Day 29 Bonus: Skype call with Lori & Carly
Hello, internet and welcome to the live wrap up of lori nordstrom's thirty days to designing your portrait business photography business lori will be joining us on skype in a few minutes to answer a few questions that you have from the last thirty days as a wrap up and give advice on where to go from here. The thirtieth day goal setting and motivation will start at ten fifteen, so stick around after the wrap up to watch the finale we have our chat rooms open, so police say hello and let us know where you're joining us from and let us know any questions you have left that you would like to be addressed with laurie on this thirty day workshop breaks on every step that a portrait photographer needs to know to really build a thriving and successful business. She's covered everything from finding your niche teo marketing to setting pricing that's a really sustainable for your portrait business she's covered so much in this thirty day course, and today she'll be wrapping that up. She also ha...
s provided with this course a workbook that will share with you in a little bit that you can follow along with the thirty days and really help you as you design your portrait business on dh create something really successful. I was so excited to introduce laurie she's joining us and on skype from her studio and winterset, iowa and she's an amazing photographer and she has a lot to share with us as I'm sure you've figured out by now on dh today will be no different so with that I would love to introduce laurie good morning welcome welcome again thank you yes well we're so excited to have you back for kind of a just a little banter about your thirty days I know that you've had a lot I'm going on and the on your website and with your question you know, questions coming in with so much about all of it all that you covered there's so much and I was wondering if there was any topic that you get asked about most or that you've gotten asked about most over the last thirty days what do you like go ahead sorry there have been I've gotten a lot of e mails and most of the emails I'm I'm answering but I'm trying to direct them to photo talk for him because we've got that free section there and there's a big group of people there that are communicating and asking questions and talking about successes and things that are going on so that's been really great and I would say that you know, there there are a wide range of questions everything from, you know, pricing to sales to finding my niche and once I know what my niche is, what do I do next and there are a lot of questions I would say that the most questions that we have coming in, or about pricing in general, but one of the things that I have realized is that a lot of people are getting really bob down in day to day instead of the big picture, and so a lot of the questions that I get our specific things that have happened, like this client came in and this happened to me, this client said this, how should I react? And you know that that part of it to me, is such a small thing, we can't change how we do business based on one person, and yes, we wantto learn from every experience, and when we have a sale that doesn't go quite right or a conversation that doesn't go quite right, we need to make those adjustments adjustments, but we need to do business as we do business and that's something for us to decide first, and not after not letting our client's dictate how we're going to be running our business. And so that's, what I want to encourage everybody to do is to really think back through this thirty days and putting that plan in place and those systems in place and then following that plan in that system and that's, when you start seeing consistency and when you start seeing success and those that have seen success are doing exactly that they're they're deciding how their business is going to look and how it's going to run and then making those things it happened and then their clients are following right along with them and so, you know, don't get bogged down on, you know, this client didn't react in the right way, or this client said this and I don't know what to say, you know, decide they're going to say it the next time and don't worry about, you know, all those little things look at the big picture, what I want my two thousand fourteen to look like and not, you know, shoot this one session didn't go exactly like I wanted it to I was talking to photographers the other day, and I heard one of them say I was ready to close my business because of this client or this experience. So really, I feel like this is helpful just to kind of haven't over, you know, an overarching vision of something bigger than just one client or one situation, and it happens to everyone, and I will even tell you just a little personal story you know, I with with the christmas season happening and andi even working with creative, live and doing all this in the last month, my studio has gotten bogged down I know I'll be honest, it's been a little bit crazy, a little bit of harry, and we recently ran a christmas promotion, and we did a christmas special will ninety nine dollars special and let people, you know, come in and do many sessions, and there was a client that booked at the last minute I had never worked with before, and I did not communicate the steps, so I let the system fail, and it was a disaster. I had this dad call me three different times, complaining about pricing, complaining about the way things happen. And, you know, I do know in the past, you know, ten years ago, and this really hasn't happened to me and so long, and when I get questions from people, it is hard sometimes for me to go, you know, I will people not complain about pricing when you just walk them through, if you establish value there, they'll pay whatever they think that values, you know, that's very easy for me to say, but I found out recently how easy it is when you do not follow the system that you've put in place don't communicate those things it does break apart, and so it happened to me, and it was a good thing to happen to me, I think. Because it was you know is that little dose of reality that you know you've let things down and it doesn't happen like it's supposed to and so you know, we've got to learn from those things and you know, yeah, ten years ago I probably would bend that person going I quit I can't do that it's been so mad at me and he was so mean and you know, I can't do this anymore but you know, now you realize you know what? I did not communicate what I needed to communicate this is my fault I let the process down and now it'll be better next time awesome well, what have been some of the biggest breakthroughs that you've heard from people who have followed along with this course would have been cem cem notables you know, I think that the biggest consistent breakthroughs have been in sales and I have heard from photographer after photographer who has, you know, doubled, tripled, quadrupled their sales or even making sales for the first time just by presenting products and that's something I'm excited for carly to share a cz well because that's been something for her that she has seen, you know, just by now presenting products to her clients they're the mind stuff and so you know, I think that's been the biggest consistent break through and I get so excited to hear people say you know I did this I was excited with my clients I just presented them the options and I said yes that's awesome it must be so much fun to have that kind of immediate feedback where you're seeing growth already in and students all over the world and just immediate feedback well we would love tio introduce carly I know carly's been a part of this process and you've kind of coached her along and I'd love for you to kind of introduce her share why carly's with us today I've been working with carly one on one and we've gone through the thirty days together and so I'm excited for her to get to share with you kind of what she's been through this last month hi welcome welcome welcome well we're so excited to have have you here again with us and then I know that we have a video that will be kind of following through a little bit of your studio makeover and I got to watch it earlier and it was awesome so I think we're going to show that really quick and then we'll come back to carly for more I never really touching my creative side way has been following my camera just taking pictures of pre when he was born wait really opened up my heart to another way we're here in carly's current studio and this is a spot that's right off of our little downtown square in winterset. It's a it's a small space but there's enough room to work she's got two rooms here to work out of what we have kind of decided over working together and getting carly's business in order is that this space might not be the right vision for the rest of the business and especially moving along and raising prices and bringing your products in. We want to really create something that makes a statement and says something about what her value is right now, the value cannot be seen walking up to the front of the building, so we're going toe work on changing that a little bit and she's got a perfect location that was just something that as we talked and look through what was already available to her, this space is available to her in her family business, so we're goingto work on making that over a little bit wait, wait, we're here on day thirty with carly and her new space, and I'm super excited to show this off to you guys and you really accomplished a lot over the last it's actually been about a month and a half for you, but but over the thirty days and kind of going through this and tell me what people are saying about your new space, I've gotten a lot of positive response from my client's clearly it's much better for me, teo I have my own space and be ableto put my own work on the walls and a cia has really helped me picking out some awesome stuff for the walls so it's been great so the frames air from a c I also theirs are from a cia okay, yeah good and I like that you showed a grouping you have a whole family with the family and each of the kids so we want to show it want to sell so that's awesome and and I like that you have a space here to to bring people too and it's it's kind of a little bit more professional than the every other photographer that's open now mistreats no that's awesome and s o and you've been presenting now products for the first time to your clients yes and how's that going it's going well a lot of them are surprised how like you have this you know, I never knew you know even though I did have a available at some point in time they've never like been able to hold it and feel it and that just makes you want to buy it just by seeing how nice it is just mary and I were going to say oh yeah it works well I have course I'm super excited that you're showing products to your clients so tell everybody what your favorite products are and why you landed on those when you chose those my three top products that my signature pieces that I'm gonna be offering in two thousand fourteen our albums, I just think in albums really something great you can show all your images, teo in one easy place and image boxes, they're going to be my second signature product. Um, I really like that you khun, you know, it's a different way to put all the images into one, you know, display that to your family and friends. My last is wall grouping. Um, I really thought that I wasn't in the can visit the beginning, and now I kind of switched it up and really like frames, so I just think it really adds a nice touch and as something your wall into your room so mexican and you got to order a few from a c I so that probably made a little bit of a difference love them, they're also and you you're having them come already framed and done for you. So that makes a difference to yeah, really cuts out, you know, the extra finishing time and they could make it look better than I probably could. It's great. So on your pricing, any pricing you have got those three options and that's your step one because he decided to do the design your own collection so step one is choose one of those main products album image boxes or walk election, and I think that is so clever because you decided that your average needed to be five hundred and now you've got when they choose one of those things are getting up and over that right away, and then you're throwing in some digital files. Is that right? Yes, I'm kind of doing a step. If they buy two of those, then they get fifteen percent off the rest, but yeah, then they could get it files after that's, okay, yeah, awesome, I love it. Are there any other products that are new to you that you're excited about? I'm really excited about the wall, clings. I think those are really fun, you know, for a kid's room or something, get them excited about the images, too. Carly has gotten all kinds of fun and gifts for her studio makeover. We have amazing products from a c I lab. They sent carly cem framed prints which is a great way to start framing a c I will send you your prints already framed and finished to you so that there's no excuse for you not to be framing for your clients so she got those framed prints she got campus gallery wraps an album and image box and a wall cling and the wall clings or one of a c I's brand new products that are super fun and they're great for kids rooms playrooms anything that you want to just show off something fun that you don't really need a frame for even a campus rap for but it's just create something new and unique and different for a client's home carly also got radio poppers that are going to trigger her flash she's now using flash in the studio on her giant four by six socks locks and you live those yes these are also okay and from song freedom I wanted to make sure that carlos was using licensed music not copyrighted music on her slide shows for clients when she's creating dvds and even showing her clients their images when they come into the studio so she's gonna be able to choose five songs from song freedom and I love the song freedom songs because their current and people recognize them so it's fun to be able to use those songs and things that people actually recognize and tap their toes too yeah and then one of the things I know that you're really excited about his previous software and preview allows you to go in and actually create wall concepts for your client and show them what they're going to get in rial size on their own walls and show them finish before they buy and I know that's a big part of the reason why you've been able to actually sell a lot of those products is because you're showing them finished yes, so we'd live preview and carly got a license it's for what was it a year? Yeah, your your license for previous software so thank you to preview and last, but definitely not least I'm super excited. This is something you don't even know about yet, but carly, you have been boutique teo er, this is from design revolution. We've got all kinds of stuff for you, so I want you to sit down because we've got some stuff to give tio good. All right. Gift number one from design revelation is this really cool store? And carly, I have to tell you I had a really hard time bringing this over here today. I wanted to keep this really bad because I love this, I love it, and then you got so many fun things from you I'm seriously jealous, so this is a fun to put your newborns in yeah, little of it neighboring basket there a little pair of butterfly wings to go on a baby all kinds of headbands awesome pearls yeah every baby loves pearls and then some fun little things for boys we've got a little sweet little boy outfit and then some bow ties and a diaper cover so these aren't bow ties one bow tie and one regular tie don't steal these for your okay they're way cute and then we've got a little romper here I'm just gonna open it for you because this is so fun I'm excited about this too I feel like santa claus that's a revolution little too to yu tai fnd actually with that yeah butterfly and here is a big girl fun and two to go and I may have to come and borrow this tio have that's awesome with the cute little top cute cute kid and then you got two different of the cloak adi rugs that you can use for your new borns a set of baby blocks awesome. Another little I think that goes with this this little too to find them and you even got a mug to drink out of a ah a design revolution you have definitely been beauty awesome thank you. This is great and carly this is a background from molo designs molly long is a friend of ours from here in iowa and she is creating cool backgrounds and you confined her at molo designs on etc and this is for you also thank you got all kinds of cool stuff for excited about your studio makeover and everything looks awesome and I know your clients are gonna be super excited to be in here and working with you yeah me dio mentee carly who has completely changed her business and laurie's been really helping her alongside all of you out there we have a lot of great questions for carly a cz she's kind of gone through this process so we're going to chat with her a little bit again welcome carly we're so glad you're with us in the studio sort of how your client's received you talking about products and not just digital files since you started this new offering you know, I think we're all really excited and I think me being really excited about it really helps them get excited about it. I did have this the product's on my menu before but I never really knew howto communicate that with them. But now that I have preview I'm having them two pictures of their walls and show me what they want in their home and what I can do to help them display their beautiful artwork and before the digital files I was like, oh, they're going to sit in your desk and you're never going to put him off and I think they're really receptive and they're really excited about it is as a mayan it's awesome oh cool yeah it's interesting how that works psychologically when you get really pumped about something it's kind of an invitation for your clients to respond similarly similarly that's really cool some of the changes that you've made are making product suggestions and in person sales how do you feel like this that this has changed the perception of what you're doing for your clients I feel like before I was almost just this lady click and like, you know, clicking the button on the camera and that we didn't really build a relationship and now I feel like I'm their friend I started beginning with hey what do you have in your house? What about your kids tell me a little more about you and then we really build up a relationship I'm their friend as well as a photographer as well as their interior designer it's it's really fun and it's really just building a whole new experience for them and not just being the person that clicks and then I'm gone and that I've done I'm really building a report with them and something that they're going to come back to you in the end you know we're it's really exciting it's awesome and I have this process to follow now so it's just doesn't fall through and it's been really easy so it's great that so called going into their homes, I feel like that kind of adds a new element around leasing images of them that's probably like instant friends. You're going, you know, you're building that but up. Well, the creative live audience watched as you put your two thousand fourteen projections on paper. So fun. How do you feel about setting those goals? Are there any fears that you have about the coming year? Yeah, I think that what I did before I just kind of was like, oh, maybe all had fifty dollars here, fifty dollars there, you know? But when I sat down with lori and we actually put down what I want to make next year, what I have to do to get to those goals, it really made them or attainable for me, it seemed so much easier now that I know what to do to get there. So that's really exciting. So now I know what I have to dio and I just have to do it or, you know, it's kind of making a wreck it you got to do it, you gotta follow your process and my fears we're oh, no, my cousin's friend is going to come to me in what are they going to think they're so why am I charging so much, you know, but I've learned that it's about me and my business and my family and what I have to do to get there because really ultimately I was sacrificing everything in my life teo make everybody else happy, but now my goal is to how successful awesome business for me and if I make those ten people happy a month rather than those fifty people happy a month, I can do an awesome job for them rather than mediocre pictures and you stressed out, you know my fears are really they're really easy for me to just find respect oh, that wasn't african feel everything that scared me in the beginning is not as big of a deal now because I have done it I have sold I've had eight steel sessions now that are over my five hundred fifty eight dollars goal and they were there a piece of cake just because of him and explained it to him you know it's been awesome and are you naturally an extroverted person who loves having this conversation's or was that really difficult free to build that, uh, compensation and ease? Yeah, I think that in the beginning I was just scared and I don't know why I was scared because yeah, I love talking to people I love building relationships it's not hard for me to sit down, talk to laurie and have a fun conversation with her and I don't I don't know why I was scared I really don't know, I just thought maybe they won't like it. Maybe they and they love it it's so fun you can sit and talk to him about their dog for five minutes and then it's like, hey let's, put a picture of your daughter and all, you know, it's just it's awesome and opens up conversation and that's what you really need to do is build a relationship with them and it makes it so easy to sell and being a person with them and using preview it's it's so simple that's so cool that's so cool, I know that everyone watching you it's kind of like, you know, an oprah when they bring on guess and it's like, oh, I can totally, really with that person like you're that person and everyone's looking at, you know, what are you calling me over? You're totally over, totally over and this is yeah, you're like pretty much on a couch right now, so I know that all of our audience, they just love watching you because it's like a realtor tangible example of someone who is trying these things for the first time, it's totally fresh it's, totally new andi watching you learn it. On dh kind of have it become natural is really exciting for everyone so thank you so much for sharing your life with us and your business and the process of establishing a process so thank you carly and I think we're great on questions for carly so again bravo teo and you know I told her when we started this process they're goingto kind of have to bear it all put it all out there and she has done that and been willing to do that and I love it and I do feel like there are so many people out there who are at you know, just like she said at that it's time to make it or break it you know? And I've heard that from photographers over and over through this that I've said to me I have to figure out how to make this work or I need to be done because you know it's just at that point and you know that's where carly kind of west coming into this you've been shooting for three years she was wearing herself helped and you know, making everybody else around her stressed a cz well and so you know it is I think it's very relatable so thank you thank you awesome well the last twenty minutes we'd love to just cover a few more questions for you lori questions air coming in from the chat room and we have some just kind of that have built up over the month of course there's so much curiosity around what you're posing and what's really cool is that I just love that it's been done in a thirty day window so I think people are trying these things out and kind of having that immediate immediate feedback and curiosity for you um we'll start with the topic that you're getting asked about the most which is pricing at what point do you give your client's pricing what at what point you educate them on your whole pricing system? It wasn't really a question I get that question a lot from people because we we've got to present it to them before we do the session because if we don't that's where disappointment comes you know I didn't understand it was gonna cost this much I don't really you know they don't get it and so we've got to present it but if we present it too soon and that's also a problem because if we haven't established value yet then the pricing doesn't make sense and so for me the best place to present the pricing is we've been through the entire first on call which if you know when you purchased the course you've got the entire phone scripts for the first song called my first phone call is likely I'd go through everything with the client from have you thought about where we're gonna hang your portrait teo really about planning a designing the session and getting to that point of what I need from them as far as images of their walls and, you know, we go through all of those things, and so after that we're booking the session, I'm telling them what's gonna happen next, which is coming in for their order appointment, we're booking that usually, and talking about how that will go, and then I'm sending the pricing and what happens is almost on every single phone call if it's not a past client, on every first phone call, they are asking for pricing right away in the beginning, they're calling and saying how much your packages, how much by tens, how much your digital files, you know, whatever the question is and, you know, so that question is gonna happen and, you know, I've just learned with my language and with, you know, my phone script to just redirect that question and tell them you have thanks so much for calling, I'd be so happy to send you our entire product men, you know, tell me about who we're gonna be photographing and just turn the conversation start talking about them, letting them talk and building that relationship like carly said, and, you know, and then at the end of that process, that's when the pricing khun go out that's really helpful it's so basic but that's a huge, huge and really, really helpful way to kind of shift attention good that's awesome! I'm personally helped. Thank you, lori. Um it's so hard to determine a value for your time how do you decide how much you should be paid when you're putting together? You're just pricing and what's included in the downloads? How do you go about evaluating how to price? Yeah, that's another question that I get a lot, you know? And there is no one answer because it is different for everyone and that's why, you know, I can't look at carly and carly can't look at me or there was hunger for down the street, you know? We can't look to each other for pricing, you know it because all of our expenses are different, our lifestyles are different, our needs are different, you know, everyone circumstances are different, and so you have to really based that on your own, you know, your own business and your own what your own goals, what you want from that when you're looking at the price calculator and the price calculator is the first place, and we talked about this and we talked about setting your prices but looking at a cost based pricing method. Should be your bare bones rock bottom this is where I need to price and then I'm going to start upping my prices as I can as there's more demand for my work as I you know want to do more or less or whatever. So what bare bones is cost based pricing and the goal is a twenty five percent cost of sale and to reach that goal we're going to take all of our cost associate id multiplying times for to get that price that would be a twenty five percent cost of sale and the easy part is adding up all of our fixed costs I know how much it costs to mount print texture in all those things package the hard hard part is that time value and we've got to put that time now you in there to be profitable but what is that magic number and again it's going to be different for everybody and I would say that in the beginning now one of the things that we talked about what we talked about working in this way and building that cost based pricing is at the bare minimum if you're not ready to say why I want to make twenty dollars an hour I want fifty dollars an hour whatever your thing is you know at the bare minimum you should put a time value in there that is whatever it would take for someone else to be able to produce that products for you. So if I broke my arm tomorrow and I'm gonna have somebody else do my retouching, sending to the lab ordering and actually packaging that, what is that time or what would I have to pay someone else? And so, you know, if you're not able to put that value on your own time, look and see what it would take to have somebody else complete that project and build that into your pricing really, really helpful that's a great way of saying that, you know, I've never seen that heard that where you think about what it would cost to hire someone else, you mentioned that you wait unsure ing your pricing with your clients on the phone. Do you ever post any of your pricing or your pricing ranges on your website or anywhere online for people to find? I do not, and I've gone back and forth with that over the years I have gone through times right posted session feast, and that is something that I will tell people just will right away or phone, especially if they ask a second time about pricing. I'll let them know what the session fears because that's a little bit of a qualifier right there and, you know, part of the argument for putting image or putting a pricing online. Is that qualifier you know I want people to know when I charge before they calls but I'm not getting those calls of people who want a ten dollars five by seven and that makes sense to an extent the problem is is these days everyone's a price shopper and if I don't know what the value is of the product that I'm buying there was no way that pricing can make sense to me and so if we put pricing online we're certainly going to turn off a lot of people I would turn off a lot of people with my pricing if I put it online where yes there's still going to be people that call that you know it's not gonna be the exit but the majority of people I can walk through my phone script I can get them to the point of you know, hey, I called thinking I was getting it eight by ten and a couple five by sevens you know those big ones and you know, take that person through and asking the questions about there you know where they're going to hang the portrait, what they're going to enjoy most every every single day and talking to them about their lifestyle and what's important to them and you know, building that relationship and then by the end of it when we're presenting the pricing it all makes sense so that my philosophy is not to put pricing online I think it's fine if you want to put you know we have packages starting at a certain price if that you know makes somebody comfortable, there is no absolutes to any of this, you know, and even ever there's so many things that are done that I I believe that they're the only way that worked for me, but I do know that other people are going to need to tweak because there's no right or wrong there's no absolute so while I personally don't believe it's right to put pricing online for my clients, you know it may be the right thing for somebody else but that's the point for me I don't want it online, I want to present it to them after I've built the relationship and built the value that's great and I love that you focus on asking them what they want, so starting the conversation out not not what I'm charging, but what do you need? What do you want? What is your life look like? I think that that's a huge asset to what makes you lori nordstrom that's why you are who you are? Well, a lot of people always have questions about digital files and how you navigate that do you everyone loves facebook and having the images, how do you approach that and use and how do you sell them and work with that well, digital files is going to be part of all of our lives for her now is just is just the way it is and you know, I know for me even, you know, just five, six years ago I was saying I will never sell a digital file I will never you know and you know, these days it's not an option we have to make digital files available that's the product of two thousand fourteen two thousand thirteen so you know, we've got to do that, but for me my first answer for clients is that every image order you're going to get a websites file to be able to share with friends the family put on facebook use however you want it online, those images are very small they are web sized, they've got my logo on them but those things don't even need to be communicated in the beginning I just tell them, you know, it's a yes answer absolutely every image order you're going to get you're gonna get those websites files to share and obviously I mean I would say ninety percent of the time that is the answer that's all they want is tio have those images to share and you know, so we have to let them we have to allow them to do that if we don't they are going to take pictures of our pictures they are going to you know, steal our pictures we have to expect that and so giving to them to them in a low rez web sites file that they can share is a very positive thing for about them and for us I'm a better thing I highly highly suggest two photographers is when somebody calls and they want to show us you know, the next question that I asked to them is do you mind telling me what you plan on doing with your digital files? And but just by posing that question, a lot of times people don't even know all they all they knew was to ask because that's what? You know, seventy five percent of the photographers out there are selling that's what they're offering and so that's when I asked cause that's all I know and so if I asked them, you know, you might tell me what you plan on doing with your usual files, you know? They're going to give me that answer and if it's, you know what? I just want to make sure that I can put it on facebook and share them you know? I'm gonna answer no problem every single you image you order, you're going to get free from me, you're gonna get a website's file to share and so you know, that's an answer now I do have digital collections that are available but I've priced them in a way that they're very undesirable, you know? So I can point people I can say yes, we do have those digital collections available for those clients who want to archive their images and that's kind of how we talk about it to the client and there are people that buy them for those purposes, but I do tell them no value in what we do together is going to be in the products that you enjoy every single day it's going to be in the album that you hold and you look through with your child it's going to be the images that are on your wall that you enjoy every time you sit down to have dinner together, you know those they're going to be the things that are going to breathe the most joy, not the digital files that will live and die on your computer. And so, you know, just learning that language and communicating with clients, and I think a lot of times, you know, we get the question and it's weird get frozen, you know, well, that's what they want, I have to figure out how to give that to them, you know, when really they don't really know what they want until we tell them and so that's part of the beauty of this process is really making those suggestions. And kind of getting into the minds and the hearts in the lifestyle of our clients and getting to know them and then creating beautiful things that they can't enjoy every day that's a really good do you require a minimum order for your clients or is it open ended and I do not require a minimum order however I do feel and I just got this question on the forum maybe yesterday, but one of my beliefs is that, you know, if if someone is continually having a problem making no suggestions, putting themselves out there getting the sale that they need, you know, meeting those averages that they've set out then you know, a minimum kind of starts to make sense well, I don't want to shoot unless I could make this match, but when we use the word minimum in a lot of times has a negative, you know, perception to our clients it's also usually if we tell them our minimum order is five hundred dollars than in their minds, they got something that they have to get. Teo you know, I've got to get to five hundred dollars, so I don't feel like if you feel that you need to have a minimum instead make it a credit towards your order and so for example, if I want them to spend five hundred dollars, I'm going to make my investment my initial investment six hundred fifty dollars and that includes your session fee your consultation you're you know custom designed while concepts you know build the value there and five hundred dollars in port credit and so that way you know that we know that they've made that initial investment that there we need to have them to have we've told them you've got five hundred dollars they have to spend towards your orbiter and so it's a positive and they can you know it's not a problem in their minds to add on to that so think about your minimums and instead is as a credit or as you know something that that they have to be you know be a positive that's a really good personally but you know we have the system in place so that I don't have anybody that spends less than sent for the guy a couple weeks ago well thank you dr little peaceful right don't focus on him um well what is your final advice teo viewers that have been watching thirty days to design your portrait business what where should they go from here? What what are your last words of wisdom? Well I think you know, first of all I feel like the thirty days in general is something that you can revisit over and over again because it's not something that you're ever going to go through thirty days and get every single thing in place and so, you know, and I for myself, I personally rewrite my business plan it's, not a full rewrite, but I no update and modify my business plan every single year needed to grow and change along with me. I am making some gigantic changes for two thousand fourteen and doing things come, I mean, it's going to be completely different? I'm super excited about it, but, you know, getting stuck in a mode is, you know, if we can't grow and change, if we do that, and so everything that you put on paper should to feel like it's, a living and breathing thing, you know, as we grow and change where everything is going to evolve with us. I know carly when we sat down with her and rode her projections, they knew that to reach her goal for how many sessions that she could shoot, she needed to get to a five hundred forty some, I think, something dollar average, and now with every one of the sales that she's done so far, she's gone over that goal and so she's already ready to rewrite it and it's just that then you know, a month, and so I'm excited that and I feel the same way, you know, once you start putting these things into place, you're gonna go back and revisit and you know, read out the steps that you can grow that you can you know, make even better than you did the first time around and so I think it's a continual process always you know we're always we always should be growing we always should be learning and you know, really wanting teo make changes and make things there all the time and so you know, if I'm asked what the next step is I think you know, the next step is just not ever niner stop not ever, you know, quit growing and no look for all the different ways that you could be profitable and there's, you know, there's so many different things available to us and I've asked photographers and no just to really think like a business person and and that's so far but hopefully the thirty day process along with all the downloads and everything that there is I've had so many emails from people that have said I haven't even been able to open it all yet because there's so much here and you know, so that's great and I you know, we're now almost at the new year and so it is a perfect time tio you started again and really think through you know, what are the different steps that I need to improve on some so good? Well, thank you so much, larry I know that it is the new year, and it's kind of. I know that a lot of portrait businesses, I don't know if this is true for you, but january and february, kind of slower times. So it does seem kind of like a prime opportunity for those that might not have followed to start that in the near, and maybe do the month of january, you know, into february. S o that's really inspiring to hear you kind of just say, go forth and conquer. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Way loved having you here, and I know that everyone's there really excited about hearing your last day. Your last session is today. So thank you for being here for your wisdom and insight, and just opening up your business and your experience. And you're just, uh, you know, acquire knowledge through the years and sharing it with us, so thank you.