Post Production: We Are Photographers: Interview With Drew + Kenna
Like a seasoned pro, Kenna. How did that feel?
You know, it feels great. I mean, I am in awe of Aran's story and everything, her being who she is. And now, it's odd to talk about her when she's right over in the room, (laughing) still in the studio. But, you know, when you're doing it, I definitely felt myself going back and forth between thinking and then being present and like, overthinking. Thinking, "Is this what I wanted to get? "Where am I gonna go, next? "How do I get back to this particular topic?" So, I mean, I think it'll be a beautiful first episode. So I'm really grateful for that.
Yeah, what stuck out to you in the interview? Was there a point where you were sorta like, "Well, I didn't see the conversation going here. "This wasn't somethin' that I prepared for, necessarily, "but it was kind of a magical moment," where you were like, "Oh, I didn't know that about Aran"?
Yeah well, I didn't. So in full disclosure, because we were doing this li...
ve, we had a conversation so I could explain to her how this whole, this thing would go, which was slightly different than. I don't think I've had pre-conversations with my guests. They're either people that I know, or we're emailing, correspondence. Also, side note, most of the episodes that I've recorded have been via Skype. So we're not actually there,
Gotcha. in person with each other, which was a whole other issue. But--
Does that feel different?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, the ability to actually, physically be close to somebody, physically looking them in the eye, and actually, there's more to that because there's the feeling of it. There's not just the words or what you're listening to. So, you know, ideally, you're with that. I've been trying to figure out how to make that same connection through Skype. But I think that. So in this case, I knew that there were a few things that I did want to talk about. So I didn't understand. I didn't know the way that her cookbook was going to be ordered and some of the stories about her family. It was really beautiful.
That was really cool. Yeah, I didn't know any of that, either. So what happens? Let's shift gears a little bit. What happens for the CreativeLive podcast process, after this point? So you just captured all of this. How long do you go before you listen to it? Do you have some space? Some of the other podcasters, this week, are like, "I usually give it a couple days, "just so I have fresh ears." What's the process from here, all the way 'til somebody can download it? Today, right?
I mean, it's live, right?
It is live.
Okay well, talk about where to find it.
Yeah, but what's the process?
So the process. I have an incredible producer named Laura Finnerty. She is a host here, a producer here, at CreativeLive. She also has a background in radio. So she was an interviewer. Radio, she ran a radio station in Qatar for five years. She's British, so brings this incredible skill set that I don't have. And so, it's really become this partnership of creating these end pieces. So I've created, recorded, in audition. And then, I export those files, and I, then, put them onto Google Drive for her.
[Male Interviewer] Just one, big, raw audio file.
Yes, it's one audition file and then, the raw files that go along with that. I have been. What I've come to like to do is to listen to it and put markers in, in audition, as to some of my initial thoughts. And so, that's kind of a way to communicate a couple of things, notes if you will, for Laura. And then, Laura's process is fascinating because she is an audio person. I mean, that's her--
and skill set.
That's her skill set. I'm a visual person. As a photographer, I'm learning a lot about audio. But her brain immediately goes to, as she's listening to the conversation, what she would want to hear underneath it.
Got it, so sound bed, sort of soundscape style.
Yeah, exactly, and so she, for some of. We're testing out different styles. Again, we're new. And so, some of the episodes, three of the first four that people can go listen to, are these almost non-narrated pieces. So Laura's process was to go through and pick out the guests' audio clips. And then, in her mind, she's thinking about where that story comes together. And then, she is on free audio sites to get--
to find audio clips--
to layer in. Or even better, we reach back out to the guest, if there's something audio of theirs that we want to use. TY Bello, for example, one of the first episodes, is a Nigerian photographer. She's also an incredible singer.
I got a sneak preview of the podcast.
Yeah, I actually got to hear the podcast.
Fantastic. So Laura layered that into, and it beautifully goes from what she's talking about into what the song is talking about. So that's been a whole, exciting piece of putting this podcast together because it's not at all what I thought it was gonna be, in the beginning because of Laura. So Laura makes those edits. We're using something called Frame.io. To use that tool is something where she puts up the first cut of the episode so that I can listen to it and make any additional comments. As well as some of the other people, Kathy, who is our Executive Producer, is involved. And then, I go through and create, now, an intro and an outro.
Okay, so you do that, after the fact.
So I go back in, after.
So for this, what we just did, that's why I wasn't too concerned about--
Getting it super--
getting the clear intro for her. Because I will kinda figure out, go back and listen and write down what the biggest bullet points were for me of what the story will actually be. So that I can kinda give that, like, "Here's what We Are Photographers is. "Here's what you're gonna, in this episode, "what you're going to hear." And in the ones, then, where it's non-narrated, without me in the actual piece, where it's more of a bio, then I come back at the end and kinda of--
Talk about it.
Yeah, tie a bow on it and talk about where people can follow and subscribe and check out CreativeLive and all those things that I'm learning, trying to figure out which is the most important call to action. Now, we're playing with some cold opens so that you just go in and you hear that person, directly.
Right, and then go into my voice. So we're, you know, we're still doin' it and figuring it out.
And then, to finish that: What's the process? Laura finishes up the audio files.
How long is that iteration, sort of process? Like from she puts it up on Frame.io. You can enter in on it and make notes. She gets it back; she edits it. Does she send it back to you? Does that bounce back and forth a bunch, or is it like--
It hasn't been too many times--
one or two rounds?
back and forth. So again, we've only created four final episodes. So there's, and you know, we've been marching to the beat of today. So it'll be interesting to see what the regular style is.
The cadence, yeah.
But because we can work on kind of different work flows, the goal will be. We'll be releasing this podcast, weekly. And so, again, we have this bank of nine episodes that Laura will be editing together. And then, I'll finish off those intros and outros. But in the meantime, I will be kind of continuing to build this backlog of other guests. And it really is; what's so exciting is that it's endless. Like, I believe you can learn from anybody and everybody's stories. And so, there's just endless number of people to try to get out what their gems are.
And that's one of the things that, during Chase's buyin' the podcast segment, Chase was talking about. That was sort of the foundation of what became CreativeLive was like, "Let's bring; let's go out and talk "to all these different people "from all these different domains "and bring their expertise and their creativity "into photography." And bring it to the photographers, so that they can sort of apply those actionable things. So it's been fascinating to see, sort of, him having however many hundred podcasts he has. And then, Louis, he has his own podcast, and everybody in-between. And here you are, kinda just starting out. I think the point is sort of coming full circle in our conversation. You said the most important thing was just that you ended up doing it. Like, you could go out, with your recorder and record people. But until you actually figure out how to edit it and decide like, "I'm gonna pull the trigger on this thing "and make it happen and take action on it "and get my story out there," it's not gonna happen.
So what's your encouragement to other people, having just done it? And this is the youngest podcast on behind the podcast.
We're literally launching it, right now.
What's your encouragement to people?
I mean, I think it's the throughput, here, of what we do, everyday at CreativeLive. It is your lifelong learning. It's goin' out and doing it. It's finding people who are willing to spend a little time helping you, teach you some things. Again, whether that is resources online, shout-out to Adam, who's our Technical Director, who spent a lot of time helping me figure out how to record things, how to troubleshoot. That's a big thing. So just make connections with people. And I think one of the biggest pieces of advice that people keep giving me is: It's gonna be imperfectly perfect.
It is what it is. And just to trust that you will be able to look back and say, "Oh, that's what it was when it started." Because I tend to be a perfectionist. I have anxieties around all these types of things, thinking it should be perfect, thinking I should know how to do it all before even apprenticing, before even figuring it out. So letting go of that.
Letting go, and getting to a point where you can say, "Look at how far we've come."
Right, "This is where we started. "Look at how far we've come."