Shantell Martin: Freedom to Express Who We Are
hell over one. Good afternoon. I'm guessing. Good afternoon. But, hey, you could be in New Zealand. And maybe it's morning. Ah. Want to welcome you to Creativelive. I'm your friend, Chase. Jarvis, You're hosting your guide for the next 60 minutes where we are having another one of my favorite conversations with the world's top creators on before I reveal who that is. I mean, wait a minute. Why am I pretending? You know who it is, but I've got a couple of housekeeping housekeeping points before we dive in. And that is I want to welcome you when Wherever you are coming from today. Ah, and start off by. I'm looking at the comments. I know we're streaming to creativelive dot com slash tv and to Facebook and Instagram and, gosh, probably three or four their platforms. So I'd love to know where your coming in from and where you are in the world so I can share with our esteemed guest, um, that there truly is a global audience tuning in from around the planet, and also that allows you This com...
ment function allows you to impact the outcome of this show. So I will make it my goal to share. If there are popular questions, or if you have things that you want to know, please ask them and all bubble those up for our guests so that she can address them. If it's something that I think that the whole community will be interested in, so looking forward to having you participate and help us steer the conversation today. And speaking of today, I want to get to our guests, which is why I know you're here, Sean Tell Martin is an amazing visual artists that I have long admired, and she's best known for a large scale black and white drawings and collaborations with artists and institutions, including Kendrick, Lamar, the New York City Ballet, Tiffany and Company Puma. Alright, Knox got Art Gallery, the Museum, a museum of the Moving Image and the Moment and her upcoming exhibition New now opens in New York City. The New Britain that Museum of American Art later this year, her first art book in collaboration with any publishing called Lines is out. It is incredible. We're gonna talk about that a little bit today, and with all of that green, it brings me great joy and pleasure and excitement. Ah, to welcome to the show today, Chantelle. Welcome from Jersey City from New York. I like from Jersey City, where I'm in Seattle today, which is as we were talking just before we went lives. I've mostly been here since March 9th, which is the longest I've been in one state since I was in Ah, junior high school, um, but were on the opposite side of the country's thanks for tuning in in your evening time. I appreciate it. Fantastic. And, you know, I'm not sure, you know, but there's two of you on the screen, so I don't know which one to the fact that either one you know, like I come in two flavors. Um, but just so you know, speaking of where we are today in New York, we've got Ah, well, sure, England UK is in the house. They want you to know that Maryland, United States, Japan, Carefully paying Japan, Monaco, Mesa, Arizona, Michigan, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Darwin, Australia. So to say we have a global audience is an understatement. And they're all here for you. So thank you for showing up. I'm grateful. That's a lot of my favorite places there. Japan, New Zealand, Australia. So that sounds good. Nice logins. Yeah. And speaking of Japan, that's a great place for us to start, because, uh, I know enough about you to be dangerous, but not it. Not enough to speak for you. And that is why we're here today. So I'm here. I'm curious. Ah, what I know about your background is born and raised in the UK, and I've heard you describe that bringing is not really serving you. So at some point, you jumped ship and went to Japan. And so I'm wondering if you can give us some background and context. A for those who don't know your sort of origin story, your background in the UK and and take us from that background too. Going to Japan, Speaking of Japan and why? Well, that journey could take hours. Now I keep it quite sure, but no. Essentially, I'm from London on from South East London on I found myself living in Japan for five years on. You know, it's kind of a long story in journey of how I got there. But Sensini No, I kind of grew up living life. Follow in kind of this rule of saying yes to yes and no to know and not really knowing where that would take me. Andi, you know, I grew up in London and South East London in this lovely place for Thames me. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's kind of the backdrop for movies like Clockwork Orange and TV shows like Misfits. And, you know, one of these massive, like project Council states, You know, that feeling like the late 19 sixties. And so that's where I grew up. Andi tens need at that time of me growing up very white, racist, working class. You know, a lot of the things that come with that at that time. Very homophobic, very racist. All of those things. And then there's me, you know, Brown with an AK prior kind of growing up in this place where I didn't feel like I fit. You did on. I think for a lot of outsiders like myself, kind of art is a path that we can follow where we're able to express ourselves. But we're able to be creative. Andi, lucky enough, you know, I was able to find that path and follow it to the point where it got me to a place like Japan was the, um, I think there's so many people in the world can identify with not fitting in on one different axes or another. You talk about, you know, being brown and having an Afro. That's one way. But there's lots of different ways that people don't fit in. And I'm curious if you found your journey inward to be to be medicine for that, or was your move to Japan required in order for you to stay saying because so many people at home right now might be in that similar situation, but that might not be able to get up and get out to Japan. So a Can you talk a little bit about your internal journey and then be what you were, what you did in order to, um, not even conception, but to literally sort of escape those confines and the things that made you, you know, I feel like an outsider. It's funny, you know, growing up in Thames meeting and many, many, many, many years later that, you know, show misfits is beyond that because I think you know, find in this path to art school is where you end up with people who are outsiders for many different reasons. You know, the music. They listen to the way that they choose to dress the things that they're interested in, a way that they think about things and so kind of finding this path to our school, being surrounded completely by a bunch of misfits, of bunch of outsiders. I know people who look differently. You think different on. I think, in that place it was the first place I understood that was safe in a way, in that environment being different and celebrated. Unlike you know, a lot of schools and places that we grow up in. You have that pressure to fit in with everyone else. And for me, you know, exterior Lee. I just I couldn't even try to fit in, you know? So, you know, I love that, you know, going to art school was this place where I ended up with everyone that didn't fit in on, you know, in a way, there is medicine to that. There's medicine to understanding that you have a place, because if you like it or not when you're younger, you want to fit in. You know that there is a part of you that wants to be accepted. There's a party that wants to be a part of, and then when you're no, it's much. It's so rewarding when later in life you find your place is not to fit in. And there's so many people like you and there is such a medicine in that. And how did that play a role in you deciding to leave? Was it the number one thing? Was it like the fact that I don't fit in either my family or my community that caused you to leave? Or was there some different aspiration at work or some combination? You know, when I look back, you know you have this power of rejection and I look back now I'm like, Oh, well, that was my first fastball in life. You know, my first passport was not because that always made me look to the outside and kind of back then we didn't have the Internet, didn't have social media. We didn't really, you know, Have you been it'd to imagine beyond the kind of streets that we were walking around it and so not fitting in. Was that possible to imagine a future outside of that reality outside of that Well on, you know, that got me to art school. But then, beyond that, you know, I go through that whole system and I graduate from a very respectable fancy art school in London called Central ST Martin. And then when I did, there was another barrier, another chapter where I realized, like, Oh, us basically a bunch of nepotism on. I worked really hard to get here. And now there's another barrier. There's another blockage. There's another subtle way of me not being out. Achieve and imagine what I could on DSO at that time. Japan seemed like most foreign on Mr Call on new place to imagine. So I decided to go there, and I initially got interested in Japan because in my school it was very international. So there's a lot of Japanese students that on I became that kid that hung out with Japanese kids, you know, just really got interested in Japanese art, music and film. And there are from the Edo period on Go obsessed about it. So when I graduated, I feel. You know what? I'd rather go to that magical, mystical place over there and figure it out, then staying here kind of knowing what my path is and feeling like there was a dead end. Because the thing is, is when you're a part of these types of systems, especially if you're born into them, you become a part of it. You like it or not? You a part of you accepts it and plays into it. Whereas, you know, going to somewhere like Japan was a totally new place where the rules that were there are there at that time felt like they didn't apply to me. And what did you do specifically to? I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of, like, escape velocity. Like, how does one from South east in London or whether you consider that the the sort of, um, roots or maybe even art school? Um, how did you like tactically? How did you just get on a plane, or did you have some connections that you make a friend? Or was it like I bought a plane ticket and through my stuff in a in a backpack and away I went to figure it out. Yeah, it was a little bit off. It's like a big giant jigsaw puzzle when you're trying to put the pieces together on at that time. You know, the way that people went to Japan, it through the jet program, which was teaching English program. I applied for that. I didn't get it. So I looked for other ways to get into Japan. And at that time, it seemed to be the only way was through on English language. Who? Teaching English. So I actually I went Teoh. Okay. I don't really talk about it much, but I went to night college and I got a certificate in English language teaching, which is called the shelter on. That was interesting, cause I'm so dyslexic. Uh, but I took this night course in teaching English, and actually that taught me that, you know, you could be quite dyslexic, but there are ways of maneuvering around that, you know, you known your weaknesses within your I guess you're your structure off. This Lex is, um there's ways around that. So I learned teaching this through this Celtic ALS and then with that found the job teaching English on and then packed my bags and go on without God. I think that's really interesting and also very hopeful for you to share because so many people think, Well, I just packed up my bags and landed in Japan and didn't have a plan, and then it didn't work out, so I came home. But when I whenever I asked that question like, what was? How did you actually do it? Whether and this seems to apply to so many things were the transitioning from one job to another from one you know, cover path to another or one country to another, that there was a set of, even even if they were sort of, ah, simple or crude or obvious. There is a little bit of a plan in place, and it sounds like you had just enough to go on. And then I love this little linear path that run here. So then you land in Japan, and presumably you goto work at this job. But you secured before you left. Something tells me that the culture, I guess, made because I've watched a lot of videos and read a lot about you, but the culture and you know again. Japan is so you know, there's so much presence. There's a lot of respect and appreciation for craft and design and beautiful, simple things. Was that a part of the reason? And if so, did you find that to be true when you got there? And how did that impact you? I think quite simply initially, it was just this foreign place that was so different from where I was from. And like I said, like the rules, they didn't apply to me. And also it didn't really matter what I waas where I was from the was your Eva Japanese or your foreign. But there was an interesting reality shock in a way, because, you know, this young girl from South east London, from tens meat freshly out of art school gets on a plane and go sea Japan, on my teaching job is in the middle of the countryside, in the Goya, in a playschool Komaki. She not that many foreigners there. No one really speaks English that no one really looks like me. That and actually I had a horrible time. You know, this is the first time I'm living alone. I'm working full time I'm in the middle of the countryside. I don't speak the language. I don't know what I'm eating. And also I can't call anyone or contact anyone because we don't have smartphones then. And so I remember this experience of going into a 7 11 on trying to communicate someone that didn't speak English and someone that didn't speak Japanese at that time to buy a phone call. And so that was like a whole ordeal. And then you finding me by a phone card and then you look at the back of the phone card and it's all in Japanese. So then platelets, phone card to a phone box and you try and call this operator who only speaks Japanese. You know, like two hours later, you kind of in tears because you can't get through, and then you find any get through because you crack this puzzle and you have, like, five or 10 minutes, and then it's like a baby. So, you know, it was definitely not an easy transition going there on their also, just having people kind of stare atyou appointed. You and I also had a stalker at the time. You know, I was living in this apartment on the second floor on there could be times why go outside my balcony, Maybe an ashtray full of cigarettes, and then there'll be footprints up up the pole. So I had a stalker that was naturally climbing up onto my balcony, sit in there all night and smoke it. Um, And then I got the police around on the police just said, Hey, you know, your big your tool You can defend yourself like Monday nine, and there's no problem. Um, and that's actually when I packed my bags for the second time and I moved to Tokyo without a job without a plan, just knowing that, you know, I didn't want to kind of risk just being that I'm tall enough to defend off any crazy you know, people that might be sleeping on or smoking on my balcony. My gosh, how horrible. Yeah, interesting experience. But, you know, I think at that time, no, I felt so alone on. I think that was reflected in the things that happened to me or the you know, the situation. So I ended up in or even the work that I created at that time. But in a way, I think that's the experience I was looking for, because when you're you feel completely and utterly alone, that's when you really get to discover and find out yourself who you are because you don't have people around you telling you you should be or what you should be doing and you're not living up to any of those stereotypes. And then you don't even have those forms of communication where you stay in touch at that time. And so I think the you know, in a way it just beat out of me everything that everyone talked me off, How I should be to the point where I kind of depleted all that where I could build myself up again. Ah, that I love the metaphor of tearing down and and being sort of reborn. And I remember also, is there something in your past where you had some teachers that told you that you would not be successful at art or that you didn't have talent? Or I remember seeing or reading something about that? And I'm wondering if there's a little bit of was there a chip on your shoulder mentality or was that just that. Just a really painful blow. And how did you respond to both? You know, anyone suggesting what you could or couldn't be. And perhaps it was paralleled this experience that you had in Japan of deciding who you were going to be in your own words, on your own terms, and wonder if there was a connection between those two moments or or if they were just separate. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't call it a chip in your shoulder. You know, I call it just reality in the systemic society system that exists. You know, I'm from a low income, working class family where no one finish school. No one around me finish Well, you know, my friends at that time didn't finish school on dso. You know, me being someone that actually went to school, there aren't really any expectations. There aren't really any mentors or people to look up to. There aren't really any people to live like Oh, they went asking. So you can. So you know what happened at that time is you know, I went to school on its in England. You finish school, maybe you go to university and I had interesting. Maybe going to art school. My aunt teachers simply said, Tell him Don't apply because you won't get it. Andi, you know, for a long time that did bother me because they didn't have the imagination for me to do something unexpected. Or it was just such a long line of people where I'm from that haven't achieved something like that. So why would they imagine that I could achieve? You know, when I look at it now, I'm just like, Oh, maybe that teacher was just being responsible or realistic, because when you don't show people who they can be or what they can do when you don't give people the tools to succeed, When you reserve those tools four people from privilege from certain types of schools, from certain types of income from certain types of background, then why would you expect some girl from Thames meet? Who's the first person in the founding finish school to go to art school and apply to it and get it, you know, And so for a long time I was kind of angry at that interaction. But then now I look back and I'm like, Oh, well, that is part of the systemic system off the society that we have in places like England where he was just simply being realistic. Well, I'd like to shift gears from that that moment where you were there, that that window of time rather when you were as you talked about getting programmed or the idea that everyone else had for you and shift gears to clearly you created a world of possibility for yourself. And before I go on, I do want to, you know, give a shout out to we've again couple of extra countries. Ah, Canada, Brazil, Um more UK in the house. India, Pennsylvania People are cheering you on from around the world and saying Thank you for being such an inspiration to that point about about the inspiration and the inspiration er that you are. At some point you clearly shifted gears And, um, was it in Tokyo where you where you started to feel more alive and in the driver's seat was that later in New York, help us sort of put a bow on this, this sort of pre you identifying and maybe making a living as an artist instead of sort of piecing together the, you know, ah, view of yourself and a view of what was possible and an income and all these other things. This there's transition phase, if you will. Was that completed in in Japan and Tokyo? Or did that really come to life in New York using analogy, the driver's seat? So what does that look like once? What do you mean by being in the driving? See, um, I guess what I meant by it was, um, shifting gears. Another terrible metaphor. Um, where I said that maybe that's why I'm struggling. Yeah, I guess. Teoh, um she lets see what's the right way of thinking about this? Um, going from the feelings that you had being an outsider because you cited being an outsider in your hometown and then also the phone card. We're not knowing the language and not being able to adapt to the to the, um the the communication across the telephone, for example. And then, at some point, I'm wondering, was it one incident or was it a series of incidents where ah, it seemed like you were able to be in charge and the's ah, the outside forces. You, um, surmount to them and were able to communicate and were able to break through. Is there a moment? A series of moments? You know anything's The suit is a moment, but I just one word just keeps coming to mind the naturist, the word of progress from this, you know, when you simply put 1 ft in front of the other and you keep doing that, it's very grass roots. But at some point, you make a breakthrough on you. Make some traction on you, create some opportunities. And, you know, I haven't analogy for that, but I'm on a boat. Andi, you know, so imagine I get in this little robo on I wrote to the middle of a gigantic lake on I throw out my anchor on and then I stand up in this rowboat and I looked in that rock, and I wrote and I work and work and work on. You see, these massive ripples appear on these vehicles are so big that they disappear from me. But eventually they come back to me in the form off jobs and opportunities, collaborations and ideas. Andi, if I start rocking I stopped working. The ripples stopped doing their thing and they stopped kind of effective, you know, kind of have this motion. So I think the answer to that question is that there hasn't been a moment or a time or in a then is being about consistency and being consistent for many, many, many, many years. And, you know, in Japan I was there for five years, and yet so the first year I couldn't speak Japanese, and in the second year I could understand a little bit more Japanese on. By the third year, I could speak a little bit of Japanese by a four year. I got to really use that Japanese and also the same with the Are you know, when I got there, the I R is creating was like very much for me, and it was very much in this space. It was about me kind of getting to know myself or find myself Onda more. I was there, I got to look up and I got to find the opportunities to share what I was created. And I think that's just the perspective on the journey of my career as a whole. It's very, very grass roots. It's about putting ft in front of the other and kind of having a good intention behind that and having this idea that I'm moving away from something dark. And I know on moving towards something very light and positive, no wind support, and I can see that within my work. When I look back at my old work, it's very dark, is very lost, its very depressed. It's quite helpless, and I look back at that working. I'm like, Wow, who was this person? They were, you know, they were so lost and they have no idea the future that should have been or it's. But I put 1 ft in front of the other, and now the work is very light, whimsical, positive. Andi has a benefit for other people in that way, too. That's much more beautiful. Ah, way of thinking about it. Then the driver's seat painted a beautiful a beautiful picture there. Um, Ash Jensen from Facebook, says Beautiful. Um, Lynn Pfosten from Desperado, California says, Thank you so much for that, and Frances is an amazing story of creative success. So you this journey of also learning to speak the language. It underscores that point you just made of continual progress. It wasn't like I feel like what we read in the newspapers and what we compare ourselves to is like, Oh, I moved to Japan and then I became fluent in six months because I took an advanced program. And then everything was bright and sunny, and I just you know, that's what we see on Instagram, maybe, or what we read in the in, um, pop culture. But what people are attracted to and and thank you for sharing the reality is this idea of putting one front 1 ft in front of the other. Um, take us to New York now. You? Yeah, take us to New York, where you are now and take Take us from Tokyo to New York. Yeah, it's funny. I'm even Jersey City pup. I live in New York many years, So I on this quiet, funny trajectory in the sense of going from London to Tokyo to New York to Jersey sitting. But I love that. So I moved to Jersey. What? I moved to Jersey a couple years ago, but before that, I moved to New York in 2000 and nine. So, you know, also know, probably the best time to move to America. It's kind of mineral recession on the food crisis here. Uh, I'm ut from Japan at that time because I met some Americans in Japan realized that, you know, Americans weren't that bad. You know, stereotypes do exist them on in the UK In here we have stereotypes about South American Onda, So why would I want to go? But I made some incredible friends in Japan from America who got me interested, intrigued by New York and Boston. So in 2000 and eight, I came to New York for a holiday, and I loved it. On There was such a contrast from Japan, Japan and Tokyo is this place I love. But you could walk out of your house and be out for 12 hours, and not one person would speak to you because you know, there's a culture off not wanting to have confrontation with anyone. So the best way it's not have confrontation with anyone is not to involve yourself of anyone, especially if they're foreigner. There could be situations of misunderstanding, but then come into New York in 2000 and eight. Yeah, I bump into people, people were talking on the street, in the retro, in the park, in the coffee shop on They didn't want anything. It was just interaction. It was conversation. It was this cliche of New York, You know, the energy that people survive. Andi, I was so ready for a change because I think in Japan I found my feet and I found myself. I found my voice. I found my philosophy on I was willing to use those things on dso went back to Japan. I applied for an artist visa, Uh, used kind of my savings. Teoh, find a lawyer in New York and do that whole application on six months later, I found myself in New York. At that time, I realized what a mistake I made because, you know, New York on vacation is actually a very different thing on New York. Want you move that. And so you know, it does have those things that energy people. But also I very quickly found out If no one knows where you are in New York, you know, Cathy on everyone is an RC is trying to do what you will do it on this career that I created for myself in Japan didn't exist in New York. And so essentially, I had to start a war over again on you know, this this seeing or this medium that I was creating in Japan or B J. You know, doing visuals in the clubs to DJs and dancers and musicians at that time didn't exist in New York. And so it was such a struggle. It is such a struggle to find places, to live, to find, work, to find a new fan base to, you know, find myself again. But, you know, I wouldn't change things now, but at that time, I you know, I look back and I think, why didn't I do it gradually? Why did I have to jump in? But I guess that's just how you know I've been It's like, OK, I want to go back. So let's just go back and then you figure now that your background story is so inspiring. And, uh, we could I could spend the next hour asking you questions about your background because I think it, um, there's so so many, um, so money. It's like a late at second Onion. There's so much going on But what I'm I know that the people a couple 1000 people here, watching and listening are dying to know a little bit about your process because your work is incredibly recognizable. And that is, um, one lens through which you can consider having made it if your work is recognizable and the line that you draw that has a signature behind it, just just the line in and of itself. So I'm wondering if you could help us understand a little bit more, um, about your signature style about how you developed it, and maybe walk us through the different sort of the live performance aspect to it all the way to maybe to the monograph, your your book or anything you want to cover in there. But just idea of personal style is as, um seems so evasive to so many creators and entrepreneurs that are trying to find their way in the world like how do I have a personal style? How do I develop it? How will I ever be recognized like you just talked about in New York? So how did you do that? And and what do you do today to keep it going we'll take those in two parts. How did you first create this voice that you now so clearly command? I'm sure you can relate to this journey as a photographer. You know, find in your creative voice for sure. I really love the world process because process is about getting to learn him, getting to understand, giving, to share, getting to connect, having experience. And so you know it. Now I look back at schools and on my way. Why do you our teachers tell students and look at other word or to look at other artists to find people's on style? Um, I found my style, found my fingerprint now my identity because off process on, Because with practice on, I discovered it. You know, it was there anyway, but I really truly discovered it in Japan, working life, creating life on dso I A had this opportunity because I was drawing these really small details for Aurens at the time. When I go to Japan and the friend said, You know, I love you to do some drawing at the event I'm organizing and they'll be a band playing music, and you could stand next to them and draw on canvas on I said. Well, the drawing I'm creating now. It's so small. So why, If I draw under visual presenter or no XP, we project that onto the back. And also, you know we're a TV nation. If there's a screenplay, non music playing, we in Sydney connect those two things without brains. And so what happened is I set myself up. I got sketchbooks, pens, magnifying glasses. I got posted notes. I'm set up under an overhead projector and there's a band in front of me. It's in an amul guard Japanese club. It's noise, music. It's music that I have no experience with whatsoever. On the first time I did this, the band stops playing on the music sounds really wild. It's dislike me. A are Oh, this is music. My forearms. I had this kind of, you know, epiphany that once I froze and I was so shocked by the music that the band was playing. The screen was black. Nothing was happening because my mind went blank and I realized, like, Oh, I I can't overthink this. I can't hesitate. I can't be insecure. I just have to draw. I just have to make marks. I just have to follow the music and see where the pen and the lime wants to go. 45 minutes later, the band finishes playing and I looked down at the drawing or the journey that I've been on. And there's this amazing drawing, and I'm like, Wow, that's what I did by That's my style. And now imagine you repeat that. Repeat that and repeat that. Repeat that to extract you, extract you extract, and you have that power of reflection where you can look back on a lot of your drawings and start to stay holed. That's me. That's me. Those lines of me, those words, me, those shapes and me those, you know, those Dinkins Army and those, ah, combination off your language, your style, your fingerprint, your identity. And so for me, that was a really magical journey or acceleration or finding my style at an artist. And also the benefit I realized or doing that is a couple things. It kept me honest because I didn't have time to think, didn't have time to plan. I didn't have a plan to hesitate. It meant that I didn't have time to be anyone else but myself. So it was keeping me honest as an artist, but also the by default or product or result was that the audience got to share in your process. The audience were able to see how these drawings were constructed and therefore you create that connection and that experience, which essentially are, is about so for a lot of artists, when I say, you know, when they asked me, How do I find my style? I'm like it's in you. You just gotta find these moments where you take that time away where you can extract it, and then you can repeat that process, and then you look back to see what the column, You know, the common elements are on that essentially formed your style as an artist. Well, you use the word I love the idea of process to. I'm a process person. I just would go out with a camera every day and use what you've taken thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands or millions of pictures. You start to be able to see commonalities in whatever you photograph, whether it's a car, a human plant, and is I'm wondering, used this word extraction is that What you mean. Is that the common elements of all of these different aspects of your work? Is that what you're doing? You're sort of distilling into the simplicity. I love the concept of extraction. I just want to know what you mean. Really. So you know for yourself there's a core of you, right? As a photographer, you have a pool, but you can't find that for until you extract it. So you have to go out and take thousands and hundreds of photographs so that then you can look back and have that power off reflection. And you say, Oh, you know, I'm always across the sky like it. So I always kind of, you know, send two things up like it or I'm always taking pictures from this angle. And then those things create your identity and your fingerprint, and it's the same with drawing, you know? I know back hundreds of drawings. I'm like, Oh, I'm always using these words or I'm always using these phrases Well, the lines always like this, or there's this combination off faces and birds and characters, and and then once you have that, you always have a key or a language that could be decipher it, you know, And with my drawings, you know, we on That's actually you know, this power of reflection for me is now in the form of a book, and you mentioned, you know, lines, which is my first artwork and monograph. Have a copy here but the power of having a book. Now I get to look back. I get to see the recurring themes but executed in all sorts of different mediums. It's it's and again for anyone. I cannot recommend it enough. It's called lines. If you want to shun, tell Martin S H a N T E l L. It's to L. Martin Lines the word lines dot com. Of course, on Amazon, it is absolutely beautiful and stunning. There's some great conversation pieces in there. An essay from Hans Ulrich Obrist. Um, where there's a conversation between homes and Chantelle. It's just remarkable. I can't recommend it enough. Um and okay, can you hold it up right there? That's amazing. That's the scale of the book to if you hold this book, it's like Oh so beautiful and that see if I can find something interested. But you know, it's this this idea of just allowing no Russian, you know, this is some of my older drawing. I meant that in Japan, where it's a lot more detail on and, you know, it's also just about having fun. I think other people are in erection now. But starting my Kareem in Japan, really talking this idea about being patient, about trying to march to something on for me it's about online, you know, you spoke earlier about things being recognizable. When you practice so much about something, you know it can become yours because you kind of only after a while I love the fact that anyone and everyone could create a live. If you look at my line, you could say all that Shantel, my interline. And now imagine how much work has to go into it to make something that everyone on the planet can create, recognizable on DSO with the line work. It's amazing because it's so simple in its for one of its appearance. But once you kind of delved into that, the such a profound complexity in it that that, to me underscores the point, like people have done it with words. But even words you have to have, you know, hundreds or tens, at least hundreds, probably usually thousands in the form of an essay or book to have a style emerge. And yet you condone it with a line that is arguably the most simple vehicle on the planet. And yet, as you said, as soon as you start to peel back the layers, it just becomes infinitely complex And, you know, sitting here and knowing having, um, done so much work in photography and understanding how much work goes into it and mastery, I can only imagine the infinity of work that goes into mastering something as beautiful and simple and yet complex as a line on the page. Did you were you aware of that? And would you ever have taken it on if you knew what you were getting into? Also, you know, the nice thing about lines is that it's an invitation, you know, because people look a line drawing and they say, Oh, that's so simple. I could do it. And so you're giving someone mission. You're inviting them to do something because creatively there is a benefit from muscle drawing, you know, we do it as Children for a reason to get to know well, to have this tour of extracting ourselves, to understand our experience between our head and our heart hand. And it's a shame that we all don't continue that practice. So I love when somebody is so simple. That song says I can do that. You give them access, you give the mission. You kind of inspired them in a way. I never knew that I would end up on this journey. For me, it was just the most accessible tool that was around when I was growing up. You know, lucky enough. You know, my my hidden secret wasn't being a marine biologist. It was destroying on as a kid. This was a thing that was accessible to me, is available to me. I could pick it up on this tool in its simplicity has enabled me to do so much and accomplished so much and create so much, uh, stunning and makes me want to shift gears to ah topic that you think concept of supporting artists and you talked about sort of relating and an invitation, and I read a piece in The New York Times in July. Obviously, we're a point of, um, in the process and we re working, um, centuries of racial injustice. And there was a piece about rushing to use black art and leaving artists feeling used. And it was a powerful piece. And I'm wondering, um, if you have ah, comment on that or I Also there are people here are saying artists so stunning, and how do I find access to it? I think the book lines is one way, but I'm wondering if you can can can suggest other ways that people can connect with you and your art is your for sale of. So how? Where, when, Um, I don't wanna want toe, you know, give you the opportunity to share the best place for the community to connect with your art. Where would you steer us? And in a way that's respectable and respectful of the art that you have created? I feel like that was 10 questions, girls. Sorry, it's just it's a complex idea. And the The Art The New York Times the title is a rush to use. Black art leaves artists feeling used, and the goal of this community is to support, create, communicate, connect and lift one another up. So can you give us some ideas on how to best connect with you and your art without in a way that supports you rather than using your art? I know they're instances where your heart's been stolen by others. And if this community is aiming to lift one another up, where would you steer them to connect with your And by I know you have limited edition and you have open edition. Steer us towards that. That work if you could. So for me. Now, you know the first thing you can do is get a copy of lines or gift a copy of lines to someone that you think needs a creative outlet or break. Right now I've got some beautiful Our prince on absolute are dot com. So he wants something on your wall or you also want to give something to a friend. The Absolut art don't come. And then in general, you know Instagram, you choose website. You know, these old places where you can get to know more about my work and then, in general, to answer kind of the bigger question there off, you know, how do you support artists, black artists and creatives. It's, you know, everyone can just try and do better. You know, everyone can from the releases or the agreements that you have for them to sign for projects, you know, Is this the best thing that you know, you should be given to this possible to this group. You know, when you hire people for a project in your am I reaching out to them because I care about them? I want to, you know, support this person's career. Have I had that history or doing it? And if no, maybe I want to just ask and consultant to advise us to make sure that I'm doing it in the right way, you know? And I think also just simply do you in it from a place of good intentions. You know, if you do pretty much anything on your good intended most the time, their support is that no, the communication is that the understanding is that when you try and do something that is performative just because maybe everyone else's now, then that's when paper, maybe we make more mistakes. When we tripped up on the wall, I also think, you know we Maybe we might make mistakes and on the way, but it's important to keep trying. Keep trying to support. So, you know, foot for me. Like I said, you go get a print. Go get a book. Go watch my YouTube videos. You know, go follow me on instagram. But as a whole. Just really think about what you're consuming. What you're posting. What you're reacting to how you're being distracted. How can you do better? How can you be better? How can you make any interaction that you have with artists with a black artist with an artist from minority? How can you make that interaction better for them or that situation? More win win for them? Thank you for that was beautiful. Um, so what I was listening to with the previous answer to this your stylistic evolution that got me thinking about theirs. It seems like there's a trust and you talked about being paralyzed for a second and then just realizing I need to make marks on this paper. I'm here doing this live and I'm fascinated by this concept of trust and specifically learned to trust oneself. Was that inherit and who you've always been? Was that a learned behavior? And if so, can you share with us? You know, the experience of learning to trust yourself as an artist across your career. Trust is a journey, you know. And it's a journey for all of us. And I think combined with trust is permission and confidence on experience. You know, when I was younger, you know, trust was rolled up in being defying on trust him that people didn't have my best interests at heart. And so I was going to be defiant, kind of go against a great and so, you know, for me, that's a little bit personality that But, you know, trust is something I've learned to build through this practice of doing things live through this practice or creating gigantic, enormous pieces of work. No, if I'm creating a 200 ft drawer in spontaneously, I have to trust the composition that things will work out, and I have to trust that I won't hesitate. I have to trust that I want trying to be someone else. I have to trust that I'm gonna approach it with good intention and confidently. And to do that, I have to give myself permission. But to get that commission, I have to trust myself, and I have to trust that I have that. And so you know both those experiences. You know, I think for everyone you know, we all have our individual journey off trust. We all have our individual journeys or given ourselves permission, huh? A couple of questions from Instagram Live. First of all, you'll shoots is a comment. It's not a question. It's just thank you for being so fearless. Toe always begin again on your journey through from London to, um, to Japan and to New York. And then, um, Speicher, Helms talked. Is his or her or their question? Not quite sure is. When you started, did you model your work from someone you admired? Did it come from some other place? And that's you know, it's an interesting question, because I feel like if I modeled my work when someone else's work, I have to work 10 times. It's hard by myself, and that's why it's so important. Well, teachers, for students to practice the extraction off self to go inside for inspiration, buses going outside, and you can do that by being mindful by meditating by taking time away by tricking itself by blindfolding yourself and just draw in and see what happens. But doing that over and over and over and over again so you can see naturally who you are. The issue with trying to mimic or copy or base yourself on some off work for someone else's work is that you're getting further and further and further away from yourself. And now I have to work twice as hard to get back there to get inside their to start extracting that. Lucky enough for me growing up, we didn't have the Internet. We didn't have, you know, social media. We didn't have smartphones. So the way that we learned about other artists was primarily through deny brie on me being a huge dyslexic as I waas, I never went to the library. And so in a way, I missed out on this opportunity from learning from other islands from these books because I didn't ever go to the library. But now it When I look back, I feel like I'm so lucky that I didn't go down that path of trying to be inspired by others, and I ended up on this more organic path of extraction. Off line Floren off collaboration. No, I'm going to Ah, ask you to reflect on a couple specific pieces of your work and, um, in particular Ah, the three words. Who are you that they repeat so many times and so often in your work? You are you are you you You know, this is complexity, but this simplicity there I'm wondering where that came from. And, um, what it means to you, you Are you the first three letters off? Who are you? Are w a wine? You know, So on one hand, you have this big extension question off. You are mine. Um, I had a call. Who am I as an individual? Who am I as a collective? But if you break it down to a simplistic way, it's about how we find in our way of life w a y the me I'm finding my way in life journey off words, lines drawing. I'm initially I came to these questions because I would see myself. I think of myself as one way. And then I walked out of my house, walk out my front door and be treated another way was. I looked different. People treated me differently. And so I would question who I watched or how I should fit in. Or if I should, even trying to fit in. Or even if I could fit in now, I had to really question my identity. And then when you question your identity from an exterior, then you start to question your identity from an interior. And so these questions I realize we're benefit not just for myself, but for everyone at because everyone else was putting this baggage onto me. So I thought, Well, what if I give them this gift off this question off reflection so that they can plant that question within themselves a seed and see where they're coming from and see where they could go? Yeah, anything. So again, there's just I read some some more really interesting quote, and I'm going to botch it on. But it's something just about like there's It takes, uh, so much time to take something that is so complex and make it so simple. And it's in that simplicity that there's, you know, uh, infinity of complexity, and I just see that over and over and over again. in your work, and it's it's very inspiring. Um, I'm wondering if you can comment a little bit about Let's go back a little bit to this process, this immediacy. You know, the live aspect of so much energy when you're doing this in front of, ah, with a live band or in a live audience, you know, how does that relate to the work that you do and or do you still do work just for yourself in quiet times and quiet spaces? Are you attracted to one or the other more? And if so, you know why you have a preference? You know, it is interesting. I feel like if I'm creating for myself, I'm so easily distracted that I'll end up doing something out there. I'll sit down on, intend to do some Dorian, but then I end up watching TV or going for a walk or doing something else. But I see I have a sketchbook on the table and I can show you some drawings in Dream would love that. People are going crazy in the comments. Please show us Oh great. And it myself. And you might say, Oh, wow, it's coming. This because I think with myself, I tend to perhaps exploring the limit wall today, dreaming a little bit more, another one on DSO. Also, I think with myself, I'm more inclined to use small the pens and kind of get closer to the paper. Where is the knife work? It's become a little bit of this, like Bigger is better or I'm challenging myself to see how big I can go. And so the scale keeps growing and growing and growing. And so by myself, it's been so nice to create these more detailed or cozy or intimate pieces of work. Question from Facebook. Um, Butler asks. Well, first of all, comments so, so grateful for your sharing. Second is the question. Do you find journaling at all helpful and or is? Are your sketchbooks some sort? Some similar meditation or a form of journaling just talked about journaling for a second to us. Yeah, I love journal it on. And you know, diaries and a lot of my earlier work for my earlier groins were actually quite diarist IQ, so they were drawings, but they would diary, Fort ideas, antidote dreams, daydreams. Earlier this year, I actually released a notebook slash diary for simple observations with a company called Barren Fig. Well, yeah, you Yeah, be observant and present with the world, but you could also use it in a diary. And so it's so important to create diaries or to create journals, because that's when you get to look back. And that's when you get to see yourself. And then that's when you get to see the consistencies or inconsistencies or simply that's when you get to look back and be like, Oh, I was a different person and I think we get so lots now if you're taking so many pictures and then it goes away somewhere and we never see again. But when you create something that's so tangible that right back to it, there's so much power in that. So I really do, said Jeff, still promote or encourage people to create generals to create diaries when you can, you just seem fearless, Which is it's such a, um it's again so inspiring, and I'm wondering if you're super human or are there things that, um, that's scary or other? Are are you just fearless for our? There's things that that create blocks for you and I see this. Just there's so much again respect and admiration and, um, uh, cheering for your achievements. I'm curious on the flip side of that, how you stay human. On the flip side of that, something I struggle with is I'm in extreme pessimist. You know, the work I create is so lying is a free and is so bold But inside, You know, I'm not that optimistic. And I'm quite pleasant, mystic. And, you know, I think the world is controlled by these biggest systems, and there's no accountability or transparency out. And so I think in a way, the reason I also create that work is because it does bring light to that side of me. It does bring float to that side of me. It does bring something lighter to that side of me. Yeah. What about the stuff you're doing? Your you've done in Times Square earlier this year. That was extraordinary. Is that on the order of the scale that you're starting you're talking about? Is that intimidating or is that Is that where most of the new challenges await for your work? I'd be curious to know something about this in this half this. But, you know, at first, you know, I would walk around when I was younger and be like I can imagine my drawing there. I can imagine my joy. And now I happen to live in New York, Jersey City. So I walk around Times Square, the biggest digital campuses. Like I can imagine my work there where I won't three wait. You know, well, trade center from York units, and I feel like I can imagine my work there. Andi, with a lot of creation, It just starts with as we spoke about earlier with imagination. And I just happened to use in New York or in Jersey City. When I get to see these canvases ALS the time and imagine my work on them. Andi just just got very good at that grass roots. Think of when you create some imagination. You put 1 ft from the the other for a really long time, and then you could bring it into existence. No. Well, that also helps humanize because this idea of being, you know, unknown and not speaking the language in Japan X number of years ago to being, you know, in the billboards in times square. Um is just, ah, inspiration. This can do attitude that doesn't seem toe reflect the pessimistic part that you shared. Um, you've also your Ted talk, which is also incredible if anyone eyes curious. Just, ah, look up Shantel Martin and Ted And the title of the Ted Talk is about freedom. It says how drawing can set you free. You talking that Ted talk about following the line and we've covered a little bit of that. I'm just curious about this freedom, metaphor and the connection between your art and freedom. I'm obsessed with the word freedom. What it means to people on. You know, if you watch the Ted talk your you'll hear that I'm talking about drawing. It's something that gave me the tools to set myself free, because freedom is how we think freedom is how we approach the world. Freedom is how we wake up and get out bed every day. Freedom, how we interact with people on. Sometimes we need tools that we need access points to approach freedom. On the talk there is, it's just about how draw and set me free how drawing have given me this permission. How drawing has given me this freedom on, but hopefully in a way that we can all relate to through our own tours or for our own experiences Is that the direction that you're exploring when you just shared us share that notebook with us is that is color. Ah, Next step in freedom from what you're so well known for this black and white line drawing or is are all Is that part of your exploration or freedom or what ways is that manifesting itself now that you've got the tool and theoretically, you've you've, um, broken out and ah, by most outside accounts could be free. Is there some continued quest for this freedom? I'm wondering if that's something never ends. Yeah. You know, Carl has always been there in my work. It just pops up in different places when, as in different forms of media, I like it over your left shoulder. Sorry to interrupt, but there's that color wash. Their as it's really cool expression of that exact point. Thank you. But you know, I think you know freedom is related to struggle. You know that the freedom to struggle, the freedom to have old the freedom to change the freedom to grow. And that's little century I'm looking for is I'm looking for that freedom as an individual, as an artist to create the work that I want to create to explore the themes that I want to explore to collaborate with people that I want to collaborate to imagine the well toe Want to imagine Andi have the freedom to do that? Um, last question, maybe a couple of questions. But last theme that I want to explore is this concept of community. I talked a little bit about the community in Japan. How you know, there's some of it that worked in some of it, didn't. And similarly, in New York. And now there's a community of groundswell around your work. And I'm wondering, you know, is this something you put effort effort behind. And, um, how important is it to you and to your work and to success or fulfillment? Like talk? Talk to me a little bit about how you think of of community. You hold up who? Why, Grandma? Yes, of course. Of course. We don't want to run into power once that community Okay, Jack put put it. We're putting a pin and were happily to wait. In the meantime, I'm going to give a shout out to you'll Butler and Fernando and Tony and Ash and Antonia and Sam and Stephanie, uh, who are writing in from all over the world across a myriad of the platforms that were streaming to, um, thank you so much for participating in for helping shape the conversation today. And if you're just joining ah, me, I'm here with Shantel Martin and we are exploring her incredible art and the process behind that art and the human, the human and the process behind that are right Now she's about to tell us the role that community plays in fulfillment. Success is an artist. Um, and the anything that has to do with her work what no one knew there is. I was down to 1%. 0, thank you. So I'm glad you went and found a thing to plug in. That's great. We're happy that you're able to stay with us. Thank you. You know, couldn't Community is so important, Andi. New communities also something that I have struggled with being, you know, as my sisters used to call me when I was younger loner, you know, as someone that naturally navigates to themselves or wants to spend time alone or doesn't want to be around before around the group. What I learned over the last 10 20 years is that community. It's so important. Two minutes, he teaches here. Community gardens. You community supports you, especially in an artistic community. You have your collaborators. We have people that you can learn more. You have people that grade with Andi. It's something that I constantly trying to work on their. I've grown up with this mentality that you have to do it alone by yourself. You know, no one cares about you, so you have to care about yourself. You have to do everything. You have to work hard and you have to create or these infrastructures on you. If you ask your community for help and that's a weakness on. It's taken me so long to work on this, and it's taken me so long to understand that when you have community, you have strengths. When you have community, you have power. When you have community, you have support. When you have community, you have people that you can learn from and grow with on community is so important and so powerful when it's used in the right way. Amazing. Thank you so much. And I think one of the comments that I have in response to that is it sounded like you identified as an introvert, right? You you reference that and and whether it was a label that your sisters were sounded like you. You also acknowledged that that was a way you you sort of got energy. And I think it's always interesting for people who identify as in traverse this idea that how important community still is. And so it's not an identity. It's not about your identity as an introvert or an extrovert or an Amber vert or anything, but that community still plays a role in every aspect of, and we're social animals. At the end of the day, right there is this desire to connect, and and I think you put it in, um, almost in and asking for help. Um, is that something that you know now? Or is that Is that something you're still learning? Where do you put yourself on the spectrum of understanding the role of that community place? Because I just think what I am going back to this again is it's just an area where I find so many people stumble, and you seem to be just so connected to your community. You know, um, online, especially. It's definitely for me to work in progress. I I think it will always will be. But I understand that if I want the work, if I want the philosophy, I I want this message to have an impact, to change, to inspire the best way. One of the best ways it can do those things is through a strong community, its crew people believe in in the work for me believing in those people. And so you recognize something, so seem biotic about that. But it takes a journey to get, especially when you're coming from a place where you feel like you don't deserve these. You have to work for community, you know, sometimes I said, I'm a little bit of pessimists, so I often think, well, why would a community want to support me even though I'm trying to support people as much as I can do all these things? Because that's naturally why I want to do. But sometimes for those things that naturally work by ways and feel deserving of both ways as a journey that will need to go. I cannot thank you enough for sharing s so much about you personally about your process, your work, the world. Um, I just want to say thank you and again to the people who are watching from all over the world who are huge fans of your work and champions. I put myself in that category. Um, I want to say thank you first and acknowledge that you are amazing and incredibly inspiring. So first of all, thank you. Um, also, if I'm noticing on your site this idea in support of, for example, community that you can, um, give a book or get a book if you're a student and the book is hard for you to to come up with the money, um, then it's There's another button here to be a donor and to give or gift a book. And I would encourage people to check that out. That's again at Shantel martin lines dot com. Um, earlier, you told us a few coordinates on how toe, uh, follow and connect with your work. I wonder if we can recap those again. Instagram is one of the areas you sent us, which is Shantel underscore Martin. Ah, a couple others again. Can you retrace those for us? Yeah, I would just say Make sure shouldn't tell us. Felt right skj anti nll and then, you know Well, Joyce, you've got it from this. Let's I amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing your work with the world incredibly inspiring. And, um, you've got fans all over the place around the world here in this community, and I want to say thank you. Thank you so much, Chase. And I'm actually really excited to jump into creative life. You know? It's like it's been up and running from a long time. It wasn't aware of it, and it seemed like a perfect time for me to get into it. Get aware of it. So happy and excited to explore e. I appreciate it will make sure you have all of the access you need, and we'll do what we can to Ah have you teach us some drawing so grateful for our time? I'll follow, but these separately on that point and in service of the community want to say thank you all for your questions and comments and support. You know, we're a community of 10 million strong hair creativelive. And we believe that creativity, connection, humanity. All those things are critical to the future of the universe. Um and so thanks everyone for being a part of it all. Um, hopefully we'll be back in your ears or ah, in video form for your eyes again tomorrow, if not sooner. Thanks again. Signing off. Hey, guys, what's up? Chase Jarvis, founder and CEO of Creative Live. You all know that we have more than 2000 classes in more than 10,000 hours of learning, inspirational and motivational content on the platform. I'm super excited to announce a new experience on creativelive. It's called fast clubs. You told us that you're busy, and sometimes it's hard to dive into a full class from start to finish. So essentially we're now giving you a shortened highlight version of our top creative life classes. You can always dive into the full class with 5, or 15 hours of great content. But now, if you're just looking to focus on a few of the highlights. I want to be able to skip quickly to something that really interests you. You can now get a shortened, fast class version of that class. We're also thinking this might be able to help you explore a new craft and save time. While doing this is a great tool to curate your learning experience to help create the life that you see. So you're probably thinking great. How do I access this new experience on creativelive that all you have to do is be a subscriber to the Creator past? And then all this is your If you're feeling isolated and looking for creative connection, try tuning into creativelive dot com slash tv. That's where we've got a 24 7 live stream from the kitchen counters. I could do that back shot that I really like to do from studios on living rooms of many of the world's top creators, where we're doing musical performances Q and A's cooking shows, virtual book tour events, drawing spoken word poetry and waiting for an invitation. When the world is greater than be someone you've never been, you feel all that adrenaline. It's medicine. It actually looks me feel like my days are more purposeful. I hope that out of this food will come some collective growth diving the creative live TV today, okay?