Mock Pre-Wedding Consultation
We have not rehearsed this at all and I didn't rehearse it on purpose because I wanted the answers to be very spontaneous and I have to tell you, when I photographed lauren in vince's wedding, these two kids are some of my very favorite people I've known lauren first of all since she was like fifteen years old and one of the things that I love about her is the fact she absolutely loves photography it's very important to her and s o and I just met vince this past teo so now what we're gonna do is we're gonna pretend that this is an interview before their wedding and that I've already given in my pricing so basically they're coming into my studio ideally if I have a choice, I won't sit in this chair I'll sit here during my initial interview I'm gonna move these out of the way just so you can see where I would sit and then I'll tell you why I would sit here I'm not going to sit here during the interview just for the sake of the video cameras okay, now I'm gonna I would sit here just like ...
this why am I doing that? Why would I sit here? What was that? You're closer in lower that's, right? You see in this chair you see we're about the same height in fact I'm a little higher than them why is it important for me to be a little lower than them make them feel like they're in control? It does, it makes the client feel like they're in control now, who's actually really in control. You don't know that that's, right? And so I prefer to get a little bit lower and lower, and and I think this is especially for men if you're dealing with tiny brides and such, I think it's important for you to find a little bit of a lower plane, because if you get a little lower plane, you're going to make that person feel more comfortable and more more apt to be comfortable in your presence think about this if you're working with children and you're standing way up above them, how do they feel that's? Right? So the same thought processes that's exactly why I didn't develop this kind of thought process in dealing with my clients, and I want to get a little lower because I keep thinking it's a lot like working with children and isn't funny now you're seeing how working with brides is a lot like working with children again, you see how again, there are so many similarities now you notice where the albums are there right here, why are they here as opposed to sitting on their lap right now? Yes, you could have the conversation and you have their attention and they have your attention first and then when you feel like it's the right time you've got that's right? But that's not the only reason the other reason that I want to be in control is that I need to know more about them before I start showing them albums you see what happens let me get in we demonstrate that okay? Lauren invents I'm so excited about your wedding lauren tell me a little bit about your way first of all I want to know about your gown uh my gowns really simple and elegant lace I love vintage I wanted to be you know, kind of that classic but relaxed feel elegant o I c that sounds really interesting and what your bridesmaids gonna wear my bridesmaids were wearing dark burgundy dress again very simple just floor length oh, wow, that sounds really fun now are there she was going to match and everything um kind of ok. I mean, I'm not too picky about matching justus long as ideas somewhat cohesive but I do like a little bit of you know cem color thrown in there okay? And vince, what are your concerns in hiring a photographer money? Yes. You know, I can really relate with that, you know, my family and I are on a budget too, so I can really appreciate that you know, one of the greatest benefits to hiring a photographer is that, you know, they're the one person that you're what he could spend thousands of dollars on your dress and on the food and no doubt you guys have realised that weddings are actually expensive even if you really are if you're pretty careful about your money, aren't they? And yet the one thing you have afterwards is great pictures if you if you make that decision well, which is why I'm really glad that you've come to see me. So, lauren, if you had, if you could say what would make you the most happy when it came to photography, when you if you open the book and say this'll be my perfect wedding, what would it be? Do you mean like what would the style b in the photography? What would you like to see in your photo? Nothing style, but what would you like to see in your pictures to make you feel like all this is perfect? I cannot would like to see a lot of intimate moments like I want to see things, not everything post I want to see things that are like hidden, stolen moments, you know what I mean? Like where you capture something really beautiful and intimate between me and him and between my friends where it feels really like you're there oh not like I'm looking at a photograph excellent. Okay now what information did they give us and was there anything valuable in that what like what she was talking about she doesn't want just all posed photos that she wants somewhere you're capturing moments with her interacting with her husband and also um with the interaction between the two of them and their family and friends okay and what else she wants something romantic and simple you know just by what she was saying um invented she liked the idea of vintage so okay it's the intimate she said it's been a lot so she she wants that romantic feel okay and now let's ss tell me about the ceremony the ceremony is going to be outdoors um and it's just going to be about seventy of us in an outdoor courtyard really simple ceremony someones going to play the guitar and it's going to be a short ceremony too oh fantastic. Okay now with that in mind that information which album what kind of album would be would be what I would not want to show this client one with a lot of posed photographs or one with a huge wedding with tons of guests and what else? How about a church wedding oh yeah you see like you see her wearing the big poofy ball gown should not be that big poofy ballgown kind of girl she is something that it's gonna be elegant but it's gonna be a little bit more I would say on the beachy side not maybe not a beach wedding but it is a garden wedding so those are the kinds of things I'm really paying attention to now who did all the talk who did most of the talking they didn't why is that? Why is that so you get more information and you get to know her better that's true but but why else what kind of questions did I ask her? Not yes and no questions you asked her leading questions that would get a story out of her that's right? You see my my goal is to ask viewpoint questions or feeling questions how do you feel about this or that? You know what do your how do you see what your concerns you see? I want to throw the ball to them and then have them throw that ball back to me and if you just say uh do you want all photo journalism at your wedding? Do you even know what that were made? Yeah don't use big words around so I don't know because you're just like me we're both blond, huh? That's right that's why we get along with so these are the kinds of things that I would in my initial interview that I'm I would talk to them about now let's talk about your engagement session for a moment because I did they're engaged recession you're going to see some of their engagement section their engagement images in a moment so what I'd like to do is is tell me a little bit about how you would love to see what would you love to see during an engagement session? Um I want to see something I feel like all the engagement sessions are always the same the photos have always seemed seen are always kind of the same idea and concept I want something a little more whimsical and magical I feel like it could be a little bit more fun and then engagement session more than you can do it a wedding a little bit more out there and romantic and whimsical and I'd like it outside like my wedding and then tell me about the two of you what do you do on your personal time? What kind of things do you like to do together we like to read read poetry and read I'd classical literature people we dry together okay awesome okay now boy oh boy did they give me but you know what's really amazing is do you see how that's you can? You can look at them in awe it makes sense doesn't it say doesn't fit their personnel as you can look at the two of them now and you can kind of see how that that would be it is right on point and so it all falls together. It really helps you to be able to photograph on their wedding date so much more about who they are, in fact, that's exactly what I did. I sent lauren and email before her before we did her engagement session, and I said, tell me what, you guys like to do it? She said, we like to read and we liketo right, and we write poetry, um, and vince likes to draw and in fact, that's why I bought this couch. I bought this couch at a consignment store because I pictured in my mind, vince and lauren out by the in this beautiful grassy area by a lake with vince drawing or they have them reading together, and so I thought, this would be a great way to tell a story you say, the more comprehensive a story that you can tell not on ly do you get great photographs for yourself for your portfolio? But can you imagine once they've seen the engagement, those engagement pictures, they're showing everybody and guess what every bride knows other brides. Does that make sense? Do we have questions that people are asking about this? People are absolutely loving it there, it's very informative with multiple ours, they're loving, watching it. Okay, great. Do we have any questions for many of them? Um that they would like me to answer with my humble well, one question from dd dd nine six seven do you have a sample sample albums from all of your packages during these client meetings, including the lower priced items from the less expensive packages? Yes, yes, we do. I will tell you that my my approach because well, first off it's really quite easy when you only have three coverage is good, better best it's really quite easy. You'd only need, like, three different style. So it's not it's, not it's, not a difficult thing to do. I will tell you this too when it comes to albums, we offer our clients a variety of different books they get to choose the style of book that they'd like to have and we don't charge extra for it. So in other words, if they want a really you know, like a book like this first one that's really beat it and that's very fancy. If they want that kind of a look, they can have this and I don't charge them extra four if they want something that's a bit more understated like this one, then they can have that as well at no extra cost is what I try to do is I build all the yeses into my collections, I want all the yeses in my collections so that when they look at their pictures that they're that they're and they say, oh, but could I have this? I go, absolutely he does that so nice to be able to do that. Um, and then if there is something that I can't do that, what do I say? That's, right? I will say, I wish I could and so after that, once I've talked with him a little bit, probably five minutes into the interview, then I'm gonna take on album a cz you would see here and I would open it to the first page, and I'm in control of those pages, and I'm going to tell the basically a story on how I like to start early when my bride is getting ready. I also want to be there when the groom is getting dressed, and my goal is to create very much a story of your wedding day. My goal, vince for you is that you are gonna love having your photograph taken and that you don't feel uncomfortable that's one of the reasons that I do the engagement session because I want you to look at your photographs and say, hey, bambi, you caught my smile and not feel like you're you're you're being made to do tricks like a pony which is yeah trust me I felt a draft you my friend so and then I will flip from page to page through the album and as I do I tell them the story of that of the event and how I how I try to work with the two of them as a couple and as I go through I'll ask them how do you feel about such and such you know is it important to the two of you tio not see each other before the wedding and if not do you feel are you okay seeing one another ahead of time um yeah I want to have I want to have that moment which is him and I oh great so now that's an interesting question to ask well how do you feel would you you know is it important for you to be you know, to have her walk down that islands here for the first time I never ever dictate what they have to do I think that's wrong as I said you know I really embrace who they are I'm not I don't believe in being the police of my clients and I know you have to do it my way I just don't believe in that I think first of all I can do my job no matter what they say no matter what they do because that's what a trained professional does and also that's if you love people then you're gonna love what they want because it's what they want and you like any parent with their children you know, appearance we obviously want their kids to do something constructive but you don't try to make them do exactly what you do because they don't they're not gonna do it anyway, right? So after I shown them a couple of different albums, then we'll talk a bit more we'll talk more about prices and I'll show them my pricing information now did you notice I will talk about the prices in my brochure? Brother, did you notice that I kept hold of that book and I'm the one who is in control of that why? Because if they're looking at the photos, they're no longer engaged in the process with you there they're kind of engaged just in the photo album here's what happens if you just hand the book over to them is that when they when they get there when they start looking at, then they start communicating together and then she starts looking at the flowers like these flowers and it's like, hello squirrel, you know, they totally get get sidetracked and so I wouldn't want that kind of an experience I want them to really enjoy that wonderful moment I think that's really, really horton tw um and now with that said, um is michael around can you just go get my white album here in the that's in the other room would you mind yes do they ever get to touch album like do you ever handed to him yeah I mean are you after me roll me when I'm done with them I will set the books right here if they want to look at that I'm not gonna go oh, no you can't not by yourself you know, my goal is to pretty much is to keep this is to keep the relationship is to keep the relationship very much about us together now I'm going to show you guys something very special vince hasn't seen this this is their wedding album. This is what it looks like this's what it's gonna look like now there book hasn't come in this is just my sample book obviously I got before they did but here you go e I want you to look at vince's face as he leads they look through their book and I'm just I want to share this moment with you and then when they go and leave in just a second I'm gonna show you their book online I mean on the computer though the color is beautiful engagement photos first so my goal is with the wedding album I tried to start my wedding albums with some of the engagement session if it's one that is important to the client as I mentioned, my goal is to say yes as many times as I can I give them in their wedding album a group of pages toe work with some others all say you know it's a thirty page album or a forty page book something of that nature and then once I've done that I will when I designed their album I'm going to design it the way that I honestly feel tells the best story so that book might end up having forty pages or more sometimes they're doubled their double volumes and then once I've done that I want to show them that but I do that design before a soon as they get their proofs I'm ready designed their book because I want to start that process going I don't wait for them to return pictures to me and I don't building our base in albums design upon a stack of photographs that they hand back to me and I think that's important because if it's just about a stack of pictures there's no story so I choose to the way that I personally prefer to do business is I want to have all the pictures at my disposal I'll do a design based upon those images I'll tell the best story I can and then also hey kids I got crazy I've designed your book it's online if you want to look at it tell me what your thoughts are if you like the way I've designed it, this book has forty pages of your album that you've contractors for his thirty the additional pages are x amount of dollars if you don't then just let me know and we'll just take out whatever pages you'd like me to so it gives me the opportunity to do an upsell if I want to but it's not I feel like I'm not high pressuring them also very importantly, my wedding coverages are paid in full before the wedding day I am paid in full why do you think that's the case? Well that's true money paid as many forgot that's right money spent us you listen because money spent is money forgot and so but also it's because nobody has any money after the wedding so if you wait until after the wedding to collect your your payment you are in trouble because you're gonna be you're gonna have a hard time generally getting that s o I prefer to get paid in full ahead of time and you know why I can do that? Because it's my business and I can dictate my company policy and so many times photographers we allow other people to dictate our policy they'll say well, you know I don't want to pay for that I don't want to pay you you know up front I want to pay when I see the product I'm going well, then, don't hire me because I know this is my company policy. I wish I could let you pay after the fact that I can't, so I wish I could is the best the best words in the entire english language for helping you, teo, to be able t get get somewhere with her clients. So you like it? Amazing, it's, beautiful, you'll notice in my albums, I don't put hundreds and hundreds of pictures in them because I don't want it to look like a yearbook. I want it to look like this beautiful story of their wedding. I find that if you put too many pictures in an album, they start blending together and they don't speak. They don't have their own voice. And so my goal is to have each one of those page spreads a double page spread have its own voice and I think that's important. Do we have questions? That's beautiful? Yes, at what point do you let the potential clients see the prices? Is it when the over the phone? Great question no, I give them a price list, I'll send it to him over the all send that if they asked me for one over the internet, I'll send it to them that way I'll give it to them, I give them out freely at the at the shows police photographers do not pretend to be brides and call me or email me and ask me for my pricing I ate that that your taste me to death and I'm not I'm not embarrassed about my pricing I'm actually quite proud of it I want them to know what I charge my pet peeve our people and companies that try teo try tio confuse you and try to like pull that on you I hate it you know it's really notorious for that our fitness companies you know you can try to say you want to do it, join a fitness club and then you say, well, how much is it to join or how much is might produce a month and they go well, if you come in, we'll talk about it and they won't tell you over the phone and I hate that I find that insulting so I prefer you know let's just be honest what are my prices? My prices are what they are and I occasionally will have somebody who will say to me I'm sorry but your prices are so high and what do I say back to them? I go thank you so much you know what? And have you ever given thought that maybe it's in your best interest to pay more to hire me oh uh do you realize what I just said would I just say I said it's in the client's best interest to pay mohr to hire me. How is that possible? How is that possible? Well, besides that, we all know that I think about it. Think about it, but you're also educating them to value what you do and the product you create. Yeah, but it's more than that, you see, I believe it is in the client's best interest to pay more because think about this. If your photographer is very poorly paid to show up at your wedding let's say you're just a shooting burn and you're just gonna you're paying them five hundred dollars for a thousand dollars. And I mean, they're paying you whatever the case is, and you have the flu that day. What do you think their chances are having you actually show up if you're sick now, if somebody's paying you eight thousand ten thousand, five thousand or whatever and they have a flu that day? Guess what? What do you think? The chances of them showing up are there going to be there? Or they're going to make sure that that event discovered you are well covered in that regard? You have safety it's again, it goes back to the tiffany's analogy. The recent tiffany's is still in business in new york city when the when the diamond district of new york city is two blocks down the street, why would anybody buy it? Tiffany's? Because there are times in your life when it makes you feel secure to pay more, you feel safe and secure, and there's times, when we want to feel secure and it's like a mom, when she has her daughter who's getting married, she doesn't, you know that's a time when it's appropriate and it's okay to spend money on certain things, and, of course, we all have a budget. My goal is to make it as budget friendly as I can, and so what we do is we break it up into three payments, at least so that it makes it more affordable for them. So the first payment, the first third, is when they contract for me to shoot the event. The second, third is do ninety days before the wedding, and then the remaining balances the week before the the wedding, of course, we take all the credit cards, and that way, at least, that client has the ability, and then, if they want to send payments monthly, they could do so. I have. I've had a number of clients over the years that have done just that, and that's important to me to be to be a friend to them I want to be able to make it affordable for them but so many times since the tartars will go they'll say, well, you know if I can afford that and we'll go and we give in and we go ok, well I'll give you a deal my question to that or my comment to that is what about that other little couple like these kids right here that are you know they're working their booties off and then they sweat they blood, sweat and tears and they have to they have to really sacrifice to afford to pay me and I just gave someone so a fifty percent discount or a thirty percent discount and these poor little kids had to pay full price see how unfair that isthe yeah it's kind of yeah it's kind of like being on an airline ever been on a plane and you're sitting there and you had to pay like twelve hundred dollars for your seat and the person next you paid like like one hundred twenty nine dollars doesn't that bug you? You know it just irritates me. So I always say when somebody asked me for a discount, this is exactly what I say thank you that's the first thing I say and actually right after that I say, do you absolutely I'm happy to give you a discount but only if you let me work half as hard. I love the one liner, you know that's great bambi, because that's what people were asking online was okay, so what? What if they come back to you? Why can't you and that's exactly what I say go, you know and that's exactly what I tell them if they say, well, why can't you it's not a candy it's a won't, and the reason I won't is that it shows such disrespect toe all of those other people that worked their hearts out. Tio hire my services. Can you imagine how they would feel that would be so disrespectful to them and it's unkind? It really is unkind and I don't think it's in anyone's best interest. So I always just say, you know what the great thing is and I always turn negatives in deposit. I really believe that that's what we need to do is just I mean, you know, I'm not a person sits with rose colored glasses on. I have bad days like everybody else and trust me, these crew member since testified of that, but at the same time you know there's. Always ways to handle things, and I always say, you know, what if it's, if it's sounds bad, find a way to turn it into something good, and so if somebody says, oh, gosh, you're twice as much or three times as much a so and so, and this actually has happened to me, I had ah, young lady, email me on she asked me for my pricing, I sent it over the internet to her, and she sent me back an email, she said, oh, baby, she said, I would love to hire you, but sure, you're twice as much as this other photographer, he's and he's willing to give me three wedding albums and two parent albums, and mine was just gonna give her one her war one book and he's going to give me all the digital files, and I just sent her a little email, and I just said, you know, that's so wonderful that that photographers willing to give you all of those different albums, I just have one question. What if you don't like any of the pictures? I think about it doesn't really matter if they give you twenty five albums and twelve thousand pictures, if you don't like him, so it's what's on the paper that counts that's, why that's so important, and so I sent that to her senator that he built her and she and she will be back, she said, oh my goodness, she says, you know what? You're absolutely right and I am in love with your pictures and I love photography you know what I'd like to come in for an interview? I mean, her budget was going to be at the elks lodge in walnut creek, so it was not it was a blue collar wedding and that's why I believe in not being the person police, I never look at somebody and say, you can't afford to hire me, and so I'm not gonna you know, I'm not I don't freak qualify I don't believe in that because I believe anyone can afford to pay for really high quality photography and so she she came in for an interview and the thing that blew me away is she ended up choosing my middle coverage, not the one on the bottom that was still twice as much as her other but our but she was considering, so she hired me. How hard do you think I worked at her wedding? I worked harder than any any wedding I ever shot except for lawrence, because I knew I knew that it was so that this is what she spent her entire wedding budget on she spent the most on her wedding budget on my services and it made me really appreciate that person really appreciates photography, and so I always believe that anybody could afford me and that's when I look at people go, come on in. I don't care whether you're having your wedding where it's at some of my best clients had been clients that, you know, weren't you know weren't really fluent in such like that. So lauren and vincent's wedding album it started with a session that I did of the two of them as a sit down with the down the beach, we literally carry this couch are not we there's? No, we in this actually was my entire my staff, michael and colin, and one of the great things, as I mentioned about going that consignment shopping, is that when you get down to the beach with a couch like this, if something happens and it gets wet or it gets a little trash that falls out of the back of a pickup truck, then you actually don't have to worry too much it's not like you have a huge investment, and I literally almost broke my neck on this shoot in a great way, so I'm going to do a variety of images you'll notice that the light in this picture is coming from behind. Bring my step ladder with me when I do an engagement session because sometimes ah great way to get rid of distracting backgrounds is to get a higher camera angle not only that when the sun is really low in the sky you get lens flare in and it could be a bit of a distraction you'll probably notice by the way what she has on from wonder where that came from that's right when lauren came into my studio I had time I was in my little princess mode where I make my little tool skirts and so I asked her if she would let me in make that little dress for her and so she wore that for part of the session because remember she said she was very romantic so in my mind I kept visioning her invents sitting on this couch like you see here so I did some of the images of them with her big beautiful little romantic dress on and then she changed clothes and put on her shorts so they could just create a couple of images of the two of them getting cozy out in the field on her wedding day of course I'm gonna be there when she's getting dressed I want to capture all of the spontaneous moments and I believe it's important if you if you pay always pay attention when you walk into the room and a subject is getting dressed thanks yourself first where is the direction of light coming from and then you want to move about forty five degrees to the left or the right or about ninety degrees this's ninety degrees so that you get that have those highlights and shadows on the face it's really, really great so I want pictures of her getting ready and then of course I want some beautiful pictures of her with her hair finished as you can tell she didn't she didn't suck that day she looked pretty good when she's getting dressed I love to do just atleast one shot of her with before she has her dress completely on and again my always my criteria is is to be about forty five degrees to the left or the right of the light source and you'll notice by the way that most of the time my backgrounds are very neutral that's just my personal style I like clean simple lines I don't like a lot of distracting things these are all by the way double page spreads so as you can see lauren is a very shy girl she she doesn't do well you know she's very very shy so it was really hard pulling this kind of a look from her I got to tell you and then this geek you mister g q guy right here of course you have to get some great shots of your handsome groom my goal is to do a siri's of images of both of them and do them very quickly. I want to be able to do like two or three images and then change and move around, because if you do that with your subjects, they're not going to get bored. S o with vince and vince this case, I wanted to capture pictures of him with his guys, and so as they walked, they were going to do an unveiling of the bride. I made sure that I caught pictures of him as he as he arrived with his groomsmen again, notice where my camera position is in relation to the light source. The sun is actually behind them, which provides separation between them and the background. And then when the reveal happened in this case, I chose to be behind the bride as she comes up to where the groom is that, and then capture some images of the two of them as they saw each other and their wedding attire, the location I selected for a very specific reason, you'll notice that the main light of sunlight was coming from behind them, but there was also a white building that the sun was bouncing off of, which provided a beautiful main light. So when you're out in an outside environment, always pay attention to where the sun is out and then look directly opposite where is it bouncing off of an opposite? That could be a great place to place your subject? Of course just the beautiful romantics of the two of them together again, you'll notice my backgrounds are very neutral and always with a beautiful soft light source I try to use bouncing buildings that's my favorite thing? If not, I'll use a white side of a reflector this is basically what you saw over there a ce you can see it just looks very contemporary doesn't look like she's dominating over him, but it actually works really well to create this beautiful, intimate kind of kind of a very young contemporary portrait of the two of them. There are times when it's appropriate for me to have groups of photographs on the pages you see here with the bridal party and you'll notice that my bridal party photographs are very relaxed and casual. The reason for that is look at the wedding it's casuals an outdoor wedding I don't ever pose my groups always the same way quite often all sometimes they'll pose a more formally if they're dressed very formally if it's a church wedding, but in this case it would just seem silly when you have all these people dressed very casually to do so with my family groups outside, you'll notice that there again their post very relaxed, but again the son is actually behind this building right here and it's bouncing on a white wall this way, which provides me a beautiful light notice how important the bending of that gnaeus for the bride and also for the girls. So whenever you have your subjects stand, make sure that you have the one of the legs, the legs event and then and you don't want the knee out you want the knee in facing inwards because this makes that person look heavier and thicker through here, but it is she's got a long, straight dress that's the best way turning the knee into the other knee really gives that beautiful s curve for the bride and then look at how cozy the families look. My goal is to get beautiful, warm, fuzzy pictures of families and if there's a mature person in the picture like someone my age, I'm gonna have mom and dad coming really close to each other with the bride in the middle, and then I'm gonna have them all lean forward a little bit see how I'm leaning forward just a tiny bit like this see that little bit of leaning forward is really important for mature people and my little stepladder is critical I'm standing on my stepladder to capture these images, why that's right it gets rid of the double chin so you wouldn't see that and that by the way is great from a time standpoint we don't want to spend hours and hours having to retouch that double chin just bring a little stepladder with you and you're home free um I'll do all my family groups and I think family groups are important I really do and this bug flew me to death to see wedding albums that are nothing more than a collection of pictures of the bride and groom on where there are no parents no family there and you know my parents are both deceased so I tell you what how important you think the pictures are in my wedding album of my parents so I feel that it's really important don't feel ashamed because you do family pictures embrace it don't spend all day doing it but take them and get lots of the family members there because you know what happens when my son got married the people that came to that wedding reception we had two hundred guests my husband I paid for the wedding how important you think the people that came to that wedding were to us when you have two hundred people coming and you pay two hundred dollars a head to come we only had one child so we had to make sure we did it okay how important you think every but in those chairs is self think about that when you're when you're when you're not wanted to do his table shots, okay, so any rate, this is we, of course, I'm gonna get the ceremony. You notice I'm behind the couple. Wonderful, cozy pictures. Again, I'm up on my stepladder to capture it, because I just felt that really created separation separation, thes tree limbs, these vines are in front, it creates dimensionality, and then during the reception, one of the greatest things that has happened with the new cameras is that they have high s o I love imagery that is high, I s so I don't want to flash fill this. It kills the mood. And when you have a client that spends a lot of money on their decor and create that warm, fuzzy, intimate evening, you know that kind of intimacy, why kill it with a bunch of cold light?