You might know Will Pugh as the singer, guitarist and primary songwriter for Cartel, a mainstay of the 2000s pop-punk scene along with contemporaries like The Starting Line and Something Corporate. But what you might not know is that Will has been quietly building a name for himself behind the console as a producer in Nashville where he's worked with bands including TEAM*, Hydra Melody and Baby Baby. We caught up with him to get the details on what he's been up to lately, what he learned from his years as an artist, and of course hisĀ juicy list of gear porn.
"Producerā can mean a lot of different things. Can you talk about what your approach is? How much of a hand do you like to have in writing and arrangement vs engineering and mixing?
I see each project as a different experience. Some artists need little to nothing arrangement/writing wise. Some need more in that area. For me, itās all about what is going to get us to the best final product possible. Iāll always put importance on engineering/mixing because thatās my āfilterā through which the listener gets to experience the artist. Thatās where I hope to make my mark.
Everybody loves some gear porn. Can you give us a rundown of what cool toys you have in your studio? How much do you work in the box?
Iām a gear porn addict. haha. I love it more than working sometimes. My room is built around everything else but drums. I think drums is an instrument that can be fluid in what it needs to be tracked best for the project so Iāll float around to different rooms to get what I need. Whatās in my room is a lunchbox with the essentials..a couple Rupert Neve 511 preās which are REAL nice, an Inward Connections The Brute, and Iām about to get a pair of Maag Eq 4ās. Iāve got a Hairball 1176 Rev A (Blue Stripe) and an Ashdown bass head for tracking.
For my mix bus I come out of an Apogee DA16x through a Dangerous 2Bus LT into a Regular John Recordings Compressor that is somewhat of a secret weapon. Itās got a really cool multiple switch ratio system where I can combine different ratios rather than having to choose just one. Detented Attack/Release knobs, a Sidechain filter, and a Blend knob are very sweet. Iāve also got a Lundahl transformer that can be defeated if I want and a Distortion circuit thats very cool for printing drums through prior to mix down. As far as mics go I rely on a small selection since itās mainly vocals/guitars being recorded in my room: a Manley Reference Cardioid, a couple tricked up 57s, 421, SM7B, and a Sterling Audio ST59 thats one of the first they builtā¦youād be astonished at how many times that mic beats out mics 3-4x the price! With all this stuff I usually just do my processing in the box and send my mix out through all the aforementioned gear and that does a nice job of widening/warming the mix so I donāt spend all my time recalling what Iāve done prior.
Youāre living and working in Nashville these days. I know you arenāt a huge country fan, but Iām sure you would agree that the level of talent among the Nashville guys who work on that stuff is off the charts. What have you learned from your time in Nashville?
Iāve learned that I suck at playing any instrument compared to these guys. haha. Iāve got my own thing that Iām better at but as far as an apples to apples comparison theyāre just next level. Itās really awesome to use these guys for keyboard/piano parts that Iām incapable of playing. Makes my life really easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxcVORJ4SB8
Since Cartel was plugged into the major label system, you had a chance to work with some really elite producers and studios that a lot of bands never do (especially these days). Were you conscious of that at the time? Looking back on it, what did you from those studio experiences and how do you use it now?
Thatās probably my greatest asset as a producer - that I saw these guys working while I was an artist that knew what all the gear did! I picked up so many things that jumpstarted my education in this world. I definitely wouldnāt be capable of doing this as a career now without their tutelage. However, the biggest thing I learned is how to keep the session moving and upbeat when itās feeling like a struggle. Being a psychic ninja is a skill often overlooked in the production world.
From what Iāve read, youāre a fan of what I would call the āmajor label rockā sound of the late 90s and 2000sā Rich Costey, Andy Wallace, etc. How do you translate that sound into the reality of todayās recording world, where the budgets and gear used on those records are out of reach for most bands?
I do love how those guys get their records sounding. Itās just open and natural while being powerful and hyped at the same time. Obviously the gear has a lot to do with that and itāll take a decade of doing this to amass that kind of collection so I keep my sights set at their caliber of recording while keeping in mind that Iām decades behind them. It allows me to figure out how to arrive at something we all love while pushing myself onward and upward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1H2xLXygBw
I really liked your mix on the TEAM* album. It feltĀ very big, open and dreamy while still sounding polished and modern, like an updated āPet Soundsā kind of vibe, especially the drum sound. Can you talk a little about making that record?
Iāll forever be thankful for TEAM allowing me to work on that record. Theyāre super talented dudes with great songwriting tact so it allowed me to focus more on the sounds than what we were working with which is every producerās dream. We tracked those drums in one day out at Taylor Tatchās place in Dallas. He had a really cool setup that was easy to get up and rolling so we just banged out the drums while knowing the vibe we were going forā¦too easy, right? From there we were just really focused on not doing ātoo muchā. Thereās little to no double tracking on that album which allowed the parts to come through individually without crowding the others even when thereās a lot going on. Caleb has a great ear for finding the āgapsā and creating something cool in those spaces.
Once it came to mix I just made sure that the mix didnāt get in the way. I used a lot of different reverbs to put things in their own space and give the whole album some depth and a specific āsoundā. I didnāt use any samples on the drums while trying to modernize them as much as I could through Eq/Compression but without losing the intent. Thatās where the āPet Soundsā vibe youāre catching came fromā¦.just letting the drums breathe. Itās a vast departure from the pop-punk world where everything is crushed and so in your face. Iām much more of a fan of just creating a soundscape the listener can dive into and surround themselves in because thatās what I like about my favorite records.
You are a really strong songwriter. Sometimes I feel like we get caught up in plugins, presets, and technical stuff and forget about the songs. How do you find that balance of technical and creative?
Thanks! I try not to have a philosophy/plan when it comes to a song. It needs to feel natural and that each part follows the previous one like it was the only way that song could flow. Once you realize that every song on an album isnāt going to be a āsingleā your life gets 1000% easier. Youāve gotta take people on a journey and allow yourself to take part in that journey first. If itās all about making āhitsā then youāre just running around in the same circle over and over again. That gets really boring I feel. When those āhitsā come it feels so much better because you didnāt have to fight so hard to get there. Surrender is a wonderful thing. haha.
Once the songs are āthereā and it feels like weāre ready to roll I just try to have a picture in my head of what the album/EP/song is going to do from a sonic standpoint and set off in that direction. Wrapping your head around every plugin, preset, etc. is just impossible. Itās good to know what stuff does but nothing is more important than the songās content. No one is gonna know if itās an 1176 or a dbx 160 so stop worrying about all that.
On the one hand, being a producer is more attainable than ever thanks to affordable technology and access to information. On the other, that means the field is more crowded than ever and itās tough for new producers to cut through the noise. What advice would you have for a producer whoās starting their career?
Donāt try to live off of it at firstā¦itās gonna take time to build a sound and your knowledge of how to work it. I feel like thereās an invisible wall behind the ease of getting into this world that technology has provided and we all hit it at one point. You need more than just a good ear and a knowledge of gain staging to produceā¦you gotta know how it all works and ways to manipulate your way to greatness. That only comes through time and experience both of which require patience.
A lot of these new producers will get washed out when times get tough so itās important to constantly educate yourself and get betterā¦.or get an engineer. haha. Most importantly, donāt count yourself as a professional just because you bought a Macbook Pro and Pro Tools. Thereās so much more to it than just being able to record something. Nuance is a highly underrated tool. Learn to live in the margins and this world gets a lot easier to navigate.
You might know Will Pugh as the singer, guitarist and primary songwriter for Cartel, a mainstay of the 2000s pop-punk scene along with contemporaries like The Starting Line and Something Corporate. But what you might not know is that Will has been quietly building a name for himself behind the console as a producer in Nashville where he's worked with bands including TEAM*, Hydra Melody and Baby Baby. We caught up with him to get the details on what he's been up to lately, what he learned from his years as an artist, and of course hisĀ juicy list of gear porn.
"Producerā can mean a lot of different things. Can you talk about what your approach is? How much of a hand do you like to have in writing and arrangement vs engineering and mixing?
I see each project as a different experience. Some artists need little to nothing arrangement/writing wise. Some need more in that area. For me, itās all about what is going to get us to the best final product possible. Iāll always put importance on engineering/mixing because thatās my āfilterā through which the listener gets to experience the artist. Thatās where I hope to make my mark.
Everybody loves some gear porn. Can you give us a rundown of what cool toys you have in your studio? How much do you work in the box?
Iām a gear porn addict. haha. I love it more than working sometimes. My room is built around everything else but drums. I think drums is an instrument that can be fluid in what it needs to be tracked best for the project so Iāll float around to different rooms to get what I need. Whatās in my room is a lunchbox with the essentials..a couple Rupert Neve 511 preās which are REAL nice, an Inward Connections The Brute, and Iām about to get a pair of Maag Eq 4ās. Iāve got a Hairball 1176 Rev A (Blue Stripe) and an Ashdown bass head for tracking.
For my mix bus I come out of an Apogee DA16x through a Dangerous 2Bus LT into a Regular John Recordings Compressor that is somewhat of a secret weapon. Itās got a really cool multiple switch ratio system where I can combine different ratios rather than having to choose just one. Detented Attack/Release knobs, a Sidechain filter, and a Blend knob are very sweet. Iāve also got a Lundahl transformer that can be defeated if I want and a Distortion circuit thats very cool for printing drums through prior to mix down. As far as mics go I rely on a small selection since itās mainly vocals/guitars being recorded in my room: a Manley Reference Cardioid, a couple tricked up 57s, 421, SM7B, and a Sterling Audio ST59 thats one of the first they builtā¦youād be astonished at how many times that mic beats out mics 3-4x the price! With all this stuff I usually just do my processing in the box and send my mix out through all the aforementioned gear and that does a nice job of widening/warming the mix so I donāt spend all my time recalling what Iāve done prior.
Youāre living and working in Nashville these days. I know you arenāt a huge country fan, but Iām sure you would agree that the level of talent among the Nashville guys who work on that stuff is off the charts. What have you learned from your time in Nashville?
Iāve learned that I suck at playing any instrument compared to these guys. haha. Iāve got my own thing that Iām better at but as far as an apples to apples comparison theyāre just next level. Itās really awesome to use these guys for keyboard/piano parts that Iām incapable of playing. Makes my life really easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxcVORJ4SB8
Since Cartel was plugged into the major label system, you had a chance to work with some really elite producers and studios that a lot of bands never do (especially these days). Were you conscious of that at the time? Looking back on it, what did you from those studio experiences and how do you use it now?
Thatās probably my greatest asset as a producer - that I saw these guys working while I was an artist that knew what all the gear did! I picked up so many things that jumpstarted my education in this world. I definitely wouldnāt be capable of doing this as a career now without their tutelage. However, the biggest thing I learned is how to keep the session moving and upbeat when itās feeling like a struggle. Being a psychic ninja is a skill often overlooked in the production world.
From what Iāve read, youāre a fan of what I would call the āmajor label rockā sound of the late 90s and 2000sā Rich Costey, Andy Wallace, etc. How do you translate that sound into the reality of todayās recording world, where the budgets and gear used on those records are out of reach for most bands?
I do love how those guys get their records sounding. Itās just open and natural while being powerful and hyped at the same time. Obviously the gear has a lot to do with that and itāll take a decade of doing this to amass that kind of collection so I keep my sights set at their caliber of recording while keeping in mind that Iām decades behind them. It allows me to figure out how to arrive at something we all love while pushing myself onward and upward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1H2xLXygBw
I really liked your mix on the TEAM* album. It feltĀ very big, open and dreamy while still sounding polished and modern, like an updated āPet Soundsā kind of vibe, especially the drum sound. Can you talk a little about making that record?
Iāll forever be thankful for TEAM allowing me to work on that record. Theyāre super talented dudes with great songwriting tact so it allowed me to focus more on the sounds than what we were working with which is every producerās dream. We tracked those drums in one day out at Taylor Tatchās place in Dallas. He had a really cool setup that was easy to get up and rolling so we just banged out the drums while knowing the vibe we were going forā¦too easy, right? From there we were just really focused on not doing ātoo muchā. Thereās little to no double tracking on that album which allowed the parts to come through individually without crowding the others even when thereās a lot going on. Caleb has a great ear for finding the āgapsā and creating something cool in those spaces.
Once it came to mix I just made sure that the mix didnāt get in the way. I used a lot of different reverbs to put things in their own space and give the whole album some depth and a specific āsoundā. I didnāt use any samples on the drums while trying to modernize them as much as I could through Eq/Compression but without losing the intent. Thatās where the āPet Soundsā vibe youāre catching came fromā¦.just letting the drums breathe. Itās a vast departure from the pop-punk world where everything is crushed and so in your face. Iām much more of a fan of just creating a soundscape the listener can dive into and surround themselves in because thatās what I like about my favorite records.
You are a really strong songwriter. Sometimes I feel like we get caught up in plugins, presets, and technical stuff and forget about the songs. How do you find that balance of technical and creative?
Thanks! I try not to have a philosophy/plan when it comes to a song. It needs to feel natural and that each part follows the previous one like it was the only way that song could flow. Once you realize that every song on an album isnāt going to be a āsingleā your life gets 1000% easier. Youāve gotta take people on a journey and allow yourself to take part in that journey first. If itās all about making āhitsā then youāre just running around in the same circle over and over again. That gets really boring I feel. When those āhitsā come it feels so much better because you didnāt have to fight so hard to get there. Surrender is a wonderful thing. haha.
Once the songs are āthereā and it feels like weāre ready to roll I just try to have a picture in my head of what the album/EP/song is going to do from a sonic standpoint and set off in that direction. Wrapping your head around every plugin, preset, etc. is just impossible. Itās good to know what stuff does but nothing is more important than the songās content. No one is gonna know if itās an 1176 or a dbx 160 so stop worrying about all that.
On the one hand, being a producer is more attainable than ever thanks to affordable technology and access to information. On the other, that means the field is more crowded than ever and itās tough for new producers to cut through the noise. What advice would you have for a producer whoās starting their career?
Donāt try to live off of it at firstā¦itās gonna take time to build a sound and your knowledge of how to work it. I feel like thereās an invisible wall behind the ease of getting into this world that technology has provided and we all hit it at one point. You need more than just a good ear and a knowledge of gain staging to produceā¦you gotta know how it all works and ways to manipulate your way to greatness. That only comes through time and experience both of which require patience.
A lot of these new producers will get washed out when times get tough so itās important to constantly educate yourself and get betterā¦.or get an engineer. haha. Most importantly, donāt count yourself as a professional just because you bought a Macbook Pro and Pro Tools. Thereās so much more to it than just being able to record something. Nuance is a highly underrated tool. Learn to live in the margins and this world gets a lot easier to navigate.