Lance Wyman Lecture
Hello everybody thank you for spending this friday night with us really excited that to kick off the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen lecture siri's this is my cofounders of civilisation corey guts and gave her a strawberry michael's so this whole thing started in two thousand twelve when we have an idea hey how can we connect our local design community with the design community at large and how can we inspire young designers and ourselves from our previous design designers that paved the way for us and also we just want to have dinner with their heroes so we say brought four people in last year some of you are with us and we're doing it again this year and I'm gonna turn over cory for run a show tonight so tonight this event is being live streamed by our partners creative live thank you very much creative live and also again on I wanna say thank you to all of the sponsors for making this whole event possible after the lecture adrian and lance are going to have a discussion about the maki...
ng of lance's new book last woman the monograph which peter miller has for sale over there some signed copies you can also purchase those on peter miller dot com and then following the conversation there's going to be a q and a that's opened up and that's going to be accessed by twitter so if you want to ask questions for lance or adrian uh do that by tweeting at them and using the hashtag design lectures so before adrian shaughnessy takes the stage to introduce lance wyman I thought I'd take a moment to introduce adrian there are so many reasons why adrian shaughnessy is celebrated in a graphic design community not only is he a graphic designer and a creative director he's also a writer his book how to be a graphic designer without losing your soul should be part of every graphic design curriculum he's also a teacher at the royal college of art in london his his visual communication course includes a class titled collaborate or die on and he also makes books happen he's co founder of co founding partner of unit editions which produces some of the most coveted design books on the market and they've done quite a few of the prize specimens in civilizations designed library and the book that actually we're most excited about is thie beautiful amazing lance wyman monograph uh the monograph which of course is a is a unit edition release was not only published but also adrian was thie editor and if you haven't seen it uh we have it's here tonight definitely take a peek it's absolutely stunning without further ado adrian shaughnessy a lot of people are you okay with troops its way okay I'd always like to be the person that I get introduced us of conferences it's that person sounds great and the realities it's not quite as good. So my job which I'm delighted to perform and thank you to civilization for inviting may it's like a great phrases and thank you to civilization. My job is to introduce to you lance wyman, and then gabriel very kindly mentioned unit additions, which is the publishing company that I set up. I think it was about five years ago, and I may be getting on for six on by set it up with a very wonderful english graphic design. A guy called tony brooks. Some of you might know tony's. His studio is called spin and they're really very good. And tony, I set up, you know, additions with one ambition, really, which was too actually two ambitions. One of the main ambition was to produce the books, just like the guys want to have conferences and lectures with the people that they admire. We wanted to do books on the people that we admire, and the second reason was thiss kind of trying to break away from the traditional publishing model anyway. So we made a list when we started you new additions. Before we publish anything, we made a list. As you do, designers make lists that's what they do it's very nicely designed list on day, one of the first names on the list was lance wyman because we could not understand when you see his lecture in a minute you're not you will have that you have the same thought we could not understand why no one had produced the lance wyman monograph so it took awhile tio bring it to fruition we spent most of last summer with him we spent a long period on he and his wonderful wife mail over a very generous and they basically they gave us the run of their house where lance has his studio and so the book eventually got done so you're in for a treat he's a wonderful anecdotal ist he tells great stories every problem is I spent weeks interviewing him and he keeps telling me stories that he didn't tell me then so I you know, maybe they'll be a volume two anyway that's not for me ladies and gentlemen thank you adrian on thank you for inviting me out here. Um what I'd like to do is run through kind of a lot of the things that are in the book and try to shed a little light on my career how I got started and some of the work that I've done so uh start off I grew up in kearny, new jersey and I was born in new york on this map you can see manhattan where the offices now uh just behind the museum of natural history on west eightieth stream and I went to school in brooklyn and actually my first job was at general motors and no one understood my english after carney in brooklyn but I've learned since ah that's the townhouse the bay window is where the the office is and this is really my my work before I got involved with the olympics and you can see the sixty eight the little sixty eight there is the beginning of the olympics and I've done quite a bit of work since the olympics and you could see this on the web site obviously I'm not going to talk about everything on the spiral now before I get into the work though I want to talk a little bit about experiences because you know, we all have experiences and one of my favorite experiences was my grandfather he was a real story teller and he had he had been in the spanish american war and then we got home from that anyone out west and he went out to new mexico and he actually met head garrett the guy that supposedly shot believe the kid so he was out there in a pretty interesting moment um he was one of my favorite people when I was a kid you told me all this story's and that's him um out in new mexico and I start I want to be a cowboy if you're hearing stories I didn't quite do that thank goodness I was also the kid, the classic and draw, and I know a lot of you that are designers were probably that same kid I was able to job pretty well and I got into boxing when I was I don't know fourteen thirteen and I had four was in a boy's club ahead four flights and I discovered what a counter punch was, but it was not my counter punch and I went up on the seat of my pants and I thought, you know, that's not a very good career to follow either. My father was a fisherman and I spent a lot of time out on the atlantic and that's really a pretty good environment it's really no nonsense environment, and I think that's helped me a lot with kind of boiling things down to in a steady that is pretty basic. I worked in factories quite a bit when I was a kid I worked my way through college and you could do that and it's probably not so easy to do in hell, and I was pretty popular I was president and my my senior class and actually this is I think, my first posting my friends still don't believe that I still pants the rhyme be with likely and say they didn't believe it, I knew how to spell pants I went to credit after graduating from kearney high school and at that point they didn't teach graphic design in the undergraduate school so I didn't know a graphic design what so I went up studying industrial design and at that point we were pretty poor actually and my my mom and dad had to sell their home and they wind up living in a trailer someway my graduation address in the graduation book from fred is a trailer address and I wanted to give I want to make trailers okay so I developed a trailer that you could open up and it became three times its size and this is back in nineteen fifty nine sixty on dh the school interviewing a national competition I want an honorable mention so weii spoken about that between my junior and senior year pred the general motors this is the tech center which was brand new at that point in warren michigan and general motors went around all the schools and they interviewed students and they selected me to represent the industrial design school at pred now that was a really that was a real milestone in my career because proud at that point it was a pretty style at school so I had had problems I just couldn't do stylized work the way they wanted so I wouldn't general motors and was that general motors that I met a student from yale hiram ash and hiring was studying with paul rand and it was the first time I saw a graphic design, and I think that was I never have returned back sense. I did a hotel like I was out there for the industrial design program. So I did a hotel, which is kind of a motel in the water. And I also did the graphic design program that that was a study for hyatt roller bearings. I went back to president, finish my senior year, and you can see the hyatt logo on it. Well, I had a lot of solve masses posters for alcoa, uh, in my work area and I really got into graphic design. I was hired by general motors after I graduated from fred, and my first professional work was the delco symbol and the delco packaging program. And this is funny, because when adrian, when unit published their second manuals book, adrian asked me to write the president the control, the forward and manuals except they really hate man. You'll see we'll write that. And so ok, so, uh, I'll tell you why I hate them, but then I realized, like, this program and I had to do the manual for, um, you know, twelve hundred different designs and packages, so I love manuals, too, because we knew it would have been able to control of the system. I did my military service, and I was in advanced infantry and I did a lot of kind of, um I was in mortars, so I was the guy that figured out how to where, where to put the shots. So I got I got a good those of mets and I didn't realize it. Then with this has certainly helped me in my career. When I got back to the military, I worked at schmidt office in detroit and, uh, they got a job with the department of commerce and saga of yugoslavia, and I wound up doing the graphics for the u s pavilion at the er at the fair. And this is when I really started getting into, you know, my industrial design, training, my understanding of the third dimension and my love for communicating with simple graphics. That thing with the show is construct abuse of leisure time. I use the sun and the moon time telling the hourglass for time and suggested we did the entrance and we did it, you know? And it was like, well, let's, play this to this day the largest thing I've ever done, and we make informed panels with the hourglass shape detroit was, you know, at that time they were feeling their oats, and it was really interesting working there. I came back to new york after that experience and I worked with george wilson I was hired by irving harper actually and sadly irving just passed away not that long back now and irving was the designer of the chrysler privilege ian's world's fair pavilion and it had five islands it was designed for children and I did the graphics for irving now it was for children so I developed a a pointing hand a v I p a very important person pointing hand and used you know cufflink chrysler and kids were this and it had a nice impact at the fair because it was large enough where when you saw it way remind you there was a chrysler pavilion I also used the pointing hand as a directional device because we had five islands and we had to indicate somehow what was on each of the island so I got into a way finding really early this is back in nineteen sixty four and as part of that my my factory experience came in very handy too because you know I thought this for kids and I worked in factories and I knew all that stuff he had to be careful of and I thought maybe kids should be aware of this so I did a series of posters for the children and developed a little man and put him through some of this stuff that you know stuff you have to be careful about and howard miller howard miller uh after the fair developed with I had developed for having miller in the nelson office a whole series of safety posters based on that price of privilege and, um, experience and they had dupont I know used them in all their factories and everything, so it was interesting too kind of take the factory experience and somehow reinvigorate that. Now at that time, the head in new york this is work by visit riley, the the irish of artists and they had a show on up are in new york, and I loved it because it was it was just experimentation of how do you make energy? How do you make movement happen on the flat surface in most cases? And it was a beautiful experience, and it was time for me because at that time I had an opportunity to go to mexico. Um, I'll tell you the story briefly one of the architects that worked on the mexican civilian came over and worked at the nelson. All of this isn't a was eduardo tear acis and, uh why don't I were good friends working together at the nelson office. The other architect who had done the pavilion, the mexican civilian in new york was roominess baskets, and at that time mexico is the only nation in latin america that had been awarded the olympic program and it was because of a president, a former president of mexico, and he was the chairman of the olympic committee and during the you know, the proof preparations for the games. You got very sick and he went into a coma and they made him eat his baskets. The chairman of the committee and he called it poirot, who I was working with, and I found out that they were going to have a competition for the graphic. So that's kind of story in a nutshell. And I found out that they've been invite individual graphic designers down for a two week period. So I signed up for that, and at that time I was working with peter murdoch, who I had met at the royal college on vacation trip. Uh, peter and I were going to start an office in new york anyway. So that's that there's peter peters that's, my wife and everything happened in that year. My my wife just came back when she was my wife, then which just came back from the peace corps and I met her. She moved in with the girls upstairs. We got married that year. Um, I met peter early in the year. He had a scholarship from the royal college. He came to new york and we were working together. And this is actually our very first day in mexico city. Said the old elevator park this is kind of the cast of characters. That's eduardo on the left, that's, roominess baskets uh, he was the chairman of the olympic committee. A tease girds is the tollbooth back. He was like my mentor and he was a wonderful part of my life down there that's, peter murdoch and that's myself. And this was really part of the core of the very, very, very early planning of the olympics in mexico. And this is a previous basket's work, the museum of anthropology, and I spent I think, the first week, just over at the museum of anthropology I had no idea about the culture of mixed goal, and he was the head pin yacht is, and all of a sudden I was immersed in this kind of wonderland of just beauty. Actually, the early cultures were sensational. And of course, at that point, this is sixty six million of sixty six and of course, no computers, so I still keep all of my compass is and everything, and this is I still keep this to me. This is the, uh the drawing that really took the five rings in this way hey manuals because you can't get this close to it you know an identity I'm sure you can't do this with the olympic rings anymore but that was the geometry that allowed the year the event sixty eight it agree with the five rings and then from that I was able to develop the lower type mexico sixty eight and then from that and then thank you present reilly and all the people at the at the show in moment way got as much energy out of out of this program visually as we could. So this became the official poster that was twenty nine years old a tw that point um the poster was immediate success it was in the museum of modern art show in new york on posters that here and I used it in many, many, many, many ways I mean, this is a postage stamp. We use it as murals and you can see how painful it was to put one of these things these images on the wall I mean, I know that if you make any variation in the lines that's the first thing you see in these these muralist are the guys that painted these these walls which is sensational and, you know, we had a lot of them around mexico city. We use the pattern on dresses you didn't need the mix by sixty eight to know that it was part of the olympics and then for the tree and now in milan I worked very closely with eduardo tear acis on this and this is the model and this is the actual looking into the entrance of the mexican trillion in milan this is actually on display in the latin american architectural show at moment in new york right now and we did a lot of three dimensional applications. This only happened once this was opening day and then they realize this might not be a good idea to have people and then from the mexico sixty eight had developed a complete typeface and the other thing that is very important here is that what's what's this look started uh, you know, the mexico sixty eight once that happened, people started coming into our office and wanted copies of it. It looks mexican and a little mexican because I really immerse myself into a lot of the, uh pre hispanic culture. They use a lot of lineal design and of course, the reach role in a lot of folk art that's done. Now the artist in you uh, uses the same type of images so it really is born out of the culture itself in that sense and in fact we had we troll indians come down through the museum of anthropology and what what we did I screen onto a piece of plywood that what they do they cover them with would surface with wax with bees wax then they push yarn into it and you can see here uh they took they took the pattern and we let him do anything they wanted and, uh, you know, it was a really nice experience and it was very helpful for us as faras we had a structure that didn't have to change and we always do is change the color and it was a branding image that gave us a lot of leeway without going too far at all. And of course, this was very important for the publication where we did it was also very important I did a lot of stamps for the olympics and this particular siri's had a you know, various subject matters and but I just I started radiating everything you know did it with stamps and we also radiated at the stadiums and this was beautiful. I mean, we couldn't afford in mexico toe match what they didn't tokyo four years earlier where they really did spend a lot on architecture. This is the existing university stadium and we did all the applause is with radiating lines coming out of the entrance exit areas and this was beautiful flying in the mexico city to see these are colorful venues they were big we did a lot of experimentation with third dimension we flew balloons you know so you could spot from the highway that you're getting near a of an installation of sports. The other part of the program that was really important was thie identifying the different sporting events now in tokyo they did stick figures in munich after mexico games you stick figures again we didn't use stick figures we focused on a a piece of equipment or part of the body and did what you normally see as far as the image in the cliff systems lion and earlier cultures in mexico when water was involved uh that became part of the icon are simple and there's english I was talking about and here's the full set there were nineteen sporting events in mexico that one of the top in the center is the olympic village and this is kind of interesting because you know we use the the symbols without words and that was the other thing they had a rule when you did the program for the olympics you had to use three languages in mexico with spanish, french and english and when you're trying to use three languages on a sign you go crazy and it's hard enough with one written language so we tried to avoid the written language completely except for publications and then we had one publication for each language. Now this is interesting and thiss without knowing it I had launched myself into it career of icons that you know and I had to do a lot of arguing as far as using icons for anything except for the olympics because people said well like guns for literate people and I knew after this experience that icons just communicated certain things really really well well now we won't know it rule sick of them but they would be in the army I had other devices I call them you know, basic elements of the program on I think of these elements is that they're like helpers like you're designing a helper I think kind of help you communicate things and this was going back in the early greek games and the silhouette and I developed a siri's of first was postage stamps and there was a reason for this because at that point they didn't have a four color press they didn't have registration on the stand so by simply dropping out mexico sixty eight and over printing with black I was able to get a good you know, siri's of stands for the nineteen sporting events and by designing a stamp that when you place it next to itself the motion carries through that was a very helpful aspect of it in the states themselves became a very a very vivid expression of the overall program this's I I'm a little very showing is and I'm not accusing them move but you know, I I was driving down the west side highway and can my wife and I were driving down the west side highway was two thousand four and they had all the billboards out for the ipod and I saw a billboard my foot why are my stamps up there you know I think it was so weird it was really weird so I had to do this I'm sorry apple I used the silhouettes in a very constructive useful way and this is an example now I mentioned before we didn't want to use any lane which will we use languages for proper names for dates and uh you know and so forth and we use numbers of course now this is an olive green ticket away tickets on october fourteen would be olive green and then the area well the estadio was called out by name that's where the track and field events took place but the only thing that indicated track and field was the track and field symbol and then that blue strife if you're looking for your seat you go to the blue area of the stadium goto entrance thirteen and then wrote ten seventeen so it was all just very, very literal and we didn't get one complaint we didn't use any language on this and I still haven't been able to do with system that it's so simple is this and I hope I have a chance and here's thirteen the entrance and you find your seat from there and you can see that the tickets themselves were very colorful uh part of the olympics and of course colors of the part of mexico so that was important no you know in talking about icons um one of the things that we did and I think was the first time that a country develop the cultural programme that managed the sporting events we had nineteen cultural events and end up in the left hand corner was the program I can itself and this really really gave me I don't know the experience that I needed to just plow ahead keep you know finding strategy and finding ways of designing icon said worked in way finding and other types of systems now if you look at this one of the things that I learned is that the background shape of course is very important in the background shape for all of the cultural events where developed is developed by the sixty eight radio to a certain degree so and then we had a very diverse group of events we had valet we had different types of dances we had scientific programs we had children's programs we had locations this is when the flame came to the er peut work on the top of the pyramid and we had the dove of peace program so you can see that it's a whole bag of different things and by unifying it with the icons were able to put out a brochure and inflamed countries that were participating in the olympics to send their cultural people as well. So the program was really a bunch of symbols in a brochure, and we were having a very successful cultural program. Now the dove was really the first symbol that was used, and we use a lot of the elements for jewelry and things like that. But as far as the double was concerned, uh, dr king was assassinated in nineteen sixty eight and mexico is the first nation tio issue a stanford dr king and they asked me to design it. So that was really the first the first use of that dove. And then they had the student uprising and it's happened just weeks before the olympic games, and it was an incredible, tragic experience in mexico. I think over five hundred students were killed, and they used a lot of the elements that we developed for the for the games as anti government protest posters in nineteen eighty six, I think it was I gave a talk at a t university in mexico, and they gave me this book, and this was done in nineteen, eighty six years and, uh, they apologize for not having this book before, but the government wouldn't allow them to publish it, and it was a little this student protest posters for the student uprising and the fellow that was things at that point it was the dean of the school and at the point of the uprising he was one of the students out in the street and he was thanking me personally for creating a language a graphic language that he could use is a student to do protest posters and completely lost it I mean I didn't realize that I guess I had a feeling of being dirty for working for the government having kids killed I wasn't much older than they were and this was kind of like lifting something off my back was one of those experiences you just can't make up it was a very emotional moment and just last year the uh they asked me to do the logo for the memorial flunky local memorial so this is kind of a full circle it's come all right now so I used the dove pieces like a phoenix rising out of sixty eight so I just had a uh well two exhibits one was that walk which is it's a brand new museum at the university site in southern mexico city this is a poster I did and it was called coming and going and it was urban icons and it was really interesting to think in terms of urban icons because I've really that's what I specialize been most of my work and this is the horizontal version of it and it was so weird to see these things all over mexico city I mean really you know, promoted the exhibition and that's the museum and a lot of the early word they use this directional devices in the museum itself they reconstructed the maghrib entrance I guess an email a grill was doing her yoga in the so I got this email and it was just it was magical let's see all of this come together in one one place another project at that time was the community all hotel and again the forms of this are sensitive to things that you found in different suspects over the pre columbian nature in mexico I, uh honor that kind of form with stolen at the entrance and also in a more contemporary way uh, you know, combined the logo with itself and this was one of one of the entrances to the commune oriali in mexico city and they actually this is all steal this thing weighs in enormous amount of weight and they just brought him and there it is in the exhibition that's new little visitor now after the olympics I'm I'm dwelling on this early work because uh I realize how important it was and how important it is uh in a lot of ways I didn't really I was following my nose with a lot of this back then no hanging around with adrian and you know, uh historians in art critics and design critics I kind of realized it. There was a lot going on, and I was doing kind of emphatically. But, you know, not not really being intellectual about it, but I was very fortunate that I just got on the right track early on. So for the for the metro in mexico city, uh, in developing the icon is taking the zocalo. The zocalo is in mexico before the spanish came. I mean, this is really part of the city from way back. I took this city square there, zocalo, and cut into it three lines of the opening of the metro and filled it with orange because all the trains are orange. And then again, using my, uh, factory worker, mr transformed him into a uh uh, a subway worker or a mitral worker. And it was a welcome to the olympics from the metro. Typography is based on the logo now, here's. Where the what I showed you before the cultural icons really gave me an idea that why not identify all the stations with icons? And this is where it was really an uphill battle a little bit. Because everyone said, this is for literate people and people are going to think that mexicans are bunch of delivery. That's not true and fortunately I was able to stick to it and when we started doing the icons everyone started getting interested and this is from the first line these air eight of the stations and here's kind of ah you know the sports icons we did service icons and that was starting to happen at that point too and that's the cultural programme fared line down and you can see the metro icons are kind of in the same vein. The one thing I discovered with the icons for the cultural programs that with a background shape in the background shape of the mitchell and was perfect because you could put these things close together and you have a visual separation so I was able to, you know, really pack them in for the lines and, uh one nice thing I mentioned the show was kind of a magical experience for me and one of the things these two guys they developed the first thing lines with that's poncho on the left and arturo and they both came from the show that's arturo on the left put you on the right and you can see the arturo gave me one of the signs that used him is the model for all of these signs so he's been going up and down stairs now for forty years and this is just kind of an overview of some of the things but it's still it's still in operation, and I think now I have a chance to upgrade that I'm I just started working with city exploring possibilities to work with all of the transit systems and, uh, unify everything and we can do that it'll probably one of the first cities in the world that I can get these different, you know, transit heads to collaborate and doing overall program. My daughter was born in mexico city. This is her during the metro, and this is her now with my granddaughter at the exhibition last year. Now coming back to new york, it was like coming back after almost five years, and it was coming back cold. I mean, I was kind of known for the work I had done in mexico, but I didn't want to just come back cold in new york, so I joined with one of actually bill candidate was one of the vice president's at the wilson office and building I started, uh, the office lightning cannon, and we worked together for nine years, and we had a good nine years together. One of the things, this is the map from the metro and washington in mexico city, and I was developing a way of indicating how far you, where at different points by putting a circle around the stations and one of the first jobs that bill and I got was the mapping for the metro in washington d c and you can see the same thing here and I've been doing this and ever since you know with walking distance circle it's very helpful on a man we did the diagram map on uh last well about I think was that two thousand eleven lee I started working on it this is the new man they brought in a line from dulles airport they went right through the city center and it's called a silver line and I had that to the man things that one of those really experiences that was very interesting because the map itself has become like an icon for the city and no one wanted to change it it was so it was like designing camouflage I had to get that line in there and I had diminishes the size of you know the weight of the lines a little bit finally got it and it's been it's been successful but it was not easy and that was successfully another way and always happy when designed that it's a front facing the bottom part and the top part of the washington post and they did a really extensive article on the redesign of the map and just loving of course it's nice to get publicity but it's also nice to get designed out where people realize that design can have an impact there are designers and do things that everyone takes for granted and so forth so this was really a nice experience in that way and the show in mexico way do large examples of a lot of these things. One of my favorite things is actually one of our first jobs with bill and I were working together it's up in boston it's wcvb tv uh it's channel five and that weighs like this it's a very powerful integration of the arrow and five and again uh going into the third dimension and of course we did the national zoo and this is one of my all time favorite experiences. We did stone casting for all the furniture and based on the typography and one of the things that worked very well way put it being trail from the center than had adjacent trails off the main trail we named them after all this is the lion trail and then down to the bottom it says follow the lion tracks way worked with three end and they were developing colored materials that impregnated right into the you know, the walkway street way and uh we did this with them and these are great because they keep signing to a minimum and they would be overlaying once a year on uh you could find your way around this so each of the six trails had their own tracks bill evans did a program for the national mall uh this was for the bicentennial celebration in seventy six and my one of my all time favorites is the minnesota's and you know at this point this is back in the late seventy nine actually this is like actually this is the first project that I did independent ofthe woman cannon um and no no computers yet and the end and synthesizing you know here designing the numbers but synthesizing them with the animals that were on the beach trail and this this was actually selected in nineteen ninety two is one of the best designs in the country so we're very proud of that and then there's the most reconstructed in mexico um I've been a lot of work in a lot of places and I really enjoyed this program is for the lg art center it's a performing arts center in seoul korean and they wanted to use the other woman letter a for art and the idea was to have it are penetrating the building so to speak I esso women chicago with key architects and I worked very closely with the architects in seoul korea and the thing that I guess I really enjoy with this type of work is when I have a chance to combine branding with practical things like holding up signs um you know what becomes become special it becomes a more interesting experience at least for me it is so there you see a lot of the applications of that program and I've been a lot of this type of work with institutions with different cities and so forth I've been proved I think one of obama's official posters in two thousand I was sending my like five and ten dollars and twenty dollars in my wife said how's your poster doing and I checked it out and it was sold out and I must have made him thousands and thousands of dollars and I've been a member of sg almost from the time it was started I love the organization I had the honor of doing their fortieth so anniversary poster last year and I'll end with football football this is the world cup mascot back in nineteen seventy when they great brazilian team when the cover uh he's also the eagle is the buried in mexico like it's are buried and this was quite an honor they put all the lates down they reform I didn't design this designed the mascot but uh that was quite nice to see it a little down the main drag now up the date of when when adrian and tony were over interviewing me and going through all my files making a complete mess anyway studio this was doing the world cup and so we had to stop and go toe a build a bar or wherever and watch the game. So these are the games and it was a group in liverpool that asked me to represent the u s effort and to do a poster. And the deal was I had ninety minutes after the game was over. Do poster. Get it up! And it was on the wind. So that was kind of a challenge. We had the rush back from the bars after all the games. This was the first game going way. Meet him to one. And we're in a very tough sixteen group. We tied portugal, which was again great. And then we played. Germany is very respectful, respectful that we lost. But germany in the u s got out of that awful group of sixteen. So there we go. So that the medics team we played was building. That was under my posting career. Uh, so I want to thank adrian, who is here tonight, and I want to thank tony and I want to thank unit for doing again. I mean, having that exhibition was a magical experience for me, but this book is over the top. I mean, I just love what they did on, uh, adrian, thank you very much and for me,