Shoot: Lighting Backdrops - Modeling Lights & Gels
Let's just let's just make sure that everybody is up to speed and on par does anybody have any last meeting questions that are lingering that might be noodling around in there since you've had a couple of breaks now some lunch because I want to make sure that that you are fully understanding the control that you have of never being fooled ever again by an exposure you should never miss an exposure of all the things that I mess up it's not usually an exposure problem well what's today because I forgot that I I went back and shot without closing down the to stop so we were a little hot on one shot but but for the most part I don't miss exposures and why mess up a lot of things but not exposures and it's because I do the same thing every day have created habits have created a world that I and everybody around me knows that oh you're working with tony oh well then keep a meter handy you know, because he's going to be calling for it all day long and you know a car a carpenter can't make a c...
abinet that's twenty three and a half inches wide that's nine inches deep that's thirty one and a quarter inches high without a tape measure that sort of looks like thirty one and a quarter inches I'll just put it right there you don't guess that stuff it doesn't work, it doesn't fit, you get close candle visually and exposure, I think, is the same way you will hear name photographers that will argue this with me and said, I don't even meet her I've got digital I've never needed a meter since the digital that's fine, whatever works for everybody is ok but for me I got it I just this is what this is where I live so all right, so let's, talk about the backdrops. This is another one he's gorgeous backdrops this is this fabric. This is all from the white house and these these backdrops are made in the lab on this wrinkle three wrinkle feet wrinkle free fabric on wrinkle free fabric this thing has been in my case for a week and there's no it's that's, wrinkle free, basically it's not all pulled up and wanted up in wrinkled that size. They're really reasonably priced too and there's hundreds and hundreds of shapes and sizes. What I like about him is that they're not they don't print him until you order one when you order, then they print and it's just it's kind of a cool side of the way they've got it all set and jed tougher and his team that put this all together, they do a great job on these, um but but I like this one a lot it's a subtle gray with a little bit of a little bit of a design texture to it. So we're going to start with this and I want to show you some of the options that we have s o the thing, the thing to think about what the backdrops too is, you know, most studio owners, if you are a portrait studio, a traditional portrait studio owner, you might have one, two, three, four, five background, then that's fine, but but always remember that you do get second ruts and variety helps, and we can do so much with digital, and then sometimes you just can't do things with digital. What I like to do and what I've always sort of been pretty adept at is controlling and changing the look of my backdrops by not only how I like him, but how I color so we're going to change some colors here today as well, and we'll make this great appear black and then we'll make it appear vibrant red, we'll make it, we're going to change its appearance, so to speak, on dso all that can be done because you know how to use a light meter, right? So that's, the that's, the big key here, so I wouldn't mind starting out if we can get bringing over here come on over my dear is this the same girl with her with her red lipstick in her hair a pie this is great and so she's wearing a neutral blacktop so weaken so they're being not a lot of contrast on the background but with these lips are just going to burst out and look at the color on her face so this looks really good so let's get the modeling land limps on here we'll get this guy powered on and I should be on full and means raise that up a bit okay okay let's bring that up let me get around here and let's go ahead and move it to the your left just about a half a step down something like the little bit more even just a little bit more there you go and then let's pivot that around this way and we'll kind of keep it off that background a little bit so we can like that separately so first things first let's talk about in the world of backgrounds let's make the background look like the background really looks okay so we know that we talked about that earlier we've got to make sure that the exposure on the backdrop is the same as what we're shooting at so that's the first step so we're not saying let's take a reading here first and let's establish what we're what are shooting aperture is can you move forward just a half step and let's move this out just a bit and I don't want to back up too far, but I do want to get this away from that backdrop as much as I can get away with something like that, maybe let's try that. Ok, good. Okay, so so we're eleven seven so on my camera eleven seven is way up there his name I know what the exposure is if thirteen is eleven point is living in third f fourteen is eleven and two thirds so where it f fourteen, which is the same is eleven, seven eleven point seven is eleven and two thirds, which is f fourteen and that's when I didn't design the system, I've just got to learn to live with the system, but it wasn't my idea to do all of that. If the meter manufacturers in the camera manufactures we get together, we could fix all that, but just giving everybody the same numbers but way don't do that. So for the background do you meet her toward the camera toward the light toward the light for the light? Yep. Eleven nine eleven nine right behind her head. Yeah that's pretty close a little bit, yeah, right in there look eleven to come up a little bit, they're great and then what we'll do is let's turn on this accent we'll kill on this accent like and I'm going to power this guy up and we're gonna put what powers at all this stuff. This one is that three point two. Take a look. Take a look at that right there and some of what that reads. Five, six point nine, five, six, nine. So that's f eight, eight, eight, one. My shoe net, right. Almost sixteen. So it's one and two thirds below. Let's. Leave it there. So you can see what minus one and two thirds looks like it's. Still plenty of accent that's. The thing that blows your weights like, but we're stopping two thirds underneath. Yeah, you are. But it's. Still plenty of accent. Okay, my dear. You look great. I want to move you that way. Just a niche. There you go. And I want to bring your head around to me this way a little bit. Right there. Right there. No fair moving. Nobody moves, nobody moves and nobody gets hurt. Ok, so in this case, the she looks like she looks. The accent is dead on and the background looks like the background is supposed to look. Really. There you go. So look at that accent look at can we zoom in on her left eye? Mike thank you and just look at that accent over there look how much detail there is look out much texture there is in the side of her face you see that guy's that's minus one and two thirds bi lo what I'm shooting at it blows me away how people match their hair lights to their main light and then understand why they're here let's look so hot all the time well dummy drop them dot the power try it look what happens at minus two even I've still got depth and shape and form and detail in that highlight it's awesome it does show wild hairs so you need to fix the wild hairs or you're going to have to do some cloning later no dinner tonight no dinner tonight so that would be where you that that's what you would get your makeup artist and saying let's let's sprints down those flyaways and pushing back you know with a little hair spray but I mean, look at look this is a gorgeous look for her I think beautiful with her hair up like that looks like a different person energy I think it is I'm back out mike if you can if you can hear me and let's just take a look at it yes so in this case that background tends to go just a little bit cool when it's when it's that well it's just basically almost a blue background is it it uh but I love the look I love the quality that like so density wise that background looks kind of like it looks but it's not evenly illuminated because we do have the light coming from one side so there are two things that you can do so evenly aluminum first first things first let's do this I want to bring this this light back away from the background back out here and now let's go ahead and let me stay with me I'm gonna have to power to set about to stop me probably I'm going to stop here you go hit it well who eleven to two tenths slower than it wass so it's too tense lois I'll go up to ten and go live in four okay so so now by backing it up and moving it over here what do you think I just accomplished even be loud bobby proud I spread it out I just made it now it's even now corner to corner my densities going max right there I've gotta fall off on the lower right corner now I won't have my fall off I'm not going to have the density shift and that's the thing if you want a background to be evenly illuminated you gotta back that light up and evenly illuminated that's that's our job so let me just take another look at that and we'll see how even this little guy looks great great great turn your head just a little bit right there. Great perfect. So now we're evenly illuminating the background looks like the background looks because it's what I'm shooting out within it's almost the same thing I'm shooting it um do this for me I want you to stand up tall again and I want your hands on your hips a little bit so here's the thing a small posing tip when photographing a woman if you want to see their waste and you want to see their shape and you wantto remove ten pounds all you have to do is have a little bit of air right through here you gotta have that air right through there and by doing that we got it just let your hands be at two different levels I don't care what they are there you go. Good. She does need to be yeah, now this is bring your head way around here to me a little bit more yeah, yeah, send down now. Down, down, down oh, perfect, perfect, gorgeous. Winning. All right, I'm just gonna back up a little bit with my zoom and I don't think I'm gonna flip isto I'm gonna flip this one shot two vertical for just a second, you guys, I just want to get this without that background light there we go good, good good good okay so let me get that here limited one more time when you had quite a bit more that's it right there in your eyes at me great good okay how's our exposure looking house are color balance looking good about it's okay exposures okay artist a gram's okay, all of that stuff is all that stuff is doing what it's supposed to do um you know, mention with white balance using oh, I am news I'm using day like my wife bounces set on daylight and I think that's the part that kind of freaks people out but you didn't do a custom I about you know because I know these life for fifty five killed tony is it possible for us to see the history graham on this one? Well yeah I'm sure and white room and conduct from light room because I hear info there that one I'm plugged into the tether it more show me so maybe mike if you could if you could show the lie room u I if you could just go to the history and so look perfect look at the history and look in the upper right corner you see that little gap I just need the gap guys and on the left side look I've got a gap what that means is as far as it goes to the left it doesn't quite block up there's still a gap there what that tells me is it will print with detail and I don't know how to stress it any more strongly it will print with detailed as long as that france with detail I'm happy guy and and on the highlights side it shows me that you have got this great highlight yeah I've got a pretty bright background but I've also got a gap which means it's gonna print with detail think about this think about the opportunity when you shoot and if I over expose that and I shoved that history ram to the right and it clips to the right the issue is think about if you guys are going to make any jet print if you make any jet print I think in terms of where the highlight is if there's no detail in it no ink will lay down on the paper so all you get there's paper white that's the problem and then when you hold that print up the light and you're looking this print you're looking across the surface of this print what do you see anybody know that it's that shiny dole shiny the whole thing it's that metabolism or whatever the word is what is it the tamarins the cameras emmett's it's a uh it's a marbling look and that the terrorism means it's the inability for that paper to get any ink from the printer because there's no information in the file there's just no information so that's why but I love the fact that that I'm glad you asked to see that I'm let it worked photography zero tony one they're way have a quick request from chris duncan that I actually think will be really helpful and love chris duncan do you does chris duncan from texas I have no idea the c r s c r that's chris duncan well there you go ahead well chris duncan wants to know if it's possible to have you make three exposures building the light so we can see what the contribution of each of these lights actually is totally great question let's turn off the background and turn off the accent way to go chris duncan chris's on lubbock texas brilliant photographer he's a weirdo but he's a great photographer I'm sure he's going to respond to that wait I'm gonna I'm gonna do this horizontal don't shoot this vertical so I'm gonna go ahead and come in horizontal here and I'm just gonna shoot pretty close like there's like there's like number one damn not turn that on john don't move there don't move don't move nobody moves there's like number two and now go ahead and turn on a light number three and here's the buildup sequence here is like number three and nobody moves nobody moves nobody moved great okay so there's our buildup sequence we got three shots bam bam bam she doesn't change and this is this is something people always ask me about when when there's multiple lights on the shooting his multiple lights on the set how do you how do you function with? Aren't the other lights causing you troubles? No, and the reason they're not cause me trouble is because I always have one key light on lee won there I'm not going to allow any other light on this set to hit her face that's going to mess with my main light? My main line is everything here it's what establishes what she looks like so I cannot let that get get messed up at all, so I'm not going to I'm never gonna add another like to that face, I'll add reflectors I'm not going any more light, so I cannot mess up exposure, so those exposures remain exactly the same her hair exactly the same amount of light, so I don't know which one you like, but I do like that accent on her from that position and the fact that it's minus one and two thirds is a pretty big deal because it does set straight aa lot of naysayers that don't buy into what I teach sometimes there are like, well, I just just shoot at the same exposure while you can, but you won't have detail in there anywhere, so ok, so on the background let's go back to the background for a second so let's talk about this right now we've got that background evenly illuminated ok, well I can get away with that because she's standing like this and I'm shooting horizontal I'm zoomed in pretty close but if I backed up and I was trying to see fully my life might be in the shot so I might need to move my light let's just say you are sitting more fooling shot and let's say your background life has to be over listen let's just let's say it over here it's got to be off the set so let's just say it's over here so I've got this grady and going across and this this also comes into play but we had the high key question earlier on a white background and I haven't forgotten that I'm in and I'm going to address that but here's the thing that to think about in the studio it's I think a good idea to not use permanently mounted backdrops that are in the ceiling with rollers that roll up and down I think it's a good idea not to use those I think it's a great idea to use portable background stands and the reason for that is simply that I can then move them okay so right now without life from this side do you think it's brighter over here on the left you better this you bet it is and it's and it's less bright over there but here's what we have the ability to do let's just move the background it's just a background so let's just move one side forward forward, forward, forward until we're more evenly illuminating the background get the idea what difference does it make it so background and think about that in a white background situation think about a high key situation where you've got one life and you're lighting it from one side skimming across and you cannot get that light to be even it's light here and it's fallen often dark gray over there are light gray over there great then just turn that background till it flat lights into the light source you got yourself no more fall off let's try it let's take a picture you got exposure did roll that ball that background I mean tip it turned out like this way a little bit sorry which was this way, mr piven it a little bit a little bit there you know that that'll do russia good and then yeah that's fine right there eleven two can you turn up two tenths okay, here we go, here we go this is pretty closely match the other one and I have no falloff across this background ready set go get the idea remember what I said last time last session? You got to think like a photographer and sometimes it seems like such a silly statement what would a photographer do? Guess what you am one just do what they would do what would a photographer do? I've watched every geographic special there's ever been I've watched every time those guys go out and shoot in the field with their cameras and their video cameras. Holy toledo, those guys get themselves in binds. Did you ever see the one with nick nichols where he was crossing the amazon and he couldn't open his camera to change film because there were so many millions of flies? Cc flies all over him and all around his gear and he needed to change film and he's got it's kind of like well, there's hundreds and hundreds of flies, a little baby money flies that went into his camera and they had to come up with a way to get that film out of there and one of the guys came up with a big a piece of paper cardboard and they were just like fan and like crazy so already said open he had opened reaching pull this film up but the new film and close the back and no flies got him you know you get very, very clever when you're in a situation where you have to succeed you know, and I think that's the way I love the mind of photographers because because so much of what we do is trouble shooting. I love a challenge. I don't love a challenge it's like bring me bring tell me what I have to do and tell me how impossible it is and I'm going to love trying to find a way to do it. You know, I was doing an annual report in texas and the president this oil cut small oil company and I had my assistant in the lobby were bringing in all the gear and the secretary said, you've got five minutes to get this thing done and I ran upstairs up in the elevator up to his office and I walked in his office with the good thing about every president of every small company they all share one thing they all have to windows because they all have a corner office. Well, to me, two windows is a main line in an accent light, so I put him on his little, but on one corner of his desk, I rolled up a piece of paper on his desk putting his hand made him look smart, you know? And I had the accent lights separating his jacket. I got the shotgun four frames bam, bam, bam, bam, bam! I'm out here elevator I'm out and I'm down there in the elevator door opens my assistants dragging all the gear on. I'm like we're done it seems like what did you get way already down a job and the job is finished. We're going back to the studio and we left. We pulled it off and I love having to think like that. I love that's what this whole foundation gives to me sorry. Rest. Yeah. That's ok, just a camera in the chat room just says what does think like a photographer mean, I don't get it. What what sort of things you looking for when you're thinking is a photographer? What are the things that you're not paying? What I'm what I'm what I'm paying attention to? And I'm not sure how to define it other than to say don't always look for the obvious answer the obvious answer with trying to get that flat against the wall and having and to get rid of that that grady ation that great asian across the obvious answer is to get another life that's the obvious answer, the un obvious thing is, well, let's, just pull this out a flat line into it because not everybody has a second line, our third light, our fourth light. I have to make do sometimes when I don't I don't know how I'm going to pull this off I got a look at this job and think oh man, how can I do this? I don't have enough light well, you do if you know a fifty watt light bulb is very bright at four minutes, you know, out of one twenty fifth of a second, you know you'll never see it, but four minutes are eight seconds or whatever it might be it gets really bright, you know, if you're in somebody's home and that back wall back there is just going to dark, and you really want to brighten up that with warm ambience from their tungsten lamps, but you can't do that because you've got your modeling light on your flash and you got this light in the background and you're trying to figure out, how can I open up that background back there, turn off the modeling light on your main light, goto a half second and pull the trigger and all of a sudden the flash freezes your primary subject and the half second picks up all the elements in the background it's that kind of thinking? You just have to think when I say think like a photographer, I mean, don't always just go for the most obvious answer think think outside think a little bit differently you know, I used to love that old apple, that apple campaign think different I love that campaign because it really didn't make everything different, you know? So that's that's, my definition is just you have to think for not not always think for the obvious, and I think if I get editorialized for a second that's kind of the power of control that's exactly what we're talking about once you understand what your lights are doing once you understand how they're achieving the look they're achieving, then you can use them in that non obvious way if you're just using them in a way that's like, well, I looked out and I got a good shot because I put a bunch of lights there, you don't understand what you're doing that doesn't give you the acknowledge necessary toe work in those out of the ordinary situation, right? We had a job one time we had to photograph a seven foot bronze eagle, seven foot bronze eagle. This thing out on how much this thing weight, but it was huge, and the job called for a burst of color in the upper right corner and a burst of color in the lower left corner and on day struggling with trying to get this light down low enough and get the color right, and the only answer here was to get this bird upon a table and to do that, I couldn't do it in my studio, so we went to the local high school gymnasium went into the gym, hung we hung a background like that with a white seamless paper and dropped it all the way down took a six and a half foot plain old folding work table, and four of us picked this six foot seven foot bronze up, put it on the table, and then that gave us the ability to have a burst from down below at my level, from table level, right? And then I had that gave me the the answers I need because I thought, I can't do this here and pull the job off to the level I need to pull it off, and I told the plan, we're going to have to move this eagle he's like, ok, if you're sure clients will go with you, if you're if you have enough conviction and confidence in the job, they'll go with you on this stuff. I remember jonathan actually, in los angeles, restive soul last week, man actually photographed, uh, what's his name that wrote jurassic park, the big six foot eight guy great crying michael crichton. He photographed crichton for the back cover of the jacket for jurassic park and he knew they were going to go in the student of the shot and eleven o'clock at night actually had this great idea there was an old dinosaur playland kiddie land thing halfway between l a in vegas and it was dilapidated and condemned and broken and gone and all the dinosaurs were fade in the paint was gone and actually said I've got an idea I think I could make those dinosaurs look fabulous in silhouette it sunrise but that means I need to come pick you up at two thirty in the morning and you need to drive to the desert with me what do you think and crime went are you pretty confident we can do this and make this a winner and john says absolutely and he said come get me and he went with him and the shot is extraordinary you know but it's because he crying michael crime bought into what actually was selling and they said if you think we can do that shot great and that was thinking outside the box it was before digital he didn't want to dry I mean, you know, digitally now you could just drop that back in there and study won't agree skin of unity but john want to get it on film and he did so ok so lesson number one you want that grady and to go away then tipped us thinking background and that'll smooth at your grady so let me move this back where it was and we're going to try something different with it I like this background it's so it is so it's so neutral that the fun part of that it is uh it's got just enough texture toward gives me it interests me you know um can we turn turn that light off that background light you had turned that off completely and I just want to see how dark that background will go in this position if I put no light on it we've got an awful lot of ambience though so that might kill us a little bit but also let me see let me take my shutter speed a little bit let's try this and see what happens so I can't get it to go quite black but I can get it to go pretty dark by just trying to keep that keep that ambient light off of it on again it will give you a different look but what that does to me is once I have it that darker darker now I can introduce color to it and when I introduced color it takes on a whole new look and a whole new world and so what I'd like to do john let's go ahead and let's leave the background light right where it is let's turn it on and let's just let's put a primary color right here perfect perfect let's just put a in fact we'll start with that primary with this primary read the's gel packs these gel packs come in a little a little cellophane pouch and you can buy I think these air twenty eight thirty bucks or something here's here's the deal here's a fact for there's even a price on it so yeah this one is thirty bucks even and these were these really filters and they're just they're just sample twelve by twelve and there's all kinds of mean get muted colors you can get control colors this or vivid colors I think yeah this these air the vivid ones because I like these bright screaming vibrant colors so just drop that right over the top of that reflect your head and what is going to power that guy tell me what power output you're out there and we're gonna need to take that up because you know there were three seven your three seven so you're going to go all the way to the top here's the thing about jill's of primary density like that that that red will stop about two and a half stops of light so you got you got you got to do something you do some work to get that like to go through there and if you need to shoot a job at f sixteen f twenty two and still use those jails that's when you need the higher power output for your strokes yeah uh no are these like meters? Are they broad spectrum and that they are you know, it's not going tio change because of the red no won't make any difference whatsoever ok, another question is now starting to see uh black down in the bottom is that a sink problem? Could be I just jumped my probably as I just heard her speak but my center speed up and I can get away with a pretty fast shutter speed with low output light but when I've got fast output light, it goes fast a slower duration then it'll catch me so I probably read two hundred yeah, I'll go back down, I'll go back down thanks for the catch. Yeah that's what it was okay, so you got that on there let's talk let's take a reading so we get there and we might want to just for this program's, let me go ahead and power this down a little bit because I know we're gonna be a toward the edge. So just by by the simple element of of experience, I know that this is going to be a challenge for me too, to shoot in such a way that this is this was already up almost sixteen and I know I'm not going toe I don't wanna work that high, so empowering this down already and that's going to give me more flexibility on my on my red then I'll be able to go up and down with the red and again I'm gonna move this just a little bit can you step forward about a step maybe one more step great let's try that ok so I got paid on her four and a half okay so that's so far we're good we're minus wanna have still five six and four five, six and a half and I'm an eight so matt minus one half red right behind her head that's going to be good I think we're gonna like that so we try it all right let me pull back a little bit. Here we go. Okay, my dear. You ready? Are you having fun yet? This is this like she's just like you this is it. Is this the best it's going to get you turn? You're just a little right there. Great good. You'll see that read verse go off what shall even this is and look at this color bam ready holy toledo look at that color so you're seeing if you'll notice on the edge of her on the edge of her hair you'll see where it's coming around that top right corner part of that there you go part of that is coming from a little bit of bleed out the side of that there you go, john there you go so you'll learn to kind of watch for those little moments go ahead and power that down just a little bit I think it's a little five point seven what do you want? Uh take it down to just take the giver of the seventeenth there you go perfect let's do this again there you look great right there don't move don't move perfect perfect! Now we're dead on and you'll see you won't see that flare because we just had john the gobo the human gobo so here's my point my point is when you get a denny's catalog and everything comes in four hundred colors get neutral colors because neutral colors can be made to go to dark once they're made to go dark then you can introduce whatever color you want I could match almost any color now the white house was like about them or all the designs and the shapes for me that's what I'm after is the designs of shapes colors a great to that midnight somewhere I use it because of the colors but the rest I like this neutral look because then I can create whatever I want with that color that just gives us they just gives us lots and lots of opportunities here so now let's take that now let's do it let's just put the blue and oh yeah the primary blue if they got primary blue next one we want to put him we're gonna put a primary blew in and not making the adjustment the primary blue if done correctly if you if you start to think about it this way before I can introduce color, I'm going to make sure there's no contamination on that background from anywhere else in the studio today it's a little more life than I would want but I'm not going to go to the trouble of having the crew kill all the overheads but but what I would do is make sure that that appears as pure black with my main light on with my accent lights on with all the lights on that I'm working with I would make sure with everything on that that background appears black then I would turn on my color because when you do that then you don't get any pastel knows past still here's a new word how about past velocity? You'll get no past philosophy but you'll get true one hundred percent return of color as long as that goes black first make sense so now that did you get reading ok let's see how close are that red and the primary blue they do stop a lot of light this goes a half stop darker oh perfect let's leave it just like that here's what I know I know that read I like red if red is zero or plus one so whatever I'm shooting it and I like the blue of the blue a zero or a minus one from whatever I'm shooting it well right outside of minus half it's going to be great the blue will knock the black off your teeth. It will be a vibrating blew it will be a vibrating blue. Ok, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Look at this girl. Did you see that? Ready? Sago, quit blowing screen. There you go. Okay, now take that power down. One full stop let's do one more just exactly the same. Here we go. Same shot. Here we go. Great, good, good, good, good. And I just watched the background come down a little bit and it's just a little bit more rich here's the thing about the color wavelength and we talked about this I hit on the color wavelength briefly the color wavelength of the red color wavelength is really long if I go read if I started opening up that background just look at that that's good that you can show me that stinking history and that's. Good thanks, mike. So here's. The thing about here's the thing about red if I opened up my background color with red and start powering the red up and up and up and up I can go so far I mean you can go a long way with red and not see subtle changes because the wavelength of red is so long but with blue you go plus a stop minus two minus two two plus two you see big changes with the red you see subtle changes because the difference in their couple colored wavelengths that makes sense okay tony quick, quick question could you use this for creating your own green screen yeah but not as effectively okay, you can but I don't wanna sure how effective it would be okay thank you. Yeah um I think you would the problem with it is you have to be really be careful on any contamination okay and and you could probably do it jim but you really are gonna have to work pretty hard doing it and it's going to hard to repeat it every single time and okay by green screen way got primary green jails also yeah and then you get into the lighter tones let's put it simply get that do have a screaming yellow let's put the yellow up and then we're going to power back down minus two stops because that the yellow beats up nothing and that's the thing is you you'll see how those jails work now here's a fun thing that I do it on my shoots a lot I'll put those jails and I'll take him over a plexiglass mirror I use mirrors a lot for reflecting light and bouncing line doing special effects and I'll take the jails over a plexiglass but here's, the trick that nobody can kind of figure out whatever the density is of the gel is doubled when you put it over a mirror because it goes through, hits the reflective surface and comes back out again. So the gel is doubled in its thickness on a piece of marriage surface that's a guy that has screwed up a few pictures that's telling you this. Okay. All right, you got me there, it's reading for even right now, treating four even and I'm shooting a day so it's an a minus two yellow that going to be interesting? Let's, take a look. Here we go, that's it yeah, you're gonna need to power it up more that's that's a little little dead part of plus two way and make sure you're not feathering the right end yeah, there you go. Okay, here we go. Here we go. Who? That's. Good. I like that. Look at this. Next one. This is fun starting to get fun now, but so you can. You start to see how this works again, it's it's most effective on a neutral sort of a background once it's neutral, then you khun and these covers, but again, you've got to take the brightness level has to be dropped till that background is almost black before you introduce the cartoon. Yeah, tony, if we were to turn the background light a little bit to the left here we created, radiant across the surface. We're going to the next. Totally agree. You can also were also show you how to reverse does well, you got to have a burst of code that goes, person falls, often dark.