Micing Demo Part 2


Studio Pass with Steve Evetts and Ben Weinman


Lesson Info

Micing Demo Part 2

Martin govern on the the chat rooms is asking kind of what you're getting mental set up is there a tonal difference between patting on the mic versus the premium? Um there's schools of thought with that yes, there definitely is and you have to and depending on the mike and depending on the padding circuitry, you really have to kind of play around with it and just see which one feels better for you like I said, I don't you know some people say, oh no never padded at the mike on lee used to do it at the pre empt and, you know, I mean some mikes you know, if you're taking a purist approach, I'm assuming that's that's what you're going to go for but to me like on the four fourteen that's what works? You know, I prefer it um I prefer at the mike and not on the pre empt cool if I can, you know, but like I said, some mikes don't have ah, I don't have a pad on them, so you have no choice it kind of forces your hand a little bit that's good and we'll just do the four go to the ribbon now trying...

to get back to the same set up I have before we'll set to seoul tomorrow again and last but not least there's been this one is ah just everybody bear in mind I know it's obvious to some people but maybe to others it isn't when they think microphone like especially a long cylindrical microphone people go immediately like talking to this end but this is a side address what's known as so it's it's it's ah it's not coming in the tips like this like on a for twenty one or on a fifty seven steve I take it the year pretty much an analog oriented type of guy here but you know that being said with the amount of digital modeling that's out there these days I wonder you know many to both you guys what would you say is the best guitar simulator in your experience and that comes from matt chamblee over on twitter is the best simulator yeah I mean you got maybe your favorite um what would you say then? I don't really this isn't this not gonna have a good answer? I think they're all getting pretty good I mean probably, you know, every time somebody comes out with one, probably someone comes out with one a little more interesting or fresh, but I tend to think that one of somebody who's has experienced when ample fires plays with um it's always going to be better than just the guy who turns on it turns it on any of them so far it's it's like I've gotten great sounds out of plug ins of simulators like the ax effects or whatever by tweaking it to sound right for the song. So again, going back to the philosophy that we've been talking about here, dummy, it doesn't have to sound like the amp, it just has to sound good. I'm not trying to when I play it, those things and I'm not comparing and seeing which one sounds exactly like my mark five I'm just trying I need this frequency range for my recording to town, where it needs to be a so I don't even think about which sounds better. I just try to see which one I can get, what I need out of for the situation so and that's sometimes too dependent on what's available or what you're looking for, but I think, yeah, like I think a lot of people say the campers great, a lot of people are saying the new acts effects are great, you can do the modeling directly in those things if you get a guitar tone from a record, he like our guitar tone you've gotten from a nap, I think they're all starting to really model really, really great. I don't particularly play with them as much as other people, so steve, do you have one that you've heard or in talking to some of the other producers that they've liked better like I said when I just did that beyonce but you and I just did that new problem record, but I'm my my opinions a little skewed because they honestly just use pot farm, the new hot form and the guitar tones we got on that record were really great yeah and that's just a plug in like inside the computer you know, I think there's also a couple ing with those am sins there's also these things of just cabinet sims that sometimes people use this one called was red red wires I think it's called if I'm not if I'm not mistaken, it could be wrong, but I think it's called red wires on they make a just a cabinet simulator it's just an impulse response of different guitar cabinets with mike's on him and uh, you could actually plug in head with output on it on and plug it into the get like literally used like a a like a load box and just gets it down to the recording out like a like a hot plate or something and just use the cabin singular and believe it or not, it actually sounds pretty good and there are these kind of combinations of the tear there's all these these and companies are often making these kind of units that have like some tubes in and whatever and they also have like usb outs and things you can like lennie makes one that records of direct and the tone and the tube tony simultaneously uh and then uh I know mason book he's working on something and yamaha has something really cool that's a two man that goes direct into the thing so there's all the combination I couldn't tell you what's best you know yeah I've used some of them that sound really good but like I said I don't know what's the best of this point you no longer willing to experiment anything yeah I think the user is more important than yes comes from your hands taking thinks something and go right current like the format and get to work speaking with let's try that again it's a little hard for me to tell I wish actually honestly you had a pair of headphones to like kind of make sure I wasn't really overloading the my pre but let's see what happens all right so now we've got and this is again this is the base shoot out this is you know and I have roughly approximated where we're at so here's a here's our differences here's for fourteen this is fifty seven and for fourteen is slightly I'm just going toe ever so quickly gain this up all those there's there's clip gain now okay you do that yeah that it's like cuba can't control here's the difference you hear the difference the former teens way round our way forward brunch that classic mid range that bright upper mid mid kind of thing I'm normally used to having I wonder if I said it wrong with the switch I might have said it tio two s supposed to em it's possible have to look but uh and I might have had the position a little bit off from a pair of the other guys but normally I'm used to having having a little more bottom in but even back and forth you hear these two theme that's the four twenty one fifty seven combo and usually like I said the forty one is a little more bottom and little more scoops there's the ribbon exactly what I was talking about how the ribbon it is a little more mellow on the top end again riven with the fifty seven probably be a good combo it kind of fills in you know or the or the river or the revolver that be really good because compared to it compared to the to the ribbon before twenty one sounds really scooped now when you come that's a good combo I mean they're all good commas but that's just basically showing you you know as a again we always save the control thing but same same basic part same situation just what what what off the bat you know like what would you what would be your go to thing right off the bat like your preference actually, I really liked the four fourteen at the beginning it just it sounded like it had just about a little bit of everything yes and it's pretty balanced I mean, most of our records is a four fourteen and fifty seven planets with different that might positionings yeah that's it pretty much right so it's just again it's just you do that if you had to control you had in an ideal world you had all of them set up and you know the reason the only reason why I switched everything out was because I was trying to show it in the same chain if we had if we would have had all the mikes on just into the mackey which I would have probably in retrospect probably would've been the best thing to do just for the basics showing of it and then quickly go do do do do do tio flip back and forth and then even working on a if we had him all set up at the same time we could just quickly they were all on sound one cabinet on one one on each speaker which is gonna flip back to um right, so yeah, what gets you closer to the idea you started but that's really the crux of it it's like what am I hearing at the am now which which mike is going to capture the closest thing to what I'm feeling when I stand in front of the amp and you start with that and that could be your basic thing then you deal with positioning, which was we'll get into tomorrow and then there's basic mike techniques obviously the single mike that goes without saying these are all pretty self explanatory well, at least the first two anyway are single mike set up to or mike to mike's or more one on each speaker single mike set up and this is going back to the nick to your, uh, question this is my go to starting point right off the center of the dust cone like right at the edge right when you can see where the desk kony's meets this meets the actual code of the speaker right off right on the edge of the dust cover pretty much mid height and then you want a brighter which will show tomorrow we're sweeping through it you want a brighter go to the senator you wanted warmer go to the right, go towards the outside then you've got to mike's or more basically all starting in the same exact position one micah need speaker that's a very common technique with the figure of four twelve per se you know, for fourteen fifty seven you could we could do all four mikes, you know I mean, if we wanted to and figure out and blended to and when then also figuring out the phase between them one of the ways to do that say a cz part of a control you had four and I've seen this before where people do for fifty seven one on each speaker boom boom boom boom okay cell and talking about phase what about we want to make sure that in a technical in a perfect world let's get them all perfectly in face with each other the fourth forty four fifty seven's so we're making sure that um the distance from the grill to the grow cloth of the grilled the mike to the grow cloth of the cabinet are the same I mean, you could get really technical and use a ruler good measure everyone you know you get super nerdy with it I don't necessarily do that I'll just use like you know, a finger rule one finger to finger three fingers that's basically my rule do like three fingers ok three fingers the singer's three fingers three fingers very simple you know you don't need to get that nerdy and middle this one's two point four inches this one's two points you know that's getting into minutia that you don't need to get into honestly even a question from the chat room that kind of applies to the two mikes are more situation drag lands was asking essentially about how you choose to put you know the mikes on the speakers, but more importantly, I think stew is actually asking backing on that like if you're only choosing one microphone on let's say multiple speaker cabinet how do you choose which one which mike which speaker you're gonna put with that's a good question because they all do sound slightly different I generally have been um I'll do a thing honestly, we're all put the output of the amp super low and have him play I know use my ear and I will go quickly listen like this one this one this one? Hmm this one sounds good I literally just on a gut reaction just like quickly just have I mean, obviously you want to protect your ear so you don't want it loud, you keep it low enough and you but you can get a general feel even though low volume you get get a general feel for the tone response of each speaker because they can tend be they can vary a decent amount, especially older speaker cabinets because sometimes they're a little more. Some speakers are a little older and a little more of tolerance and they're worn in and they sometimes when they're warning they sound better right? And so I'll just quickly use my ear against the cabinet and just hear it and just listen and go now let's, try this one in the same kind of thing the same control just like real quick play and just move around and just listen in that one feels the best to me, okay, let's, start with that one and then start with that one position the same position I'm saying the starting president starting point that doesn't have to be your starting point that's my starting point, but pick a point it cannot win it right? Um, so yeah, like I said, measuring the if you're doing for mike's or two mikes or whatever, I'll just kind of, you know, that's all things with control being the same it's being the same microphone, but even with, say, like a four fourteen fifty seven even though where the diaphragm is sitting in slightly different, like the grill, like the fifty seven, the actual diaphragm was back a little further than it is in the casing of a four fourteen cause you think of the grill, but that's not really where the diaphragm the mic is it's behind that so you can kind of see where it is and you just kind of like, you know, approximately anyway um, but in a person in a technical, in a super techie way of doing it, to get to get him in phase perfectly, a way to do it is to again reverse the phase of one of the lot of people do this this is like a test they do they'll they'll take like you know and in terms of like the revamping thing or they'll take a a white noise signal like white noise generated they can take it from a popular pro tools and send on output and then run to the amp, which is also part of ramping which we'll get into tomorrow um but they'll send white noise, which is if you don't know it's basically all frequencies is just just down there you know you've everybody's seen it back in the day, the tv when it's you know you're on a channel that dead and there's just coach where you turn on the tv when there's no signal and it does that white noise you run white noise through the cabinet, flip the phase of one of the mikes so it's reverted complete reverse of the other one hundred eighty degrees flipped out of phase and move the mikes until they get the most cancellation that's a way of putting something in phase that's a very easy trick you flip the phase on one of the two things that you're doing ceo maybe you flipped the phase on b and you move it around till the sound disappears the most it's not going to ever be it's not especially with two different mike's it's never going to be you're never going to get complete cancellation because the characterises the mike and everything it's going toe the response is going to be different like I said, you don't have the control, but if you had to fifty seven's you could move it around till you get the most cancellation and then foot back around then that's that's the most you're going to get those mikes in phase yeah, but that's the nerdy way of doing it I just I don't do that so much I use my years I'll just like move the mikes against each other with the guitar sound what sounds the best or you could just without white noise, you could flip the phase again and kind of do it but it's going to be different because there's two there's different variables with a guitar sound supposed to white noise, which is everything is you know, it's broad spectrum awesome thank you yeah, you got it on then there's on and off axis on again what we'll show you tomorrow we'll show you like getting the best position would say the main mike and then you take a second mike, a lot of people do it with two fifty seven's or two of the same mike, but a lot of times I'll do it with a fifty seven and four fourteen for fourteen being the main mike and the fifty seven being off axis a little bit like a forty five degrees but they're basically pointing at the same point whatever you find that best that sweet spot on the speaker, the other that's your position you fix that and then you put the four fourteen another fifty seven in on that same position and there's an example of it this is from when I was working with the cure in london actually, um that's it right there exactly it that's a for fourteen and a fifty seven four fourteen's on access and a fifty seven's often access there's a different about that cone of the speaker's going out that way so the air is coming off the cone differently and the sounds hitting differently than is coming straight it's great and different but it's also it's red creating any q and this is a thing this is a thing we're talking about they're not perfectly in phase not even by a long shot but this is a very common, very common guitar recording technique on off access even on the like on pot farm inside pro tools uh or and farm the older hsan well literally there's a combination will say fifty seven will say on access on dh there actually is a selection will say on off access and that's what that isthe yeah and that's it from the top you can see it and this one they're they're much closer this one is much closer to on access then then sometimes I do sometimes I'll do it where it's literally tilted that's a fourth twenty one on an orange cabinet um but that's a that's a photo example is on off access type of style of making and then yeah also close an ambien and I can just demonstrate this this is a very simple thing for adding maybe a little bit of dimension and realism uh I often will have one or two might say on the main set up and may be on the same track sometimes on a different track but that's also but it's also committing it's not because I don't want it I don't want to blend you think but it's literally to get to create a space for the guitar in the room we're in panning so say you have a guitar left guitar right so I will take say off my my set up that's close might and then I literally will take a mike and I put it on people will put it at speaker level back further but I tend to do this I basically put it at head height because you're so that way you're getting a sense of what the guitar players when they're standing in front of rampant are feeling this this is kind of capturing a sense of that a little bit and I'll sometimes I'll blend this in with the track to one track sometimes like I said, I'll blend it I'll put this to a separate track because you have say guitar left qatar right? So the guitar left the close mike guitar that's these but the mba mike you put on the opposite side so you're actually creating even though it's pan to the left you're creating the depth q by hearing the river we're hearing the ambience in the right side even if it's not as loud as the other one you can set it lower recorded lower whatever but so you get an aunt a creation of a space this way and then the opposite for the guitar right with space on left so you're giving a little bit of not just hard panning in a vacuum you're getting a sense of space in the room so that's another technique and then I can't really show that won the the open back cabinet because we don't really have a camera back here so I can't really show this but I'm wondering if we can maybe tomorrow somehow set this up so we can show that somehow but so the open back cabinets so you basically do the same thing with your position here and then since the oath the cabinet is wide open and sound filling out the back you're sticking a mike behind it and capturing some of that sound that's spilling out the amp and it gives it a creating another saying an openness or a sense of space with that guitar cabinet so do you use it like do you ever use a phase checking plug in when you're like mike in the back of the cabinet, the front of the cabinet and it's different you just listen to it or look out and listening to look at it, listen to it mostly listened to it like I said because I grew up making records on tape you listen to things I didn't I didn't have you know, for the first half of my career I never looked at what the way form look like I just you know, that's how every record was made up until you know the ninety in the mid nineties is like you listened you didn't look and you use your years and use your instincts and that's it all right? So I think that covers pretty much every set up and you heard the differences between the four mikes you saw some of these positions and like I said I showed this is just another one it's for for twenty one on an orange cabinet that's definitely off that on that off axis put off center it's going more towards the outside on dh then uh ok so quickly die signal a lot of people have an option and I'll just show you guys really quick so uh they record with that before they go to an amp, they'll patch through this. This is a direct box, so that just takes the basically the signal right off the guitar before anything. So you're basically tracking into, say, pro tools along with ah, you're am sound everything and you have the d I going to a separate track like that? I normally don't do this as a thing for an option to re amp later on because I'm a firm believer in committing, so a lot of people do. This is a very common thing, and but they so they'll they'll still get their guitar sound everything, but they also have to give themselves a safety net by putting a d I signal down and you don't have to hear it. You can once you get the level, you just said it and then, you know, you get assigned the output of it to like a bus or somewhere, so it doesn't come through the speakers. You don't even ever hear it it's just their, um and uh, so it just gives you an option for revamping later on, uh, it has its place for editing. I've done. I have tracked a few times on dea d I things, but I'm not using it actually for, uh, for the sound I'm using it if I have to edit it guitar's if there's like a little technical thing or there's because there's a really distorted and you're tryingto if you if you need to like here in sick, if you have to edit a guitar and you go, I can't really hear where the downbeat is because there's too much distortion that's that was already there, you can see it at least at least it gives you ah guy to move the guitar to the right place and I'm going to editing with that kind of thing later, because again it's not taking the thing and putting it right to the line or putting it right to where the kick trim is it's moving towards it it's just that that's it's like a little sign post and you least know where you are and you go towards until it's still, then to your ear till it sounds right until it feels right in the transition on the guy's gonna be wake obvious way. We're obviously clear where the guitar player was hitting the downbeat or you know the accent, so it enables you to see where maybe when the guitar is heavily affected, you know just how far off it is and whether or not it's worth editing, making him do it over whatever so exactly jewel, I mean, it also has this place for you know efficiency when you are say I mean perfect example how many times on the last record and on record before option paralysis that uh you know, we're just in like crunch mode and we're like we're going we're going we're going doing a lot of work because I worked a lot with the singer and work with really getting the vocals right? And so I'm doing so much work with this with greg with their singer and you know, he's working on like little spicy like extra guitar parts of something like that and he would be upstairs on the second set up and I would give him a version of this of the sessions bound status of well, I've given stems because you're working in cuba is not pro tools and so he could he could be tracking some direct stuff and like I said, I don't use revamping jet generally but sometimes if you're in a time crunch and you need somebody else working on another set you know, basically you could run to set up so I could be working on vocals and he could be working a little extra guitars without access to aunts were working just with an am sam just not even for the final sound or getting a final sound but using a c I and then I can go well, you know what I want to run it through like your normal am chain but give me the d I so then you know, I can just think really happened like thailand guitar pedals and everything and get the sound later on so it's great for efficiency that it is a great safety net for that we'll show that tomorrow more but even just going back to the frequency stuff we're talking about with miking using it as an additional tone to blend is something we do very often very so it's a big part of, you know, playing the direct tone back into what we're talking about now with mike placement e keeling using mikes and using guitar tone, toe layer and bland we use the direct a lot yet and for example, a actual tone deaf javy kind of sounds now when you solo it, I'm just saying, where is the track? Ok, here is so there's two there's actually two sounds going on here there's this sound and there's this sound there's the die we're using that in the sound so you put together is that this kind of light striding kind of and on this one it's funny as the song as the climax of this part happened in the song I took the de icing on I was actually just riding the mic preempt and I was slowly distorting the mic preempt on the clean sound and started blending in so as the part grew and built as he was playing, I was just literally turning the pre empt on the mic up on the d I where is getting local for second that that creates a much more clean, percussive, precise sounding itself without any capital, and sometimes we often blind that in with amps and things like that, especially when there's so much going on, yeah, that definition it just even if you don't necessarily hear it right there and it just you could feel it, you could feel it adds, especially in such a dense, such a sonically dense, you know, mix like the these guys have, it tends to yeah, it adds a little bit like you could hear it, like I said, even if you don't even necessarily feel where that is, but you kind of just gives it this like a sense of urgency underneath it that it's, you know, and even the next part right here, jab these air straight up, I think, clean jabs theme so main guitar, the main rhythm guitar is going like this straight d I would actually e q on it, we actually took the die this time they said, yeah, and like I used a ton of, like, top nd chu and, like he's, just adding that in layering that but you here by yourself feeling what is that like, you know, that's nothing by the whole was greater than the sum of its parts when you hear that and then you hear clarity that's why we're talking about like, thinking ahead chess moves thinking ahead like how we're going to build this to create the vibe that we want in the end it's not about making one guitar tone town is processed and biggest possible so that how we're gonna blend everything you could have everything used the mikes used the direct use different amps to then build this thing that's greater than the whole sum of the parts the wholesome holds great in the sum of the parts yeah, so you know, you should now like at least have all everything picked out, which is basically your and guitar sound that's going to be unlike, say your record but on the track that you're doing right there because, like I said, you're always adjusting to the track uh going to committing there's something wrong speak now or forever hold your peace or you're gonna be redoing it later you know, fix it before you track um be prepared no your craft you know the part you're about to record leave room for improvisation we always dio leave room for happy accidents because so many times during the during the creation process yes, there's, that little moment of discovery, that he does something, you know, he's grabbing the wrong, threatened. All of a sudden, he screamed, it's like, oh, what would you just do? What is that part that's? Awesome! We got to keep doing that like you know you, we love those moments. Those are the moments you live for that's when you're writing to all of a sudden, somebody does something. Were you going what you just d'oh? Oh, my god, let's, do that and springs up a whole new thing, so always leaving room for happy accident, because they're the best.

Class Description

Learn how to get perfect guitar tones in the studio during this 10-hour class on tracking guitars. In this course, Steve Evetts (Saves The Day, Suicide Silence) and special guest Ben Weinman (Dillinger Escape Plan) dive deep on everything you need to know about creating and capturing perfect guitar tones.

Getting great guitar tones is all about the details. Steve and Ben cover how to select the right guitar, strings and picks, how to choose the right head and cabinet combo, and how to get a great tone. From there, they go through the process of selecting and placing mics. Finally, they show you how to track guitars the professional way (no cutting corners— ever!) and edit the tracks so you’ve got everything you need for a flawless mix.


Joshua Rathbun

Good basic knowledge, which delves into more detailed stuff later on in the course.