I know that we're talking about a very sexy title here pricing everybody just really gets excited about this all can decide that this is by passion when it comes to education, I love talking photographers about pricing and about how to set up a profitable price and that's what today's topic it is all about how to set up profitable pricing so there's pricing and there's how to set up pricing but today we really want to focus and really focus if we can on the profitability of your pricing and so in an hour and a half we're going try to go through the basics of where you start inside of your pricing and howto build it so that's profitable and already getting a couple head nods that's good sign to be a business you need to be profitable now I know a lot of loud there are maybe considering going into business are still amateurs nonetheless, you still want to set up your pricing from the get go so that it's structured to making money you want to get compensated and rewarded for your time you...
r effort, your energy we're going to talk all about that and so today in the hour and a half if I can set the stage we're really looking at is how to set up pricing that is simple, that is clear and that is profitable for your business so let's go and get going here why is this so important? Why is pricing so important? I actually heard that question a lot because I think photographer spent a lot of time as they go through and they look and work on their pricing they spend a lot of time and they don't necessarily always think about how to set it up for profitability they look around, they see what they need to do to make sure their pricing is competent to make sure that it is comparable to make sure that it reflects well on their market but what they don't necessarily do is focus on profitability and so I want to focus on today is why is pricing so important? Pricing needs to be set up with some basic fundamentals in mind and what you want to do when you start on your pricing is make sure that you know what you're doing, make sure you know what your goals are and make sure you know how to achieve those goals with your pricing so again pricing and why is it so important? Why do you care about pricing? Why should you care about pricing? The reason you should care about prices because that's the only way that people have to buy you they actually can't buy your photography they can't buy your brand, they can't buy any of these things unless a price tag is attached to it if a price tag is attached to it now, all of a sudden it can be bought and you can be bought, and the other thing that goes along with price is that if you don't have a good price structure, if you don't set it up in a clear way in a way that is designed to make you money, if you don't do these things properly, then your clients are going to be confused and not into buying you, even if they wanted to buy you to begin with so profitable pricing and why it's so important is because it gives people a way to buy you, and if you don't do it right, then people are not going to be able to buy you as easily now a lot of the issues that I see when I worked with photographers on pricing a lot of issues that come through on that, you know, let's be honest photographers tend to undervalue themselves when it comes to how much they charge, and I see it all the time and it's frustrating because I know exactly what that's like I started and my charged sixty eight dollars for my first wedding I don't know I can't with sixty eight dollars, but sixty eight dollars was how much I charged my first wedding, so I know all about undervaluing myself and I want to help you guys not do that I see it all over the place and I don't want you guys to undervalue your yourselves. You each have a story to tell with your camera, with your brand, with your personality and with people that you interact with and you have to set up pricing so you get fairly compensated for that work. You have a story to tell and don't sell yourself short by robbing your business of what it needs to be successful don't sell yourself short, I see people also we talked about, you know, undervalue yourself. I see people who make their pricing so confusing, you know, we're going to talk about that remember that people I don't understand what the ins and outs of what we're doing here in photography and it needs to be very simple for them to be able to buy it. It has to be very, very simple. So what is today looks like let's talk about what the outline for today's. So the outline today is first set, the stage of price and why it's important? Hopefully we have done that if you're tuning in, you obviously are interested in learning more about pricing and so we've got that established and ready go I want to look at where you need to start. To make decisions about how to start building your pricing, where should you go? What do you need to look at? What the questions that you need to ask yourselves and then we're gonna talk about which pricing method you should go with? Which pricing method is best for you now, there's a lot of different types of photography out there, we're going to have to take a few assumptions, but we're going to look at and analyze the most popular models for pricing, and I'm going to tell you why you would want to go with each one of those, and then we're going to look at the most important aspect to need to use toe build that pricing so the things to look for the questions, to ask yourself as you build and in the way they look at and evaluate your pricing. I want to tell you guys, though, that price and this is where the most fundamental things about pricing price equals value in our consumer's minds, and if you want to substitute instead of having the equal sign, think about this as communicates price communicates value so to our clients, price is so important because price communicates our value to them, it communicates are worth to them because they were selling a sophisticated product to an unsophisticated client is a sophisticated product, your photography it's not like you know, something that were involved in every day as a consumer it isn't something we're experienced it and that's why we hire professional and when we sell this sophisticated product people this product, this service that's complicated and difficult to understand we're selling it to when I say an unsophisticated buyer I don't mean that they don't dress well or they're not classy I mean that they don't understand they don't have the sophistication and knowledge that we do and when we're selling the sophisticated product to an unsophisticated buyer the only way they know how to value what we do is through our price think about it we do this all the time when we go and we buy things were looking at things were buying that we don't understand intricately we use the price to determine the value that's associated with that and we do this all the time and so you're pricing communicate your value to your clients and that's why pricing is so very important because you have I understand and we all understand how important the pictures are, how important our brand is, how important our personalities are but the only way that they can actually tangibly understand our value is through our price. The other thing is that price equals expectations in other words price communicates expectations to them have you ever noticed how your expectations from a product or a service change depending the price you pay where were far more apt to be to act differently for something we pay less for than something we pay more for? We're far more apt to have different standards and different expectations now it's easy for us to think of expectations as what we expect out of them. You know what we what we expect to get return, but it also has to do with how he perceived the value of it. It also has to do with how we perceive the process. It also has to do with how we interact with the vendor that we're working with and that's another thing that comes as a byproduct of price is the expectations that your client has good and bad for you and your pricing communicates this communicates he's very important things and pricing is what gives us away to be bought, so price equal value price communicates value and price also communicates expectations and know that as we build our pricing were communicating these two things, that people were communicating our value, and we're communicating our and their expectations. Okay, so where to start and what I really want to do is talk about we're not to start way we'll get to where to start, where not to start in building your pricing so these air some tragic mistakes I see people make when they're building their price when the first starting on and even if you already have a priceless, even if you already are well established your business it's never a bad moment, there's never a bad moment to look at your price and it's always good time, not always time to look at your pricing so where not to start in building your pricing? Well, let's first, talk about you don't want to base your pricing simply and solely on what others are doing, so you don't want to base your pricing on leon what everybody else is doing in your market now, this is pretty common because pricing isn't necessarily how do we say it? It isn't necessarily the top thing on our list when we get up in the morning, you know, there's so many cool things we could be doing there's something fun, things we could be doing, his photographers, you know, we can be a guy shooting, we could be marketing and we could be networking we could be editing or so many other things to do building our pricing, probably not the top thing on our list, and so what? We end up settling for the easiest way for us to check it off the list. It's just look around what abelson areas doing kind of pull a few things here, pull a few things there and move on right? And that's not a good idea, because I was going to show you in the next in the next slide where we need to start to build our pricing that has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else's is doing, and so, you know, it is a common human trait for us, it's common for us to not want to focus on the things that are hard, and if it's possible to take an easier way out, if it's possible to look at a few other prices for the price list in our area and just check it off the list, then we tend to do that as humans. You know, danny really talks about that. I talk about him a lot, and in a book that he wrote called predictably irrational, he talks about how we're flooded with decisions every day as human beings and it's not that we don't care about these decisions, it's, that we have so many decisions to make on a daily basis, any decision and any anything that can make our decision easier we take and so it's, so tempting toe look around the industry and to say, well, what are they doing? What are they doing and to pull from that? But I have to tell you not a good idea don't start by doing that second don't assume what your clients want so don't make any assumptions about what your clients want don't assume that they want something just because you want it now this is something that I call and it certainly is not a business term, but it's something I call the must haves and the must have are what your clients must have in their package or their service, and this speaks to that, but the problem we make a lot of times is that we put our wants and our needs into our pricing, and sometimes they line up with our clients, you know, sometimes they don't know sometimes our clients could care less about what we want and what we don't want to do is get caught sticking too much stuff in there that we did they don't want, and we also don't want to make assumptions. We don't make assumptions about what they want, you know? I love a quote, and I wish I would put it up. There was pride butcher it from henry ford if I have listened to what people wanted, I would have built a faster horse, so you've got to be careful, he's a guy about the first car, by the way, probably the most well known reporters, but just in case he's, a guy who built the first car, and if you listen to what people want, you wouldn't just both the faster horse and I know that's speaking to the innovation of the car and how fundamental that was, but I think he also has uncovered something great, which is oftentimes our clients don't know what they want, so not only do we can't assume what our clients want based on what we want, we can't assume our clients want based on what they tell us they want I'm just getting tricky, huh? So what do we do? I'll get to that, I promise, but don't make the assumption that just because your client tells you that they wanted that they actually wanted, I remember being outraged when apple came out with the first ipad and I was like, this product would be perfect if it just had a usb port, why did they not do that? And then, of course, in the buying one, I got over my outrage, and then, of course, I realized I don't need one, and they knew that I didn't need one if they'd asked me. I would've told you during running me when I'm not buying it unless you put one on there, but I did buy one, and I love it without it it's better without it, so remember, don't assume what your clients want number three don't build without doing the right preparation. So don't build about doing the right preparation if you don't know where you're going, you will never get there. You have to know where we're going and what you want out of your pricing to build pricing, you must know the end before you start, ok? You have to know the end, you have to know the goal and you have to know what you're trying to accomplish with this pricing before you even start a lot of times we just stick pricing out there, we look around the industry, we talked to some clients, we listen to what they want, we look at how much it costs, and so then we just make sure we mark it up a little bit and then at the end of the day, we never get to where we want to go is a business because we didn't start with the end in mind. You have to start with the end game in mind, and then you can actually build pricing that gets you closer to a business that achieve your goals in a business that makes you happier a business that contributes pricing that contributes to this business. So this is where not to start, I think we've got over that pretty well, let's talk about where to start. And really this is our road map here so our roadmap for where we want to start is perfect to get us started today because that's what today is all about is where do I start and building my pricing? Where can I start? You know it's so overwhelming I get that it's like, what do I even know? Even if I can't do those three things you just told me, then where the heck am I supposed to begin? And so you want to start with these three things here? Number one is you need to know how much you want to make at the end of the year. Now I know that you know, that's a bit of a pie in the sky attitude it's a bit of a of a stretch per se to think about how much do I want to make how much more interested in making I encourage you just to set something out as a goal doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, something you sit down with your accountant with necessarily, but you need to have some frame of mind of what you want to make so you can build your pricing so you can reach that otherwise you're just shooting, you know, your student blanks and you're not really sure what you're firing in what you're aiming at so I know how much we want a prophet second I need to know the number of events or units etcetera that you're trying to sell if you're an event photographer, you know weddings, portrait ce boudoir seniors, you're going to talk in terms of events in a number of sessions number of weddings, number whatever if you're you know, maybe selling product photography, selling commercial photography, landscape photography, you might be talking in terms of units, maybe it's prince, maybe it's you know something like that, but you know how much you need t move to build your pricing and the number three is you need to know the must haves that your clients have from you remember the must haves the things your clients must have in their package or their service collection tow walk away getting what they wanted, you have to know what they want you have to know they need to have some of these things or conscious some our subconscious some if you ask them, they'll tell you some they won't tell you and so it's really important to know these things and here's the unique thing about pricing and this is why I always couple of there is no tried and true one way of doing it if that's where to start and those three things are where you want to start, those are going to be different for every single one of you every single one of you is gonna have a different number everything one of you is gonna have a different amount of events or units except that you want to do and every single one of the organ attract clients that have different must have so there's no way to just write out on a piece of paper a step a step be steps see and have every single one of you be able to do it now there are tried and true methods we can do we can use but there is no generic boilerplate way to create pricing and that's why it's so important cause it's so custom is so customized for what you want to do so that's what we that's we want that we want to start that's that's the starting point of these three things right here profit number of events or units and your clients must have so let's talk about that a little more let's look at what you do is take a look what that looks like we go and get the there we go good advanced so this year and then you can write down what you want this year I want two hundred fifty head shots and I want to make thirty thousand dollars this year I want a book twenty weddings and I want to make one hundred thousand dollars this year I want to shoot fifty portrait's and I want to make fifty thousand dollars when you write these things down it's amazing how goals written down really help a lot room two hundred fifty head shots at thirty thousand dollars a year total, by the way, not thirty thousand dollars a head shot and so what this isn't this is not a shortcut, you know, you don't want this to be a shortcut on this is not a way to skip the financials. You don't want to let this be your financial situation, but what you want to do want to do is it gives you a starting point to create good pricing. So that means right now that if I did my math right, I need to make a least one hundred twenty hours ahead shot if this is my goal, if I did my math right, I need to make a least five thousand dollars a wedding. I hope I can do my math right in third one that's a thousand dollars a portrait session, but see what it does is it gives us a starting point to build our pricing off of we now know how to build our pricing to know we need to make at least x amount pursuit that's a fundamental thing that a lot of people skip over, how much do I want to make? How much do I want to shoot put those two together, and now we have a number that we can use to start and build with. Is it again, this is not a shortcut, but really it's supposed to be a starting point. I was just in italy a couple of months ago on vacation with my wife, and we went all over, and we looked at all the sculpture and stuff and it's really amazing to see what you know, like a state, for example, michael angelo is was able to dio with this sculpture was fascinating scene in person, by the way, the law burns reading the history book, but what was really intriguing to me was way went to all these places and saw this sculpture, and then one of the last stops we went to was where the david is and on the way in, they have a bunch of pieces lined up that michelangelo never finished, and so they're kind of half sculpted, and it was fascinating to me to see the process that he went through to get this big chunk of marble down to what we now see which of these amazing, beautiful sculptures, and so what he did is he didn't, you know, he would break it down chunk by chunk and take out the big pieces and just get the rough shape. And then he kind of whittle away and make you could start to see an arm and you could start to see a leg and then you start and he wouldn't do the fine tuning the really detailed stuff until the very very end I like to think of this as as just that we're taking a big block of marble and we have to start somewhere so this is a starting point we want to look at how much you want to make we want to look at how much you want to shoot and we put those two together to come up with this number to start off with you know, how do you have an elephant one bite at a time? This is our first bite you know we have to start somewhere and this is our first bite this should not this shit again not be a substitute for financials you should you know, I know there's been some great courses already here and photo week about the financials and they're going to have more on that and so you definitely want you know don't want to use this in substitute of having the financial health of your business you want to use this just to build your pricing is a starting point but it gives us a good starting point it gives us a good framework so let's talk about the two most common methods of pricing we have packages and we have all the cards we have packages and all a card and these are the two most common methods for event photographers there's a lot of other models out there that people can take advantage of. But even outside the event photography world I find these two methods of pricing end up translating to every area photography landscape of congress you're going to pull a lot out of this so on and so forth and these two methods of pricing excuse me really are what we're going to talk about today is how don't know which one to go with. You know I educate people on how to set up packages that work well and educate them on how to set another card system that works well. We talked about how to set up your extras list whether it's for your packages or whether it's for your own card list all these things are very important, but one of the things that people always ask me is well, wait which one do I go with? Do I go with packages or do I go with a la carte and I was on creative live a couple months ago and we talked about how to build your packages we talked about how to build your ala carte list we talked about how to build the extras list that's going to go on attach itself to either one of those but a lot of questions they got asked for that's great, but which one do I go with? Which one do I go with? And so I won't talk about today is how you can tell which one to go with whether you should go with packages over the you should go with all the cart how many of you? Right now just by a show of hands here in the room, go with a package model in your pricing raise your hand awesome having you both on the cart good, I mean you didn't raise your hand, we'll find out more about that will, but later so packages tending the most common packages are a little bit easier to put together all the cart is probably less common. I'd say that probably maybe ten photographers are using packages nowadays and maybe two to ten are using all car that doesn't make it one better or one worse. I have used both at my studio and both have been very successful. So let me just tell you from the outset that both can be very, very successful for you. You want to be a package photographer, you do great, I mean all carpet aren't you canoe great so both can and will work wonderfully. However, there are certain things that will work better, there are certain situations may be unique to you if you need to your situation where packages might lend itself better or there's certain situations where all a cart can lend itself better and so we want to talk about today's which one of these two should you go with which direction should you go with so ok packages what our packages what packages in general are bundling of your services and your products into collections that people can buy so it's bundling your services and your products into collections that people combined these collections we want them to provide clarity that's why we're putting them together we think that by putting them together we're going to make it easier for the client to know what they want and buy what they want so we're taking these concepts the's thes ie this idea that putting things together is making it easier for them to make a decision it's make it easier for them to buy it really does lend itself really well to that idea that we're selling that sophisticated product to an unsophisticated client so we're trying to do some legwork for them are saying hey, we know there's a lot of stuff on this list and your brand new at all this and so let us help you out we're going to tell you a couple of the different things that we think go well together we're going to tell you a couple things that people in the past have wanted to buy that's what packages is doing? And so again, it works great because we're making some decisions for them that's good and we want to help them out. We want to guide them. You want to guide your clients along helped them make decisions about what they should by it's very hard to make a decision about a sophisticated product when you're not that knowledgeable about it, I think about it, I'm going to buy a car, I know that I'm not really much of a car guy like I don't know much about cars, and so when I go to buy a car, it's a little bit overwhelming, you know, tell you the the you know, the two point five this and avi that and it's got this and I could go on and on, but those terms are a bit scary for me. Packages is nice because packages makes it simpler for me. Kind groups things together that I that I didn't know should be together necessarily, and so it puts things together. Packages also works really well when you know you're must have for your clients, because you can bundle them into different packages so that clients can see along the way they're different must have being realized. So packages are wonderful, and again, the most common, they're the easiest to start with. We're going to talk about that a little more later, but packages are the easiest for you to start with your business, and so we'll talk about that a little bit. Andi, I want to talk with some of you guys here in the room to kind of get your feedback about that, but packages are wonderful to start off with now, what is all a cart? All the card is a little bit different. All the car is price of each unit, each product independently on its own to be uniquely attractive, so we're relying on every single product. Every single service is that you guys do to be uniquely attractive, and when I say uniquely attractive, I mean it has to stand on its own, it has to be bought on its own merit in packages, things like this is what we have to be bought their own merit, and I might not really need eight hours of coverage, but it also comes with an album, and I want an album, and I think I need seven, but it's fine it's the package, right? So the eight hours of coverage it didn't need to be uniquely attractive, I didn't really think I needed engage in session, but it comes in every package, so whatever that's fine I'll take it you know that person might not about an engagement session if it was on its own but when it's in the package the whole thing comes together to make it attractive now in all a card every single product every single service you offered has to be uniquely attractive it has to be priced to be bought it has to be branded to be bought it has to be able to be bought on its own merit that changes the way we build it think about it you have things on your priceless that never get bought in all a card that might or might not be a situation where you want to take it off by the way it could be a situation where you need to keep it on because it's helping something else be bought but sometimes when things aren't getting bought it's because they're not uniquely attractive sometimes people don't want it and when we put it in a package we don't know if people don't want it we don't know what they wanted, what they don't want so all of card allows us to really cut through all of the different things that might be confusing our pricing and really figure out what people want and what people don't want it's definitely more clear because everything is unique on its own you'll know what people want at the end of the year I'm doing all the card says you'll know what people are interested in buying the problem is they might not about it because you priced it too high they might not about because you put the wrong spot on the price list they might not about it because he didn't talk about it there's some reason why they don't buy something the years still confused but least now you're confused about something else all the cart makes it easy for people to buy what they want where they want it and that's what makes it so awesome I mean you guys read choose your own adventure books in your kid what they awesome I like read every single page of it but this is exactly what that is all the card is like choose your own adventure for your clients now not all your clients want to choose they prefer it was chosen for them but clients do like to choose your adventure was made easy and went made simple and when it's made clear because they know they're doing exactly what they want and they're not getting it and they don't want that's the benefit to all a cart is it hard to set up? I think so but he can be done right and if it's done right then you can meet your client's expectations with their wants and needs okay let's talk about more about what this is going to look like why would you go with packages so again, how many we had about half the room here? I think it was that is going with packages. So why would you be interested in going packages? Well, first off packages are awesome if you are in your first two years of business. First year time here in the first years of business about half the room, okay, so we're we're looking good so far have been raising number packages and half said first years I didn't see was the same group, but we'll worry about that later. If you're in your first two years of business, packages are great and here's why packages air so great packages are so great in your first two years of business because you don't necessarily know what your clients must have. You're taking guesses about what your client must have. You know, if you're in your first year business, I always ask you will order your clients must haves? I don't know no one ever booked me before. How am I supposed to know what mike lines must haves are? How much doesn't know what the client must walk away with if I've never booked a wedding if I've never booked a portrait if I've never shot a senior before. It's a great point, you're gonna have to make some guesses you're going to talk to your clients, you have to talk to people you are working with friends that represent ideal clients, you're really going to have to figure that out, but you can remember how we talked about how packages allows you to group things together, to be uniquely attractive together because of that, you don't have to get every single thing right. You don't have to know every single must have, and you can learn about this during your first two years, and so packages were great for your first year as a business, you're going to see why when we talk about all card, why it's really hard to do all the cart successfully? If you're just starting out, you kind of need to have some history in your business to know what your clients want and don't want packages also make it easy in your first year of business, because package is allow youto bundle things together and test out which one they want, in which, when they don't want so you can actually learn must have while you're building these things while you're building along the way with your packages, so also packages were great if you are not full time yet and the part time and why is that well, when somebody books a package when somebody books a package from you say let's call it nine months before the white unless he's away in this example because it's it's so far in advance that they'll book you when somebody books a wedding package nine months in advance right there in front of you is everything you have to do to fulfill that entire cut our client you know when you need to do it you know how much you need to do you know, what do you you know in the payment schedule is you can plan everything out it can all be scripted from there you know how much coverage you have to provide if you need to second shooter are you doing engagement session that they buy now bomb? What are they getting? You know everything is the truth every trip, every type of package, this book when it's booked you get to find out what they need. Well, if you are not full time at this if you are splitting time elsewhere if you aren't able to put all of your energies into this business yet it's nice to have that road map because you can spend your valuable time on other things like shooting mohr networking mohr marketing more and you have the road map in front of you all the cart is tough because as you're going to see it requires a lot more touch points of the client packages you can kind of just set and go is what we're doing bam we're off to the races you know you should use ah workflow management system like shoot q or something like that it'll tell you when to do everything you need to do now with all the cards just off the case so packages are great if you're part time because literally you'll know if you're like us he's a white an example by march april whatever it is you can book up you know what your whole year looks like you have it all laid out in front of you because of the type of pricing model that you used so it's great if you're part time let's look also at the type of client you tend to attract now this is not as important as the first two but it's still very important packages were great if you are attracting predominately referrals here's why here's why it works great because let's say that you got married and I shot your wedding did a great job you're really happy of course I'm just kidding but you know you really enjoy the process and you enjoyed what happened so you referred me to your friends in next to you that's getting married she's going in the next year now you're naturally going you know want to talk more about this why did you refer him what's so great about him at some point you'll probably ask well, what kind of what kind of package did you get her? You know, how much did you spend or what should I look to get packages worked great for referral based clients because they come in a little more educated. They come in a little with a little more knowledge about you and about your service and about what you do. And so they come in. And when we talk about all the card is kind, like a choose your own adventure. Well, when they come in a little bit more educated, they're more apt to be able to book collections. They're more apt to say, my friend had this I'll have that my friend had this I'll take that all you went up in price. Good for you. You're successful. I'll take that one anyways, what unites fails? You raise your price. Congratulations. You're doing so well. Of course I'll spend that. I have no problem with that. All my clients had to say, I don't want you talking about, you know, but you know referrals tend to come in and they tend to have a little bit more of an awareness about what you offer. What you provide, remember, pricing is all about removing confusion and about making it simple. I like to say good pricing gets out of the way of a book and it was already supposed to happen. The book it was supposed to happen yes. That's that's what we're building up to here this whole hour and a half is about something that's so minor, but yet so major, it should just get out of the way. The book it was already supposed to happen. And so packages that work well, when you have a referral base clientele that come in kind of having an idea of what they want, he shot my sister's wedding. She got eight hours. I hear all the time you shot so that's when I love how you had two photographers there, you shot someone says, well, and I love that you did those engagement pictures. Can we do that as well? I'll take the package of, you know, I mean, so packages work well when our clients come to us from a referral based model, it's okay to review what? Why packages when use packages. If you're in your first year as a business, it gives you a great path toe. Learn more about what they want and it's awesome because you can create packages that rely on the bundling concept, and that helps when you don't necessarily know all the things your client must have why packages if you're part time because you get a road map delivered to you when they book and you can use that, set the thing in motion and move on to something else because you have a limited amount of time. Why packages? If your clients come from referral base, then they're going to come in with more knowledge, more education. They're going to come in understanding what you do, they'll be a little bit more sophisticated and they'll be able to better by the sophisticated products. That's why this is the three triggers and reasons we want to do packages let's talk about all the cart now why would we want to do all a card? Well, for starters, when you look at that, you can do all the cart much better when you're more experienced at this. So again, are how many years have you been doing? We talk about the first two years that's, just an arbitrary number, but in your first two years of business, you're learning a lot about what your clients want. If you're experienced, chances are you have a much better idea about what your clients want. Now chances are at this point, you know what your clients want now must have their really tricky must have when I consult with photographers one on one, we spend most of our time. Talking about what they think the must haves are and then testing that asking questions to make sure that we get the money perhaps to make sure we know what the things your clients must have we talked about the conscious we talk about the unconscious subconscious really unconscious subconscious must have and we even order them you're going to get him in order one two and three and it's so important taking him in order and to get him right because they provide the framework of how we build this pricing and it's difficult I totally get it is totally difficult you know there's no way for us to talk at length about how to create or how tio to settle on what the must haves recline are but you're going to know more about that when you're more experienced you're going to know more about that you know I'll tell you a little quick story everyone always nose in the wedding and on an event space nowadays in the in the in the photographing of humans the most important thing right now are the high risk files digital negative that's a must have that we know are clients of voice to us right? They tell us I have no problem telling us exactly what they want when it comes that and so that's one of the most typical things were working with we're doing must have is that usually one or two maybe however, I'll tell you an example of something that if you would ask my clients when they came in, they probably wouldn't say, you know, aa lot of the brides that I shoot don't necessarily point their finger in an album they don't necessarily tell me I need to have an album in my package, but in the end, I know that that's one of their subconscious must have for my clients, your clients might be told a different matter of fact, they are totally different because we all attract a different type of clientele took me years to learn that even though they weren't asking for albums, they actually wanted them did me years to learn, even just thinking on the price. She didn't necessarily solve that problem, but in the end I learned that they want albums and over seventy percent of our clients or the last, I think five or six years it is, um have bought albums and wanted when the package there's a good example of the must have that took me a lot of figure out when you're more experienced. When you been doing this a little longer, you can do all a cart now why is it so important I talk about this a little bit later? But all card is more risky because you better know those must have, so we'll talk about little bit more later, but you can pull off a cart if you know what your clients come to your meeting, you have to know that it also works if you're full time, so again, if you're full time, then you have to understand that you have now have the ability you now have the time and space that it takes to make all the cart successful. Okay? So all joking aside, folks are not going to just keep calling you up every hour to make sure they bought that extra hour to make sure they come back and buy the album to make sure they buy that canvas print you have to follow up with them, you have to stay on the top of their minds, and if you don't, if you don't and you let that slip, you're going to end up at the end of the year making a lot less than you thought you were going to. You are going to build this pricing model and you're going to build all these different things that go into play for all the cart, and you're not going to see the return because all the car takes having touchpoints. Throughout the entire life cycle of that client or else they aren't going to buy, they might want an album, but if you don't give them an opportunity to buy it at the right time, well, guess what, they've got sixteen thousand other things to do that day, and they're probably not going to pick up the phone and call you, so that takes time and energy, and I've seen so many photographers set up a wonderful ala carte model, and in the end they go to the entire year they don't execute on the necessary components that it takes to make an ala carte model successful. And then at the end of year, like I didn't make what I thought I was going to make, I don't make anywhere near it, and a lot of times it comes back to did you execute on all the different touch points that you have built in answer's? No, I got busy, I totally understand that you got busy that's why that didn't work, though, so this requires touch points of your client's constantly it's required to make it work. You have to have interaction with him quite a bit and that's a lot easier doing your full time your part time I get it there's like already, several things you're juggling and so trying to execute on all the cart system. Could be really, really hard last is all a cart works really well for non referral base clients because they don't come to you necessarily knowing what they have to have, they don't necessarily come to you when I say have to have I don't refer to that in terms of of must haves. I refer to that in terms of the way that they referred to remember what we talked about, the referral example and how you were able to know exactly what she got, which helped influence your decision. You talk to your friends about it, your sister, your brother in the person that referred to you. If most of your clients don't necessarily come from referrals and they're not gonna have that base, and when they come and they look at your price list and you have things bundled together, it might actually be easier for them. It might actually harder for him, and so they tend to do well by booking on another car basis. It tends tb a really great way from the book, and they respond better to that. Uh, referral base clients do well with both, obviously because they come in a little bit more educated, more educations, always good, but you can pull off packages a lot easier with her old days clients. Then you can with maybe a non referral base client and the real distinction we're trying to create here and for you to think about is where do my clients come from and as I think about where they come from, how does that influence the way that they understand what I do and the way that they in turn by that's what we're trying to look at? But we're not trying to look at marketing here? I'm not talking about networking, I'm not trying tio talk about how to get more referrals I'm trying to talk about thinking about where they come from when they're ready to buy, you know, what's their mindset, how much did they know? You know? So that's the thing going back to the car example, if I'm going to buy a car and my best friend owns a mercedes is a car guy has had a great experience the mercedes knows a lot about them told me all about them told me where to go to, but I'm more apt to buy a mercedes. I'm more apt to walk in and be able to buy that mercedes toyota by the different options more apt to understand these things that they're telling me the car dealership if I just say I want to buy a car and I just go to a car dealership and they start spouting out these different collections and packages two point five cylinder and you know v this and all that kind of stuff I'm less apt to understand that and so I might work better by being with a piece together what I see is valuable that's the concept really trying to get across here so I told you guys I can tell you about all the card and about whether you know how that played out and how little bit riskier so here's something that I like to talk about a little note about ala carte I truly believe that allah cart can and will make you more money but it is riskier or as I put it it's more risky the same thing right? So all the card can making more money why do I think that I'll tell you that here a second but it is riskier and I'll tell you about that right now all a car is riskier because how many of you guys have booked a client for coverage only you know you look kind of coverage only and then you get to the end after the wedding after the senior session after the porter session whatever it is and they're out of money they don't have any more they don't have money to spend on this anymore that's how a car can be risk here how else can all of carpi risk here? Well give another great example you have to know those must have and you have to know them well and he'll get him wrong you're kind of be in trouble because if you think I must have is an album and so you build all your pricing every everything about theology cart system you build is all about selling that album to them at the end you know you build your building, you're gonna have a premiere party and you're going to bring them over and that's going to be where u s anywhere you often you know, kind of meet them with the album offer and all these things happen and as it turns out, you do all this work for that and at the end of the year they really couldn't care less about oh yeah she don't want albums it all they want prince or they want campuses or they want you know something else they wanted the slide show and you spent all this effort energy resource buildings, priceless building all this stuff based on a must have that wasn't the case we're not going to sell any of the album's didn't want him and you're not going to sell very many the prince because you weren't hearing yourself up for that and you either and so you khun b in a risky position and so it's riskier but but it can make you more money and here's why it's psychological all a cart matches a client's trust with buying opportunities, think about that this is why all a cart can work so well is because it's all a card what you're doing is you're taking their trust, which on lee goes up if you're doing your job right as a client experience lengthens right? So when the client books you the first time they meet you, their trust in you is at their lowest it's ever going to be if you do your job right if you make them happy if you provide them beautiful pictures of great experience, their trust throughout that whole process just goes up and up and up and by the end someone's were practically best friends. You know, I'm great friends of some of my clients now the trust goes up and up and up more you interacted them and the better the job you do with him. Why then are we selling to our clients at the moment of the least trust? Well, because we have to but all the card allows us to just incrementally sell them as our trust goes up. So as they trust us more, we're giving them more opportunities to tell us that they love us by paying us because this is a business transaction so allah cart gives them the opportunity to spend with us in in lockstep as their trust increases in packages does not allow us to do that think about when you're offering a package you're asking them to spend all the money commit everything up front and at the moment of least trust the boat where they hardly know you you just might be a sleazy sales person always thought to bring their head by the end of the process they know you well you are friends with them you provided them with these amazing images a great client experience and so all the cards can make you more money because you are matching their trust with a buying up opportunity as the process lengthens and goes on that makes sense to everyone I think it's really important to kind of talk about that what does that mean? You should go with all the cart no, not necessarily I mean all the card can make you more money but it is more risky it is definitely more risky because you have to have those must have nailed down you have to have all that there but it works so well because you're selling to them as they trust you more and that is what buying is all about trust, right? I mean everybody tends ever ends on their head buying is all about trust if we trust someone were far more likely to buy from them if we trust a company or we trust a brand were far more likely to buy from there so many difference stats and numbers out there about that and so that's why ala carte can and will potentially making more money now if you don't have time teo, you know to go back and watch the creative live episode that I did a couple months ago if you need help with this, I do have a price of course that you guys kind of access to we talked about how to build an ala carte model we talked about how to build a package model we talked about how to build in extras let someone something we didn't even talk about last time and we didn't have time to talk about today was howto how to get must haves right? How do you get your must haves? How do you make sure the must haves right? So we talk about that in this in this video course that's eight hours, more hours or more of content and so on sale for nine, nine dollars throughout the rest this week with that code you got that jury bombing dot com to get that if you're interested on I want to before move onto the next portion of this pricing, talk to me about how to build profit price and this is the quote I want you guys to think about as you're building your pricing, okay? This is the fundamental this is the most important thing through your pricing you have the opportunity to create clarity or confusion so we talked about which pricing model to build with now is we transition in how to build into how to build that pricing model? You have to keep this in mind that good pricing is clear good pricing in is simple good pricing is not confusing and you have the choice it's up to you to make your pricing clear and not confusing it's up to you to make your pricing simple easy to buy your selling a sophisticated product to an unsophisticated buyer you have to make it clear well, he's probably good time for questions I know the size of my hands go out, let me kick it over to you live right and see we have out there in there you were striking a lot of interest in the internet right now you had a hot spot. Of course as you've been here before, you know exactly what they're thinking because quite often you're answering the questions as you go along, but there's a couple people wondering specifically any springs and george g and they're wondering, you know they have offered, you know, all of our options and their clients are you know, at the end saying, but what about, you know, bundling and creating a package out of this? Is that ever a good idea why or why not? Yeah, great question two points on that question often times it is very, very confusing to refer to this as all the ala carte method because we're also we also know that even if you have a package set a package, a package list, you still have things on the side, right and that's why I started calling out the extras list to avoid confusion because really that isn't all the card list when we go into a restaurant and we order the dog on restaurants, they really made it hard because we're all so used to that we go into the restaurant we can order, you know this that nothing or you can order something all a card, right? So we think of that side list is are all the carless and I prefer to call that our extras list that you need to have with your package based on your ala carte base by a lot of times if you're an all acc art model, you get this question you get what can I put together a package? Can you put together a package? And I say yes, of course do your clients a favor when I started getting more and more referral base clients, andi I was using all the cart we started to put together package is a package that we thought was best for them, and so what would happen is as an all acc art as an all the cart model photographer I would have all the car, but when I knew that a prospective client that was meeting with came from a referral, I would put together a package for them that I thought would be best, and when I sat down and met with them, I would show them the price list and say, now, you know, the big selling point, obviously when I talk about all the card is that you can, you can have anything you want, that's, the benefit of all the cart and all you have to do right now is just secure the coverage and that will, you know, we could make the rest of decisions later, and so I would talk about that, but I would also go on and say, but, you know, I've gone ahead and put together a package I think would work really well free, at least is a starting point based on the things that you've told me about your wedding based on the things that you've indicated to me and that's awesome, because you're not just create a package that you're going to use for every single client you're listening to what they want, and then you're putting the things together in the same manner they would, but you're helping them out, so you're kind of getting the best of both. World's, you're getting the benefits of bundling, but you're still doing all the clarity that comes from all the cards and from the ala carte model. So does that make sense that helped answer that benefits of bundling? I like that as a bundle tagline trademark that I like that in studio audience. Did someone here have a question? I did have a question, it was kind of the opposite of that, so if you have a client and you work with them on a package basis and they want to come back again, say it's for kids, portrait's or whatever as they're growing, is it ok to then say, well, if you don't want the package now, I can offer you a couple things all a car and is that ok to go that direction? S o the same life cycle you're coming, you know, in the same life cycle the client they book on a package to begin with and they come back later. And so what I think you're asking is a very good question. Can they book off? Do they have to book on the package? There look a package, you know, no that's what that extras list is therefore, and the extras list is there to support your packages to make your packages look better to make what's in the packages. Looked like a better buy that if they were to buy a piece meal on their own, but oftentimes it doesn't become the right decision for them or, you know, to book in the package and they want to buy it later or what happens. A lot of packages is they start to trust you more and more and more. And so what do they want to do? They want to thank you? They want to show you their trust. How did they show you their trust they buy from you? It's a business relationship? I know that sounds kind of funny, but that's how people show us that they like us in a business relationship they buy from us that's the kind of transaction we have with them, and so what they want to do is they already bought their package, but they still want to buy more because their trust in you, their appreciation and you, their value in you has gone up, and so you want to sell it him off in the extras list. And yes, it is more expensive when it's on the extras list because they didn't find a bundle, but that's the benefits of buying a bundle and the benefits of waiting to buy it in extras list is that you don't necessarily have to buy it. You know, you can wait and by later and so you want to have that extras list, no matter what price point you have, sorry, no matter what pricing model you go with, you want open extras list that sits alongside the packages that sits alongside that all the cardinal card it's kind of become blend together because that kind of the same and packages it's very, very distinctly different. Yet one more question here, the cart method are you would you be better off having a minimum order than because you said that's? The riskier part is they might not have any more money. Yeah, that's a great point and so, you know, with my ala carte, for example, for the wedding side, I would start at six hours of wedding day coverage, and so that was like my minimum package, you know, you couldn't look me for three hours because that just wasn't something you don't want to start with, like one hour of coverage, you know, an album, one page of the times you only want two pages should I don't know they can do that, you know, you want to have a minimum that they have to buy, and you make that the starting points I was started six hours of coverage of that have extra hours from there my arm just started thirty pages and then have extra pages you can buy from there. And I would also tell people, you know, again to kind of get some of the benefits the package benefits. I would say all coverage includes that debt that you all coverage comes with me and my assistant all coverage includes, you know, hand edited images and all coverage includes this stuff, so they know that they're kind of getting some of the packages thing that sounds kind of like a package of, isn't it? Andi? Kind of, you know, you could blend these concepts, but you have to have one and only one you can do. And that brings me to one good final point before we kind of keep moving on, which is, and I get this a lot. Can I do both? No, you cannot do both. You have to pick one. Otherwise they will pull each other down. So one has to be your focus. One model. So if you're a package model and you are building and basing everything and the point of sale is in a package model, then your extras list is priced and built to support and drive them back to your packages. If you have a package set up and then you haven't all a cart set up or you haven't extras let's set up and they are which one should I go with so it goes in a package you should go with it on his own should I go with it? Well let's see if I do it here I could do that know it needs to be it's okay honey, the albums that package or you can buy it here oh my gosh it's outrageous over there we'll buy the package one serves the other so you need to keep them and after all a cart don't have don't have packages on your left to you know you can have anything you want and you can have it bundled together and then because what does it do? It makes us have to stop and think is that clear? Is that simple now it's complicated we don't want things to be more complicated want things to be simple and want things to be clear and that's why we can't go with both so let's go ahead and move on on go into this next topic and we'll come back and circle back with a few more questions here so the key tenants of pricing that I was talking so hopefully by now you have the information you need to kind of decide which direction you want to go with your pricing which model you want to use now you to start building it for those you have to have already built that this is a great way to examine your current pricing you're saying jared that first hour what a waste of my time I'm a package guide I'm going the packers guy till I die well, good tune in now this is the stuff you'll like key tenants of pricing simplicity and clarity simplicity and clearly kind of go hand in hand I know but simple pricing isn't always clear pricing and clear pricing isn't always simple so just think about those things together this is the two key towns of pricing so when we look at simplicity let's talk about the simplicity concept here what is simple pricing? How does that work? I put a few tips that we can go over here first off think in terms of everyone and not in terms of anyone. So oftentimes we fall victim to putting everything in our price list that anyone could possibly want, you know there's somebody out there who wants a would cover from the sierras I'll put that on there I know that somebody offers it there's somebody out there who wants an eighteen by eighteen now but I know it, you know and I wouldn't want them to come here and think that I don't offer an eighteen by eighteen album so I'll put it on there and what you don't want to think in terms of shift your mindset, how much can you take off that price list? How much can you strip off that price list so that it's down to it? It's bare essentials think in terms of what every single person wants, not in terms what anyone wants. I talk about this a lot, and I used in and out of the example in and out has the simplest ordering process of any hamburger chain there is yet yet yet they have the most complicated and complex off the menu secret menu way to order, right? You can order it any way you want, and I loved that model because when you walk in, they know that eighty to ninety percent of people want one of three things. I want a hamburger, they want a cheeseburger or they want a double cheeseburger, and they thought in terms of what everyone wants, think about it, it's so many other places, starbucks no way the list just goes on and on. You mean god, I even know how to say I could walk into starbucks is speaking a foreign language with all the different customization is they have, and I could just go on nor gone, but they don't post all that on their menu board. They don't present all that to their clients. They don't tell you about all the different ways you can have it because you know that if you want it that way, you're going to ask the same is true of your clients. So think in terms of what everyone wants on ly build your pricing off what everyone your clients wants, not off what anyone in your client's wants, number two and we kind of touched on this earlier think of removing, not adding make it a game, have fun with it. How much can you strip away? I just recently had had someone seek out my advice and they had just launched a port portrait blitz, you know, like a portrait session, I think it's for the fall, probably because, you know, it's that time of year and they've gotten all this interest from clients, they kind of floated it with clients, they mentioned it all, that kind of stuff, and everyone was very excited she had, I think over ten, people that has expressed interest, so she put everything together, built a web page, threw it up and no one bought and so she asked, hey, what do you know any ideas and I wouldn't look that I was like, oh, my goodness there's so much on here and she's like well yeah that's because I talk to ten different people and you know, one person asked about that so I put that on there another person asked about that so I put that on there two people ask about this so I put that on there and I said what you've got to figure out how to remove because it's too hard to buy right now it's too hard to buy now this just isn't in the presentation this is you know when I say presentation I mean like you're you're you're pdf for you know your your sheet you should this is also in what you offer in how you offer it in the way that you talk about it in the way that you present that everything think in terms of removing, not adding because less is always more when it comes to this less is always more when it comes to this if you have to explain it it wasn't simple enough how can you make what you offer so simple that they don't ask about it it just get it all wears coverage got it good album done good got it let's move on you know make it so easy to understand so use that as your brother if you have to explain it then it wasn't simple enough if people are asking about it it wasn't simple enough clarity let's talk about clarity so does your pricing dot that does it move your client's closer to booking or further from booking number high set earlier in the day about how good pricing should get out of the way of a booking that was already supposed to happen? We all know that goes we've been in a meeting with um sometimes not even meeting now days it's a phone call to skype chat whatever it is things were going great pricing comes out bam gets awkward they don't feel book if you don't think about it a lot of that has to do with the way you talk about it and you know sales there's all sorts of things that go into that don't get me wrong but is your pricing clear enough that it helps the booking along or that it it actually moves you further from the booking you know think about that because in the end if good pricing is just a way for us to be bought it's a way for people to buy what we do then the pricing part should just be a compliment to all the other things that we've talked about all the other things you talk about your clients who you are, what you do who they are, what they want, what they expect the pricing should just be a compliment all that it should be like oh yeah totally you do get me how do you know I need that oh awesome yeah I do need that okay. Cool oh, good. Yeah it's the rate we talked about the phone before I came down here okay? Let's not let's talk about the next steps there you know and clear pricing does that that's a result of clarity clarity from the beginning from the start when they first start talking you but clarity in your pricing and the way that you build that pricing you know does your pricing create questions or does it answer them that's the second thing we talked about that from the simplicity standpoint but let's look at the clarity standpoint of it does it create questions or doesn't answer them realize where your pricing enters the process think about where your price and enters the process and that's where you need to make sure that you're ultra clear you have to take the opportunity where pricing is inserted into the conversation into the interaction and make sure that it's a very clear moment it has to be clear the pricing that you offer has to be clear because this is not the fun part they didn't come in to talk pricing I mean they came in to talk about how much they have to spend but let's be honest they came in there to create interaction between you and them they talked to you on the phone they have a skype meeting with you because they want to work with you they want to work with you that's why they called you they want toe work with you and make it easy for them to work with you don't make it so dog on hard they want to work with you they called you they love you, they love your pictures you just spent time interacting with them. Now they're really anew and you just want clear pricing that makes that an easy finish easy stamp you're done, you can move on and you can continue the relationship. Okay? So tips to promote simple and a simplicity and clarity so you're sometimes we talk about kind of all that what not to do starting this pattern, I guess if here's what not to do? Ok, don't worry, I'll tell you what to do now I'll tell you some tips and some things you can think about so number one don't use big words and confusing terms it's so funny, but, you know, we use these terms as if you know, like I'm in starbucks was time all these terms they used I'm like, what the heck we use these terms too. Yeah, I can't tell you any conversations I have I watched people have a time, I don't just go and get a trip tick I don't think they know what that means way over gallery wraps he realized they don't know what gallery wraps mean oh don't worry and we'll go ahead and I would just do amie spreads do you want spread? Excuse me these terms that we toss around they're not clear simple they're confusing my dad wasn't it was worked for the navy for like thirty five years many of you have any friends or family the military know that they love acronyms everything's in akron you know my dad would get home from work like talking my mom is like well, I had the b o e c meeting today and we were talking about the c f c f two the it's crazy how the vo two w is behind schedule but I told him, hey, if we ratchet up the two double eighteen, we're going to be just fine in the boc and I'm like that's great we'll get a good day at work you know, like I don't understand what you're saying and that is exactly what it sounds like to them when we chuck our pricing full of these terms it's come that side these big words is confusing terms. One other thing I know for presenting their packages like the f two point eight package and you know things like that and they don't know what that is you know, I just think in terms of simplifying these big words don't use confusing terms stop explaining uh stop explaining your pricing away I was consulting for photographer couple months ago and she had a part on the bless her heart she's the sweetest she's the sweetest girl I love her to death and she had this part the bottom that says why is photography so expensive? And I was like, oh, we're taking that out right now before we do the consultation and you could pull that off line no but don't explain in your pricing that's not that's, not the time to explain first off don't ever ask don't ever ask you to raise the question why is photography so expensive? But don't explain anything in your price and this is not the time to tell them your life story this is not the time to tell them all about about who you are about this is not the time think about it remember where does price and enter the chain of custody here they're already sold on you they don't need any more explaining they already want to buy from your surprising they're going to come out they don't need any explaining the explain is for earlier that's when you can explain now is not the time to explain they want to buy let's just bought let's get let's make that easy for them to buy that we don't need to explain stuff right now don't use bad design elements swirl, you know overly swirly font gray font of begins the white background you can't reason read it text that goes over these contrast to pictures you know, like white text and photos kind of black and whites you can't read half of it. These sorts of things don't promote simplicity and clarity. They promote compa complicit complication is singing a different word I talk about little bit earlier don't don't include your life story. So again, look at pricing, and this is not the time to explain things it's also not the time to tell them about who you are, that there is a place for that it's not in your pricing so again, don't attach things the pricing that don't need to be their pricing is pricing this isn't your brochure as well. This isn't your marketing material as well. This is pricing if you want to put one image on there to remind them they're booking a photographer great you want to for I don't show me don't put more on that, they'll tell a life story don't don't put things with your pricing that don't belong with your pricing as you're building your price and keep this in mind don't build things into that pricing that's not pricing. I see that all the time, keep in mind you're pricing is your pricing, and so the analogy I use is don't include your life story, but what I'm really going keep pricing for pricing because what they want when they're looking to buy is to just be able toe by embrace continuity, so embrace continuity and continuity is really keeping things the same as we go throughout. You see, we settle into a rhythm as buyers and as clients we settle into a rhythm. We do things that allow us to make snap judgments, so if I see for example, on engagement session in the lowest price package, I expect an engagement session to be in all the packages. Oh, if I see something like six hours of coverage and then going to seven hours of coverage, I'm gonna be really thrown off of it goes back down to six hours of coverage. As a matter of fact, I'm still going to thrown off. If it stays seven hours of coverage, it goes from six to seven I in automatically making a snap judgment that it should go to eight or maybe nine, but not six, not seven, right? And so we do these things to our clients by not creating continuity and meeting their expectations number, going back to one of the first points price equals expectations, price equals expectations and so of pricing those expectations, and you have to be able to deliver what they expect on that price sheet, and so continuity is important one the big things is engagement session or if you're if you're if you're waiting for dog where you're going, you're gonna have that engagement session and the engagement session needs to be there if you put in the first package and he's be there on every package. In other words, anything that you put in your first package has to be there in every package, continuity have good step ups as we spend more, we expect to get exponentially more right? I always hated it when I realised number what hamburger chain I think it's in and out, actually that I think I think it's them, I hate it when I realized one of these companies is you have you know how they like the meal deal like when you get fries and, um, coke or whatever it is, and you put it together, it should be cheaper, right? It should be cheaper than if you were to buy all three individually and one of these hamburger chains of isn't I'm like what that's that's awful, but we do that as clients we expected going by three or four things, we should be able to kind of get a discount on the three or four things bundled together and that's, what packages does for us that's a clarity that packages is able to provide the bundling concept well, don't mess it up by not having continuity don't mess it up by sticking to know of the hours of the print credit your first package because you're you know you're ah family porter photographer and see opportunity dollars of print print there first package, but then you get magali wrapping the second package, and it all makes sense to you that's why I don't give the turn fifty dollars anymore because I get together after that one thousand dollars, but to them, they see two, thirty dollars here, and they don't see anything here, you see what I'm saying, so even though it might make perfect sense to you, even though you have plausible deniability, continuity and your price, and as you create your price and it has to have continuity and you have to think about these things, you're building it don't get yourself in the trouble as you're as you're building pricing that doesn't have continuity, so they may have any questions about this. I always used to get a lot of questions here, and I'd love to take some some time to answer a couple questions about this. Yeah, I know it's kind of a common question, but I'll ask it anyway, so how do you explain to people that you have a package with five things? And they say, what if you cut to those off, is that going to be cheaper than yeah, and how do you address that? Totally it's great questions they want to take stuff out of your package you get these people they're always asking right? They're always saying, well, I want everything in there but that you know and I always like tio I don't know what the thing is hamburgers they were all the questions have you got hamburger? So we'll just roll it that way don't have ambition lunch so I don't know why that started I would like to go back that if you were to go into hamburgers place and say ok, so I'd like the hamburger awesome loving what I see here but no tomato and no mustard now how much less would that be and they really like wouldn't wouldn't be any less actually it could be the same price. Well, why I'm not getting a tomato and I'm not getting the mustard well because that's kind of that's the grouping that we put together that's what comes with the hamburger and if you don't want that then maybe should or something else the problem is that there's really no way to order hamburger like lesson you mean like that you don't have a lesson that option you do though in your package is because they don't want this package the third package up you can always say I totally understand and that's what we have the first package and then you can add the things on you want from the first package so what always someone was tell your clients to go down to the package that has everything they wanted it and then they could add stuff on now if you've done your extras list correct, you know what ends up happening right? They go ok? Awesome okay, so they're on this base package had in the album I don't want the second time was so leave that out, but I'll add in the albany on the extra chores of coverage it's more expensive than I just bought the package like well, yeah that's right? You know, I mean, when we're doing a wedding of this size and we're required to put forth and alban all those things that's why we have this bundling together we bundle these things together because I like having a second shooter with this kind of a wedding you don't want it that's fine, but just you need to book a packed down it doesn't have a second shooter and so that's the benefit of packages you drive them back down the package it has everything they're looking for and then ask him to build it back in with the experts listen, the extras list is going to, you know, either drive them to make that decision and stay there or just by and, you know, have a second tier they don't necessarily to take advantage of where they don't necessarily need to have but they'll see value in it you know they'll see value in it because even though they're getting that, they're still gonna have valued at more often than not yeah question here way do several different types photography, weddings, portrait's and so forth is there any disadvantage? I mean, is it ok to, like, like for weddings packages of great but for portrait ce you know, all the cart makes more sense isn't anything wrong with, you know, using one for one another for the other? No, there isn't anything wrong at all, you know, we don't I think that's a great question because, you know, we're a lifestyle business meaning that, you know, I might interact with someone on their wedding day and then I end up shooting their family portrait a year later, I mention your baby portrait's three years later, I end up I mean, you know, I end up shooting life these life events for them, and I have clients like that where I mean, I've been showing her kids for ten years now I've been I shot when they got married ten years ago and now I shoot their family and their kids and we have this happen and, you know, people are fine with making that transition, and the fact of the matter is, is that most market I need to make that transition? Because, you know, as they buying a package here, they might buy an ala carte here they might, but they're going to settle into a pattern and ritual with you and trust is going to supersede any type of offering you have at that point, when they're coming back to become a multiple repeat buyer, the clarity and simplicity, their pricing matters less and less and less because that trust has she proceeded it, and for the people who are first time buyers. Yeah, maybe you have a wedding brand, and you book a partner session that's completely respect that they didn't get married and have you shoot their what they they bought from you elsewhere, then they're never going to know about that, even even if they do, even if you have that crossover, it's still not a big deal, because as long as you're doing the model right, and you remember, when you're doing packages, you can't try to do all the car at the same time. When you know a car, you can't try to do packages at the same time, and if you're pricing is clear and your president simple, they're not going to be able t see any friction in that you're raising questions. There are a lot of great questions coming in from the internet, so keep them coming. You guys, one I'd love to shut out right now is from december boulevard photograph and says the hardest part on pricing for me is all the conflicting advice from experience photographers I hear you can't charge what I charge because you don't have the experience and then they hear you can't work for free or low prices because you ruined the market. How do you coincide, thes, and try to glean the advice from both sides to set your pricing? Are there good issue? Let me see are their session fees in this pricing model? Okay, so the product beginning photographer just starting out, so they're not bringing down the market they're competing with right? That's, you know, and that's the thing I think that we all end up thinking about what we're building our pricing is what I want to go back and encourage every single one of you here to do is to think about the three different things we talked about when you're doing your pricing. And don't worry about the rest of whatever else you what everyone else is doing now in the bonus section, the bonus city that comes along with with with with this course mornings I talk a little bit about is how to have a better price in the local market and how to have a balance that you do have to have an awareness, but at the end of the day, your pricing has to be about you, it has to be about your goals. It has to be based on what you want to do, how much you want to work, how much do you think you're going to be able to book and what you're trying to book and about the clients that you're working with now the rest of the rest of her body around you sure if you're trying to charge ten thousand dollars and every else reggie's tried in two thousand, there might be a little friction there, but generally speaking, the pricing has to start with you. It has to start and end with what you want to accomplish because prices just a way for us to get bought it's a way for our services to get bought. And so what? I want to encourage everyone I think it's a great question, because we spend so much time looking around, wondering about if I'm charging the right key. Is this right for the industry? I'm too knew of my too new to be charging this. I'm brand new at this how do I know how much is right for me to be charged? One of which is right for you to charge whatever your client will pay you that's how you know that you're booking at the right amount if your client is paying you so don't worry too much about what everybody else is doing, because chances are not that they're doing it right. It's not instead of doing it wrong, but right and wrong are not fact. Here it right is about what's, right? For you, your business, your brand, your goals. And how do you know how much to charge? Charge what people will pay that's. How? You know you have the right price. Great advice. Great. Well, what we have come from one more question here. Like a payment plan or something? Well, length, do you give them to pay you back for that? Well, that's completely up to you. And the plans are a great way to make it possible for a client to spend more or maybe not spend more, but actually spending about that you want him to spend the bill, do it over a time for that allows them tio t really not have to experience the effects so much set up a payment plan. I mean, you know, it's really just a process of making sure you cover yourself, what the same time making it something that's beneficial for them. So, you know, it depends on the life cycle of what you're doing. Obviously, why did you have a longer relationship? So you could have a longer payment plan? You know, portrait, you're going shorter relation life cycle and said he's been shorter, and then you get in a product and that's harder if they buy a product, they walk away with product, the payment plan it's a trick here because a lot more it's there. So it depends a lot on what you're using a payment plan for payment plans are good, though, and allow you work with clients that maybe not necessarily able to spend that whole chunk right now and are able to set its put it up and weddings and portrait's work well for that as a closing point on the hand plan because, you know, a bookie nine months out before their wedding, you know, so you're really you know, it's, the point on a payment plan is a lot of benefit there. But if you're selling like a landscape print, if you're selling a commercial shoot where you get to shoot in all the work up front a lot harder putting together a payment plan for that because it's more risk involved for you, it's a lot more risk involved for you, okay, let's kind of review the I want to review these tenants and then we'll move on. We have just one or two more points to make here to get you guys going on pricing again. Pricing and good pricing is all about clarity and simplicity, ok, through your price, and you have the opportunity to create clarity or confusion, okay? And this affects not only the size of the booking, but how many bookings you're going to get so that's not only affects how big the package is, how much they end up spending, how much they're not. Buying women only affects that, but effects how many times you're going to get booked and that's why I really want for you guys to be clear and simple don't use those big words and don't use confusing terms, they're putting things together keep it simple, stop explaining where we talked about how this is not the time to explain, and this is also not the time to meet them with anything other than pricing don't use bad design elements. And that goes beyond just price and it goes in the way you build your price list embrace continuity I think the most important things here, if I had to prioritize the first in the last one embracing continuity is so important in setting up good pricing now again, it took the entire day to talk about pricing when I was on creative live before and so what I don't want to do is try to give you a half hearted attempt at how to build your pricing and so that's why I want you guys to keep these things in mind you'll be eighty percent of the way there if you're able to build your packages if you're able to build your ala carte with these things in mind, you're gonna be set up for success with these five steps right here and so you need to keep these five steps in mind as you're going through and as you're building embrace these things and you guys will be set up for success and I want to leave you with this concept is our last concept we're talking about here ok is our last concept without good pricing this is straight from the cellar education seller education lead at etsy without good pricing, your customers will wonder why and that's what I want to leave you guys thinking about we think pricing is just about how much we charge but remember you guys pricing is about so much more to our clients price equals valued remember what we said price communicates value and if you don't charge the correct amount if you don't charge in the correct way if you don't present it the right way your customers will wonder why why are they charging so little why are they why are their work is beautiful? Why are they why is their pricing confusing? Why do I not understand it? Why is this so hard? Does this indicate the whole process will be hard? Is this indicate the whole process will be confusing what and what they really start to wonder why about is the other way around is when you have great pricing and they've met with somebody else and then they come and they go oh that's exactly what I want wow that's so easy price equals a value in our client's mind it's the only way they can put value on something is by the price that we charge and here's the real deal guys is that you guys are photographers and I'm telling you you each have a story to tell and you have to spend time focusing on your business to make sure your businesses around so you can keep telling those stories you guys have to take price and seriously because you have to get paid at some point in time to do this to keep telling those stories to keep getting in front of those clients, to keep having those relationships, and I want each of you to be able to continue to do that. I want each of you to build a live out, this passion based business. This is a passion based business. You know, if we want to make a lot of money, we would have gone and then lawyers. We're doing this because we love it because we have a story of tell because we have an influence and we want to have an influence in our clients lives. But you have to be able to charge for what you do. You have to feel like you're getting paid what you're worth. At some point, you have to be able to get paid at some point, what we're doing to call this a business, and I want that for you, and I want you to embrace having good pricing because that's what's going to allow you to keep telling those stories, to keep influencing those lives and keep doing what it is that you love.