How an Idea Becomes a Show Part 2
So the promoter midtown buyers also going probably consult with the marketing director to see if a show is a good risk. That is what the promoters doing. Meanwhile, the agent is talking to promoters around the entire country throughout the tour. Some things that they're going to consider when they're routing are things like day of the week, a time of the year, if venues are available, what other competing events are happening in that market and how far apart are these venues that they're trying to route? Can you make it? Oh, as you've seen the work to her a couple times were running around, we're we're rolling in and nine eleven on dh sometimes artists are gonna have specific requirements may be religious reasons they don't play on certain days of the week, maybe a certain number of miles because they don't like to sleep on the tour bus. They want tio ride the tour bus and they go to sleep in a hotel so there might be maybe requirements that were I wanted to a specific tour that's goin...
g to play, you know, the best monuments in america are, you know, some of the stories that we are going to some things like that where you've got agents of a sudden put in a different situation. You know, there might not be twenty holds on the grand canyon, but you've got to figure out what you can do. One of the great game. So there's. A lot of pieces that go together to put together a routing makes sense that actually ends up in place. Um, once all of the offers have been submitted by the promoters, the agent goes through and confirms the show's. Except the best offer and best offer might not be the most money. I think sometimes we get best offer and most money confused. Best offer might be the right place the right day, the ticket price, right promoters, the right promoter that knows how to get to the fans the right way. So I always think that when I read that I go, we got to make sure that your best offer is not necessarily the most money. Um, when they confirm the show with the promoters phone call I'm from usually a phone call might be a female, but they're going to talk about what data. We gonna go on sale. What is our general marketing plan going to be? And then they're gonna start issuing the contracts. The agent issues the contracts, the motor on the promoter is going to have some sort of contract office. Department that's going to then send it back and forth after andi you're lucky it's strange garb is a lot of times you don't have the cup final contract and found that he had the final contract finished the show you know we're getting better the music business was a creative that everyone gets up so between the agent confirming the show and the day of the show a whole bunch of stuff it happened on the promoter side um the promoters going to line up the ticketing they're going to contract with ticketing company and make sure that the ticket text on the ticket is what it should be tickets are available for sale, the price they're supposed to be and also now you know, that's a huge growth business with all the multiple ticketing companies out there I mean, it used to be we'd have ticketron and then ticketmaster and now there's you know, front gate you got flavors you got event, right? You got all these different ticketing companies and different things that people are working with, you know, all over the country so there's job opportunities out there in those ticketing companies right now a lot of people that want to get in the music space are coming through the ticketing companies yeah, it used to be ticketing was a very physical thing you went to a ticket location to buy a ticket or you know, then you can maybe buy it on the phone, but somebody had to mail you a ticket on dh. Now, with the internet there's so many more options there's more access to entry to be able to do your own ticketing and make your own tickets available for sale. So there's, there are a lot of opportunities out there. The promoter is going to generally head up in place the majority, the marketing, but the artist is always going to know what works best for that. Yeah, it's, stranger, the marketing that's a position that's gotten kind of like when you're going into a city with the amount of tours coming through, they may have a small local marketing department. So a lot of the agencies, a lot of the management companies, we, you know, we build our marketing. We do a lot of our own marketing because we feel that we market to our fans the best. That was like the webcast. We felt that was a good national marketing tool. So we have to go back to the promoters say, ok, we're going pull x amount of dollars of marketing out of your budgets to do what we think is best for our fans because they may have to do forty five shows, and that might be a kenny chesney show, you know, kiss show doesn't really match up to our audience, so they're more than willing to work now, it's a lot closer than a lot of jobs out there right now that people are hiring their own marketing department people within, you know, their companies that I feel like artists are taking a little bit more of the marketing responsibility on, but the promoters still know what works best in their local market on there can be some, you know, specific things that artist don't know about, you know what I mean, a lot of places you wouldn't read, but I think seattle time to still something you pick up the weekly here, some of those things he may say, look, that's really important that we're still advertising in that because our that fans still reads that we wouldn't know living in l a, that, you know, people picked it up because the l a weekly is kind of become not really a place where people go to look for shows in l a. So the big three marketing out media outlets that used to be the case, we called traditional marketing, tv, radio and print, we've also done a lot of outdoor billboards or mall billboards and street team is also, you know, handing out flyers and something that's very tangible, but obviously now the internet with social media and ah a company like moxie use moxie a lot that goes into high schools and works with us in high schools that works for us but you know I'm just saying whatever josh turner might not get the same success out of that but we won't have the same success working with the way that he markets his shows so it's really comes out of that manager working and that's usually the agent kind of backs out at that point the manager starts working a lot with the promoters a lot on the marketing side yeah it's a collaborative effort both sides tio get the most tickets sold to the show the local promoter is going tio oversee some requirements a lot of times you're taking sound and lights on road with you but sometimes those need to be hired locally uh but the production manager for that promoter which will frequently call the promoter rap will coordinate with the artist toe helpful foot fulfill what they need locally and they'll coordinate with the venue to provide with the artist needs on disqualifications have gotten much better you have to have much more computer skills I mean when I started out my basic qualifications I could read punk rock seriously the punk rock scene in l a mostly guys I could read that could actually read what may be a band wanted and there were dressing them now it's much more you guys we're gonna have to know google docks and all kinds of things that I'm actually trying to learn right now myself in this jan is teaching me had to be organized and have good communication thing than it was on the phone, yeah, turn into roles of fax paper and, you know, now it's all you know, electronic and everything, which, you know, guys like they have to take that time to keep up with you guys were just obsolete and out the door, I think you're still, but we still know how to talk on the phone, which a lot of you guys think about that porn, but the perrotta wrap is going to be the first one on site they're going to be there went before the building, even open, sometimes waiting for the building person open, they're going to be the last one to leave, so they're going to be there before the tour rolls in and after the tour rolls out and they're going to be the main contact for all of the tours local protect production needs. So while the promoter is lining up some stuff in advance, the artist team is also lining up a good number of things in advance. There needs to be people out on this tour, doing the jobs to actually execute the show, so we're going to take a look at the main tour management staff its production manager, to her accountant and to our manager, someone talk a little bit about production, production managers air usually the guys who worked with the artist to get their visions onto the stage at a club level, you're not going to have a dedicated production manager la times that's going to one guy that takes control of it in a band, but as you grow this production manager, they're going to help put together the big package, you know, working with the vendors, trying to get the art, the design of the production you want lining this up and creating the budget, hopefully early on, sometimes the mistake they did, they don't bring the production manager and earlier enough while they're making the deals to say, wait, my band wants eight trucks and it really, you know, they budgeted for two you got all kinds of things to fix, so bring a production manager and early on a large tour is, I think, very, very important because they can they're really think, you know, they work on getting all that together right there. We're looking at right there, you know, higher that, but if you get your production managers involved early as you go on you, it really is what affects the whole cost of the show andi, this type of job there's going to be a lot of on your feet, moving around on the day of show in advance. There's going be a fair amount of phone and computer, you know, office work, but, you know, day of your you're kind of on your feet quite a bit, and you're definitely a delegator, um, and overseeing the things that are happening, the two are accountant, which is your I personally think is the most fascinating role on the concert tour. You deal with a lot of money and sitting in a desk. Um, but it's, all cool stuff, uh, you know, as the tour accountant, my main role is teo oversee all of the on site financial transactions. So I settle the show at the end of the night, that means have a meeting with the promoter and agree upon how much we're going to get paid based on the deal that was already negotiated. But on the warp tour, I do things like pay all of the band's deal with some of the sponsorship people when it comes to money stuff, I keep a grid of all of the employees that we have to submit the payroll to the business manager, so I make a whole lot of spreadsheets, and I sent him into the business manager, and they they then put it in their accounting systems. The thing that's kind of funny is my titles to her accountant. But I don't do any accounting. Yeah, and everything. You know, it goes back to the beginning. You're beginning of your, I think the best guy in the world. It is when your merchandise person learn quick books or just some simple accounting form. So when a band cells that the problem bands get themselves in trouble all the time out of the road because they take the merch money every night to spend it forgetting that they have to pay the merged company they have, you know, so? So if you could get a little quikbook, learn some, you know, excel spreadsheet, shell spreadsheets. Yeah, lerner excel spreadsheet so you can keep track of what that band selling t shirt wise. I think that that's that's, your entry level accountant, and then that works in human that can actually settle the show and read the thing. Okay, we do get a bonus of four hundred tickets, and that first account just usually stands at the door of the clicker at a club. It is still as basic. Is that because they sometimes at a club, they'll say, well, there was really only two other people to go of words for one hundred people on my clicker that came in and then you have that negotiation at night it's all relevance of scale and is important to anyone at any given time of their career to where it moves up and coming on and it's the only business that you settle you settled business on the spot yeah there's no like I'll send you an invoice pay us in thirty days I mean that check giving that cash before I get on this or bus so so if you like to smoke weed or drink beer all the stuff coming that could be an accountant okay because you know, I used to see things like that and these guys would be transacting hundreds of thousands of dollars and it was almost like a game to see if I could I could make peace could not many but the people going how messed up the tour account in the band could be before he left and I actually got calls in the middle of night where it's like kept I think I left twenty grand at the table and of course I've got in my backpack because the promoter now that was funny that he forgot it I wasn't settling it because I was a promoter reps tell of the venue when the guy went back to his plus and woke up in that he's out of a job and I go yeah gary you did that give you the money back but no it's not some to be serious you know, but it's a good skill to develop early in your career, you know, learn, excel and then the band at the end you say no, we need to take some this money so we can pay the it is your company it's hard? You know, we can't get three hotel rooms tonight we have to get one because we still have to pay the t shirt bill. Okay, so if you are starting out and you know for a good time in your career is an artist, you are probably going to have a tour manager that is also the tour accountant and the production manager. I would say it worked to her. Every single tour manager is doing all three of those roles, so the tour manager, if there are those separate people, is really the one that's just in charge of the band and getting the band from point a to point b to their hotel to the sound check to the press interviews on stage on time um, it has to be organized. Yeah, yeah, well, we're in this video in a second, but it is that it's all it's that scale again all of a sudden you're doing all that job to a point where you're touring at one point in your life where you're with the band and you're just going to different hotels every day the production people are doing their own thing. You show up an hour before the show or there's gonna be a sound check, you come in with them and do that, then leave go back and you just it's almost like two separate communities. Yeah, the crew travels from venue to venue and the production manager gets the crew and the gear from place to place. And the tour manager gets the band from place to place and usually the ban to go to a hotel for straight, which, you know, not that I have ever wanted a fly on fly around in private jets and when we got to go on one when dexter from offspring lewis one time but it's like now I have all these friends that started on warped tour there. Like, oh, I just had to jump on the plate with bad, you know, you know, nine inch nails we went on like that that's my world or it could have been probably would have been, but wait a second, you know, get back on the bus, which is awesome. I love to get on the bus it feels so good on the ball, right? So we're going to play this video onto our managers for you guys because I always tell my friends I want to do this hey, you know a local band is going out for a weekend get in the van and go with them, see if you like it. You might be on the road for three weeks and need it normal tour managers responsible for all day of logistics go to production kind of repressed get set times radio everybody keepem, getem waters they gonna buy some pretty much like the road mom, what time can we noted? What time tony park, helen queen for take care of hospitality everybody there by out make sure the riders all there make sure we backline sound check make sure the years already and the guys on get the guys off back in europe and I settled at the end of the day. It's always going. The biggest thing is organization skills a zoo road manager you're basically just managing the lives of the people that you're on tour with, you organize everything they're gonna have to do you know what they're going to do that day for weeks and it's all about making sure that everything happens just right. I'd sent seventy five percent of your managing actually happens uh before you're on tour, if you're doing it right, I think it's just really overseeing and making sure everybody's doing their job, how he's feeling done and delegating appropriately so it can be done in the most you know, financially viable and efficient way possible for your artists because at the end of the day you're also the accountant on the road making sure that they could make money on you. All the guys that I know that are really good and the guys that I've looked up to you guys had a kind of mentor me throughout time have all they all come from the same background that I did and that was that was very early on getting in the van and going on tour and learning firsthand the easiest route for me was just work for friends banned because it was a foot into like a venue the music business is very political hard work gets you a long way, but knowing people in the business is like any other industry in the world really knowing people is what's gonna help you get your foot in the door and having the talent and the hard work and being ableto back up people putting in a good word for you would ever be able to back that up with raw talent and hard work is a really positive thing if you know friends man, do you want me to sold t shirts for you for free and just all hang out and sell your shirts or hey, do you need someone to help set up your stage you know, if you know anything about guitars were lighting or or sound to do that and then the other side which is what I do as well as internet a venue you know you have a house of blues here you or f w whatever okay, I'll work for free for free pay your dues get learned as much muscle as something that a lot of crew guys that air jane and old frowned upon his asking questions but I still ask questions because I want to learn and I don't want to be out here just doing the same old thing I wantto learn and be better at my job because I care about it I think a good tour manager you know holds no balance in the bottom line I always want to make sure my guys who really have at this point I've now done every job there is in the touring world because I wanted to be a good tour manager I wanted to have a you know, overall encompassing idea of what needed to be done in everyone's department I like to get really personal if all my guys because I don't want their ever to be a time where they feel like there's anyone else that they could talk to send me any issue they come into I want to be the first person that knows about it because that's my job to handle it you're going to listen, delaying the learn can't be right all the time. I think for a tour manager, if you're timid, then you're you're not going to succeed. You have to believe in what you do if your tm and everything comes on you right? So your merchandise bomb he's coming, your tech, his bombs coming, you ban is bombed about something, they're coming at you if you're staying calm and relaxed and cool collected that's going to spread down, you know I'm about to say rankings, but spread down the pyramid like that at the top guy that's gonna take the heat for everything to be relaxed, then it's going to trickle down to everybody else. So why? Why overreact? And when I get stressed out in a situation when you can just figure it out is always a solution sometimes going too easy sometimes going hard, there's always a solution as long as you keep that mindset with pm a positive mental attitude it's going to show with everybody but I'm not on the road it's my job, it's not a traditional job, any means, but I work. I work my ass off. I treated like a job everybody has their own way of doing it. So it's just like the music is the art form like my work is my arm so I tried to perfect that and sell it to the point where people want that you know, I hate to think about this is a job really just bumped down like when I'm running for a job I'll stop touring and I'll do something else and I'll work so it's almost like that's the reverse pyramid you're like that tour managers to speak it between you got the top managers and agents and everyone that they're communicating out in the outside world everything in the inside world I can't look at them is the person right in the middle there they're on sight seeing what's happening on site that day taking care of the on site and the managers and agents are off site doing the big picture career of the artist and everyone in that video I've witnessed their growth within the business because a lot of it's come through our tours I remember when they were selling merch out of the road and things and for every one of them there was a guy sitting his birth merch booth with a nice just full of beer and I don't see him anymore not to say and I'm not you know, saying straight edge or this or this but is taking your job serious there's moments you could have fun this is a business about having fun but it's that the way they present, I think it was really sparking when you give me a video that those were the same kit and then when I'm thinking about the kids, I don't see any more, and a lot of that was that, you know, they lost money, they didn't keep track of books, they were hanging out with the band too much and not doing their job. These guys, like he says, I want to be with the band and know everything about them, but it's like I'm not, I see these guys taking a job super serious out there, and these are the future guys that, if they choose, will be doing arenas and all the things later on that maybe they aspire to well and that's one of the things about her castrate were working and environment than other people go to for fun and for entertainment and it's. A lot of people, when they get started, have a hard time making that distinction between when is the fun in the entertainment and when is the work and the people that are successful know where to draw that line like the tour accountants that note, I got to get the check before economic cartel, you know, and even me. I think it's serious, but now hopefully have so little after thirty five years being out on what ideo if everything's perfect on the world's great out there were tours, a little family, really, and in thirty or forty cities for me, I see kids who've grown up, I see people would come down on a great day, I'm allowed to have a little fun, but I get my work done right and not on point. We're on the road twenty four hours and we're living with our co workers, there has to be relaxing and fun time and the and the the trick is figuring out when it's the right time like I pick those moments twice it's summer now rest time I'm going to bed at ten thirty, so I can still be first up in the morning to set the tone of the day. If I'm up with the bus drivers, I'm dealing with all that, you know, I'm not tour manager of warped or necessarily anymore on a day to day thing, but I'm there wanting to set the tone, getting the kids into the show, you'll see me at the front gate, you'll see they if everything's great it's a beautiful day, I can start having a little fun with friends. If it's a bad weather day or something, I know I've got to keep on point from the minute I wake up until they go to bed and that might still be an eighteen hour day so it's assessing the situation and responding appropriately so there's lots of other people on the road we've got all kinds of vendors and crew that is associate id so sound lights pyro video staging these are all companies that are hired separately to then come together and have the show that you see on stage and different companies suit different tours there's some companies that are very you know that with, you know, rat sound I grew up and worked with in the club's thirty five years ago when we grew together and they're still my sound company not only do they do the warp tour because they train a lot of great engineers out there they bring new people in there but they know how to work in that vessel of environment I work with other shows that working you know, that might be more in a performance art setting and they have a different type of a crew person they were different type of crew person that's gonna have a different attitude, a different approach to their job, nothing right or wrong about any of these companies but the right person to decide what is the right company to hire for the right situation so if you're starting out, you're going to have starting with the new tour, you'll have vendors submit bids and then you'll select which company you want to go with the designers are going toe designed the thing and then the techs are going to execute with the designer has designed sometimes the designers go on the road sometimes they hand it off to someone else and it just sort of you know, you're taking your first bit on your first fan you're trying to find a fifteen passenger van you're gonna have to price it out big bids get a trailer all the it just keeps growing and if you get the first job right, it starts you just adding more more things to get right so a lot of these jobs especially the tech jobs are very on your feet moving around all day I had a sound guy friend that had one of the count how many steps you take and it was an arena to her so I mean, within the same like half of an arena, he walked eleven miles no, I mean, I'm not sure we do twenty stay out of this it's twenty miles today yeah, and that s own outdoor festival you're definitely gonna walk a lot more so it's the type of job that you like, get some comfortable shoes and enjoy being on your feet yeah, it's everybody on tour has to eat so somebody's gotta put that might be at the beginning of a tour you're negotiating with a club to get a buyout were the word term buyout buyouts the ten dollars you get to eat you know it's rather than providing you before they you ten dollars and you go down the street but it's amazing how that economics of touring hasn't changed in nineteen, eighty five were getting ten dollars, and still I hear bands getting ten dollars or eight dollars you know funny who doesn't know, but then you move to the sense of catering would've been nice to get to a video with shelly on catering how she built a company up and realize that shall we will you know she caters the tour and she grew up with me and saw a need to feed punk rockers on the road and it's funny how when we started out there was like the worst fears the worst food on the world war two it wasn't horrible and how she saw I could do this better and she built a company off worked or was her entry level in the catering and now she does coachella, she does firefly, she does big high taylor swift, she just did katy perry tour on and she got that reputation but that that's a lot more way feed so many people for the value of a thousand people of that yeah it's a great example of seeing a need and finding a way to fulfill it and creating your own job she kind of did that, but if you want to be a chef and you want to see the country and rock in different sex there's just a job and you're around music, you know you're around, you know it's another it's another layer of jobs out there you know? If your line chef and you want like cooking, you could find a way out working a venue it's kind of it's kind of fun way toby around music and maybe you're not a tech person and you don't want to do that, but you want to be around the scene cooking's awesome! We also need ways to get around buses to get around trucks, to get her stuff around in and people to drive it. They're obviously more sitting john there's a whole nother level of drivers now because there's the tour bus drivers that drove us around they have to be a cdl and all the things they need that go with the tour bus they tend to go to a hotel room each day, then you've got these guys that are now driving these bandwagons wrote on the road there's like sixty or seventy of those on the road right now, but those don't have to be necessarily it's a different you just need a regular driver's license to do him you still have to be a responsible driver but you stay with the band you have a special loft up inside the bus and you stay at the venues you don't go to a hotel each night so you have to be that guy that can drive you love driving you might get to hang out a little bit more but you still don't know when it's time to crawl up in your rack and get some sleep so you can safely get the band down the road because nothing's worse and cnn dr everyone freaks out when they see the driver's hanging out too much you're probably going to sell t shirts or something you better be selling yeah I know how you're getting your gas money to get to the next place so somebody needs to design and produce and then sell that sometimes the merged company handles that but there's usually a person in the world you know there's so many there's the touring merchant on the road merchandise person there's also the back in person now with web stores if you're a web designer is something I want to be around music and maybe get some tickets once said if you like to go to shows working for these merch companies and building these web stores it's so important to be a three hundred sixty five day band selling merchandise you have to be able to have it. You never want to run out on the road. You never you want. You want to be able to service your fans of specialty items, you can see a lot of the stuff we're doing. I've caught up now I feel with war for offering special the items were doing things in keeping with, you know, on the fans. So that's a it's, a huge world merchandising there's people that have gone on to do amazing things in their lives with merchandisers well and we see a lot of the march managers turn into the tour managers a lot of times, it's their point of entry into being on tour, you start out selling merchandise and you show that you're responsible and next thing you know, you're too are managing that band, and being on a tour like the warped tour gives you the opportunity to meet other people and have your services, and that usually starts finding your local band and just say, also that the book I said it's a table while you guys are playing yeah, you know, I watch the table first, I'll cool watch the table. You're trustworthy, you didn't, you know, cool. Next thing you know what? Hey we've got three shows next week and jump in the fields what most people take a merchandise person before anyone else on the road with him thirty while they're on stage before tour manager before they get in the van with the merch guy first so you can imagine and then that merchandise becomes everything everything the band needs until they grow to appoint the packages we talked a little bit about they don't necessarily have to be six hundred dollars but they're adding some some sort of additional value that people are paying for and sometimes you have road staff to execute that are most jurors do it now because you know that was a big transition where tour managers that didn't understand that agents are going and the manager going we're doing these vips packages then they would kind of neglect the package at first and then the fans getting burned andi that kind of work and then most people look and go if we're going to do a v I p packages a super important we're getting paid extra to do this it was worth investing in someone's salary per week to bring them out on the road to manage this for us because you know how quickly to social media say that viper experience sucked quick justice quick is it it's awesome and you look at the person in between that's kind of usually managing that for you and then sponsorship we have a large number of people that work in the sponsorship world out on the water on the warp tour for work though it was started out way back when will do is was I made some of my first sponsorship deals and they would send people out with off shirts to the warp tour to represent their product to the to the brits took the fan and I go way to say good golf shirt people don't usually mix with us never have never will you know, maybe we'll put a golf shirt on if we go play golf it's when I took went golfing with matt from from a bench seven fold today and he is a sharp dressed like golfer but you know it's it's like the gulf shirt people so we start talking and saying, look, these people are educated week, you know, they have they have tattoos, they have these things if they could represent your brand better, you'd have better success connecting with the fan. So there's been a whole market that's opened up for people that go on tours that work here and I just was in new york last week and I went to the honda civic tour and I was walking through and three people that had left warped tour one day like literally left the work to revive with it we're out on that tour three days later working for them it's a whole circuit there's a lot of jobs out there that usually pay better than the touring bench so where the brand still pay a lot of these people pretty nicely and it can grow into you become a manager of that world and you're working and then on of a sudden you're being working for a brand agency because, you know, money, you know how to how to work with a music and that there really good jobs, they're really cool my highly recommended be careful of putting f you on your knuckles in a tattoo or something like that in your tattoos. Khun b tasteful bloody faces and melting heads might turned, you know, still are going to put that somewhere there, put it somewhere, put it on if you pass, you know, but it's like, you know it's kind of one of those things if you're going in that realm, if there's much more entry that you can get in there living the lifestyle that you want to live so it's not a bad spot, ok, so those are some of the people that are going on the tours in advance of the two or the production manager or whoever needs to do it for their own role is going to advance the show, so this is communicating what the tour requires and finding out what the promoter can provide so the production manager is going to do this for all the production related things the security manager our security director my do this for the security needs I do a settlement advance so that I communicate with the person that I'm going to be settling with and make real clear what my needs are and find out what they confide for me um so the production advanced to first of all the writer is a document that's attached to the contract that outlines all of the tours needs it's usually followed up with a phone call on the warped tour karin nicholson starts out with all right mate turn to page thirteen and then he proceeds to essentially read them every single word that are on the following pages but it make sure that things are how they need to be when he rolls up in the morning I didn't start just at the beginning it usually glad in terms of the start with the band guy one person has to take the responsible if you're in a band out there take the responsibility to call the promoter ahead of time find out about your park your vehicle what time you're expected to be there start being on time start treating yourself as a business a ban that will usually turn to the merch guy tour manager whoever's out with you the first time advance your show as well because if you advance your shows well, then you know everything there is no if you don't advance your show well, it could become a mess I mean literally carries out there in the morning and I mean by door time he set up he's already gone back into the office he set up because we're already set up he's already starting to advance he's working all these other shows and he's constantly going through stuff or changes as we go because I want to shit on a size of the warp tour that should come kind of change and he's got to keep re advancing re advancing and he does it and he knows that these guys have twenty other show is going on, and if he does a really thorough job with the work, we're going to get in there and it's going to be right where someone that doesn't advance it as well may show up and not have the forklifts they need or something. So this would be a great example later on in the day when we're talking about how to prioritize this is spending the time on planning will prevent having to put out fires on the day off so a smooth day is usually due to really good advance planning on some things that are going to be talked about are how many stagehands you need what time do you need them there where should they build the stage and put it in the venue? What are the hospitality requirements in the dressing room needs? So every possible little detail kind of gets covered in advance. Um, once the production manager has advanced with the promoter, rupp, the promoters, then going tio, advance with the venue or source whatever they need. Tio provide for the show locally.