The Old and New Music Landscape
We can talk a little about old model new models kind of how the business is evolving and it's changing so quickly you have to keep up and you have to stay current on there's ways to do that the way that we used to lead a listen to our music was basically on radio or you know a recorded way way that's how we kind of broke bands you you would get on the radio people would listen to top forty radio uh that was the majority of the way that we broke acts now we're digesting so much music it was about ten years ago you just say well you started liver ipods on shuffle uh musical taste ice here it in the influences of music I was watching bands and you could go like through six different musical influences in one song not highly recommended in my book too listening to bands sometimes that air overplaying that way but you know that's our lives were listening to music it's not offensive to be listening to you know something you know back then it was like if you didn't listen to punk rock it's pu...
nk rock now you could be listening to anything and everyone accepts that and that's what's really great our musical tastes harder to narrow down so that's where the major labels got in trouble because they used to depend on a certain sound being so big but we're digesting so many ways so well, you know there's a way to do this so you know it was you know, we used to record albums they're expensive to produce there's a big huge reason to go into the recording process the cost of albums were very expensive the whole process of recording was expensive I was also quite profitable for people who had recording studios you get people in your studios and there it was expensive processes you know it's expensive to disputed distribute music you know there was you know you would record an album the labour would have to get it out you put it in the distributor and go into the stores there was returns it was it was a really interesting it was interesting process and that's where bands always had a hard time reading their statements why did we never make any money on her albums even back when we're selling a lot of because there was all these expenses and things that took a forensic scientists and forensic accountants to actually go in and read music statements from them major labels I managed to ban lesson jake for a long time and we get it and it would every year we have more and more money based on paper we know that more money and we couldn't understand it uh you know, it was like, you know, that's how you know you get noticed by the label to be out that in our job a lot of people say I want to be an a and r person and I always never could figure out that a and r person how they were like hadn't expend when I was loading in all the bands, gear and everything they and our god come by and just seem like the guy was had a big lunch expense account for lunch and he took bands out the lunch and his job was to find bands and go out in the country in these in our guys would fly all over the country, they get a tip, there was a great band in this market and they would go out and try to discover that band before they got known by the rest of the world. Um, you know, that was a pretty cool job, you know? You got to fly out, you went to clubs, you want two shows, you you were trying to find this band before anyone else did, because if there was two of you that found him it want it would create a bidding war. Three it would get crazy for be like these guys, you know, so much money thrown at these bands to sign these labels, you don't really hear about those bidding wars there still certain ones but that's usually when you they know it's going to be more pop driven album pop thing, but we know that album sales are really gonna plateau at a certain amount these days the way that would what are you to record this album? They would get to go out and promote a single usually to try to break an album break a band the first exposure to a ban many times was you'd be driving down, you know, you turn on your radio and you hear a song for the first time you hear that song played on the radio, there was a whole system of ways that they would get things on radio we don't have to go into paola and all always the playful, you know, I used to get there their music played on the radio, the radio stations it was it was a world these guys would travel around the country, take care of the radio stations in certain ways and they would start spinning your records mass public you knew exactly where they're going. It's like media in general now, television every a thing you don't, you know, people are much more broad and their choices you see radio stations, you know, in l a it was like, if you got played on k rock, we're in seattle, so what was that? That was the end up here? The end was like, if you heard the song on the end, it was like oh man this is what I got to get into and then that's usual lifetimes your first exposure to that ban would be hearing it on radio first then you would go out on the road you know they would set up a promo tour first for you totally subsidized by the labels you know the labels were expecting you to get guarantees you go to the clubs maybe you're getting one hundred bucks a night two hundred bucks a night but there was this whole network of how you would go play you know, two things for the radio station you'd visit radio station you would go build and there was a process of trying to build your career through the club's taking the next level up to the theaters, arenas, amputee theaters we had you know, there was like a system almost sometimes bands could tour six, eight times they would they would incur an enormous amount of debt owed to the label as tour support while they were building them but those labels could look at you and say, ok, if we make this one break they're going to sell a million records at some point the economics of those that made it all makes sense that didn't make sense now you know, that doesn't make much sense now so this process was a lot of acts could build through that process now back then you had many independent local promoters working the shows, there was ways to do it. You would build the relationship with those promoters. That promoter knew he was probably taking a risk on your first show. It was always I'm investing in the future, and you hope that the relationship that you built with that band would go on throughout their career. Many of the guys who are getting out of the business right now are still around because they had those relationships with those bands you would book there for show. It was kind of a symbiotic relationship you knew with agent you're going to invest in this band's career. It was tour history. You would have history with the band, and as they grow, they would stay loyal to you. Unfortunately seen that kind of shattered to in some ways, their loyalty thing sometimes doesn't go as far as it used to. There used to be that thing where, you know, you could go back to probably the first person who brought rolling stones and ninety nails. They stuck with those promoters for a long time because they invested in their career. Example was a band that I worked early on in my career with green day green. It was a ban that kenny model, you know, but the whole oakland eastbay scene. Bratty little kids punk rock band kind of got probably you know I think was probably no effects of those bands probably turned me on first to those guys green day would go out on tour and they would work and and you would build up a relationship with the band and you know, back then it was that relationship of how do you keep them from destroying the dressing room or doing the least amount of damage to the dressing room and they would go out and start working with these local promoters and the first half of the first round around for green day they really you know they weren't on the radio they weren't getting there but they were been that went out and toured and you knew there live show was fantastic they you know there was a score that love them they saw what was going on they then you know, kind of plateau doubt at a certain level uh career kind of dipped a little bit and at one point green day said they would never do two things in life the warp tour and watched titanic so so the day that they played the warp tour I taped a copy of the titanic to the bus now they've done both of them but it was a great way to reconnect with their fans and audience and then this is a prime right when duke he was coming I'm going to come out and there's a lot of plans that hey let's go reconnect with these kids so that connection was there they hit it on radio all right that they start getting played on radio out to a larger mainstream but they had such a good core fan base and I always say like, you have to be careful before you take your punk to the pop so many bands that that bridge that's a tricky time for an artist career when you're underground artist playing for a certain crowd and all of a sudden you're going to go okay, we're gonna go bigger we're gonna go to a mass appeal, you know, what's the term we all use sellout the band sellout no, the band's his p more people paid attention to their music they didn't sell out, you know, if they paid more attention to music that avenue that for them was radio and the cross path one and what was that when the arrow so that was, you know, going on nineteen ninety six to two thousand eleven uh, that band just really kind of you know, that was kind of how how things were working, you know, right around then we saw and I was managing a band called lesson jake right at this period spanning this ban I met the guys who started napster sean and showing they were awesome dudes, I thought they were awesome way have arguments in a parking lot about digitally recorded distribution of music. It was that I got a tent once that a napster misting tent that mike wanted to go tear it down. He thought this was horrible for the industry, and I was like, I just it's the evolution of the industry, the music industry threw up all the road blocks to really take control of digitally distributed music. It was it was a time when they put their head in the sand. They said we could fight this, we can fight the kids and I found you can't fight you guys like when you're ready to make change, you could make change. You really can't special when you're unified in it. We gave you on ly one avenue and that was to steal music the first way you guys were exchanging music was stealing. We didn't give you a platform to put any value on it. You're using the technology in your hands and then all of a sudden, it's just it was it was it's happening and way didn't the music industry ignored it? And isn't it crazy that why did itunes come up with the way that to monetize music again? Now we took it away from the sixteen, ninety nine album and things like that cd to the dollar a track but it was technology that actually it was a technology company that did this there was a moment I went in with vinny from lesson jake just no regrets story and we want I want I went in and made the mistake of telling the president of capitol records at the time I went up to this big office and I said I want to give away a song on napster we have an album coming out any bang the table and he says we will never allow the digital distribution of music I turn around me and then you walk I go dude, he missed the boat it's over that was my everyone had that moment in time when we saw that the world was changing and it was going toe evolved and it moved on and that was really for and I think anyone that's still around really is embraced that change so and meantime this was all going on at this point we had changes the touring industry going on. We had all these local and regional promoters that we're kind of buying and surviving on their own and there was a guy named fred silverman that came in with a company called sfx which eventually became live nation and he thought that he could roll up all these promoters and start buying up the territory's these guys were independent gamblers, personalities, really personalities. I mean, some of the early promoters were bigger than life than the artist, you know? And those are big life artists and these guys were running there are operations independently he's like, well, if we start, I'll buy your company I can start forming bigger buying power with the agents at one point I think they thought they could put the agents out of business with this whole novel and he went in and he would start rolling up on buying up. The local promoters appear youse guys used to have like, concerts. You know, live nation now become jeff tressler runs up here, but he could probably go through the incarnation of how his career went by the purchases and now he's part of live nation of parrots live nation northwest uh, you know, the promoters, the amputee theaters were owned independently by the promoters, so that became a big network and all the bands there was plenty of bands to fill up those amputee theaters, so it was a model that they felt was successful. It's what has become live nation now live nation was the first of that a g now buys a people that point it was clear channel I got was involved and they own all the radio stations and everyone thought they could start controlling the artist's career much more and have much more influence through it out during that period, one of the big mistakes they forgot was about developing artists in the club's about working and developing artists. Uh, they ignored all those things. So what opened up a world of new independent promoters that started working with bands in the clubs? You would hope to think that those promoters were kind of going to be the new crap that, you know, legacy with those bands, but they would hit a threshold where they would lose those bands to some of the bigger promoters. But there's a world of smaller promoters out there, uh, then they start buying full national tours because he had consolidated all these promoters. Now he could go in and say, we're going to buy thirty five gates of the green day tour and he's going by thirty five dates, so they negotiate with a national talent buyer that comes up with a fee that's going to be charged across the board. It pissed off the local guys sometimes because local guys, though they're not worth this much in my market. But I gotta pay that much, because now I'm part of a national tour so that's constant tug a war still going on to this day of local control, national control which whenever there's chaos breeds competition so I've seen a lot of younger really hip cool, dynamic promoters who I used to be working with many years ago it underlying in the market you know, for every big promoter like live nation there's cool and like denver their soda jerks and there's people there doing all these things that are promoting shows at a level in they find a venue or two and find out how frustration gets to them because they had a threshold with her bands where they don't have access to the venues and things and and that's what I'm seeing right now ban start marketing themselves you know it was you know for a moment there that an are that guy that just flew around you travel all around go to boise, wyoming listen to bands all over you not boise wyoming, boise idaho and wyoming the next day I was up I was flying around trying to you know, find that ban thing called myspace was formed I like to say that you know, warped tour has been part of brands and band's myspace couldn't afford a table at warp tour when they started they came to me and I let him have a free table it worked to her on myspace for a moment there but a and r guy stopped traveling and they just started booking you on how many friends you have on myspace um all that ban has so many friends even though we all learned that you could manipulate friends, you could change the numbers really quickly bands were getting side based on friends on my space we've learned and then that was usually a disaster. Anyone that gifted headed inordinate now on a friend's on something usually you could tell that they were bought friends, you know you can find these things, but they didn't know at this point we still were the major labels were trying to figure out new technology. There was this chaos I hate this person has so many friends let's go sign him to a deal having been seen him play live there getting banned signing bands that was a disastrous appointment business. We've now pulled it back. Everyone with analytics kind of figure out what's really what's manipulated I can tell on my twitter account when everyone said blast kevin lyman that we should be on the warp tour because all eight people send me a note a three minute span we've learned how what is an organic thing and what is a contrived thing or most of us have and that's been a big part of our growth in the business now so there's a world of people want to get the music business that might be ableto it's anall it analytics, you may love music but there's so many companies and I was back east and talking all these brand and our anall analyzing music and what it really stands for it's not like you may not have to especially you're going in the sponsorship world the brands are very big know what's going on they look closely what's going on it's not just based on a number they can dig deep to see if that family that person's fans are engaged um a pop artist fan is not necessarily going be it is engaged as a post hardcore fan might be engaged because they're part of a lifestyle pop is still that single driven your only was popular is your favorite your new single the major labels now are more focused on getting that hit get it on radios cell a bunch of singles they saw a ton of singles they license the music very quickly the movies they trying to monetize is quickly but the brands are backing out of that saying way to say we're looking for an artist that we can invest in their future with an invest in their culture with so it's not just sheer numbers so there's a there's a whole world of jobs out there that people analyzing you know, music, investment and and what to get involved with, which is how we weigh spread music now there's so many ways we're digesting our music and getting involved early on when you're out there is a young band it's how do I get my music out there and how and it's sad you know it's the way we're doing it you know there's there's systems like tune core that are still so you know useful for you guys it can get you on the itunes it can get you on the pad it gets you on all these musical services and you could start monetizing your music in some way as at a young age at a young age of an artist and then doesn't they not yearly young age but where you're at it um you know it's become affordable studio most of the large studios the big giant recording studios many of them have shut down many remember closed because people were kids aren't spending a quarter million dollars on a record on a recording you can record you know it's become affordable I hear great stuff recorded in from people's bedrooms here crappy stuff too but you know it's you know it's you know you have accessible to record music at a better value so if you're a young engineer or a young person that's in there find your local band and start working with them if you want to become a recording engineer you it's accessible through software you get on your computer start working on those type of things you know try to make the best recording of your favorite ban and so they can present themselves better out into the world. Major labels are looking for the next big kit that's really what it is it's it's, single driven. Uh, you know, we had an artist last year on down warped tour. Ah, that was fantastic, you know? And I see them as someone that could grow into a cultural band. They happen to be on a major label. They're being viewed as a single band right now, but I said play worked because it was a discussion whether whether they would be on the tour with us there, some people were saying they shouldn't do what could I go? There's no better place for you because the warp tour is a culture and they're going to support you through good times and bad times. What happens if that single doesn't hit at radio? They're very lucky. It's hitting at radio it's all over the radio can't drive down the street right now without the hear the song, but now they have to back that up with the next single, so they become in that system of having to go single, single, single. Not so much looking at the album sales right now but they've got to keep producing that single but I like those kids so I'm going to be like, ok, you know what if it doesn't work out you can always come back and play in the parking lots with us because you're you know you're part of our culture so it's finding that balance um let's focus on long term career and development we've talked about you know just touched on that uh they want that single and if you don't hit right away sometimes you get one single chance that single doesn't hit the first time they're not going to work a second single they're not tour supporting you the way they're doing they're not going to send you the count around the country for five times to latch on to that fan base they may may help you out once so you have the country once if it doesn't connect on to the next um looking for artists and you know a substantial following on the internet less risky for them you know it's this kind of thing like you know and now that house I'll change so much how it went from my space to facebook now it's youtube producing cheap videos getting yourself out there I love you know youtube I love watching the band I love watching a band play live I can't go out as much as I used to it's just not physically make sense my life's in a different space but I sure can learn a lot from watching things online and it's important to get a nice you know if you can set up in your garage you've got three or four friends with, you know go pros and some stuff you can throw around a pretty compelling live video for people to view you and see you budgets are cut to go look at bans traveling around the country to go watch bands for labels is hard so we are learning more through the use of technology to do our research on bands one we can see if it's really too I love a live video because that live video can give me it's not the hot sweat of the show that you want that you but I've been in enough hot sweat my life to kind of see what's going on you know but produce yourself a nice live recording if you can live recorded video it's a great way to present yourself as a band I love getting links when you present yourself to someone sent him the link make it very clean what you want to see it's not lazy on my part it's just the reality that you know people want to see that and it's available to you um now it's reversed you get first get noticed by your fans sometimes the fans you know you guys are so connected the kids that I work with so much you want to let people know when something tugs at your heartstrings or something's important something strikes your passion your reaches great now that greets used to be like on man I got this really cool cassette or this lp someone and you sit in a room and you play it for your six friends and maybe they wouldn't loan that one thing to them and they would you know and it would grow that way now you guys are so you guys control the world in a sense of what becomes popular and what's not popular you guys are the tastemakers well, you said that in and in a broad scale and it's weird how these analytical people and everything we do with our phones and everything they know exactly what we like to do they know everything we're doing and they're zeroing in on who are the people that are kind of guiding certain things so it's it's very it comes from the fans a lot of times will be the first ones you know and then I gotta dig into it to make sure it's not a contrite like I've got one band I'm trying to figure out because I pretty much heard all the bands I think I want to play on this one band that's showing up so far I haven't figure out maybe they're getting smarter on how to manipulate the numbers or maybe this is actually an organic thing I need to really understand so you know it's fun that way and there's a lot of access to you guys on gun control good good content right now sometimes they got the content so horrible that you guys like that disturbing new music you know on the internet is easy now you can sign up you know pretty quickly to get your music out there through these services you know that are out there artist break themselves artists do the groundwork I always like to say you want to tell your own story whether you're going to go to work in the music business or if you're a band if you're a band that could tell your own story so if you're out there you know touring and you've got your playing backyard party shows start documenting your story whether it's through video through notes through quotes still you know people are like we could feel it you build your story because if you're building your story and you're hoping to be on a label like side one dummy which I'm partners with or with you know fearless hopeless is this that story usually gets brought to them halfway developed developing an artist from scratch gets to be very hard but the band that's become locally great regionally great buzzing real conversations online you're building your story so then when bob from fearless reaches out and goes hey, I want to talk to you guys he's already done his research you've done a little bit of your story your way up the songs you listen to it and the person that's built some of that story helps with the groundwork for the next part chapter of that story I think that's a really great time especially an indie music right now where some of the budgets are tighter and things but if you could because there's so many good bands you guys it's cool crazy how many good bands there are the level of talent that you guys have based on the your access to all this music and influences is so far a level and I just judge about the bands the other day we were sitting there and I was sitting with skip from golden voice and bob from fearless and of course it's like and we're from fifteen years old from riverside, calif they rip and then like this next band gets happening like great of another a bunch of fifty were fourteen years old, you know it's like and they're playing at a caliber the caliber is so high you guys in the bar level of music is so high and discount the music business is dead the people they're saying that it was dead was the guys who set a new that they could take one single and work it through the system that they had to make it big now that you know it's so good but that the pars high the bar is really high so start telling your own story the artist breaks themselves first to a person's throws in level smart social media building a connection with your fans you'll never you know and it's a challenge for me sometimes because you know I'm not a big on the v I p experience thing and I believe that that's handshake you have with an artist from your booth too when you're signing their first thing is still the first impression of a ban to their fans and that fan will stick with you a lot longer if you take time to do it and I've got some managers and things were like well we should monetize that and I'm going how do you put a value on a true interaction with a person you know once you pay for that it's like a different type of relationship sit in your booth sign things that will take your career you don't know how long it's the basics we got all this technology but the basics are back we'll talk about it then more we could have talked about that and marketing you eliminate a lot of stuff in between and you use your social media but it still comes down to the flyer sometimes handed to you in front of the show I mean, I don't have any of you guys might remember realized you feel there's more flyers people handing you stuff outside of a show now because it's still that like connection and it really is cool in a band hands it to you and say, hey, we're playing here here you still the psychological connection we can't give up the humanity of music and what we were at so it's still building that connection with fans, it's doing for your fans what you told him you're going to do, you know? Yeah, it's, it's, it's just it's goes that's the basics so we're in a time of all this change, but sometimes you just have to go back to the basics to for your career. We've got artists, though, that are plateau owing at a certain level. It's hard to break pass that club level now with as much touring is going on and as many acts and as much traffic on the road money being tight for certain people, you know, for most people they can all they have to pick and choose what shows they're going tio so our artists are tending to plateau. At a certain level when I was first started book the warp tour I had a lot of bands that were playing the hollywood palladium which is a three thousand seat venue in los angeles they could play that on their own with a few other bands then it got to a point where I maybe had bands that were playing the wiltern on the main stage about two thousand seat venue oh now I tend to book a lot of bands that air playing in thousand and less venues hoping to get that next level uh how we're getting past that next level is what I touched on earlier when you see these great package is going out bring me the horizon and data remember seeing the sirens pierced the veil you see the better packages and that's how these guys were figuring out how to get to that foreign five thousand seat venue probably couldn't do it on their own but if they could share the fans taking a little step back you've got to take a step back to move forward and everything in life take a step back to move forward that's how that's how I think we're tackling this plateau ng at a certain level um and it's hard because you know sometimes bands like oh man I can you know got managers saying we could make more money but then the day I think the bands are taking it more in control you know, I've heard, you know, this, nick next all time low tour, I don't know if it's announced I probably shouldn't say what it was, but the package is going to be really awesome because I know they want to go up to the next level, and they were really smart and who they're packaging with, you know, it's going to be a really cool tour on dh, then you could take risks now in tours because you guys are listening to so much music. I thought a risky and I thought was kind of cool was yellow card, and memphis may fire pretty diverse music there. The tour is doing really well, though, because they're going to get things those artists are giving their fans credit for each other, they're going to respect each other, like live bands, you throw him, you're in the middle of that makes for a kind of a kind of an interesting evening, and they're able to go out there doing a nice it's, doing good business out on the road, where, instead of packaging with three pop punk bands or three, you know, you know, seemed I don't want to hate the crime scene with the scene what's the scene, but you know, whatever that is, you know, but it was a good packaging. Smart packaging as an artist is really important, and I can go back to your first tour, where I'm big and you know, poughkeepsie and your big over in albany and your big in rochester find those bands that you could open for and have fun with and let them come open for you while you headline in your hometown drive over their town on a weekend, open for them and build your radius out that way. Um, it's a pretty cool, um and it's and it's howto howto find things. One of the things that a lot of artists are doing and festivals, you know, warped tour is a nice, safe play for artists because they're not dependent on the ticket sales. I can't depend on anyone band to sell the tickets on warped tour, so it's a good place for people to come to play because most of these bands are playing thousand cedars, and then that kind of thing. I'm able to deliver an average thirteen thousand people a day for people to come and see them. So that's, how you replenish your you know, you replenish your fan base by exposing people who are listening to so many different sounds who might not come and see you, but all of a sudden you can cope. You're going to pick up fans and play a tour like a warped tour or something or mayhem festival or things like that exposing yourself to new festival festival things the touring festival thing as well as the standalone festivals are a big part of our business right now in a more in the rock world and see, you know, hipster, I guess, and then I can use that term, but it's like that they've got their whole set of festivals where there's they want toe all play the coachella's and bond a ruse and a c els and voodoo fest, and you've got bumbershoot and what's the one out in seattle they will not. They do that to a day went out in the gorge, sask watch, but they're going from festival vessel, but sometimes they're forgetting to connect the cities in between so they may be playing. These festivals get one crowd, but they don't know how to tour and do forty cities anymore. So, you know, it's it's a different place, different thing for artists um, long lasting careers, you know less than jake? Well, scott never ages that's what I say, you know, if you want to be playing forever being a scott band, you know, there's really big fish, little big deal the kids, his cable get old it's funny you know those pans air is almost as old as bad religion and bad religion is like me playing you're looking at your dad on stage it's cool like that religion rips to their audience but a young kid it's a little freaky but lesson jake it's on stage and they could be your dad and you're also many looks greg chris looks awesome you know but scott never ages so if you want to play forever for kids, join the scott van you may not make a cz many much money because they're going nine have you stuffed in that van all the time but you know it zeno scott never ages and less than jake's been smart about their career, they tour around the world I used to manage them it was it will talk about my management career at some point today and why I'm not a manager anymore as well that's why I became one but listen takes those fans that did smart the tour all the time they're doing different things they're open to new ideas when I was, you know, managing and we got him the opening spot on the bon jovi tour you know when you're to stop and you could do anything to be sure you're expected to be goofy, you know and have fun, you know, they're up on stage playing for bon jovi, you know, it was awesome all right, so here's kind of the landscape of the promoting world in in the united states right now almost the world to this is pretty much a good thing you've got live nation who through all these mergers and acquisitions has become the largest concert promoter in the world. I don't even know what hit the number I'd miss it by so many how many concerts they're doing per year uh they buy a lot of national tours. One of my tours is a joint venture with them of the mayhem festival uh, warped tour is not still like a very whoever it feel in the marketplace works for the show they do a lot of the shows bye bye sheer size and they've absent, elated and absorbed a lot of the people that I used to work with when they were independent promoters and and they own basically live nation's got venues, they've got amputee theaters, the house of blues clubs are our live nation property around the world. Now there were able to book bands on around the world tours so they could say we're going to work you and every market very large then you have a g who a g owns a lot of state, a lot of arenas so it's interesting with live nation may promote the show, but age is making the rent on the building you know um competition heating up between the two a lot a lot of deals going down and mergers unsuccessful festivals on dh then you have a lot of independent promoters you have a lot of a lot of young people starting to do shows I'm meeting him now I'm because I'm so please they're working with the band's I'm talking to the guys who I used to work with sometimes I go I want to bring this guy has a new partner just on bring him in on the show to help meal on the local level because he knows he's bans he's working with ceos and he's working with, you know, bring the horizon of mice unmanned while the bands I work with penn suit he understands those that market better and he could handle the street team in the promotion that way I'm getting a little like stop talking so much so then we have, you know we want to talk about you know, someone like katy perry you know, katy perry interestingly, you know, was an artist that bounced around on those major lucian multiple record deals she had multiple record deals then I was doing a movie soundtrack and I heard a song of hers that I was looking for a cheap song cheap song katy perry that's funny that and I bought a song from her for five hundred dollars and I heard that we heard kissed a girl I wasn't out yet. None of this was out there, but I heard the song I bought luge tonight was a cover. She did a now outfield song. Then I should play more music and they played me. You're so gay. Ana, I go, oh, man she's got to be on the warped tour and this is before all that katy perry is one of those people that has, I think, really making that crossover artist too she she's she's going she's going to keep going she's growing into who she is she put out not only great singles, she puts on a great tour. Everyone that I know has been on the show have been able to go to this show it's awesome everyone's going she's putting on a great live show she's awesomely she's also a philanthropist, she's giving back to hurricane and community I don't know there's a lot of artists and you don't think she touts it so much but she she she understands where she came from because she came from nothing and anyone who kind of bash is can I get people bashing katy perry go are you kidding me? That's, where I'll go to blows like still like you know I will defend her career and what she's done with it more than you know, I don't see her anymore really accepted some charity dinners or something I'm at but that's a person I think that is going to be someone that's going around with us for a long time you know she's going to be a person that keeps evolving as an artist and does what she's doing that's the last slide on that so we're just kind of talked the evolution of the music space you know we have some questions on I know it's kind of threw a lot out there and is continually evolving you've got to keep up all the time you have to keep up all the time scary how much ugo user says what are some effective ways for visual artists to get involved in the music community and collaborate with musicians as you're looking at this kind of new way we'll talk about pakistan will come back to that perfect okay we're going nothing on that what's something that you see kind of smaller bands in their infancy doing that kind of like helped them get notice or help them kind of stick out among the wash of fans that write a good song recorded the best you possibly can and then deliver that song I mean it never changes put the first song is the one that guys like us are going to listen to a times you know I was watching bands play live and they don't play you know, making a strong first impression still never ends. Build your local seemed be patient the day of just jumping in a van and I think it's a way to do it, but you never gonna break if you just driving around playing shows for two people three build a plan, you have to build a business plan a za band, start figuring out if you want to be together for the next ten or twelve years. One thing I'm finding is a lot of these bands, they cycle through people all the time because they're not figuring out you have to understand each other. Do you want to be in this together? Are we doing this while we're in school for fun, which is great? I love, you know, being there's a there's, a awesomeness about that? Are we going to build this together? And we're going to be patient in this is going to take us ten and twelve year career, but it really comes down to, you know, building your package and making, you know, start building at local, so we'll start taking notice. Then when you do get around people like us, you want to give us your best impression first.