Working with Text with Khara Plicanic
We just talked about text and the type tools and that is so fun so we're going to dive right in to the type tool and it's over here on our toolbar and you may have noticed that it's a four member family and we have the horizontal type tool vertical type tool, the horizontal type mask tool and the vertical type mask tool so we're going to just really focus on the horizontal type tool on all kind of talk about some of those other ones here in a moment, but we'll go ahead and get started with this and basically when we add text to our images there are two ways we can do that straight out of the gate, right? So one way is to just click and then we're adding point text on dh that simply means that when we type something ending bats let's try changing this teo all right so type something and we keep typing on and on and it just it's going to just roll off the screen forever and always right and the only way to make it come down a line is too hit return so we call that a hard return or a carr...
iage return and then we can keep we could keep typing again but when we do that um anything text like that becomes a riel bear because now we have carried returns or hard returns in our text and that means if you go and remove you know, text from up here it's not necessarily going to wrap this lineup as it should so um this is really best used for like single words or what we call headline type so really just one single line of text then the other method that you might be more used to if you've ever used any other like a layout program like adobe inn designed for example is that we're going to click and draw too actually draw a box and then we can type some getting within dingbats we can type something really brilliant into the box and it will wrap itself down the line now we see that the type that I've put in here is not sitting in the box and that's because it's the boxes to small basically for the type of this size so that's okay, we can change that in a couple of different ways I can simply resize the box if I make it smaller than that's not going to help but if I make it bigger it might fit more nicely and of course we can also select the type and then come up here and we can scale the type down up in our options bar so we'll come back up here to this in a moment and talk a little bit more about that, but first I guess let's talk about why we are using this horizontal type tool and not so much the vertical type tool. This one can be really attractive when people just get really excited about photo shop and text which is so fun. So a lot of times people want to pick up the vertical type tool, but the thing is will make a couple new layers here when we type with the vertical type tool, I grabbed the right one and I type something like we love photo shop will make this fits on the screen. That's would you say that that's easy to read or not so easy to write it's kind of really difficult. If I were to take the horizontal type tool and I were to type the same exact thing we love photoshopped that's like so easy to read and this is so not easy to read. So this is not really considered a best practice to use type that stacked like this. So then you may wonder, well, why the heck do we even have a vertical type? Well, well, not every language is written horizontally like we write english. So for example, if you were type adding japanese characters, they would need to be stacked vertically so it's great that we have that tool, but when it comes to designing text in english, for example, you would want it it's to not so much use this so you want to shy away from that for readability reasons so they've actually done studies on readability and that's of course key when you're working with texts and this is scores really literally to have vertical text this way and the reason that it's so hard to read is because we recognize words by their shape by the shape of the overall letters and we recognize their shape by their relationship of one letter and how it's positioned next to the other and in english of course that's horizontally so when we suddenly take those letters even though they're still right side up but we scramble their relationship, it really becomes hard to read and that's why this is not so great, but that doesn't mean that you can't have text that actually takes vertical space the best way to do it though it would be to take horizontal type and rotate it using something like, you know, free transform to do that. So if you want proof of this out in the real world, look at the spine of the books on your bookcase and you will see that they are rotated type like this, so just a little type bonus tidbit for you, I suppose so I guess just keep that in mind but that's going to be that's going to result in much more alleged alltech okay, so let's get let's get a little bit more serious now we'll go back to our regular type tool and we'll talk about the tight math tools coming up later but I'm going to go ahead and just click and drag to draw box and I'm going to put some text out here and I'm gonna type of this really great quote that I made up and I thought I made it up there's probably something similar in the world but I have the pictures of the butterflies that we use earlier so we're going to make this fun butterfly acting and so I thought we would make this quote that says every butter five was once a caterpillar and I think that's appropriate for photo shop week too right? Especially if you're new to photo shop you may feel like a caterpillar right now but you can become a butterfly so by the end of the week you will be flying high with all kinds of new skills so text is going to be one of them so I got some texts that I just kind of dumped out here on my page and then styling it is best done after you get your text out there so sometimes when I see people working with text sometimes they start typing and then they're like oh it's green and it's in cursive and I don't like that and so they want to change it on dh choose the perfect type face before they've even typed anything out so that's really hard because you're trying to style type that doesn't even exist on the page yet so it's easier if you type type it out first and then we can go in and stylized everything so we'll talk about this once we draw out the text box and we put our type in it we can then we can edit it or if let's just say for the moment that we're happy with it where it is we need to set our type right and we can do that in a couple of ways one is up here in the options bar we have cancel button and we have a commitment so if I hit the commit button that will set the type that's what I call it it sets it so that the box is gone and now we can go about our other photo shop business one other option that I end up doing more frequently is I press command and then enter and that will do the same thing but you want to make sure you add command because if you don't and you just hit return what happens? You get a return right? You get a line break so what you want to do is command enter or if you have a number pad on your keyboard you can hit actually the enter on the number of pad but it seems easier for some reason to just hit command dinner or on a pc control center, so let's, talk about what's going on in our layers, palate any time that you add a type up to your document photo shop is so smart, but it's going to add a new type player for you? Don't we will first shot will end the type player for us. So in the layers palette, we see this big old t over here that represents a type player and it's even smart enough to name the layer with the text that we have in the box so that's kind of cool on dh, then if we want to go ahead and start styling this, we have a couple of options. Once they're text is set so that our box is gone, we can actually change the color, for example, or the typeface or any of that without having to highlight anything so, like if you've used other programs like that's, not a design program. But if you used word or you know something like that, when you're changing your type, you have to select it in order to change it. But in photo shop, if you want to make an adjustment to the whole layer, you don't have to do that. So that means we could come up here into our options bar and this is where we choose our typefaces and I could come in here and change this whole thing teo I don't know copper plate so there so we don't have to highlight we could just change it we can change the color to buy either clicking up in here and picking you know, a color or what I usually end up doing is ill have some kind of color down here and then I'll just do the keyboard shortcut for phil so if I want to fill with my foreground on a mac it's going to be option delete on a pc it's going to be oh the reverse of that it's all delete yeah which is in the keys are rivers so I always get confused but yes, all delete and that will fill it with your foreground color or of course it can do the same with the background so that's just the keyboard shortcut for that so I end up doing that a lot so that kind of handy in that sense but let's talk about changing each of this these words individually in order to do that we have to get back into the text box and highlight the words we want to adjust and this can be a little dangerous if you've worked with the type tool before you may have fallen prey to what I call rogue type players and what that means is you think you have the best intentions of swooping in and highlighting a word like every right but instead you might miss so you see the how the cursor changes and like if I'm in this spot I get the ibm cursory which is going to insert a cursor into the existing box but if I just move a bit oh gosh right there and I click and I drag and I think I'm highlighting poops in reality I have made a rogue type player so and I know that because I look in the layers panel and I see that I have this new type player called layer one and I didn't mean that's happened and this will happen to you all the time I still do that thing every other day it's sort of frustrating so to get out of that if you just press escape you'll cancel out of it and I believe that if you hit now I'm lying there's another there's a shortcut way too that you can avoid that entirely but if you make it by accident anyway go ahead and hit escape and it will cancel out of that so a little something that's a little easier is if you just put your butt your cursor in where the box would be and just give it a click that'll pop the box up and then you can swoop in and start highlighting words so we're going to do that so I'm going to select this this word every and I'm going to change this to something called miria standard on so this has changed in in the typefaces changed I can change the size to up here we have of course, our point size with dropped down so I can choose pre selected point sizes but how you suppose that it's kind of useful but in reality I really just want to scrub this thing and make it big. So this is so awesome and photo shop we can hover over the tease right here and I'll get this double headed arrow and then I can just click and drag to the right and make the word as biggest, right? Awesome, right? So that's called scrubbing, so I'm a fan of that, so I'll scrub that to be perhaps like that on let's change this will change the word butterfly to a font that I purchased that I'm kind of obsessed with called insulin tade and we will change can see it we just want regular insulin today, my bad insolent here we go, butterfly now looks like that, right? We're getting somewhere we're getting close now how do we know what type of fonts we want to use and what it's going to look like? Well, if we come with the type tool if we come up into this dropdown box we'll see the names of the forest that are installed on our system and over here we see a sample of what that front looks like so you have a couple of different options here you can't change in your preferences we can change we can change the way that these fonts preview so if we come up to the type menu we can come down to font preview size and our choices are and I laughed out loud when I saw this the first time none small medium large extra large or huge funny right I almost fell out of my chair of is like huge I think they should have put like giant enormous there's something like really hilarious but he is so funny so we could change that to huge and then when we when we come up here way huge sample so they are they are really quite huge but maybe I guess this is this is nice but it's sometimes even more of an advantage if we can see the text that we are talking about using on especially with like a dingbat sort of typeface you can't see all of the ding bats right here you can't see all the characters so I would like to introduce you to something called a font manager okay now this is not required obviously but oh my gosh if you love typography and you are a font maniac a font of yeah, holik I guess on dh you've got all these funds on your system. This is really helpful and that's for several reasons. One tight managers are great because they manage your typefaces and you may think what? What do you have to manage about typefaces like they're just funds, but fonts are our little buggers sometimes, and they can get corrupt on your system. They can cause photoshopped to crash. So if you are having a situation where you feel like photoshopped crashes a lot on you, it could be because of your fonts who would have known, right? How would you have known? But it could very well be your funds. So the other thing is, too, if you, like me, have hundreds and hundreds of fonts, it really bogged down your your computer to have tio keep all of those active and available to you. You may have noticed if you click on the type tool, it takes a minute to sort of initialize and load, and a lot of that could be related to how many funds you've got going on. So what a farm manager does is it keeps your funds from getting corrupted, and it can have your whole it'll manager whole library of fonts, and you may have a thousand fonts, but maybe only have fifty that are active does that make sense so you can turn some of them on and off to make them active or inactive and what's really great about this particular front manager this is font explorer ex pro so you can download a free trial if you don't already have it it'll work I think it's thirty day trial yeah so you can down it's only eighty bucks if you buy it but it's really great because it will also manage that for you so if you open a photoshopped document that has an existing typeface in it that is on your system but you have deactivated it other fired managers will tell you all that's inactive you better go activate that real quick and you're like I don't have time for that but five for ex pro will activate it for you it'll just say oh you're for it needs to be activated and it will do it for you so that's really a nice advantage so how does this work well you can come in here and you can make sets of fonts which is also nice so you can group them for like if you have fonts that you use for certain clients or certain kinds of projects you can group them and make fine you know collections but what's really cool is you can come in here and weaken type something that we want to check out like every butterfly was once a cat a our killer and anyway, once you get in here then you can click on it and it will show you the funt down here so you can preview it so you can imagine how useful this is for ding bats so we'll come back to this in a minute when we get into something that business but way we're going to have something that action happening right here so you mean there's a really awesome, so I highly recommend that you make use of a fund manager because they're great like that and I mean it really easy to pick your funds on you can really see what you're doing so and I happen to know that I want to change this the why we want to make a little difference that we'll talk more about alternates and stuff in a minute, so we'll get this done, um we'll change this teo front called schoolhouse print and we'll change caterpillar tio, another font that I'm kind of obsessed with gentle, bold all right, so then its styling this stuff is this simple of coming in here, and I can select each word at a time and adjust it how I want as far as size goes now, one of the things we should talk about why we're here is some other font typography, tools, right? Things like adjusting leading and kerney if those are new words steal then I'm super excited they're really fun so let's talk about it first of all, letting refers to the space between lines of type so if you are like I remember and, you know, junior high and stuff writing my papers and word and then I would get all excited when I could double space it because it would take up more room and I don't have to I didn't write it, but, um, double spacing is not really how you want to control your type in a design environment, right? Like word is not a design environs, so in photos off, we can actually designer type, and we don't want to do that by just adding returns and stuff we want to actually kraft are text properly, so that means changing the leading. So to do that, I can highlight this line of type. And then I went to open up my paragraph. Whoa, we have a lot of stuff going on here. Oh, this is character. We won't open our paragraph panel let's nest those babies. There we go. S o when you get in here and in the character and the character panel over here, we see this little button and you may have wondered, what the heck is that there's two little a's stacked on top of each other, and this represents the line spacing called letting so I can click on here and I can drag this and you'll see that it scoots this line up or down, right. So instead of adding double returns or triple returns and then it's too, too much it's a game, goldilocks, right. Too much weights, not enough speed back and forth all day, and it makes editing a nightmare. Instead, you want to just adjust your letting so you can do that right here and, um, trivia fact for you, it's called, letting like sometimes people call it leading, they may pronounce it leaving, but that's not correct, it's pronounced, letting because back in the day when we had type on a press right and someone was actually placing, they were setting their type little blocks of text. They would separate the lines of type with strips of lead and the with of the lead strip determine how far apart those lines of text were from one another, so that way still call it letting to this day. So if you are on jeopardy, I hope you win with that. So anyhow, so we'll finish styling this out here. So we've adjusted the leading a little bit and then this line right here, I need this it's on the same line is caterpillar, but it needs to bump up a little bit, so over here we have a baseline shift option, so this is where you can make, you know, superscript if you want to have, um, you know, like something that squared and you went a little too to be up above or down below our subscript that's what you can do with this, so I'm just going to select that and I can just scrub it like like everything else and finish up until I get this in line with where I want it and that's looking pretty, pretty decent, so then I might just come in and change the color, so that might be a simple is coming up here in clicking this and will choose oh, another thing we could do to is we can change the case is over here in the character panel, I can take the word every and if I wanted to be in all caps, I can come over here and just click this little button and it will convert it to all caps, so I don't know if we don't know if we want that I haven't played with it and we have to make it smaller, I guess. Can I liked it better the other way but you could do that um so there's all kinds of different options we'll go ahead and bump this bigger we'll change some colors in here get thiss there we go on and maybe make that we're getting close way are getting close which we dio purple I don't know good uh now oh no no um green I don't know so there we have it okay um any question one that part so far pretty straightforward then once you once you set your type box of course just like anything you can use the move tool to drag that around and position it you know however you want and then this was my fun little my fun little with our butterfly brushes that we made earlier so you can make your own quotes and put him on instagram and all that fun stuff I'm kind of become a junkie with some of that stuff so all right so that's a basic typography so we talked about size and changing the size and the color and the typeface andi talked about letting turning I guess we didn't talk about turning let's get back in here turning is the spacing between letters so I don't know that I would really kern much here some types faces have turning built into them so sometimes people wonder what's the difference between like the free fonts that you buy and not free phones besides that it cost you money a lot of times the professionally designed ponte wants that you pay for it they're gonna have turning built into the front which means for example if we have like a capital w and we have a lower case e this is probably not the best example of a typeface to show you this to you in but aa lot of times for example let's try if we change this to like times yes okay you see the space here the w because it's so wide like this it ends up often pushing like a lower case e away from it so kern ing would allow us to get in here and tuck tuck that e in a little more appropriate lee so andi photos will do that by by itself on typefaces that don't have turning built into certain pairs of letters a photo shop will try to do that my optically doing it but sometimes you know it's great sometimes it's not so over here you'll see that there's an option for metrics and there is an option for optical so if you change it to optical photoshopped will try but sometimes it's not so great so you may want to tweak it um to get it where you want and those are the types of things that you know expensive fonts come with often so you don't have to worry about it but nifty stuff media standard there we are all right so so that's turning and um letting you can also adjust over here this is adjusting tracking so if I wanted for example, if I wanted to take the word butterfly and spread out the letters I could select it and then over here in the character pellet if I dragged that out it will just spread out those letters so they're a little further away from each other but often unless you really have a special need for that, you probably would end up just leaving it kind of set where it is all right let's move on tio this other fund example so we can talk about doing that because who doesn't love dean that's, right? Okay, so I think that's so we're going to use this really great font that I just thought the other day that I have been like I've had it up on my system for like I'm not giving you like two months it's been in an open tab in my browser and I'm like I want that fun I want that for it and then I was all of now I have a great excuse to just by it so I did um and also you have looks like and how you can tell really what you're dealing with so this particular fund is called ride my bike ride my bike dingbat and once you pull it up in font explorer pros, I can search by name for a typeface by one. I can pull it up here it is funding bad ride my bike thing. That and down here we see the characters. But how do I know what, what all the characters are and how do I know how to get them on my keyboard? Right? Because some programs, like in design has what's called a gl if panel, if you've ever used in design and the glitch panel shows you every symbol that's in a font but voters that doesn't have a glitch panel. So that's another bonus when it comes tio, a fund manager like fun, explore pro so once I once I find the fight right here, if I come up here and I click information oh, ok here's the holding back collection so it's called ride my bike and that's really fun because it has fun things like bikes. So let's say that I like this one right here. So if I click on that, it shows me that the key stroke to get this character is shift. See so it's a capital c so before I knew all of this stuff I would actually type out like the whole alphabet right maybe you've done this because I'd be like oh what are already doing that so I type out the whole alphabet and then I do it again in capital letters because that's different rate numbers are also different so like what else would you d'oh because if you don't have a glitch panel and you don't have something like a fart manager or like in design has a cliff panel you're kind of you don't know so that's why it's great so anyway we see that it's shift seat so I can come back tio here and I'll pull out my type tool and there we are and then I'm just going to click with it and I'm going toe I guess we can just do a capital c in myriad and then I can select this and will change tio ride my bike king bets there it is so how fun is that nice write another way you can also adjust your type is just with command t so sometimes if something is photoshopped it won't let you go past a certain size for your type faces but you can kind of work around that if you max out and finish up once you get your type where you need it you can also just control t and then scale it and because it specter are you don't have to worry about resolution and all that stuff ok, so we've got this character here and what we're going to do is actually put some text that's going toe roll around the wheel right here so this is called making text on a path, so I want I want to make the full bigger we'll make text on a path now in order to get a path, you can do a lot of things, you can draw a path yourself with the pen tool, you can use a shape, right? We saw shapes earlier when we made our heart brush so you can use the shape to get a path or you can use ding bats and or letters I mean, you could just type any letter you could type of the letter o and then you can convert that to a path and then put text around the letter like anything was possible. So what we're going to do is take this type and now we're going to convert it to outlines coming teo the type player type menu looks easy on we'll come down here to where it says convert to shape so when I click that so type convert to shape now take a look at our layers panel so we have the tea that was there when we typed our capital c but now it's not a type player anymore it's a shape and that means we have access to paths so that's really easy because putting text on a path is simple, you just used the same old type tool, and then you position your cursor to see how you get this little wavy crecer like here we have a square with the I beam, but if I get close to the path, I get this curved situation happening, so I'm going to click right here and I have this monstrously joy enormous text so let's, normally I wouldn't size the text first, but when you're typing on a path if you don't, it can become a bit of a nightmare because the text is curbing all over the place and it's crazy, so we'll make it kind of small and we'll type the words joy reid and we're ending bats, so it doesn't mean anything, but we'll come up here and change the typeface to ride my bike pro, and we'll go ahead and make it a little larger now we can see it there it is, and if we want to get it off of the wheel right, we're going to go back over to our character panel and we'll just come down to this what we did before with our baseline shift and I'm just going to click on that and just scroll to the right and weaken bumped the text off the baseline so the baseline is the winner path of this wheel but if we leave the text on the base baseline than it's running over the wheel and that's no good so we'll just go ahead and bump this up like this and that's not too shabby but we're not done yet oh no, we're not done yet so the next thing we're going to dio is I guess we can add another I was going to add another ding bat in here because I love doing that's so we'll put in a little heart one more time back toward dingbats let's see there's several heart options in here kind of heart mania let's do a star we'll switch it up a little bit so I see that the key stroke for the stars plus right and I would have never found that if I was typing out that way wait I want to talk about the album it so we'll hit shift um plus did I run out of room? It helps if you're back in photo shop shift to get this little plus symbol and then we'll just change this back into dingbats we get a fun little star and we got to make the whole thing a little smaller now we're running out of room all right so that's looking good and we think we have an extra space there oh yeah we could change alternates here too, so what does that mean in the six we now have the ability to change stylistic alternates in our text what the heck that means that I can come in for example and take this oh, and if I select it in my character panel you see this little button here and not every typeface has list this is another advantage of barring typefaces this has what are called stylistic alternates several demons you conceal us um if I click on this it changes from a regular o to a fancy oh, right and maybe the j maybe we want to get fancy with r j oh, I like the other day better oh, I like that why? So you can kind of go through your text and you don't have quite as much control as you would in some characters may not have alternates who um so you can play with it there's a look at the little dealy bop on the um something some characters may not have alternates so in which case then this is not going to be showing up right? So that would be grade out um but then some do so that could be really fun and it's a great way to really have awesome you know a good time with your oh my gosh with your type we have some fun with this I just made it all the same color deny oh silly me there we go so that is text on a path and some alternates s so that's another good reason why you wantto by some of these bonds if you don't use a font manager, you still have some options so for example here's another ending back want some resource is for finding thoughts are places like different dot com that's what this is right here and they're all in the resource guide so different that calm my funds dot com veer dot com um here's an example of a ding back front and if if you're wondering how would you ever know what characters are, what if you don't have a tight manager or a glitch panel some but not all but some fonts will show you what's called a character map so that's what? This is so in this character map we can see that you know capital h is this and capital q is this so that's another way tio be able to find out this stuff? Here's another fun, fun over on my fonts dot com this is mr dawg dawg and they're all these fine like look at this how crazy right on so this tells you it's a capital w so there are ways around it you don't have to have a foreign manager, but it just it sure does make it a lot easier okay, so on we could finish this out of course we want have some fun with our sheeps so we might come back up here and grab it's that little burst it's so hard to see stuff sometimes um uh like not this one I guess we could use it in a pinch all right, huh? So we can make some clouds going on in our bike picture happy little clouds conveniently all kind of off screen because they are really circles been like kind of fun we'll drag it behind the bag so that's text on a path. The other thing I was going to show you when we talk about when we talk about these other tools over here like the type tool on dh we talked about the vertical type too long you don't want to use that unless you're actually setting verdict we'll pipe like japanese or something but there's also the type masking tools let's use a front that you can see easily like impact what they dio is they give you marching ants in the shape of letters that's what I meant to say so something like this on dh that's nice because you can you know, do anything with it but you can now do with selections but I never use it because instead what I would do is just use the regular horizontal type tool because then I can type stuff like sun set and we'll set it in something like another great funt that I acquired recently called thirsty rough and it's cool because it has and have all this built in like distress distressing going on so you can kind of see it's it's rough but what I do with it is I'll make the type player something like this and then instead of making ants and all of that like let's say I want the sunset too fill those letters in the layers pal if I dragged the sunset above the type player and then I option or all click I can now position the sunset within the text and yes, you could do this if you did the masking tool however what if I want this to say sunrise now if I had just styled thing you get one went ran because you would have to rebuild your whole type you have to start over and this is easy it's just one word and what not but if you had really crafted like some amazing word art and suddenly you're like oh now I want to change it and you crafted the whole thing out of ants you're pretty limited like you'd have to start over because it doesn't exist it's just so I like to do it with the regular time tool because then I could come in and I could just change this say son, you know sunrise sunrise, sunset that way we could do that all day I won't sing for you but uh so that's one option rates you could do it like this you could also, um put ants around your text at any time by simply control or command clicking on the thumbnail of the text so if you really are like I want my aunts you can get them but I would recommend making a normal type there first and then turning it into ants because that way you could do whatever you want to do with your aunts but you still have the type there if you need to come back to it and make edits and it's just a way easier so maybe that means that you come up into your into your sunrise layer and maybe you at an adjustment layer here for levels or something and now you you've got this going I get whatever there you go so there are ways around that that's what I would do instead of using the one of the masking tools so I don't know that you have a question how did we ok, so we'll just kind of do this again real quick way want to delete this holier yes analyst sorry. So first the first round that I did was I just play some text on here and then if I want to just have the image of the sunrise or sunset technically if I want to have that appear in the text I just want a position the text underneath that's that image layer and then if I hold down the altar or option key and I hover my cursor in between the two I can clip it so that the sunrise photo on lee appears on the text and so that allows me to move the president I can reposition the photo within the tech or I could grab the text and reposition it you know, in the photo as well and then the reverse of that sort of the total opposite I guess is if I wanted we'll put this back in position maybe I really just want ants around this and then I want to use that to make an adjustment layer of some sort then I could come down with an active by control clicking on the thumbnail of that type player right that's how you load your aunt's around it so I got my type player I control click the thumbnail then I want to hide the type where I'm only using it have a sensible for my aunt's basically then I can hide it then I can come down and grab thehe just mint layer icon and you know, choose your adjustment aiken do levels you can do hughes saturation whatever andre do something like this and then you know we can reposition this wherever we want but the nice thing is that it's in this case I guess it is editable still, but this is a little less editable in the sense that we've got a mask now. So if I decide oh, I want a different mask here because I want to change the word back to sunset. Then if I hide this turn my word on put it, I guess wherever I want it then I can edit my word back to sunset load my aunt's, hide the word, come back to my adjustment layer. But now and we have to hide this first, so we'll fill the adjustment layer the mask to clear it. And then if we load our ants back, we can fill that back in with white it's. So now it's a sensitive so it gives you the ability to read it your text a little bit more than if you had just made it with via the marching ants. So, good stuff. Any other questions on that one? Yeah, it's not related to the masking specifically. When we were looking at the fund manager, I noticed that just the left of each font there was one of three different little indicators about see their red tier oh, what does that mean? Yeah, that's a great question, so there's different types of font files um there is open type format they're just different formats just like in photo shop we have like tape it and we have pity and all these different moments in the type world there's three different formats basically we have open type way have ah no I'm during a blink we have to type fonts, open type fonts and post script faces so is just the way that the file is built and open type is becoming more and more popular not every program supports every type of funt but more and more open type fonts are where it's at I guess I would say because they can contain more characters we would call them bliss so they contained they can contain thousands of glitz as opposed to maybe only one hundred ish couple hundred or something so they can have a lot more characters which is great there's a really great typeface that you like swash she really pretty ornate calligraphy type typefaces there's one called audio's script and it's available from my father are that my funds are veer that one might be on veer I think that's on here but anyway I think it's like one hundred bucks or something around there but it has like fifteen hundred care like cliffs and even I really like it because even I think somewhere in the description it sounds like the lower case eight alone has like forty three different versions of a lower case eight great it's awesome. So that's just that's just a little indicator right here is just telling you what type of fun file it is for practical purposes we would operate and interact with all the different files the same way it's just that summer capable of other things so those features in photo shop when we were looking at this this file here the features that enable us to change the you know, to have fancy letters or not fancy letters this is called stylistic alternates and this is a feature of open typeface yeah open type funds so if I had selected a type that was not, um supportive of that or had no other characters whatever this would be great out so you don't have access to all of that also in the menu over here we can see there's a whole open type sub menu so within the character panel if I come up to the panel menu itself there is an open type option and you can see like this typeface only has stylistic alternates but some other typefaces have every other time they have or nels and ornaments and fractions ordina lt's air like kind of old fashioned letters are not letters numbers so like the numbers are a little smaller and they may sit below the baseline like you'll know when you see it there really kind of old timey and cute eso though they're all functions of open type all right, thank you there you go along and I can't imagine reading through fourteen hundred different book I know that's why having you know if you're really doing a lot of typesetting I mean like large body copy that you probably would be doing that in something like in design because you have a glimpse panel and you have you know, some other tools but but in finish up we do now now we do have from stylistic alternates which is really cool so that's really nice on dh then of course, if you where is my stuff down here the having something like ah front manager makes that a lot easier to be able to pick your picketing beth and it's also great to when you're choosing typefaces to go through like you can go through your whole system of funds and you can you know, see your type down here and as you go through if you're like oh, I like how this looks in this spot if you hit command plus it'll create what's called an ad hoc set, so if you're like, I can't decide I like this I like thiss whatever you can just add them to this ad hoc set which then makes it really easy to go through and be like all right out of these five typefaces, which is the one that I want for this project so those of you that are into five like I'm so excited for you because you're gonna love having a tight manager it's so great um that's really that's really cool it you have to put in a little public service announcement for if you want to learn more about typography right? Because we know the expression that with great power comes great responsibility right? So thunderstorms really powerful and as you can see, we have all these awesome options in ways that we can do stuff but we need to then learn how to use it responsibly I guess was my point um and that means getting some education in typography and design. So a really great book that I recommend it called the non designers design book by robin williams so I'd recommend checking that out you khun you know, buy at your local bookstore online or whatever but that's a really great resource there's another one called how do you design cool stuff by john mcquaid over at before and after magazine and that's a really great book. So for less than fifty bucks you can get two really great books that will teach you how to use typography responsibly, which is important, right um and if you really want to geek out I mean seriously geek out which I highly recommend right um check out the documentary called helvetica yes some of you have seen it you know that you can attest I'm not crazy I'm not making this up it is really awesome it streams you know, on netflix or whatever but you can also if you go to helvetica film dot com you can watch it there rented there as well and it's just fascinating and I think we tend to take funds for granted a lot of times if you're really haven't studied typography and studied fonts and the design of them we sort of think but you know they just come with the computer they're like ubiquitous they're everywhere like we just we have them and we don't really think about how they got there and the truth is a human crafted them and we you know, it's photographers we craft images but type designers craft typography and it's so amazing and you get a little glimpse of it if you watch that documentary so we'll have a whole new appreciation for all your ding bats and doodads and silly stuff is really amazing so that said let me just show you quickly now that I can see that this is going to cooperate with me text on a path so we've got the type here and I told you that we can shift it around and yes, we can so to do that you want to use your path selection tool and then you see this little knowed right here I guess if I click on that I can click and then drag to fee their flip the type over so it appears on the other side of the circle or I can shift it around the circle as well. So in case you know, you were I mean, really when you put text on a path very rarely does it just land where you wanted tio I mean, it kind of did this time and I don't know how I got that lucky that's not how it works that's not how it really happens usually type it and then you're like, oh, crap it's us slow down and backwards and whatever you have to flip it around and drag it in position it like this so what you do is once you set your type, then you can come over here and pick up the path reflection tool so there's two past election in direct selection you want the past like sensual and that will let you grab this little dealy bob and then you can scoot around or flip it over um in this case that becomes a jumbled mess because now it's slipped inside the circle, so here that doesn't work really well, but you could style it it have to be smaller and all that but that's how you work with your text on a path so is really kind of exciting so keep in mind you could do that with your shapes or you're doing death it just has to be a path so if you find anything back that you like you can just convert it to a shape and then go to town with it so very very cool I'm trying to think if I'm forgetting anything about theirs are whales from way also I guess I should talk we haven't used really like paragraph text here so I don't we don't have any big blocks of text because like I said usually if you're doing big blocks of text you're going to be an indesign right you wouldn't use photo shop to like lay out a magazine or something that would be an in design but so I don't do a lot of paragraph styling in photoshopped however as we saw when we were making this action earlier maybe I can get my layers back here when I placed all the text in here I was adjusting the alignment over here in the paragraph panel so we can you know just like you've seen in programs like word even you get a line left or center or right and then we can justify to so in this case because I was trying to emulate newsprint oftentimes that's going to be justified so that's what these are for over here you can also control whether or not hyphenation happens in your text so you have a big old body of type let's pick one that's not sideways I don't know which one is which down here. Mmm mmm mmm way will control command click there we go. All right, give me the whole set. Perfect. All right, so if I wanted tio like, turn off hyphenation here if I select all of this I can just come over and haif mater on high for me you know, that's up to you um but you can really alter your texas way you also have the ability to incent like a margin I guess not a margin for your whole text but for a particular line so you can invent on either side and you can also change the space before and after paragraphs so you have all kinds of options and also now in cia six you have styles which that's another advance feature but you can create it's basically like a collection of attributes. So you can say I want all my text to be styled like my headline to be this type and you khun style it and create like a tag so you can tag your text and it'll take those attributes so you don't have to choose the typeface and she's all that every time that's a new thing and indesign herb photos up six that's really cool, eh? So they just keep adding lots more fun stuff to this and very cool we're close on time right? I don't know what I forget exactly when we were ending but are there do you guys have any other questions at this point on that front manager does it take all the fonts than that are already in voter shop or do you have to buy funds to put in it okay with you let's talk about that because sometimes people get really confused about how far exist on your hard drive and where they live and all that so the funds that you have on your hard drive are they're just for your your whole system so whatever type cases you have they should be readable whether you're typing a memo and inward or you're designing something in photo shop or design or you know whatever so it should just be accessible to any software that can read that type of format so that that doesn't mean however, not every piece of software can make use of all of the bonus features, so the open type face hoping open type file format for funds has a lot of bonus features like this washes on dh stylistic alternates on things like ligatures was a really cool on dh some some programs will read that some won't so like word I think where it'll read ligatures but I don't think you can like access stylistic alternates and things inward so it kind of depends on the program but when you install a fund manager it will basically re alive it'll know where your funds are and it will say hey, do you want to manage your funds from their current location or it will ask you if you want to move them somewhere but it'll handle it all for you and when you install new fonts all you have to do once you download them is you come up here and click import and you navigate to it and it just pops right in and handle that for you so you don't have to go into your font system folder and dump I mean it really becomes a massive maritime limit so who like hopefully we're all good with our photo organization, right? We've got light room figured out maybe um and now you can use this to organize your funds and it's really right the first time that I installed it'll it'll pop up and tell you like, hey, do you want to clean your font cash? And I was like, oh, that sounds good and when I cleaned it it sped up my computer like nobody's business like fonts are notorious for being little buggers like they go corrupt and they just cause problems with your system all over the place so it's a great idea to go ahead and and make use of a fund manager andi will keep your cash clean and that kind of stuff too so evelyn salt for you and it's great and also manages your licenses as well and the artists that designed it so if you have a free fun if you download free funds, you just always got to make sure that you have a license to be able to use it right? Because if they're free usually that means you only get it for personal use not so much for you know, commercial use so you want to make sure that you know the license that you have and the fund manager will help you with that and it keeps track just like a photo has metadata the farm manager can read the metadata for the fun so it knows like where who designed it where it came from? S so you can check your license and all of that it's really? Yeah so did you have a question I had to but now I have three oh speaking of the licensing, so we've you've broadcast these fonts people use fonts and youtube videos and stuff like that uh does the licensing provisions that come with the various fonts cover or not cover those usually decisions very between funds but usually usually it will be like you either only get it for personal use or it will just say commercial use and they don't always I mean if you're buying it for commercial use, then you can just use it they don't usually specify you know limitations on that but when in doubt you know just read read the license and it's really cool too because type designers you know they're all over the world obviously and so a lot of times when I've bought funds or I've downloaded like free funds and then later decided I wanted to use it commercially and in the little read me file that came with it before I had a type man is earth um I opened up the read me file and it was like, hey, if you want to use my phone commercially you know, contact me here and so I did and then he was like send me twenty five bucks like on paypal or whatever and he was from denmark and so I send in twenty five bucks and then I could use the fun personally and I and I could sleep well at night so you know, obviously the type designers are artists just leads photographers our artists so we want to make sure we respect all of that and and sleep well at night but yeah, they're usually it's usually pretty cut and dry awesome the same question was I noticed in the font or the character in paragraph um panels were you using the cool thing where you can hover over the iconic dragged to the left or the right to do the real time resizing on all of those things yeah you can do it right here yeah not just the little one in the tool bar with the top like you can scrub on all of these things that's which is great because when you're choosing letting and stuff for example it's really hard to know what's going to be right so I pretty much never to buy like a number because who knows? So I would just scrabble of us so you can see here it's scrubbing out we have a lot of lines facing or not so much so yeah it makes it really easy blossom and the last thing was I remember at least back when I first started getting the computers and this was like common or sixty four days used to buy like packs of clip art it looks like now with the fonts and everything like that you're showing in the ding all these various thing best things that looks like that's almost like the new way these things are being distributed now is that right? Yeah that's a great observation so a lot of times you can purchase your florence your ding bath collection and use it like clip art you know so you can turn it into brushes you could turn it into shape you can just use it as a text and the great thing is that it's all vector so you don't have to worry about your resolution limitations in any of that and it's so fun I mean, it's just I've enjoyed learning more and more and more about fonts and you meet really interesting people and it's a very cool it's a cool thing so I encourage you guys tio reach out and learn more about it because those photographers we do such a great job of learning lots about, um, photo stuff, but type is really cool too, and we use it obviously in our photos, but we don't always think to go out and learn more about types perfectly so that's why those books are really great, andi also websites like fonts, france dot com has some great resource is as well for just learning more about choosing typefaces and all of that kind of stuff. So the skies I'm trying to think of what else is really fun and I guess little known about typography um, did we get the whole text on a path thing? Because I know it kind of botched that on the first go around, um but that could be like can be really fun. Of course, I guess I can show you when you make your own path. If you just use the pen tool you can, you know, click and drag out your own oops when you use it not as shape, but just as a path you can drag out your own passes well and then he would just get that same same type tool and you can be like we wait and this is where you know be able to space it out comes in handy because the letters on a past can get really jump early and these kind of dips like this so I would probably go back tio ride my bike not going back but pro we and let's see this is my big a candidate for you not so much for adjusting some of this will set the type and grab our there we go oh here so you see how you flip it if I drag so if I want to flip the type over on the other direction I just have the with the past election tool I can just click on this and then if I pull straight down it just flips it so you know, it is upside down now but maybe you want that for example if you were putting text around a circle you might want you might want it all the way around on the inside or the outside or whatever so this is how you would accomplish that one of the other things we should talk about for sure to is what's going on in our character panel over here we've got all these little tease and we've got we have the ability to make caps a lower not lower case cap they're called small cap but you may also notice and it won't come up here the little tag if I hover over this never on cue but anyway, this is called so bold and we have so I talic and you may be wondering what is that and like it found it is fake like phony phony boldness. So what does that mean and why is it even here? Well, typefaces generally if you're buying like a professional collection of typefaces, you will notice, for example, when I bought ride my bike pro the whole family and so that includes an italic version a regular, which is also sometimes called roman sometimes regulars just referred to his roman bold and then and then it even has a bold italic but sometimes a certain font, particularly the freebie fonts because they're free. So a lot of designers will design free funds that they kind of put out to get their name out there, but you know they're not going to give you the whole the whole golden hen our goose or whatever for free so they may make a simple typeface that doesn't have a bold it doesn't have an eye, talic so if you've ever had that and then you're like, how come I can't make this fine italic and I can't make it bold it's because the designer did not include those versions with the typeface so sometimes it may be because I just didn't make it at all, and some typefaces don't need bold, right? Like a display fund that's really very graphical and very just not something you would ever use for, like body copy, you wouldn't probably have a bold version of that because that would just be weird. So not everybody has both, but also not every designer includes it or they may sell it separately. So, like when I bought this ride, my bike fun, I bought the whole collection with, so that made it, you know, much pricier, but if you were like, I really love this, but I don't want to pay whatever it costs you can also often by just metallic or just bold or whatever, but anyway, all of that aside photoshopped, then gives you the ability to fake it. So if you have a typeface that ellen, how bold you can fake it by coming over here and turning on faux bold, however it's, not really a good idea, it's not really best practices because, like, like so many things in life really is just the better deal, right? So when you fake it and put us up with bold, what it's really doing is just taking those letter forms and literally like fattening them up. And it may look ok on our screen, but when you go to print it sometimes that can really turn out to be a disaster because especially if you're trying to print to you like a post script printer, they don't have the letter forms for that bold so it can actually be a problem on the other thing is you run the risk and here it's not really doing it asleep not on screen, but you also run the risk particularly with letters like lower case ese if you fatten them up you potentially depending on their shape you could swell the little opening shut and then it wouldn't look like an anymore just be kind of a blob. So the difference is when a designer designs a bold version or an a talent version of their typeface, they're actually handcrafting those like every character I mean this is what's so mind blowing to me because we just think, oh, it's all my computer like it just exists but somebody drew all of those letters and all those shapes. So then they carefully draw a bold version so that they that the counters and things like the cut outs in the eve they don't swell shut on dh saying what I tell like they don't just take all the letters and distort them you know their hand tooling all of those things and in a different version for whether it's capitals or lower cases or what have you so there's a lot of craft that goes into that um so anyway you don't want to take it so even though this is here, I would really I suggest that you don't use it and if you if you feel like you need something bold, then you know, find a typeface that has bowled on been invested that you know, your front collection is relieved it's really an investment just like just like when you invested in photography tools and software and things like photo shop um, investing in your typefaces is really great to that'll make make life a lot a lot easier and give you some really amazing stuff, so and then the manager just makes it all that much more doable, so I have you guys enjoy back I'm I'm still in love with that thing but way also have caps and small caps and superscript and sub script and underlying and strike through as well well and then these little buttons represent the same things that you would find over here if you came into this menu and you came to the open type again this only works with open type faces typefaces eso if you're using like a true type font, this menu would be great act because these are all characteristics that are only found in open type funds, so that was why we saw the's different icons let me cancel will go back to all of us that's what all these different icons are over here so the o's are becoming more popular and there is they're so well supported now that aa lot more programs are reading them and they're just really cool it can do a lot of neat things so let's see um we talked about clipping this stuff um you can also warp your text we can do some of that human I haven't worked anything I don't do a lot of working personally but we could so I'll show u s so let's say we've got this type right here this button right here will bring up warping and this will allow us to choose all kinds of different warping so like art an arch distortion might be one that's popular I guess you know what let's make this a little smaller just so we have room for a war being warping takes takes space here there we go um so again you can come up with your type tool in the options bar there's this little picture of a tea on a hill and if we click on that then were able to come down here and choose from several different types of distortions that you can do to your text so like art and bulging your text we like that um fish I could make fish scitex you can have flagged text I mean all kinds of crazy stuff and obviously some of these air very you know specific use only but that's text warping another thing that you may run into with type is if you're trying to run filters and things you might you might try to run actions or filters or things on type to really add effects to it and you may run into the message for example if we tried to blur this this is just one example but if we tried to run a blur on the text we're going to get this message that's going to say the type player must be rast arise before proceeding so like you might run into this if you take text and then you were going toe like what same let's say that we were going to take this text and make a shadow of it and flip it like this and we're gonna have it um down here and let's say it's going to be cast shadows so it's gonna be down here maybe we want to distort it or something but because it's a shadow we should probably add like a nice blur so if we come up to the filter menu and we come tio blur gazi and blur we're gonna get this message and it's going to say this type player must be rast arise before proceeding and its text will no longer be editable, huh but scary so what that just means is that in order to compute the blur it means to be pixels because that blur is a pixel command and our text is made out of victor shapes so it can't blur it so notice way still have the t over here which means it's editable even though it's upside down I can still go in and change it to say you know if I have another type o and caterpillar it can go in and fix it but once I do this right click ok boom now if we look at our type player it the tea is gone because of now it's not text now it's it's pixels which is cool because now I can blur it you know a lot or a little or whatever but maybe they do a soft little blur on this and then I can bring up free transform and we can do some you know distortion maybe it's depending where our light sources who knows where we'd want us to be but whatever s o we can distort stuff like that but in order to pull that off we'd have to get rid of the vector at its ability so we're doing a trade off so we're able to blur it but we're giving up the ability to edit that for some functions so some things you can actually do quite a bit of amazing things without having to rest arise your type but for some there's just no way around it you would have to go ahead and blur it or restaurants for something like a blur it would have to be rest arised so but the good news is you know, you can also duplicate if you're worried about it, just duplicate your type player before you do that effect and then you can just hide the type player and that way if you need tio make any changes um you don't have to start over from scratch completely, so um okay, so with this example here you have four fonts on that and it actually works pretty well if you use instagram the way I cruise instagram is some of these things look like hostage letters they have so many what's the was the general rule for that's abusing great question I feel like e planted you hear toe the question I didn't know I didn't it's legit that's a great question. So what is the rule will generally speaking for like body copy and such you might have one typeface for a headline and maybe something for the body and like that, that would kind of be it you really don't want to mix and match your funds a lot however in this case what I was creating is more of like what I would call word art so in this case it's not like it's not like I'm typing a memo to the office and I'm like hey look at my twelve funds I'm going to include in this memo like that would be crazy but this is this is a piece of word art so it's okay to kind of play with that a little bit but generally speaking you would want to keep it more more limited and you want to choose your fonts very carefully right and there's all different like bonds can be classified in all different ways like we have sand sarah fonts, sarah fonts and sarah if there like the little feet on the letters so if you think of like times new roman or like a type a typewriter kind of want they have little feet right like the lower case and makes you know comes around to the ground and then has little feet that it stands on those are called tariffs and some bonds have serious other funds don't so the ones without little feet are called san serif funds and then you can also get slab sarah funds where they've got a heavy feet on and then we have of course you know, like calligraphy funds we have what you might call display fonts and those air typefaces that are meant for just like a word or a headline or like a poster just limited use you wouldn't put like paragraphs in that those air display fronts um and you learn when you you know, if the more you play with it and the more you read about it or, you know, check out some of those books that I mentioned, you learn how to combine funds in a way that works together, so they're not competing. And and all of that so, you know, you might see, like, sand saref type for, like, a headline, and then you might see serif type for body copy because it might help with readability there's all kinds of studies about what's front you use for what? It also depends, too, if the type is going to be appearing in print or on a screen that would change a lot of it as faras readability goes. So, um, you know, there's, lots of room for endless learning when it comes to that stuff, but that's a great question. So, yeah, I encourage you guys check out those books and learn as much as you can about it. I can't talk about foreign forever on, you know, I can't show you guys all the web sites and everything here, but they're really great. Andi, I find a lot of time just looking at them and appreciating their craftsmanship. Of all of that stuff and it's really great to now and see a six that you have that we have the ability to check out those those stylistic alternates and things so we could do and again that was what we were doing over here that's what allowed us to change like this o tio fancy? Oh um and sometimes they're way more fancy than this, you know, every fun is different, but this allows us to really play with the typography and have a lot of fun with it being a complete novice in the world of topography, what is the range that you might spend on fonts, our price life? I have seen well, they range from free teo I think the most I've paid for I have fought family and they can go as high as who knows what but like this bicycle ride, my bike pro the whole collection, I think was like one twenty nine, but each individual front, I think you could get each individual one starting much lower, like twenty something box or even less and a lot of times on those web sites, you know they'll let you they'll sell you one for like nine dollars, but it might just be like just vitality for just the bold or right so you wouldn't have like a a light version and a bold version, right so obviously you pay more if you're buying a whole set with all the different flavors but sometimes you know you realize I like to have a whole sets just because I like to be holistic sense but I also I just like knowing that I have them and I did you know but you can buy them all separately and you may find if you're really using a using them for a specific purpose you may find you really only need italic or you really only need bold for that particular project so maybe you can get away with spending less sure my friend has a set where you know it they've got a certain type of fund that's oblique and then oblique eitc and then light and union all these other things if they had purchase the full family would it then probably load the way the rest of you oh yeah so that's a good point too so sometimes they load differently so for example the one fund that I was using earlier insulin today so now would have changed it here this typeface has a separate fund for alternates so which is kind of unique like usually alternates would be embedded in with the regular funds so for example on the butterfly picture over here I changed this why so the whole this whole type? This word is an insolent today but the why is in insolent eight alternates but usually that that's kind of rare, but it works out really nicely and finish up usually what you would have to do is just select the letter you want and then opened a glitch panel or open a fund manager and find the version of the uae or whatever that you want. But here it's actually separated out in a different font altogether, which is different than this ride your bike front, which now we've changed back um in this case it's all built in tow one fun so that's why I can select the j and then I can choose the alternate here sure so that's a good observation some sometimes they're separated in different fonts, but I see that more rarely usually it's one fun and then all the different alternates are within that usually embedded yeah so sometimes they're grouped funny like that or you might see like I've also seen somewhere um like the ride my bike pro in this case all the different versions of it I talent bold except you are here under this menu, but sometimes you'll see some funds that will just say ride my bike bold ride my bike italics so sometimes they're separated out here and sometimes they're grouped together and you choose the specifics over here so it's just you know it keeps you on your toes you can never your board awesome, thanks and you have another present you briefly mentioned screen fonts with the increasing prevalence of retina screens, both on the ipad, on the macbook pro with written display. Anything we need to know is anything different about working with the whole context of retina displays that the really good question? Andi, yes, some of the things that can make a difference when it comes to print or screen display is the way the anti alias thing that you use on your type, which now that we're talking about it, we'll just dig right in. But up here in your options bar, you may have noticed this these two little a's here, and people I'm often asked, what is that? This is your anti alias ing and what that means is it's hard to really see a difference on the screen here in photo shot? But what it does is it's the way that photo shop sort of blurs the edges of the letters. Just I mean, you really can't see it here, but it's happening, and there are several options for that blur, so we have smooth, anti alias ing strong chris sharp or you can turn off I end the anti alien thing that you choose will depend on how the image or text is being used, so I was just reading the other day and everyone kind of has a little different take on it, and some people are like, whatever. I can't tell the difference, so it really depends on how like your level of personal scrutiny, but some typefaces at certain five is might benefit on a screen view of not having any anti alias ing. So I guess really the best thing I can tell you about anti alias ing, and this kind of stuff is experiment on dh. It really will depend too, on the size that the type is appearing. If it's really little, it may not need anti alias thing, but if it's large, it may need it, or it might look jaggi s so that's one thing, and another thing about that is that fonts. Now they have a different way of being used online, but it's different when you're betting in a graphic. So I guess I should. I should clarify that, too. If you're like a web developer and you're building fonts into the body of the website, then there's different ways that you work without those fonts now, and you get what are called like web kits when you purchase your funds, you can buy print versions, or you could buy web kit versions, soho that's a whole other class right there, but websites to, like front squirrel dot com. If you check out front squirrel, which has free commercially licensed funds, actually on dh, they have a whole web kit. For whatever type face you may choose, you can actually get the web kit for it, and they talk a little bit more about it. There s o. I would check that out, but, yeah, so that's, kind of a long winded answer.