welcome. I'm Natalie. Frank. I am the co founder of the Rising Tide Society and head of community. Here it honey book. And I'm so excited and so honored to be sitting here today with three extraordinary women and moderating a panel. We're gonna be talking about all things entrepreneurship. So as we get started, I want to take a moment and allow each of these amazingly accomplished business owners to share a little bit more about themselves. So we'll start with you, Christina. Hi, everybody. I'm Christine Escalera. I am an attorney, and I am the only founder of the contract shop where we provided contract templates Teoh, Honey book and other entrepreneurs in different various creative disciplines. Hey there. My name is Ashley Carter. I'm a calligrapher and copywriter at Ashlan Nights, where I helped creative small business owners sell more with their words. Hello. My name is Dominic Broadway. I'm award winning financial planner, personal finance expert and the founder of Finances Demyst...
ified. And I'm so excited to be here today to talk about all things money. I love it. Well, let's start with something that I think all of our entrepreneurs listening need to know as they continue for it in their business. And that is a simple question. What do you wish you knew when you started your business? So let's actually start here with Dominique. And then if all three of you guys were willing to share a little bit, well, we'll go from there. Yes, so there's there's a lot I wish I had known. Honestly, I think one of the biggest things one of my biggest immediate failures in my business was not charging enough. And I had, You know, people say you follow your passion and the money will come. It's true, but you still have to have structure in place. You still have to make sure that you're charging enough to support the business yourself, the expenses and to be able to grow. And so I wish I had also started my company in a week, but that's another story, but I wish I had took more time to put the financials in place. Honestly, that's another reason I talked so much about that. But figuring out exactly how much to cost, what's a realistic time, they're going to take to, you know, started each client things that needed. That's something that I feel like I went wrong and just an immediate thing. I wish I had put more time energy into because I it's funny how you're talking about something that you now teach on. I think it would be. I remember hearing like Mitch down like Go go lower. And I just remember, like in that stage of starting your business, you know where you like Listen to all the podcasts on the way to your regular job And, you know, like, I think I could do this. And I just remember hearing all the time like Neech down each down. And I just thought I was like, There's no way like, Why would I say no toe work? Like I thought that was the dumbest thing and then is actually you. We were out to lunch and Atlanta one time, and I remember you just continue to kind of harp on me like Ashland. Like what if you just you seem to really like launch copyrighting like what? If you just focus on this and I will say the more that I need you down, like the thing that I wish I knew was like truly at least for what I have seen the ridges or in the niches. And like if you can drill, it's so scary to say no to things I know it is. But like by doing that, I was really able to kind of, like, set a name for myself and yeah, so that's why I wish I knew. It's definitely a combination of both. Yeah, like I had such a lack of focus. And it was so difficult because one you didn't know where that focus was gonna come from or what the right thing to focus on Waas. But what really changed things for me and where I started to turn my business around from just kind of like a Hey, I'm here till like I am Here was when I started to focus on one thing and it wasn't the right thing. I didn't get it right the first time. But just focusing on the one thing helped to give me the skills that I needed to apply to the next thing that I tried and the next thing. And then each of those things got progressively closer to the right thing. Although have you mentioned in one way or another failure. You touched on it a little bit, right, Either fear or fear leading you down this path where you're afraid of ultimately failing. So I'm curious, and this is open to anybody. But what role do you think failure plays in success as an entrepreneur? Does it have a role? Is it something to be afraid of or embraced? Mr. Share, I think for me, um, like my favorite quote and I don't know who came up with it. I kind of say I did now, because I think I did. It's don't fare failure, fear, regret. So I'm actually driven a lot more by waking up one day and regretting not taking that step. So I understand In the beginning I was scared of failure, but I was more scared of not trying, right? And so it's like, OK, I'm gonna wake up in 19 0 I wish I had started this thing. I wish I had traveled here. I wish I had. So that actually is what would drink what drove me. But failure now is, um, it's like a really good book from college. It's like the best lessons that I've learned becoming a woman becoming Osman were those things it's on now. Look back like, Oh, so this failure equaled these lessons. And that's where that's where failure has taken me now. So its failure has actually been like to call just a really good, inexpensive textbook. My failure was much more expensive. Why wasn't cheap either, But yeah, for sure. No, it's funny. Everybody is like, When was last time you were here in San Francisco and I was like, Well, I don't know four or 53 I don't know how many years ago for a yoga teacher training because that's what I was gonna do is going to take a 1 80 from Legal. And if I hadn't done that, it wouldn't have opened up the possibility to connect with people in RTs, which led to literally all of this. So it's really interesting because just failing and filling you filling, having every door slam of my face was eventually what led me to the community that I'm super proud and honored to be a part of and just has opened up all the doors for the right thing. And I think that's the difference is like where the doors were shutting in my face before. Everything feels effort. Not not like it's easy, but it's effortless. Things are happening and it's almost like they're meant to happen. Where's the yoga blogging train I was on? It was like Everybody said, No, you don't like across the board are talking about failure could be encouraging because I just remember, like hearing when I was starting a business hearing. Other entrepreneurs talk about failure and you kind of to get the minds that like it's gonna happen. It's just a matter of when. And it's gonna happen a lot more and just I have to tell myself like reframe the way it looks like It's either great that worked well, we can do it again or like it didn't work. It needs tweaking. It's not like it's just a mindset approach, like Just Dunn's better than perfect. Like you said, like you got it out there. You if you there's some quote like if you thought about it, um, then, like it was too perfect than you shipped it out too late, like go ahead and get it out and, like, play with it and just your balance bag. It'll be fine. But that mindset shift has helped a lot because you have failures monthly. That singer, that probably fantastic. I love all of his answers in so much that could be taken from all of them. I want us to dive in a little bit specifically for each of you, because it's not every day that you get three extraordinary women who have expertise is and very specific fields on one couch to talk about business. So let's start with you. Start with you, Dominique. I have a question here from P. J. Done. So these questions, I should say source from the community. There was a lot of interest in just getting some time with you guys. So how do I ever scale my prices and get people to pay them when there are so many people offering to do things cheaper? So that's really a question. So I think when it comes, I think when you think about pricing, there also confidence, right? And so I think it comes down to competently selling whatever you're selling, right? So I think what it comes down to is the value that you're providing, right? So, yes, there could be one person selling example. You go to McDonald's and we left college and get a burger or you go to shake shack, right? And there's going more expensive. You gonna shake shack your product the waiting line a little bit longer. But you're gonna pay more because you like the value you like, the ingredients better, and the overall experience is better, right? And so I think that when you're looking into scaling and you're looking into you're like, wow so much it was charging less what? I'm charging more. Remember the value that you're gonna add for your clients and that is that should be what you should be portraying when you're selling, but also selling with confidence, right? So I think we've all seen people say, Yeah, you can. So I'm selling this thing and I mean, if you want to pay five. Yeah, I'll take five. But you know, whatever you want to give me, it's fine. Right? Burst, I say. You know, Natalie, this is $20. It's going to do X Y and Z for you is gonna make your whole problem go away. You're gonna But you like what? You got to solve my issues give you something for $20 so I think that that's where people mess up sometime with pricing. So remember that you're just make sure you're able to say exactly what value you're providing, how you're gonna solve their problem and self confidence. I love that. I absolutely love that. We have a question from Kate for Christina as well, keeping it moving. Do we need to retain a lawyer to review my contracts, or will he be OK using a generic one that I've either purchased? Or, for example, honey Book has contracts embedded in the system. So should creative also are also have a alert. Take a look. It depends because for me and contracts are about the relationship between the two parties. Usually that's two people, but sometimes it can be a company on one side and a company on the other or an individual in a company. So for me, it's all about defining what the relationship is and the expectations and boundaries that are present within that relationship. So, for example, if you are a wedding photographer and you require certain things on the wedding day in order to create a great experience for your client. Those should be in the contract. You should talk about that not just in the contract, but in your consultation. Maybe you have a client magazine that accompanies the contract anywhere that you can help to define that boundary, and that expectation is going to lead to a better result for that client. When the client has a better result, then they are more likely to refer you. Your business grows. And so you know, as faras practically speaking, should you have an attorney review your agreement? I mean, that's a great idea if you can afford it. But the reality is that most people can't, and so that's why we collaborated. That's I'm an attorney. I wrote the agreement that is now in honey book included. Free as part of your membership. There's no extra up cell or anything, so I love that That's there as a resource in a tool for people to lean on, because if you're getting started and you don't have anything else to lean on, you don't have the funds. For an attorney who can cost 2 53 54 50 an hour, it's really essential for you to at least define that relationship and have a solid boundary or container or whatever. You wanna call it around it so that you guys can have a great just have a really great experience at the end of the day. So do you need an attorney to review your contracts? That's like the gold standard, But no, I don't believe that's what you have to have. I think you know your business better than anybody else. And so for you to look at your contract and incorporate the things that are important to you that you know is gonna be a big part of your client experience. Then that's what's more important for me. As somebody who regularly looks at and drafts contracts than you know, toe, have some attorney who is has no familiar any with your business who has no idea what you know. A floral designer even is so I think, yeah, it's the gold standard, but it's not necessarily going to be helpful if you're if you're excited about your business and you understand what you want, the result to be out of the relationship. Excellent. Ashlan, We've a question from Caroline. Caroline asks. Is it really that bad to try and where the branding or marketing hat. Just as I get started setting up my business, I'd love to outsource and hire somebody down the road. But up front, the cost seems so daunting As a brand new business owner. When is the right time to hire an expert? Okay, not only do I think, is it really not that bad, I think you need to do it. I think you have to wear the hats at first because I at least like we have people come to my team and I wanting Teoh out. It's like when they find out there's somebody who can like right there, website in their content for them to take it on my plate. I hate this, but the problem is, I don't want people to outsource their words if they're outsourcing the psychology of sales. In a lot of times, entrepreneurs inadvertently are outsourcing the psychology of their sales. They don't know how to explain. It kind of talked about in my talk, but why they do. You talked about it as well, and I think to your point about talking about finances like you can charge your worth like don't worry about being the best. Be the Onley like how can you position yourself in a way? And those are all things that you need to figure out before you pay somebody because you even if they figure it out for you, I don't think you're gonna understand it as well. This is I just think it's so important, like your first website, right, That, you know, like even investing in, like, logos and Web site. We used templates. They're great templates out there, used those to get started. And I also say that because there's But I think we all actually have pivoted in our businesses. And, like, I'm so glad that I didn't spend thousands and thousands of dollars in the beginning because, my goodness, it's like you change. Seen as an example, I guess you probably didn't spend. And I just think that yeah, yeah, on my first blawg because I had no idea that templates even existed. Yeah, I scrimped and saved to buy logo on a web site from a very, very famous designer at this point. But it was not worth it. Yeah, hit your stride. Get in your getting a saddle. Where you know your clientele. You know your target audience. You know your message. And then you can start investing, I think. But I'm stick with it for a while and then begin Indust. Can I have to? I think that's a great point. I think that's like a lot of people go wrong. Sometimes they're starting their business there like I need to like Empty are my for one carry and just throw it all the business. And like you said nine times I always been in the same line of work. I didn't switch finance to selling shoes or anything, but I always, you know, I have pivoted my services of change. I have a new website launching in two weeks and I'm super excited about which looks nothing like the original say. But also, I think, you know, when it comes to finances in branding, using your resource is. So when I started my company, I wanted to be completing of all because I wanted it to be me dominate growing, making finance fund. I couldn't do it like any other company that was out there. I had to do it my way. So I, one of the colors to match my favorite colors, which was turquoise. So my branding was turquoise and I wanted it. I wanted to have events that centred around talking about money and brunch and happy hour, because that's what me and my friends did. And so that would have been really hard for me to portray really to another company that wouldn't have really got it. And so I went, Teoh call friends like Who can do this? And I had a friend, helped me create it. And really, I ended a bartering, honestly, like he needed financial help. I needed to some branding and he knew me and he knew my personality and it helped. And so I had no start up costs there. So I think sometimes look at your resource. Is ASU's around? Who knows you. We can help put your personality into your brand before dropping too much money and then changing your mind six months later that you want to switch it to something else. I think trade is such a good thing when you find like when you're with some people, like in this state ever finding somebody in the rising tide community and you know We're kind of on the same page and the same stage of business, like baby businesses. But being able to trade with one another and help each other was really such a gift. Amazing answers I love it made some of those mistakes myself early on. So I'm not a corner here as you guys were talking. Well, these questions air so great, Dominique, I've got another one for you. So as a new business center focused on expanding and growing, this is from to marry Manahan. As any business center focused on expanding and growing. I have yet to pay myself should re investing in my business for growth come before paying myself. So the paying yourself question is, Oh, it's a hard one, right? And it can vary. Um, when I started my business, I didn't have the option to not pay myself. So sometimes when I hear people say, What do I pay myself? I'm like, How are you not paying yourself? Because I've always taken care of myself, and so I didn't know I had to depend on myself. So I was paying myself everything that I was making. I was pretty much paying myself and then that reinvesting when I could. If you're in a situation and you don't have to pay yourself, I would say way out the options. So if you are not paying yourself, you say Okay, I have this extra $2000 that I've made that you know, was complete profit. Can I take this $2000 in turning into more money? Example? Putting it into ads which will which will be scalable, or putting it into getting a vending booth at a wedding conference or something like that? If you feel like that's not something that you can do right now, you're like, Hey, I really need to pay this bill and pay yourself. Don't beat yourself but because we didn't start these businesses to not make money right, even nonprofits make money. So I would say kind of weigh out the pros and the cons. But if you're in a situation where, like I said, you don't have to pay yourself, look and see how you could make more money. But if you do have to pay yourself, pay yourself like you're making this money. It's OK, but don't put your business into a hole where you're paying yourself. You're not able to invest back in it if that that's a good answer. But I really like the book profit first. I think it's a great book. Um, which really helps entrepreneurs give you specific breakdowns of how you can start to pay yourself. But like I said, if you're on time, you're like myself like there was no, there was nobody else paying the bills, So I had to, um, and I didn't really have options so that hopefully that county answers our question. Excellent. As somebody who's worked with you actually breaking it down from, like, a very clear spot and not a panicked Oh my gosh, I need to pay this bill spot working and creating that I don't like. Can we call it a budget? Is that a bad word? But, you know, creating that ahead of time and saying This is what we're going to a lot to this this this and like, here's the overflow where we can kind of fill in the gaps as need be. That was super helpful. So I think you talked about that during your talk as well. Yeah, I think I think that's always talk about the budget. People hate the word budget and the budget. It's not like people don't know what your budget is up. Funny. Okay, Budget, that the sexiest thing in the world. But all it is is telling your money where you want it to go. And I think it best it be decreasing its OK this these ago here. This needs to go there. This needs to go here. And then you have this. We're just allocating. So it's like you tell your money where you want it to go. So you're not like, Oh, no, we're doing when you go, I like only my money is just going away. It's floating like it's really not like you're spending it. That's where he is. But, you know, we need to get better control of it so we can tell each dollar where to go. That's all you need to dio find age old coach and help her. Calls it a spending plan. Yeah, Yeah. Thanks for one. Better. Yeah, I don't know. I'm standing. Just tell your money where you want it to go. You control the money. Don't let the money control you, you know, And worst case just rebrand the word budget and we owe excellent, excellent answers. Christina, here we go. So I have a question here from Alison Jeffries from Maryland. Alison, I know you. Is there any legal recourse you can take if you discover that someone has copied your work if you don't have a copyright, so I want almost expand. This is what she I know. She's a designer product to maker. But let's talk about that. So what can you do if someone copies you? And is there a way to protect yourself? Yeah, absolutely. So the thing about copyrights is that they're fixed as soon as you create something. So as a photographer, as soon as you take that snap, even before you hand it off to the client, there's a copyright that's created in that image. Now, whether in your contract that belongs to the client immediately or you is a different story, but copier, it's a really interesting because you don't have Teoh register them. They're one of the really unique forms of intellectual property in the U. S. And Canada and related jurisdictions where most of our watchers probably are, and with the registration you are afforded a lot more flexibility when it comes to collecting money. So the clients that I've had, where we have registrations on usually it's photos that have been screen shotted and stolen. We get a lot of money when that happens, and someone has taken a screenshot of their photo and use it on a different website or something. So even the ones that haven't registered their copyrights, it's still possible to collect money on. It's just much harder because of the way the copyright laws are structured in the country. So if somebody has genuinely taking a screenshot or copy and pasted something from you and you know you own it, it's not a client's work. Then there's a lot of legal recourse and possibly money that's at stake, that could be coming into your pocket so I would encourage anybody that has been copied to contact an attorney. Copyright is a really interesting form of I p lot where it's very, very fact based, and an attorney won't necessarily be able to tell you yes, this is considered infringement or no, it's not unless it's like an exact copy, but they will be able to tell you whether they can take it and then possibly what the odds of of you getting any kind of, I guess, either getting the work taken down so that you can continue to sell on Etsy or your design or, you know, someone's Impersonating. Use a photographer, which happens a lot, you know, they can tell you what the result is going to be likely, and then they will also be able to tell you about how much money they could. We'll get collecting on your behalf and then paying you so even if you don't have a registration for your intellectual property, which for this audience we're talking mostly about copyrights, some trademarks, patents. I think that's a little off the table here. But even if you don't have a registration, there are still common law, right? So I would encourage them to reach out to an attorney if it has been an exact copy. And if it's not an exact copy, that's gonna be a lot harder for an attorney to deal with on your we have. But it's still possible. So maybe looking for attorneys that offer free consultations to help you through that situation and just seeing if they want to take it if they dio, there's probably a decent pay out, um, or, you know, help for you that's available. I have followed questions about that. So when do you know if it's time to actually register for, you know, a copyright or trademark of some sort? Like, what is that point at which you're ready to actually put pen to paper and file? Yeah. So for copyrights for photographers, I personally I really like it. When photographers registered the images that they owned that the client doesn't own again, or designers that they registered the designs or the photographs that are being pinned a lot or re shared or re graham, those were likely to be taken and misappropriated on large news sites, places where you, uh, really should be paid for your work. But they're just taking it off of Instagram, as if Instagram were a stock photo site. That's not cool with me. I don't think it's cool with the designer or the the photographer, And so, if that's the case where you're seeing a lot of viral potential for a piece of art, a design photograph, those are the ones that I try to encourage my clients and friends to register with the copyright office and the Copyright office, like registering a copyright is very easy and cheap, comparatively to any other kind of I p in the country. So I think it's It's like a no brainer for copyrights. If you have a viral piece of content as faras trademarks go, that's something I think people need to do as soon as they can afford it. And in my presentation, I talked about this. It's typically about $2000 to get a decent attorney toe, look at your stuff and then register it. So if you're paying less than that, it might go fine. But if you can encounter any kind of problems later, they're probably also not the attorney that's gonna be able to help you. They're more like what we would call it like a big box service for trademarks. But yeah, if it's an important piece of component of your brand and your business cannot survive without it, it's a good idea to have that looked at early so that you know that you're not creating all this branding material or logo or investing just lots of money, creating this brand that actually could be infringing somebody else's mark or problematic leader on where you just have to redo all that work and spent a lot more money to fix it. Maybe get a cease and desist letter in the process. So trademarks as early as possible. But, you know, not everybody can afford an attorney. So doing Google searches and quotes is really helpful trying that out with different freezes, like testing the waters with different versions of the name that you're trying on Facebook searches and then finally searching the USPTO database, the trademark Elektronik search system. So I've spent way too much time on that database with you should have seen some of the names we almost named the Rising Tide Society back in the day until we realised Well, there are about three different places where that could be infringement. So we have to pick a different name. Uh, so that no, I think that's incredible. Incredible advice. Ashland. All right, let's see. Ah, this is a good one because I actually want to know the answer to this eso Kate asks. What is the biggest mistake that you see entrepreneurs making with their brand voice they set, she specifies, Brand voice. I mean as a brand or a voice on social media. Uh, okay, I'm going to say, just like copying others, like, just take It's like and I can use Jenna culture for an example, because she's a dear friend and client, but I do feel like she's like, spawned it, like for our creative bubble. A lot of people look at that voice and start to emulate it. Um, and I understand that especially like when you're starting goodness, like you just copied the Malik and that is, like, kind of a creative habit. Jeff Coins talks about it in to start. What is it, real artist on them. So good. Such a good book I reiterated put on your book list, but he, you know, talks about like we learned our craft and our trades by copying master. So I don't I understand it, but I do think that we just have to be careful to like, um, add to the body of work out there and not put stuff out there that is like a little too closely with somebody else says so. A good, like, practical way to get around that. I told my students, Start a copy bank. I call it like a swipe file. Like start your own documentation in your business of talked about it a little bit in my talk, but words that sound like you phrases that you hear Maybe you're listening to a podcast or sermon or you just you're reading a book and you find, like a great quit or phrase like bucket that, like, keep on hand a batch of phrases phraseology that you can then use on, and I think that will help you kind of get out of the swoon. Worthy was like a word I feel like in the creative bubble in the wedding industry that ever I was using, you know, So I get kind of just like train your brain to use your own resource is. But, um, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I see. Dominique, I have a question from Gen. Larson. She asks, Should I start saving for retirement? At the same time, I've able to start making profit in my business as an entrepreneur who doesn't have a 41 K or anything like that set up from a day job starting from scratch. How do I set myself up for success and retirement? You touched a little bit about this on your in your talk. Love for you to dive in a little bit more. Yeah. So I I think if you can afford to start saving for a time, it of course, why not start? Um, every if the sooner you start saving the better. Obviously, it's proven mathematically if you start saving earlier, you actually, technically, we'll have to save less than if you start saving later. Um, it's a huge like a huge difference versus if you start, let's say, saving a 24 25 versus starting it. You know that you could start saving, you know, $300 a month at 25. But if you start at age 40 it's like 2000 month, like it's crazy. So the sooner you can start saving the better. But I always tell people Teoh, make sure before you start saving for retirement that you have a good emergency funding place because there's no point of saving for age 65. If you can't get through next month, right? There is no point. Um, it's always say, make sure you have your emergency fund in place. You don't have tons of debt and things that nature before you start putting money for for later on in life. And if you are ready to start to start saving for retirement, you could start somewhere simply doing like a Roth IRA, where anything that you put into the Roth, you could take out completely penalty free so that if you do have an emergency, you could take that out without having any penalties. But if you're a little bit further along, you could do something like a set by IRA, which allows you to contribute tons more. You can go any of your favorite banks or investment firms and start these things. And like I said, you don't have to start investing with hundreds of thousands or tens or even thousands of dollars. But something as simple is putting 100 bucks away. Your $50 a week or 20 bucks, just something and then increasing it over time is is really a good place to start. That advice is incredible. I'm again. I'm so glad you're here, sharing that all of you guys and the crew of Life and Honey Book are bringing this to the forefront because I wish someone had said that to me when I started my business, and I'm glad they did a couple years in. But I can only imagine if I had just even understood what is a step. What is a Roth IRA? Those words were foreign concepts, and so I'm just little moment of like fist pumping because this is has acknowledged and has acknowledge Christine eso. We have another question trademarks, but we kind of touched on that. So I'm gonna keep moving here. We have a question from a maker, she asks. I make custom products, and I'm asked all the time if I can incorporate elements that I'm pretty sure trademarked by other brands into my designs. How do I handle this ethically as a business owner, respecting trademarks when there are so many who are willing to infringe just to secure a sale? Yeah, so there's a couple ways to look at this one is that the end user owns the intellectual property, whatever it is that's created, and I don't agree with that. I love trademarks. I love being an I P holder and protecting those who have I p. So I don't necessarily agree that you should just do it and put it out there and say, Well, it's your problem now because I've assigned all of this you But at the same time it is. It's hard because I had a girl calming, actually from the RTs Atlanta chapter, and she was asking about a Chanel thing, a Chanel logo on cupcakes or something. And it was for 10 people in a party. And she's like, Can I do this? And, um, you know, I don't give out legal advice to this giant audience. It's impossible. But you know, generally speaking, if somebody is approaching you like that, which happens obviously a lot, I think the appropriate thing to do is have a conversation and gently inform them about what intellectual property is and why trademarks exist. And it could be something as simple as this is owned by X Y Z company. It's actually their property, just like they would own a building or a car or a backpack or a laptop. And so for us to use that on the design that you're requesting or cupcake or whatever it is that the your stationery. It's actually like stealing that and taking that laptop when they needed to use their business. So even though intellectual property isn't property that you hold in your hands, that's why it's called intellectual. It's still property of somebody else. And, you know, if you are really concerned and you still want to do that, there are licensing agencies and authorities where you can approach them, and it's getting easier and easier, especially with music. Music used to be impossible, and now it is so much easier to license certain songs for projects. But for stationery and design, it is possible toe license, certain trademarks if it's a client that's interested in doing that and so presenting them with information because they're probably just either misinformed or not informed about what intellectual property is presenting them with that information and then presenting them with the option of Well, we can try to do this, but it's gonna be X y Z more, probably a lot more. At this point, it will get easier. As the years go on, things are getting easier and easier to license, but just showing them what is possible for them or What isn't is probably the best way to approach that situation, and just that's a really good question, actually a Now I'm thinking like, you know, you're scrolling through instagram. You see all these like yummy cakes, like you said they could be Chanel or Doc make stuff ins are, you know, And I'm like, I never thought about that Like, That's totally like stealing. But I mean, I guess what a baker just be like because example. Like you said, if someone like Hey, I want 10 10 cupcakes with Doc Mix toughens on it, or Mac lip gloss or whatever, which I've seen on people's I d like, could they get in trouble for that? But if you're only making a dozen cupcakes, is it like it's OK for trademark infringement and copyright infringement are different for copyright infringement, its access and similarity? Substantial similarity. So there could be a copyright problem if it's a logo because certain parts or aspects of logos could be considered protection under copyright law, it could also be trademark infringement. So for trademark infringement, there's a lot of factors at play. But some of those factors include Is this likely to the biggest factor is will the consumer like, Well, the end person watching this on Instagram think that this is a cake made by Chanel? Or is this somebody that is going to understand the difference? So it depends on the level of sophistication of the end person who's using this were possibly consuming it with trademarks. It's difficult because people are so, uh, big companies are very knee jerk reaction like Easy. They're very interested in making sure that any kind of use of their trademarks is licensed and available. And even though that's not like trademark law didn't start off in a place where that was the standard. But now that it's just so much easier for the companies to protect themselves, they're much more likely to go after people that are using their logos and things like that on social media because it's so easy to confuse where that cake or where that stationary or something is coming from or, you know, for people to think that this big company has licensed their logo to this little stationery designer and the company doesn't want to be associated with stationary for whatever reason, so it's it's definitely shifted away from trademark law as protection for consumers. And it's shifting more into trademark laws protection for the big companies that own the intellectual property. Seems like people aren't like I said. I'm just thinking about cakes. Like what? Ever thought about that? But like, it seems like people aren't turning them down because, I mean, people are getting the steamed cakes all the time, but I guess they could technically get soon if you eat the cake. There's no evidence, I guess, right? Okay, when you talk about this because I was telling Christina this morning like legal stuff is the kind of things that I thought would come in time in business maturity. And I was like too much isn't my business is the first time that I was like, Oh, my gosh, why is this happening like this is the step into the big girls unlike here, So I just I think that legal information is so you're gonna need it sooner than you think. Like in your business. I remember the first legal letter ever got, and I probably had been around for a year and 1/2. It was a block and in turn, had used image. I guess it was a Getty image and on the site. And of course, that was just that was her job. You know about the black approach. I remember getting a letter in life so nervous on my gosh am I gonna do And I'm like, Well, you know, it's fine. I don't know that my intern, because I didn't do it. But I'm not gonna hurt Jenna. Me never flipping the letter over. And it's like, frequently asked questions. Yes, your intern may have done that was like, Oh, yeah, out of everything, it was hilarious. We worked it out. I don't have to pay anything, but you're right. It's And that's why you really do need for yes, because it's not just the big people. There is the little people they're going after, but I'm also not easily scared, So I didn t like people going. I gave him money. Now if I didn't, you know me and I was able to work it out. But you do have to You do have to protect yourself, you know, realize that you're in business and your you're subject to be answered. I think I think it speaks of the creative Fred in our community. And so when people are asked me questions like that, I get a little concerned because I really hope that people create their own works and create things that speak to them and aren't just a reflection of somebody else's brand and what they're building like you were talking about. Yeah, yeah, like, create. Yet I could go home Whether there have been It's amazing. So I so many good little tidbits. It's fantastic. Ashland Okay, so this is one again I love. I love these questions for you because every time I read it, I'm like, I need to know that she was helping. But this is a big one cause I hear this a lot. It's the question of what if my market is too saturated, There's no way I can stand out among all of the other incredible people doing exactly what I dio. I love it. What advice do you give to somebody that feels like there's just already enough of whatever they do out there? Yeah. How do they stand out? Okay. Poll of us who thinks they air in a saturated market with what they do, Just wondering you don't confirm today. I mean, I feel like everybody feels like they're market is saturated and, like, kind of like it's 2018. There's an Internet like every every market is saturated. So honestly, I think it's a good thing if your market is saturated, because it shows that there is a lot of customer interest and what it is that you do and where there are a lot of customers, there are a lot of people have different needs, like there's going to be more people that are shopping around price shopping compares and shopping like wanting to find the best thing. So honestly, it's a good thing if you look at, like, basic supply me and economics. So what, then are going to flip that around as the marketers of our businesses as the CEO is, it goes back to what Dominique I've talked about, like you've gotta figure out then what's different about you. That's why I tell all my students we spend so much time. I call it your loneliness factor, but it's your unique selling proposition, your unique value proposition. What do you do differently is your Maybe it's your story that you lace into what you do, and people love that about you. Maybe it's your process. May be it is. Were you source things from? But there's got to be something about you that's different in the saturation, so it's okay to go into it. I'll say it's also okay. Did not go into a saturated market. I remember when I first realized I wanted to be a copywriter for creative entrepreneurs. I would hop in a rising Tide Facebook group because I was like, What were people asking about copyrighting? I'd search copyrighting crickets like no one cared or even knew that words. Well, now you started. It was like a whole bunch of people that pop up, So I don't think it is a problem either to go into a non saturated market. If that's what listeners or viewers are thinking about, you are probably gonna have to educate a market on what the thing is that you dio So that's gonna take a little bit of time. But I think either way is fine. Don't pick one or the other for your business idea, just because saturation or non saturation both are a good thing and give me done really well. But I think also to that, comes back to the confidence like you can't be unconfident entrepreneur and even like, You know, I don't necessarily think I'm in a I don't think I'm in a saturated market at my level. I will say, I think there's some saturation happening of people trying to get into personal finance who are just starting out. But I think I took the time keyword time. I didn't wake up and say, Hey, I want to be this top person. It took years, and I have tons of people reach out to me all time. Like Dominic. I want to do what you do. How can I do? And I just told him You can't do what I do because I'm dominate. But I am me. You can't be me, But what makes you different, right? And so if you could figure out what makes you different, that you can get to the top it sure thing. But you're not gonna be me, because God made me the way I am. And so in that aspect, I don't think that there's necessary. There's, I think all markets are saturated. Wait, no one's out here recreating will mean to be honest, right? But you really have toe. You really have to. You really have to realize what makes you different. You really do. And I don't even like the word saturated because there's so many people that need whatever you're doing. But they need to get it from you. They need to get it from you. There's some people that want to work with me. There's some people that want to work with friends, friends of mine, in the personal finance facing, You know what we do? We collaborate and we put our brains there. We make things better. And so I think that don't think about the saturation. Sometimes think about collaborating to better than one. Me and my other finance friends will work together. We'll do. An event, will put constant together, and we make it better and we reach our respective audiences. There's some people who connect more with me and my story. There's some people who connect more with this person in their story. So you have toe. You gotta figure out what makes you unique in, like go for it like you can. I mean, that's just fear. It's fear like we're not doing that. It's not gonna work fearing partnership. Don't go together. They don't. I love the Houston story because the whole time you're talking about the kneeling story like this is why it's important to share your story because somebody's going to connect with yours on the copywriter. For some people, I'm not brothers in the calligrapher for some women, not the other. So, like whatever it ISS, share it because somebody out there will pick it up the breadcrumb. I'm hearing some common threads, the idea of confidence I'm hearing a lot about, like a mindset of abundance, this idea that you know there's not enough around and all of that for me. And you guys know this community over competition and that mantra and that idea it's it's successful, and it works when it's rooted in this mindset. This collaborative, you know, minds that where there is enough to go around and we can confidently step forward and say This is who I am. This is what I contribute to this ecosystem, this world, this economy as an entrepreneur, I love it, I love it and I hope I hope everyone is just soaking the same because I know I am for sure. All right, let's keep it rolling here. So, Dominique, I feel like it could be really overwhelming. There's a question here from Ah, Jennifer. I feel like it could be really overwhelming with all the different types of IRAs and insurance plans. So what I would love to hear It's just some simple advice. Straightforward strategies on retirement savings, like where should somebody start if they've never saved a dollar? OK, so if you've never saved a dollar for retirement that you save your emergency fund, talk about that. But if you have not saved a dollar at all for retirement, I think if you're eligible financially, meaning you're not so income limit is not higher than the required amount. Start with a Roth IRA. I think it is the greatest, the best place to start, and I say a Roth IRA because, like I mentioned earlier anything that you put into a Roth Ira, you can take out completely penalty free. So if you put $2000 today and God forbid, something goes wrong and you like the 40 tires and a roof on your house next week, and you need to take all of it out. There's no penalties whatsoever, but if you put $2000 into this account today and the stock market blows up it, all of a sudden, it grows to $3000. Now you have $1000 profit, right? So let's say if you say, Hey, I want to take this whole $3000 out and me and my boo are moving Australia, right? You only have to pay a 10% penalty on the earnings, so that's just the $1000. So I think that that is one of the most simplest, easiest retirement accounts is a great starter account. You're not locked in until age a half, which is pretty far for most of us. Um, so I think that's a great place. But what you want to do, like I say, Well, there's an income limit. You just want to confirm, check with the IRS or contact your investment broker and say, Hey, what's the new in? Because it changes every year? What's the new income limit? So there is an income limit and what they call your G. I your adjusted gross income. So you go to page two of your 10 40 and see which are adjusted. Gross income is if it is over that certain limit. You're not eligible bull to contribute, so I think for individual it changes every years. Around 130,000 g I. If you're g ay is less than that. Start with the Roth maxed out at 5500 year once you start making more money of your entre manure, possibly movil into a set IRA or maybe even a solo 41 K based on your specific needs. But that's why we're start for retirement, then really quickly on insurance. You can't build wealth without insurance because there's no point in taking the time to create these awesome businesses and put all this work in, and you're not protecting it, right? So we like that. I like to say the umbrella. You're protecting yourself from the storm, and so you want to protect everything that you've built, so you need to have insurance is on your business. If that's errors and omissions, which is something I have, um, on my business, which I had starting out as a stockbroker cause we're placing trade and something goes wrong. We got to cover ourselves, but also having insurance on your life. And this is another place that people do not take the time to put into. So insurance when your business insurance in your life but also insurance on your ability toe work, which is disability, right? So people don't think about that. Especially a lot of people that say, even like in the rise entire community, creative entrepreneurs, most 95% of them have to physically go and do that job. They have to physically go and do the video. They have to physically go and take the pictures. They have to physically do the calligraphy. Um, they have to physically make the flowers. And what if you wake up one morning and you can't your arms are working your legs, not working. You can't go do here. You can't go to go do makeup. You wanna have insurance in place that can cover you for that time. So you want to make sure that you're protecting everything that you're building by having these necessary insurance is always, say, bare minimum. Try to get disability insurance and also make sure you're getting some sort of life insurance, even if it's a 30 year term policy, which means that it lasts for 30 years of time. At 20 bucks a month for $100,000 Death Benefit gets something to protect what you're building. Amazing. I am going Teoh record all of that. It doesn't like it. Only whenever somebody says they're starting a business. I think that it all incredible. I wanna ask very, very specifically with Christina, Let's talk Elektronik contracts. So when I first started in my business, I had good old fashioned paper contracts. I'd fill it out, you know, with the information for the couple. Send it to them. Let's scan it back in those days they would fill it in, and then they will. They would they would fill it in, and then they would actually mail it back to me. Thank God for Honey book. The process has changed a little bit since then. Now we've got electronic contracts, but one question that we get a lot, we see it in the rising Tide group. We see it in different forums, our Elektronik contracts valid. Are they the same as a good old fashioned pen and paper contract. Well, if you're buying a house, I'd say no eso for large, very permanent type. Real estate deals, especially they need to be recorded, and they're not considered valid At this time. However, the legal system is moving almost exclusively online to the point where there have been several federal judges and instances where they've been pretty, uh, without using any bad words mad that people aren't filing electronically, even if you know it's an option or to do either or so with that being said, you know it's it's definitely moving more towards electronic. My eye started twitching when you said what you were doing, because you can't I can't stand as a client. And as a contract attorney, I just cannot stand paper contracts. My insurance companies, they all want me to take like photos or faxes. I don't even know where I would find a fax machine, and it's just it drives me crazy because it's a horrible experience for your client. It let's them know that you don't care about their time because they cannot just pull it up on their phone and conveniently read it wherever they have their phone or their computer, whatever they want to access your contract. So now they're less likely to read it, which is the most important part of a contract to me. And they are. They're not signing it on getting it back to you. They're going with somebody else who was easier to work with. And then finally, I think electronic documents airway more secure because you can track it back to the persons I p address. You can track it back to exactly the date and time and location that it was signed. So, you know, for me to see somebody signature that could be forged in, faxed in by anybody I'm I'm kind of dubious. And the legal system is now very dubious about physical copies of documents. Which sounds kind of funny, right? Like for those of you who are still out there filing your contracts away in a filing cabinet, you can stop and you can use. Yes, you can use a tool like honey book where it records exactly who signed it at what time? What date? And for me, it's much more secure. There's there's no possibility of somebody hacking the fax line or intercepting the male or, you know, whatever kind of crazy scenario that really isn't so crazy in today's world could happen because they're just locking into a secure portal and signing and reading it over and over again and accessing it any time they want, which is the best part because, like I said, it's really important you guys were laughing at me yesterday. I was actually reading contract, and, uh, you know it is. It's important to read contracts, and so if it makes it easier for your client to work with you and to read, that's more important to me than making sure that you have a physical copy in a filing cabinet somewhere that you forget about or, you know, God forbid, something happens to your house and you can't access it anymore. So anyway, yeah, I think electronics is definitely the way to go. I mean, unless there's some outstanding circumstance where you're buying a house or it's, you know, some kind of a will or trust, those still are not considered valid if there isn't like a notary present. But when I sold my house recently, we signed most things online, but I did have to go into the house to sign the final closing documents were probably to record it. Yeah, pull back because it was certain documents had to be. But most were actually the sales, everyone. Everything like online. I was like, Wow, this is so easy. Yeah, and that's a cave. The ease of it, I think the kind experience side we all know It's like you need it now for client experience. But I love hearing to just the security side, too. And the ease for that client to reference that contract. And I mean, I'm on board. I finally I mean, it lets it took me a while after I loved around the binder of contracts on enough. I was excited. Teoh got lighter, right? Like my later the minute I could put down the really heavy finder. Uh oh, gosh, Ashland. Okay, this is such a good question. When do when do I start an email list? This is a you know, sort of and do wanted to do. And I'm gonna add an extra little conversation here Tuesdays together. A couple months ago, someone was chatting and saying, Do I really need an email list? If I've got social media platforms like Instagram, and that's where most of my following is. I know. I see. Christina, cause this is how I thought I was like So we're gonna talk about it. When should somebody start an email list? And is their value in the world where most people just got time on social? You've got your eye twitch. I get my heart palpitations. This is one of my emoji hard lying I love talking about like, I got to do email marking before it was like, Cool. I feel like an agency day. So I love talking about in this class. Okay? The first thing is, it's so important not to build your business on borrowed land like you really need to build your business where you can own the assets. We don't own instagram. We don't own Facebook like it's just don't build your business their own as much as you can, even if you I think a lot of B two b creatives who, um, want Teoh have freebies out and that kind of thing understand a little bit more. And I think it's those people who will be to see people serving servicing brides, couples they don't quite see the correlation yet, but I just I would urge you to start thinking that way because there's going to be a time when the marketing flips again. It's gonna It's gonna always flip are gonna see this. So I'm go ahead and start before you're saying I have a few different thoughts on this. The first is like we're saying earlier. Dunn's better than perfect like start your email list. I remember it was like in those days where I was podcast listening and driving to my corporate job. All all of them were saying started email list. And so I started one so soon in my business, terribly like I asked, I had some random survey out and like the people that and then like, I got them an email for, like, six months like, But you know what I started. So start somewhere you're not gonna have. I obviously is a copywriter. I'm a big fan of welcome sequences leading into a long term nurture funnels leading into a launch pitch and trip wire. But like you don't have to have all that, you're not going to right away. Just start be able to commit to yourself that you're going to send out regular content. If all you can do is monthly at first, that is okay to stick with that. But get it's more of a like personal experience experiment. I think. Get yourself in a habit of like, This is what it feels like to create regular content on an email platform, because you are going to have to depend on that in time as you grow your business. A Sfar as tools and I'll include a link in the resource packet. But there's a lot of great email list building tools out there, um, hometown girl and mail chimp is great. I do actually recommend a tool called Convert Kit, though. Yeah, you use it to this right to build up Teoh. I think I think it can even work for a list of under 10,000. Your first you're gonna hit that 100 it's gonna feel so good, and then you get that 1000 like you can do this. It's going to take some time. But as you work, you know, past the 10,000 we can talk about other options, but use a tool that you feel comfortable with and just start like just start. That's the most important thing. I think I will follow up to that. So a lot of times when we talk about email list, you nailed it here when you said people think b two b So that would be, for example, all of us in this room educate other entrepreneur That's something we dio. But let's say your BTC. Let's say you are calligrapher servicing couples or a wedding photographers or servicing couples. What kind of content could you share via like an email list? What would what would be the benefit so good and that Yeah, like that. Actually, we've talked about this before. I think it s so jealous of you to see they have it so easy. They don't believe me yet, but say you like I love when you talk about this, explain why. I mean, you could you could literally send out weekly emails for a year and then copy and paste those into an automation. And when they sign up, it sends eso. Now every new person who is now a bride and they weren't six months ago. They're getting into your automation. You don't have to do anything and you're communicating with them for a year. I think Amy and Jordan do this. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's Yeah, I think there's a lot of great options out there. If you can't figure out what to say, ask them. Just use those survey questions that included, like go through and just start to figure out what can't What do they want to know? Are they do They have no idea what to wear to their engagement session? Do they have no idea how to do any to make a shot list? Can I trust my photographer like I didn't know that as a bride there's so much content You were in your zone of genius and you forget what you know. So just ask and like figuring out that content like Christina said, If you service a group, you know, if you service moms to be or brides who were in a stage of life for a little while, that's awesome, because you get to create content that can live on live on and live on. And even if you're not, if you create hand lettering products and you sell those, maybe I also I mentioned in my talk but get ideas from companies outside of the creative bubble. So get on email newsletters for brands that you like start to look at how they market and just get ideas from that. But, oh yeah, I agree with you. I think the BTC space There's some great opportunity there to just have fun and send people some happy's. Think another thing. That area I've been for the past years text messaging to So you don't just limits. Remember back in the day you want to get people's, uh, what they called mailing your address mailing address, right? Who? Just that. You know, where is that right? You get your mailing address and then and then it moved to email address. But I'm really focusing on capturing text messages. Well, because that's another great place. Open rates are so much higher than emails. Andan also to have been using a tool like many chat so that I can get into people's Facebook, the EMS. Now we're deeming people s, so you want to hit them as many places as possible. But if you can use a tool that will capture their email in addition to their phone number. That's that's great, because sometimes phone. I mean emails get caught up in spam sex messages come through and you see the text message open rates, and you could even send them a link to a block post. You send them a link to a email that you sent out, send them a link for a coupon code or or just Cinematheque say, Hey, you know, it's it's wedding Monday and you know, I don't know, whatever, just whatever you want to text. But people actually really enjoy that as well. So I would say, You know, like I said, this this is all borrowed borrowed territory And, you know, like when people start freaking out when Facebook changes something Oh, my gosh, like you shouldn't be doing that. If you already own accent. You already own the access to the ability to access your community. You're not gonna freak out. So you're like social media. They're saying what, like 6% of our audiences, even seeing our posts in Yeah, okay for people to CEO. Don't worry about like and you said, you know, many chatting bots says tools, e mails, as is because like you need to get in front of people so they see you and they remember what you dio and so you frequently. Yeah, and that's and they're not. They're not seen you as much as you think they are on your social media accounts. So be sure that you're looking at other avenues. Amazing. I have a question for all three of you guys. There's there's gonna be somebody watching this who is fighting the comparison battle right now. Yet I have a feeling there are a lot of people who are either starting a business or in a season of business where maybe they're pivoting and this is gonna be a resource. It's going to set them up for success. But we all know underneath all about the psychology of imposter syndrome and you add in the fuel of social media and watching what everyone else is doing. I just want to hear from the three of you, you know, how do you combat that? How? If you have you experienced comparison, how do you dio some advice and honestly, maybe even just some vulnerability on because people look up to all three of you? I know I do, and I'd love to hear This is something you've dealt with. I know. I abdel with it. I mean, if people I don't know if someone hasn't, I would be surprised. But, you know, they say comparison is the thief of joy, and it's true, um, imposter cision Israel. But that whole comparison thing I mean, what I realized is we're comparing ourselves someone else Highlight reel. And I remember, you know, I when I thought about that, I started sharing mawr about behind the scenes. It's like, Yes, I had a great day, but, you know, my stepfather passed away today and this happened this happening. It's like, Yes, it seemed great. But in between these great things happening on a lot of really, really crappy things that happened. And I remember one time I went to Dominican Republic like last year and I was posting the good things that happened. It was funny cause I got back from the trip and I said and kind of sucked. I mean, there was a lot of good things, but what I didn't post is that one day I woke up and I have hives all over my body. And then we went and had to switch hotels because I got sick of that hotel win inside Airbnb we wake up and apparently there was an explosion of bees that happened in the living room, and I didn't post any of that. Now, mind you, I still have hives. I take medicine. I can't wake up because the been Aviles too strong. Anyway, I booked a one way flight cause I do that sometime. I can't fly back. My mom's like, Why would you book a one way flight? And I'm itching are high. But from the outside, I had really like four really awesome pictures from the medical report for the Hives before the has and in the picture stop. But I was like, If I did this, imagine how everyone else's and it started reminding me I have to show the good the bad. And so I started showing more the bat like, yes, I woke up and I don't look great, and I don't have makeup on. This is this is how life is going to start packing it in that way. Um, and I just had that reminded me that I'm going through this. Other people are going through this? Um, no. I even really appreciate even you sharing. You know, your battle that you went through and I was like, Wow, Natalie was going through all this and building all this, and it just really shows like we have to stop comparing ourselves. It's those little things that I've done is a lot of times I won't get on social media. Probably the first couple hours of the day. I do not do that because what will happen is I mean, like, I would sometimes wake up this members are Wake up, roll over, check my phone. You know, check instagram check fix, but check email and I get stuck on Instagram. Like what? She got engaged. She had a baby. She had a $1,000,000. She made 20,000 hours yesterday and I was like, Oh, my goodness, I'm already behind. First of all, I woke up late and that rules is already winning. And I had to stop that. And so I tried not to look at social media till midday. So even if my post are going out automatically and people are liking and commenting, I'm not looking at it because it can really mess up my day. So I had to start doing that. Yeah, Love it. I have a lot of thoughts. Yeah, I have definitely felt imposture syndrome as faras. Like some practical ways that I've gotten through that over the years. I think one was starting to, like, hire coaches who can tell me about, OK, so back to okay, back up even further. So this morning, you don't hear the trumpeter outside of our was that yesterday there was a guy to, but yet Okay, so there's this man outside, like only in a state grant. Hey, is like practicing. But I just reminded me recently I was reading. You gotta practice in public, Like to get good at whatever it is like, Yeah, you gotta play loud like you're gonna have to. So I think like some of the imposter syndrome sometimes comes from, like, you're gonna have to put yourself out there to get found and like so what? You're doing the right thing. You're putting yourself out there. That's a good thing. But to bring it back to what I was saying with coaches that investing in my business and having other like people that I consider to be experts. Look at my stuff. And, like, where I'm kind of like Well, here it is like, what do you think gave me such confidence and was worth the money in the investment? So that's, like, one practical thing. Totally agree with you. And like, social media, I think it's the tech wise family. In that book, they talk about takeoff one hour a day, one day a week, one week a year from social media. I unfollowed a lot. I don't follow people. Usually you do what I do. They're doing beautiful work, but I can't see it because of my heart, you know? Yeah. So I think just, um, about protecting yourself and spending. Yet your inspiration is not gonna come from the internet anyway. So, like, don't don't look there home for it. Yeah, I feel like that Instagram and Facebook algorithm. It's scientifically calculated to find the people that are going t o. Yeah. No, I mean, this is something I like walking into this room. I'm comparing myself to Kent and you and I'm just Gosh, I'm so behind, but I think the other part is then I sit down here and I'm just so grateful for being here and having this opportunity, and that's that's what really pulls me out of those funks is I'm like, Oh, but I didn't do this. I mean that I did it and I'm like, Wait a second. I'm 30 and healthy. I have great friends like there's just the things that are really helpful that I'm grateful for, even if it's just like this. Cup of coffee is not cold or whatever it is, if you can cultivate that, which I always thought was super cheesy, and I never wanted to do it. But if you could just sit there and think about things that you're grateful for, even if it's the fact that it down three everyone, Yeah, that you're like breathing like that's enough. So it's not anything life changing. But if you if you could just put yourself in a different mindset, whether it's gratitude or prayer, like whatever it is that's going to shift, I mean, what's the neurology? The neuroscience behind this? There has to be something that aging the brain waves. It does gratitude actually impact levels of dopamine and serotonin in the same way that you know, some SS Arise Dio. Yeah, it's a really We talk about it like a fluffy concept, but it's ah, you know yourself support. Um, you know, the whole time we've been in San Francisco, we way we didn't put each other down. We're like, Oh, maybe don't wear this. Don't wear that. Yeah, we've only been uplifting and supporting each other and that, and that's what it's all about. Surround yourself by people that care about you and your passion and they see where you're headed. And I would say, like, kind of to that, Like paying for the conference is paying for the retreats like going to community events like those air a great way to get out of your funk in your head and, like, just realized the community around you and yeah, yeah, we need it. Well, I am grateful that I've been surrounded by this amazing community today and learned so much from every single one of you. I cannot wait to re watch. I got the privilege of getting to see behind the scenes of each of your classes, but I can't wait to re watch it. And I can't wait for all of you to also see their amazing classes. And as we sort of come to an end in our conversation here, we just want to take a second to think every single one of you for being here and sharing your knowledge. Thank you. And thank you so much. Obviously, to honey book and Creative live two powerhouses in the creative economy coming together to bring incredible knowledge and education. Right, Teoh your computer screen and your device wherever you're watching this. So we can't wait to see more from all of you. And thank you guys so much for tuning in.