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Sit Down with Chase Jarvis

we are going to, uh, we're gonna do something fun. So, my friend Chase Jarvis's here. He is one of the co founders of creative life. He is the guy behind Chase Jarvis life. He does interviews with tons of amazing people. Uh, he's world famous photographer. I think he introduces himself like that. I'm Chase Jarvis, world famous photographer on way. Always have a good time hanging out to chase is your chase welcome. That was in the hot seat down here in the hot, so it was a lot easier over there, right? I No way. Okay, so you for having me on your show on letting me a few questions. Can you please look in the camera and say I'm chased? Jarvis, world famous photographer? That's still embarrassing. No, I won't, dio, but I will say I'm here with my good friend. Remain who? And one in the in city audience and all the folks at home know super super Well, I have been friends of them for a long time. We've been on my show. Chase Drivers Live is one of the most successful classes on creativelive...

money and business for creatives. I have also gone on record, saying that this man gave me more advice and help me make more money as a creative any other business advice had ever received. So in this little like 45 minute segment here, I'm hoping to sort of replay some of those moments that I experienced and hope that you can generalize how the folks at home and the folks in the in studio audience can just pick up these nuggets because they're super tangible stuff like you can take this and make more money tomorrow. I know if you saw there's a syriza tweets a couple days ago, like I saw a chase and remit show, and I hadn't closed a lead on Yelp in two months, and I closed to today, the day after I watched the show. I mean, that's not like the measure of life changing success, but it's just like it is just super tangible, an actual so actionable. Um, before we do that, I hear there's a little video that these folks in the booth who are also hugely meet fans. By the way. I know I don't know that whole reads in the house, but they queued up a video that is reflective of the class that you could buy this class today, but also your class on money and business for creators is on sale today. I think so. Um, I It's one of the top sign classes on creativelive. It taught me more than I've known about making money as it created before. So I think this might be a que did that. So take it away, guys. In the booth, I'm room meat satay. Author of The New York Times bestseller I will teach you to be rich. I teach people how to take control their money, how to earn extra income on the side and had a land, their dream jobs. I've helped over a 1,000, students to this, and I want to help you do it two way. Want to do the right thing? You want to be adding the maximum value? Or do we want to be struggling like we're in quicksand? Stuff I'm talking about today It's disguised as money, but it's really all about behavioral. Thanks to this course, I've got a noble full of useful tips and ideas. How to successfully grow my business, how to, uh, add value to my clients. I didn't understand that concept loving what you do and just following your passion is not enough. When people believe that you are truly their advisor, that you have their best interests at heart, you take the relationship to a whole Another level. This course has made me feel so energized. So it's been like light bulb. We're gonna learn the ins and outs of resumes, interviews, natural networking negotiations. It's going to completely revolutionize how how I apply to jobs, how I just keep a network in general. By the end of today, you should be able to increase your rates by 30%. It's taken me from that plateau place and given me the energy to really strive to get above and beyond when we are able to truly understand what people say, what their hopes, fears and dreams are, and we could use it to help them and invariably way reap the rewards later. All right, man, Um, yeah, that that class is super super influential because there you're selling confidence. Like that's one of the things when you roll into a meeting or when you're having to sell yourself like I'm chase driver. Some famous photographer that I'm gonna use that forever against me. Um, now, but just like teaching, people walk in and say that in command what it is that they're worth super, super, super valuable. So I think if you bought this class, it's actually gonna be in your check out any way I want to cut right to some of that. The material That is a nice segue way between the previous section of this course and the one that we're looking at right now, which is creatives are notoriously terrible about representing their own and like, their own interests. Is it genetic people who could draw Well, suck it. Negotiating, man. They're the worst. Yeah, we're the worst. I'm like, Imagine you you know, you really When did you realize you were artistic and that you loved it? Well, I knew it my whole life. I was actually sort of ahead fear of being an artist. Because I was before that I was gonna be a soccer player, professional soccer player. And then I dropped out of medical school and then I quit. Good quitter. Think I could've pH. D program in the philosophy of art to ultimately pursue my dreams, But I was pursuing those things because that's what everybody else wanted to do. So I had some. I'm generally a confident person, but just there's a lot of societal pressure around like, Hey, I'm an artist and this is what I do for a living. I'm a photographer, takes Coronas to put it out there. And so when I realized I got through that social pressure and I just started calling myself of a talker for my whole world changed, as opposed to I've got the camera like I'm a photographer like that. Like putting it out there in the world was a huge change. And the first I remember the first sale, I licensed a picture for $500 in a pair of skis. Maybe I don't get a look out for my own back, right? Uh, but it was I was nervous as hell to ask for that because I thought like, Oh, I hope this hope this big here is good enough for this person. Yeah, and I I had it all wrong, and I'm sure you're gonna remind me why. Well, I mean, imagine you You grow up from a young age and you're like, I love this, But everything society tells you is you can't do this. Um, there's no money in art. Find a real job. That's cute. And then, as you get a little bit more advanced, go to art school or wherever you go, you got a creative good creativelive. Yeah, that's right. The people around you who are your artistic piers have been, uh, dunked in this idea of This is just your passion. This is your craft, but you're gonna get a real job. So not only are you hearing it from your parents, you're hearing it from the newspapers. You're hearing it from the people around. You classmates, your friends. How are you supposed to be? The one who says no, I'm gonna be the best. And I'm gonna make more than enough money to be comfortable and to love what I do. I'm gonna be the best. It's It's almost impossible to do that for sure. So when you're in business, it's a little different. So business people, it's not that they're born naturally more confident. It's that the ecosystem is different. And so I'm not saying jumped from being an artist to a business person, you can be both. There was a question earlier about I'm really bad writing Copy. I'm bad at writing content. Yeah, you're bad now, but that just means you're inexperienced. The same as for creative people. You haven't learned the craft of representing yourself and being confident. You learn the craft of photography or are whatever. You haven't learned the craft of marketing and selling yourself and your products. So those are things that can be learned it. And I'm living proof. I think you have to have a certain amount of talent as a photographer. That's just be straight up. You need to be in the same way a pro golfer can hit the ball down the middle of the fairway every time they stop up, whether it's raining or not raining or 10 people watching or million people are watching like you have to be good at your craft. But this whole other world of selling I often nowadays, now that I've had a long, uh, great careers all you're so good at marketing and so good at selling yourself like I used to suck like let's be totally honest. $500 on a pair of skis. I mean that I would negotiate a pair of skis in there. It just makes me. It's like the albatross has been flying around his shoulder for a long time. Why, why wouldn't I just do $1000 anyway, but entirely learned, literally, entirely learned? And a lot of the like stuff that I didn't have a name for or wasn't like I didn't. There's no experience that I was struggling to find out. Are things that are in your money in business for creatives and you've named them. You've you've given them basically life, you giving people a path to learn them. So let's talk about some of those. Let me give you an example right now, right? So you said I'm a photographer and you stopped. There's something really subtle about what you did when we first start doing something new when we're uncomfortable, for example, think of like if you're a guy. When I was in college, I dressed like every college student you know, not that well and that well, actually, I look at my old photos and they're, like, atrocious. I just found my old college cache of photos, and I'm like Oh, my God. So but when you graduate like, I wanted to learn how to dress better. So I asked one of my friends like, Can you take me shopping? And she's like, So she takes me shopping. She taught me how to be more confident about what I wear. But what happened the first time I put something on that was a little different than like a hoody? I went out with my friends. And then what's the first thing based? They start calling you. Oh, were you trying to impress why you wearing that? Blah, blah. And you're already insecure. I was insecure. So now I'm sitting here like Oh, my God. Like, you know, they think I'm a weirdo. And that is a pivotal moment where you can decide to go back to the way you were. Or you can say this is my first time off course. I'm uncomfortable wearing a pocket square or something. But I'm gonna stick with it. And after two or three times, I was like, Screw you guys. I love this. And then you get more confident what you say. There's no consequences. There's no counts except your own confidence and So you said I'm a photographer. Notice how, when you first start something you'll say Like people say, Oh, what are you doing on the side now? What's your job? Oh, I'm a writer, but I'm also trying to do blah, blah, blah, blah Baba or I'm a writer. I'm working on global, just on weak way, like you're a loser. Totally. I was having a dinner party and everyone went around saying what they did. The most powerful people at the table were ultra crisp. Yeah, I'm a photographer. The people who had the least going on had the longest introduction. I'm doing this, and I also have this project on the side. I've been doing this, and for the last two years I've been doing that. It's it's we call High competence Trigger to be able to confidently say, I'm an author. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm starting a business to help busy moms lose weight. Silence. It's incredibly powerful. I would challenge everyone toe walk away today and just do that once, especially for something new. I'm an entrepreneur helping ambitious mothers lose weight. Do I have to do that? Do it right now. It's incredibly difficult to do, right? Sure, but it's very powerful on its powerful. More than just like uttering the words and the people on the dinner table. Hearing. Enter your client hearing it. There's some stuff that goes on in here. I don't. You guys know anyone to Stanford in psychology, so you're all getting analyzed like nobody's business right now. But that's like there's a There's something. There's a shift, and you can start to say the first time you say that feels little bit. Were you say would use? I'm not quite so sure. And every time you say it thereafter, and I encourage people that again, this is separate from the Kraft. We're talking about you. You got your good at your craft or good enough. You always need to continue to work on their. But this whole world is hugely different from being good at your craft, and it's being good at the craft of business or the craft of selling yourself, which is, let's face that art is either right. Miro can draw a red line on a white canvas and can sell for millions and millions and millions of dollars, and it's totally not the right approach say, Oh, it's just a red line on a canvas like, yeah, it just took him his whole life to figure out that that's valuable. And the reality is, Is there someone who is very happy to pay many millions of dollars to get that painting? So what's it worth? It's worth what someone will pay for it. That's a whole different world. And that's the world that we're talking in here when talking about here. When I say I'm a photographer and when you put you actually go to the work of like getting a girl, putting up my work in putting up a portfolio and you know, in the art case a business card or leave behind like that shows your work. And if you hand something, it's like, Yeah, you know, I really don't like this like this like, Boom, this is my favorite picture of all time. My favorite picture. I have a new favorite picture every week. This is my favorite picture last week, like the confidence just specifically with putting out your name and saying what you are putting it on a business card. Printing it and shouting it from mountaintops does incredible things to your psyche. And this goes for a photographer, designer, cellist. Like anything it's it's if you can make a living, Um, if you can spend time in the same way you spend time on your craft, spend time to think about how you're selling yourself. It is is the number one changer of, uh, of money. Making more money is actually being good at that. I think it's It's It ultimately contributes to living a rich life because it's one thing to love your craft. It's another thing to be great at your craft, but that's incomplete. It's 1/3 thing to turn it into a living, and a living doesn't just mean again that you're sitting on your cash and swimming in it. It means that you can invest in yourself. You can buy better equipment, you can reach more people. You can hire an assistant to help you. You can impact more of the world. If you knew you were the best at what you do, isn't it your obligation to tell the rest of the world? So that's why we don't just want to settle for being great at our craft. That's good, but that's incomplete. you want to take it to the world? There's a hole that I think this is. I hope this is a real and this is a key take away. I'll just call it what it is. This is a key. Take away that you It does not matter how good you are. You could be the best in the world. If you cannot sell yourself or your work, you will not be successful in the term success like have a house, an apartment, a car, whatever you need to materially survive like north of squalor. You just won't. I'm telling you you will not and because no one's gonna do it for you. Very, very rare cases that someone come along and an agent or weapons and discovery that is Ah, crock of shit. That just does not happen. You have to be able to first walk in the door with confidence. Show people your work. It's a like I'm good and this is how I can help you, though. You know how long it took me to do this? It took me the first time I launched my $4.95 e book. I was utterly petrified and again you can see it in the sales copy. You can see me defending myself against charges of being a sell out all this stuff prematurely and, uh, and in fact, some people did call me a self. They were like two stars jumped the shark. I will teach me to be rich like all this Bs, and and I think to myself, those people I had been writing my sight for free for three years. I had not made a cent. It was very hurtful because I had the best of intentions, but I didn't have the skills to properly sell myself. I put it out there. People could sense the weakness and the cowardice in my copy and therefore the attacked. Because if someone says by my stuff, and it's the first time you've ever charged, the natural thing for people to do is to push back. It's a term called React. It's if you take away someone's freedoms in this case free stuff, they naturally pushback. It's the equivalent of saying, Mom, don't tell me what to do. So they got mad. It took me three years to truly understand the psychology of selling three years and I'm not talking about like, Oh, like I went to lunch for, you know, a couple times a week, three years of day in and day out, 10 plus hours a day of like studying other people who had done it and finally being able to do this In one of my recent courses, over a 1,000,000 people saw this course launch. It was extremely high end course. There were tons of qualifiers. You are not allowed to join if this this this this this I was unapologetic about the price. I was like this. This is I mean, it was many multiples more expensive than anything else that on the market. And I said, Yeah, because it's the best. And I didn't just say that capriciously or to be arrogant. I knew it was the best, because I have done all my testing out of a mill. Over a 1,000, people that saw there were fewer than five complaints about price. Compare that to when I launched a $4. e book and I had, like so many all the haters, How dare you! But now what? I learned the skills of selling and so not only did I feel good, they felt good. This this idea that artists needing to be introverted you can be introverted and still be a successful cellar that's introvert expert doesn't matter. I am extremely extroverted, but like it's still it was a It was, ah, headcase for me to be able to be a seller, and the same is true for introverts like it's going to be extra hard for you. But if there's literally there's a handful of things and so I want to kind of move into some of those things. We talked a little bit about it, Um, and you talked a lot about it, frankly, in money and business for creatives. And if you're just now joining me, I'm Chase Jarvis. I'm the co founder and CEO of Creative Live, and I'm here with my good man Rem eat, and we're learning what we've learned a lot or could have been on there for last couple hours. But we've right in this segment right here. We're learning about how to make money on better business for creatives. How can you take your craft and turn it into a job life that creates a rich life, if you will. Um so give me some techniques, actually. Know what? Before you give me something I want to refer cause you had Vanessa Van Edwards. Yes, Uh, I have had the good fortune of hanging with Vanessa, it south by southwest last year and from the back of a new. But we're broadcasting live to ah 100 countries. Um, and what we called uber live partnership within us and uber and Vanessa was she's like, here is the number one problem that creatives do when they say, OK, great. How much is gonna cost for you to shoot my wedding? Say it's $500. It's like if you're if you literally have it. I mean, it's laughable, but I see it all the time. I hear it. I mean, like, and it not just with what the prices it's like, Yeah, I think I can do that. It's like how unconfident is that sound. It's like the on opposite day. That's confident. So this is it's, you know, it's it's, ah, $2000 for me to shoot your wedding. And if you want me to shoot an engagement section, you know, you know it's an extra 7 50 for that. The difference between those two things totally learn herbal skill right there. Totally learn herbal skill. You can look at it and look yourself in the mirror and you 100 times and get it right. And then that will literally quadruple the amount of money you make or you can charge. And so I just got that tip from Vanessa. I'm I've gone past that. But that was something that went all over the Internet. They were very, very happy. But that's just one thing you've got, like, five others for me. So let's talk about the pathology of pricing. Um, I don't know how to know what that means. There. I mean, the worst mental barriers anyone can have comes up when it comes to pricing. You could have the best product, the best photos in the world. You could have the best website. You could have even become really good at writing, copy. But it all comes down to the moment where there's a value exchange. How much is this? And if you don't master that moment, none of the rest matters because I could go out in my head. Oh, this is gonna be a $500 course, and someone says, How much is this? I see Ah, 500 or like it's 500 but I can give it to you for 100 today. Do you know how many people they go? It's, Ah $1000 course, but for the next two days it's $100 a special. If you had the world's best material on anything, why would you discount at 90% ever? It's just telling the world I'm full of shit. I don't value my own. I p value my own skills. I value my own art when you you have that sort of Internation. And again Vanessa would have the right sort of psychological word for it. But if you're not exerting confidence, it's just a reason for people to negotiate with you. One of the reasons that so many people are nervous about charging premium pricing is that they've never actually been in a situation where they paid a premium price. So I have people they say we meet. This is outrageous or the best word is that is ridiculous. That's why there's two words that always tell you have a serious problem customer. I'll tell you the two words right now. That's ridiculous. That's where Number one can anyone guess The second word? It's disappointed. I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed that you would charge him exactly my mom, who would never be disappointed in me. Oh, interesting. You don't have Indian parents, so I do, which is disappointed and ridiculous. Are low competence triggers. These are the sign of someone who's not serious about investing in themselves. So the problem. So what we learned from Vanessa's you don't need to deal with that. That's not the Those are the people in your tribe or your audience. When it comes to pricing, many people have never experienced premium pricing. So if you've never gone to a restaurant that costs like, let's say, 50 bucks or 100 bucks if you've never bought something that's a little more expensive. We had somebody here who bought an expensive mattress. Or if you've never paid for anything that's higher than what you could get for a commodity prices, why would you expect other people to pay you? If you've never gone through the experience of putting price aside and focusing on value, then why Would anyone do that to you? If I go into a Mercedes dealership, Let's just pretend that have a Mercedes. I don't have a Mercedes because you only know there's only two cars I can get. A Honda Accord. Toyota Camry. That's all the Indian people get. But let's pretend I had a Mercedes If I went into a Mercedes dealership to get my car serviced, what am I gonna get while I'm waiting? Who could tell me? I'm gonna get coffee. Super nice coffee. They're gonna clean my car for me. They're gonna do everything right. They're gonna take care. They're going to take care of kids, Whatever. If I go into a, um, Subaru dealership, nothing against Subaru's. But that's a very different market. They probably are not gonna clean my car. The waiting area is gonna have, you know, metal chairs or some kind of low budget chairs. It's a very different experience. If you have never experienced something at the high level, how would you know that the Mercedes buyer is their car, which costs four times with a Subaru cost? The motor isn't four times better. Okay, but the value the experience is well worth it for those people. So if you haven't ever experienced true value exchange true premium service. I'm not telling you to go buy a Mercedes, but go see what it's like and realize that the people in that Mercedes dealership or in that nice restaurant they're not stupid. They're smart enough to be able to afford that. What are they getting out of this? There's an awesome segment on this in your, uh, money and business for creatives. Ah, and on chasers like actually, I think they gave us a special girl for your earlier class. It's creativelive dot com slash ra meat also where you can get that class right now. But that the I think it was there or a chaser of his life Where you when you are. So you talked about the briefcase technique. You talked about a whole bunch of things. Try. This is concrete as I can be, but the spokes at home and focusing in city audience try tripling your prices instead of like, oh, I want to make 10% more like literally try and sell the same exact thing you're saying you're selling right now. Tomorrow, when someone calls for your wedding thing or whatever. Try and triple it. Well, let's do a role play right now. Okay, Let's do a bad tripling of the price. Let's do a good tripling of the party I performed. So why don't Why don't Maybe the Askar you want to ask your great and then let's say we're ah, wedding photographer. And the until now I've been charging $1000 for the package. So you call me up and go ahead. I'll be the bad version first. Okay. Hey, there. How's it going? I got a great referral. Um, from Sally. She's my cousin. She said that you just in a knockout job on her on her her wedding, And I was wondering if you could, you know, if you're available in October? I got I'm getting married. I'm super excited. And I really want a great photographer because they only this only happens once. So are you available and Yeah, I'm looking at my calendar. That looks like it would work. Great, will. I mean, I don't know how much you charge this is a big deal for us. Way don't have to worry about that. I'm sure we can work something out. Okay, that's good to know, because I'm you know, we're really on a budget, and my you can work with you on that. Okay? My hope is that, um you know, we can be in the $500. dollar range, because that's basically what I budgeted. And, uh, just we heard you were just awesome. Well, thank you. Uh, yeah. I mean, normally we don't do something like that. I mean, our normal rates are 3000 but I know you came referred. So, um, how does, um, 1300 sound? Well, that doesn't sound like 500 or 1000. Uh, which is what? I like my budget. My absolute maximum is 7 50 And, uh, actually, I might be able to go up to 1000 cause my husband, like he saw the pictures and he didn't know it doesn't care about photography When he's like, these are awesome. We need to get this dude. So, like I said, we're usually 3000 but, um, you know, I do want to have a relationship, and I know that I'm sure this is great exposure, and you'll probably refer your friends. I will. That's if we can cut a deal like I will tell five of my friends. Oh, definite. Okay, then we have a deal. Okay, So look at what happened. I want to do that. That was both of us, Like all the rage that we felt about pricing is like coming out in that. So, like no notice what happened? First of all, he's doing a concept called verbal tipping. And this is from a great book called Waiter Rant. And he talked about He's an undercover waiter, he anonymous waiter for years and years. And he talked about how the worst customers would come. And they would say, Waiter, you did an amazing job. The food was outstanding. The service was impeccable. And they go on and on and on. And he knew that they were gonna be the worst tippers. Why they were verbal tipping. Verbal doesn't pay the bills. He wanted to be tipped. The best customers. They're polite. Of course there, Curtis. But they understand that there's a value exchange when I tell you. When I was young, we walked into a gym last week. I was a kid with my parents, and I don't know why we were OK. So we walked into a gym. My parents, they got some gym membership and walking and and there's these glass walls where the trainers are behind, you know, they're in their offices or whatever. And I was like, Were those people? And they I don't worry about them. They're just here to take your money. So there's this concept of If someone charges a premium price, there's somehow taking your money. That's a very immigrant mentality Now. My parents don't think that way anymore. I certainly don't think that way, but a lot of us have these beliefs in our head that if someone's charging a premium price there, somehow getting one over on us, they must be ripping us off. If they're just tripling their price for no good reason, maybe they are. But you probably can guess that someone who is charging a higher price in general is probably something else going on there. Like for me, you could go by like a $19 e book somewhere you buy one of my courses, you're getting a phone call from a trained rep. We custom build our own software. We spend years developing and testing it. There's a reason we charge more, It's put it. Put it this way. Would you rather pay $50 for something That's probably not gonna work. Or would you rather pay for something you know is gonna work at that point? Price is a mere triviality. So what do we do? The good one. All right. All right. Hey, uh, uh. I got a recommendation from my cousin Sally. She said you were just awesome. I mean, and her husband normally is not a photographer guy. Always business guy, But he loved these pictures. And I'm wondering about a wedding coming up. I know a little bit short notice. It's in October, but dying Teoh to see if we could hire you. And I know anything about how much you charge and ask my cousin. But we'll, uh, first of all. Thanks. I really appreciate the call. We know Sally so well. She's a great friend of ours, and she's worked with us on a number of proposals. What's the exact date of the wedding? It's the 21st of October. Oh, that's pretty soon. Let me take a look at the calendar. You know what? We are booked. That day. But as I mentioned, Sally is such a good friend of ours that we can find a way to make it work. And I would be more than pleased to shoot the wedding personally. Wow. If we can find a way that makes sense for both of us. Wow. Okay, Well, I have no, like, I don't want to get, like, too far down the path without talking about price, because I I don't have a ton of money to spend its not my, um, again, just limited budget. I'm sure you understand. And so maybe could tell me a little bit about your pricing. Absolutely happy to share pricing before we get to pricing. Let me just understand what it is you need. So you're looking First of all, what would an amazing wedding photo album look like? Well, it's I mean, I only get married once. Theoretically, it's like one of most important days of my life. So be it. Being awesome is totally is totally critical. And you said you've seen some of those other photos that we've take. Amazing what struck you about those. You were just in the moment. It was like, you know, I have seen a lot of photos where it's just, like, stand and smile and you It's like you were just a, uh You're a documentary photography working in a way I've never seen before. It was unreal. I appreciate you noticing that. You know, we don't We don't serve everyone. We work with a select group of clients who are looking for a specific type of photography. You'll notice that in the photos we did, there's a lot of behind the scenes photography. That's because we don't just send one or two photographers in our teams. We actually send four or five. They all work with six different types of lenses. Well, that's gonna be way out of my price range. Is that well? I mean, it depends. We certainly have different options. But first, it's just important to understand. You know, this is something you do once in your lifetime, and you've been through the wedding industrial complex. You know that Everyone's trying to charge you for everything. Ultimately, if you think about a year a year from now are the flowers gonna be something you remember? Is the tent color gonna be something you remember or is it gonna be? Those photos that Okay, I'll buy it stopped. Right. So notice what happened there. So that was just like, Okay, so he so he's He's cutting as a bad customer. He's asking price first price, price price. Now I'm gonna tell him the price, but first I want to understand his needs, and I'm asking for his needs, right? I legitimately want to know what is important, too. Because if he says price is important to him, I might just say, Look, this is not the right fit for you. Someone comes to me. And the first question is about price. I say sorry, my materials not right. And for those folks at home, if you're just tuning in, we're with this girl. You need to be listening to everything he's saying because that little key right there if the first thing that comes out of someone's mouth, this price, uh, commercial photography tends to be a little different high, and I incorrigible ivory. But if that happens, I will say, I'm I mean, I just go on a limb here. I'm guessing if, like prices, normally something we talk about always, you know, happy to be upfront about it. But if that's your number one concern, I'm definitely not your solution. I'm not a bargain photographer. What we do is only work with the highest and clients in the world and that I can refer you to some other people. If that's your M o. And I'm not judging, but just to start the conversation off, like if prices your number one criterion, then we're probably not a good match. Absolutely. So he asked about Price. His answer was amazing. I would absolutely think about how you can employ that and the psychology behind it of I'm not trying to serve everyone. I'm just trying to serve the right people. And you know that there's a gating thing that makes like, I want to be the right people. Yes. That's the psychology and client, right? Yeah. I might not. The right people like I get I got extra money into the mattress here. I'm gonna You're never going to trick someone into paying you too much. You're never going to. People are very smart. Respect them. You're never gonna trick him into over pain. Never. But there are a lot of mental blocks people have about paying for premium pricing. I gave you the example of the immigrant thing. There's a 1,000, others. What? What I did in this example that we just did was, he insisted, multiple times. What's the price? What's the price? And I said, Help me understand what's important to you. And then I explained, I educated my client on why my service is different and valuable. So in the end, the price is a mere triviality. The journey to get there and the fact that I pointed out you're going to remember the photos bubble. But by the way, that's brilliant like that for speaking specifically to photographers. Like all this other stuff like you're not remember the code flowers. But these photographs are gonna literally last your entire lifetime. Yeah, and then you're all sudden like, Oh, should I paid, like, two grand for the cake? I'm in it for the photographer like a Canadian. Start leaning forward. Okay, checkbook ready. So what do we see overall here? It's not just, I mean, we're not just talking about photographers and we're not talking about wedding negotiations. It's not the point. The point is that there will always be people who want to come to you first. For price, price is easy. That's easy to lower your price. Anyone could do that. That's why you're not gonna do it. There's something to be said for being the best. When you are the best, you get disproportionate rewards. So I spent all the time to become the best in the world that X y Z. Now I get to reap the rewards by helping the right people and charging for that. But the key, the real key to all this is you can do all that. You could be the best. Your craft. You could do this if you can't communicate that at the moment someone asks you for your price. Whether they're asking you or it's on your website, you lose game over. So all this work that we're putting in tow our craft toe, learning how to market it all comes to a crescendo right here at that moment of purchase. And if you have done it, if you have learned and it will take time, but you can learn it, we teach it in the course. We teach it on my website when you can learn that all of this becomes amplified so much more powerful, and your customers can smell it. If you're weak, they can smell it. And they will. They will run you over the coals if you walking with confidence. That's why I'm encouraging literally to trouble your prices. And if we're wrong and you start losing gigs, Actually, what you're losing is you're losing crappy customers, and a soon as you try and appear to appeal to everybody, like I'm starting to talk if I need to make any amount of money. The first day rate I ever got paid, I believe, was $2000 the first time, the very first lot, every any anybody ever. And this was 100 82 years ago, so but the first time that anyone I ever got paid to go out on a commission, I charged $2000. You know what I said? I said, Okay, well, what's your rate? This is a five day shoot, so I need to know what your rate is. And that time was like, Well, my day rate is $2000. Uh, you know, since it traveled is obviously gonna be travel costs. And so I don't want you to miss al que budget cause it's gonna cost me time and money to get there and get back. And they said, Okay, Well, um, $2000 to 6 day shoot, Uh, it's a 12. Okay, we can do that. And you know what I said inside it and say like, yes, I said, shit, I should have done because anytime someone says yes, that easy. Like I like it to be like, Oh, gosh, I'm not sure I could afford this. This is a splurge for me. I want when I see Chase Jarvis, I want to think premium process, premium product. You want them to be grudgingly accepted. Like I got to talk to my team. All right, all right, all right. And when that's when you know you've got it, people are they again? You're never going to trick someone into paying you too much. It's never gonna happen in the history of the world. It's never happened, but they're, like, got it. All right. He's worth it. He's the best guy. If you ever take a crappy low price. Simon says if you take this crap job, this is like another golden thing. If you take this crap price right now, next time I have more budget I'll then I'll pay you. This is anybody heard that before head nods, exposure will give exposure. You should just laughed those people out of the room. And if you do what you're actually doing the best thing you can possibly do. Because if someone says, if you're the $500 photographer, like, oh, we only have $500 like well, you like my normal rate is like 2500 and like, Well, we have 500 sort of and you say Okay. And they said, Look, I promise The next time another thing comes along, I'll pay the 2500. You don't they say, in their brain to themselves, that person is the $ person. And when they get $2500 what are they gonna do? They're gonna go to the person that turned him down twice at that's there going like, Oh, there was one person who is 2500 and I want to cause there's a direct correlation in this, like psychological mind of the buyer of up like more dollars higher value. And that's the truth. We I'm gonna take us to the phones right now because we're going out 5 10 minutes and we should find out some questions with folks in studio audience. But before I would like to go to the Internets and I don't if you've got some questions, I've got some questions. Absolutely. This one comes from Rick, and he says, What's your technique and methodology for assessing the right amount of content to include in a course or product I e overwhelmed versus under? Well, great. It all comes back to the research. So when your understanding your market, for example, I have a course called Find Your First Profitable Idea, I discovered that there's a huge amount of people who just want to have a profitable idea. That's it. And so because that is their only concern. I created a course that's very simple. It's effectively an E book with a bunch of videos, and it's it's It's simple. It's priced modestly, etcetera. But then there are people who say I want the entire system. I want to learn what to charge, how to do marketing, how to grow at Saturday. I can't include that in the E book. I had to build a serious video course and that courses eight weeks long. It's extremely comprehensive, and the price is accordingly higher the investment. So you want to understand what it is they want. If someone wants to lose £10.10 pounds, that's it. They're like their last stubborn £10. Okay, that's a very real phrase. That product is gonna be very different than someone who wants to change their energy on day to day basis or wants to lose 100 plus pounds. It all comes back to what they want. Keep in mind, you can help different segments. You have to start. It's nice to start off simple, and then you can build from there. I think that's great. That's great advice. You can actually create some variants in there based on what you're going to like, what you're going to do for them. Let's have another one from the Internets. Yeah, this one's from Rosie Renard, and she says, Can you talk about the importance of your customers language? And how do you go about finding the phrases that help you connect with the audience Yes. So we talked about that in the last last couple hours. I'd recommend if you have already taken a look at the video, I think you could buy it today. The language is one of the most important things. People focus on quantitative research. Oh, I need to do all these analytics. That stuff is nice, and we do that. But qualitative research represents something like 90% of our researcher words matter words matter the words they use, we talked about what creatives respond to. They don't just respond to, like, oh, like, become a better photographer they want to know about. Are people gonna call me a sellout? How do I find high value clients, Not bottom barrel clients? Those are real words. And so the way you do this, you ask them. Here's an interesting thing we talked about asking you either find them on Internet forums. You go to your peers, go to a local college if you have to. There's a 1,000,000 ways to do it. Some people say remained. How do I find these people? It's like so hard to find them. And my answer to them is if you can't find them Now, when you're not even selling anything, how do you expect them to find them? When you are selling something, you find them by doing your homework by doing your research. If you're selling wedding photography to start by Googling wedding photography, look up the forums. Look up the sites by. Within a couple of weeks, you should have a pretty good sense of the lay of the land, and people want to answer your questions if they can tell you're legitimately interested. Yep, that's good feedback. Uh, so in studio questions, let's take one or two of those. We got it. We got one old JIS. Hands up. Um, again, before we go into that, I'm chasing sitting with her. Meet this class. You buy this class, you also in your check out. We'll get your other class, which I think is just the master classes. Like 20 hours of video or something. It's huge. Insane has things like the briefcase technique, which, if you hadn't heard that that's rolling in and anticipating your client's needs, there's like that much stuff is very important. Now back to you, my good man, tell us who you are first. Eso I'm Jay. I'm a fitness coach. Great. So funny. You ask me that because when you guys were describing sort of the personal brand, Uh ah and remediate described you as a photographer. Well, obviously you're CEO of this company. So how do you describe yourself now? Great question. I'm a photographer and entrepreneur. It depends on what he goes system into. I generally, if I'm if I'm in a business setting on the CEO of creative lie of the world's largest live streaming education company in the world, you contest it too. That's like, yeah, nailed it. I used to say I'm a writer. Then people would say, Oh, yeah, my cousin's a writer to your cousin's unemployed, your cousin s. So then I tested other things. All of them were true. I'm in. I'm an author. I'm an author and entrepreneur. You test it, and in five days you can find out what people respond to, and that is what you can go with. All of them are true, but you can always test your internet. You go to ah, trade show our ah workshop or something, and everyone's there. If their their network, You're finding out really quick what works and what doesn't you know? And if there is one phrase, I would encourage one phrase that is, that separates you from. I don't just say I'm chasers in the photographer. Um, it does depend on the setting, but there's some, like J service on the co founder and CEO of Creative Life, which is the world's largest live streaming education company. Like, there's a just of one liner that any world's largest, they're like, Oh, damn. Like I'm an entrepreneur. That isn't That means you like tinkering your garage. You know, you gotta you gotta place, um, uh, sell it, sell more questions. Yeah. So, uh, I'm Adam Custom, custom furniture maker. Um, and you talked about bringing, you know, bringing awareness to your brand. Like you're the best in the world already. Um, I'm dealing with issues with treating a physical product to sell out, to sell, sure to sell to the rest of the country. Because so far, my target's been local. Is that a viable way of bringing awareness to what? You're Brink Teoh Se? Since I'm doing working with custom spaces, bringing that into the rest of the world home? Sure. I think you should know. Yeah, we meet your timing, but I'll kick it up by saying that if you want to be in a certain place in the ecosystem, like on a price, I would have my photograph, my furniture photographed in the most insanely hot environments you could possibly fathom. Restaurants, like become friends with the restaurant trade out of a cool chair that you made to be able to shoot there for a day. And when I'm the customer and I go to your website, I'm like, damn, look at all the peep for fancy. Ask people buying his fancy ass furniture. And I want to be like that. Therefore, I'm gonna buy that furniture like that lifestyle kind of like put it in the environment. That's awesome. If you put it in your little showroom in your garage, no one's going to give a shit. If you put it in a $1,000,000 home around a bunch of other really fancy stuff, they're gonna go it and what you think about, I think it's amazing advice. Um, you can separate yourself because remember, your competition is pretty. Um, they don't know what they're doing. For the most part, and I don't like to assume everyone else around me stupid. But most people are just not trained in marketing a couple things I'd recommend beyond that, uh, you're selling custom furniture. Why would someone want custom furniture over getting something at any other furniture? So there's something going on there. I want to understand what that buyer wants in my in my mind, the word coming to minus heritage. So I'm thinking of what differentiates myself. Why did why did I buy a bag? Go look at this brand called Gorka G H U R K A. Or Go look at Irma's for anyone in the fashion world. Why would you spend thousands on Hermes scarf over some other scarf you can get at T. J. Maxx? There's a reason and what it is partially interesting. T. J. Maxx. I mean, I love TJ Maxx. I shop there. I shocked her all the time. So there's like if you look at any these brands, they talk about heritage. Of course, their product is amazing, and they show the way they construct it like what? What tools to use. I'm sure it's amazing, and there's a reason that people would pay for that. And you can see it in the in the setting you can see the construction. You can see what it makes you feel that separates you totally and completely different from any retail store. Hears the word narrative. You have a narrative for your product and service. Like why? Why should I care? Well, this I, you know, this would has grown in my backyard. I harvested I millet down toe Yes, that's what tear like you have to tell that narrative. And that goes for the same as the is a wedding photographer or ah, uh, personal trainer. Like, why should I care that you're different? And I recommend a great narrative and a and a high price point Those two things that are really highly correlated with successful entrepreneur and artist. If you've got those two things together, that's awesome. Hey, Kate, I'm loving this. Is it okay if I just roll a little bit or you're gonna shut us down? Producers they are so good and generous to us. So I think you very much thank you. Keep rolling. She's shaking her head back there with someone getting in trouble. I want to tell you about a great a great website that has a great narrative to Five Mountains T. So there's a lot of tea that you can buy, right. Lipton tea. That's what I grew up. My parents drink that stuff. I'm like, Come on, five mountains T. It's I think it's based in San Francisco. If I'm not mistaken, I get that green tea ship to my place. It's pretty expensive. Why? Why The narrative they have about this tea is grown on this specific hill in whatever city. It only grows one month a year, blah, blah, blah. If you were to blind taste, test me, would I be able to tell? Maybe, Maybe not. But I like to know that I drink a lot of tea. I'm like, OK, like I work hard. How do I rationalize it? I deserve this tea. Maybe, maybe not. I just want it. And so the way that they constructed that narrative compare that which is a very high price point to a retail T like Lipton or even a mid tier T like a David's tea. All those narratives are totally different, and that is what you want to understand. Where do you fit on that spectrum. Yeah, there's a the Subaru buyers and a very different buyer than the Mercedes Buyer, and you decide who you were actually selling. Two. And if you're narrative around the Mercedes buyer and if you're competing on price like, then you're literally a commodity. Yeah, so that's what, like commoditization of something Means is like the lowest price, the best, most number of things, the lowest price. I highly encourage you to not do that. I don't wanna be salt. That is a race to the bottom. You need to be hired for your vision, for the narrative of your experience and so that your friends Franks. Oh, man, That's the dude that shot Jay Jay Z's last album Color, And he's going to shoot my port like there's a narrative there and the better. And the more authentically you can weave in that narrative through an experience. It's just like I can't resist it. Totally. All right. Other questions. Yep, back there in the back row, my name is Hotness. I'm a 19 year old Peter side student, built my own start up, and now we're convention capital. Great. And I'm curious. What are some of the inciteful things in persuasion or behavioral economics that you recently read. Well, I studied a lot of this. I studied, ah, social influence of persuasion. At Stanford, I study with B. J. Fogg, who invented the field of persuasive technology. So it's very fascinating to me. Some of the most interesting things are the ideas around food psychology, which have been incredibly fascinating. There's a great professor at Cornell who wrote a book called Mindless Eating. In my opinion, one of the best books on persuasion. And it doesn't matter if you're trying to persuade people everyone eats. Everyone has psychology around eating. This is a great example of the difference between what we should do and what we claim we do versus what we really. So why, you know, a lot of us believe that were very rational. Oh, I ate that because I like chicken and I'm hungry. Actually, you ordered that because of a variety of factors that were systematically engineered to make you order it. All kinds of things position the menus, price, the price, the narrative, the narrative. Absolutely. There are restaurants. Chicken. I'm at the chicken restaurant notice in expensive restaurants they spend a huge amount of time describing it, describing the provenance of the chicken you're eating, they literally say, uh, Acme Bird Chicken. They described the farm it came from. What the hell? Who cares what pharma came from? Those buyers care very discerning, but it's a very different buyer than the Denny's buyer against chicken. Check exactly. Chicken breast 19.6 dot 99. Totally if you have Never. If you've never gone to one of these restaurants, how would you ever know why they do it? By the way, I want to teach a new framework today that we've shared in one of my courses called Success Triggers. And it is called the D to see framework. There's a lot of people they say stuff like HBO. You're so stupid. Why don't you sell your individual episodes on ITunes? I would definitely buy that for 1 99 You think you're smarter than HBO? They probably know something you don't know. It's like saying Chase Jarvis, you're so stupid. What do you charge like all this money? Or why's this painting? It's red and it's a $1,000,000. That's so stupid. I could do that. D two c is disparagement to curiosity. It is so easy to disparage something we don't understand. I know because I do it a lot and I'm training myself to stop. If I were to see that modern art I'm like, this is so stupid a kid could do this D two c means I say what's going on here? What is going on? That I don't understand what is each be Oh no, that I don't And when I started doing this in my own business like I saw a lot of people doing some very weird things online like they would do webinars or people say like, I don't do webinar replays. I do these live classes and you cannot get them again. Doesn't matter where you live. I live in Siberia different. I don't care if it's important to you. You will be awakened. a.m. lot of UK students are awakened three and they wait for my classes. Oh, remained. You're not fair, blah, blah, blah Doesn't matter. I'm not looking to be fair. I want to help the best people. So people looking, they say, That's so stupid Ramidus so stupid. Why does he decides he's losing so much of money. D to see instead, If you trust someone, you might say, Why does HBO do that? Why does Chase Jarvis do that? And that unlocks a whole world of being able to learn from the world's best. And there's also an element of sort of like I'm comfortable defining my customer base, my price based my And if you're uncomfortable with it, no problem. There are other people down the street. Or I can give you a list of people that will call that would serve your would shoot your ad campaign or your you know, your brochure for much less than me. Just you're gonna get a very different experience. But I'm happy to recommend understanding is just like this. I'm already separating the experience that I can give versus the experience that that person can give and is based on price. And as soon as you try and appeal to everybody, you end up appealing to nobody because there was like, how much? Because how much do you have? Like that's I'm not interested in that, but like $10,000. So if I say I'm $10,000 like crash on the other 1000. But that dude who was gonna charge me $10,000 is still in my mind. I might think he's crazy, but the next time I do photo shoot and I'm her and I'm a company owner and I have a lot more money, who's going to stick in your mind to do that? Was $10,000 you like, huh? I wonder what I would get for that 10 grand. It's got to be something very, very different. We got one last one morning. Um, I was just wondering how you go about picking your perfect client because there's a range. You know what, the mom looking to get back in shape for the 20 year old guy that wants to get ripped. Great. So first I very comfortable stereotyping and theorizing. I write it down on paper and I write down the pros and cons of each. Ideally, I like to be in the market, but that's not necessary. Um, and then I talked to them and I do research, and as I discover what really drives them, what holds them back, I start to discover certain things that I think are really interesting to me or not. Part of it is just do I like them? Do I want to be in this market? For example, I could create a course on passive income. I could call it a passage. I could make millions, But the type of people that search for passive income are losers. They will drive me nuts. They'll write me horrible emails. You saw the with you. They won't even write y ou on. I'm like, I don't want that in my life. So personally, I don't like that. But also, from a business perspective, which audience is most likely to be most engaged, most profitable, most successful? Using this material, I'll give you an example. Here's a subtle one. A lot of people tell me, Remi, to create a productivity product. Why don't you create a productivity product? There's a reason. Even though we could sell a lot, make millions. We haven't created a productivity product. I'll leave it to you to think through why that is. But if you watch this course and if you watch the Creative Live course, you will easily discover the answer to that. There's a reason we are turning down millions of dollars and not creating a productivity course, which will be easy for us, and the answer is very subtle in selecting your audience both from a personal level and from a professional level as well.