll get it. And also I think that they were going to be giving them to you also, but it's, just a place for you to and I'll come back and I'll ask you to think about something that you're taking away in one of these areas that you're that you need that you're going toe challenge yourself to focus on, um and then there's more planning same questions and that's also going to be in the workbook for people who choose it so what's next why is this so important? Um, I believe that it's our gift and our responsibility as people who are inclined to be self directed learners too step in and be models. For that process, because there are so many people in the world that want to know that it's possible, that they can do it. We live in this culture that is so deeply ingrained in the idea that you need someone else to bless what you do. I need someone else to give you letters behind your name, to say that your valid and if you're here, you're already inclined, and if you're with us online, you're already inclined to be this person to be an example of someone who knows, remembers and acts on the fact that you have agency over your own learning. And guess what? That's a metaphor for something bigger if you can know, remember and act on the fact that you have agency over your own learning you are also the agent of your own life, and so the more we can build communities of support around us through creative live through academics, through the college movement and through all the projects that we're doing to say it's possible, I'll support you. You support me in us building, building the tools and the skills for taking the reins in our lives and and making it happen on our own tour terms, the more you're serving the larger world and more you're giving the message to people that you can do it, too. So I say you know auto died actors autodidact ism is critical important for us as human beings and reclaiming what's possible in the world. So if there's any way I can support you in that I would love to do so I want to just end or sort of start to wrap up by asking if everyone could share something and people online also if there's something that you could share and identify and just give give language to give give power to buy speaking it in terms of a metal learning a metal learning skill from the toolbox on which there are many more things we could add onto this if we had more time but what's one metal learning skill that you have an opportunity for growth related to and some way that you you want to take it for what do you want to start after yeah creating a community around you like you said auto died acts it's not just doing something yourself it's incorporating and inviting other people to take part in it with you because building a sense of community is crucial to helping you and what you need to know and what would that look like for you that would uh reaching out to people who I know are getting what they dio and asking them for specific specific advice not only end where it can begin but also asking for their help and grading or critiquing what I'm going to do based on based upon their advice okay? And how will you know you'll be successful in that based on what they say or the reaction that I get from the community ok did you know what a community would look like for you where you would feel like ok, I am I have surrounded myself by you know what that would feel like or what it would look like yeah, I kind of have a sense of it right now, but I know it'll only expand as I want to speak more more with the community that I already have yes communication skill being willing to to go out and speak it, put it out there and then see what comes back to you and just keep on iterating yeah really powerful piece thank you. Yeah um I've done a bit of time management but I think I could really get more into it and let's do it well, you know we'll find it the piece that I would share on time management is about systems um and finding systems that work for you and getting really clear on what the system is um if you need to name it, I think there's great power in naming things um so if there's a system that you think was going to serve you or be a self watering system something that's easy and then identify it as such and I think that gives it a lot of power you couldn't can identify the system and name it and then get accountability on it or support or buddy I love the idea I heard earlier about cost someone called calling at six a m yeah that's fantastic great thanks did it yeah, I would say I'd say time management's well there's so many things that I have to learn when I'm in school and there's all but there's like so much more that I want to learn them by the time I've done all of those things I'm just like tired of um basically just get really tired so trying to figure out like time management and motivation to keep pursuing different avenues when I able to yeah, you're bringing up a really important point and that is that has change makers as a cz innovators in the world. We tend to be people who have lots of ideas and want to start lots of projects and have lots of visions about what they can change and what they can do and lots of interests and lots of curiosity and so the achilles heel to that is we do need to find ways to manage ourselves so that we can keep taking step by step by step in the direction that we want to go and you know every every gift and every strength is often accompanied by a challenge related to it and I do think that when war innovators that's one of the pieces that we really we really need tio bring the medal learning skill of organization and time management and so yeah, I say go for that one yeah uh the one thing that stands out up there to me is the filter and I I actually wrote this down yesterday I think when when dale is first starting you know, starting the course and I put you filter information and you know, we we've got have touched on a variety of time to talk about the you know, the rabbit hole on reddit you know you could be on there for six hours there I'm you know and so being able to filter the information just seems was really critical to may and let me ask you what do you know about that for yourself so far just a this point in time stop me here you know, I it depends on the depends on the subject yes there's some things where you know I just keep going and you know and end off on some tangent and have toe you know, real myself back in but one of the things that you know that you touched on earlier you know, the smart ackerman acronym and you know, smart goals and, you know specific measurable all of that I think is a really, really good thing to use and I kind of noticed you've been saying that well how do you define that? You know, when we're talking here and I think that's actually a very valuable keeping your help with it you have to help with the filtering yes, the other pieces that I would remind you that branch out from filtering are is it relevant to you but going back to the awareness is it relevant to the type of person you are the type of learner you are and the goal that you have and on dh then also the piece about is it efficient which is going to give you the most bang for your buck in terms of um making the difference that you want so sometimes you have to make choices like all of these things would be great, but where is the biggest return on my time? And I think if you start to filter based on those two things to start with that you're already going to be quite far ahead of the game so I think you're right filtering is it's a huge one and I just think it's going to continue to be that way as there's more and more access teo, you know, constant non ending streams of information oh yeah I love to share some from online with liza finger guns nano says I want to improve on active listening it's hard to concentrate when there's too much going on around me sometimes one way I have learned to really focus study or read is just having the right classical music, meditation, music or other ambient music in the background and then here she says, I'm doing that now even that's fantastic that's more meta so I think that's something we can actually adhere is part of the communication skills listening how do we be really effective listener and knowing what knowing how that works for us may mean music or it may mean like ashton was saying earlier sometimes being a listener is it means having it be verbal sometimes it means interacting with content in a different kind of way so how do you engage listening? How do you and I mean listening from the larger piece and this next one there's actually really good when I think all of us probably could learn from alfonzo says he wants toe approve a plan stubbornness he wants to wear a improve upon stubbornness being stubborn so I guess he's talked about being more open. Oh gosh, I wish he was here and I could ask him more about that, right? So I'm gonna have to extrapolate and what I'd say it is idea that that's being presented there is a couple things actually one is possibly he's saying he needs to be less stubborn and more open to other possibilities, which is a fantastic thing. But if he's stubborn than the other side of the coin is embrace what's useful to you that I bet there's some hidden gift in your stubbornness. And if you can take that piece of stubbornness and use it and and celebrated and say this stubbornness and reframe it so that what you're calling stubbornness is actually, oh, really, maybe one of your biggest gifts let's, get to a few questions, like a lot of questions coming let's give you a few questions we wrap up for this break. First, nesta friendly says you talked about this earlier in terms of developing skills, how many skills being developed at the same time? It is too much, you know, I think that goes back to the person again. You know, some people are really specialist oriented, and they want to drill down and going deep on one particular topics of you're the type of person who knows that that's the way you are, and you just want to spend twenty four hours coding. You know, a day or whatever fifteen out whatever it is for you and that's, the way you're gonna learn, then by all means, do it. I personally am a generalist and it's taken me many years it's taken me four decades to really embrace that in myself, and to say, you know what? The way I learned things is by working on many different things at the same time and again, instead of making myself wrong for that saying that's, my process and that's what works for me and maybe it'll take me till I'm eighty five to be a master in all of those things, but that's, the way that learning works for me, so, you know, sorry to keep throwing it back at yeah, but really what it comes down to is looking at yourself and saying, how do I design this? In a way that's, mine and that's, the beauty and the opportunity? Well, what's so cool, what you're talking about, it's those like that lifelong journey of self aware witness and self acceptance, which kind of flows into this question from elizabeth, who is saying, do you have any suggestions? Strategies for overcoming perfectionism I have done is better than perfect as a desktop wallpaper, but I'm very good at ignoring it, and I think a lot of people struggle with you know, I I would go back to the community into the support, find people who can champion you for who you are and what you do find people who will keep reflecting back to you, what you've given and what's good about what you've accomplished and to remind you that it's not about being perfect, it's just about bringing what you got playing the game, interacting with people, contributing where you can to others and keep on iterating this is a life we've got, we've got this whole amazing, beautiful life ahead of us with all kinds of opportunities for learning and creating, and the more you can just jump into it and play the game and get people to play with you and then just keep on making it better. And if you have to write something on your wall that says you're already done like you're done, were there were complete the rest, all gravy, this is a rest is just playing, so enjoy it and find people to remind you of that. If you need cool, we're almost done with questions. We have one more for you. If you're ready for that from steve whitmore, eighty one, what does progression and improvement look like? And metal learning? How often should we revisit some of the processes that you showed us, you know, that's a good question, I mean, I think again, it depends on who you are and what type of learner you are. I think if you want to set up a system for yourself where you're doing once a month, I like months as as an overarching sort of time frame. It's long enough where you can you can shift you, khun change directions and you can pave it if you need tio one possibility is to just say, ok, for this month to have a theme for the months maybe your theme is maybe your team is awareness for one month, you know, actually love teo teo, think about that. I'm actually this is thank you for that idea, because I think what I'd explores the idea of what if one month was all about awareness and then we iterated and went through the whole metal learning process about what did we learn? What do we know about ourselves? And how did that impact our goals? And how do we wantto convert that into smart goals? And then where do we want to go? And then the next month is, you know, about designing and what do we know about ourselves and designing? So I would say, if you're asking for time frame, I say, go for the month. A month is a good time, I think that's a great way to wrap up because one of things that we're doing this follows launching in the college captor program and we're in the process of designing a medal learning curriculum or each week we take a week and focus on one of these different schools and see how we can, how we can become better communicators or more self aware and see how we can become better learners so that that can then be applied to whatever subject the students pursuit. Fantastic. I'm so glad you're doing that because, you know, it's the way to create community for people to work on these on these school on the skills and tools together. So join join on in dale's gap here and lisa, thank you so so much for joining us. Let's get for a big round of applause. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Of course, where can we find you know, um, I am at least a b l on twitter and my website is lisa bl dot com um and I've also put up on my website lisa bell dot com slash creative live, where I'll post some follow up information for people who would like more resources for exploring this uh, this metal learning conversation further, thank you so much, another round of applause