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Personal Branding for Creative Professionals

Lesson 16 of 20

Networking with Guest Susan RoAne

Dorie Clark

Personal Branding for Creative Professionals

Dorie Clark

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Lesson Info

16. Networking with Guest Susan RoAne

Lesson Info

Networking with Guest Susan RoAne

I'm very excited at this point to begin the process of of introducing susan rohan, who is going to be coming up very shortly. She is a master in the networking feel really a legend s o as was mentioned, she is the author of the million plus bestselling howto work a room I was, you know, talking with a friend of mine and, uh and she said, oh, my gosh, you know, my my sorority gave this everyone in college, I'm like, wow, really on, you know, literally you hear from people they're business people there, people in all kinds of organizations, and they've read this book and are, you know, have been learning for twenty five years from it. And so this year twenty fourteen, the twenty fifth anniversary updated edition of the book just came out, so we're really lucky because susan was willing to come in and talk about some of the principles that she has looks like you actually you're waving a copy here and this is this is a white, this is more than a book, you know? I'm actually like doing exer...

cises over here with it, I can't believe that there's so much to know about working a room and really mastering that networking, this is an amazing, amazing privilege that we have here, I can't believe this book has sold over a million copies. I had heard about this book and I'd forgotten about it. And then when I saw the outline for this course, I ordered this book. So I think this is my weekend. That's not yeah. Alright. It's. Pretty exciting. Wol. Well, susan's coming on. Quick question. That's resonating around this actually talk around this too. But d m asked what advice would you give to introverts? Yes, yes. So, bea, you know, I'm an introvert to actually. And so one one little tip thing that'll mention I have an article that I wrote for the harvard business review, which is actually one of my most popular articles that I ever did for them called personal branding for introvert. So if you want to google that you confined it's up on my website dori clark dot com and it has some tips. But as an introvert, I totally feel this. I was I had I had dinner with susan and john last night. John corcoran is going in our next session. We were all power wowing about howto have, you know how to create an amazing experience for you viewers here of creative live, but after that, you know, later in the evening I had a friend who invited me out because you know his startup was having a party and there were free tacos and you know, it sounded all very good but I was I base I texted him I'm like I'm having an introvert moment I cannot do this I'm so sorry and I had to go home and huddle in a ball thea's I'm definitely someone where I love doing this this is awesome but if I have to do this all the time I will die you know I very much need to recover afterwards and so if you are an introvert you know here's here's some some things that I do personally and then you know, there's more tips in the hbr article but you know, one thing is I think that it's it's really good and this applies to all element of personal branding really is how how can you figure out where your comfort zone lies? I mean, I think it's worth trying everything you know try try you know, different pieces, but if you really hate something, don't do it don't waste your time on it. And so I used to early in my career because I thought it was a thing that I had to dio I would go to these enormous networking breakfast and things like that and you'd just you'd sit at a table with total strangers will be this weird, stilted conversation and it just felt awful I hate it and you pay like fifty five bucks for some breakfast that wasn't even good and so I just stopped and I'm like you know what? I'm not doing it at all anymore and so instead I go to places where I either no already a number of people so it's not going to feel weird for me or you know I don't do that kind of networking event it on much better with small groups so I like to host dinner parties I'll bring you know friends together and try to meet people on my turf I feel a lot more comfortable that way I also write and you know so I publish all these blog's you know for forbes and entrepreneur and whatever and and an h p r and that actually allows people to come to me which is a lot easier than me going to them and you know it's it's just you have to find your own way of doing it but you can succeed it networking as an introvert you just have to do things that they feel natural and feel good to you and so anyway susan is you know we're talking about her book she's also in addition about a keynote speaker so she travels around the world giving talks about these ideas she's very active on social media and and you were mentioning earlier the hashtag discussion about this is dori clark live that's right? And you know if people want to send me a message I'm at dorie clarke on twitter you're at susan rohan the spelling's right up there and and so anyway I would like tio welcome my awesome special friend susan ruin apple in the stage let's give her a hand you get you get this one is this yeah and I'm wearing the same outfit how interesting fantastic look at that that's great! He has no other clothes I know what life on the road is a keynote speaker is pretty tough susan I well it is and you learn to pack very lightly yes exactly I know my mother always says as long as you have an atm card and your medicine you could buy anything else and that's why we should all listen to our mothers cause they say some really great things that is so true exactly but susan, I wanted teo to start out. This is just kind of fun but would you and this is in the new book right? The new edition of how to work a room. But would you tell people the story about how we connected? Because it's kind of a good networking story it is it's such a great story because it's so unlikely it's like I have friends ago, I'd never meet anyone on twitter I go while you're not doing it right so I followed dan pink and I see this tweet from dan pink and did thanks to a popular business author for any very well now wonderful speaker was brilliant guy, and he re tweeted this treat from this woman, dori clark, complimenting his book, which we all do, and so I retweeted it because I'm a fan of dan's and I know him and then because dori is great on social networking, I get a tweet from dori saying thank you, and I noticed she's a writer. So I we start a conversation and she's working on a book and I think I wrote, let me know when it's coming out, what can I do to help you know and that's how it started? It was all giving alright, well, yeah, but that that's certainly it I guess I don't know that I do that, but that is what I do, and but we just started in tweets, and then we did something we moved to email and then we started because, you know, you can tell I'm not one hundred forty four characters all the time. By the time I was writing the book, we already thought that we were really good friends we had never met, never even had a phone conversation, and then dorrie was coming to town and we went to brunch but we already felt like we knew each other from I like to say a thousand years because then everyone thinks I'm younger than I am but a thousand years and then we had dinner then again with your other guest who's coming on and so really it started with social media but we moved it to social in person right? So this is a really critical point that you raise susan because you know you've you've also in one of your other books is called face to face and I think a lot of people now are you know, maybe curious about howto how to do this because you know, we're building so many relationships online but talk to me a little bit about that in terms of connecting with someone online versus in person or you know, how do you blend those things how do you think about that? Well, the first thing is ok, you still have to have a knowledge of the etiquette of whichever online room I wrote that and howto work room because everyone was different you know google plus has it said it get twitter has it? And I think if we please read what we're going to row send before we hit send and think twice about it and I think that that be careful what you say be careful how you say it and just think to yourself what I'd like this toe live on forever it would be something I'd like my grandmother to see or that judge in court to see yeah, and I think we forget that so but I also think it's about being appropriate being nice, being enthused for someone else's information if I see something that someone's written or done, I don't say well oh, gosh, that's in my territory ago families brava, bravo! So I think starting following some really smart people like dorrie clark um and whether it's on twitter, google I think that's the ideas is connect with your friends, connect with people that you respect and admire and like to know and I'm going to say this as a former teacher in still currently an educator, we all want to be educated, and I think the online rooms are way to be educated cause people share links to things I might not know I might not have read and that's the way learning and I think when you're learning, you always stay fresh yeah that's, it's such a good point, susan, I want it, I want to get it, you know, kind of a fundamental thing here because, ah lot of people have concerns about networking and even, you know, sometimes when people hear the word, it freaks them out because they think that it's it's going to be a very fake kind of transactional activity what do you what do you say that those folks who have apprehensions about the entire process okay, first of all I know people I've heard this for a whole lot of years oh, I don't like networking it's it's the world is networking ifyou've ever fixed anyone up? You're a networker you have recommended a restaurant a hairdresser you're that's what we now call networking but I'm going to give you the word that a client of mine who hired me said we had a word for networking on the farm in michigan. Really? What was thea grew cultural terms I asked him and here's his answer helping if you think of it is I'm helping you you're helping me it's the barn raisings of yesteryear now here's what I would say because I'm originally from chicago and I'll say it in that way the people that are using people are the users if you're there thinking I need some help but I've helped other people then you know that's kind of the way the world works yeah don't think of it is networking because then that makes it work think of it is just being part of the plan it think of it as being a person who's part of a community yeah you give you receive, you help you and I think to me that makes it that makes it easier to do but when we go into an event I wrote howto work a room one of my friends said to me one of my friends from chicago said you gave the room the book the wrong title oh my god, what title should I have given it and he actually looked at me and said you should have called it how to make nice in a room because really it's about being nice to people yeah going over talking to people I just heard a story for my brother on the way over here how he met his best friend he went to a college party in his dorm and he saw a guy literally glued to the wall on my brother sent him are you okay? The whole can I help you? And the guy said no my brother took him to his room got him settled well, he and the other roommate they've been friends forty years that I said I were you were a kid and you notice someone that didn't look well and you help them see he didn't know that it would make him ah friend that forty years later he'd be at a big party in santa fe yeah, you have to think long term but I think it's about being nice to people yeah and that's what networking is and it's okay to ask for a favor? Yeah but it's not okay if you never do favors for other people yeah I think that's that's so true and susan one of the one of the stories that you shared with me over dinner last night which which I think is great I hope you don't mind if I share it but but you know so susan recently gave a google talk so if you guys wanna want to google this you can you can look it up she gave a great talk but the way that she got to do this google talk is that so there was a young man who had a previous speaking engagement he couldn't make it he was you know is university student couldn't make the talk so you know send her messages oh susan, I'm so sorry I can't make the talk I really wish that I could you're so amazing would you be my mentor so we could refuse it's kind of a big ask but right but susan says yes, I'll be your mentor and s o susan helps out this guy and makes all these introduce introductions for him introduces him to these kind of big wigs they stay friends over the years the guy then apparently he worked at google he's like a former google employee now and so then he helped susan get the google talk because she agreed to mentor him which I think is a pretty powerful demonstration of the principles that you talk about it but here's the other thing you know, sometimes we do something now we don't think of in the future, but I'd like people to understand that networking is not just in the moment it's your building equity and you're you have to think long term and I'm going to give one tip from really for my book how to create your own luck what I found in the people I studied is they said yes even if they wanted to say no and because they said yes they were in the right place they had iris we peed they showed up, they went to the meeting, the conference, the mixer and something wonderful happened because they were there but it is daunting and I heard you say this walking into a room full of people you don't know is daunting and I'd like to say this tow our audience that's watching live stream and our audience here according to research about ninety percent of america that else self identify as shy so when you walk into that room oh my goodness everyone feels the same way that's number one and number two. Now that you've heard me, you could be a little bit more comfortable and you can go over to that person that looks like they're alone and uncomfortable and extend to them your hospitality yes to become to become a host to become a host, that's what? I heard that from dr adel shi li I read it and success magazine in nineteen eighty five, and I always quote around that because I didn't make it up and you always attribute because that's, what a savvy networker does, they don't take credit for what they didn't do, but she came up with it. I thought I could be the host everywhere and that's what I suggest, it's called that's called this be nice to people that's so true, so I bet there's probably a lot of comments coming in online. I'd love to hear what questions those folks have certainly are you've broken the chat rooms, I love that. So, uh, who wants to know on networking? How quickly? How quickly do we need to follow up at and now? After a networking meeting, I often meet a bunch of people at the time and it's hard to follow up in a deeper way or in a timely manner. Also, how long after meeting is too late to really use that contact or to follow up? Okay, I ain't a one thing I would say is within two to three days, send a little email sent an invitation toe linked in, I think when you've met someone and, you know, there's a connection, uh, something that says hey, I really enjoyed meeting you and our talk on two to three days that would be it the question of how late is it? Two fellow I'd say if you've met someone it's never too late but do it now do it now because when you find that you might need to go back to them, you'll feel more uncomfortable when you feel that you've met someone that there is a connection stay in touch with them a long term so I think that would be it um did I answer both parts of the question? It seems that way ok great and I forced has an interesting one in my own practice I try not to hand out business cards I find that getting the card from the person I'm talking to has a psychological effect that forces the card giver them to anticipate the follow up response from may I guess is there any basis to support this in your experience? Oh you want the unvarnished susan row and yes okay I have heard that I only collect cards I don't give my card out stop it that's what I would say you have a card it's an exchange that's um that I've heard people advise it I think that's manipulative card games if you're going to do that, go to vegas and go play poker I mean that's what I I think it's about they're going to anticipate well maybe they haven't heard from you but maybe they have something to offer you you didn't give them a card how foolish I just want to jump in with one thought to on that susan cause I I I think that that makes a lot of sense and I think that in our next segment with john cork when we're going to be talking a lot about connecting with mentors and powerful people and so you know, one one sort of corollary is that if you're if you're dealing with someone who really is kind of you know a celebrity so to speak it's it's in those situations you want teo offer your card in case they'd like to get in touch but if you're let's say your meeting angelina jolie it's fairly presumptuous to say well angelina jolie can I have your card and you know so so if you want to be cool you know don't demand somebody else's card but be willing to give your card and hopefully as we're gonna be talking about make yourself interesting and compelling enough so that angelina jolie says oh my goodness yes I would love to email you dori here here's my card so tomorrow had actually a question first and then we'll go to a dead and then I'd love to go back to the to the chat rooms they're uh I was just wondering if you have an advice to people who is really shy to ask this favor back because a couple years ago I found myself in a place where I was shy to ask my own parents are afraid where which is really really killing yeah so how would you you know it here's the other thing that's their job to do favors for you so you know that I said that it's very hard asking and you know and I don't think we can underestimate how difficult that is but there's a way to say I haven't idea and I want to run it by you because I do need your help when you say to people I need your help but not say it in a pompous or whatever weight I think you people listen because I believe this most of us are geared to help other people it's part of the milk of human kindness but if we're demanding that's a different story but let your parents know because if your parents think you need help and they don't know it or they're not asked them they're waiting to say should I offer I don't want insult my chop my wonderful daughter so that yeah it's an important point and that you had a question yeah so whether or not I feel like an actual networking experience goes well like I was just a make up artist convention I got all these cars and I felt like it went well but they I put them in a little rubber band and stack with the priority ones on top and then I proceeded to do absolutely nothing with them and then it's like a month later so I really feel like the follow up is what I like that's what it's all about and that's where people fall short and even if I have a great connection with someone I give them my card the likelihood of getting a follow up from them I feel like is really small and so for myself with my own dropping the ball with follow up part of it is disorganization. So I wonder if you have any tips in terms of just being organized in the other part is just an unconscious resistance that is sort of maybe it's gone it's been longer though every day's or maybe it's like so if you have anything to offer for either that unconscious resistance to follow up that stops us from doing it even when we know it's a really good connection or just the being organized about it I'm gonna give you two things the ability to work a room mingle socializes one skill I wrote one book on that savvy networking a totally separate book a savvy networking is all about the follow up you could be great at the follow up and still find walking into a room full of party a conference daunting you could be great at the conference and have zero follow up and I did write that would pretty much make you what they call I don't mean you in general a one night stand, so what we want to do isn't it to have both skills together? I would do this with the people even though it's been a month just say I'm so embarrassed be kind of humorous in an email just I can't imagine I think what happened is that the rubber band that I weren't wrapped around your card obscured your name and I forgot it was so nice to me be conversational and I know a lot of people go I well, because of twitter it's one hundred forty letters don't save nanoseconds of those special words that we can say that are those thank you, please, I'm sorry upside to, uh, give a little something because then you'll put your personality and they'll want to respond and you know here's they say good things come to those who wait here's the susan row inversion good things come to those who initiate, so don't worry that it's been a month or six months just do it here's the other thing now that we off phone city of cameras, I put a camera up of us with the beefeater guy at the sir francis drake already on facebook take a picture of people that you meet and you you're talking to and then one of the things that's I like to do is say one and make sure you got the picture we look fabulous you look fabulous et cetera because then there's a visual on it it's reminder for them too but if we are never in touch with people, then we don't have a network and the two things were born into a network we went to school with the network we live next door to a network we now call it a network before we used to just call them neighbours and hairdressers it's true and you actually have another technique, susan, which I think is a really good one, which is that if you are hanging out with somebody who knows a friend of yours you'll take a picture with with that person and then send it back to the third friend and saying like, oh, we miss you and people seem to really love that but only do it after I put on lipstick. No, but here here here's the thing but I want to say this about dori this is another networking technique I learned from dorie when she's meeting with someone and you'll meet john later she invited me to join the two of them for dinner, so we became like a threesome we both live here literally not not not that way, you know, but like hanging out and then john and I have gone to some events together so it's, what extend the network bring people in be inclusive and if I can give you one tip when you're in a room and because everyone always says, how do I get into a group if everyone's already in a group here's what you do, you stand on the periphery of a very animated dynamic group don't pick the ones that look like they've got bunions because they're so hard to talk tio and when someone looks your way, you step in and you continue the conversation. But the savvy networker, the mingling maven something else I dread marked what they do when they see someone in the periphery of our group, they step back, they reset the circle and what they've done is they've included the excluded person and you know, while we're all trying to get the influencers and the important people I want to say from the susan row and perspective and this sounds like my grandmother, you never know the person that you might think may not be the influence or they're not dressed for success because they are our one that person may have relatives, neighbours you just don't know, so I'm going to be the polly ann and say in any room some people are really important we know that by their title but we must be nice and respectful and friendly to everyone because you never know but that person who steps back and includes us oh my goodness they have taken that awful feeling away so that's the how to get into a group I call that breaking and entering but of a different kind yes I think that's so great and I just want to add to that point I have ah friend named robbie samuels who you guys you met yesterday from the slide show because he started the group socializing for justice and I'm actually profiling him in my next book which I'm writing and it's coming out next year and robbie has a technique really interesting he's given a lot of thought to the questions of networking and gives workshops on it he is a concept that he calls bagels versus chris hans yes after your own heart right? And uh it's not about what you served it you're networking events instead the idea is that a closed circle is like a bagel and you know there's all these people and then there's a hole in it and in the middle you know where where people are talking but it's very hard to break into a bagel and so if you want teo become inclusive if you want to create a good environment in you know whatever group you're hosting or be inclusive as a participant in the event you want to be more like a cristante where it's open and so other people can stream in and to make sure that you have that attitude in that orientation. And in fact, on my on my website story, clark dot com I did a podcast interview with robbie, which is up on the website, and you can also get it on itunes as well if you're interested in the concept well, and it to add to that because I, of course, have always said to people, do not if you come into an event with someone I prefer going solo infect its and june's fitness magazine going solo, because when you come with someone to an event or go with someone to an event, you often will talk to each other and I say never stand face to face stand side by side, because that makes you approachable. So while a lot of people talk about what can I do to approach people, I go try being approachable and here's. The two things make sure you're smiling and make sure you have eye contact, because that makes it easy for someone they'll think you're smiling at them, how interesting and engaging is that, but when you're nervous and shy. I think a lot of people think they're smiling, so I say put that smile on your face point a smartphone away no one's gonna approach you if you look like you're working and that's, what people are saying is that people are now they used to just look over your shoulder to see who else is in the room now they're looking down and do do you interrupt him to say excuse me? I know you're texting someone important your order for your afternoon meal so put that away because it's smart phones should not be treated with dumb behavior that's right? What else are we hearing online? There's a lot of great conversation and you're being quoted here and you can also quote and share your comments on social media use that hashtag dori clark live but the quote here for marissa susan said it's not okay to do favours for other people and I totally agree, but what do you do if you constantly experience that I love meeting other people in connecting them authentically authentically recommending then their businesses to others because I believe in them in their business but it's often not reciprocated okay, so so I think I think what the questioner meant was it's not ok to not return favors that I have to say, I didn't say that this is all the favors you favor, right here, actually, and interestingly enough and secrets of seven networking I talked about what do you putting in the favor bank? Because I said, it's a bank, you know, there's, debits and credits, et cetera. Some people don't reciprocate, they it's not in their dna. So here's that person that you know can help you. This is where you go to them, it's. Not that they don't want to let where we presume me. They don't want to go to that person and say, you know, this is what I used to do when I was a teacher. You're so good at this, so use that little voice and go that you are so well known in the industry. Susan roanne, adoree clark, you are, you know, the gurus of everything. Really? You think we won't return a favor after that? I don't give up. Acknowledge what someone does well, and then it's not being, uh so it's it's really being acknowledging what someone does? Well, ask them back. They don't know. You need the favor if you don't tell them, does that help? Yes. Sage advice and sorry about the missus. Misspeaking that's. Okay, game is a chance to I have a comment on the wasn't trade by that business card comment and then the discussion also and it would saying, you know, I know when I get a business card we're dealing with a lot of creative professionals also in creative live business card is often a talking point, you know when somebody gives you an amazing business card and you look at it if especially for an interview I would think you know, you look at it and there is some business cosseted crazy things like they turned into chairs for that you know, we'll get those ones that have all the different I think barbara, you had that right where your business card has a range of different photographs on the back so you can choose which photograph to give someone like it could be like that like an experience you know, pick a card, any card I like chris taunting of the eagle that has to present this is I don't know where the cream cheese comes in, but I know there's somewhere that you know, I'm glad you said that because being in this tech area of san francisco there are people that I know I haven't had a business card in eight years the business card has not died and people are even being more creative on their business card so here's what we need to do and I guess I wrote about it it's even twenty five years ago in the first edition when someone gives you a business card don't take it, put it in a pocket let's borrow from the japanese who honor business cards and look at a person's business card. It'll give us something to talk about remark on it and to remember names look at the card, look at the design, look at the person's face and say their name that's how we help ourselves remember names? Yeah, that's it important whose appetites are being sparked here saying that they're one person is more of a scone. There is a common same and that is at what point? Um at what point is it appropriate? And this is going be a tricky one, but to ask someone to mentor you, you know, that was so interesting because I wrote many years ago for the san francisco examiner the way to nakata mentors say, would you be my mentor? Because it reminded me of would you be my bell in time? And you want to say no, but how this gentleman did this was he wrote me the nicest email. Sometimes mentoring happens organically and sometimes you might not want to say, would you be my mentor? But I'd so appreciate mentoring what I wrote, I think the idea of a mentor or sponsors someone's gonna open every door for thirty years for your life isn't there what we need is moms and I call that mentors of the moment what you need, what you need for one thing, what I need is an author is a mentor is different than what I need is a professional keynote speakers a mentor or what I might need in please help me I don't know what to do with my smartphone it just went crazy on me because that mentor might be ten and help me with the computer things, so we need the moms but I think you have to have a relationship yeah, and there has to be so conversation and relationships are built with conversation and with connection and tweets in emails and face to face, but I don't think you can just ask someone that you really don't know they have to give them a reason tow want to do that does that make sense? We're going to be talking more about mentorship actually in the next segment when we're talking about connecting with mentors and powerful people. So for those of you that are interested in that definitely tune in because he's got some some great stuff there there's an interesting one here someone asks about whether there are common mistakes that women make and also could you address the issues of being hit on? No one ever says what can I say but much mike um this certainly has been an issue for a long time and we need to constantly remember this is business and we need to behave and dress in a businesslike fashion on the other hand, you know, I want to sing a of course of matchmaker matchmaker you know, we're out there this is how people meet but I think it's about in this is such a murky word because we don't know it's about being appropriate men in to be appropriate women need to be appropriate but it's the start when you see someone there's an interesting conversation what do you do if you're hit on I would excuse myself I I think that's the thing it will excuse me and I would just move away I would not how dare you do that I wouldn't do a big dust up but if someone says something inappropriate it's okay to go not say much just give them that my sixth grade teacher I read just to let them know that it's not ok because if we let if we say nothing we get silent approval but when someone's hitting on you and you don't want to be hit on yeah and guys in gail's both make these mistakes no, I think that's really true and in fact I was interviewed by fortune magazine about this topic about you know is it networking or is it a date and it really really can be kind of confusing and and so one one point that I made which I think may be useful in preventing some of the problems from the beginning is you know, if if you're meeting somebody at a a you know, cocktail reception and they see something a little off color you're right, you could just move move over something it's a little tricky is if it's a co worker or someone you really do want to build more of a relationship with so I mean yes, you would like to get to know them mawr but maybe not in that way one one policy that I suggest to people is don't accept meetings after work it is really dangerous if somebody says, don't you wanna have dinner don't have a drink because those air very dady activities you could say I would love to get together with you why don't we meet tomorrow for breakfast and then it's really clear because you know if if things take a weird turn you could just be like will I should be getting toe work, but it sends a very professional message as opposed to drinks which you know, they may have some different ideas about how the evening ends up right and you know, because when I was married someone said, well, can we get together for dinner and I remember saying oh, that wouldn't work. My husband. I have dinner every night together, but I do think the other thing is dress appropriately and thiss may sound terrible, but when someone says something to you that's a little off rather than make a scene you khun treated as if they're kidding all that's. So funny, you know, and you're you know, then you're actually give them a compliment causes, but you're not putting them right in an uncomfortable situation. Oh, you have such a great sense of humor. Yeah. That's a good tip. I love it. So we probably have time for one more question. Who's. Susan. So possibly we could have a conversation around. How some of these in person networking techniques can take the way to the online networking. Oh, well, like when you go to any event, really, we have to work a room you have to meet, mingle, connect. But the follow up is online, so, oh, you have a twitter cow. I'd like to follow you. I mean that's, one of the I fell you on twitter. We link in. I read what you write on lee. Did I like it? Oh, this is you got a new job. I write the comment. Congratulations. Brava for women. Bravo for men, you know, little things that you can stay connected. I do the same on facebook. I know people that use facebook, other linked in so you can take it and you should take it online and even an email because it's a little more personal here's the other thing, please, as much as you think you're funny and I think I'm a riot be really careful about what you think is funny. Writing in a public message on someone's, facebook and linkedin fate I had someone who is my dear friend for many years, and he wants something he thought was funny, and I called him and said, I'm so sorry I had to delete it because I can't have people seeing that between us. I know, but I don't know other people's somebody. I definitely want to remind all of you out there that this is an amazing book, a cz we've come teo understand there's so much that comes into working a room. So if you're on line, which I'm sure you are, that now you're watching this, maybe you wanna open up another browser and add this book to your collection thank you so so much for all of your wisdom and tips yeah susan how can how can people stay in touch with you? One of the best ways if they're interested in learning more okay, let me give you my website it's www dot susan roanne s use a n r o and e dot com but my email is susan at susan roanne dot com and you know what if you have some especially if you have a speaking engagement how about this gold school here's a phone number I answer it for one five now that's an amazing thing whoa for one five, four, six one, three, nine one five well love it that's great. Susan, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, so we'll we'll send susan off to go have exciting, exciting snacks because creative live does feed us well and we'll continue the conversation. So the yeah, all kinds of good things we learned from susan and so I wanted to talk a little bit with you guys now, I mean, one of the points that susan may that was really important was about keeping up with your contacts. A question on debt had was, you know, you can meet a lot of people at an event, a conference, whatever, but if you don't follow up with them it's it's? Not really a network, it's kind of, you know, a one time hit. It doesn't turn into anything. We've got to be more strategic about how we do it. And so I actually wanted to tell you. Ah, story. You know, I learned a lot, you know, one of the great things for me about the writing that I do for forbes and harvard business review in places like that is getting to interview people in learn their ideas and best practices, which sometimes I adopt for myself. And so this gentleman here, his name is michael katz, and he lives in massachusetts, and he is a consultant for for entrepreneurs and small business owners. Anyway, he was telling me about how he actually works, teo to keep in touch with people. He has a company called blue penguin. And he had this tiered system that I thought was really fantastic. So in his case, and this is something that, you know, maybe you guys might consider so for his whole list, you know, all the people he wants to keep in touch with, you know, he has a very broad way that he touches people. He has an email newsletter. Yesterday we were talking about the importance of that because you know, unlike facebook, which could change its policies at any time, make it hard to communicate with people because you never know if someone gives you permission to email them. You have that asset it's really powerful? Michael has, ah, bi weekly email every two weeks, but, you know, yours might be different might be monthly or bimonthly or whatever, but having a consistent way to get in touch with all of your contacts is a really useful baseline things so that's number one, number two beyond that, michael actually has a list of people who are more selective contacts, people that he thinks it's important to keep in touch with. And so he actually makes a point of writing about three, emails a day to this list of people. It's maybe, you know, three hundred people, something like that, and so he'll pick three and every day he'll just write them a short personal email. So, you know, it's coming from him, you know, it's, not a robot, and he'll, you know, he'll ask about things since the last time you talked to you. Oh, you were launching a new product. How did it go? Oh, how is your daughter's volleyball game? You know, whatever it is, but these are people that he's identified that are actually pretty significant, and that he wants to keep in better touch with next. He has an important list of about one hundred people, and I was when he told me that a super honored because apparently I'm on it because these these hundred people get greeting cards from him on a regular basis, you know, actual hand had written greeting cards and so that's that's kind of a cool thing because it's like, oh, it's in the mail, nobody does that anymore. And it's a special way teo to keep in touch, and then the last last year is of because he has decided to make a vow much like my friend, who I was mentioning yesterday worked at the research hospital and said she would have lunch with a different person every week is part of her networking strategy. Michael has that variation of that same strategy where he says once a week, he's going to have a coffee date and, you know, he just kind of has this lot, and he says, yeah, I'm going to make a point to do that either toe deep in a relationship with someone that I, you know, want to get to know better or meet someone totally different, and in fact, that was how we met because a mutual friend of ours elissa cone who's an executive coach that I interviewed in my book reinventing you she said oh, you should really meet michael and so I said okay great yeah he seems interesting so we set up this coffee date and I was I turned out to be michael's coffee date of the week and it worked out well because I interviewed him for forbes and you know, that made him happy and it was good so but really I think we need to start thinking about what? What are the tears of contacts who are the people who are most important to us because if we don't do that, we actually risk just, you know, not not through malice but just to kind of, you know, benign neglect we missed communicating with the people that we really want to learn from we really want to connect with and that could be really helpful to our professional development and growth. So thinking through your a b and c list of contacts in michael's case, you know, a, b, c and d or whatever is useful so whether it's, you know an email newsletter with it, everybody gets just so you know, they remember who you are personal emails, you know, so that they get a loving touch I mean, I'll just mention right before this creative live session I sent out on email blast to my list of folks you know with a notice about this event because I thought oh, you know people might be interested in watching the live stream that might be fun for them and so I sent out this notice and as a result of that and by the way people are interested in my email list you can subscribe on my home page story clark dot com but when people got it I you know almost immediately I got back an email from a guy from a std which is the ah so american society for training and development which you know it's a big kind of human resource is organisations great? You know, powerful big group and he's a story this is so interesting would you write an article for us on personal branding and you know they have, you know, huge readership I didn't have to do anything to get that it came to me because this guy was reminded of me from the email newsletter and said oh that's cool he made the connection but I made it possible by sending it out so thinking through ways of being in touch with our best contacts is really powerful and so one thing that I would love to dio first of all at home audience at home slash at work on you know if you can write in I would be curious what your thoughts are have you kind of created these tiered level of your contacts and how do you stay in touch with your best contacts? How do you make sure that people who really matter to you aren't falling through the cracks? Do you have regular ways of staying in touch because this something that you know is a challenge for a lot of people and we'd love to hear your ideas and strategies and then what I'd love to do here in the home audience are the studio I guess this is my home for the time being, but you know, the in studio audience is if I could bring one of you guys up, I would love tio tio here your strategies about how you keep in touch so tomorrow I think you've gotten less face time than most people would you mind coming up and sharing with me? You can come right up here I think I'm supposed to sit in this one that's that's the word on the street yeah, so you know, let's just have a have a little chitchat here. So how how do you manage your contacts and how do you keep in touch with people personally? I'm not really good at that many of us, you have to get better yeah, I'm really looking forward teo do it uh on the more consistent bank basis and I'm actually looking for, um technical support, more female museum in this letter I really want to start that and you know, I just wanna, um, point the importance of hand written cars because that's the thing that I discovered when I moved here yes, back in russia I have to say, uh pasta's not that great. Yes, nobody sends cards or letter there's no, little better no one will get them. Yeah it's such a struggle to get a parcel from a russian post. Never do that ok point taken so for me it's really, really exciting when I get something in the mail and I know americans air used to that much more, but I really you excited about starting that teo communicating with people that I feel important. So for now, unfortunately, I only communicate through e mails and facebook. Yeah, and I connect with my friends back in russia through social media that looks kind of like facebook but just rush in and like, yeah, that makes sense. Well, it's great, because, you know, hand written cards might actually turn out to be your your secret sauce, maybe that's something you can really, you know, kind of double down on and, uh and get good results from so that's that's pretty exciting, I like that idea and yeah, in terms of email newsletters, I mean there's there's a lot of really great things that make it easy I've been using constant contact for years there's a weber there's you know a bunch of different options male chimp I think they're all popular services that aren't very expensive but make it very simple and intuitive for you to be able to get your message out to people so that's that's really cool and how about in person meetings like when do you have a strategy for connecting with new people? Uh you know, um I always tried to ask them questions and I think sometimes I and, uh like talking about them too much and was holding my own information I would like to get better on that t right uh but yeah, I thing that you mostly have to be really excited about uh their personality nods like I try not teo put too much of myself out there right right what I'm doing? Yeah. All right, well, it's good. Maybe maybe this can be your sort of homework assignment moving forward is is to think more about howto how to share your personality and share your gifts. Yeah, because we're americans we love disclosure. We love that stuff well, hopefully yeah, yeah, you know it's good with sketch anyway tomorrow thank you very much really appreciate claps for her, so what are we hearing from the from the online crowd about about their experiences with us well we actually just have a question for you and let me feel the conversation in a different direction but the question is distorting ever feel like people are intimidated by her because of her background and the organization's she's been affiliated with how do you recommend handling it? I have this problem and I never know howto handle it I tend to hide my background or dumb myself down in order to build report but I'm selling myself short doing this right? Right ok, so implicit in this question is that I'm awesome and they're awesome so thank you whoever you are are people in to sit by your amazing way go thank you yes so the short answer is well, you know, I guess that there really intimidated never know it right because they'd all be like, cowering in a corner and I never meat but no, I don't you know, I don't really think people are that intimidated I mean, I think the question is like where how do you wear your credentials right there's sort of there sort of like a joke, right? Okay here's the joke if you ask someone where they went to college and they say boston, you know that they went to harvard because they're scared of saying they went to harvard and then looking like a jerk but guess what if you want if you don't say thatyou went to harvard, you look like more of a jerk because it's like oh you'd be so intimidated I went to harvard that you like can't take it so you know it's like it becomes very recursive very quickly so anyway, like, you know I so here's so part of it's like a reality check too because I lived in boston for seventeen years I went to harvard let me tell you, every person in boston went to harvard no one cares it is the least impressive thing in the world because everyone's like, oh, well mi tio, what ups eso you just e think that the thing is that you have to be really genuinely interested in the other person and, you know, I mean anything that you've done any credentials if if people are intimidated by you that's their thing that's totally their thing and you can't control their thing, but all you can control is that you understand that whatever credential you have, you know what somebody else has a better credential and you know that this is it's like nobody's so you know that awesome or all that so s o I think keeping that perspective is good and in number two is just really recognizing that everybody has something that's really fascinating and cool I mean, you know, I might, you know, let's say I write for forbes and our debt doesn't, but you know what? Like, I do not know anything about having, like, amazing cirque du soleil events and I think it's so interesting and so I'd love to button hold her at lunch and just be like, tell me about this because you know about this whole world that I do not, and so I think that most people, if you engage them and really show them that you appreciate their their knowledge because they know things that you don't and, you know, things that they don't and if you can dive in and and really embrace that I think most people very quickly, even if in the beginning there kind of like, oh, you know, the just understand your cool regular person that's the hope anyway, yeah, quick question from you, barbara and let's, take note that I come from chicago also, and then I lived in washington, d c for many years, then I moved to napa. Eso it's so different the amount of people they have available to you to network absolutely moving around is fantastic for small town people. I mean, lots of people are watching online that maybe live in these little small towns and they don't have all these big get togethers are so that presents a whole another situation scenario. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's, that's really part of the amazing thing with the internet, too, because I grew up in a small town, I grew up in a small town in north carolina when I was grown subsequently, but when I grew up there, there was three thousand people in this town, I mean, man, I couldn't wait to get out of there, but, uh, but some people choose to live in small towns of three thousand people in north carolina and bless you for it that's great, but, you know, I so would have loved the internet that would have made me so happy because I could communicate with people and have different ideas. I mean, I didn't really fit in in my small little town and so being able to just find other like minded people, and so now we have he's, like amazing thing where if you are a knitter, if you were a dungeons and dragons person, if you're a day trader, you know, if you're a graphic designer, you know, you can find your community and no matter where you live, you can make friends wherever and I'm, you know, I'm feeling it in my own life in the past couple of years, I mean like such, a high percentage of people that I email with and talked with on the phone are like in china or in france, or in australia. And it's. It's. Really amazing, because things that never would have been possible to just have these people be like regular friends who are part of your social network. Now they are. And it's, almost like they live next door. So I think it's, really powerful. Living in a small town, is definitely no longer an impediment to networking.

Class Description

Short on time? This class is available HERE as a Fast Class, exclusively for Creator Pass subscribers.

Positioning is a fundamental business practice that individuals looking to advance their own careers can apply to themselves and their small business. Learn how to position yourself in this introductory course to the must-have personal branding skills for all creative professionals.

This course will teach you the skills you need to build an online and offline brand, presence, and portfolio. You’ll learn exactly how to make a rock solid first impression and how to craft and convey the message you want others to hear about your style and your work. Dorie Clark will teach you how to make the most of interviews, introductions, webinars, and more. You’ll create strategies for connecting with the right people at the right time and learn how to use those connections to nurture and grow your brand.

The success of your creative endeavors depends on how well the world understands your professional vision and what you do best. With these core branding skills you’ll level up your prospects and your business.

Class Materials

bonus material with purchase

Dorie Clark - Personal Branding Workbook

Dorie Clark - Syllabus

Ratings and Reviews

Student Work

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user Snaphappy

I took advantage of the free on-air broadcast. It was a marathon day jam-packed full of things that are rarely, if ever, included in branding discussions including business etiquette ( how to navigate awkward and uncomfortable situations) developing discernment regarding on your clients and associates, developing crucial relationships for clients, collaborators, mentors and sponsors, finding the appropriate social media channels for your business(es), and real-life examples from audience participation. Credit Dorie for my "aha" moment where it all came together resulting in focus and a clear idea of what my business is, my brand and a strategic plan I began implementing within hours after viewing the broadcast. This course is an absolute must for any creative with a business idea, a new business or an established business who wants to keep up with current business trends taught by a witty, intelligent, engaging, insightful, and inspiring instructor and equally informative guest speakers and who doesn't want to reinvent the wheel or spend a fortune going down rabbit holes. A very big shout out to Dorie and Creative Live - my creative go-to "peeps"!

Washeelah Youshreen Choomka

I came across Dorie Clark's work three days ago. I bought three of her online courses. I started with this course and I feel so grateful to her. She has done an amazing work and the course is awesome. I have been in politics before as a woman from a small island in the Indian Ocean and I wish I had done this course that time. The content is properly structured and Dorie's delivery is perfect! Thank you!


Dorie is awesome. If a teacher can get me fully engaged while I'm taking a class from home, they are a great teacher! After taking this class, I felt inspired about my future. I learned new things and was affirmed on some existing knowledge which is also a good feeling. I would definitely take another class from her and feel this is an important class to revisit.