Unique Products with Anna Joyce
Now we have some great questions coming in that we'd like to ask this guy man I feel feel feel up for some questions we think a lot of questions questions actually about pricing, but we'll start with christine who's saying, what is the best way to find someone to sow your designs for you? Well gosh, that's a hard one I think you need to find someone that you trust I happen to live in portland, oregon, where there's a really large maker community on I was able to put an ad out on a facebook page that is solely dedicated for like people in fashion and industry here in portland like become creative so in industry and met with someone whose work I really like entrusted and was able to kind of create a deal and we work together now I think you know you could try I always think word of mouth or finding someone who's working really admire and asking whether or not they know anyone who's so's you might not like the ask someone who is in direct competition with use of your making handbags don't...
reach out to someone who also makes handbags and asked them who helps them so because they probably don't want to give you that information that's a bit of a trade secret, but you know if you know it's green printer or a jeweler or someone who's vision seems too along with yours, and you can always ask them if they know anyone who does contract selling or industrial so in for a living. Um, and they might just say yes, and then you can make that connection, meet for coffee, and then always always look at their work, the sample for them to put out, you know, make sure that your terms were really clear before you begin working with anybody's, you don't end up with a batch of products that you can't sell, would you suggest having when you work with somebody like that, when you're selling out for higher is a non compete, a non compete agreement, something that you need to think about that actually is probably a good thing to think about, especially because they're having your designs, you know, you're giving them your patterns, your train secrets or your fabric that we've cut your things, having a non compete clause, a probably a great thing counts from the sign, now you're making me think I should probably do that. I, uh, the woman that I worked with, and I'm really good friends and she's, just, you know, someone might trust, so I kind of tend to be someone to take people at their word, but I actually think that that's, fantastic advice during probably something that somebody would do when they started off. Yeah, yeah, I think that it's really important, teo teo, keep things like that in mind when you're sharing your processes and your techniques with other people that one thing you can absolutely do for yourself is to have ah, noncompete disclosure so that somebody can't learn your particular tricks and embellishments, or what makes your product really stand out from the rest. A special flap that you might invent or closure that might be really unique to what you're doing so that they can turn around and replicate that and become your competition. Absolutely, though it's important to protect your work and all the ways that you can, particularly when you start branching out absolutely that's that's that, yeah, that's a great that debris out onto that absolutely you're watching it just starting out, and they're worried specifically about how to deliver products and feeling they already feel they can't necessarily deliver it all their own. Do you have any advice on maybe how you you price and how you know how to pay higher to help or someone you actually bring in to help? So etcetera do you haven't? Is there a formula you can use for that there's a pretty simple formula that you can use so you know, I what I do when I'm pricing my items and this is kind of there's a super simple formula and then there's the way that you can get a little bit more complicated with this all be very general att first with a simple formula which is you take the the cost of your materials and that is everything from the needles that you use tio a thread and it feels a little bit overwhelming the first time that you do it but it's really an important thing to do and you need tio bia's accurate as you possibly can to how much you know fabric thread any zippers notions snaps labels every single thing if you use ah stitching teeth take anything down if you have a special machine that takes boil that you have to order from someplace in every single thing that you use in the item and break it down by how largely item is that it's a six by nine inch zipper pouch for instance calculate how much thread that is how much albert is to get the six point nine and germany labels you use from the zippers all those things and then you have that price of let's just say that that price is a base price of you pay without any help from anyone is five dollars so your very minimum wholesale cost in my opinion it would be another mark of of one hundred percent would be ten dollars so you are making back your coxed of materials plus one hundred percent to pay yourself on dh, then that would usually make a retailer double that again, which makes your product twenty dollars, some sense, so and then also that but that doesn't mean any hourly wage for whether or not you're paying yourself, which is something that when I first started out, I didn't add into any of my products, so identically realized that I was working for free on bond, that, you know, all of the material for being paid for, and there was money to buy more materials at the end after I'd sold things, but there wasn't anything to keep for myself that was extra so that's something that I'm adding in there's also, when you start to get a little bit more advanced with your prices, look at your competition and seen what they're charging, so if you're charging twenty dollars for the bag but someone with a smaller aesthetic, similar hardware, similar fabric, you know, kind of a a similar overall mydd professional photography, like we talked about and kind of good branding is charging fifty dollars, then you may want to consider up in your price as well. That kind of also reached that same level as the competition, so that's that's kind of how I go ahead and price, I make sure I'm getting my baseline look and seem that's going to be once a retailer marks it up and then also looking secret where I am in the competition in each for the un in the ballpark of where my contemporaries are it's great advice, thank you. Now one of you is asking very specific she's actually slovenia, where it must be very late at night in a studio knocker on dh he's asking, and how long did it take you to get where you are in the hand made business? I have, well, it's actually funny. Carrie and I talked about this on the podcast I I have actually been in business for five years where I've been aggressively working full time on my business or that I was two thousand when I was in minnesota machine as a wedding gift, so I have been kind of working off and on since about two thousand one, but five years in earnest, working full time on my business and when you were starting out, did you include a number of many items in your collection or really limited's any girl is is asking that a lot of people voting on that one, how should you limit the what you're offering when you're first starting out? I think you should really limit what you're offering into what you can produce and weaken reasonably teo the more products that you have the more problems you run into his first inventory goes, I think that having a small collection of really, really nicely designed and well done pieces is much better than having a huge collection though I mean if you're just just just starting out I mean, I think coming as few as three and as many as eight or nine pieces is probably enough you can always do something where you have the same product, but you offer in several different color ways or, you know, different fabrics so using that same example for the zipper pouch, maybe you have the same superpower if you offer it in three different color ways and that's one piece of your collection and have a second product and you offer it in a few more color ways and then pretty soon you've got a full looking shocked, but you don't have so many items that you have a difference for every other thing or I find that the more products I add to my product line, the more kind of headaches tend to come up. You know, the more often times that stormy put in an order and you're just out of something or need to rush to order uh notions that they come in on time, so I would say starting out small and clean and well photographed and extremely thought out is better and then you can always see what is really popular and what's selling well, and you can keep that kind of your core, um, collection and try other things around it. So when I realized that my totes were selling really well, it was like, well, maybe talks with zipper and mother on the bottom would also saw wells, like tested the waters on that. Yes, this piece ok, so now those were part of the permanent collection, and so every season I will usually had a few items and then also retire after items that maybe weren't the sellers I thought they were going to be now following on from that very similar question from thin black capped. So I think I'm right in saying is watching us from australia. I'm saying, is there a good way to figure out how many orders you can take on a once or is it really just a question of trial and error when you get started? I think it's probably a question of trial and error, I think it's important when you're spinning of your studio to make sure that you stepped here's video for success. So when I was sitting at the studio was important to me that I had materials that really were the highest quality that I could afford, everything was clean and organized. Side shipping supplies on him because what slows down when you first get started in my experience are little things where it's like no, this order came in but I don't have any packing tape and this came in but on out the threats you kind of are ending up running around doing all this busy where if you just have everything in place you can always still things a little bit more shortly and it was all about efficiency of using your time you know, not working harder but working smarter which I know is kind of a cliche but it's really true so to figure out how many orders you can still I guess you know if you think you can fill three then have three for sale and somebody orders all three about any sold out and you finish them in the night will add three more or maybe ten more and you can kind of push yourself you know and I also think that you could you could push yourself a little bit more than you think that you can but I would never want somebody who's just starting out to get themselves in this situation where they have to back trouble and items were taking too long to get out it's our it's what it's much better to take on a smaller number of orders and deliver them looking really, really good really crest on time, but a hand written note than it is take on too many orders can just be sending out apologies that's kind of a disaster, marshall. Or is that exactly what he's saying? Because she's saying, obviously, sowing is such a time consuming, but she also feels undervalued skill we often hit a ceiling is false, what we can make, and therefore she's wondering if there's anything that you would suggest as an adjunct business, she thought maybe east selling or selling e patton's might be something that then also builds her name in the same design area. Absolutely, I think that selling e parents or I heard kerry mentioning kiss, I think is a really great way to kind of do that patterns. They're really great because it's something itself for a low cost, that kind of passive income, you spending the time developing the pattern making pdf that someone can download and install hundreds of tents? So that seems like a nice latest supplement income for a hand business for selling as well. Now when you were getting started and did you have to buy your fabrics retail on if you are buying them wholesale now, how did you get to that point? I did start out buying right? Fabrics were still yes and it was it was ridiculous that didn't make any sense on and then I it started out going fabric will still and I have the borders that its sense actually by a bolt of something when I very first started out, it probably was actually more because I was only buying healthy art at the time first things because I was doing a lot of applications, so it was little pieces of lots of different fabrics, so I would buy core yards of fifteen different fabrics and then have them for several months. Now that I have larger orders, I do buy my brooks falls ill get that makes sense when you are using all of the fabric because if you're saving fifty percent capable of fabric spinning around haven't really done yourself much of a favor. Luckily here importantly, would you have a wholesale fabric market on been able to go in there? They have a minimum order every time you win a one hundred fifty dollars you do need to have to have the volume to make it worth it to go in and be buying that much threads and you're not just spending money to save money if that makes sense. So there are certain things that I do still by retail sometimes especially the hall it is when an out of just a couple of spools of thread I'll just go teo so in retailer and purchase them, but I think it's about volume when you start buying wholesale now taryn karen is asking and I have you ever created your own fabrics or do you tend to work with existing products? No, I create my own fabrics though my entire collection now with the, uh with the exception of some hooded sweatshirt for that I'm doing right now for the holidays with your application and then the linings for my bass are all fabric, but I have designed myself and I were produced locally and they're either screen printed as a street in printer that I work with you're in portland or my recent collection that I just did dude in august called energize handprints all of that fabric is actually printed by hand on my studio people so I'm either hand stamping or can petey every panel of fabric wonderful? Yeah it's really fun and that talking about pricing just quickly going back to that question when I decided to go into teo um having a product line was entirely hand painted mark of the artist's hand there's never going to be another one that looks exactly like it that was timed up my prices you know, that's a that's a commodity that you're not going to be able to find literally no one else will ever have the they have the same bag, but it won't look exactly the same and that was one of those moments where you know, this may not cost me aa lot maurine materials, but creatively and professionally made more sense to kind of up that price point a little bit because of the artistic kind of integrity and value that the customer is getting. Those are all such good points, I think that that is one way that you were able to scale your business was by adding in the hand painted the hand stamped element of making your fabric. So you know, it wasn't that you needed to think of a new product to sell our way, tio improve any designs that you had already carefully worked out and tested and you knew are popular, but you were able to scale and up your prices and expand your business by adding and a really unique personal element to what you already needed, which was fabric exactly, and it was also really nice because I was sometimes having problems with with fulfilling the demand from a screen printed products I wasn't, you know, the turnaround time for having my my fabric printed would sometimes not meet up with deadlines for when clients needed things. So it solved that problem. And if I need a splatter print toad that I can handle that bag that night and get it to the woman who helps me, so the next day was I'm not waiting for somebody else to do. Their portion of the job on but also insurers that my product is completely unique in the marketplace to me where you know there may be other people doing campaign it products but I know that and the only one paint campaigning those lines you know there's not going be else using that fabric it's completely unique when you do hire out one more question about pricing that I have when I worked in a home goods accessory business we would often said that work to be done we paid by the piece teo like pay piecework so it's not that you need to find somebody that can work usually I think this is kind of standard in the sewing community to as faras work for hire that somebody might not be looking to make thirty dollars an hour to so for you but rather they might be looking for three dollars apiece or something absolutely yeah that's how I do it with my with my bags and anything that I have someone else so and also with my printing those air also repeats so I'm having a piece of canvass printed it it contributes more net energy tell something like that and then the bags are also known for peace and I buy all the materials and have them cuts and then sent her can I pay a certain price her and then the help that I have in my studio so I have my cake come in for eight hours, you know? I paid her by the hour on that encourages her to you know, do the job can be done, you know, be more productive and then I've been paying her for her time yeah, those were really good strategies and important to think about when you are setting your prices because if you need to get get health to make your work happen like there's no, no problem with that I think that it's really important to recognize and if you really want your business to grow and you want to scale it and you want to turn it into something else like one person alone can't do one hundred percent of that so it's not possible it's not possible that really grow and expand a business and to make to make it your entire lively in order to support your family all by yourself, you know? Absolutely and I heard a quote a while back that was that you want to be working for your business, not in your business and that you know it's like if you're sending all the hours toiling away, I think everything so everything's if you don't have the time to be or brand advocate to do special media to reach out to stores do press enquiries tio you know we're sewing all of that ex myself I wouldn't be here talking to you on creative live because I would be in my studio you know breaking my back doing that and it's nice to be able to have the opportunity to take take on new things to try different um you know, avenues of income possibly consulting or chatting with people or I don't know even just networking and just having time you cannot constantly be just toiling away it's not good for your body it's not good for your mind and also there's certain things that you can outsource it makes more productive and I usually try to give people jobs that I could do myself you know but don't have the time to like say cutting my showing business there's just tons and tons of cutting cutting on napkins cutting down candace cutting leather anybody who says no there especially when you're doing production is just tons and tons of cutting work so that's something that someone else to help you with but no one else can help you at the development of your product that created the hand painting the hands stepping for myself especially you know I like to do that myself that's something you sneak if I tell my customers that I hand painted it I hand painted it I don't have anybody helping me do that but some something someone else can do putting in a zipper that's not necessarily what makes our product unique essential and nuts when I hire out so in matching your work like that like you're cutting is one way that you can improve your bottom line to absolutely designing of a peace that you're going to make and sell repeatedly is another way to do that definitely needed to roll those costs into that wholesale uh when you're doing it right your math for how mature I am actually costs make sure that you are adding in any health that you're getting whether it's hourly or or piecework that his mom yeah good advice viewer who clearly is a very good so and she's got her ideas etcetera but she's no good at doing patterns so saying is it ok to by patterns and use them or are you going to lose that distinctiveness of your own business as far as buying a pattern from insulin store yeah I say yes so readily but I assume that's what they're asking ok, I would have teo you probably have a chef with laws or there should be some sort of, uh escalating written on the pattern but generally I would say that it's somebody like saying butler has made a pattern for a bag you can't reproduce that bag and sell it it's gotta be for personal use you'd have to work with a pattern designer and up and help you come up with your own pattern and frankly that's what you're gonna want to dio because if you make a product that's really beautiful and unique and it's a? Sure, and you're really fantastic. It's going, you want to have your own product? That's beautiful, that blues office, something takes a photograph of it. If it gets featured on a blogger or in a magazine, you don't have somebody ask, you worry about your design from and say, you know, mccall's patterns, that would be that it's, not ethical. I don't think that that's designing as much as just sewing, if that makes sense, and being technically good at sewing and being a designer and calling something your own design is is different. Yeah, very follow on questions of that is saying, I've been saying for years, but I look at other businesses, and there just seems to be so many. So how do you set yourself apart? I mean, it is the uniqueness you're talking about them having a product, no one else can, no one else is selling. I think that, well, I think having a unique product that there's a clear need for or leased a desire for mean, maybe people don't need a tote bag, another tote bag, but its desire for something that's fresh and you need, and then also you cannot under estimate the power of branding and photography, so if you're looking on the internet and you just google tote bag, you're going to come up with a million different things, but we're thought one tote bag that's so special and so unique in before and offers all these different, you know, elements and mother and pattern, and is going to make you feel chic and beautiful and those products that kind of rise to the tops of that breeder, you're brandon, you photography is having a very clear, identifiable visions looking somebody looks at that photo they owe cash is that, you know, so is those pieces? Is it something that sets you apart from the marketplace to just having a really good product? That's well documented, and also, once you have all of those things, you have to tell people about it. You need to spend the time to let people know that you're there, and I have this all confidence. Let everybody know that you are special and unique. Tell people why your special tell people why your unique tell people about your product? Put it out there. Put your photos on instagram. I have a facebook page tweet, you know, do all of those things kind of deployed to play, you're under product out into the marketplace. Well, that need he brings us so I think what needs to be our last question from the audience, but it is how do you find time to do the advertising part of your business when you're a solo preneurs? How do you get your products out there so people can see them? I divide my time up, I have certain, you know, hours in the day or certain times in the week when I am reaching out to clients and it's, especially heavy when I have a new collection come out. So if I gave you a collection in the fallen in the spring, the week that I am debut in the collection and before I am contacting blog's and that's almost that's what I'm doing, you know, the entire my entire eight hour work day is, you know, which not advertisers reaching out to bloggers reaching out to stores gave her that I have a new line, she making sure that everything looks really tight and just, you know, kind of putting it out there instagramming just making sure that all my photos air up, that my websites updated and then that's a big push, you know? And then you have something say holiday is right now that we're in now that's a very studio heavy times, so I'm kind of relying on photos that I took in august for fall to kind of carry me through until the next election right now because I'm to be a nice video filling those orders shipping items on dh doing that's why you know they're straight times of the in the cycle of a product or a lot where you're going to be working really heavily on one thing and have land on another you know the production part versus the promotion part but I do definitely try every day to do one thing to promote myself might be when I first launched the handbrake collection I reached out to five boutiques a day every day for about two weeks and I did a lot of research to try to find places that looked like it would be a right fit or was an aspirational boutique for me someplace I really wanted to be on dso I would spend you know, an hour in the morning with my coffee kind of reaching out and setting my line sheets then now you know during the holidays and making sure that I have, you know, product notices on instagrammers making sure that I'm still in in the fright in whisk with everybody doing that. So I guess I just spent a little bit of time every day making sure that I'm putting myself out there and then the rest of the plan is kind of spent you've been finding balance of what works for you fantastic advice that's a great answer ana, thank you so much you so I think our time with you come to an end, but I really appreciate you being here and before you go would you just give us your contact details one more time? That's absolutely you can find me on a choice design dot com my instagram handle is energized at energize design in for twitter I'm very active on instagram and then you can also find me on etsy at an injury stop dot com perfect! Thank you so much, jerry. You're welcome it's so nice to see you. Okay, that doesn't greatly about their studio and locals saying I want to make my own fabric one day too in this course and anna's advice makes me feel so hopeful that I can do that yeah it's really good she it's really interesting to watch how she was able to scale raise her prices, bring in more money by not really changing all that much like if you see the clutch that's in this particular photo you know, adding, adding this one really personal detail just elevated her business and that's something that I really like about anna's business and one of the reasons why I wanted to hold it up as an example for all of you is because she was able tio take something as basic or is normal earth is ordinary is like a clutch of purser whatever it is and really turn it into something that's just so fantastic by just making these tweaks that really make it hers so it's not that you know the world has never seen a zippered clutch before but the world really hasn't seen one like that and that's something that makes anna's product really unique also she's a great example of her business is a great example of how you only need a few items to really do a great job and to build a healthy business that runs really well so if she's going to make napkins placements table runner tea towels like that's four things and she can focus on that she we talk a lot in the podcast together about how she chose her colors and how she doesn't really stray out of those colors when she's making a particular collection because she needs those parameters to decide what she's going to d'oh you know that it's interesting how she puts together a line how she puts together a collection she puts these boundaries on the work she's going to do and then finds all of this room to move around within those parameters and I just think that it's fascinating because it really shows that you know you can't just have an idea and make it and anna's personal story about how she started this sewing and how she decided to develop this business is really it's really emotional and really special and ordinary in so many ways it's a story of a place that a lot of us are a lot of us find ourselves in and how she decided to change the direction that her life was going in and she got that sewing machine and so we share we talk about a lot of that in the podcast in another little tiny answered o r a my answer don't because she's not you know, poison a little story about anna is that I have one of her application sweatshirts and I've had it for about five years and I never made the connection that anna made it and that she was the person coming over and I happened to have it hanging on our coat hook when she came in and during our podcast she started talking about it and I thought what is that the sweatshirt or talking about one that I have hanging up right over there that she had made something that I owned and I hadn't made the connection and on all of that time so I thought that that was pretty interesting that I was a fan of hers for longer then even I knew hum so one thing that we really didn't get to talk about with anna that I was hoping that we were going to have time for was her photography because as you can see it's it's really an integral it's really an important part of how she expresses her products tio to her customer and how she is we actually have this really great conversation about our business tipped when she decided to pay for photography, it changed everything. She tells a great story in the podcast and I'll give a little bit of it away about how at one point she she had a very a limited amount of money in the bank and she decided to throw it all at photography. She hired a stylist, she hired a photographer, and then she had to buy all of the props and everything that she needed. Tio really should to rent a studio space. I mean, it was a few thousand dollars investment. I forget the exact amount, but I think she does mention in the podcast, but she threw this huge photo shoot for her business and took almost everything she had when she was done with that photo shoot she's had a few hundred dollars left in the bank and then within, like, two weeks time period of releasing those photos and having them out in the world, she had been picked up by real simple she had more than recouped her money. It was a crazy what that one investment of expressing her brand through her photographs actually did for her business, and I really want tio as I've done with every single one of these fast cars fast start, of course, is really, really emphasized how important photography is to the overall success of europe. Is snus that's like what ana was saying? When a customer can't pick up your bag and feels that sturdy, is it going? Tio is going to slouch when I put it on? Is it tough? Is it? Is it waterproof is strong? Is it going to hold my laptop like whatever it is that a person needs to know before they make a purchasing decision? You know you can express so much of that with photography aa lot of the handsome products that I have now, I choose because they say something about my friends personality if it's a gift or about the kind of home or lifestyle that I want to have or create for myself, you know, I'm not buying things with say, uh, sports equipment on them because it just doesn't like, you know, speaks to who I am or whatever there's all those little tiny details that go into making your work special and important, that makes somebody want to buy it, that makes somebody want to bite in that really starts with photography, you can express so many more messages and share so much more information than you even realize with the quality of photography that you have for your shop so and that also ties back into instagram how we were saying a few minutes ago that one of the ways that anna and lots of other people use in it's a gram and social media is to test out product ideas and that's also with a photograph, you would take a snapshot on whatever's happening on your on your cutting table people what they think you know, if your comm considering investing in a large amount of fabric, you could sort of send out a photo of it on instagram and ask your community for feedback right there on the spot and, you know, you could have your answer before you leave the fabric store. So there's a lot of interesting ways that photography is really important to the overall success of your business, so I want to say a couple more things about trends. I know that we talked about them earlier, but it's not just about fabric and colors but also about shapes, details how people are wearing things. So even if you don't pay attention to the trends like colors or styles that's, fine, but really paying attention to how people want to do use what you have to sell if you notice that there is a trend in people using pencil pouches as wallets or whatever it may be or, you know, any sort of detail like that that has to do with the trend and how people are actually utilizing sewn accessories that they buy that's the kind of trend that you also want to pay attention to, you know, what's hot in another area of your genre. And can you draw a connection between the two that again, could be color, but not just limited to that. But are people like really wanting structured things there? People really wanting flowy things? You know what? What are people looking for to buy? And can you can you get your aesthetic or your values into those kinds of details that people are interested in to increase your sales? So we are starting to wrap up this course, and one of the last things that I want to say to you is, where do you really want your business to take you? Where do you want this business toe end up for you where where you want to end up says so much about how you get there, it can really help you make decisions that can help you make buying choices that can help you set your prices where you want to go is really going to determine how you get there, so in order to do that, you really need to know what your definition of success is. And I would like all of you to think about that, how are you going to know if you're successful if you don't know what success looks like to you, if you don't know what success feels like to you, if you don't know what success means you, then you're not ever going to know if you're successful and maybe you're going to sit around and why under, you know, is this working? I don't know if I'm good at this, but you know, you could solve all of those problems if you just determine what that means to you. So any time you're wondering if if you should keep going or if this is worth, it just takes some time to really think about what matters the most to you? What feels good to you and what what makes you happy at the end of the day and make sure you're working towards those things? No, where you want to end up, because that's going to show you how to get there. So, are there any last questions from the chat room? We got so many takeaways from the course, so shafir sisters who says her number one takeaway was be brave and do it that's, right? Bieber even knew it for babies, this is is to sell kits on a whole bunch of other things. Beth sofia says their number one takeaway was to step out of her own way on bird watcher says after watching this I have more confidence and I really enjoyed this class christina says my number one takeaway is the need for professional photography I've been doing it myself I'm at a point where I need to hire somebody yes andi she says she also the number to take away is to get an instagram account even though she hates social media e I know that you think I just you know what I love instagram you know there's a lot of things that I don't enjoy about twitter facebook but let me scroll through some photos and I'm like pretty pretty happy so it feels a lot better to me on although we've been hearing a lot from ladies in the chat rooms on I suppose maybe maybe think people think sewing is maybe a female past time in business but andy's joining us and andy says he's getting his business going the number one for me is to have more value so what I do and to realize there is room for me out there that's true with teachers thank you for your feedback yes thank you so much and good luck to all of you I am excited to see what you created for the person you says that they want to up their photography another thing that you can do sometimes is khun sydor bartering if you happen to know a photographer out there who needs to practice taking their shots or if there's somebody like that that you can work with keep that in mind because that's one way that you can get around that so I'd like to end this course by saying thank you, I'm so grateful, tio creative live! I'm so grateful to anna I'm grateful to all of the crew year to the person who keeps making sure I have fresh hot coffee to deep my line producer justin, my producer elizabeth, who hired me to do this j k o my hose chris he's helping out in the chat room everybody is it's so amazing here that sometimes when I wonder if what I do is worth it, you know, I think back to experiences that I get to have with companies like creative live and just feel better about everything. So I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to to join us in the chat rooms and to communicate with me through social media, which some of you don't enjoy. It really means the world to me and as somebody who works alone and by themselves when readers or viewers or listeners connect with me, it really means the world to me and I appreciate it I also really want to think lauren rendell for contributing the financial tips to our fast our action guide and also to a little farm media for helping us with our social media tips. I'm really think awful for the input that they put into this to help you start a business that you feel really good about. And lastly, thanks to anna for being with us for the google hangout, the podcast in for contributing her list, her list is in the guide as well, and it includes all of her favorite resources, tools, tricks and places where she does some of her shopping. So I really want to thank everybody for that. So, thanks so much for being here. It it's really nice. We're going to a lot of love in the chat rooms, bester appears saying thank you appreciate you carry everybody saying this has been an awesome course there really enjoyed it. So thank you very much, carrie. What carries already thanked everybody on the creative life team, of course, like to do the same? Wants a huge shout out to chris jennings are off their host today. He's done stellar work in the social media and on in the chat rooms. Thanks to everybody here in the studio and everybody in the booth, they always do an amazing job, of course, to carry fast, start your sewing business, that's a wrap