Retouching Workflow in Photoshop
We're going to have some fun, we're goingto do a few things in this segment I'm going toe edit some of the images that we shot the last couple of days just to kind of show you some workflow, we're going to show you a couple of products that I would design for a session like these and how to develop kind of your own annual product line yourself in your studio, ok, so we're going to first start off. This is little alexey and this is straight out of camera the image like I wanted to show you, I've been calling through these a little bit over the last ten minutes or so way had a good time kind of messing through him and seeing what was here, I'm going to just kind of part of me thought about like going through the images and actually calling them, but I'm such a fast color that I'm afraid that people would get lost, but what I really do want to do is talk to you about retouching a basic image for some serious impact. One of the images that I want to play with that I had seen earlier was th...
is one here that I shot kind of on the fly when she was peeking through the chair at us I kind of wanted to work with this one because I think it has some potential and frightening her eyes another great one to do that kind of thing with would be over let's. See what we've got in this. This department here, little ezra, was just delicious. I mean, is that good? Any cuter, he's? Just such a little love? Andi, I haven't really looked at these for sharpness. I've simply look at them for expression and nothing's happening in the middle of the session to kind of get a good moment. So we really told a story right here, and this is the serious that I'm going to use to show you a little product that we would make out of this using photo shop and kind of compositing things cutely, so I'll just kind of scroll through some of these here, let some of these are just so cute, isn't he just a peanut? Uh, teo, I squeal a lot when I'm calling it's so funny that the studio there's three of us sitting there, sarah, belinda and myself, upstairs and, um, will be culling images and the girls will just, like, start squealing at me. I'm going here, they just freak out before you've even edit anything, and I'm like guys that's okay, so what I think I want to do first office, start with something fairly simple and straightforward, so let's, go up to you guys have a preference on any of these this is pretty cute right here, isn't it? Let's go ahead and open up this any f file so the first thing that I do in camera raw is just minor minor adjustments now since I white balanced with the custom white balance and camera, that color looks a day and good right away like we don't even have to really do much to the color and that's beautiful because it means you don't have to train your eye to see that color you know specifically so there's some frozen cause that like when I was shooting an auto white balance back in the day but I didn't know any better I would have to fix the color and pretty much almost every single image that I that I worked with and put it trained my eye to see magenta casts and blue casts an image and if it was warm enough for cool enough so the benefit it does that it trains your eye the disadvantage is that it takes forever to do so when you custom white balance like this you really jonah service to yourself by getting yourself correct color right away so one of the first things I do c I saw this within eighty five millimeter lens at one point eight, four hundred eyes, so one one one three twentieth of a second I'm going to go into my lens correction profile and on the eighty five millimeter lens that's not as dramatic is on the fifty all show it to you on a fifteen you'll see huge difference but if I just put enable lens profile correction it takes away the vignette as you can see each lens that you use has some kind of distortion urban yet you can see the chair in the upper right see the upper right corner how the chair is shifting it's correcting for distortion in the lens and with the wider england obviously you're going to see that difference much more so so that's like the first thing I do and it kind of breaks the edges to get rid of that than yet that your lens tends to create on your camera automatically so camera raw nose which lens you've used based on the metadata and select that lends out of the profile and just automatically fixes it by the check of that button which is priest thinking cool okay, so then I'll start messing around with exposure shadows things like that it looks pretty good I mean I'm not going to fuss with it too much I might brighten but I love to do is kind of bring the shadows out like kind of make it not so high contrast but then reduce my blacks and that gives me a little bit of a crisper crisper tonality to it and then I usually give it just a little touch of clarity. Clarity is adding contrast to the mid tones. It kind of feels like it sharpen things up a little bit and gives it some death. And then what? I also do it sometimes, like you can see his skin tones a little bit pink, so all go into my color area into my saturation saturation unlimited, and I will go under saturation and just take my reds down like my ticket do down he looks dead, a dead baby, but I will like and then orange to sandwich oranges in his skin just by reducing the slider up and down, you can kind of see how much oranges there, and sometimes it can be a little too much. So I'll just pop the orange down just to give his skin a little bit of a softer, creamier look to it and I will open the image photoshopped that's about as much kamerad adjustment as ideo on every single image. So now that I am in photo shop, um I can play around with this, crop it and do some adjustments that brighten him up now for a client, I would pretty much kind of crop it the way I want it, maybe to a cute little head shot and leave it at that I'd sharpen and go per client because he doesn't have I mean, you don't think about these babies and this slobber is awesome don't get rid of it. It's so cute he's got a couple little places here that I could touch up, you know, with my patch tool or whatever, but for the most part he's a pretty clean baby and most babies are this age now newborns the different story, they have a lot of acne and magenta skin tone skin correction on newborns is a lot harder, but so, like I said, I was pretty much sharpen and go with this one. However, if I was going to print this large like a big campus, I would do things a little bit differently and I'm going to show you this techniques here it looks like a nice, sharp image. Um I'm going to go ahead and start dodging and burning too give it, make the shadows on the highlights start tio come out and have it look more like a start to look more like a painting rather than a photograph. So I would only do this if I'm really going to print it big or it's a super special image that the client wants to do something amazing with they're paying me to do it just doesn't make sense, so this is intense editing that I don't do in every image what? I just did the slight raw adjustments a little cropping fixed some skin sharpen and go that is every day imagery I try to spend a minute or less on an image time yourself usually I'm around a minute and a half if I'm realistic with myself but belinda when she first started adding me was like for five minutes and image and she's now down to two two and a half minutes an image you want to like get your speed up and one of the ways to get your speed up is to shoot it right in cameras that's what? I really want youto focus on that color balance and doing your custom white belts in camera because it just makes it so much more fun at it. Okay? So little man let's see a lovely little bright rosy cheeks he just looks so stinking kid is a little soft over on this guy over here. That's okay? Okay, it's one of the first things I'm gonna do is just dodge and dogs. The highlights when I'm going to do is put this layer in soft light mode. This is a blending mode. Okay, so whatever I paint on this layer is gonna have a soft light effect on it's going to have a soft light lending mode to it, so then what I'm gonna do is take my brush tool okay and I'm going to pick a color a really light color sometimes even white is best so that's kind of a creamy tone I'm think I'm going to go ahead and go with white and then my brush is normal mode and maia passing I'm going to drop down to about twenty percent and I'm going to start dodging the highlights in here okay and just brightening them up a little bit to make his little lip highlight there saying I want the little highlights in the drool to stand out I want his eyes to stand out we're going to hide, make those highlights in his eyes kick in a little bit more I'm just touching my welcome to that end I constantly zooming out we see how is I start to brighten up. I can also do this on the highlights on his nose on his little cheek. Wherever you see a highlight, you can go in and kind of accentuated even on the hat you could do it so you can start taking color tones and dodging with the color tone rather than with the dodge and burn troll and increase your opacity as you go kind of helping your highlights along here he got the hat all crooked and inside out because he had taken it off when we put it back on him, but you see how I'm kind of increasing the highlights on the fabric my color just totally adjusted on me did you guys see that other color like totally with me he's way more red than he was and I don't know what happened there okay, I'll check in on that anyway theo joys of technology so I'm just kind of highlighting the fact that you see these little highlight pops in the fabric how I can make those accentuate and bring some tonality I could do the same thing to the chair in the back if I want to create that death this color is really bugging me I'm gonna go ahead and picks it where's my properties panel there is at least I don't know if they're seeing something different at home or not that's the thing you're checking for me okay? I'll leave that in layers so we don't okay he still looks really that's ok, so that layer is my highlight player okay, now you do the same thing adding a new empty layer and putting this one in multiply mode so now we're gonna burn right? I can choose another color from his hat say for example at uh usually just pretty low percentage but then I can start burning in these areas that have shadow I can really bring out the texture and detail in too close to the edge there and you could always mask off and I think about doing this on another layers that you khun mask it off later and then I could go into his skin and pick his little nose picking your nose buddy and highlight the shadows inside the nose so you can see all of a sudden I'm creating depth and dimension to an image and creating contrast could even go into his little too much ten percent softer color. What happens? This is pretty much how I prep a painting to to create it's all about light and shadow, right it's all about making light and shadow looking, but just by reducing adding highlights and shadows, I've all of a sudden made things popping the image that weren't necessarily popping before. Okay, so it's a matter of seeing where the highlights and shadows fall, I can go into his eyes start making those eyelashes pop to go a little darker after careful on boys not to do this too much because it looks like they're wearing makeup but creating that little soft look you can make the exterior of the iris a little darker to create to increase the intensity I I'm actually doing this a little bit overboard now just to show you the difference, but look how much it increases the the brightness in his eyes without changing much of who he is I think I did the highlights in the eyes a little bit too strongly but that's a great way, though create some interest in the image especially if you're gonna be printing at large you want to see those little details and you want the client to feel like the image is not something that they could produce and these little things do that okay let's kind of do this again but on something different maybe the next time I open an image it'll come up with the right color so much better it looks in bridge like my colors were better range arranged lines okay, this one's a little bit overexposed but guys and he just accused thing ever no one's cuter isn't it so cute and this was shot with a fifty wasn't I shoot fifty? No, I shot with anything. Okay, so first things first enable lends correction see how it kind of fixes most of your vignette ing problems just by doing that go ahead, just touch up my exposure a little bit and bring my shadows back so it's not so contrast e my highlights feel little bright to me so I'm gonna pop him down just a touch increase my blacks just a hair's breath little clarity it was a little bit of there's good contrast my reflector wasn't filling in over here as much as I wanted do you see that I'm just kind of helping it out a touch I feel like it's a touch warm too my white balance kind of freaked out on me love it when I was shooting, so I re read it and that's probably why I remember how I said things felt a little warm so that's kind of what I'm rich appearing at the moment so go in adjust these orange is a little bit to be not quite so much maybe the reds to just a hair's breath don't want to do too much on a baby because otherwise yeah looks like a little selective color nightmare the other thing you could do is goingto luminant and increase the luminous and the reds do you see how it's just create kind of lightning it's creating a light? I can really speculate quality, but just like it add some brightness to those reds and I think that looks really beautiful sometimes okay, so open up the image you see, I've got some background issues I gotta fix over here super easy to fix and probably the first thing I'm going to dio so kind of like I did in the previous you know, when we get a little bit of design editing in the first segment today, I'm going to go over to my rectangular marquis tool with no feather and make sure it has no feather and I'm gonna highlight the left side of the image where I need to fix and I'm going to also highlight some extra background I'm gonna press commander control t to free transform the selection and simply pull my background out and that fixes everything pretty much right there and d select and I have now repaired my background too and without cropping image could you crop insure it's easy just as easy to crop in is not but I want to give you options in case you don't want to crop in in case you actually want the image toe toe look as is let's see if it's sharp yeah looking pretty good going thank you think that expression just kills me? Uh, sweetheart? Okay, selective cholera use a lot with my babies and my newborns and my baby's uh so selective color adjustment I add that layer and then the properties panel should pop up there is what I do is selective color basically allows you to play with science magenta yellow and black inside the channel of color that you select they want so I usually always have in the red's because there's so much red in skin, especially caucasian skin. So I'll be in the reds and I now I could fussed with magenta yellow and sayin just in the red so if I start reducing magenta here all I'm doing is playing with the magenta that's inside the red which makes it not quite so intense you see, I just reduced the reds in his skin I can increase them or I can reduce them so this is obviously way too much magenta inside the reds, so I'm going to reduce the mention magenta atop a touch and helps kind of make that skin creamy you could even increase the yellow if you want to kind of give the red's a warm tone but awesome notice I'm changing my background a little bit and that's because there's red in my background so I have to be very careful about not overdoing that okay, so then I smashed my layer I'm pretty destructive editor, especially when I'm doing stuff for clients that it's just everyday stuff if I'm doing creative work or composite work, I do definitely do things in layers I have a competition print right now that has almost two hundred layers in it they become a huge files but I wanna be able to go back and change stuff should I tweak it for competition so just keep that in mind, okay? So I'm gonna go ahead and do the same thing I did before just so you guys get the idea of it once again oh my gosh, he looks so sad, doesn't he? But its so cute at the same time so I had a new layer we're going to go into soft light mode once again pick my brush tool I'm going to go to default color mode because I want the black and the white specifically the white I usually do highlight with my wife brush in soft light mode, but you don't have to you can definitely pick a color from the image and use that sometimes that is more effective because it creates dodging and burning within that color tone. Does that make sense rather than just using black or white? So we're gonna brighten the catch lights just to touch knock down to ten percent layer on the little catch like here and I think I'm actually gonna use the blue but I'm goingto pop up to a lighter blue to give me a prettier, more natural catch lights you see the difference? How now it's dodging with blue rather than with a white it just makes a little bit of a difference. So, um, this catch light over here is not quite the right color, so I'm gonna grab nice like color again. Let's go even lighter and its seriously like painting on your image it's all it really is um and then I'm gonna go ahead and go back to my default white and to the lips touch that there you see how that starts to really make the highlights just sing and look almost wet like his lips are wet, so I want those highlights to almost pop even more because it really extension waits what he's doing right now then I'm going to go ahead and add a burn layer. Okay, so that's a new layer let's make this one highlights so you guys remember what I did here highlights shadows who I can't type what do they call that keep coordinated yeah, you were in the dictionary so now I'm going to go and do the shadows same thing I'm in my brush tool and just about thirty percent picked that dark color maybe go even a little bit darker and give the outline of the eye's just a touch and you have to play around with your percentages guys, sometimes you want to work with things and just light light tones to create that just little accentuated look, you don't want to overdo it too much and then sometimes that's too thick I don't like it and then sometimes you're gonna want to go darker to create more of ah um intense look ok? Just kind of adding in a few extra lashes to give it that intensity and you don't think it does much now, but when I go to print that large it's going to make a huge difference on those details okay same thing with the little shadows and his nose I can go ahead and pick a darker color here and make that come alive so you see what it does, it just kind of really makes him pop the features in his face, pop. I could do the same thing with just shadow areas on the face, so I selected the shadow area here. I'm going to go ahead and just dark and it down just a touch. We're still a ten percent. I was gonna paint over that and give it a little bit of ah accentuation. You could see it right there. See that and sometimes it's too much and you may want to go ahead and mask things out of it. So I just applied a layer mask default colors and kind of make that more like forty percent and brush some of it out so it looks natural. This is going t so again, without shadow, with without chatter with okay, this is going to teach you how teo that's way too much how to see light and shadow and it's going to help you see light direction. Okay? You'll know when a shadow doesn't look correct and you'll go that seems a little weird. I don't like the way that's going. Why is that usually it's? Because the shadow you've added a shadow that doesn't make sense, okay, light travels in a straight line so the shadow beyond the object is going to be a straight line radiating out for it unless you have multiple lights on the subject then you'll get shadows happening in funky directions but it's like if you look at my cup here there is a light right there the highlight is on this side and the shadow casting on the table is right here it's a straight line from that light casting down shadow is not going to be over here somewhere and the highlight right there it doesn't make sense now if there's two lights on the object like if there was a there there is there's a weaker light over here but it's not strong enough to cast a shadow this way but it might give a kiss of a highlight over here or whatever but it has to make sense so I strongly encourage you to look at shadows and how they fall like this is interesting right here on my the I don't know if the camera can actually see this but in the court of my hard drive here is giving me one shadow and two shadows if I move it around you can see the two shadows on the table there that is because I've got lighting coming from two different directions but it's still traveling in a straight line so this shadow here is coming from that light this shadow here is coming from that light over there that makes sense so study shadows shadows will tell you where the light is coming from don't necessarily look at the light look at where the shadow falls okay? Because you can pretty much draw from a straight line from the shadow to where the lighting source would be and that's so important when it comes to compositing. Um the other thing you can do or start to do is do the same thing in the hair so I'm gonna go ahead and start highlighting his hair a little bit and make these little adorable strands pop out, but all I'm doing it really is accentuating where I see the light already, so I'm not adding anything new I'm just accentuating what's already there and then I can go ahead and do the same thing god he's just so cute he makes my heart saying, and sometimes you'll get images like this and you just want to work on them because they're so ridiculous like you you're like okay and the same thing with the shadows go into the shadow side, pick a dark color and start accentuating where the fabric where the where the hair dark areas are where the shadows are sometimes you have to go backwards and change colors ago that's not quite right sometimes like little pieces like this that are wet, you'll wanna accentuate so I'm just dropping down my capacity to make it work the way I want it to work and this is detailed out of it you guys don't do this for every single image you'll make yourself crazy but for really images that you want to print big or images that you want to do in competition for images that you want to show on your website too really highlight the work that you do and for marking materials and things like this this is amazing so even just you could see this is how we started at those highlights at those shadows and we've created a much more dynamic image that really makes the light pop on his face yeah yeah we have a carmen has a question carmen questions I have a question how often do you retouch their skin because I know at this age you mentioned how their their their skin is really fine but they're babies yeah there's like newborns you have to go back and kind of soft I do more retouching on newborn images than I do on baby planners baby planners are quick and dirty okay newborn sessions sometimes I'm sure you guys know you'll get a baby with skin that is just between being rainbow colored from john nous and magenta pink to acne teo scrapes on there because they take their little nails and they scrape their face so yeah newborn skin is a lot harder to edit than a baby like this so that's up to your benefit, but it doesn't mean you're charging you, you know, it takes my opinion, takes just as much work in the client's mind for you to do this kind of to do a baby plant session than it does for you, a newborn session that answer a question. Okay, so the background I'm kind of, I'm getting happy with the way he's I haven't quite I would go in and do that highlight and shadow thing all over the image of what was really going to use this as, like a competition print, or as a big canvas or something for the studio or for a marketing material, the background is a little bit funky in here. This this shadow line right here is, is bothering me a little bit, the fall off it's, not even it doesn't quite look pretty, so I'm going to go ahead and fix that. So what I do is I press command j to duplicate my background layer, so I'm not editing on the original layer, so I take the brush tool, they make a nice big brush. Now shortcut for you, those of you who love shortcuts. If you press control, option on a mac and slide your mouse back and forth, you can make your brush bigger and smaller you don't have to go bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket bracket oh god this pain about bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger don't do that anymore control option slide your brush back and forth to make it bigger or smaller up or down to make it harder or softer. I usually work with pretty soft brush so it around thirty percent capacity I'm going to go ahead and pick a foreground color kind of this lighter tone and evenly brush out things I don't mind if I get little ezra I just kind of want to even out my background a bit that's not quite so such a strong shadow and I want some toe indicate that depth, but I don't need a ton of line there do you see that how that smoothed out my background somewhat now it's a piece of cake for me to just do a layer mask at a hundred percent capacity in using black and maybe a little harder of a brush I was going to erase it off mr ezra here and I'm gonna have to do some fixing on the edges there that's for sure, but um you can easily take it off of him this is a quick and dirty job and make your background smoother the other way to do this is instead of picking a lighter color that would be the foreground make it a little easier on yourself to placate your layer I'm going back to the beginning here and pick a color that's really close to next to ezra okay, kind of in this range right here at around thirty percent and just even things out slightly no help kind of this is how I fix really bad banding discovered get banding in her image is what I'm talking about that annoying rainbow color on your images like the digital banding thiss kind of helps fix that now if you really want to get anal with us, you could use your quick selection tool and actually select him and a fine edge to make sure you've got a really great selection around him and trust me, I have had to do that with really bad banding, but now that I'm shooting with the lighting set up that I'm shooting now with with um banning is usually a problem on seamless paper because the great asian the digital camera has trouble reading the great the smooth radiant of light across the smooth color surface does that make sense? So it tends to digitize it which is what banding is, but if you like your background evenly, you won't have that problem at all banding will not be an issue, so one of the reasons I used to large soft boxes for my lighting setup is because that large soft box on the front helps like the background really evenly and then the the kicker soft boxed on the on the far camera right side of my my background helps give a kicker light to the child and it helps fill the light on the background to prevent that banding okay sorry squirrels let's go I'm gonna go ahead and take this off of mr ezra here so quiet whenever I get it creative life you get used to your voice and because you talk so much when you do these and then when you don't talk and you're quiet for a minute it feels awkward at times you're like not talking enough again maybe I should just I talk to myself when I had it to any of you else talk so do any of you do that you kind of mumbling talking think about the day belinda's notorious for this she chats all the time when she edits it's really cute sometimes I have to go blenda shash for but what's really hard is when she's talking and she'll say like, oh, how cute is that baby or she'll like squeal about have some cute something isn't and sarah are telling you get excited so anyway so this is you know, with the background not smoothed out and then I just out of that brush layer and it really kind of helped even things out in the background and make for a non destructing background that's the big key is just producing something in photoshopped that keeps distractions to a minimum all right, so I'm gonna go ahead and smash those layers down uh sharpen I just have a little clarifying action that I used that sharpens these are pretty easy to get anywhere you want really? All it does is run high pass and the un sharp masking a high pass to create really clinic clean, sharp images pops things a little bit so there we go and that's a saved image go ahead and do that, little mr ezra okay, so now that's kind of the basic editing process to and if you have questions before I move on to doing some more fun product design stuff yes don't uh uh really quickly why do you knowthis quick or not? Do you prefer to dodging bert or to end to highlight highlights and darkened shadows the way that you do it versus dodging and burning? And if so, why are they basically the same thing? They're not the same thing it's a very good question dodge and burn now I'm gonna answer that question in a two part answer dodging burns so using this little tool dodging burn over here uses gray scale to dodge in bern so when you burn it's just adding grey to your image okay, so it tends to make things really muddy now when I'm doing quick out it's for a client and I want to highlight that lip in those eyes, do I hit my dodge tool and do it that way? Heck yes and I do it destructively right on the background image because I'm in a hurry I'm quick, I know I'm not going to be doing anything major with the image I just want to brighten things up a bit and that's done I rarely use the burn tool because it does make things muddy and I don't like that the way that I'm doing it with the new layer and soft light mona multiply mode you're you're able to use the color that's in the image to dodging burn rather than gray or white which gives the the image more depth and stays true to the color range that's in the image does that make sense so you're dodging and burning tends to be a little bit more realistic particularly when you start to grow big with the image when you start to print large except that we just feel does painting over the actual image in a color? Is it because you're putting it in multiply or in soft light mode that you're not actually painting color onto the image? Does that make sense kind of how you would lose texture if you just painted a normal mode, you start to lose texture just changing it too soft light mode not lose that texture. It helps a lot. Yes, because softly and multiply our blending modes. The layer on top is that your painting onto is blending with what's beneath which is your image, right? So what doing is seeing the pixels that are beneath in the image come through that highlight or or multiply layer? Does that follow or is if you were just painting in normal mode with the brush, you'd just be applying paint pixels right on top of the image and not allowing any thing to come through now? The lower opacity of the brush does allow things to come through, but it's not blending with what's beneath it. Does that make sense to that? Follow that's? Why? I like to use that method because it allows the image itself to come through what you're applying on top rather than just reduced capacity. Okay, the nice thing is about father shop is that you can use that, you know, soft, light, multiply technique, mask it off and or reduce the opacity of the layer to make it not quite so intense. So you have three levels of control, the opacity of the brush, the blending mode and the opacity of the layer to help you control what you're applying to your background, there makes sense. Okay, yes questions over there, kenna yeah, well, I just wanted to also give a shout out to hope lynn photography tj maxx photography we're very excited to learn the way to deal with banding on those backdrop say way easier fantastic trick to come back banding good. I'm so glad I use it all the time to come back banding on dh it starts with lighting the image right? But yeah, right, we're unisex tonight. Well, that's all right? No, I'm just going to ask about the conversations were going on and brendan murphy had asked any tricks to keeping consistency in your editing when you have to put these year and images together so that that's one question and then also are you keeping track of sort of your steps so that the next image you can kind of repeat? Yes in terms of that baby in siri's yes, great questions very important come up with an editing system. So you're doing the same thing to images all the time and again, people say maybe we'll move my clients with something unique. No, they want your style they want you to just keep doing what you're doing so that's why my editing for baby planners is so simple it's get the skin right get the tonality right get the sharpness right and the highlights and shadows and that's it don't put some fancy dancy action on there that you can't repeat later and granted if you could repeat it later great so many those actions you have to tweak the amount but the action is on the image that it's almost impossible tio duplicate that with every single image unless you're like writing down the formula as you go so my editing for all my images really is very simple and clean and timeless the newborns I do apply a vintage e type of action but I always reduce the capacity to like twenty percent twenty to thirty percent is kind of my number and I like I said I have a number that I go to all the time for that same action that I'm going to do on every single image so that they looked the same the other technique is to make sure you back up and save an organized all your files for that client so when you do go to edit the product that you know you've shot for for that year end you can go back and look at the original images that you shot for the three months or four month session then when you're going to do the six month images you can look at the two together and make sure they match so make sure those were easily accessible to you so that you can recreate it again and again and again and worse comes to worse write it down. Be diligent about taking notes and how you did it, how you shot it, and how you out of it? Okay.