Sponserships and Industry Relations: Chris Brewer
At this point after you've heard from mike and j p and all great guest yesterday and stuff that I've been up here blabbing about to you guys, hopefully you are at a point where you know you know what you want to do and let's assume now you're a working musician, right? You've picked up and moved or you've started promoting yourself in your home town you got gigs going on you're even talking about getting out on tour maybe you are on tour now and your band is playing some shows you're opening for some bigger bands you got some cool stuff going on you know you you now need to look a tte your position and say, ok, we're here we made it here that's great there is that small victory how do we get to the next level from there and what happens is once you get on tour it's not like you know we made it and you did make it in some ways but there's more challenges now there's more things because going on tour, for example, is very expensive you have a van now you have a trailer you're pulling tha...
t trailer that cost money and gas right? You have gear that you have to maintain, you have to learn how to manage sleeping and traveling to the next city, okay there's so many factors now that you're on tour that make that what you're doing harder than it was before and you really have to be aware of that and one of those things that I really want to discuss is you know the importance of understanding when it's time to say okay, we need help we need some sponsors okay? Because that's a huge thing people ask me all the time how do I get a symbol sponsor how do I get a drum set sponsor? I can't keep spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this now that I'm out on the road I don't have my job that I had before um but I'm building a fan base and we're growing as a band what's the best way to go about this and that's the thing I mean I think it's very important to know your role and I've said this before but you have to know your role if you're just showing in your home town and you're playing some drums and you hit up you know, some industry rapper you know, music manufacturing representative you're like, hey, dude, what's up I'm a sick drummer check out my solo gave me some stuff they're going to be like okay later I mean that's that entitle thing you can't be entitled, you're not going to get what you what you want that way at all, but if you're out on tour and you're building a fan base okay and you're putting your music out there to people and you're you're growing as an influence in some way then you have a much better shot at being able to develop that type of industry relationship because you have to look at it honestly like a business ok, it really is think about this so ah symbol company and we'll talk about symbols because we're going to have a guest from a similar company here shortly but a symbol company makes these products for musicians ok? And they're fantastic products by the way my final symbols makes amazing symbols mike and I both used these this brand symbols and you know, they they make these products and they want to get it out there but they want to have the best possible people playing their stuff ok? And that doesn't mean necessarily and this is the truth it doesn't mean the best players all the time because there are some amazing players that never get endorsements but as a company and as a branded as a business you have to realize thes people was tryingto get exposure they're trying to use a platform or multiple platforms to get their brand out to the public okay, so your role as an artist is actually to be that platform for them to help them get it out there and you have to ask yourself okay is a symbol company gonna give me some kind of endorsement deal if I'm just playing in my hometown locally and I have, like, a hundred people that come and see me, well, maybe, but there's probably someone else who has, like thousands of people who were seeing them across the tour, that definitely is going to get that endorsement before you and is as sometimes people might say that's kind of unfair or they may feel entitled I mean, that's business, the point is, the symbol company wants to get their product in front of the most amount of people and at the same time have good people representing that brand and what's so cool specifically about maino symbols is that, yes, they look at it like a business, okay, we need to get our product out the most amount of people possible because that's the best exposure and that's how we're going to grow, and we want our quality products to be represented by quality people, and I've seen a lot of companies out there that just will say, oh, this person's got a big following, cool giving symbols, okay? But maybe that person's kind of not the best representative of their brand and not the best person you'd want, because even though you get to a certain point doesn't mean you're a good person. A lot of people make it places, and they haven't learned about the values we discussed today and happens all the time, and I think you hear about that a little bit in the next segment with with our guests, but I think the values that we talked about, our super, super important when developing these industry relationships because you may not be in the biggest band in the world, you may be growing you maybe taking these steps and you may be getting out there a little bit. You may have, you know, a tour that hits different areas. I guarantee you you're going to be more likely to build a good relationship and receive some kind of even small endorsement if you are a a good person, if you communicate well, if you foster a good relationship, if you offer to help them, if you do things that they don't even ask you to do to promote the brand, and I see it all the time. I have a friend, um andrew, who plays for a band called structures, okay, and andrew is a student of mine. When back in two thousand nine when I was, you know, kind of working on ban happy I was figure out what to do, he was one of my first band hat. The students on tour and at the time he had this band and they hadn't really done done too much, you know, on a on a larger scale. But they were they were serious. They were going and and he says to me, man, like, what can I do to get the next level? I was like, dude, just keep working hard and when whatever it is, be a good person, all the stuff we talked about. So eventually the band starts starts going, they start picking up pace and he's a fantastic drummers. So he draws attention from different companies. And michael symbol's, actually, you know, was one of those companies that saw him was like, you know what? This the stewarts awesome and he's, a great drummer. But I wonder what he's like as a person. So chris brewer who's, the guy who's going to join us, hit me up he's like, hey, do you know this this band? Do you know this dude? I was like, yes, I d'oh. And because he is a good person. And because he's always been an awesome friend of mine, I was like, he's, perfect for your brand he's a great dude and and then andrew took it a step further. Andrew still to this day after being with them for a couple of years we'll just every day or every other day we'll post a new video of him playing his model symbols on instagram or hope post a picture of his drum set with the symbols too his fan base he's got thousands of people to follow me on instagram mina listen on the phone were like, hey, can you do this? Can you do this to you do this you have to realize that when you start working with a brand you have a responsibility to believe in that brand and don't just pick a brand because they're going to give you free stuff they're gonna give you a deal go for the brands that you're passionate about ok that's another huge thing that's going to help your relationship if you can go to one of these companies and say, hey, I'm touring and I really need some help but I gotta say, man, I've been playing your brand for the past ten years and you are the you guys are where I want to be that shows loyalty that shows commitment and that's what these companies and these people look for because they have it's just like a record label they have stuff being thrown at them all day like, hey, I'm a drummer hammer guitarist give me this give me that give me that well, why but if you approach it the right way again with tact and you approach it with with honesty and state of them look like I love your brand don't just go after everybody don't don't throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks really work for what you want and let them know that you are a believer and that's what andrew's been doing because of that now I see him being reposted all the time by chris brewer and by michael symbols because he's doing all this work on his own behalf because he just believes in the brand and that's something that is super important so hopefully I'm getting the message across here with with how to develop this relationship, you know? And I even think back to my experience with it when I first started touring with periphery, I had broken symbols I mean, like literally I was playing every night with broken symbols and I was on tour with, um with two different bands I was performing with animals leaders at the time and I was on tour veil of maya who are both amazing bands, amazing dues and they were like, dude, like I don't I don't get I don't get it like you're playing on broken symbols what's what's the deal here can you get you like a ford good symbols? I was like no a working musician are you kidding? How do you guys have somebody's like? Oh, well we get some help from I know and I was like, dude, I love mine oh, I've been in the middle since I've seen aaron gillespie from monroe playing them years ago I was like I would love to play mine elson val's they're like my brand and he was like okay, well, I love you as a person let me make a call for you they both send emails they both made calls my buddy chris adler from lamb of god found out about that I needed symbols he he did the same thing when I needed drums chris actually and my buddy john from the band double driver who had all these guys I toward what they were like, hey, I'm gonna make a phone call for you because you've been nothing but good to me you've offered to help me carry my drums in the venue. You're not this entitled brat man, let me give back a little bit. Let me make open the store for you and that's how it happened for me that's how I made my first introduction to may packs to model symbols, all the brands I work with and they're all companies that I really believe in as cos as you know, for the products that they put out and now because of that and because all that I'm trying to do for the brands, we have a great relationship and there is a give and take on both sides they help me out with with the gear that I need to do my job the best and I help them out by promoting them but it's not just because they give me stuff for because I have ah specific deal with them it's because I believe in the brands and I want to stand by that and I want other people to play when you sit down on a drum set for the first time or pick up an issue for the first time that is one of the most life changing experiences you can ever have, so why not do it with stuff with gear that actually inspires you? Because it's made well and it sounds good and there's love put into it when it's made because the company that makes it is actually really a good company. So those are the things you should think about before you go and say, hey, let me get a deal, you know? So is my band at a point or am I at a point where I have enough of a platform to reach a lot of people on dh share what I'm playing with those people and inspire more people to play this brand and do I love this platform I'm sorry, joe. I love this brand. Do I use this brand already? And can I actually be a really good spokesperson for that brand if you can and you understand that it's not going to happen right away. You have to be patient. You have to wait for these people to get back to you. They already have tons and tons of artists that they work with and deal with. You're not the first on their list. That's okay? No, your roll. Okay, if you can check off those boxes, then I think it's okay to start reaching out and it's. Okay, if you're on tauron, you have friends that are playing stuff, like asked him about, you know, their relationship and just do the research. Find out how to do it. You know, would you have anything to add to that? I mean, as pick up the mike if you want talk, by the way, I got my eye right on. You know, I'm strapped. You go. Yeah. You know, I think everything you said is kind of spot on the no. Your roll part is the one that seems to be the most on understood part, which meaning that a lot of times people equate their skill level toe what they should deserve from a company and they would say you know like, dude, I'm really good and it's like dude that's awesome so are six year olds at guitar center you know when I walk in there blazing chops that I can't even play so good is not it it's it's your direct influence over people and how many people looked to you as a role model there's you know, I think a great example would be the drummer for hootie and the blowfish I don't even know his name but at some they sold about thirty million records and they played arenas every night but how many people left that arena and bought a new crash double because of him? Probably none ever and I think if you went to a blink when a two concert and threw out a handful of gumballs you'd probably hit about fifteen drummers with that handful of gumballs and so it's like okay, so travis barker has a lot of influence over what people buy so he's a high value artist compared to somebody that's playing you know, like I play with miranda lambert ok, well I threw out a handful of gumballs and I didn't hit one drummer so you have no influence over drummers so why would you be a valued artist and so and I've just seen a lot of drummers be like men I don't understand I'm playing arenas every night my company doesn't care and it's like dude that's amazing and I know that for yourself you know that for your ego that feels good but you have no influence over drummers now if before that show every night you went to your local music store into the clinic, you'd be so much more value, you know, yes way see, our friend rich redman, for example, plays for jason aldean is a gigantic country star, right? I mean huge if rich could get by just fine just playing with jason, but he doesn't just do that he's one of the most active educate als he's an amazing, energetic person who's developed a whole curriculum for drummers he's doing mohr for his company's through that I mean, so you have to figure out ways that you can actually help the companies you work with, just like you would help a friend or just like we would help each other toe grow the business, you know or grow the community there part of that community you have to, you have to develop things like that don't just settle for one think so that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today, but again, you know, I am not necessarily the expert on the symbol or drum or guitar bass, whatever it is, I'm not an expert nestling on that industry, but I do know people that are I'm lucky enough to work with some of these people, and before we talk about that or actually what will come back to this slide, but actually wantto I want to bring in a very, very important person in my life for the past couple years who has helped me buy, you know, providing you with singles to play and like giving me a chance to actually get out there and hit drums and make sounds, and I mean, they're directly influential tea building my following because there are mine all fans who have found out about me because of them and hopefully there's a lot of my fans have found about found out about them because of me so there's a symbiotic relationship there, and chris is just been one of the most honest, direct and sometimes even harsh guys when it comes to who gets the deal and who doesn't, and he always has a reason why and it's always like, oh, I get it that's really smart, okay, and there's always it's, just good to hear. So I want to bring in chris, and, uh, there is what's up everybody. How you doing, man? I'm good. How about you guys, uh, we're doing great, like is here is well. I know I sent him a text earlier telling him I needed to talk to him and I said don't call me a lot of doing this matt thing, but I had no idea you'd be right there. I will call you as soon as this mat thing is over. All right? So we'll quickly what you want to talk about? Well, real quick I mean, so I think what s something overview I really want to talk about, you know, your role as an artist relations expert and you know, you are the head of our installations for model yusa, so I want to talk about your role there and sort of what you look for in upcoming artists, what you look for and what has been really impactful for you to see with the artists you work with, what doesn't work on dh maybe just talk about how you even got into it because I think a lot of people here that are watching this course would probably love to get involved in, you know, to get a position like yours one day if it's ever possible. But before that, I think it's cool to mention that you know, mike johnson has a really special relationship with michael as well, and that might you actually put a lot of time in developing a new symbol that I think you saw a hole in their line and was able to actually feel that by creating the transition, right? So how did that how did that come about between you guys? Because I think it's important to see, like, even once you get sponsored by a company that that's not where it stops that there's a lot more you can do, they're sure. Well, I think one, it depends, too, on the company, whether the company sees themselves as supplying you with gear, or which is what I've had in the past, or with what I have now with my nowhere, mindell sees themselves in a lot of different facets, but one of them is helping you, helping you achieve your sound. And when I went to chris, I was pretty much where he's sitting right now, I was in that room, and he helped me pick out my sound, and what happened was we're going through all these rides, symbols, and I was trying to find the perfect ride, and I was playing actually the exact same ride that you have on your right, which is the twenty inch buys an extra dry, medium medium ride, and I kept telling chris hayman, because they're hand made every symbol is different, just slightly, same characteristics, but they're slightly different cause they're handmade, and I said, chris, I need something trash here, can you just can you help me and he's like m and I'll pick out the four trashiest ones I confined I'll send them to you and then pick the one you like send the rest back and none of them were trashing because there it's just a thick non trashy symbol and what was awesome was no thought of business no thought of, you know selling anything chris and our norbert our counterpart in germany he came back to me you said what do you wish it sounded like like let's help you get this sound and that wasn't like what was awesome was it wasn't a thought of hey, I bet if we made you a symbol, it would sell a lot. It was never that it was just like, how do we get you to be happy? And then so yes. So between chris myself and the norbert who does an r in germany uh final germany we just started working on like, uh what if we made it twenty one inches? What if we lay the bottom of it, which means just shaving off a layer of metal on making it a little wash here and so I mean, from my aspect they just made me the symbol I eventually found the one I liked and that was it, and it was just supposed to be for me and I think, you know, maybe chris can pick up from here because this is actually what I don't know what happened is it was supposed to be just for me it was just a prototype we weren't thinking of business, and then I started playing it on youtube and then about six months later, chris and normal both candy and said, hey, we we think we need to make this so chris, I don't know, I mean, was there any? Did you get contacted through social media? I mean, how did you know that it was time to put that my prototype into production and making an actual symbol? Well, we just followed the social media as you were putting it out there. You made it really easy for us easier than any other artist ever has to get that feedback that company so desperately need when you're thinking of putting out a a symbol that's going to be known to the public as having had a collaboration with a certain artists because that will carry for better for worse, a little bit of a stigma with it when people think about purchasing that symbol, not a stigma that's a negative term, but it'll just have an association, so you made it real easy because you just posted it everywhere I mean, you were flat out stoked on your ride cymbal and every that translated really well people picked up on your enthusiasm which got them to listen and then they listened and they heard your excellent playing with the symbol and they they all just bought it I mean, if it's not a it's not a real out there, right? Simple it's it's not real eccentric it's just what you needed and a lot of other people seem to need it to and so it worked out really well like that it it just all happened super organically and you made it real tough for anybody else that wants to come along and try to collaborate on a symbol. Well, that was I mean, that was definitely my vibe to from it was that it was organic and it was I don't know that this would have happened with any other company where it really one hundred percent was just built on achieving a sound with no care of like, well, maybe we should put this design element into a new would sell more. It was never actually the on ly thing we did to help it sell more was put my name on the bottom of it instead of the top because I felt that artist drummers want to be their own artists and they don't they don't need to see my name on a symbol and we, you know marketing wise called it the transition right and stuff but you know, there was never any decision on anything other than the sound, you know, and that was you are constantly asking me without your own personal opinion. Are you happy with the sound? Are you have do you wish it sounded any different? Cause if so, don't let us put this out until you love the sound andan yeah, I mean, I was on the phone with matt all the time like, dude, it is oh, no hey, he knows I was how I was hounding crystals like, dude, what can I get my hands on one of these symbols? I gotta try it he's like patients? Oh, dude, I don't even I can't even get one now like they're like chris call me is like, hey, I know you're find ohio for this clinic, you're gonna have to bring your symbols because we're all out of your son. Well, that was like, what? And so yeah so it's gone very well, but it's been an awesome relationship, but that, you know, since we're timeout artist relations and relating to your a and r guy, you know, it couldn't have been a better situation than I had with crisper and norbert in germany, as far as working with guys and feeling like I was a true collaboration with them saying just how do we get youto have the sound you want? We just need you to be happy with the sound will deal with everything else later, and that was an amazing freedom. Tohave well, and I think that speaks to the values of the company and that's really where I think, chris, if you're willing to, I'd like start there just to sort of ask, you know, from your perspective, you know, so we've talked about in this class so far, the importance of relationships, communication, having goals, the importance of hard work and commitment, you know? And I think as a company, your company really stands by those values and has them at its core. So from your perspective, I mean, aside from a person having those values, would you say that a company can as well? And what about for michael? Or absolutely, I think that everything you do every day is a company, all of your employees, the hundreds of little decisions that you make in the ways that you act and even down teo yeah, which are outgoing messages when it's after hours and people call you and want to talk to you, and if they get some really cold corporate voicemail, maybe that's their first contact with mina land, so they think of it that I am that's not cool so I think that we just try and translate a riel family vibe which is what we get from mr and mrs mina lll and we put that into like a say those hundreds of decisions that go on every day with all the employees and that bill's the perception of the brand to the rest of the people out there that's great and and you're right, I mean, when when myself mike and j p came out to mine all fast in germany, we felt like part of a family and I don't know if I felt that with really any of the other cos I've worked with to the same degree and it's because it's actually organic I mean it's run by a family and it's there is that really important message I think in everything you guys teo so with that said you know, I think what most people would be interested in hearing about is how a company like mine a ll and it might be I want to say it's not try if you can try to pose this answer not just for drummers but as an artist relations it's you know director, what do you look for in an artist and how can up and coming artists better their chances of, you know, getting involved with a company like mine all that is very family oriented that does help each other I mean how can they get involved and what do they need to do what kind of platform they need to have you know initially well I think probably the first thing I look for in a person tio start with that question would be well I think about it this way we go about it goes back to being a family it's mr mina ls name on the door and I've eaten dinner with the guy multiple times he's in his wife you know showered my daughter with clothes when she was born in dolls on all kinds of stuff I mean they're the real deal is far as people go so am I gonna bring on ambassador for our company on board who's less than is as cool as can be know I tried not to every once in a while someone slips through the cracks because they do a pretty good job at impression management but I figure him out pretty quickly and you know and they go away pretty quickly but I think the first thing I look for is the character and obviously that's got to go hand in hand with something they carry as a player or a zoo a self promoter because you can't just be a good person and a crappy player I mean you gotta have pretty much the whole package and how much of that package you have when you approach my final or any other company for that matter and whether or not that work for that company, it just depends on what their needs are a tte that time. Am I staying on track with your question? Definitely know it's great, and the reason I want to really have this answered honestly is because a lot of people do feel entitled and they think they deserve this kind of thing, and I hear it all the time from my students and people I work with and sometimes it going to be a harsh reality, but I think, you know, knowing that is powerful, I think you need to know where you stand and people need to know their roles, so please be as is honest as you can with it, you know, you know me, I'm always honest go so a ce faras thie entitlement thing goes it's funny because I think the same thing, I get a lot of requests and when people don't get the answer they want right away or they don't get that answer at all they get really oops just snarky quickly and so, you know, at my mom one day I said later with my generation where we really entitled I mean I feel like it's just when you get a little bit older and wiser that you start looking at the people that are younger than you and you say man, they they feel so entitled and it just keeps going like that but my mom said no no you guys you know, you work pretty hard for what you wanted and you had to wait for things and you save money and all that all that stuff and if it didn't work he made it work and but I have to say, yeah, there's kind of this sense of entitlement today and you know, I can't change it I just have to try and work with it and reason with the guys that can be reasoned with um so is ah what's the next part of the question well, entitlement essentially so and entitlement can come off sometimes as a negative tone and we don't want this obviously to be a negative thing but I think it's there because these days everything that we do is like instant gratification like we want something we could pretty much get it and a lot of our younger generation is used to getting what they want, you know, technology at their fingertips if I want to learn something if I want to see something watch something I can just do it like that and it doesn't always apply teo everything that we do and I think that's a hard lesson for some people to learn but it's important lesson but with that being said let's turn, turn around and let's I think it'd be great to hear from you specifically aside from character, what other types of things you look for in an artist what what gives them the edge? Well, I mean we're selling symbols and so you've gotta have a guy that's got something as a drummer that will attract other drummers and so I think that's one thing my nails done a pretty good job of is having a roster that is fairly unique and explaining why one guy will get signed and why another guy won't get signed it's really tough it's kind of like saying to somebody asking someone show me how you play piano show me how you play drums it there's a lot that goes into it and it's a big it's a big stew with all kinds of ingredients that are mixed in there and so aside from the character you've got to be a great player and in this day and age you we have to be able to connect with people face to face online socially you've got to be able to put yourself out there what you were saying earlier about cos needing you to be in front of the most people and then mike and he didn't even know it, but he started countered that and I do have to agree being with the most people doesn't always necessarily mean anything and it's kind of sad because it's it's respectable when you're out there playing big arena tours, but if you're out there playing an arena tour with like you say jason all dean who's, how many drummers are in the audience? Not really many and ah, but then again, how many drummers are in the audience at a periphery show when there's a thousand people it's the summer slaughter tour and you guys are in a small club in knoxville and I've got my drum cams on you filming and we're looking at maybe eight hundred people, but I'm looking out there all these kids air drumming so the drummer has tohave a certain audience that we know he or she can connect with so that platform that you're talking about it could be a guy that starts out online doing nothing but youtube videos, which is highly controversial these days there's a huge divide between drummers that think that that's relevant and that it's important and then drummers who look down on it and think, well, that's not the real deal you're not really doing anything, you're not out there playing the hits and working on the tunes and being in the studios and in the big tours, but you can't fault these younger guys for working with the tools that they know that's what they grew up with and so they're just taking these tools and they're running with it and then that gives them ah like a springboard and next thing you know, a kid like luke holland who's got thirty five thousand subscribers is a seventeen year old um and all he does or youtube videos he uh hosts a youtube video well, first I should say he calls me and says, hey, I got a question should I go to college or should I try and go out there and make it in the music biz? And I said, have you talked to your mom or dad yet? He said no and I went oh boy so I said do you have a life? He said no, I said you have a girlfriend no, you have a kid no do you have a car payment or house payment or a dog? No, none of that I went dude, go on tour so he goes on tour because he's doing this youtube video that get seen by a pretty happening band called the word alive and the next thing you know he's out doing twenty five hundred cedars three thousand cedars all around the us travelling the world simply because he used that one little platform he had to make things happen so my law, I'm giving a longwinded answer, but my point is is that we look for guys that are motivated and actually we don't have to keep coming to them for content that we could help brand ourselves with these guys give us content and they they write a story that's easily translatable to other people, so if I want to figure out a way to tell the world about mike johnston or matt halpern and jp movie it's not hard you guys give us a story to tell you're not just sitting behind a studio wall all day and you're not doing it old school style, which doesn't work necessarily that much anymore you're doing it according to the parameters of today, so it's got to be the character it's got to be the player it's got to be somebody who takes advantage of what's out there because if you say for instance, look around when you go to a shopping mall and look around at all the kids go on a friday night or saturday night look at the kids what are they doing? They're looking up no, they're looking down there looking down at their phone and so that's why I think a guy like luke holland or anybody out there mike with what he's done you with what you've done, you guys have all taken advantage of the online world and you're giving people something that's valuable when they are looking down and so I you know, I think that it's okay teo in this huge world it's okay toe act small in a way if you know what I mean a lot of these artists I'm attracted to they think in a very back to organic and a very organic guerrilla warfare kind of manner about how to get themselves out there and that's totally invaluable I agree it's funny I don't know if you heard me talking about it before you came home, but I was talking about andrew macan ini from structures and I heard that, you know, and even hill just post pictures of his drum set up in different studio settings and you know that that's it's little things like that you can do and I remember him doing that even before he was with michael symbols when he would have a model symbol. I don't know if you remember seeing this, but he would post pictures and it was something that he just did because he wanted to share. You know, when sharing is a huge thing these days everybody wants to share everybody goes on facebook and they want to share their status or what they're doing you go on twitter, you share what you ate for breakfast and what you're doing for dinner and you go on instagram, you share a picture of the actual picture of the food that you're eating on dh it's the same thing and I think you're right it's very it can be a lot easier but at the same time you need a you do need some sort of platform wouldn't you say like how would I guess with your experience how would some of these young players build that platform if they aren't in a band like luke holland, for example started off just making cover videos of himself playing drums and went from like you said like thirty five thousand subscribers to know it's like over one hundred thousand two hundred thousand subscribers like not everybody can do that so do you have any insider tips toe maybe help people that want to get to this level that don't have a band or don't have an outlet that you've seen with some of your other artists? Well, most of our artists are either those freakishly awesome kind of players who just you know that you know the guys I'm talking about where they just get notice because they're so good it's ridiculous now of course they're doing things along the way on dh like playing music, playing in bands, doing what they can and then you know, I have to say that there's if I'm sitting around trying to think of an artist that doesn't have maybe they're not on online guy they're not a band guy they're not um even studio guy, what else is there? What you going to do? How are people going to see you? We've got to be able to give the public something to go off of I mean, you can't just be your average drummer at home, like you said before, you can't just be at home and and say, I'm great, give me something or hook me up, give me an endorsement can't do that. It doesn't work for us, like you said it's a business, we're here to sell symbols. At the end of the day, we gotta put numbers up on the board, and we have to do that with the most effective tools possible, so I'm kind of scratching my head. What do I say to a guy that's not going to tour that's not going to get online? I mean, you tell me what else? What else is he going to do? No, I mean, that really is kind of the answer I wanted because I want the viewers to realize that the things we've talked about prior to you coming on here today are so important, you have to get out and hit the pavement, you have to get out and do things you can't just you know, expect things to happen if you're not putting in the hard work but the hard work will pay off and people will see it if you're giving your all and I think you're dedicated to it, wouldn't you agree to that? Oh absolutely I hard work will get you pretty much anywhere I mean you have to work smart but you know also where card and all that cliche stuff and it will it'll get you somewhere provided you take care of the other things along the way that you are a good person along the way and follow the old golden rule you know that's going to help you out I mean it basically the battle eighty percent of the battle maybe even ninety percent of the battle is being a decent person being a good part being the guy that people can hang with the other ten percent is having the skills if you can if you've got the skills and you're not a really great person and no one wants to be in a tour bus with you I mean that's it you're done so if you're online instructor who's decent at the drums but you have zero personality well you're gone so ninety percent being a good dude ten percent being able to really come to the table at the drums yeah, I mean that's that's been a message I think throughout this class it's like a lot of people that want to make it or that do make it are genuinely pretty cool people and not because they're doing amazing things they're playing in front of thousands, thousands people, but because when you just sit around and hang out with them, they're just nice or open a door for you or they'll say, how is your day? You know, that really has been an undertone of this whole class, and I'm glad that you're saying that because it's something that we don't need special tools to work on, we all have the ability to be good people, we just have to choose to be positive, we have to choose to be nice, the people around us. And you said the golden rule you golden rule do do unto others, as others will do onto you, and I think that that is something that that is very important for people to hear it and what's funny is all the guests that we've had, you know, with the exception of mike and j p and me and chris, you know, they don't really they didn't talk before this class, I didn't really give them a game plan of like, hey say this I mean, you're hearing the same things over and over from different people, and they're saying it different ways, for they're they're part of the industry, but like you have to take that seriously, because it really is the undertone of everything that we all dio. You don't get anywhere being a crappy person, you know, you just really don't. So it's, very important to note that.