What the Client Wants: Working with People
Now let's talk about working with people you know and understanding what the client wants a swell you know? So this is really a bottle for working day for a wedding because they you know often you know there's also multiple clients and also multiple different people that we're going to work with to make sure that we got the results I mean, one of the big things to keep in mind is that he, uh professional photographers every image you put out there you're advertising you know, your advertising what you're doing and in fact what you're doing is that you're you're saying that is a promise to that potential client is what you're going to deliver so if you've got a client that has hired you as a photographer there really expecting you to deliver what you're advertising promises and it's important to think about that because often you know you'll have like ideas and you think I did this shoot and you know, it might have been like a fashion shoot or something like that and you're advertising ...
those images you know, you got to make sure that you can actually deliver that on a wedding day so you gotta make sure that your advertising is very honest now one of the things that we do at the studio is that we're very particular about what images go on our blawg what he would just go on our website and you know and then when you got time in the brakes you know, go and have a look because those images are going to attract like minded clients that we want at the studio you know, to contact us and they're the weddings that we want to photograph a cz well because you know what it is that we know that we can deliver upon it, you know, early on you know, we we received lots of accolades and awards you know, for our wedding photography and our client's expectations you know what from here to there, you know, and I started getting a lot more nervous going a weddings because I'm thinking, god, how am I going to live up to these expectations, you know? And so what was really, really important is that, like, I I forgot about that and remembered, you know what? We've put these images out that we love to capture and we think that's really important on a wedding day to be able to produce and the people are connecting to those images. So as long as I'm doing exactly what I promise and deliver upon what I advertise, then I'm ok and, you know, what's the best part is that a lot of the images that I show you today there's clients and we never expected those images or those moments toe actually ever happen anyway and so what's great is that not only do I meet those expectations but often totally excel them you know it just you know and that's such a rewarding experience because in the clients are even more wild and in business that's what we're gonna do we could always have that wow factor you know and that's why I was always trying to deliver you know and keep in mind is that you know their client has an invested interest you know, you can't get this wrong remember like I said earlier, you know, in the previous session you know that you got one chance at it and you're gonna make it the best that you can do so let's go in and just talk a little bit about you know, the one I won you know, go back to basics you know I mean, even if you know you were an experience photographer you know it's always going back to basics you know, in fact when you know like the whole financial crisis was happening a few years ago and you know in continues to do there's lots of challenges and that is that what we decided to do is that let's go back and what to the bare basics and what we knew worked and where I would try nate things is that we went back and re land what we already knew and what we did well and we just made it even better again and so it's always good to be out of think about that go back to basics all right? So let's go into lesson one you know and that there's more than one client it's important to know that like I was talking in the lots of that that you've got to communities and that make up a lot of people that effect and are very important to the bride and groom. So sometimes we think like our client is the broad and green and they certainly are there they are the most important but everyone that attends to that wedding is a client as well and on a side note against our potential clients some of them as well like potential future clients but but even like we can explain that even fervor you know you've got like the wedding planners you know, the flores you know, everyone that has an investment in me you know, in that wedding is also a client, you know? And you got to keep that in mind. And so you also should be very respectful that and have that understanding and also the client has invested in those people as well to do the best that I do and, you know, sometimes like, you know, like some planners and, you know, some brides goto a great deal of effort to have the perfect wedding you know and people are going way beyond what they normally do and if I was a planner, I want to know that the photographer is there with their best interests at heart and knows that they're going to document the wedding as well and that you're able to then provide them images so they can show cast showcase their work now we know primarily for the plainer you wanna mean and the planet also knows that they know that we're there for the bride and groom but as a photographer we need to know that we don't just have one client okay, so let's even think so this is like, you know, when a beautiful couple going to capture, you know, like these great relationships but this is what I want to capture as well is you know, these amazing communities coming together, you know, and this is both sides of the family and I just love this image, you know, and it's because it's got everyone that was important, you know is that linda was from germany and how the whole family came over from germany and its wedding was in the adelaide hills in australia a great one district of australia if you ever down there and one of the but you know, like his side of the family steve was from islands and so a lot of his family flew down as well you know, so it's keeping that in mind that sometimes that these people haven't seen each other for so long and also that these chief family's air uniting together there is a special bond between those families now and it's our responsibility to think of that every one of those as a client no steve neath as the two little girls end up taking all these amazing shots you know, off these girls on dh it just so happened really what happened is that their parents are now client as well because they not only you know, I loved you know the images of his brother and sister in law the sister in law and the wedding itself but then we've documented those cci little girls a very important like like I got nieces you know and when like, you know, I've heard stories about you know, especially from other brides and as soon as they announced, you know, if they've got a nice they're coming up to him and say I've got to be a flower go this is like a little girl's dream, you know? I mean and so we're going to realize that and understand that and it gives us opportunities, you know, and this is what's great is that weakened just when we're getting to know this and you know and this is what all the preparation is about we just add that to the sheet list okay those little girls you know they're just being added every one of these people were just being added to the shoot list so throughout the day you know I also try to capture a photo journalistic moment off every one of those like a photo journalistic portrait you know and sometimes I've come up to me and say how could you take a photo you know on dh were there it's like you know it's so funny you know I will to a wedding in bali took a photographer along a local photographer is great and you know he saw me taking the family fighters and he said what are you doing? You know don't you have an assistant to take the family photo ops and then what do you mean yes I just thought you'd be too much of a star to take family photos kidding you know this is about personal relationships you know, this is about connecting with people you know? Of course I'm going to take the family photos and if someone asked me and drags me over goes I'll come and take this photo I'm going to go and take it you know but if something really is more important I say hey look, I will can you give me two minutes I just wanted to get that shot first and they understand I'm very respectful you know and that's where it's important to know that everyone there is a client as well you know and sort of thinking about things differently I just love this image now this was a couple of those signing the register at the time you know and but what was great is that there were two separate families before this day and they both had kids and these are the kids and this for me represented that family more so you know, then signing the document you know, the yearning and this family wasn't just part of that document was the joining of these kids and then that's what I felt when I was compelled to take this image and saw that moment so we go to identify opportunities and like I said about you know, look at this like think of like all the planning that went in to have the wedding looking that way such an investment interests you know, from angie you know, the bride to be to do that but then executed by many people to be out of do that and everyone that was involved in that wedding this image becomes so important to them so don't discount that details are important because this is angels life this is what she does as a career, you know? And so there was a personal attachment to that image and so we're gonna understand that and not just sort of thing details are not important now I think for a journalistic moments are far more important than details now if at the moment if your skill level you feel like that you cannot deliver by like that you cannot be concentrating on a you know, a photo journalistic moment or a portrait or something like that take a second photographer along that only just thinks about details that winning that I showed you and will continue to show you you know, from italy I was the only photographer there I've never had an assistant no one helping me with my equipment on my bags no one helping with the details I multi task and I do it all you know and I've schooled myself up to able myself to do that you know and I love it you know, like and I just sort of like I feel like then you know no one's there looking at what I'm doing and you know sometimes like you felt someone was there like I feel like maybe they're judging me or maybe I shouldn't be on that angle and all that and even though they wouldn't be thinking that I guess because I could be insecure you know I mean I'm just human I'm just natural so I often prefer to photograph a wedding by myself because I know that I can see that moment and identify with it so is no problem having a second photographer there is weddings that I do where I do have a second photographer and I need it in a specific reason it's and sometimes I'll say will you go do the details but you know often too I just won't rely upon them just to do all the details I'll still go capture some because they don't have my eye you know? I mean I have complete confidence in myself and so I make sure I still go do something you know? I mean because then least I know that I've got it okay all right? So let's think about like lesson number two don't judge declined by the cover and remember by a client everyone at the wedding is off client so again like, you know, like don't judge a videographer and how they're acting union mean pushed through our or make conversation to make a difference and change that you know, no one of the very early weddings that I went I got to the door and knocked on the door the father answers the door any grants at me you know, like and I was pretty in experience that point in time and I walk to the doors of confidence and I've never been in this situation before, you know, I was scared I was get immediately and intimidated by this guy you know, domain and like I thought I'll go today is going to and I started doing auto you know, she chad and was trying everything to break the ice and nothing was happening it was like man like going and I just walked out into another room and I was scared you know mean anyway I went about like going and then photographing what I do and you know and then he walks out his or addressed his daughter walks out exactly the same time and I mean photo journalistic mind and a capture this moment he just burst into tears here I had a pre perceived idea of who this guy wass I thought I knew that you know, he was a high level manager you know had a lot of responsibility, you know? And I just thought maybe that's a few years is a big business person but at heart he was just a soft as any of you, you know? And I thought about it you know and I catch of this sequence of shots you know, like with his daughter and I hopped in the car going to the church and I thought about it because this moment really moved me because and it really in some ways unsettlement because there was something new and something that I never experienced before and and naturally I felt like maybe I did something wrong maybe there's something in the prep that I didn't teo you know because when I walk into a room often the bride will come up and hug me and go hello you know, and say hello and you know it signifies like silently, you know subconsciously to everyone else that marcus is ok and what I found is I thought about saying my car and thought that my son jackson my first son was six months six months old at the time and I remembered how much like just how much he's changed my world how amazing this little boy was here six months old and and I'm thinking about all that love and like when you have a kid like you know something you have kids here it's instant this incredible love straight off the bat and then I thought about him for a second well, for a long day and I thought, here is his daughter thirty years of age every day thinking about this moment that he's gonna walk her down the aisle in some way saying goodbye you know, to her and that's when I hit me that was what I experienced I experienced a man that has this immense love that he did not a handle this situation it was so overwhelming that he wasn't himself and that then he was so moved that he disperse it into tears and he really showed who iwas and it's another part of weddings that I just absolutely love is that you could have like that like the biggest man you know you like but I have this my softest hearts you know and that's what I love that you get to see and then get to capture you know those incredible moments so another thing is showing we're in fact you know, going to be respectful at every wedding off everyone you know are really at the studio who's amazing photographer and second shot foot with me for so many years and now she's doing her own weddings with in the studio and were just traveling and we see guys are did this got to the church and the priest was horrible to me why? And she goes, why is the precise horrible to me every wedding I've done and I said to her you think about it is that often you walk into a church and you're on their grounds you don't go up and say hello you don't respect the environment that you're in and you moving you ordering people around and telling him people to do this and that and then you leave you know what respect of you showing for the environment and not that she's like that? I'm not saying that I'm just giving you an example and I said this is what you know a lot of praise tell me is that they experience I get photographers ian to their church somewhere that they have dedicated their entire life too and those people those photographers just don't respect where they are don't even come up and say alive so what I do is I hand make sure that I do do that like I go up you know, when I arrived to the church and say hello and I comment on something that I believe in I'll say oh, this is beautiful what a beautiful church you've got you know what a great place you don't go you know, like what a great place to work you know, because I didn't see it that way but you complimented you know in a way that they're going to understand there has been times like, you know, like clients have come up to me you know, in the pre planning said hey, look, I don't even think you can photograph in the church you know, because the priest said and so you know, I have a plan, okay? I would just do what I do normally a soon as I arrive they go in there and I went into the vest very and said, wow, I like, you know, do you mind if I take your photo? This is like, like amazing and so I took this priest portrait and chad it going for ages and and all that and then he comes out and goes, you know, I don't only do this, but if you promise just a stay in that pew there you khun you can photograph and you know, that thing taking charge having respect and looking at what potentially could have been a problem and changing that completely around makes a difference because then I could do what I do best and what I need to deliver upon for my client and that's the most important thing so whatever I'm going to do to do that they have to be genuine that is so important a cz well but it is you walk in you know, to a house you know let people know who you are remember I'm always I'm not still a little bit introverted and so you know, like it takes a lot for me to do that but I know we've weddings that I've got to come out of my shell and be sometimes someone I'm not you know, one of the times on the day like I just absolutely don't enjoy always say I hate it but I don't enjoy is if I ever got to do a big group shot you know I feel like a big deal you know I got to get up there because to get a really really great group shot then you gotta like, make a fool of yourself serious you mean like and here I am sure you know I'm going to do it but you know what? I just sort of man up just getting there and do it and just get the shop do what I have to get that shot so, like nothing's beyond me, you know, like, you know, like, I'm not precious enough, like thing I should get someone else to do that, you know, I'm going to do the family shots and it's, like, when I walked into this house one day, you know, early on, and I was immediately in all of this that I got talking to him, and he had just the most beautiful salt like, and I just was compelled to take a portrait and knowing that this couple and a bit about them and knowing carrying the bride is that I knew when I took a portrait, you know, off this father that not only his daughter, but also his wife had to be in the shot because it it really spoke volumes, and so that I took this image, I already thought about where I wanted to place him and that's how I move the chair to exactly day. I mean, the flowers just the cross I spoke to karen, and I said, you know what? When you just take your mom like into the kitchen because this isn't a mirror it's actually like a little surgery into the kitchen, I said, why don't you just go talk to mom, just chatto, so that happened on, actually and because I was gentle I said hey you know and he actually posed himself and did that with his hands but I pre thought about this shot and what was important because to do a true portrait of this man having the most to people that are important in his life had to be in that image because it was a reflection of his life and that's way I guess like you know it is like a mirror it's a mirror of what the most important thing in his life and so when we're on the fly and we could be starting to think about how all these elements come together this is how images like this come about is because we're listening we're watching we're understanding was showing respect for the environment that we're in or with the goal to capture an amazing shot it's also here you know like here these guys are up on a cliff right there on a cliff ice man like they've got to trust me you know and so to do that like you know I have literally got to go up with them and I also pre checked the location to make sure it's safe so when you're actually up there you know is this huge area you're not going to feel like you know also gotta check with the couple that they're happy to do that often it's the couple saying man, we want something like this or this you know, can we do that now so yeah, I'll think of something and so you know, I'll preconceived an idea and and in fact pre conceiving an idea this is a shotgun in bali and I pre conceived this idea from brisbane, you know is I've been to bali a few times and I know these rocky outcrops and I've thought of a location in fact I don't know if you got the camera I actually I thought of this location for this couple initially because this is pertaining batang beach it's a famous surfing break had many great times there were friends and family just, you know, sitting on that beach whenever I get a chance which is how they ever to go on holidays and and but that was the shot I was thinking off this shot end up happening I think tees later you know, but this shot I thought, you know, if I've got her up there if she's wearing a veil or not I need a huge veil to pull this shot off and it's hard to tell in this shot but others you see the vow and its huge long and luckily I had a designer friend um who just did up a valve for may and I took this huge like veil like you no longer than this room you know like to bali with may just to get one shot and that's what I'll do for my clients is that you know, this is like a real creative portrait or editorial image to pull that together, but coming back to about like trust and respect to be had to do that shot is that I need there's a lot of work on that side of things to be out of pull that shot off a swell so there's many elements to an image when you break it down, you'll see images on our website and a blogger well, how did you do that? And hopefully me giving you an idea of the one o one and going back to basics is how we get these shots started it's always starting somewhere and it in a builds as well. So let's talk about like asking questions like listen for learning about the individual you know, this is really in for important this is where they're planning packed really comes into its I'm now from the very first find core skype call that you get is that people going to be telling you little bits of information and they may not make sense straight away but it's important to even jot them down or just keep them in your memory bank about this couple and often I'll just drop them down you know, it might be a side comment and say, you know, like we really love the shots that you've got with grand parents and so what I'll do is that I'll note that and it may be because the grandparents and they want them captured on their wedding day you know, other times it could be like a little bit of information about their partners and I'll tell you a couple you know instance since one is like funeral had sadly told me that my father passed away you know, years earlier but she said, you know what? My brother is gonna walk me down the aisle and this is so important to me and because I've lost my father and I could understand how important that wass you know, because there's no nothing that you can replace that but there's something that can happen that will help you know and for her brother to step in and and take a father's place and walking down the aisle it's a pretty amazing thing pretty amazing, you know, in many levels just from, you know, the brothers perspectivas well little and hers and then also the mom and so when fiona was getting ready, I just knew like, you know, I knew that story knew there was a dynamic there and so when she came in and a brother walked in she was just so overcome with emotion because it was a boy I reminder that her father wasn't there on the day but also this beautiful joy in this image is, well, that she is also excited that her brother is gonna walk her down the aisle and that's what I love about capturing these moments and capturing these shots, and I just love the face, you know, the look on her mom's face behind us. Well, you know, so sometimes when you see an image on our blawg, you know or a website, I want you to know that there is a story behind every one of those images, same with few images as well and that's, where the the images that I'd love you to be using on your website and blawg, facebook and twitter and instagram is that, you know the story don't worry about like what other photographers they're going to think, anything you should be caring about is what your clients think and how important that this image is for your client and that's what I believe, you know, photography is about especially wedding photography. I love this moment, this mormon, everything is a picture of a hand, but it's so much more than that if you knew the vietnamese culture, you know, with the whole chinese tea ceremony and there's, very different things in different parts of different regions throughout asia and how things are done, and as a photographer, we need to learn that you know and like, I just love photographing tea ceremony is it's it's another incredible, you know moment that happens, you know, in the wedding ritual between communities again and individuals, this is one of those mind it's so when the groom arrives, what's incredible is that the mother hands over her daughter's hand to the green think about that for a moment happens in a split second, you know, mom walks, however, hands it over, but think about that think about it come from the mother's perspective she's handing her daughter to the man that's going to look after her or be with for the rest of her life that's a split second, you know it, sometimes we don't think of it that way. We think of these moments we just think that happened, you know? And sometimes if we missed him on it doesn't matter, it probably wasn't important, but it isthe every important moment needs to be captured and that's our responsibility as a photographer that we've really got to do and understand that's all saying earlier is that I'm a soccer mom that learned photography and made a crew out of it because I'm a good passion, but the biggest thing that I know is that I have a responsibility to be there and that I've only got one chance at it and if I don't understand that responsibility then I dying to say to be at that wedding photographing that day and that's one thing if you anyone here watching this cause takes home with them is understand and if you don't feel that passion if you don't feel like you could do it that's like a choose something else to photograph that's what I love about photography there's so many things you know and you know there's so many things have to like landscapes commercial photography but the funny thing is to be a great wedding photographer you have to be all of those you know you're gonna be a great commercial photographer to be a great wedding photographer you know you could be a fashion photographer you know like you know like me and adam we get asked by some of the top restaurants in australia to come in and photograph their restaurants and they may news and the shifts because I see our wedding work and they see the feeling in it or they see the details and how where we do it and then we actually pick up of a jobs because I would love it you know we'll love fade you know so this is ahh person in matthew's wedding so this is a pureness sister so with the grandmother necessarily a grandmother wasn't well enough to travel to italy to be at the wedding but this is why fiona and richie loved to have me at their day because I knew that I was going to capture all the special people there especially richie's granddad he was like just this amazing man and is richie's hero you know in so many ways you know and that's what it means to be showing those images to be catching those images you know sharing those with like minded people so they're going to come to you and because remember you know the way you photograph it is an extension of who you are it's who you are it you know and no one can be just you so the way you see the world is going to be attractive to someone else getting married and then you know, just go to your website and go you know what? I want angie to photograph my wedding because she's got something incredible she's got this beautiful heart I can tell in the way that she like then can express that at my wedding and captured those moments and that's what it's about so listen number five is listening and watching like you know they love their comment like that came through is that you know, laughed our run to it you know it's so true so listening is so important in many ways so like I said from the very first email the very first phone call the skype core whenever there in the studio you need to be listening and not just from the broad and cream as soon as you've got other voices to listen to might be the mom and might be the data or even a friend they may say something very important and it's sort of like you know you just put it in your memory bank where you jot it down and what happens is that it's like joining the dogs and then you go at the end uh now I know now I know what to capture now I know how to do this, you know, I mean and it just really enable teo teo help you do that. So one really cool things sometimes I'm letting on these secrets you know and these air you know, from the groom or the bride oh, you know, the bomb and you know, and often you know, like, you know, like it means that it's opportunity made photograph other times you know, it's totally floored me you know, like the feedback that I've got but but this one time you know how it you know, like vivian went up to the to the bathroom and we're just in the studio doing the final meeting before the wedding day he gets a marcus is great she's gone I can tell you something vivian grew up in career and moved to a strategy which was twelve years old and then what happened? Wass is that she's kept in contact with all her you know, friends originally but as pain powers and then email developed and you know through email and phone calls and things like that what she doesn't know is that these friends are coming to the wedding and she doesn't know they're going to surprise up you know, she hadn't seen them like in twenty years you know it just incredible and sarin was privileged to that and so when this happened I was prepared you know, like I understood that this opportunity may happen and so and this is even before the ceremony's starting you know and she did it's made a bee line and this is the sequence that I was able to capture and how important it was for vivian imagine that not seeing friends for like twenty years and in a surprising so what if I didn't understand that and I was doing details or doing something like that and I missed all that could you imagine said jim now know that it's sort of like a jigsaw puzzle wedding photography you gotta pull it together and you got to pull it together then and there all the time but we've a jigsaw puzzle you need the instructions and you need the pieces to put together and you can do magic you know it is like I said it's always something happening and you have to be prepared for it this is rene and she's just gorgeous, you know? And uh rene told me at the studio and she said, look, you know, I've got this uh, grandma that I just absolutely love can you please make sure that you do a portrait of her she's just means the world to me, you know? And I think perfectly of course you know, and she explained why to me and I won't go into details but she explained why that was important and I got it I really understood as you know we'll tell you because she said, like the reason why was because she said that she grew up for a big portion of the life of a grandmother rather than a mother and reflecting on my own personal experiences I got it, I understood it, you know, there was a pointing in my brother's life what way before that I was around that he left lived with my grandparents and didn't live with his mom and dad why, you know, it doesn't matter, but the thing wass is that I could understand why rene was telling me this and how significant her grandma wass so I knew that I really should be out of take a portrait now when I got there on the day you know, her grandma was typical in some ways like pulled me aside and started chatting like, you know, some grandma's do and it got to the parting should I probably be somewhere you know, photographing but I didn't I listened, you know, I was patient, I was calm, I was watching and listening and knew and felt that this was important she then said something a couple little bits of information she said that compa leave her name has chosen my wedding anniversary to get married on and then she said or sigh, I can't believe and I reflect back now on my own wedding day, you know, fifty years earlier and then I think that I what's that little girl grow up in my wardrobe, you know, playing barbie dolls, and here it is her wedding day, so I took the time to listen then all of a sudden, these light bulbs like started going off on flashing and and I thought, I've gotto take this shot. So the previous one wass the portrait off renee in that wardrobe where she played barbie dolls as she grew up, probably thinking one day I'm going to get married, but then I took this shot and I knew taking a portrait of the grandma that rene really wanted me to do that this would now have special meeting is because renee is playing in that room with grandma grew, you know, watched her play with a barbie dolls but also now now this is also a portrait for the grandmother because she can reflect back fifty years earlier to her wedding day so sitting there is a reflection of her as a young woman and now she can actually see this amazing community that she's the matriarch full so this is how powerful wedding images can be and how important they can be and it's all over again about joining the dots and all this came about by just listening watching understanding and wanting to create something memorable for your customer so watch there's lots of clues there there you know I mean you know like sometimes like you know I get to travel sometimes you know you know, with my photography and I was in russia and we're talking to some photographers and they said you know what we see all these a motive moments that you capture but just so you know we're in russia and that these moments just happen you know and I just hear that continually it in different parts of the world you know and and I got a kidding they're here you just gotta look for them sometimes it's so subtle just a little bit like you know like I said about my you know, my granddad touching the side of my my brother's arm and just giving in that little nod you know is that you go to the arrivals are at horror at any airport and you watch you watch people get off, come out through customs little kids will run up to their dads moms will you know come and give the biggest hug and start crying if they haven't seen this son for five years and when I arrived in russia that's what I observed I must go airport exactly that same thing mom's hugging sons that were forty, fifty years old little old ladies doing little kids running up it is sometimes that's really subtle but it's always there and at wedding there's always a treasure tribe of about things so sometimes that we can watch right and it's body language some of things that I mentioned before other times it's like a massage you know it's like a bull's eye you know, like anyone's wearing a massage you know this sucker's cost money, you know they're going to give them to people that count and I really important so they're bull's eye for your photography you know they kicked them. You know what? I may make sure that you shoot that person because they're important says all these little signals that you can pick up by watching body language and also asked the brown and green to introduce you to keep people you know and say look, you know, like and it could be subtle you always talked about it, but if you get introduced it's just like a little signal that you might say ok, like, you know, like this person's important, I know, and they're not physically saying that it's just sort of something subtle that you've worked out with a couple so there's like all these little things, so definitely like plant to see, you know, it helps to build trust, you know, and set expectations, this is what's really important is that you need to understand what the client is expecting as well. So one of the things that like I'll do is that I'll ask my couples what, as soon as they book me and I say, you know what we don't want you to do just over the course of might be, you know, twelve months, six months or eighteen months before the wedding day, I said just now and again, just get on the block just right click, copy them into folders I want to know images that we really love, you know, I also want to know images that you don't really like, you know, also when another folder of the processes that you like so the client is educating me on what's important to them, and I'll see a theme like of people and the furrow journalistic, you know, moments, and it indicates, like, where, you know, like it might have grand parents at the day and I'm looking at the timing, shooting the planning shouldn't noted that, you know, they mentioned grandparent's, I'm looking at the images that they're selected, and they're saying, and is all these grandparents shots there? So what should I do? Photographed the grandparent's be very conscious about that on the day, you know, and that's just one aspect, you know, there's so much to it and so much information that you can get and understand, and this is our responsibility about doing all this research, so when you think I'm just talking about research and let's talk a little bit about timing, is that so I did that wedding in italy, and I was on the ground on the day photographing eighteen hours continuous, so certainly I gotta charge for that, but I gotta charge for all my preparation time as well. How often like when we're thinking about, you know, pricing for our studios that we forget about that important aspect, plus many other aspects we probably forget sometimes we think, well, maybe we need to just charge for the day we died, we need to charge for that preparation time because we need to be putting their preparation time in to make it matter to make it count, you know, to be out, to do our job the best that we can you know you need to be out educate that back to the client you tell them you know look, I'm gonna probably spent and answer ten hours prepping for what your wedding, so I do it right because you know, I write that I'm gonna get one chance out of hay you're telling them you're educating them, you're letting them know you know otherwise couple may also think he just turned up on the day, so make sure you let them know that what you're doing all right let's start there was a question from garrett l and I think b y had had the same question in the in the chat room and people are asking when learning about the couple is there such a thing as too many questions if you have a cross the line by asking too many or certain type of question and how do you about how do you know that balance you're going to think about? One of the lucky things were we've got is that, you know, we weddings people are booking in advance, you know, sometimes it may be just a six weeks or it may be, you know, twelve months but we can actually scheduling think about when we should be talking to that klein and when to get the information that we need so it's just little by little and a lot of the things I just gonna be offshoots it's like little nuggets little offshoots that they say and you just gotta be identified that you know I mean so yeah, you're not really compounding them it's not like an interview, you know you're going to say yes so you know, like you got you grandparent's you know, are they still around and things like that you're not doing that like you just sort of like just engaging in conversation getting them to talk about themselves and in fact, that's what we have in like in our preparation pack is like, you know, ideas of when you can actually ask questions and when and then how to correlate all those answers together to give you like the brew the blueprint for you to really go out and create and capture a successful waiting as well, it sounds like you are a super intuitive person and that so much of what you're saying is just being aware awareness and and listening versus forcing out of people and like I said, like I only do it at weddings I do not do it at home, I getting all sorts of trouble, you think like I should see something coming and I just literally done like, you know, but we weddings this is like my passion and just but that might I just want to elaborate a little bit further, maybe you could give some of those examples and do you even though you're talking about what's in your packet but do you keep notes do you have like a daddy how do you manage that? Yeah you know what even one other thing that we do is like you know um is get like a family tree happening from the client you know, like you know a little picture you know mean off here's to you at the wedding in the cup a couple just fill it out you know, just put that picture in and then just write out who's coming and you know in an autumn asking questions right? Especially the final interview about their parents because often you know you've got to be very careful is that they might be separated or you know they may have a deceased parent and things like that could you imagine like on a wedding day you know, in the groom's father's deceased and then you went up and said, hey let's get a shot with your dad now oh my god could you imagine the pain all of a sudden you just reminded him that he's not there and it's going to make him feel uncomfortable and you just also lost all respect as well. So these sort of questions you do need tonight you need to know and an often I'll talk to the to the couple and say sometimes we got to do politically correct images because I'll say, you know, like and go through and say, you know, look, we've got my brother he's married, has been married for thirty years, got three kids, but my other brother, you know, he's, just seeing, you know, another woman, you know, she may not be around for a long and like because like, you just dress for women, you don't mean and then, like, they're just talking like that and I'm just not prejudging or anything like that, you know, what I say is that, hey, you know what we should do? We should do a shot without her and we've had so it makes him feel that she's involved and that, you know, like, and because she may end up becoming part of the family, you know, she may only be around for three more weeks, you know, like, I'm not prejudging, you know, like, bad we've got it covered and we make everyone in that family feel special so the brother then doesn't feel uncomfortable that we didn't take a photo and it's not causing any rifts in the family or anything like that, so understanding and prepping and doing all that it is so important, yeah, so studio impressions, your your your studio fifty two weddings I know you could have been there for every consultation um how do you how do you capture that information and then how do you ingest it? Take it in quickly before you get to the next weather no, you know what? Like I am there for every fifty two consuls off you know I mean, sometimes they go like they're on scott you know, because like we've got lots of international clients you know? So I'm stopping them you know? I mean, I have my like scott you know and they were chatting, you know, I mean, we got clients that follow us on our facebook business page they see us they will make a comment about another wedding and I know then like to just put that aside and go you know what she made their comments she'd love that that was important to her, you know? I mean, so every thing is important, you know, like yeah for me like my my clients and everything and I can't do my job without them and without their help and without their respect and understanding of what I need tonight, you know? I mean, so I let them know if I'm working with a planner, I let the plan and know that I need to have consultation with the couple and for this reason fortunately the couple's already know that because they're hiring me because my images are very motive, you know, very personal is those people are like minded and see that what's that's great you know I mean so I never having difficult clients because they like they really just like me you know I mean the very human very you know just normal yeah. You know like about planting the seed and educating the client was you know, dug a great client you know, before I photographed his wedding I would do commercial work for him you know, every year I would do like a big group shot off his work colleagues and he came to me because he saw what I did and he always wanted something different and so that's what I would do every ran every christmas time would do a group shot you know, remember I don't really love group shots but I did it you know I mean and I really enjoyed doing and so I got to know dog over many years then he got engaged unfortunately, you know, he hired me as this photographer and I felt blessed, you know? And so I had a great opportunity and he came to me though he said, you know what we've been doing these group shots I want something special for my group shot at my wedding so this was his thing he was really, really important and so I thought about direct my brain and I designed a shot for him so this is that shot his community their community all in this one shot now I knew I had to be special it's stage I would love to say this is for the journalistic it's not you know it's sort of like find creative you know it's a portrait but what I did I just got them running down the stairs just pretending like they're being married which they were you know, so there's no pretending about it but they just have to do it a couple times, you know? But I had to beg borrow and steal about sixty grand's with lodging and camera equipment from friends and people I knew what I had at the studio and all that to this shot, so because I planted people with cameras. So when you go into this image really large everyone nearly everyone's about cameras as flashes all the flashes of being remote triggered. Then I got a huge private a light at the front on the street toe like the front part and the couple. So this is why you see all these shadows and over things going on I deliver it I delivered on that brief he loves his shot and that's the idea is that we've got to go beyond what our clients are expecting and deliver and by planting the seed educating and understanding that all comes about another one was like you know about educating is that this is a beautiful place. This is where they got married. Her dad actually owns this property in bar on day one of my most favorite places around the world you know, and it's in that two hours from from brisbane and that was so looking forward to getting in the base their real beach people and I said, you know what? I don't know I know I know we can get something done of the base but I just have this feeling I just love to do a shot of you here you know, because they were really wanting to rush off and I said now it's just way so I saw these clouds starting to happen you know, need just something might happen but also at the back of my mind I'm thinking this is her parents property this is a personal connection here and I just said when you just go for a walk all of a sudden these rays of light come together, you know, and it just all came together like that, you know, I took a chance and they just love this shot so I also added to the day this was a great experience for about ten minutes they were alone just walking in that these fields and got a serious of images and this is just one of them and also we got to the beach and we were able to get exactly what they want and now I delivered something that they weren't expecting a question on that because we kind of go back and forth with this do you so with this situation you know, they were kind of wanting to go to the beach and you re directed and said, well, let's do this because there's a theory you know that if the bride wants to go to the beach you just like it's her day you follow through or do you just know you just you ask enough questions to get to know the client well enough that you could say well, do this for me definitely but I'm explaining why, you know I'm saying, you know, twenty and like you know, look, I've got something feeling about these clouds but you know, this is a beautiful property of your dad's you know and like and then she started going yeah, you know, like come here when we were kids and like play all the time and I said, you know, I think that big knives just they have some memories here, you know? And so I'm explaining to her, you know, like why I'm thinking what I'm thinking I'm never ever going to tell someone you never tell, you know like by houston you can softly direct and and guide people you know and if she says no, then it's no you know there's been times where you know, like I've got nice and I go ok, you know I understand and hopefully I don't I don't get knives very often because I've worked that out what to ask him what not to ask because if it'll the preparation that we've done anyway, you know, so in the preparation I'm asking them you know, are you happy to walk in the fields you know, you know, like the other one and you have to go back to those very first shots that I showed you you know, like sometimes photos can be deceiving around them were just so many flies and bugs there was cal pilot patties it was like in some ways really disgusting, right? But they like in that when I read out it was one of the best times of the entire day that's hard, you know, she's got bugs and addresses and everything like that and and in fact she said like she had this huge beetle that got taken in the thing now I asked her, do you mind being? And she said, yet buy for them like a neurosurgeons they give this amazing gift to the world and they're the most beautiful people as well and got the biggest hearts you know, and now happy and I wanted to walk in the field now I might have another bride and say you know, I'm not even stepping on a dirty road in my dress, you need to know that, you know, luckily, you know, the bride see these shots and something like this, they know they wanted, like, something like that, they know they dress is going to be the thing is, like, we'll talk about this is that I do a lot of the shots after the ceremony, so I know it in america in the u s like it's really common to the first look, I don't like doing it because it's, not really as really I mean, still real that you're doing it, but there's so much on the mind before the ceremony, you know, they're still going in their mind thinking about, you know, like the day ahead, they're not truly concentrating one hundred percent on each other once the ceremony is done. Man that's what I can think about and that's a street celebration it's, true moment that's true feeling happening, you know? And I'll talk more about that in the preparation in the next segment about but why that is and the differences that you can do and educate your clients and suggests, why don't we do it this way? Why don't we allow because a big thing we're going to do is overcome objection. You know when objection comes our way we need to know how to educate the client so they feel comfortable with and go hey, you know what? That's a really good idea and you gotta make sure that they know is that you're the expert you're the professional you know I mean they need to trust you as well and by doing that comes back to a ll those previous slide is about having respect once you build that mutual respect from two you know like you know like to start this off sometimes you gotta give a piece of you to the decline you could open up you're gonna tell a personal story about your life and something that you've done for them to told them like a personal story about them you know they're not just gonna give it to you you know elected not gonna just walk into st your skype fiancee you know what like my grandfather you know it means the world to may I grew up with her can you make sure you know they're not going to give you that information? So first of all you need to give a party a view to them to start with and that ends up opening up this amazing thing you know, this relationship you are starting a relationship and that's what's great about weddings is that, you know, like winnings jenny is going to be the one time but then they have kids you become their family photographer and that's how my clients look at may I become their family photographer you know which is great and that's what that's what's really good business you know but it's just doing what I love all right so you got to stay calm, you know, all the time you got to stay calm it's one of my biggest assets for some reason you know um I'm always calm but it does and you can do this to like, you know, like I know that you know, like you might have some confidence in shoes with like, you know, being in front of the couple you know, photographing awaiting but you know what once you really you know, hone in on your skills and you feel comfortable that you become because you have belief in your own ability you know, you're going to get the shots and you'll be out to get him even more so because you're calm as well ok, so when they talk about this image and how it came about because we got tio just after the ceremony, the couple had organized this amazing cruise for just the three of us you know, to go down the river in noosa and then get to the reception and have this amazing journey on the way in fact they're going to share a bottle don't pairing on that they were gonna share as well you know it's I knew all of this I was excited for them you know and explain why in a second but the thing was is that we got there to the to the dock and the captain goes I don't know how to tell you this but we can't do the cruise the ship is locked in a canal and the council can't get it out and open it okay there goes a dream so I step in immediately go how well that's all right let's go over here because I there's this amazing spot over there and I think it's the perfect spot for your open that bottle of champagne I took him over to this jetty it was just them they just sat out there just talked themselves and we're now and I said by all the time I'm shitting myself right you know wrecking my mind thinking ok where do I go to bay we pre new another location that we could go to we had already checked it out my assistant was also from new sir I turned to him I said what do you think about this place and he goes yes because I had the confidence and humus well he goes here so we went down we went to this location and this is what happened because they were relax they were having their dream still is that this is not staged you cannot stage that feeling that connection it just happened and it was because I stayed calm I had a plan I knew what to dio had a back up plane we went to it and executed it you know? And I still shed that bottle of dom peri on which is just seeing him in the thing so it tells that story for them and one of the best things I did at my wedding with me and my wife that we went on a honeymoon and on the way back through judy three we bought a bottle don perry on that we said that we would open on now ten year anniversary you know? And we that's what we did on my ten year anniversary went to new so which is it very close to this spot and we open this bottle at sunset on the rocks with the waves lapping up around us and open this bottle of dom perignon which I think by then was like twenty years old. It was the most amazing afternoon how hard the same day I delivered my wedding album to her now, because wedding photographer think of the plumber you know has the work plumbing we didn't even have a wedding album. I was just getting into wedding photography at the time I had a good photographer but the total opposite to me so think of this like, you know, back in the nineteen eighties photography was so formulated that the first shot that the photographer talk was the bride with the bouquet. Now, what happens if the bouquet wasn't there? The photographer couldn't start taking any pictures. Can you believe that? My wedding day all I said to my wife was make sure the bouquet is there. Okay? Turned up late. There was no pictures because it was all formulated and that's was one of the things and then, you know, and we just got all that images on negatives and we never did anything with them. It took ten years for me to produce an album. Think about that with the clients that you do the shooting bones. Now you give him a disc, you know what happens? A few of them end up on facebook fewer women on twitter, people don't go in, print them, they put it in a droll and I forget about it. I don't want my images in a drug to you how much you put into your life to dedicate to be a great wedding photographer, you want those images on a draw? So what I do is that I find that I educate my client and say it's important to have a wedding album, it's important to have something on the wall, sure, in my packages I give them images on disk, but I give them so much much more than that, I give them a proof that is a color proof that they could take to any left so they've got something to match it if they decide to do some cheap prints, but I also let them know that they can have images like this on the war, and I would do that for them and produce the final print form so they know that we always get objection I don't want an album, but I'll say why's that and ask him and so we saw the brothers, you know, and they never open it, and I asked him, why don't they open it? And then also year while the images were all staged and you know, you know that well, if there are stage and have no meaning, why would you want to open the album? Then I show them one of our albums, and I say, look at the story, imagine these is your moments, you're gonna want to open this album, so educating the clients is so important as well, so good about teammates before we take some questions, and I want to talk about the final lesson about connect this was a tough waiting for me today because I got a coal two weeks out from colleen letting me know that a father just passed away, you know? And I knew the pain that I had when my father wasn't there but I mentally prepared for that he calling her to experience that firsthand straight away colleen said to me that look, I'm going to have like a little photo of him on my birthday cake and you make sure you do that detail so that's why details could be really important get to understand some of the meaning sometimes it's a bracelet sometimes it's a brush and it might be a grandmother's broach. And so when I was at the church, I was photographing the groom at the front collins mom walked down or by us self and I just felt everyone felt this is tim's father he just reached across not a word was spoken between the two of them it was just this acknowledgment it was just amazing and I was there to capture one of the things that I've realized is that my clients give me this amazing gift why I try to give them a cz much as possible I give them they give me something more in return, you know, sometimes they don't realize that sometimes I don't even tell them, but they give me something incredible so long like I always find it hard even twenty five years later to deal with my father's death but here they told me what this photo meant to them was that this new union was coming together and that's what these hands represented this one a mansion not through twelve months later that they had a little baby boy and that her father's legacy was living on through that little baby and when I got to understand that I realize that we my three little boys that's what my father's legacy is this with them and this is what the amazing gift the clients give me and I loved him for it so are these lessons of basic they're important every one of them and we can use all of these so we can do a better job at a wedding day so let's go to a couple questions before we break all right okay so there was a question from kindle fifty four who had asked do you have specific stories that you often shared to get the brides to open up or is it just specific to what's going on or do you keep them in your mind and share them you know it's just random you know what I mean like they might be just sparked by something you know we did that day and you know like I might be you know find out what they did for work and then you know like said are you know like one of my friends does this and you know and that's how conversation starts and then like they may talk about someone that you know that's not that's not there and it is it's my responsibility toe tell them that I understand and the reasons why I understand um other times it's just really simple you know, it just may be you know something about shoes and I got my wife loves those shoes it's about connecting in and then from there things will happen and I'll tell you something more personal you know and I tell them something personal it's a sharing thing it's it's a two way street so this is the thing about waiting photography you know couples on going in there to buy a car you know I mean you know this is something personal you know and I learnt that lesson very early on when I got married you know? And sometimes I'll tell this custom to my clients you know is that we're not got married we planned everything we searched high and low for the perfect venue. Well, that perfect venue did the runner on us six weeks out from our wedding you know, I rang them and there was it was disconnected, you know and I rang and I walked up in my lunch I was working for the bank at the time you know and they taking our money and moved to norfolk island you know, I like text me so much to get angry about it I got so angry so upset and I realized is that point is that I went it was not nothing else in my life is that bill messing with something due to me you know like your seeding movies you know and things like that all the time you know, if you mess with someone's child they take a personal and a weddings like that you know it's like a child you know don't mess with it if you get it wrong you're in big trouble you know I mean and that's how I felt and I learned that lesson and I make sure that my clients never have to learn that lesson maybe one more quick question for you from a george a solid gene do you because you talked about how you just kind of wait and you see and you observe and get the right moments do you accept input from the client's regarding the photos that they want and how they should look like it does anybody say what about this? What about that yes like in like most of the time it's it's great you know, like but you know what? Like occasionally like a bridesmaid but in general not the bride were coming you know what let's do the jump shot you know what I mean? And I'm going you seriously want me to do the jump shot? You know, that's what I'm thinking ok, right? You know? You know, like I'm thinking no one seizes I'm definitely going to post this on like blawg, you know? I mean this costs, like, like all the time I get requests, you know. I mean, I do it. You know. I mean, we have a responsibility to deliver and give the greatest experience. And you know what? It's, not always gonna be idea, but that's, your responsibility, you've got to deliver, you know, I mean, you got to deliver exactly what they want.