Hair Wars Introduction
The cool thing about this is this is going to translate into step by step maur instructions that us photographers can have to be able to separate yourself into brand yourself respectively it's about a team effort and I really believe it does take a village to do that and all of this translates into whether you are photographing weddings, families, kids portrait's of any kind networking is vital so that's where I met lori lopez you met her a little bit earlier when she was working on our our little model out front um laurie owns wild orchid salon in california and I've known laurie for almost twenty years I think and one of the things that I love about lori here come your beauty this is my friend laurie lopez I should tell you I think she's extremely shy as you can see very demure, very quiet you know, I've known laurie for about twenty years and the thing that I've always loved about lori is that she's not afraid to try she's not afraid to do something different she doesn't want to be ...
like everybody else and I'm not saying that you have to get tattoos or anything like that and I don't have any of those and we're probably ebony and ivory over here who was different they could be but the thing that I love about working with people that are the opposite of me is that they helped me to expand my my mind to get me to just rattle my cage it's like wait a minute you saw that how and that's what I love about working with laurie the photograph that you see it's one of that I took of lori recently she lutely recently lost how much weight? One hundred twenty okay, one hundred twenty pounds and the thing that I love about lori is the fact that she is she's not a kid she's you know she's younger than I am I'm in my fifties and she's younger than me, so so but the point is it doesn't you can do this kind of collaboration doesn't have to be an older person or younger person but collaborate with somebody who's interesting and so basically lori and I started getting together to do just that I'd like you to explain to them about how the hair wars concept came about and what we did the first time we did it. We've been playing barbies for like a really long time and we just started just playing by getting some models together and bring him into the salon and bring them into bambi's place and just creating something that I could enter a contest and from there it just we started putting all her work in the salon and I just find that a lot of times people are just they're they're coming to me as a hairdresser to find out where to go and have pictures taken were the ones that the wedding people are we've been doing their hair for a while there coming does to find out who can do their wedding photography and we're the ones that are recommending all the photographers I mean, they're coming to me and asking, is she expensive? And I'm like actually I really don't know but to tell you the truth, quality photography comes first when you get married, then the hair and the makeup so you love this girl on guy really? Do I push that swan and it's a fact, so we just started playing dress up and I've been entering na ha for years and it's it's crazy because there's a lot of people like me that are creative I mean, I dream hair at night and I and I create things, but in our hair industry it's a lot like the photography and the streets were just sitting back there listening toe bambi talk about how to make more money in your industry how what makes you different from everyone else? Well, my swan is a very cutting edge salon we do charge a lot of money and I'm sure that you're not going to go get a ten dollar haircut at another salon down the street they pay us fifty five sixty dollars and they're not only painters for equality haircut there they're paying for the feeling that they get when they come into my salon, the from the customer service to the brochures, to the pictures on my wall. And they're coming to me to find out where to go. I mean, where to eat everything. So we just started playing and it's since mitt since then, it's just been it's. Been a lot of fun. Who wonderful sex get out of my body that's, right? And I think that's what it's all about us for all of us to do this, to get out of our box. And because, as I said, because when we do hear worse nobody's paid it's just one where we get together. I don't charge them for the digital files to go on their website. They can have anything they want. Any pictures that I take if they want me to make big prints. Guess what? Do I really have a problem making a big print for them? Uh, no. Hello is going in? Their salon will have my name on it. Of course I'm going to give him big pictures. So it's a way for us to be freely team members and the more that you make people. Uh I have the ability to talk about you to me, the better it is and is there anyone in the universe that talks more than your hairdresser does know I think you have a captive audience what you're doing their hair and such yeah, it's a fact I was just interviewed by a local magazine I didn't they're doing a five page spread on me and it's really about bambi it's like finally the editor was like he end up doing this homework on her to find out who's bambi control wass because it was like bambi this and bambi that I didn't really realize it till he's like we really need to focus on your salon but really it's about photography and if like bam ings that she'd come back as a fashion designer, I'd come back as a photographer because I love photography and I do have a camera I just got it for christmas, but well, I learned how to use it, you know? So that's the difference between just me getting creative and creating images and as you being a photographer it's it's so easy that paris was someone from your town that's a hairdresser that you've seen, maybe you've read about him locally and from then they might not be that great in the beginning, but you get better and better and you start to understand what each other wants even a couple days ago, I did something for bambi for this and she came out and she hated it, so I mean that things like that doesn't hurt my feelings because we didn't see the same thing and then, like five minutes later, I knew exactly where she was coming from, and I was like, now I know what she wants, you know, with all the trail on everything so turned out beautiful and, you know, I think she makes a really valid point and and this is the kind of hairstylist you want to work with, you know, I have to say my favorite motto, the with a model that I live by is humility over ability, you see, you can teach a humble person, anything they are always and those people grow, they grow, they never are, like already learned that in nineteen, sixty two and odd or need to be taught anything, I mean, we're two old gals appear older, I'm older than you are so weird, you know, these two gals have been around the block a few times, and yet we're still growing. When people ask me, baby, we know what's the best picture you ever took, I go, I don't know I had taken it yet because I look at the work I took last week and I go, oh crap I wish I'd done it differently and I hope I stay like that you know I want to be you know soup rice when I grow up I want to be lindsey adler when I grew up and I want to be so many other people because I love I'm so inspired by others that I think I could take something from them including here sallis and you know what's funny is I had never realized how much they are just like us there there are the same as we are at michael's together I think this is what's so crazy I thought that we were coming up with ideas for the models to wear you know all the different clothes they wantedto wear and so laurie tells to me that she's being I just came back to michael said oh, I did too and she goes you're not gonna believe what I got she shows me this thing that she bought and I went oh my goodness we didn't even talk to each other I opened my bag I had to take a picture of it say oh you mean this because we think so much alike and I think that's really powerful let's talk about this kind of about this kind of feature in fact you were the one who styled this this model for this petty shit this is hurt one of our hair wars pieces um this this is actually denise and I did make up for it we didn't have a makeup artist that day and I don't do make it but I think I did a pretty good job that day that's where if you don't someone doesn't show up you know as a photographer your artistic it's like get something now and you can play around and create whatever you want to create I think that right now our two thousand thirteen I think our evolution is changing and people want pictures of themselves more than they ever have in the past if you look on facebook right now facebook is everyone doing one hundred fifty dollars you get your makeup included you get your hair stylist included once you get there and then you find out that all the pictures are extra you know that's not including your pictures so he's women right now are wanted pictures of themselves with clothes on it's not like back in the day when you know the clothes were off now the closer on and they just want pretty pictures of themselves they want fifty's pinups they want they want stepped it's edgy and where do you get your inspiration from I go through magazines I'm on the internet all the time just to prepare for this session with bambi I got on facebook and typed in fantasy hair editorial hair um each type just hair and then I went in and started looking at all these people that were very, very artistic themselves that I like maybe a little bit of edge that they do I don't copy all their ideas, but I try and learn and become better and better sometimes this is even their own hair when somebody comes into your salon earlier studio you might wantto have ah back full wigs that are good wigs that maybe they have bad hair and no one's told him their their hair's fine and flat so throw a really cute wig on him and take a picture like that way telling me that for you nice that you have a universe okay, so and if you can't if you can't do that, then you bring in your hair stylist on those shoots right there so that right so they could put those wings on their head exactly and working with makeup artists, I worked with some of the top makeup artist they're all here, they've all worked for mac most most of them don't work for mac anymore and so they're all freelancing and they're like the best of the best they get in there and you you become friends with them and they understand exactly what you want to wear when you say that you wanted out of the box, we're out of that box or, you know, even out of that box so that's kind of where I am with all my my makeup artist and I bring I work with stylist to be in the salon I watch what I do because wedding here's where all the moneys that I mean, doing this stuff is a lot of fun, but wedding is where I make all my money and working with local vineyards like I'm not sure how you guys market, but we have a brand new one new, various states it's out in brentwood absolutely beautiful so I've been going out there and playing around just doing hair for some of their weddings, but they advertised for you and I was kind of looking at their photographers that they were working with and right now they don't even have any photographers that they're working with they're so new, so I'm sure that there's like vineyards in your area that are doing weddings in there it's you know, new ones all the time. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, lori could we give her a hand of applause? We could maybe ask questions too. Absolutely eso infinity photography m I was wondering how you found each other. Did you just happen? Were you searching for a hair person to hook up with? They've been trying to look for someone the same thinking but keeps running into brick walls offering files, offering money nothing seems to work to attract someone awesome toa work with so in it so it's possible uh, maybe michigan m I r is that mississippi man? I'm showing my geography I could suggest something good tg hair care dot com I've been an educator for tv. Thank you. I've been an educator for them for sixteen years, and if they go to teach you hair care dot com and put their zip code in, they will come up with belongs that are actually support songs. They're all educators, a lot of them do whatever I've done. I've done stage work, so I've worked with fantasy here on stage and so they might be able to find a tg salon. Most of them are educators, they love fantasy like ideo and maybe that's a way toe find one that's great and if maybe you guys could talk a little bit about and probably specifically you talk about what you are looking for, from the photographers that you want to work with. Like, what are you looking for in a photographer? I want them to see what I see through my lens. These are my islands and I know that you guys have your own linds, but they have to see what I see when I see it it's really hard to find a photographer that except bambi, of course, that when I say that I want to do a cartoon character that I know a lot of it's photoshopped, and I've learned so much bambi about photoshopping and all the all the different lenses that she uses and the lighting, and even though I know nothing about photography, I know what I like and what I want to see, so not to mention the fact that when you're shooting for a hair person, you got a feature, the hair you can't, you can't ignore the fact that part of the session has to do with making that hair look good. And so that means that sometimes you need to light the hair specifically, or use a reflector to show the texture of that here because that's important to them it's, not just about us and I think that's also an important feature, you know, one of the things that's been ruled that I'll just address about you, how you collaborate with other artists, the first thing that you have to be is is it does start with you and your personal appearance in the way that you look, if you're going to go speak to somebody and want them to collaborate with you, you need to be dressed the part dress like an artist don't just you know where a pair of ratty jeans and just, you know, home clothes, a pair of sweat pants or something you need to dress especially so that they see that that there's something that's going to be beneficial from them that they look at you and I go well, you know you're artistic looking, I bet you you got you got some nice things or have your portfolio with you on an ipad or something of that nature so they can see right away don't hand him your business card and say look at my website because you wanted to be proactive, so if they were me, if I wanted to work with a specific hair salon, I'd want to show them images ahead of time, which is why in fact, that's also great segue way to where I want to go to next, so thank you so much. Thank you. We're going to see more of laurie in a few minutes, okay? I've worked with a couple of different salons to create promotional tze and one of the ones I've done besides lori's salon is I've worked with the robert jensen salon and notices that says robert jensen salon and can't report to design invite you to take advantage of an exclusive photographic opportunity when you purchase a fabulous portrait session package or a special event coverage with cantrell portrait design, you will receive a one hundred dollar gift card redeemable at robert jensen salon please visit our website, blah, blah blah to view our unique imagery this's, let me show you how we use this, so basically someone like my I mean myself. We sent a fabulous letter out to a number of salon that we wanted to work with, and we said, you know what? We really believe that work, we're kindred spirits were those people that way, we think that you guys are a lot like us and that we want to collaborate, and we want to cross promote our businesses. So what we'd like to do is offer. I'll come to your studio on a day that is convenient to you, photograph all of your stylist for free. All I ask is that you put the images on your website if you like what I've done. Of course, I sent them a beautiful brochure ahead of time. I sent them this piece it's a trifled so that when you first opened it, you see that beautiful face, and then it has the information on the inside right here has my bio on the back, they get this beautiful trifle. They get this beautiful letter, by the way, which for anyone who purchases the download, they get to have that letter for free it's a really cool piece on dh, then what they'll do then so that just tells him who I am, and then basically what we did was I picked a day and went to the salon, and I photographed all of their silence. So I got to know all of them. They got to meet me and see my personality and enjoy. We enjoyed the experience together. The second thing we did is we created a special event around viewing the pictures so that when they saw the pictures that I shot of them, it got them excited. So they loved the pictures that I took of them. And I said, well, here's, the next step, which is the brochure you just saw this this piece that you see right here, if you like, what I've done for you, you like your headshot, here's, what I'd like to do, I'd love to photograph some of your clients, so if you will give my brochure to your client and they come to my studio and they purchase a portrait session with me, then I in turn, will call your salon and I will purchase in their name a gift card for one hundred dollars. Now, what does that do? It takes the client from their door to my door and from my door where back to them. So that it's a win win for both of us now, my clients, when I bring in a portrait session, we have a really nice the ratio of people who purchased a substantial amount of product so it's a very it's a very profitable profitable endeavor it's a way to expand your business very very quickly I've done it with four salons now and it works great here's the one thing you've got to be careful of um be careful of the salons that you choose because if you have if you choose a salon that caters to a very much an older clientele like an elderly older clientele yes, what they don't have any a lot of kids to be able to photograph so it doesn't you don't generate as much business you want to salon that has a lot of younger clients that's why salons like lorries are great the changes salon in walnut creek is a great one as well because these salons they cater to a nice young the middle class in the middle mom the ones that are like between twenty five and forty that is that that's my favorite demographic for getting lots of family porch it's done so that's what that's one of the steps so then once I've done once I've done their their photographs then then the next step after that is is we say, hey look, we'd like to work with some of your stylist and we want to do a hair worse project like we do with laurie and so basically what we're doing okay this is your thing. You could do anything you want, give me your theme and then we're going to collaborate on some projects together so they came in, and the hairstylist that you're going to meet this afternoon are some of the stylist I've worked with before from our here wars project. They came into the studio they brought, we've brought models and collaborate together. They created their wonderful hair looks that they've always wanted to do. I got to play in photography and do what I wanted, and then we had a gallery showing in the salon. We did that with the change of salon in walnut creek, and I'm telling you it was phenomenal. I made sixty inch portrait like this. This is one of the court. This is one of the pictures from one of the shoot that I did for them. It's a large portrait like you see on the wall. We framed each piece and we hung them in the wall in the studio for a week and then once we hung them in the studio the friday night of that week. We had a gallery event where we had a charity event and so that all of the people had to pay to come to the event and then all of the proceeds were donated to the food bank or one of the other charities that we designated ahead of time so it's a terrific way to get your name out there if you're a new photographer this is a a fabulous way to make a name fast so you don't have to be in business for years and years and years this is another one of the photographs that I did for the for this att the studio this little girl it was one of our models on guy will tell you it's really important to work with people who are have a humble spirit I'll tell you a little story we had a couple of hair stylist that we're actually going to work with us on this project I mean can you imagine you have the opportunity to have your work shown in an international audience around the world and we required that they would come in for a pre shoot so that we could see what they were going to do and lawrie is a perfect example you know sometimes when you see something I'm like okay, well I have to be a little careful of this I don't want I want this is the look I'm going for she meeting oh no problem ma'am and she changed it made amazing. Well, some not everybody is like some people are like that. They has everything's all about them. And what they failed to understand is that humility over ability, it's not what you know it's, who you know, because who you know we'll tell everybody else about who you are and how special you are, it's, not always about your art and about well, I'm the world famous for baby control it's not about that that's secondary it's about who you know about getting yourself in front of people that can benefit you and and you can benefit them and making it a cross promoting way that benefits everybody. This is just another one of the images I shot for them, and then here is the flyer we did for the evening session that I did for the robert jensen salon says join us for an evening of food fundraising, photographic art and fun to help us to celebrate our twenty seventh year. So we basically did this fundraiser for them all the proceeds spent into the benefitted the food bank, and I'll be talking to you more about cross promoting with and share with charities and mind I love working in the charity arena, I think it's a terrific thing and it's working with the grassroots of people in our own community um then and with one of the uh the events that I did we promoted are my boudoir work. So at one of the hair the hair salons when I did my gallery evening I showed beautiful, elegant boudoir work and then I gave out this beautiful card and when I print my cards I make sure that I print them on beautiful stock they're not on cheap photographic paper that's just you know, chief, I wanted to look good and they got feel good because people who have disposable income that want to spend it they want it they want to feel that it feels good oh, another place to go for a cross promoting here's a biggie med spas do you know what a med spot is? Ah med spa is a spot that they do bo tox injections and they dio facials and rest elin and stuff like that. That is a huge market for us because women that are interested in enough in themselves to go have bo talks or to go in and have a face well done or have a massage, that kind of thing they first of all have disposable income and they are interested in the way they look. So I've crossed promoted very successfully with a number of mets pause one of them in walnut creek my very favorite is the encore med spa and I photographed the owners children and it's fantastic because I have my boudoir books in her salon I will give her gift cards during the year say you know what I wanted teo give you a couple of gift cards for your favorite clients maybe they've spent ten thousand dollars on bo talks that year? Well guess what? They get a free gift card from the get a gift card from me too from the salon and send the salon's name and that way it brings that client from their door to my door and guess what? They are definitely interested in the way they look and they'll come in and spend a nice chunk of change on your services such a really powerful successful way to get noticed here is one of the pictures that I shot for robert jensen and um I think that's where we're gonna end today so here we'll stop right there. So do we have any questions about this? Uh let's go with sailor girlie who's wondering what's the best way to approach the hair and makeup artist you just walk into a salon and ask them if they're interested in collaborating or if they needed help with their promo or competition? Great question really great question what would I have done? The first thing we did is we sent out this beautiful brochure the one you just saw the one with the pretty girls face on it we sent that in a beautifully packaged way I were these gorgeous envelopes that were that were very tactile lovely, lovely tactile pieces and we sent them out to some of the salons in the area just, you know, sent them out and then we did a follow up phone call and just said, did you receive in the mail are are beautiful packet of information on my company and there was no yes, I mean to call you about that and then say, you know we'd love to come in and I'd love to talk to you further about collaborating with you and we'd love to come in and do head shots. That's what I did with the changes salon in walnut creek changes salon in walnut creek has sixty people. They have sixty employees working for them it's a huge salon that's a huge do you realize how many clients a salon has that has six, two people working for them that's a lot of potential clients for me and so we met in starbucks and walnut creek and I talked to the owner about my vision and what we wanted to do. I made sure that that day that I dressed for success, I made sure that I dressed as any professional would said that she would feel comfortable and that she would be peer to peers should be talking to someone that she would feel comfortable with um, during that experience, I talked to her about some of the other things that we like to do is faras across promoting? We talked about doing an evening charity event she worked with the cancer support center in walnut creek, so we'd love to be involved in doing what we can to help them and in fact, what we've done since then we have worked with the cancer support center in walnut creek there a real grassroots little, um, uh, support center that helps the families of cancer victims, cancer, people, their suffering from cancer and so it's a really great way to help real people that are in our town. And so we've been able to cross promote now with that organization and so that's how we started, so the first step was doing a mailer and then following up on that mailer, but make sure you need to make sure that you're packaging and your material is incredible and if you're going to approach a hair salon, you'd better make sure that you have pictures of people would have really great hair going on. So you gotta collaborate that's why we did this whole thing this morning with their wars do you think there's just there's just it's just nice taking pretty pictures? I'm sorry people it's not about taking pretty pictures, so what do I do with those pictures? What am I going to do with them? So this afternoon we have these gals who are wearing crazy air like one of us going has this ice cream cone on her head and all kinds of nutty stuff you think that might be something that another hair stylist might find intriguing? Do you think that another hairstylist might look at that brochure and not immediately throw it into the circular file cabinet? So am I going to use full length photographs no on the news probably beautiful head shots from here up, first of all, for the promo piece that I would send to a hair salon, I'm going to make sure that those pictures are wacky and interesting so that I grabbed their attention because I know here stalin are one of us, they're like us, they like things that are a bit kind of quirky and fun and then uh and then well, we send that out and that makes it pretty simple, it's it's it's a great marketing tool, I'll tell you, I can't even imagine, um not doing it and it is very, very effective. Can we just have a quick follow up miss cannon? You're talking about finding people with very good hair? So where do you find the models for your new marketing pieces? If you don't know anyone and just starting to do to do this great question what I would do first of all, if I were young woman, I would go sit in the shopping mall with business cards and find people that are young, that have that have the look that you're going for, someone I'd look for some people that are cute, and I was so hey, I'm looking for some folks for some marketing pieces are, you know, to create a flyer, make sure that they are of legal age. Otherwise you got to get mom involved in its pain so it's not a pain, but, you know, you want to make sure that they're legal age. If I have your friends, do you have any, any little, any friends that air that have really cute, you know, fun hair that she can work with that that's? Another way to do it is to work with folks like that. If I were a man, I'd make sure I had a female assistant go. If you're going to do them all saying, make sure you have a young lady do it. I would not do that as a man, I would not go approach some young woman at a mall. If I were a guy, I would want my young wife, my cute little wife, are my my little girl friend, who is very professional looking so that they would feel safe and comfortable doing that for us so that's what I would probably do there are so many different ways that you can do it friends and talk to your friends and ask them other photographers collaborate together I mean that's a great resource is collaborating with other photographers is saying hey look we want to do this really fun thing can be really fun friends we could photograph let's do it all a za group and then make sure that you don't all photographed the same model because obviously you're not gonna be able to put them all on your worship was the stuff right? But but collaborate together and I think that there's there's always a win win in that all right fantastic infinity photography from michigan should it be important too? It should be important to have that printed branding from the get go so talking about the brochures and such question is I worry that my identity is very much in flux right now I don't know what I wanted to look like yet should I wait don't wait get something now that's printed women are tactile creatures you know they still want to touch something and hold it so if you are in doubt then you know what here's the problem that'll happen with that is that we're also the biggest procrastinators in the entire universe are we not I'm sorry we're procrastinators so what'll happen is you'll go buy another lens and you'll forget all about the fact that you needed some beautiful promo pieces. Oh, yeah, but I can always get that I really need this lens now, when in reality you need to get the promo pieces now, hire somebody, go down and find somebody go interview people that do graphic design, interview them and say, hey, I'd like to have you, I'd like to interview you see what they do and see if they have the look that you're looking for, bite the bullet and pay somebody to do that, right? It's your foundation, it really is the foundation. Without that, how in the world can you go to talk to somebody about spending lots of money on your beautiful services when you're getting a piece of copy paper with the pricing on it? So I I really feel finished just just to keep in mind that you can always change that's, right? And if you order small amounts of brochures that you can like from simply color are simply canvas, you can order twenty five at a time or fifty at a time and then tweak it a little bit, but but sure, start with something that looks professional to begin with and then you'll find. I mean, I can tell you, my my brand has changed over the years. I'm muchmore understated than I was five years ago. My logo even has changed in the last five years, so I think that it can be, you know, you can change don't feel like you can't, but if you don't do it now, then you're never going to do it because you're gonna procrastinate because you want to be able to make your mind up. Um, isabelle espinosa alive. He is wondering when you do the play. Barbie shoots. How many files do you give to the models? How bigger those files? And is that their only compensation? Um, yes, that is general, they're only compensation. In fact, all of our models here for this program are you are here just to do this for us pro bono. They're doing it for us because they just like us and I photographed their weddings and I would give them anything they want if they want. If they want a, um a big print, I'll make a print for them because I want them to enjoy that experience and needs to be something in it for them. I'm going to give them a big print I want them to have a print if possible esso and then I'll make smaller prints for their facebook page if they'd like so I'm not going to sit and hold there they're pictures hostage because I want them to want those pictures to be I want them to feel good about me sharing those and use them in my brochures and stuff and how can I do that so look at me I'm all great and then be stingy with the model I mean really I mean so what just keep being nice to him and let him have because they're going tol tell all their friends and then you'll get little business comes around because what goes around does come around and if your cheap they're goingto everybody's gonna hear about it and you're not going to get the business and make sure that you give them the pictures that they need to have I think that's really important and sometimes I've fallen down on that myself and giving people things like laurie right now I owe her pictures for her magazine and that she's going out so did that answer question so a question from stephanie lauren photography and says uh more questions about hair wars which I am so excited for you know what I have to salons that I have deep connections with should I only choose one for doing hair wars? No why would you do that? No, I think you should spare the love, asuka. See? I mean, laurie is she's my oldest and dearest, you know, salon and that's who I would refer in a new york minute. I go that's. Why I go to have my hair done. But I do it for other salons in the area. I do work with other salons. I should say in the community because I think that there's room for for a variety and I want to be able to make to make different kinds of connections. And her salon is a completely different part of the area. The bay area than like changes in walnut creek. I mean she's literally west west lorry like twenty minutes west. And this is like twenty minutes east. So it's. Not like they're like right next door to each so I would not work to salons are like right next door. I don't think that's right. Oh, that's. Good let's. See, marie claire can best be explained how the collaboration works with this laundry. Did you photograph all the stylist on the same day? And where? Well, some I would say most of the time we photograph them all on site on their their location. Anywhere you like? Well, like I like in lorry salon I brought in my studio lighting and we photographed the silence in the salon and we did a variety of fun crazy stuff we kind of did a mini hair wars with the silence because laurie stop her studio is very contemporary it's very you know, you can tell by looking at her she's not going to be sitting there doing old lady here. You know what, she's not gonna be photographing blue hair or anything like that? She's the girl who does all the cool stuff. Um, so, um, what was I even going with that I can from sorry it's swell for me. Okay, so yeah, you generally do it at their salon and generally I try to find a location in their salon that's very simple. I like natural light, so I'll find a blank wall prefer I only need a small space. I don't use backgrounds generally because I want to make it very simple. And I the other thing too is I find that if I can find just a blank wall with a nice light source, sometimes we'll even go outside with the stylist and photograph them outside of their salon so you don't have to have a huge environment you don't have to have a big studio all I need is a wall that's no bigger than this because for instance, if I'm just doing head shots for the stylist could I not do it right here? I mean, look at the light coming in I can feel it bouncing off my face right here and yet I have a neutral background behind me don't I? So you have to learn to view to see the pictures that are here and not always out here I find that if you squint that it makes it easy to kind of kind of like you don't start seeing everything around like I wouldn't I don't need a humongous well I need that much space just enough for a head keep him away from the wall have I want to have if possible I like natural light because it makes people feel a little bit more comfortable um and the other thing too is I look outside and I'll say okay, where is the sun and out here the sun is bouncing off this building right outside of this this my space right here and it's got a beautiful nice normal skin tone kind of color to it that bounce light is coming right here on my face so I've got a great source for natural light without any effort whatsoever I mean, you know, I can feel the light on my face or can you see it okay, so does that help all right, bambi one more question before we go to break and then go on to the hair ward shooting and this one is from chris hanlin who says I totally agree with everything that you are saying about the boutique or marketing to the affluent the problem for most people is the confidence that they have to value to charge those rates what would you say to those of us out here who are looking to increase that confidence? Great question do you honestly think I'm confident no, I'm not I'm not in the least bit confident I have learned to fake it I e sorry there's just so many one liners like it happened right now you know something's going to come back and they're gonna totally mate that's a quote of the day right? Yeah um she was whereas I go here I actually no I have learned I've learned that if you're not if you don't if you don't behave so you're confident how in the world can you get anybody to do anything? So I've learned to if I want somebody to feel that I'm confident I've gotta exude that call it bakery if you will I don't call it bakery I don't believe that I believe that it's anticipated confidence I don't have it yet but I know I can get it so and I believe that if I want somebody to do something here's my alternative okay I'm not confident I and I have to tell you I'm one of them I'm actually inside of my guts the whole time I'm doing a program or I'm teaching or I'm photographing I'm thinking, oh, I hope to god this goes ok, I hope I take a good picture today because I've never taken a good picture in my life yet I haven't I look at every single picture that I take and I go oh, if I'd only done this and I'm extremely critical of what I've done I never ever read press on myself, I don't watch myself, I will have a very difficult time watching this because I don't see I just don't see myself like that, but I've learned that if that transfers to a subject it's over, I cannot allow that the ramifications of of not behaving confidently with them are two great, because then it's like this is like, okay, well, um uh, could you tilt your head like this? Is it okay? Or you could have put you in this I want to wrap you in a a window screen. Is that all right? I mean, not look all that good, but never with that be okay and oh, it's all right, you don't have to do it, I know, you know, and our beat yourself up oh, I wish I don't like that you know I don't do that I just I just say you know what? Okay it's all right, we're gonna be fine we've got to try this come on, I'm gonna wrap you up in window screen yes, I know it's going to be you're going to think I'm nuts it's all right, you won't be the first person that called me crazy right? And I go but you gotta let me try it's going to be great right? And I'll start shaking my head accordingly so you see, do you notice how my my personal enthusiasm goes up when I want to do something when I behave that I find that if I tell if I act enthusiastically with you you will do whatever I want you to do, which and john was perfect example of that was in the earlier so I would say that you have to be just willing to suck it down suck down because you're never going to be in my opinion I'm never confident I'm never I mean, I've been shooting for thirty years and every time I see a picture that I took I go oh, wow okay, you know, it's it's just not for me it's not gonna be that way, but I use that as a tool for growth see, I think that when you're if you start feeling like you own the world, baby, I'm just like I got it going on right, then, where's there to go, you know, there's nowhere to go, because you already think you already own the whole universe, and I'm not there yet. Not I want to be there. You know, I just think it's, the right up the hill.