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Editing Images Q&A

go to from the student questions. And so we have. Um from photo Jen 2011. Have you ever had a mom or someone that didn't like any of the images? Sometimes moms are hard to please. Well, there was a client where And this is what prompted joy to say this in our discussion about what to wear yesterday, where she just she didn't like her hair. So she had did she had done it herself. And then she was, you know, thinking I should have had it styled that day or gone to dry bar or something to have its doubts. And so she couldn't make herself, like a lot of the picture just because she was so sort of consumed with that. She didn't like what she had done with her hair that day. And that was kind of frustrating because there were so many great shots of the rest of the family. But she wasn't on board with that. And so that was hard for us. So But it's usually a lot of that is things like that. And I think that things like that are easy. Teoh catch. If you do, allow yourself to have a consultation...

, and especially when the what to wear conversation comes up. Or if it doesn't to touch point on that and to say, like, you know, feel free to get your hair done or if there's something I feel free to get your head in, get your hair done gave her down in a way that you I was tell people when people have asked me about makeup in here and things I was saying, Don't go anything to drastically different than you do normally because then when you look at the pictures, he won't look like yourself and you won't like them. That's a good point. And also, some portrait photographers offer, Ah, hair and makeup is part of their package, which is any idea. I think so. And if worst comes to absolutely worse, we can always reshoot. I mean way. We're always let's say that everything we do is refundable. It's all guaranteed, and if they absolutely don't like their riches, we'll reshoot it for them. So I think that clients feel that safety net like they don't like the pictures, we'll reshoot it. We've never had to do that. It's true, but what we will we would again that we want them to have that positive experience. So So when we're looking at the slide show, we saw a number of images in black and white, and a lot of folks are asking if clients asked for the color version. When you have presented it in black and white. And if so, what do you offer that? Or how do you know that? Yes, they do. Yes, they do often ask for that. Um, and if you shoot in raw, you have, of course, that option to go black and white and color often times. It sometimes gets to be a problem for me and pro Select, because if Jules has given me the J pegs processed in black and white because as the artist she thinks that that's a better look for that particular image, then I can't show it in color in purse elect. But But they like another color style, and they know that they like that picture. I can always go back and redo that image for them. So you will Yes, absolutely. I mean, e think 99% of the time I would do it. Often, though I will try to convince the client like, you know what? This is really a better choice because of whatever the timelessness of this pictures. And then Sam Cox asks how soon after shooting a session are you ready to show images to a client the next morning? We don't usually get this way. I think that if you can keep the ordering session within a two week window of the shoot, that's pretty critical for a lot of reasons. One, you're you're maintaining the momentum of the excitement about the shoot. You are getting that workflow off your plate and the sale, I think, is that much more effective because they're still in that mode where they want those pictures, they want to see them. If you take any longer, then like it's in the way they start to bed about it. And, uh, so two weeks is about the longest window I like to go before ordering sessions. Anyone else have a thought about that? So which means you have to have your workflow pretty well home down because you need to be able to turn it around in that time. And also I don't think I said this yesterday But definitely when you're in your consultation and new book the shoot, you book the ordering session at the same time. You don't want to be chasing them down after the shoot like Wait, what are we gonna look at? Your pictures and then they finally go. Oh, just put him online because, you know, we can't come up with a time. It's a and love CL. Last night I had a client asked what I did with the unedited extras. How do you girls respond to the clients that expressed interest in the unedited shots? And then also somebody asked if you what you do with those unedited ones or the ones that you love rejects of the rejects that never even make it t I keep them for a a certain amount of time and then, once the final product, have been made even with weddings in this way, Once the album is done, I'll usually dump those. But I always keep them because just in case somebody says, Oh, you know what? I don't see any pictures of my uncle, and he came all the way from Nebraska and on very rare occasion, will go back through wedding pictures to find something so I don't want to have Don't those pictures And on one super weird, rare occasion has never happened to me. I had a couple who wanted them and they they said, We want everything shot like every single frame you shot. We don't care if it's editor or not and I said, Well, that's very unusual And it is my policy to give raw image will not only rob but the rejects to like everything And so But, like my sister said, you never say no. So I said, Good, I'm not supposed to talk over. So I told him That's trying to figure it out like, Well, we quoted a price. We said, Fine, we'll we quoted a price. We made it a little ridiculous because we thought he's not gonna go for this. And he did. So we were like, You want him? You can have. Um, yeah. Then I gave Melissa inundated, engaging portrait studios like here have used to cause I figured if I quoted him a price that was sort of silly, that he would realize that there is a value to this, and it's kind of an unrealistic request. But when he said OK, fine and they sent me the money than I was and a hard drive to put them on, I mean, we just so that's sort of weird and and the truth is like it's not like I'm embarrassed for him to see them or something. I just want a certain body of work out there, and I know like Joyce said, he probably thinks he wants the nobody really doesn't want them all. So you know I don't want to be jumping through a bunch of hoops to get him. All these images really isn't. That's not a service that he really needs, but and the rare occasion they really do want them for real, then never say no, right And and he made it valuable enough for me to go with that effort of finding them again and put him out there, and so I was fine. But in terms of of just the normal people who say other other things we can look at, I'm kind of like joy in that regard. It's rare that I'll say, like I'm gonna go back into the not so great pile and dig up something that's not so great. You know, I think these are really the best ones. And did that answer the question? Yeah. Are there others? Thanks for all the good questions. And then we have a kind of questions. Were just trying t think like out the ones that are most relevant to right now. We'll be B and E photo asks, What if a client asks you to edit using selective color and you say It's not your style. They I think they also said about crops and using props. And it's not your style. Um, would you I'll take that one. I think that again, it'll go back to our original conversation about finding the right client for you, so you might hopefully not get to that place. If you don't use props, that's not the kind of style you shoot that you wouldn't end up with that client. But we did have that happened with the client that we've had for a long time. That was a wedding client. We did her engagement pictures. We did her weddings and then we did a pregnancy, and then she had babies. So when we went to do the shoot, she says She said, Well, what are you going to bring? You gonna bring a basket or you get it brings fabric. And I was like, Oh, like suddenly she was a different kind of quiet, and so we actually just had fun with that. And we put the baby in a basket and we just thought that was the one that you were showing with the hairdryer and we and she had this huge giant window. So we had some soft, soft, dark fabric and just draped it over a bean bag. And then really, just use it as sort of a photo studio so that it was a little more studio ish because we could see that's what she wanted. And they turned out awesome and enjoy. This stood over with hair dryer when I got low and just filled the frame with the dark and that left the window light fill them. I think it was on the seesaw those, and it was really fun. But But I think if that happens to you, well, I'm the shooting part. I'm more after, say sure, sure, let's do that. And then if I'm more careful about what I might blah about what I might use for marketing to avoid getting clients. You see, you know the kid in a silly costume and think I want that and maybe that's not what I want to be shooting. You don't want to show those kind of images to other people, of course, to the people you shot it for. Unless that's what you want to dio. You're thinking about your team to shoot. And I thought that was so cute. But as far as requests for post processing, I think I would be more adamant that I don't do that because what do you mean by that selective color, like their lips are red and the rest of its black and white, you know? So can you explain how maybe you would tell someone that maybe you don't do that? May be your best not working to get We didn't work together that way. I would really hope that would come out and try thinking what would actually say what really happened to me? I might I might concede and do an image and then endeavor to tell the why I feel like this is a really dated process and that I think that's the case. I don't just It's just a matter of style. Some photographers do that and they love it. And some people really like that. Look, I think that it's the medium has a lot of opportunity to do to do things. So what do you just make sure we'll do that? I think we're already in the situation and the picture had been taken and they came up with like, Oh, I really want this kind of look And they showed me some pictures that with the one color thing I could say, OK, let's pick the one image. You want to do it? And this is what we charged for Photoshopped work. Yeah, that's true. That's probably like much with the the weird request of all the rejected raw files if they are willing to pay a price that I feel comfortable with and we're gonna talk about that after lunch with everyone about managing boundaries with people, and I think that you know there's ways to do that where I don't want to say no to a client, but I also need to manage my own boundaries and not just like okay, sure, yeah, I'll do that till three in the morning when I don't really do it. And do you like this one? I mean, I will, but I'll be compensated for that. And I think that that's sometimes a difficult conversation to have because you don't want to ask for more money. But I think if you set up those expectations ahead of time, you know if this is it, this is something that's my mistake, that needs Photoshopped work like I didn't see this garbage can in the back. When I take it out, that's fine. I'm not charging for that. But if this is something that you want change like you want me to make you less wrinkled or fix your hair, you know, then that's that's going to be something that we'll talk about, what that looks like, and we know we're not sticklers for like, Oh, that was minutes of time. Sometimes we'll just do it. But if it's going to be something that's going to start taking into our my own life and workflow been well, I think in that regard, just so long as they understand, if you do something for them and don't charge them that it's still valuable. Like, you know what? Normally were $50 an hour and we charge in half hour increments. But this is I think this is a pretty easy one. I'm just gonna do it for you, and let's see what you think. So they know she's doing me a favor. I'm not gonna keep asking, asking. So what they do ask you again? You can You know what? This time I am going to charge. You have to charge right joy under the best. So I got really mad at me when I was editing that three. But I think there's ways to couch it like that. So that doesn't You don't have to seem like the bad guy, but you can still feel like you're not being taken advantage of. Yeah, that's great. I'm until about setting expectations, right? I would love to ask you one more question before we move along, because a couple people of asking Gloria and C and s if you could tell us again how much how much editing you do on the images before you show them to your client versus before you send them to the lab in terms of post prosecuting, not the cooling down and correct. Sorry, Post. How much? How much editing processing do we do before we show them to the client? Right. Look for for the well, that's what I was talking to Joe about that very thing last night because I try as much as possible t shoot correctly in camera, and I and I used Bridge and Enbridge. You can tell it, either do an auto auto adjustments on the bridge or the default would be, You know, the way that it was shot in camera. So I like to choose that as my default. So when all the images open and bridge, they look the way that I shot them. So a lot of times I don't do much to them at all. I might pump of a little contrast or tweak the white balance, the ones that I change into black and white. Yesterday, I really didn't like the color, and I struggled with them for a few minutes and I couldn't make them. It looked the way I like, So I just made about black and white, and part of that is because I didn't want to spend the time trying to make him all perfect because I could see that they were going to be a little more of a challenge. And because when I change back on white, they suddenly more impactful. Anyway, I liked them. And so, in that kind of case, I do try to do as many images, sort of clean straight. Chris, Nice color and try, for the most part, to give joy mostly color, because it's easier to come when people say they want black and white. But I do like to have a couple of black and white images, always to show how I do them, because I love high contrast. I have this warm tone that I have is a preset, which I'll show you that I put toe almost every black and white. I like the vintage sort of CP anus of it, and, um, in the case of those say they love them. But they wanted it in color. Then I would go back and take the time. Teoh work it up in color and make the Cullimore correct because she likes it, and I know it's worth it, and she's purchasing it. So in that case, will do it and then things that are going to go on an album like I don't want to work up and spend tons of time on images if, like Joyce said, No, no, no And then you know that's just a big waste time. So once we know which ones they love, then I'll spend more time. They're also one other thought about that Michael Horse. Santino is a friend of ours, a photographer in California, great guy, and he he does what he calls an artist edit where he'll pick his favorite. I don't know, five or so, and he will work those images up and he'll put on actions and he'll play with the color. He'll just make them really pop. And then in his ordering session, he'll show the before and after, like here. Here's the picture right out of camera and here's the picture, The way I see it as the artist, this is the artist edit, and that, I think is a great idea because it educates the clients as to what is possible with this picture. And we do that sometimes two or jobs will put a vintage the look on something and Also, I really like the color tones of this one. You see how this one is different, and so I think that shows the client with what you can do with those images. The other thing. Michael takes it one step further, actually, and he doesn't allow his clients to buy those artists. Edits at anything smaller than I think, like a 16 by 24. Or they have to be a canvas roof or something like that. They can buy them the regular versions before version if they want, but they want his artist edit that he spent the time working on and they like his vision. Then they have to buy those in a product that he sells. I thought that was a really great idea. Thank you, Michael. So you might have thought about that because I was. I always thought, maybe that's a waste of time. We spend that much time working up images, but it's been super successful for him, and I do like the idea of position yourself as the artist and letting your client see what's possible. But I'm curious. If anybody here does anything like that, I actually that I'm gonna Facebook and the one of my favorites and I work him over and upload them. And then, But I've never thought about taking it a step further and actually creating desire for products around my favorites. I start shell casing this program a little bit pro select, but I'll show you one thing that it's really cool you could do with it is that here's the picture in color and over here on this side, if you're in the view mode, you can. Actually, this it goes for original bees for black and white. What does it want? You didn't go. That's fine. That's black and white and then a sepia tone to that you can show. So that's fun. And you can actually adjust those in preferences, which I'll show you later. Um, so you can show if you have color images like what it would look like in black and white because sometimes it's easier for them. Obviously, everything I keep saying by what they see, they can visualize it. Then they will find that way. There's also this see right here stands for believe custom. You can load your own actions in there, and it will actually pop open a photo shop and and changing that way so you could have your own actions in there, whatever ones you like, that you can change right there.