Online Hot Seat: Influential Strategies
So this is the perfect time for us to really take all of these concepts and ideas that we've been talking about thus far, and bring them to real-world practical situations. So as you heard before, I had sent out a call to action to the internet world, and asked for you guys to submit your field guides, and this presents us with a fantastic opportunity for us to walk through some of these field guides. And what I love about the one that I found, or the one that we're going to use, is that this person has a much more personal take on how they're wanting to be influential, and I think that this is really important for the studio audience, and people watching from home. Because we've been talking a lot about building your influence and building your business, and talking about the business aspect, but it's an important lesson to learn that you still absolutely can use these influential skills in relationships, in family life, in your personal life. I mean, communication is something that w...
e use all day, every day, right? So we can use this in our personal and professional life both. And what I love is that when Reba submitted her field guide, she said that what I've learned in this process of putting together this influential field map, is that by mapping out all of this and writing it down, gives me so much more perspective. And she says it makes tackling the problem a deliberate process, rather than how I've been dealing with it to date, which has been very haphazard. And examining her family, which is what this influential field guide is about, examining family is hard. It's almost like I have too much information, 'cause she knows them so well, so choosing which influential hooks is what we're going to talk about today. And, but it's also the most important part of the process. This profile is very dynamic and situational, and it seems to help her in delivering the results that she needs in a different situations. So thank you so much for submitting this and giving us the opportunity about translating these influential skillsets in a personal part of your life. And so let's talk about the characters in this situation and who we're influencing, and the objective that we have for Reba. And the first is that she's trying to influence her dad for a very personal reason. Her mother seems to have the beginning stages of dementia, and so we're trying to influence her dad to influence the mom to get the screening for dementia so that way the medication can be provided, because when you get the medication early on, as Reba shared with me, you can actually keep a lot of the other symptoms at bay for a longer period of time. Now you might wonder, why aren't we going straight to the mom, why are you trying to influence the father? And the dynamic is very interesting, and I'm so proud that Reba was able to identify this, is that first of all, her mom has the early stages of dementia, as Reba seems to believe at this point, and so her mom is kind of quicker to anger, and there's obviously this whole other level that she has to deal with. And the mom has a very strong rapport with the dad, and so the dad seems to be the right person to influence the person that we're ultimately trying to affect. And what I love about this is that this is actually a very important and critical point that I learned from the CIA field operatives, is that some times you still may have the influential objective, but you are not the right influencer for that particular mark. And this is a great lesson, not only in Reba's situation, but also in sales. Sometimes if you have a sales team of people that you're working with, sometimes you may not be the right person to sell to this prospect, but maybe your colleague is. And this is where the CIA is so skilled at handing off to different handlers. So when somebody has an asset, and for whatever reason they decide that you can't be the handler for this asset, they go through a very thorough process to hand off that asset to the next handler, because there needs to be so much more rapport building. And I think where most people go wrong when somebody already is a client in the company, and then they have to switch from this is my point of contact, or my salesperson within the company and then all of a sudden, Bob is gone, where did Bob go, and Joe's calling me now? I don't know Joe, I don't want to talk to Joe. And I think companies need to be very skilled at building off a strong hand-off process when you need to switch the person who's handling that particular client. And also, if you can, if you notice that you're not the right person to sell or influence your mark, you have two options. One is to find somebody who is the right person, who is the right connection for your mark, or if this is an entrepreneurial venture, then sometimes they may not be the right avatar. As we've talked about from the personality profiles, you may just have to say look, I don't think that we're a right fit. Here's some people that I think could be a good fit for you. I've done that many times, where I politely send a client who I know is a wrong fit for me, but could be a great fit for some of my competition. And guess what, everybody's happy. I'm happy because I don't have a client that I don't like. My competition's happy, because they have a client that they love, and that client is happy because they're getting results that they want. And we all have this wonderful rapport. People will still even send me business. When my competition finds a client that's not a good fit for them, but is a good fit for me. So again it has to do a little bit with that ego suspension. Sometimes you just need to let your ego set aside, because there's potentially more of a symbiotic dynamic that you can create out of something that may not initially look like a right fit. So well done to her for identifying that her dad is the point of contact that we're looking for. So, her perception of the problem is that she's obviously very concerned for her mom, and wants her mom to get healthy, but seems like there's some of these barriers that she's not able to get the medication, 'cause the mom is resistant to it. And the dad is shying away from it, wanting to be in denial, like this is not really happening, and I just don't wanna talk about it. And sometimes when the discussion ebgins, then he leaves. He just doesn't want to, he says a few sentences, and he's out of the room. And so clearly, even though he's expressing that through anger, typically what is under anger is fear. So clearly he's very fearful for his wife. So, we've got our mark is Dad, and the objective is to get Dad to influence Mom to go get the screening for her condition. Okay, and so I'm not going to write up their perceptions of the problems, I really wanna kind of get more into what is in the field guide to put up on the board. Her timeline, and I think this is a brilliant timeline, is six months. And what I love about this is that in a lot of the other examples that we've done, it's been fairly short timeframes. This one gives us a longer timeframe, and I think it's very smart on her part to realize that this is potentially going to be a long process, because there are so many strong dynamics at play. So that's fantastic. And for the mark's values. So we have I, B, E, and S. So family is very important to him, as well as harmony. As well as also he is a scientist? He's a scientist with a PhD in biochemistry. So, having expertise, being an expert is very important. He also likes routine, he's kind of set in his ways. And education, knowledge, those are some things that are very important. And honesty. She wrote out quite a few, and it's great because again, there are so many layers, but then that gives us more influential hooks to come at it from. Predictability. So can you imagine how scared he is right now, if he values routine and predictability? And all of a sudden his wife has bcome highly unpredictable. Health. And the mom is a doctor? Mom is retired physician. So, we have highly educated marks. And, I'm just writing this one because god bless her for writing it and making me smile. (laughter) He values Stephen Colbert. I love it. So how he identifies himself is he is a scientist. He is an intellectual. He's a father and a husband. And a protector of his family. Beliefs, that if he talks to Mom, bad things happen. Or specifically, as she put it, if he talks to Mom then all hell will break loose. Yeah, yeah. And he believes that the family will be in a perpetual state of conflict, and things are better when you follow the rules and traditions. So he likes the order of things. And this is, oh my god, I love this. Oh wait, maybe that's, I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly if it's supposed to be, I think it's supposed to read this is a very painful problem for him. And that's understandable, because this problem speaks directly against everything that he stands for. His positive states, his positive emotions are family and learning. He loves music, he loves gardening. He loves humor and Stephen Colbert again. And he also loves anything that has to do with scientific pursutis. And he loves lively debate. Negative states are when the family is in stress, and he definitely does not like conflict. And going against the norms. Then what else do we have? If something doesn't make sense, or if it's not logical. So already, I don't know about you, but when initially I look at the problem and I just simply have this scenario of he won't help me get my mom get medicine. He almost sounds like a bad guy, right? It's just like, come on, dude. But then when you look, go through this whole process and see the whole human being, you realize I don't know about you, but my heart goes out to him. Clearly he has got to be in so much pain and so much frear because he is faced with the problem and challnege that goes against his entire paradigm of how the world should be. I mean, my heart breaks for this guy. And the next is secret goals or dreams. Family harmony is big. And better health, having a, so he's 77, just FYI, so I want to put that in context as to why she put this here. And one of his goals or dreams is to have a dignified decline towards death. And he likes calm and peace. And he wants his kids to be settled and happy. All right, so, we have the vibes, and I'm curious, I know she has it in here, does she not? His personality profile? I could have sworn she did. I'll find it here in a second, but before I write down what she put, I'm curious to learn based off what you see here, what you think his personality profile is.
People just joining us now were wondering if you could clarify again what the objective is?
Yes, of course. So, we have a daughter of a mom and a dad, and the mom has what appears to be early stages of dementia. And because the mom has a better rapport with the dad, the daughter wants to convince the dad to get mom in to get a screening, so that way she can get the medication that she needs. And he has been resistant, because clearly he has been scared and emotional about it, and so we're trying to get him to get mom to get into the hospital. Does that make sense?
It makes sense.
I mean, we've got layers here, but this is the real world. You know, it's not always clean cut. So, what do we think his personality profile is? Is he an extrovert or an introvert? Yeah. And is he intuitive or is he sensing? Sensing. And is he thinking or feeling?
I thought maybe feeling on that one. (group talks over one another)
Right, yeah, the harmony stuck out to me too. So that's a possibility. And then is he perceiving or...
Thank you, judging.
J, alright. I know she's got in here, and I can't find it, she actually put J/P. So, I'm so sorry that I can't find it, if she's online, I don't know if she is.
We're trying to figure out if she is, in the chat room right now, but yeah, we have some people who are just joining for the first time in the chat room, a few people had some questions on this, could you quickly just run through what each of the letters means, and vibes, I know it's a little bit of a review, but some people are new in the chat.
Sure, absolutely. And great question. So, when we go through the field guide process, and we go through profiling our mark, we look for, what I call influential vibes. And those vibes stand for their values, and identifiers, so the values are the concepts, or ideals that they live by. This is the filter through which they decide, is this good, or is this bad? And we all have a hierarchy of values. Some people have a high value of family, as this person clearly does, others might value independence over family, so they will choose their freedom lifestyle versus the obligations of family. There's no right or wrong to the hierarchy, it's just simply the ones through which we all operate. That we choose to subconsciously and/or consciously. The identifiers are key phrases that you hear your mark say that identify them. How do they see themselves? Clearly, being a father is very important to him, his scientific pursuits are part of who he is, and his makeup, so, and it doesn't have to be somebody's profession, so somebody could be an engineer, but not really love that nearly as much as the artistic work that he does at home. So, it's how they see themselves. Followed by the beliefs, and the beliefs are basically the if this, then that scenarios that we build from our identifiers, and values, so if I speak to my wife about this, it will create, all hell will break loose in the family, and that clearly speaks to how he wants harmony, and he wants consistency within his family, and calmness and peace, so he's likely not going to take that action if he perceives that that is a strong belief of his. Next, we have emotions. And that's basically figuring out what puts him in a positive state, and what puts him in a negative state. And we're identifying those. And last, but not least, we have secret goals and dreams, so what your mark has said about their hopes of life. Their higher selves, or achievements that they search for. And what those can be stated, or those could be things that you elicit from them, or observe in their actions and behaviors. And that, my friends, is the influential vibes. (laughs) So, and she outlined her plan for him, and again, Reba, I'm sorry that I'm not seeing the influential profile that you wrote down, but I think, from what I recall, we've got it fairly close here. So, now let's talk about our plan to approach and deal with dad. I'm just curious, what are our initial thoughts? It doesn't have to be like, how to start with him, it could be at some point in the conversation with him, or the process. Yes.
Well, so he values knowledge and learning, and he's a scientist, you said he was a biochemist, so I would expect that he probably knows a lot about how doing the screening, and taking the medication is going to be good for her, but I think his problem is probably understanding how to communicate effectively with her because when he tries to talk to her, there's a bad reaction. So my initial guess as to how to deal with this would be to somehow make it an experimental process for him to learn how to communicate effectively with his wife.
Great, interesting, interesting take. Absolutely, so, I'm going to go ahead and get a few other, I wanna get a sense of what you guys have learned, cause that's really where I think the people at home are going to see how people who are first exposed to this entire series of building your influence, can see how you guys can instantly can start putting into practice, and I'll jump in with some initial thoughts and everything. So, okay, Chris.
So we actually have Reba in the chat room--
Reba cleverly disguised under the screen name, a-nom-in-a, so welcome, thanks that you're in there, Reba. But no, she does say it's so fascinating to see Sharee dissect this, it makes so much more sense now. Even though I live this daily, I never saw it this way. So this is really helpful, I'm glad that we're doing this here.
That's so true, because when we are living in it, I mean, as they say, you can't read the label of the bottle if you're in the bottle. So sometimes you have to be able to step out of your situation, and sometimes talking, even talking through with a friend, as you go through the field guide, can be very beneficial, as well, but that's what I love about the field guide and this entire process, is it gives you the opportunity to just for a moment, step out of the situation, and step into somebody else's perspective. So, yay, Reba, happy you're on!
Alright, Clifton had some thoughts?
Uh, yeah, it almost seems like his logic and emotions are conflicting, especially since his values are also conflicting in this situation, and so my initial reaction would be to sort of help guide him through the short-term shock, and to the long-term benefits of how you can actually have family and harmony through the use of treatment and knowledge, and education.
Yeah, absolutely. So one thing that came to my mind is we have this identifier of him as protector, which to me, in this situation, reads as, he feels like it's all on him. And maybe he doesn't quite understand the support that he has in Reba and her brother, and so one angle, Reba, that I recommend, just based off of some of the other things that you've shared in the field guide, is that instead of trying to get him to take this action to talk with her, I'd try to coach him in how we all can do this together, and I can support you through this. One thing that is a really big unknown, and it's good that we can identify that this is an unknown, is we don't know, currently, Reba does, but we don't know mom's communication style, so if he speaks from a place of logic, as you recommended that we might educate her, that may work great for her, if she's an S and a T, but if she's not, then we may need to coach dad into how to communicate with her. So we would take a look at both of these profiles, after we kinda get a little buy in from dad, to have this discussion. Okay, Ruthie had some thoughts?
Yeah, it was very similar to what you said, which is that it seems to me, fear is the biggest obstacle here. And fear is undermining everything he stands for. So, probably the initial conversation has to center around how in-action, or denial and fear, is, you know, causing a lot of distress in the things he values, harmony, honesty, family, predictability, he seems to need control over the situation, and you can't assert any level of control without knowing.
Right, exactly. And so, one thing, I finally found where she wrote it, he is an I and T, J/P, so we missed the N, we went for sensing, and I'm curious as to what made her feel that N was it? Just a thought, just a question. But the other thing that came to mind, is I want to know what his VAK was, and she said that he's auditory. So here's a few things that I think are happening. Is he has so much of this fear, and he seems to have a very clear vision of what's going to happen if he talks to her, that all hell is going to break loose. So we need to get him to start talking it through, because he's auditory, maybe even speak to what specifically are you afraid of, what do you think will happen? And then we can lean in towards our technique of what if. What if that isn't what happens? What if we have a different outcome? What if she gets the medication? What if you don't have to experience these blasts of anger that we're getting from her, what if this actually will, what if this does create harmony? Because the path that we're going down on, dad, is going to be less, and less, and less harmony. Right now he's dealing with the immediate fear, but perhaps doesn't have clarity about the long-term potential pain of not dealing with it. Right? One thing that I wanted to point out as well is in these initial stages with him, we want to talk with him while he's in a positive state. So one idea that came to my mind is, maybe she can join him while he's gardening? And we can spark a discussion there. So setting can play a very strong role, as to when and where you have these influential discussions. Yes, Chris.
I think you're touching on it, so my question was, she says that each time these conversations starts, he leaves, right? Which is difficult to then start the conversation with. So is that how you address it? Is it setting how you address that? How do you approach it in a way, when somebody physically leaves a conversation where you're trying to engage them?
Right, so I'm, to be perfectly honest with this situation, this is probably going to take quite a bit of trial and error. But she has a six month timeline, so, good. We're gonna have to try quite a few things. But I think one of the reasons why I liked the idea of the gardening is cause we're in the middle of a task, and he's less likely to get up and leave. He may sit there in silence, but at least we're still in the same space. And if, anytime we can get him in a task of some sort, then he can go back and forth in the conversation, and the task, and because it's much different than we're just sitting in the living room and watching TV, and then I try to spark this conversation, it's very easy to leave that, versus a different kind of activity, yeah.
I just wanted to say, we got some feedback from Reba in the chat, and Reba says that I'm an N T and I assume that I'm like my dad, so I thought he would be an N T, as well, but from the points that Sheree's making it sounds like he could be an S.
Yeah, I'm leaning very strongly towards S, based off of his chosen profession, and just how he approaches many of the things. And he also seems to be very present-oriented. Cause N's are more future-oriented, and I think if he is more future-oriented, he'd be seeing things in a different way, yeah. Chris.
Maybe that's why she's seeing this issue, and wants to address it, if she's an N, right?
She's an N is what she says.
That's what she says, okay. Versus, he may not want to quite deal with it yet.
Right, right, because she's seeing the long-term of this because of her N personality type. Yeah, absolutely, great point, yes.
In terms of the leaving, is it ever appropriate to say, like, "Hey, dad, I'd really like you to hear me out "on this, can you please give me that time?" Is there a time when you can actually just ask for that presence?
Right, so this is how I might lead one of the conversations and prime him into a discussion, and perhaps, start with a story about, you know dad, like I'm feeling all (mumbles) just talking about this with you guys. Bless your heart, Reba. You know, dad, do you remember, back when I was 15, and I was really afraid to tell you that I got a C on my paper, but when we did talk about it, you asked me like what wet wrong, and that's when I felt like I could tell you that I just felt, like I had so much of a workload, and all the extra-curricular activities, and we had a really nice talk? I don't know, I was just kind of thinking about that the other day, do you remember that? And so that can be a priming story, to anchor that he can have these talks, we've done this before, we've been here. Just, let's remember that fact. Yes?
It brings up a question that I had earlier that I didn't ask. What's the proximity of priming? Like do you have to do it really close to when you're having the conversation, or can you prime multiple times and still have an affect over weeks, I don't know.
Phenomenal question, it's both. You can have a short-term priming section in your conversation, but for, and that's the short con. The long con is you have priming many times leading up to it, so one example is, like, if you want to go on vacation somewhere, then you might mention to your spouse, like, oh my gosh, isn't colorado just so beautiful this time of year? (laughs) And then you might some movie, like Dumb and Dumber is based in Colorado, then you might watch Dumb and Dumber one night, and then there might be like a pamphlet on the table of Dumb and Dumber, the following week. So there are different ways to prime leading up to it, and that's the long con, and thankfully, she has this opportunity, so if there are opportunities where she can, I don't know if I'd go straight for like leaving studies out, or anything like that, that's a little bit too overt, we might have to kinda get a little creative thinking of ways that she could prompt him to talk, or to tap into his protector side in a different way, or might have to really play with that, yes?
What if she takes a study about a new medication and goes and asks her dad to explain the science of it to her, she's like, I came across this study, I think it's really interesting, can you help me understand how the biochemistry in this drug is working, and how they did the study, and that.
Right, yeah, could be. Because he values being an expert, so not only would that potentially be a nice lead in to a discussion, but it hooks into his value of being an expert, and it puts him in a positive state, because he enjoys that, so that's a possibility as well. Yes, we have some other, Clifton, yes?
I was just gonna say that, as the protector, who likes predictability, as a potential solution, once you've already had a beginning dialogue of this, to help lead him towards studies, or potential resources that would help him get an understanding, and develop an expertise of dementia, what it is itself, and how it's treated, so that way he is prepared, and he has that knowledge, before having the conversation with his wife.
And I might even take that one step further, and I love that you saw the predictability part, it is maybe one way that we would coach him, cause clearly he's dealing with a lot of fears, and I think that if we give him okay, if this does happen, then we'll do that, if she does react this way, then we'll do this. And come up with scenarios, so then it's like, okay, now we just pull the trigger, and we know where we're going to go after that. And Reba can be the source of strength for her dad, saying, you know, giving that sense of, we are in control, we have more control than you might think, at this moment. And here's the blueprints of what we can do. So, yeah, great point. And do we have some others? Chris, what do we have going on in the chat? Is Reba piping in at all? Or other thoughts from folks?
Well, Reba's just loving all of this, and getting this feedback. We do have a question here, from freshstart, she wants to know if you could talk a little bit more about Reba priming to be open to talk, with stories of her own support, and how she has been dealing with the fear, and not avoiding the fear, so maybe we could talk a little bit more about some of the priming that Reba could be doing?
So I think that that's a phenomenal recommendation from freshstart, was it? And definitely one of the ways that she could prime him is by how she herself has dealt with fear in the past. One could also be that she could talk about how she dealt with fear in the past, and that could lead into, you know, that even reminded me of a time when he dealt with fear successfully, in the past, and then lead into potentially, you know, dad, I'm actually kinda scared right now. And I feel like maybe you are too. But I think that we can work through it. And lead into some of those other things, I know, if gets you doesn't it? It gets me, yeah. Any other questions or clarifications that we can, any other ideas? What I love is that we, because we have the opportunity to write this out, and see it, what is a highly overwhelming, highly emotional, high stakes situation, I feel like going through this process actually gives us a bit of a breath of fresh air, and potential to see opportunities where all before, it felt like a brick wall, or darkness, or just fear and scariness. And I think that that's what Reba shared when she sent in the field guide, is she said, I see more, it's given me much more clarity, and it gives me a path, versus what I had done in the past, which was much more haphazard. So, I just-- Folks, this is why I do what I do, this cool stuff. So even though we have focus mostly on business, you can see the powerful impact this can have in personal life and relationships as well, yes?
Can you talk a little bit about if this profile were the same, but he was a V or a K, what you might do differently?
Hm, okay. So, I had recommended, because she sees him being auditory, that maybe he needs to talk through it, cause auditory people need to speak through things, and the fact that if he's clamming up, it to me says, he's definitely stuck in this one mindset. Because, and it seems like he has nobody else he feels like he can talk to, so he is going through one loop, over and over, and over again about this situation. And again, heart goes out to 'em. So, things that you might do with visual, bringing in, I don't know if this would apply, but, I recall when my mom had a health scare, when I was 15, 16, and she had some major surgery, and it just so happened that around that same time, the show Home Improvement was on, and they had an episode about the exact same situation that my mom was going through, and we had that opportunity to watch it, and of course, it's Home Improvement, so it's always a happy ending at the end, so you know it's going to work out, but I remember that being an opportunity for me, as a teenager to understand, and feel more comfortable with it, so I don't know if perhaps there's a movie that they could watch that could deal with this, in some sort of way, Clifton seems to have an idea.
Steven Colbair segment, perhaps?
Absolutely, that would be perfect. And I'm gonna make a leap that even if we need to downgrade to John Stewart, or John Oliver, it still probably would work, that's a great recommendation. And then for visuals, if their might be something, the Alzheimer's website, I'm sure has a whole host of information, so if they have some sort of inspirational, helpful, videos, I mean, I know that I've seen plenty of those little, short videos of like women overcoming breast cancer, I'm sure Alzheimer's might have something that, you know, I'm so happy that I got her in earlier, and she's lucid, and whatever that might look like. For kinesthetic, if we get into the point to talk about these blueprint paths that we could go through, I might have him write it out with me. Or have him apart of this process and writing out, and that actually could be good for visual, I might write it out, and he could see this process, he could see the formula for how we're going to deal with this. He's a formulaic mind, so can we create formulas with him.
And diagrams, or whatever else, visual representations.
If he was kinesthetic, then I think the gardening option is a really good one, because sometimes people just have an easier time talking if they're using their hands, and occupied in something else, rather than sitting at a table, and feeling really cramped.
And I know that when, especially in that gardening scenario, you feel like you don't have to look, and bless his heart, his daughter, in the eye and talk about how he's scared, I mean that's difficult for dads. So he can maybe talk it through while he's, you know, doing what gardener's do. Something in the dirt. (laughing) I am such a city girl. But it gives him sort of a nice, break from the intimacy that might be needed in that conversation, so he can also has, he can distract part of his mind, and have that freedom, so, beautiful insight, yes?
If he's kinesthetic, could it also maybe be helpful to, once you get him to acknowledge that fear, to like act out the what ifs scenarios with him so that he knows how to react in different-- Like if he gets this reaction from mom, then this is how he's going to be.
Right, I think that's a great suggestion. Personally, my intuition is saying he's not going to be one for that, I think if he had--
If he were kinesthetic.
If he were kinesthetic, or if he was much more of a P, and much more of an F, and much more of an E, then I could see that playing out more effectively, right. Other thoughts, questions? Reba's online, I mean, we've gone through the process, we've given her some tools, does she have any questions, or anything that we can expand upon for her?
Well, yeah, if she does, by all means, let us know in the chat. I mean, she did say that this has been really great, and everybody else has been chiming in, so this is just a great example of how we're able to do this interactively, online, with this global audience, you know, having you guys help out, having the whiteboard here, it's been a group effort, but I think we really helped Reba out a lot.
Awesome, great, anything else in the chat that I can clarify, or?
Yeah, we had a question that came up earlier, let's see, this one, well, I'd like to get your take on this one, it's partially related to this, but we had some people talking about having a short attention span, and how it's important to kind of make that initial influence with someone right away, so we had a few people throughout the course mentioning this, and got voted on, any words, as we wrap up this section here and tying it in to this story with Reba, about making that initial first impression, and kind of building on that influence right away when people have short attention spans?
Um, I'd say that I don't think the attention span is something that I'd look for as-- I'm trying to figure out the context through which they're asking it, with Reba's situation, specifically, we know we have a six month timeline, so I'd say that this is going to be a building block process, and I think that the priming part, could be like a solid month worth of her sending these subtle signals, and then in second month, it can be trying to engage him in conversations that deal with his emotions, we kind of have to coach him into that possibility, and then perhaps, in month three, we can talk about how, finally bringing up the subject of mom, and talk that through, and then four, is building our strategy and plan to deal with mom, and then five is continuing trying to push to the field goal with it. So, she's got a strong timeline to deal with, and as far as attention span goes, I don't quite understand the question, I think as long as you stay engaging, and engaged with your mark, the continuous mirroring, you don't need to necessarily worry about razzle-dazzle every five minutes with them, yeah.