Marilyn Oliveira, Exec. Editor of Inside Weddings
Primarily high jasmine how are you? Good. I'm so glad you're able to join us. Thank you so much. Of course it right. Ok, and I know that you guys air closing your issue today, so I know that its soul crazy. So thank you so much for just taking some time out of your schedule and we will not be offended if you have to cut the conversation short due to what's going on because we totally understand, but I have a few like prepared questions, and I don't want you to feel like you have to adhere to them. So if you want to go off on tangents, we're totally kate, I think all of us are just excited to kind of hear from your perspective and to give you a little bit of like, lead into what we've been talking about today. I did go into talking about my very first print publication, and my very first print publication was with inside weddings, which is why I was so excited to have you join us today. And that first wedding was casey pinsky and nick licata could nick like cleric wedding and nicole pal...
acio silva was the one that kind of connected all of us, so I brought everybody kind of up to where we are today. So I want to know a little bit about yourself and how you got started with inside weddings magazine so that people going to get to know you personally before we get into, like, the business questions. Okay, well, I actually originally started in the entertainment industry and ended up losing my position due to a threat of a writer strike, which didn't end up happening, but a lot of people lost their jobs simply because of the threat of it, and while I was looking for full time work, I started going online and looking at anything that was related wedding, because I've always loved reading, and I was looking for something to distract me that was joyful and happy and hopeful, and I would spend hours on a particular wedding website that had recently launched with pre block. There weren't a lot of wedding blood yet, but I would spend hours looking at flowers and cakes and pretty dresses and reading about etiquette, and eventually I could find another job as an online editor, a web editor, which may be needed syrians to eventually become the editor of that same wedding web site that I had spent so many hours looking at everything. So I knew everything I needed to know about weddings, and I knew but web site inside and out and put so through a series of coincidences of blessing, then really good luck. I ended up getting hired there. I was there for five years and then I transitioned over to inside wedding four years ago. Nice. Okay, good. Well, thank you for letting is like bringing us up to speed and also letting us know that you've been there for about four years, because I think that that will go through and encourage us to, like, and here your advice because you clearly know you're talking about. Okay, so what's the best piece of advice that you can offer to photographer when they are submitting a wedding for publication. The best piece of advice I can give to a photographer is to know your intended audience is because there's a wide variety of different types of bridal magazines, all of which have different focus and make sure that you're mastering your position toe what public patients but specific focus. So it's it's a wedding publication of not really, it tends to publish wedding that are very quaint and small and charming and have a lot of do it yourself details built send them a really big over the top, uh, luxury high end, letting it it's that's not what they're focused, attend life birthday so it really pays to do your research and narrow down on your knees bent to the one level it's that particular magazine style and focus awesome, ok, so this is a small tangent question, but how would you typify or how would you describe the weddings that you guys are described in publishing or known for publishing? We're devoted to publishing riel wedding and other real events at our luxury that so we're very much in the luxury wedding side of things, so are tend to be larger weddings that are more elaborate and have a lot of details to basically the point of doing the real wedding, giving inspiration to other bride so that they can see a different types of big, poor and really beautiful flowers and cakes and venues that are pretty much the sky's, the limit that they can take different elements of those scale them down to what they're doing is our own wedding, or if they're having a really large wedding than they know exactly who to hire because we published the vendor lists, so we're known for those large, elaborate like pre wedding from across the country on many different styles as well. So they're not all hotel weddings there, not all outdoor, they're not all indoor, but a minute of high end weddings across the country. That's perfect. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, so what's one thing to avoid when somebody, when submitting a wedding for publication, wanting to avoid over submitting, and that applies to both a number of weddings that he's been toe one publication and the number of images that we send her wedding. I can't speak for the other publications, but we tend to cap it it about thirty images, and you should really focus on spending your best work spending twelve or fourteen weddings at a time. We already know that we're going to have to sift through and find out which one is the best one to center absolute number one top wedding each public patients on dh call back the number of photos for each I've actually received is that had the entire wedding on it every single spot from the leading thousands of them and it's not fun kind of real and pick out which ones are the best ones to try to give you an idea of what the wedding actually looked like. So narrow down the photographs and only send your best work. That is really good, and I don't know we're all trying to, like quietly laugh so that we don't interrupt what's going on with you. But if you could see the, I wish you could see our expressions because we're all like pretty much laughing when he said, like sending a disc with, like a thousand images. So sorry if it's like dead silence over here like we're definitely we're definitely listening to you and we think you're funny okay, so what makes an ideal wedding simitian? What makes your job so easy when you open something when you open a submission or what? What makes it ideal for as an ideal wedding submission is well, first of all the way that the wedding is submitted and there's a couple of different ways that will accept them we have a link online where you can fill out all the information on the online form and submitted that way and it tells you that you know how many photos a blow and what types of photos to upload we are also aren't too bright life, which is a great research and it's very affordable for photographers but it basically allows you to upload photos include information about each wedding and then we can go online and find everything in one place we'll also accepted disk but in terms of what I would love to see is basically all of the basic information that involves the wedding the couple name where the couple took place city and state the wedding days because that's important we need to know how hold the leading is and we need to know what is appropriate and inappropriate for and also it's a just make sure the label is with your name so many times I'll get a submission where it's a disk and it's. Not all this information and I don't know spend it. I have no idea presented or there's a part that was stuck in there that lost, and I'm looking, I have five cards and I have three disks, and I don't know which one goes with whip, so it really pays write your name down on the desk, if nothing else, so at least I'll know who to call if I did some of the other information get separated. We like to see detail shots and big pores. That's what our real weddings are known for. We feature between and twelve pages for wedding, so that's a lot of content that we need to see and it's all before all of it. Obviously, we include bryce and greens and their families and the bridal party, but the majority of our real weddings focus on the details in the big four it's also helpful to have a partial list of vendors it's still that we know if we know anybody, if the people that we've worked with it's, an advertiser that's always been not like, well, they don't rely on only advertisers to make the missions, we don't make our decision based on there's, an advertiser but there's two equally beautiful weddings that took place in the same city and state one had an advertiser attached in one doesn't we're probably going to lean on that had someone that we knew the catch to it well we're all sitting here just nodding our heads because we've been spending the morning talking about everything I did wrong and so far you've proven that I yes did things wrong but I think somewhere along the line I learn from my mistake and the information that I'm sharing with photographers allies very much tio what you were talking about so thank you so much and this is kind of a tangent question that I didn't I didn't kind of send you in advance but if you had to assign a percentage to the amount of details that you would like to see in a submission so if somebody is submitting, you know x amount images what percent of those images would you like to see dedicated to details if you had to assign a percent eighty percent at least and then as it may not be true of other publications but because we're so specific about showing the decor and showing the venue we don't need to see forty couple shots we just need a few couple shots in order to buy if this is a wedding that has potential but we really, really need people venue and the report the floor of the the rentals the tabletop ceremony set up all of these are really important tax well, good, thank you so much. So it's a kind of shift years as heinie bit. What do you think are the benefits to a print feature versus an online feature? Well, pretty sure that they're just bride bryants have been waiting their whole life to have a license to buy a magazine it soon as they get the ring, that's their license and it's for a very short period used to buy bridal magazines for an after your wedding that you kind of have to be self about it or people might think you're crazy so bright will up are very excited by the night of things, and they like being in a sit in bed and put the pages of the paper it's a very tactile basement when you have a bridal magazine in your hand and it's something you think three on with you, not that flogged and web sites aren't also great they're great and a lot of pictures all at once that they need in your hand and the richter's being able to carry it in your handbag and top it with you all that I've been getting published. If you're a bride, we hear all the time that there's nothing like it it's just arkin facts of the classic fashions always wanting to see yourself prince knowing that there's you wedding at are able to be published makes it special to the bride and and it also makes the specials to the vendors that involved that are involved that the level of bad I guess what's the word there the exclusivity of being in fact is it's so much sharper because we are so limited and the numbers you know that if you're selected into be published in the magazine that you're working is that your work is very accepting because we're not putting in online with a thousand other weddings, these air the twelve that made it into this dish for deer that kind that were made it that made it issue out of all of the traditions that we received so it's special both that the bride and the vendors very cool so I've been getting and I can't definitely cannot answer from a one from a print from an editor's perspective or even from print perspective, so I'd love to hear what role do you think styled shoots play in the wedding industry and do you feature styled shoot? And if you do in what capacity we actually don't publish styled shoots in print it's something that we're exploring for our block and or our website which is currently being redesigned, but I think they do have a place in the industry they're great to have in terms of giving bright ideas, being a lot of different vendors together and showcasing how they can work together we're because we're dedicated to riddle event every wedding is a real wedding of your shower every little dinner it doesn't fit for formula but again it's something that we would consider for online publishing the only thing where things get a little sketchy in terms of with bride can can really use a styled shoot it's it's it's so elaborate and so out of the part that it's something that they can't recreate they fall in love with a scene in a style shoot that really can only be done one time it can be a little disappointing to a bride and take that cute chew their vendors and says I want to recreate this if it's not possible but there are of a sheet that air done really well that even though they're spectacular they can be re created more than one table that could be recreated for a whole letting and selecting thank you definitely have a happy night yeah yeah that's perfect and I think we're definitely on the same page in regards to that so thank you do you have simple tips that you can offer to a photographer to improve his or her skills? Your eyes are their vision for the day to me the most important advice that I could give to a photographer that is looking to improve is study and learn lighting techniques writing is so important in so many ways it doesn't matter how beautiful a wedding is it's the lighting makes the too dark for a magazine published there's nothing that can be done about it and there are lighting techniques that can be used on equipment that can be used in trip it can be used so even if it is a really dark wedding where there's lots of shadows there are ways that an experienced and talented photographer can't get around those problems and basically a photographer who can master the light is a true artist and it's worth making the investment and learning and studying and getting the equipment in order to do that that's great that is really really good and I don't know I don't know exactly what you can see on your end but everybody's scribbling notes who thank you this has been really really good so far so do you think there's a particular style of photography in regards to how the body processes there images that works better for publication are there there's a their styles or trends that you think photographers shouldn't stay away from in regards to print? Well this isn't this is an old one but it's still pops up every once in a while the fish eye lens the fish I shot isn't popular for at least for us way tend not to see any trip coloring we're blocking white flowers think a lot of these things are sort of passe that we don't we don't see a lot of but they still prop up and so I would recommend staying away from those type thing. What is there anything that you wish or what's something you wish everybody did when submitting a wedding for publication? One thing I wish everybody did well, I went over a lot of it already in terms of make sure we know who you are thinking, you know, because when you submit the wedding or the other thing is to make sure that it's just visiting the wedding on behalf of somebody else do it, a planner, a consultant or florida has asked you admit the wedding to us, make sure that you referenced that person that that's another thing that happened with some frequency actually is I'll get a guest and it has been part of his name on it and nothing else, and I don't know who it is or why I have it, and so I'm just looking at it in terms of a random riel wedding from someone who didn't really take the time for the effort to make sure that it was a complete submission. And like I said earlier, sometimes it matters because it can make a difference if we know who else is attached to a wedding if you're doing it on behalf of something else, I haven't done a lot of times that person will college the florist policy, they always said it is a wedding and I find any record of it if I didn't know that the disk that was submitted by that photographer was on that sport I hope that all makes that yes it has guys are you ok? So how many images do you think of her talk photographer should include when submitting a wedding for publication like what's too many or actually how many taking we prefer to capital around thirty and they don't have to be high resolution for a submission because if we're interested in the wedding then we'll ask for the high res images but thirty is enough for us to get a good idea of the wedding again eighty percent the core and venue and detail shot it's enough it's anything less than now we might have to ask for something like a little there's no picture of the tape for a well I don't really there's no shot of the bouquet any more than that it starts to get redundant but we really just need to get an overall idea of hollow wedding look and how much detail went into it so I kind of steering away from a lot of couples shot is helpful really quick just declare fight did you say thirty or eighties way like to cap it around thirty twenty two? Thirty is ideal for us other publications may be different but for for inside wedding twenty to thirty images it's just about right that's great learning new stuff okay how do you I know that you had I know that you had mentioned the different avenues in which people can can send you submissions is there a way that you prefer and I know that every publication is different but how do you prefer it at inside weddings? I'm okay with a disk or the online form or too bright lights to the way that I don't like to receive them with an email link because females get lost well the headers are something that's memorable and we're trying to assert our environment we're trying to spend it you to each other so everybody in the office india to bright lights would probably be my number one number two would be thie online form number the online form is number one for brides but first photographers it's connected enough between two bright lights and the online form and then third would be a dead and please don't send them by email because they're so easily lost oh I think good this is all super helpful thank you we'll enter do you think a print editor would feature something that has already been featured on a blogged on wedding glove? We really tried to avoid that the problem was it already appearing on a block and a half the photographer's blogged photographers website and there's a few pictures that we can work with that but if it's already been posted in its entirety on log it's already been seen and people have probably pirated some of those images and posted them on their blocks and they spread like wildfire they end up on interest, they end up on love early they can be all over the place and it has a lot of money for us the print single wedding it's tens of thousands of dollars we don't want to spend that money where to vote those ages two images that have already been aimed all over the vital community so that's really not that we be christ the blocked or the website their content just want to make sure that our ahs precious possible on and then later was accomplished the blood and how somewhere we're happy you know we won't be stingy with the images they can be published anywhere they want after they've been published in the magazine and I think a lot of publications feel the same I can't speak for all of them, but I know some of the other editors and I know that several of them they build the same good that's this is all been super helpful. What do you wish was included in submissions but hardly ever appear initially but what would make your job easier upon looking at a submission what's once a couple things that you think I wish this this was always included the overall shots of the menus that the giant room shot sometimes we ask for a lot of details and we ask for a lot of the core shots, and we do ask for venues that having the entire room because we do two page spread all over weddings are are sequential there's, no ads that break up our weddings, and so we might take one picture and devote two full pages to it, and we need to know what the entire base. But I think it's, one of the things that were known sport with every submission included that overall room shot for both ceremony face and the reception space. That would be great, that's awesome. That is a really good. Now I think I have, like, one or two more questions. So what do you say? Well, I was asked this this morning, so I'll start with this question. Is it's not in my notes? But how long should a person a photographer wait before submitting his or her wedding to another print publication to another magazine for consideration? Our policy is because way do you have to have wedding that took place within the last year? This little bit of wiggle room there, but we'd like to get them right away so that we can consider them for more than one issue, so if we get a june wedding and it's already may of the following year the on ly wedding we would issue we would be able to publish that wedding in this summer is doing authorities done but the time is following neck but we did and it's been a wedding that just happened that berkeley it could be it could be eligible for up to three issues now the problem with that is that the photographer is waiting to find out if it's going to be published in one of the u s for another didn't make it and spring know well is it going to make it in summer and we understand that so we ask that you are going to submit a wedding to multiple outlets just keep us informed just make sure that we know we can't always give you an answer right away we understand if you want to give it to somebody else and just let us know that we're not considering it because picks up elsewhere that's perfect that actually you and actually answered my second question was whether or not a photographer should submit the same wedding to multiple publications but from your perspective that's fine as long as they keep you posted exactly perfect I think that's great and we did start a little bit early and what I going to do now is going to open it up to questions we have questions from students in class way have questions from students on the internet so I'm going to start with a first in class question from john, although you say it's all right for a photographer to submit to multiple publications, if you're informed, does that hurt their chances of being in your publication when you know that it's being considered elsewhere? No, it really doesn't a cz long way probably were not thinking about that. We're not thinking that oh it out other publications were thinking of how we consider it in, and once we're told that it's no longer available, we'll drop it until that time where we still consider it available, and we give it the exacting weight, as we would any other submission. I can't speak for the other publications, but inside weddings that what we're going to now we have moderators that are going through questions on the internet, and their names are kenan and laurey, and so they'll probably be rotating between the questions if that's okay, so I'm gonna turn it over to kenya to canada. First hi, maryland. I have a question from m e who says, do you accept black and white images? Or do you need everything in color? For starters, we can see a couple of black and white images, you know, just for effect, the majority should be in color, but we certainly don't mind having the odd two or three black and white to see what your style is great thank you. Hi marylin laurey here a question from life by rebecca is is it okay for a photographer to use the foes on the clients many site before it is published in print again as long as the number of photos very limited been that's fine yeah it looks like we have a lot of questions about that that topic of can I post to facebook or um the number of images to post well since there is that long waiting period to hear back um quite a few people are wondering about kind of like the communication style and protocol in waiting in between so once they submit the images on disc do they follow up with you and check after a month or two to hear paddler welcome to follow up in and check in after a month or two and just we will usually want a commission we will contact you and confirm our teeth we will I should clarify that get it just get a mission from that well if it's on to bright lights we communicate to bright light that we won't devalue person but we use the two bright life but we'll confirm receipt we'll let you know if you needed it more images about particular style and we'll also let you know up front what are dates are we're making decisions for the spring issue between this time in this time I'm and we'll let you know, so you're not sort of in the dark, wondering when you're going to hear and then if you don't hear from us within that syrian, feel free to call again, we've had a be honest at a little bit of issues with, with people being really aggressive, and even though we said ok, way can't make decisions about all issue and this time period with people you know, still enquiring multiple time, which can be a little frustrating. It is, if you haven't done anything or that time period has asked her it's getting close and you or if you want you, if somebody else is asking about it, they're about teo to commit to publishing the wedding, and you just want to check with us really fast. That's that's going welcome as well. So many maryland kind of to follow up on that question from jonno blow or seventy four? Is it too much to submit your wedding be a more than one system? So for example, to bright lights and a disc? Yes, I don't recommend that then where we're in putting it in our system, plight and again, it's much better just to pick one and stick with that, ok, another question, from the internet, from latina so if it takes a blogger magazine almost a year to post, when is it ok to tell your bride? She composed the images on facebook and when is it ok for the photographer to post it to their blawg? We will always send a pds we'll send typically will send a pdf on dh. We'll let you know which issue is it when the issue is going to be on newsstands so that you the rice knows, and you euro erin you once it continues down, then it's fine for for images to go up and again, we're ok with a few images being up there being on facebook just as long as a lot of images aren't because it's images that we were going to publish aren't all over the internet does thank you question grill in, um, it's jasmine. Okay, so are there certain? Are there certain issues in which you feature something in addition to real weddings? So, for instance, late last year, I had the honor of being featured inside weddings for my sister's bridal shower, but I wasn't. I didn't know that you guys were going to be featuring bridal showers up until just like a haphazard conversation between people and then I was able to submit now is there any way that you would be able to notify people in advance of what you might be featuring or is like saved is the bridal does like the bridal shower come out, you know, follow, you know, fall winter or are you doing different types of events or was that just like a one time thing? Well, actually we were thinking of doing of added, we have a formula for every issue which isn't true of a lot of other magazines, but but we have a formula that we follow it pre clear what type of content are going to be featured in every issue, the bridal shower and the rehearsal dinners with something that we were thinking about doing that having you did do when way have that conversation and so we decided to go ahead with it. And now there's there's alternative if you will spend in almost every year sometimes will get the summer is because we have other types of extra editorial we have extra fashion in the summer issue. We have experts story features in this summer so that typically the one issue where we don't include a shower are critical deck about all of the other seasonal issues willing blues alternative of us and we usually rotate like we'll do bridal showers one is due and then the next issue will do a rehearsal rehearsal dinner so are those the two are those two events related to a wedding that us to do or anything outside of that we would consider engagement party and we just don't receive very many have come if and we'll do three events perk issue so expectations about a trial this week we obtained three engagement parties that were great and we're fit for the magazine we would also entertain that as at present avenges how and one thing to mention is that the alternative events I don't need to have taken place within the last year there's really no time limit on not the bridal shower the rehearsal dinner engagement party you ended on there isn't necessarily a one year time frame in which people could submit the alternatives so the rehearsal dinner the bridal party and the ever so rare engagement party exactly they took place two years ago three years ago it's still eligible create that's exciting we haven't any class question from britney okay, I know that you said that your magazine includes alternative events how would you recommend finding that out for other magazines? Is that something you would email the editor and ask oscar specifically or him specifically or how would you go about finding that out? That's a great question I would contact the editorial department and find out what they're accepting submissions for if there are alternatives events um again our way we typically stick to a formula in one issue, that type of editorial will probably be in the next, but in terms of other publications making a phone call or shooting and email, they might have their editorial mission guidelines somewhere in the magazine or on their website. But so any of the above would be integrated part if I'm not out, this is so great! I feel like I'm totally soaking you for everything you're worth, but I'm going to respect your time, so I think I am kenneth and laredo have a couple more questions, maybe two or three, and then we'll end it probably there, but I'll officially thank you when we're done, but we're going to turn it over to the moderators. Ireland live right here, a question from the internet from caputo underscore f maryland, where did the images on a spread of different photographers come from? Do people submit individual images? Are they do those get chosen from larger submissions that didn't get featured? We don't typically feature that type of spread, so and I can't speak for other magazine, but if we do articles that will have an individual photo and they're basically from from past issues or submissions that were made where we didn't use the entire wedding or the entire event. And occasionally will do at it for well teacher editorial photo in those articles from a position where we weren't able to speak for the entire wedding but we asked permission from the photographer can we use this in some of our as other editorial? Excellent thank you great and this's another question from katrina I'm working with other photographers to put together our first styled shoot how should we go about submitting it since there are multiple photographers seeking credit? Or is that even a good idea? I think maryland just said that she doesn't they don't feature styled shoots eso it wouldn't necessarily be fit for inside weddings, but if they wanted to submit it to blog's I would caution heavily teo it probably shouldn't be submitted because there's too many cooks in the kitchen and somebody's bound to get hurt in that situation and it makes it difficult for the blogger to attribute appropriate photo credit words d'oh so they should just recalibrate their goals and probably say it's for their creative collaboration and not necessarily for it to be featured. Thank you for the interception no that's fine having one more question for merely good and get you could get a maryland approved okay good, so we'll have maybe just one more question if that's okay absolutely tsl pictures is wondering if you publish alternative weddings are do you go with more of the classic look we have censored some alternative weddings again they all pretty much well under the luxury titled the luxury category but we featured a couple of a wedding one was a musician's wedding where everything was black and red and the total loot at barclays soles on them and they used a black aisle runner and they had black chairs but it was still very out yet and very upscale and just very, very tastefully done we will also dio just outdoor weddings that have a western look to them one of the weddings that currently on newsstands in our spring issue took place at a farm and you had beautiful details so it wasn't a hotel wedding with with over the top that dick or it was built very beautiful, very elegant and very tastefully done so the builder the keywords tasteful and elegant regardless of the overall style as long as it's done well it has the possibility and the potential of being a bit breast very cool one of the examples that somebody had said was like a rock star style wedding so that on dh maryland maryland I just have one more quick question for you jasmine approved on on that is from fame can someone from outside the u s contact you for publication so we have a huge global audience here a creative live and wondering if that is an option as well it is an option I will be honest the we also have a large international following but wedding we would typically focus more on the american couple getting married in another country verses a couple from another country getting married in their own country on lee because it's very difficult to verify all of the vendor information at the fact check everything and language barriers there, time differences, and it shows a lot of challenges, but we will accept those sometimes it works out, and in fact we have a wedding that took the folly that we're going to be featuring in the fall issue, and there there wasn't a problem, we were able to communicate with the consultant and communicate with the other vendors to fact check everything and it's, not something that we do a lot of things that will consider great. Thank you that's a great question cannot thank you, maryland. I just want tio, thank you from the bottom of my heart. I actually think that maryland is one of the classes people I have ever, ever, ever in canada, and she has an obsession for paper goods like she loves handwritten notes and it's such a it's such a thing that is just kind of drawing me to her. If you guys would like to know more about maryland, you could follow her on twitter at wedding editor, and you could also learn more about inside weddings at inside weddings dot com and if you want and like I said mentioned earlier in order to be privy to what editors are looking for what the inside track could be I think a great way to connect with them would be on facebook so make sure to like inside weddings on facebook and find them there maryland thank you so much well thank you it was an honor and a pleasure to be included thank you so much for thinking of me I appreciate it no thank you for giving my giving me my first print publication and letting me make all the mistakes you thank you thank you thank you everyone thank you have a good day to you uh oh she's so nice like she's so so so nicely such a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful person okay um there was one question in there oh in regard that lori had asked in regards to how the editors procure single like one ofthe images I had mentioned earlier to follow editors on twitter and sometimes an editor will put out a maryland doesn't necessarily do this but rebecca crumley of the not does it quite frequently will she asks for one ofthe photos like these rare types of photos if they happen to be looking for for an editorial piece and that's a great way to see one of your first pictures in print and it doesn't necessarily have to be in over the top wedding, it could simply be that they were they were looking for something so honed and specific that you you had a photo that fit the bill so that's a great way to get in, as well as having your work being submitted. And even if it gets past sometimes on editor might remember a photo archive, a photo that even if that wedding had been featured elsewhere, there was this way one particular photo that they wanted or needed, but because you had submitted it and got it in front of their eyes, it was probably a great opportunity for them just mentally to keep it in the back, and all of a sudden they're like, oh, hey, we need a photo of a couple kissing and a getaway car on a tuscan villa, and that was the photo that you happened to give them, so just keep those in the back of your mind again. Editors can't publish what they don't see, so don't don't limit yourself, you know, it's it's, if you can get developed fixed skin, I have been denied more than I have been accepted, and I just know that it's part of our industry and if you're not ready for the denial, quite yet hone your craft practised, develop your brains, but if you're way ready and willing to kind of get till tough and tumbled lynn yes. Start submitting. Get some feedback for it. I think it's exciting and it's. Good. Are there a couple questions before we take a break? Great. Yes. I would love to return to the question that I've fumbling way. So, lonnie newbie photography has rewarded her question for us. Thank you. If we know that we need to re brand, do we streamline? Will we have in our portfolio so that it shows where we want to do? Go in the future versus how we have shot in the past until we're able to put together our own selves shoot but how does? Absolutely absolutely if you can do that, you're already two steps ahead of the game. If you know that you have to re brand and you could take your current selection and then choose photos that reflect not what you have but where you want to go really only done brilliantly. It I'm telling you, is hard work and it's painstaking, and it hurts your feelings and you cry because you think you're the worst photographer ever grace the face of this planet. I know because I launched a new website and you for feel that way it isn't it isn't until everything's done you can kind of take a step back and think that hard work was worth it I think we actually accomplished what we wanted tio so if she's ready for the hard work yes do it and that's where she should be going absolutely glad we clarified that yes that was a wonderfully worded question yes ashleigh yeah I know for inside weddings they she said they feature more high end stuff where there's probably not a lot of d I y elements and I guess in your opinion if you had a wedding which mean it wasn't it away between different wedding magazine he would be submitting for would you want to include those that would you include if the bride had a how we talked about yesterday for blog's including where the bride found x or how she made x or whatever that saying that people are going to look for a cz well um or less so ok when it comes to print I would there isn't a print publication that's dedicated tio that I know of that's on a national level that's dedicated to d I y yeah so I propped just my knee jerk reaction and I would probably to do more homework to feel confident in the answer but my nature answer is going to be if you have a lot of d I y elements send it to highly traffic it block if you think it's good, I think you'll get more traction there because that's the audience when you have a bride who's looking for weddings in a magazine, she's looking more for ideas that she could buy incident ideas she could make from my experience great to have a cover war. A couple more is great to morning two more before great eye from christian mason do use any pr agencies, representatives for your submissions or marketing in general? If not, how do you build such a good relationship with all the editors? I don't use a publicist, I do all submissions on my own and the way that I have been able to talk to you and again marilyn and I are not b f f fs we don't, you know go in some are cookouts or anything like that it has been I have only been published in inside twice and I have been denied more than that. I won't give you the number, but either way it's a good it's a good way for me just to reach out and I went to a conference that I saw her as a as a panelist and she had mentioned that she likes that she likes people goods and from one paper order to another I happen to be out on twitter I found out like or something in a small world connection found it was her birthday so I bought her stationary a small little set of no cart and they milled in turn and he said thank you for everything you've done and that investment if I'm being quite honest and I'm hoping she's not looking anymore that cost me like twenty two dollars four set a note cards and uh you know, I think quite possibly the note cards have buttressed a relationship for me to ask for a very personal favor I needed her to come and teach photographers and she agreed and do I think she agreed because of the no cards? No, but I think that no cards helped yeah, I do. I really do so remember it's the it's the cornerstone of what I believe become more interested in that person than what that person can do for your business? And I really do think that it changes the dynamic and what it is so thank you, thank you guys and um one more question before we get a break don't read it off because he would have no problem it's from mmp twenty three I do not focus made on mainly weddings I enjoy family and children photography but I watched this entire weekend because of my respect and uh for u s so my question is in your opinion how could I apply what I have learned this weekend other publishing's that are not wedding based, thank you, that is, well, one. I don't know what I think, it's, because I haven't slept, but already craig's, like jasmine let's, see if you can get it to a creative live without crying. And already that will comments like thank you guy see is getting towards the end, like the finish line, and I'm like, oh, god, it's going okay, the reservoir b a building, okay, I don't know necessarily if there are print publications that cater tio children's portraiture and family portraiture, but I do know that there are so many blog's out there that do. There are lifestyle bloggers that are looking for content, and I am obsessed with lifestyle blogger. I'm just going to say, but it's, just my personality. I follow these complete strangers on the web, and I'm just like, oh, where did you get those socks? Where did you get that ruler? I want that pencil I mean I start just looking I mean these I don't have I don't have a child but sometimes they buy their baby's clothes and I'm like I'm just going to buy that maybe because for that child that may or may never come in the future, whatever the case may be but I'm just kind of I like them so they're always looking for fresh ideas to share so here's here's where I believe photographers have the advantage they are content core raiders and we are content providers. So what are you doing to create that content? So to go back to the original question, what can they do to apply what we're talking about? Could you possibly set up a style shoot where you work with a local children's clothing boutique and ask them do you have any returns or what they referred teo I think that referred to them is like s o d's or ddos is I'm dyslexic where somebody will bring a return that's already been worn and maybe a button fell off and they can't restock it but it's virtually a new shirt until the keeping sometimes in stock all it takes is free to walk into a teak and ask are there any clothing that you might want me to feature and then as a trade I will be more than willing to give you all the images and then as a gift you could possibly, you know, order like a but a sixteen by twenty four or twenty twenty four campus print from white house that investment right there is a one hundred and seventeen dollars, and in addition to giving them accessibility through a past gallery and saying that they can download all those images and share them on facebook, which returns the marketing back teo you, you're giving them a canvas to hang in their stores. When everybody anybody looks at that, what photographer was that? Oh, that happened to be photographer x. We collaborated, and she gave me a promo card maker, the five by seven promo cards with that stores boutique, local and a small little copyright of your name in the lower right hand corner wrapped in a boat, leave him at the store. So what just happened is that this person is giving the ability to use those clothes. You, in turn, give them a gallery, given the campus print given marketing materials, and I can't help but think that that's going to create a snowball effect for success.