Jake Round Interview
Hi jane I jake well over there, big guy, how are you so you can't see us but we can't you can do that. All right? So this jake around who I really like everyone's asking do you want to bring on and one of the unique you know, young people in this business that kind of respect about the way they're going and doing it from a true d I y direction is jake around who started pure noise records and you know, so so jake you know we're going to first talk let's talk about the package and we've now recorded the on we've mastered it as a record label owner how involved in the packaging of your artists material or are you uh one hundred percent and I think, uh, packaging does it just mean the physical form? And I think it also includes digital and the artwork that goes out onto the internet as well. And the way my deals work is we oh agreed to mutually approved the artwork and for the most part the artist sort of give us the direction or see the bands give us a direction that they want to go in a...
nd we seek out some artists whether they be graphic designers or illustrators toe help their idea come to life and what's the uh once we all agree on the cover art this usually where it starts way work on laying out the album and there's a lot of different ways you could do that for both cd lp digital booklet for itunes et cetera so so I'm jake you're very involved in and I've got two out two lp is that you wait you're over the office the other that you brought by you know and they're they're almost completely different product right here were you just being more generous one day with guys from the other ones you have no bragging rights which is very nice very good art but very nice pack simple packaging and then you have a band like gates and you have this thiss beautifully packaged double opening up, you know, artwork this is going to cost a lot more money than the no bragging rights packaging. Yeah, absolutely and it really has, you know nothing to do with playing favorites. No bragging rights is the first band I ever signed in the singer's been my best friend for ten years it's more about what the fan wants and no bragging rights and kids are very different bands and you can even notice on those two records that on the back there there's two different logo's we're kind of used a different logo set for the indie bands that we do for the the puppy and really try to give them their own vibe and so the reason why we did a double lp for gates was that that's what their fans want? They want really expensive packaging and one hundred eighty grand final and there's this there's like a foil stamp on the back and it z that's the most expensive in the most elaborate packaging I've ever done where no bragging rights is a more standard package and there they have there are better port and hardcore band a pit at their roots and punk rock kids have a different expectation and I'm not to say that everyone doesn't like a good record, but we really try to like later the packaging and format to what's going to help the band boast and you might also notice for no bragging rights we did a jewel case cd and and the reason why we did that is because they're about half the price to make and was cds being harder to sell today a lot of times kids, I'm sure kids recognizes now that a lot of my band's seller cds for five dollars on warped tour and what allows us to sell that ship is when we produce them in packaging that's less expensive and you know a lot of times for me the cd is especially when we're when we're developing a band when you're not talking about the band itself fifty thousand albums uh we're really trying to move physical units is a marketing tool for the band and as the pan kids bigger and does you know, sells more records and more merch. Not only does the label benefit but the band's benefits as well I think my label in particular uh one thing that I like to say I said said this before you're strong recently were you know I was talking to alan and alan said ok, we do this we do this cool thing for a violent I said, hey man, part of the benefit of being on a boot seek labor was you get boutique services and anything that there's nothing too small or too big we can do it so now and that's something that I do like about my label that's might be a little different than being somewhere else where there's a little there's a bureaucratic process or this or that at your nose if I say yes that's just it we do it so no board meetings don't part snowboard meetings jakes where the highway I like how you really taylor the packaging tio what the band's fans find important and how many of the gay you to give me the number of how many of the gates did you make of this the gate l I part of the thousands of peace with one thousand lps I mean, you know you were getting any breaks on volume you put a lot of money into the packaging and I spent almost as much money press and goes up is I did recording the album which is pretty wild unfortunately it's preordering awesome and and you know what the band was right and I really listen to the ban on this because I came back to him but how much it was going across and they're like no we really want to do this and you know they're the kind of guys I said on the record and they're like jake thank you so much this is like exactly what I dreamt it would be they also do their own artwork they're the most d I y control crazy kids ever met which is great and because they really have a vision for the abandoned and they were right and their fans are responding to it and it's funny because I might have a less expensive packaging for a different band or whatever it might be and most that may sell where more copies than we might have done it gets record but I think for me what's most important is putting out a cool product because right now the reason why packaging does matter is because kids needed and fans in general need an incentive to buy records like it's so easy teo you spotify or any of the streaming sites which quite frankly have nothing against I think music should be available everywhere easy to find but if they do in fact himself physical products you gotta get put stuff out there that people like and I think if you went to our web star right down so all the wild colored final we do when I started out I used to try to be chief but only do one color at this point it's like as wild as possible because after kids like they want some cool to look at if they're going to spend fifteen dollars on an lp to twenty dollars on an upbeat in my opinion it's gotta be cool thanks we're going toe then kind of segway that into distribution because already kind of started to touch on that the recordings are available in both physical and digital ways, so we kind of were already on the physical a little bit you know that's about thirty six percent of the total revenue so it's it's declining overall but it's not dead it seems like especially vinyl is alive and well, a final vital increased development which vinyl is impacting the any labels like pure noise and stuff because their scale of economics are still can work with in the majors, they can't they don't get it so a lot of you in the majors or something out some of their vinyl stuff to other people, but to someone like jake who can put two thousand these out and I think they sold through correct jake, you're pretty much the sold out gone right? Right well, we're about halfway so sold through and the record doesn't even come out to october twenty first so we're nice no shape there do you offer a I should know the answer to this before I asked you but a digital download if you buy a physical recording and some times record labels do that absolutely one hundred percent and uh you know, I'm actually considering expanding on that business a little bit but I don't want to give give my ideas away too much but uh one hundred percent way offer digital down that with every record every once in a while getting email from a kid like hey, you know, my record didn't have a download card in it and I just said it a link straight to my dropbox like I'm not I'm not policing this situation if if if kids say they bought the record, I want to make sure they have it download further ipod so they could listen in the car if they have a turntable they could listen on their terms table. I'm like I said it's two thousand fourteen and I think there's some old school people in the industry that are really scared of new technology and and I'd be lying to you if I told you that I wasn't worried about the future of recorded music but at the same time I think we're trying to, like embrace those technologies and see what happens it's kind of like the wild west right now I think the people that reflects the global rule surviving those are rigid will not do you think that free digital download is encouraging more people to buy the physical format? Oh absolutely especially and I think I don't want to single out a company like apple because you know right now if you look behind me in my office looks like an apple commercial I got I'm mac I'm on an ipad talking and uh giant apple screen but uh I think there's definitely contributing to the death of the cd the math click era have doesn't even have a cd drive so these are things to consider moving forward I think the cd is definitely going to die at some point I think it's probably got you know, as long as they're cd players and cars will have them but their question we're just signaling work because we're gonna have someone else who has a really good question for you absolutely that's the moral of the story is that the powers that be are pushing some of these formats out and so it's really important that mia's a label person be open bite it too the way technology is changing in a way that effects package it packaging and digital music so we have a question you know we have a question from amy rogers, who says a lot of bands are pre selling bundles with merchandise help ease digital download codes fan experience is do you think this is an effective way to sell physical copies? Yes, I do, but my opinion on its changed since I started when I first started the label, I remember having a conversation specifically with tim's, a hot skinny manages the story so far in a couple other guys, and we were chatting on a well, I think, you know, we're ancient people here five, so so tim and I are chatting and way we're talking about, you know, the way music was going, and he he made a comment about using music to entice kids tio bison t shirts and I really in my mind, and I had this argument with a web store guy europe recently, um, the fact of the matter is that music is still eighty percent of my income and so that's, what's most important and that's what we're focused on is does the merchandise, you know, the few merchandise designs we get her album, psycho help help us and the band's absolutely, but at the end of the day, aaron, like we are far more focused on the musical side of our business than we are on the t shirt side of my business and you know that there's kind of that's kind of the reason why I use a third party web store person because I got in this business to release albums and not necessarily a ship t shirts and that's not to downplay the importance of that, but music is really still where and I think bundles air cool because they give fans a chance to get a good deal. I like to think we pry stars really fairly, but again the focus is really comes down to the record love that on and we've got another one if you wantto you know we've got someone who says is a cz the owner of an independent record label with today's final trends lots of ours are requesting to release their music on vinyl. So what point should a smaller label consider pressing vinyl for an artist when the expense of manufacturing is so expensive and you feel that final is a trend that will last or as you kind of been talking about quickly transform into a new media format? Uh, let's, start with the first part of the question, which is about when you should start putting vinyl. I've been in business for five and a half years my first record I did not really song lina, but the second one I did it was a seven inch split for transit, a man overboard book dance that have been part of ah kevin's worked or have gone to be successful dance and that's kind of really what kicked off my vision for the label so for me I print final for almost everything like ninety five percent in fact, I can't even remember the last record I didn't do bottle occasionally if you have a very, very small if you're if you're starting your own label and you have a very small developing artist, it might not be financially sound decision to do that but to give you an idea as far as my d to see that's direct to customer sales go through the bureau's web store, I sell twice as much finals I do cd, so for me vinyl is in trickle to my business that's really cool and then the second part what do you think? How long is that trend last thing his cassettes or back people are all talking cassettes again right now yeah a friend of the couple cassettes there they're silly they're fun that's the nice thing about cassettes is that they're cheap, andi concluded down though it does you know with help ease I think there's something kind of magical about I'm looking over to my right here and I've got probably I don't know seven or eight hundred rupees in my collection just in my office and uh you know, I didn't grow up without peace when I was it's going to pop rock shows in the early nineties it was the city's only really, but I always remember fat records sold out piece and I didn't really know why and then I went to internet fat and that's when I really started tio experience the lt and there's just something about big artwork there's something about the big record and what's really to me the difference maker in analog music like final between this cd is that it's kind of a communal vibe you have to walk over to the record player and choose the song you have to choose the record you it's now you can't just flip through a bus plan it's it's something when you yeah started hanging out with your buddies in case someone put a record on and sometimes we'll just hang out and tricked years and take turns flipping the record and when it's your turn to flip it and it's gone through side b did you took a new record and we just go through it it's just like it's got a whole different dynamic to it and for that reason I don't see percy it dying if it was going to die would have died a long time ago what music is going to be like in ten years? I couldn't tell you it seems like people are definitely shifting towards streaming I think piracy will decrease as a result of streaming and increased technology but we're now so I mean I'm just I'm just hoping to be there I'm open to party so perfect segue way down a little bit of it under the ten by my bus you know what what appeals to me is you know you could hear the passion in his voice passion about his artist he's passionate about what he works on um it's not necessarily driven he's got a bottom line you've got to keep but you manage to keep that how many employees you have dick I hired my first employee about six months ago and then we have another guy starting on november first full time videographer guy s o well where two full time employees plus myself but when I say that I don't want to downplay the importance of the freelance people that are involved with your lives and how much stake do us I want to touch on that next kate you know you've done that it's going to get crowded in that bedroom there with two other guys? Well fortunately I moved in I moved into the executive office and they're out in the main room I just got the door shut on him but on and you know what, jake? You talk about outsourcing and I think that that freelancing and outsourcing has become such a big part of our companies as we keep our overheads low that there's a huge that jake was probably using some of the same people side when dummies using and maybe some of the people that rise they're using as freelance people. So talk a little bit about, you know, have the opportunities out there in the people that we're finding. Absolutely. And this is something really important for aspiring people to work in. The music business should here is that you don't necessarily have to go to work for some conglomerate or corporate place. You can start a little company like I did one of my publicist, her name's christina brainier. She does about half the label she started working for. Ah, big picture, I believe. Andi. Then she started her own boutique, a little pr company. Austin griswald goes about the other half of the label. He started it epitaph records and that went out on his own. And he does about half the bands have a freelance publicist in the u, k as well as somebody on retainer for men and europe as well. But the more of the stories, these bands artwork that these, these these very helpful people and intelligent people are working a lot of bands for me now, because the rosters that, you know, I counted before I got on here, we got twenty two. Listed bands on the website but it wasn't always that way there at one point there was three or four and when that was the case I couldn't afford to pay someone full time money teo work these pants but at the same time I didn't want a disservice the band's by not having someone to work their pr so you know it's totally scaleable thing and you know the reason why I'm able to hire full time people now is because it makes sense for the workload and artists load that were carrying and man fact makes sense for us said some put to hire full time p r person because we're almost spending full time money as it is so it's kind of like you just have to be aware of your workload and and what you can afford versus what you need which is ok work love what's your workload my workload is a little insane to be honest and it's my own fault we put out a lot of records this year by the time we have two left on the schedule or actually more than that we have two two and a two in october one of november one december so by the time we finished the year that will be twenty releases for us and for a label that started as a one man show and that will finish as a three man show it's it's been a little intense I probably work I don't know fifty to sixty hours a week but no one should feel sorry for me because I work whenever I feel like it I get to the office around you know I usually wake up to buy e mails in the morning around nine thirty try to go to the gym so I don't blow up and uh and then I go into the office around eleven and I'm usually there until nine or ten on dh that's my normal work day the problem with when you own your own company and I'm sure captain you can attest to this is that it doesn't stop on the weekends I mean I got very heated I'll be a good intention conversation with a band today about a music video and it's like it's saturday morning trying to eat some eggs and we're we're fighting over music video so it's uh uh you know it doesn't really stop but at the same time I tell people all the time like I didn't really choose self employment it shows me I was not the type of character that could handle being told what to do so you know I really put myself in this situation unfortunately I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else so subject you know there might be a lot of people out there you know it sounds like you've got a pretty good financial handle on the growth of your company right now you're bringing on employees but there's people out here there's a lot of people watching that are looking to get started I like the story of how you finance the company first how you finance company first and what was your greatest moment in time I remember you telling me right around that time so how'd you get you know you're pretty stoked on this story is pretty cool right well so how it started the company was in two thousand nine I'll give you the quick back stories that I started out as a high school teacher right after I graduated college I thought my whole life that's what I wanted to do and I didn't move into the bay area while I was working on my master's degree other than san francisco now the offices and berkeley and uh anyway I started working for a punk rock magazine and I got it in my head that I wanted to do my own thing and a lot of people don't know this but you know his records originally started as you know is entertainment and it was a booking agency and I thought I wanted to book bands and so because I've been booking my home dance d I y tours and I was like can have pretty good at this maybe I want to book bands well I do not want to look so that so that went away and we kind of just left it on the side and then I got this idea, some friends of mine and no bragging rights wanted to put out a record, and they were in a tough spot, and no one wanted to do it, and I thought the demos were great, and so I went to my mother, and my eye was never rich kid, a very middle class family on my father had passed away the year before, and I think my mom, just like I wanted to help me out, and I borrowed a little bit of money from my mom and it and buy a little bit of money. I mean, not even enough to put out a record for me now, but it takes about twenty grand or board to put out a record for riel uh, you know what? It was less than that, and I took that money and that's all I started with for the first three or four years, and I remember telling kevin just recently, I was, uh, I was working on work for working for rise record selling t shirts, and I've never sitting there in the sun, and I'm just like, I'm not going to stop doing this label or are like, my goal here is I want to have a punk rock band on the main stage of warped tour and have a band itself fifty thousand records and and this summer we had to but but last summer in two thousand thirteen, I'm bringing my bomb out of work too are my mom did day to day account so she knows exactly what's going on and it was real scary going into putting out that second story so far record and I had to borrow some more money from her and we had my mom's personal credit cards maxed out we were were riverboat gambling and obviously the record came out, you know, sixteen thousand copies the first weekend, you know, it all worked out, but we're at work turin and kevin it buck bumped the band up to the main stage that day and we watched the band on stage and my mom he leans over to me kind of whispers like the crowd's going wild and which is then there goes my mom, they stayed in her house and so they give a little shout out so anyway, we're walking out and my mom said and I said to my mom like, hey, you know, at least it worked out and she said to me like, you know what? It would know it would have been ok if it didn't like I just thought you deserved a chance and I'm really fortunate to have parents like that and to have people like kevin lyman and craig mack sennett rise record soon believed in me when you know what when no one else did it kind of gave me a shot and you know I'm very fortunate and paid your mom back I did I did tell him in the back that was the cool thing you know, I think you know, I keep asking way probably some questions out there from the audience and you know, I know we've run out of time and we have to get into those so when we try to focus on some of the people maybe you guys here have got because I'm just sitting there like I think I've been pretty good go because yeah, sleeping after lives here in the room yeah, you know you have the opportunity this is we've got it was funny somebody the child might I don't have the name here was just like we will wait paranoids records is only three people wow on this is something that is an awesome opportunity to talk to me so if you have any questions, feel free to grab a mic and there you go s o question but you didn't see what I told you first what's your name my name is justine petersen on my question is what what is it you are looking to do in the future? Are are you looking to sign more bands are but genres possibly are that's actually a great question you know, I would like I would like to put a punk rock records and tell on no longer putting out records, but I also I'm totally interested in different genres my remained very close friends accepted works that high road touring and he books a lot of indie rock bands like fox a gin and kate nash and lydia and he and I have flirted with maybe doing, you know, a sub in the indie rock label because I definitely love that stuff I'm a huge pop fan believe it or not, like I saw katy perry last friday and I'm like legitimate, gigantic fan but at the same time like I don't see the course of pure noise deviating too much I mean, I want to put out records in the all ages genre specifically the ones for for me, the ones that I like and it's really easy to get caught up in this in this business, especially in punk rack with what's cool and what's not cool and you know, I'm thirty one years old and I'm I think I'm past that and I'm at the point that if I like the record then it's cool enough for us to release and I think in the next year you're going to see us put out a female friend of pop and but you're also going to see us put out a new riding out record and so like and I really think that our label is cool because we can do both and I think I think way as the year goes on you'll see a pretty wide wide range of releases hunter who says he jake what's the most important thing you look for when considering signing a band or artist what traits are most important to you? Well, you know some of those trades have changed as the labels gotten you know a little bigger are slightly more successful but the number one I think is where it all starts is touring and uh in all ages music specifically and when I say all ages I say anything that could play the warp tour because obviously, you know, worked recovers it's huge ranger genres but it all started touring and I think if a band is is interested in being a part of a label they should have a van which is difficult like you got to figure that out and there's a financial part of being a band that that that falls on you and have a van and start plans of gigs and I mean there's more recent out resource is out there now than there ever has been a ce faras booking dio why and you just have to be diligent and play a lot of shows and I think um also invest invest in your own recording and have a demo that sounds good like don't don't rush in there to make something when you've only got five hundred bucks you know maybe wait a few months, save your money and get a recorded demo that that sounds good and and I think those are the two most important things haven't been record be willing to work hard and you put yourself in a position to succeed now obviously there's metrics out there like social networking and all that stuff swirling good, but the end of the day like I've signed a lot of bands that no one knew about knowing nothing just because I liked the record and they seem like they're ready to work hard any more from here in the room the way stand up with high dose I was just wondering when you are releasing a band with their album do you kind of just follow like a normal traditional method of like you do the single you have a music video to promote and get pre orders for the album and then have ah tour following that release or do you ever kind of change that format? Do you have a different method of doing it when you're releasing a new album? I mean, this is definitely something that we're actually talking we're planning on having a forecasting meeting for two thousand fifteen here pretty soon and, uh, you know, I definitely have a way that a pretty like what's the word I'm looking for, like the common knowledge sort of relate releasing an album, but I don't really necessarily think it has to be the same every time it really depends on the band, and if you're if you're a smaller band, I think it's pretty good, distinct, traditional formula where you're releasing a lot of content, an album announcement, a single, a music video, a stream there working press and press could be quite difficult in the religious community. There's just not a lot of publications outside of, you know, I had full of magazines so it can be challenging that respect, but obviously there are things that you can do, but then there's also large advance that we've seen tio, you know, really an incentives like song releases or live performance videos, I think that's capra cute, he did one last year where they shot a music video in real time live on, you can do interesting stuff like that when you have an audience, it just really depends on the pan. We haven't really talked about digital distribution yet, which is sixty four percent of the total global. So, jake, maybe you can talk a little bit about, um what your strategies are there, some of the different platforms available and how you use online distributors is a record label, um digital distribution is becoming more important obviously what not only a big such a big piece of the revenue pie but also with the increased competition that we're experiencing between companies like itunes, amazon, spotify beats, google play, et cetera, et cetera. My my distributor is called the orchard and they do a fantastic job on the digital side I will stay and there is a lot of marketing that goes into that, especially when it in terms of placement it and the way that works is that a lot of these companies have priority placement on their sites or formats, you know, for their new albums or albums that are doing well or, you know, artists you might also like side place since in the distributor helps us worked with each company on an individual basement basis to gain placements for artists with new albums and that's definitely part of it a cz well, in addition to that, spotify is just it's turning into an extremely important format, and we're now having artists go in and build playlists and share those playlist with their fans and talk a little bit about the songs within him and then there's the whole digital marketing side, which is the nice thing about digital music, and I think the reason why it's become so powerful is that you could get it instantly and myself I buy help piece I do but I also got a lot of records on itunes just because I can download about my phone and then I'm jamming it in my car on my way wherever I'm going, so because of that, we have to find ways to get to the fan and get them to the point of purchase and I think there's everything from, you know, website facebook advertising very put together social media campaigns um and stuff like that to get, you know, the consumer to the point of purchase online, jacobs says any of your artist, you know, an artist that I was hanging out with tell me that he had to get going to something because he's going to read his liner notes he's going to read his lyrics on a stream for spotify or you are just doing that yet we've talked a spot of flat out I don't think I've done that, they do have spotify does do a thing where they kind of play the song and then they have the band sort of read the read the liner notes and then talk about what the song means to them. I don't think I've had an artist do it we've had a few pitched some of everybody, every band is different, I have some bands that probably like would it be into talking about their lyrics so much? It really kind of depends on the personality of the band but yeah, it's definitely a marketing tool and I think it's important for a lot of beings toe have sort of that dialogue with their own it's, that unique thing ever, always coming there with this digital explosion, everyone still trying to figure out how to have that connection with their fans and that's what some of the things I've heard of artists our starting going and read their, you know, be their lyrics, you know, as a spoken word, almost along with it because you're not giving the line and just kind of more trump tie this digital world to the emotional world, you know, because we live in this world of clutter that the artists want to be able to do that and add a little value at a little value to what they're doing, things like that uh, I don't know, you know, you know, it's in jake is just this guy working works really hard he's got a great here ultimately, you know, you've got a great ear for music, I mean, you know, do you you see any trends in music that anyone should anyone out there that's getting like, what they're I know you don't give away your secrets and sounds, but you know what you want, it was really funny that you say that I had a very interesting phone call yesterday which you know if you want told me I was going to have ten years ago, I wouldn't have believed you had talked to joe maddon from good charlotte for about forty minutes and uh he don't a studio in hollywood that on engineer I like to use works out of and we were just chatting and we're talking about trends in music and him and his brother worked a bunch on the new five seconds of summer record and you know, it certainly seems that we're experiencing are second wave sort of pop punk or third way about yes because we had the ramones and queers and those bands and and then we had a uh you know, you found glory and blink one eighty two and you know, hopefully now we're gonna have the story so far wonder years and at five seconds to summer and I think hopefully we're trending a little bit back towards guitar music I would really like that obviously adm is massive, but I think I think music's very cyclical and we saw elektronik is very popular in the seventies and then you know then and they don't want came her bonnet, so for me personally I'm going to continue to kind of like and that's kind of why I strive to have a little bit of diversity on the roster even though it's sort of all things young punk rock we also, you know, we have some some bands that are on the n b side of that, the bands that are very much on the pop side of that, you know, you know, they're pop pumpkins, almost poppins and then some hardcore bands and metal bands and and, uh, you know, well, sure, and I really see is moving back towards the pop rock band, and I think you may see, you know, what's been, like, five seconds to some ready and what I think that five seconds of summer, a lot of people in traditional punk rock would have been like, you know, when you hear it, you know, this whole backlash to it, and any time that something like that happens, it usually benefits the history of where it came from, everyone and, you know, and I got home from summer and, you know, and I had said I saw five seconds to summer open for one direction two years ago, and I just watched that moment in time when girls and we're watching guys play guitar for the first time and they were wearing green day shirts and they're out there, and then, you know, there was this whole talk about them being on the cover of a p what was that? I go yeah, they're on the cover but then they people open that magazine and got turned on all these bands we worked with around warped tour what's wrong with that and those bands love that music and now you're right, the bands like you know simple plan and new found glory they're getting recognition to where that's what they listen to when they were really young that's why I say like bowling for soup always does good on warped tour because the average age of the kid that first listen to a mom warped or listening on radio disney and they're seeing him play him on work too and you know, nineteen, eighty five becomes like this recognition of that time when you're out with, you know, in the sandbox and it makes you feel good, but you know, you were talking the other day at all time lows album because by seconds of start summer was asking your favorite band is all time lows not working an album right now, but their albums are selling like there's a bump in that world because there's attention coming to it absolutely and and I think what a lot of people I mean, I know you you realize this but like, you know, bands in the nineties like rancid and penny wise and no effects would not have had the success they had had it not been for green and and that's this the same of the same thing trickles down all the way throughout alleges music like even a band like day to remember love him or hate him has been great for papa and I think they're done a really good job championing those bands to be perfectly honest and and I'm a cz label appreciate it I mean, we brought to use back a couple years ago and it was really great like when levi from this may I wants to be up on stage singing with bird because he learned from birth and bird can still kill it on stage and kill it and then you watch taking back sunday and they win. They win this society when when the ecosystems working well and that's what we worked on with work tour when it's working well it all helps each other absolutely I had gotten to this point where is to spread out? The demos were to spread out and about five years ago I go I got to bring this in and I have to be really careful how I book if you go into patch package booking what makes sense? It was just getting I was trying to appeal to too many people when I narrowed it back in and brought taking back sunday in the eu's with these bands that looked up to him, I was sudden they made a lot of sense they did get and had some of their best touring in many, many years right after worked her because a lot of young kids just saw that there are amazing they believe I got one more question about head of publishing then we'd love to move into talking about being an entrepreneur is from big beats. Jake, do you do your own music publishing or do you work with an established publisher? You know what? I was just having a conversation about that yesterday, so my record deals, as faras publishing goes, I do not on publishing for a single record I've ever released that that's not necessarily because I'm the most benevolent man to walk the earth it's just that I I feel like if I was going to take part of my band's publishing dollars that I should offer them a service um, we haven't really dug into it too far. My catalog isn't deep enough, but it's actually something I'm shopping around for right now, it's just for someone to rent my catalog on the master side and we're actually seeing a lot of independent publishers pop up grecula it's just launched a partnership with a camera but the gentleman's name but the name of the company I believe this mother, mother lode publishing and they're starting tio sort of cater to more independent artists but you know punk rock we don't see a lot of sinks I've had a few with video games and and stuff like that so it's a part of my business that I really really I plan to work on in the coming year can you kind of define for us what publishing is for the well publishing specifically is the actual written song now the way and publishing is so confusing I mean on the guy worked in this business for a good amount of time and I would say that I have sort of ignorant about it but that being said I could give you the layman's terms is so the publishing on a song is the actual riff that damned another done right and then there's the master which is the recording of done that and done so the way the deals could be structured a lot of different ways my deals the label owns the master which is very common generally speaking and the bands on the publishing so they wrote the song those air their songs they owner I own the recording of the song so let's say for example they just made a remake of the classic video game crazy taxi driver crazy taxi driver the people it's for europe guy and sega e mails me and he says they were interested in using a story so far song and state champs on for our for our mobile video keep your iphone and I say, ok, great, and then they talk about what their budget is and they pay what's called per sign, and they're going to pay you x amount of dollars on the publishing side and x amount of dollars on the master side, and both me and the artists have to sign off on, uh, that we're happy with the amount and how the songs getting used or doesn't get used. So ultimately the artist compete all everything I mean, I hear about big the artist's vetoing half a billion dollars sinks because they don't want their song used in a shampoo commercial and that's their prerogative. Wait for these sinks and, you know, we everybody being a couple bucks, they went on their way, but they could also be a great way to expose bands, which is what we were hoping we ask for a credit in the game, etcetera, but yeah, that's kind of kind of how it works, and the indie labels are paying much more attention to this because that's a revenue stream not only for their artists with themselves, if they can place this, you know example we had was we had I signed a band called gold a bordello, and they had a song called stop wearing purple and the label we were having a tough a tough year we had decided you know we're trying to something a radio we didn't really work but when they came in and yahoo wanted to you are you stop wearing purple as their theme song when they re launch that was a million dollar song deal okay? And we split the money and really kind of bailed side one dummy out the band was stoked that year you know, it failed us out of a rough year when we're albums were dropping off the clue cliff that we hadn't adjusted our business model yet I know for a fact vagrant records has a full time staff person whose job is to pitch six so definitely I want to say a huge thank you for joining us jake two things one you better send the r s v p and for that wedding invitation on the wall I know what's coming d'oh probably that they say that parking ticket okay you know right then there's some all press and voices up there yeah, they got there but you know they are sleepy on that wedding invitation I think it's doing pretty quick ears up you know you better send it really quick, jake, if you want to read something from the chat room we had sharell who said I just have to say this I have major respect for jake to work so much and still be so inspired and motivated, passionate about his work is amazing. He became a big inspiration for me just through the short time he talked in this workshop, so thank you for being a part of. I thought he'd be good for this, just because, you know, that thing, we look for our inspiration. I think some of these guys look at me, you know, as their mentor thing, I get inspiration off hanging out with jake and said, they're talking music right now and all the things he's doing it it's pretty cool for, you know, so I thought you'd be fun for you guys to meet. And, uh, if you didn't know him as well as I