Starting a Boudoir Business
From frightful photos to fearlessly famine and that's where we're going today when created life approached me about this class um it was very overwhelming at first well how am I gonna fit everything I've done in four and a half years in two three days uh so I didn't know I really don't know where to begin so I decided to start at the end this is what I want you to walk away with at the end of this class inspiration motivation and perspiration we're gonna talk about what that means I really want to make sure that you guys get inspired as artists photographers as people we need inspiration in our life every day all right you look for music to inspire you or through magazines we need something to make us feel alive and creative so I want you to make sure you get some inspiration from this class whether that be imposing pricing you know business model whatever it might be how you work with your makeup artist I don't know what it is but whatever you're looking four for inspiration I want yo...
u to try to find out here it's really important to keep our business alive that way motivation you have to excuse me I'm recovering from bronchitis and try not to cough as much as I can uh we all have challenges right way all have hurdles we all make excuses I want to help you get over those hurdles help you get through those excuses plow through them like they don't even matter I want you to be motivated I want you to take your inspiration I want to put it into action and that's where motivation comes in perspiration is the actual work this is where I find most photographers actually falter because they get tons of inspiration they goto you know workshops and they read books and they see things online and they watch creative live yeah yeah I'm going to do it and then it dies right there so what's stopping you from actually doing the work lets do the work and I put work in parentheses because I don't want it to feel like work I wanted to be fun I want you to enjoy it I want you to work happy I work happy so what you guys saw what happened so I've separated my three days into categories and we're gonna get very much into this so if you don't understand it now that's ok but today's intimate uh tomorrow's gonna be fearless in the last day is going to be filming him. Intimacy is really we're going to talk a lot about um well we're gonna talk about me a little bit I don't tell you about me how I got here, why I'm here, we're gonna talk about you guys I want you to share information with me we're going to talk about pricing and customizing our sessions and marketing and working with our clients and really just getting to know our business is better day two spiritless, and I called it that because I have to shoot tethered, which is so scary, so we're gonna go fearless, but no, truthfully, we're gonna work, composing we're gonna work on excuse me, posing, flow, communication with our clients. We're going to talk about excuse me a lot of that and feminine. This is a great one because I actually had a conversation about this this morning. A boudoir is so much about being feminine, and yet I think so many of us have challenges in embracing our femininity as photographers, as women as mother's, his wives, friends. So we're gonna talk a lot about that. We're going to do a style I shoot, we're going to challenge ourselves to have a little fun and think outside the box, so we're going for a good time. Okay, so this might be the pressing freshen that all of you are asking, who am I? And what am I doing here? I ask myself that this morning, about three times, but I'm gonna tell you a little bit about me, so I am an intimate photographer for the fearlessly feminine. There were those words again we're talking about those words but that is what I call myself when people ask me what I do I say I'm an intimate photographer for the fearlessly famine in I'm not a boudoir photographer this is what I am and we're gonna talk about that there's three words in that sentence like I said before intimate, fearless and feminine and remind them they're important they're my pillar words these are the words that I live my life by they're words that I believe in for my business their words I use in my decision making their what I want my clients to feel they are what I want my daughter to believe in they are everything about who I am so these air easier me says may is my business this is my life why well we're getting getting that studio but I want you to really understand because you're gonna hear these words a lot over the next two days you might even be sick of them you might never want to hear them again but they are they are who I am so we're gonna start with building cem intimacy I'm gonna tell you a little bit more about me I met all of you last night so I learned a little bit more about you this is me theo the rightful age of maybe I don't know for sure but clearly I had opposing down pat somewhere between then and um after I graduated college I always knew that I wanted to do something creative that helps people but like most people I landed a desk job and I actually worked in a family business and it was a very difficult thing for me my parents are probably watching now hi mom um but it was very hard for me because I love my parents I have a very close relationship with them and I really like most people want to make them proud, but if I'm being honest and this is a little emotional, I wasn't really happy in the job and I think that they knew that but I didn't want to disappoint them and I didn't want to leave and I wasn't fearless back that or maybe I was and I just didn't know but I have to pay my bills if I leave what am I going to do? What am I qualified to do? I know I don't know how to build this life that I want so I stayed and I have no regrets about that because like I said, I love my parents but then I got married and um shortly after I got married we decided to have a baby and that's where this this little monster comes in and a little shout out to my friend jenn wednesay, who took this picture of my daughter um she is seven and a half now and um when I had her when I was pregnant with her, we decided that I was gonna stop working and it was good for me because it gave me a little bit of a break from a job that I wasn't really so happy that although it was hard to leave my parents of course and it allowed me to really focus on her which I was really, really great before so shortly after having her I'm gonna back up also I tell you I also studied art I was a draw early in my life I've drawn nudes um I love drawing I love art I ever since I was little, my grandmother would teach me how to trace women in the newspaper and learn how to draw them so it was always in my blood so when I saw all these people taking pictures of my children charging me good money and I said, you know, like most people can't do that, how hard can it be? I'm an artist how hard can it be? So I begged my husband to me but please please I want a really expensive camera with the awesome lands how cute is hearing that I'm valentine's saving and he did he went out he research he bought me a night conti eighty was awesome and he gave it to me and I sit up but yeah I'm gonna be a rock and photographer and I took like, four pictures I'd like to use this thing and I put it down put it down for probably almost a year and he finally said to me, you know well annoyed I bought you this camera I spent about fifteen hundred dollars you're not even using it um and he was right but yeah he's really a lot of the reason why I I had my camera at that point what we decided was, uh we wanted to have another baby and it wasn't so easy for me my daughter I thought about being pregnant I was pregnant with my second child I had a lot of problems that hate lost two children in between my two kids and, um I think that I'm a generally upbeat and positive person but that really got to me so instead of wallowing in my pity because that's just not like me I picked up the camera and I said, you know what you're thinking instead of wallowing in my pity I decided I was gonna pick up the camera and I was going to make myself useful because I was a state home mom and how many times can you go to the ball or go to the gym remarked the floor do your laundry right? So I picked up the camera I took a couple of lessons we had some people come in to try to teach me about f stop and shutter speed and every time they left I said no idea what they're talking about I can't understand it. So one day when my daughter was at school I put a glass on a table and I took a picture and then I changed that stop change appetite and I took another picture then he did it again I took another picture and I went and I did it with shutter speed I did with I s o the whole nine and I loaded up the pictures and I looked at them and I studied about you know how it made things different look this background is blurrier and this one and you know there's blur in this one and and I just kind of went from there tried to teach myself how to use my camera uh and then I started doing what everybody does alcohol shoot you all should do for fifty dollars I'll shoot your kid I'll do it for free christmas cards you know, whatever it is I just wanted to photograph things that kept me busy made me happy and um my aunt was a well is still an interfaith minister and she marries people for a living she marries mostly people that come over from overseas that want to get married in new york for destination weddings so she's to me you know your photography is really taking off I think it's really beautiful and a lot of my couples don't you know they can't afford a real photographer so what do you think about maybe you know, shooting for higher by our and I said I have no interest I don't want to do weddings I don't want the responsibility I have no interest but thank you I appreciate it my aunt doesn't take no for an answer so, uh that two days later I get a phone call from a guy ah yes this is, um I think his name is fred actually fred and revenue alison recommended you for my wedding. I'm getting married in three days. I said, well, you might have the wrong number because I'm not a wedding photographer I don't know what you're talking about I have no wedding pictures to show you nothing I'm brand new and he said, well, I don't really care I just need you for two hours how much do you charge for an hour? And I said at a one hundred twenty five dollars an hour he said ok, good fired and I think I just made two hundred fifty dollars right same thing we all kind of do s o I shot the wedding it was a horrible experience actually the couple with it was not good, but the interesting thing was now miss stayed home um and I'm having an adventure I'm going into manhattan and I'm meeting people and I'm around people that aren't this tall and I don't need to change their diapers and I made a little bit of extra money and this could be something kind of cool, so I did a couple of weddings with my aunt and so now that I was a wedding photographer, I needed a new camera of course I needto upgrade, so I did and it's really funny because I don't really recommend doing it, but in my position it really changed a lot of things for me, so I upgraded to a full frame camera with a high rise, so capability and the only reason why I am telling you this is because, um about a month or two later, my friend laurie asked me to go on a boudoir shoot with her I had never done it before and I love the worry and she might laugh at this or she might hate me for this, but I really don't think she wanted me there I just think she wanted my camera, she said, jenna, I have the d ninety you have d seven hundred you have a high rise, so capability of shooting in a really dark room can you come with me I said yeah, sure, why not? I have nothing better to do sure I'll go with you so I did. We shot two sisters in a hotel room and she's right? It was dark and it was yellow and it was ugly and I am going to share some of the photos from that first session with you on dh I'm sorry really bad I don't call it a frightful photos for nothing. We'll start with a half decent one. This is not so bad, right? My first shoot ever I don't know there was a light on the ceiling we turns it on. We thought it was awesome. Um yeah she's got no hands, no head it's great it's awesome! But I was really proud of this picture here's another another one again for your first shoot. Not so bad it's ok, but she has no arm and half a nose and I don't know what that expression is that she's making, but it wasn't so bad, but if I'm being really honest with you, most of the pictures looked like this. Okay, I think we had the lights on in the room in addition to maybe another light source, and she really isn't john does I just made her look jaundice, um and show her armpits smelled great, I don't even think it edited excuse me, but this is what most of my photos look like. But I was I loved it. I ran home and I said to my husband, baby, I want to be a boudoir photographer when I grew up that's what I want to do and he said in his usual fashion, okay, jen, whatever you want. But I did. I called my best friend and I said, best friend, if you really love me, will you take off your clothes and let me take pictures of you from my website on she said what website said, oh, I'm a boudoir photographer now and I did in forty eight hours, I put up a website. Uh, this is one of the pictures I used again. Horrendously awful lots of amputation. I don't think she has a face on dh. It was bad, but this I was proud of this picture, and people ask me for this pose for years. You know, I kept it up there. I loved it. Now you're probably wondering, where did you shoot? I don't understand your boudoir photographer. Forty eight hours. You became a photographer. Um, I decided I was going to shoot out of my bedroom. I always find it fascinating when people struggle with this because I didn't I just said we'll just use my bedroom what out what what else is there? I don't understand why, but I spend money on a hotel or somewhere else I'm just going to shoot in my bedroom and that's where this was shot I'm slightly embarrassed by the next picture I'm gonna be forward with that I actually just moved out of my house about two months ago and like about three minutes before we moved out I said I forgot to grab a picture for great live with my bedroom looked like so this is what it looks like three minutes before I moved out but this was my bedroom it was very simple it was just a bed to night stands a couple of windows and a dresser it was very simple and and go crazy I didn't know decorated fancy I didn't have a million things I just said, you know what? It's a simple space with a little bit of natural light. Luckily, I didn't know much about light back then because the light wasn't so good but I made it work and this is a picture of what it looks like empty so you can get an idea of the space it just looks like a studio but I decided I was going to shoot my bedroom so ironically excuse me shortly after that, one of the sisters that we shot in the hotel room originally called me and she said, listen, I have a really good time with you guys, but I'm not gonna lie my sister, I think got more pictures than I did she went first we had a little more energy with her and I said, you know that's not a problem I have studio now, so why don't you come to my house? I will shoot you, but I'm going to make you a deal I'm going to do it for free I'm gonna include hair and makeup in the whole nine but I want you to share the pictures I knew she was a member of a board on long island that had a lot of brides. It was the bridal board I knew about it because I was on it when I was a bride and I knew that the women there there was it was just like real life. There was a couple of cool kids whenever the cool kids did everybody else wanted to do. She was one of the cool kids and I said to her, if you share the pictures on the board and you tell them all about me I will shoot you for free hair, make up the whole night, give you the pictures and that was our arrangement here's some pictures from god my favorite, the nose between the boob shot. But it was my third shoot and I was proud. I thought it, you know, it's okay. I don't even bother to put a blanket on the bed. I mean, I would you do that? Um, again, this is an awesome picture because the light is all behind her, so she should really be the other way. But somehow I made it work. Let me time. Here I am. Busy. I decide. Okay, I can't have another baby. I'm just gonna have a boudoir business. That'll be my baby. And without paying attention, I got knocked up again on it was a sort of bittersweet that is actually, mate, I thought I had a big enough belly for maternity suit. Um, the irony is it is almost better speed at that point, because here I am starting this business, and I'm really excited about it. And now I mean again. Oh, my gosh. You know how my gonna make that work? But I decided I wasn't gonna let it stop me. I was gonna plow ahead. And I found a couple more cool girls from this website, and I made them a deal. I'm gonna run contest, like, give you free, shoot, just share the picture, is that that's what your obligation? This is maybe my fourth boudoir shit he's a really well, I think I got worse before I got better because I mean, she looks like she's going to roll right off the bed but at least hermano was still lined up between her boost and this I don't know what this is uh, it took me about three minutes to figure out that was her chest on my other favorite thie heels growing out of the head shot I love that again. You could see all the light is behind her. Awesome! I use that great and, uh, yeah, I don't even know I couldn't shoot that now if I tried to, I don't even know what that is. Um, I'm not really sure, but anyway, lo and behold, I'm shooting all these clients and nine months later comes this little guy and the interesting thing about him was that he was colicky and this is what he looked like for three months of his life. I keep this picture my house to remind me never to have any more children. So now I'm that god is secure. So now I'm battling being a new mom again, having an older child shooting out of my house and trying to make this all work and my business is growing and leaps and bounds at this point, so there's a lot to juggle this is what he looks like now, by the way, I just had to share that again in the laboratory, my little baby, so things started progressing. I had my husband hang backdrops for me. We had all sorts of contractions in our bedroom is a matter fact when we sold our house and pretty sure people were thinking we're pretty kinky because there was like ropes hanging down and things attached to the ceiling and all these contraptions going on. But I needed to figure out how to make this tiny bedroom a studio and to have a million different looks in one place because I needed variety and I needed to attract different clients, and I wanted everybody to shoot boudoir with me so that's what I did, but then it sort of changing. I decided I'm sick of the backdrops I want to change things don't you guys ever feel that way? I'm sick of this I need to change things and I need teo to move it around. So I started looking for a much more natural way of shooting. I figured out that you use the windows for light, so waste a natural progression uh, so I started shooting a little bit more natural I wanted to tell a little bit more of a story and that's sort of how things progressed I shot my bedroom for three years actually, which was a really long time, because every day I would take all myself off my bed and all my personal items out of my bedroom, and I would shove it in my closet, and I would put on the boudoir set. And then every night I would take that off, and I would make it my bedroom again and it's really not so sexy, sleeping with five hundred different lights in your room or reflectors or other women's lingerie. But I, you know, we, um we discussed it, and we hated it, and we had moments where we didn't care, but it's, what we needed to do to make it work, and my husband that god is so sick port of it was like, hey, whatever you need to do when the time's right, you'll be out of here let's, not rush it. Things are good, and then I woke up one day and I said, I need a studio. This is kind of how I work. It was a sunday and, of course, is my husband usually says whatever you want, jen and I was like, can be the ipad. He hands me the ipad. I do a little searching on craigslist, and within four hours I had signed a lease for a studio. Because that's, how it works. And I went to studio said, you know what? This is great. I'll make it work. I signed. At least I came home. I said, we have a studio. My husband, I think when a little pale, but I was not surprised because that's, just the way I am and thiss was actually going back for thing at my last shoot, I did her half in the studio and half a home. So that was the last year I did in my house. This is my studio. If it looks small it's, not camera angle, it is small it's, super small it's about, um ten by twenty. So maybe a little bit bigger than that. Uh, the genius thing is, now I'm sharing it with somebody else. And when I say that I mean it's, not that we're both using the same space she has half and I have half. So when you talk about small spaces or somebody mentioned my facebook page of the day, you're gonna talk about small spaces. This is the epitome of small space, but I make it work, and you guys can do it, too. The beauty of this space was that it had some common areas like this elevator, for example, when I saw that I was like all right, don, where is the least I need to shoot here? Um so that was great and this isn't up after I put the bed and but really, this is all I have. I have a bed and, well, maybe a chair, you know? No crazy decorations on the wall, no big furry rugs, no backdrops, nothing. And I'm not saying anything against all of that. I think whatever you want to do to make it work is totally awesome. I don't have space for it, so I need to make this work. So this is where I'm shooting right now and this is the same girl that we shot in the bedroom, but this is the first time we shot in the studio. I begged her to let me do it so I could have some practice. This is a friend of mine. Um and I just fell in love with it. This is my assistant haiti you're out there. Uh, she just had a baby day. Um but this was great. I mean, it gave me something space to play and we just had fun and, um oh, my god! The light shone through the shades, I was like, oh, my god, look at all these fun things that we have and it had this really gigantic window which I loved. And then when you walked into the entrance, it had this little, like gray area, and I was like, we could totally make this work, so I make it work it's really small and that's sort of my story, how I got here, why I'm here and what I'm working with. And, you know, I think most people in new york can relate to this, but a lot of people that say you can only shoot my garage, I can only shoot in my bedroom or I don't really have a place to shoot, you know? We're gonna make it work. We're going to figure it out. Yes, please, weston first of all, we have a truck cherry who says, jen, thank you so much for being so brave to share your beginnings and what is awesome. And what I'm seeing online is people connecting and realizing that it's okay to be where they are, they're just connecting or if they're just starting and just realizing that things like one of the one of the first questions was, is it okay to shoot in your home and so let me actually, I would love to talk. Further about that because t smith says, I'm just starting out and so excited to watch this session welcome, I love love love your work then is it okay to shoot from my living room? I'm worried that people will not be comfortable or think that I'm not professional, and then what about shooting in my own bedroom? So since you did do that, how did you talk to your clients to make them comfortable about that? Or were there any issues with that? Um, tracy, listen up. Tracy shoots out of her home. Um, I never called in my bedroom, I always called it a residential studio, and I never told anybody it was my bedroom, unless they ask because I didn't have anything personal in it, so there was no way that they would have known they didn't see the other bedroom, so they didn't know it was the largest bedroom in the house. They didn't know it was the master, so I never called it that if they said it was my bedroom, you know, asked me if it was my bedroom, I would humbly say it is my bedroom. Is that is that okay? You know, um I think it's I think you need to own it and you just say yeah, you know, I have small kids, and, um, this is what I need to do to make it work, and I would talk up the space. My space is beautiful. It has natural light and it's comfortable because I have everything that you need there because it's my home is it okay to shoot out of your living room one hundred percent it's okay to shoot out of your living room, it's just a matter of how you word it and how you you know, tell your plans. And now tracey was telling me that she was is it okay if I share this? Tracy was telling me that she field also well, am I a professional photographer from shooting out of my house? You're a professional photographer if you're shooting from anywhere you want to shoot, but you have to believe that you're a professional photographer because if you feel not professional because you're shooting out of your house, then your clients won't believe that you are so yeah own it that's my advice, great. Any other questions before we go on, yet we dio we have a question from a new hope studios who said is it really so we're talking about starting up? Is it reasonable to get started in boudoir photography without having an established wardrobe or props? I'm interesting doing boudoir, but I have but have referred my clients out for it since I don't have any storage room for anything currently and we are going to talk about laundry I believe it's the end of the day today but I do not keep, you know talk about the top ten or five things that you keep in your studio, but I do not keep any words in my studio have you seen the size of it e like smaller than my closet, so yeah, I don't have room for any of that so it's perfectly okay, yeah, so let's talk about how how long you've been in, um in business I have only been she I've only shot about seven boudoir sessions right now I don't have anywhere to shoot either, and so we've been doing it outside in a secluded area so that's where we have been doing it, I have bean shooting boudoir for about three years, but just in the last year I turned my basement into the whole studio, so I have a nicely separated upstairs for my living area and downstairs is my studio and yeah, I was dealing with asking clients to come into my home and wondering how tio I feel confident that this is my studio, so I need to make that mental shift I guess I have been shooting boudoir for about two and a half years and I work out of people's homes if they're comfortable there or I book them in hotel rooms women seem to really like that I have never shot out of my home because I live in a small apartment I guess so I mean it's bigger than your studio but that being said maybe I should start shooting out of my home but I also want to thank you for sharing your beginning photos I was just looking at some of mine like last week and I was embarrassed and I was only in there with my cats but it was you know, that made me feel a lot better so thanks you know, the truth is everybody goes through that stage and unless you're mozart where you're like it's just so talented, you know you're born with it, everybody has to go through that state so I don't know why I was so embarrassed by bad pictures like now we want to share them on my block. Um I am brand new to photography I got my first digital camera last november and I'm still learning all of the ins and outs of it, but I'm hoping after this weekend I will have all of the knowledge to launch so I actually did do one boudoir shoot with my best friend in my house a couple of weeks ago and they turned out okay um I think a starting point that starting but um it is interesting what you're saying about shooting out of your home I actually have a really nice large bedroom with lots of beautiful light and I'm thinking that maybe it is a good place for me to start so I'm looking forward to that so thanks so I've been a photographer for a while and I'd say about half of my career has been as ah fine art photographer and two years ago I renovated my home which has a live work loft into specifically studio so my living room my lounge is my studio and for about two years now I've been shooting exclusively boudoir thanks um uh let's see I graduated from college in two thousand nine so I think I've been doing this about four years now I've always done boudoir I I can't tell you exactly how I fell into it um I've been lucky to live in sacramento where we have lots of hotels and I developed a relationship with one of the ben breakfast owners who only charged me fifty dollars to use her whatever room was available that day um to get started so for the first two years I shot out of hotels and because of the relationship I had with the spend breakfast owner and and how little she charged me I was able to build up my business enough to get into a studio subleased from someone else starting out and paid very, very little for that space until that space was the least was sold, so I just renovated my own studio a couple weeks ago my husband put in my babe happy valentine's day he did all of the work for me I'm very, very blessed to have a family and friends who I I owe a million different photography projects, but but that's how I was able to do it with my friends and family helping me to to build that space and I did it on a very tight budget so and proud of myself but also it's very, very scary to sign a lease for a year on something that costs more than my rent on my home, so I'm I have my concerns, but I think it's gonna work and julian, if it makes you feel any better. When I signed the lease for my studio, I was also concerned and part of the reason that I took on somebody else in the studio is I can't afford the studio, but why would I if I shouldn't take on somebody else? I'm not I only shoot ten times a month let's say twelve times a month there's thirty one or thirty days in a month that's twenty days and I'm paying for that I'm not using it so I took somebody else on saying you know well that's ridiculous and I'm paying for it so it's so you know that's okay and it's okay to make some changes and figure out I know you said that you were you know, talking about working with somebody else's share the space and keeping your cross down and that's that's good yeah awesome yes and thanks everyone for sharing your experiences it's really interesting to hear different levels that everyone is starting out and where they're starting out at we have a few people online who are sharing where they're starting a cz well so boudoir chic turn their garage into their studio which is separate from the house but it's a dedicated space they have been shooting for two and a half years now and love it's another potential space um we also have nicky jean who started shooting boudoir three months ago in a small town in sterling, illinois I'm wondering that's all over the town wei have jessica larch who is a regular here at creative live and she is beginning her fourth year started in the basement next to the oil tank in the basement worked up to two studio vacations and specialising solely an intimate and artistic realms as of this year this is the perfect workshop for you to be a part of jessica thanks for joining us what's c so keep sharing everybody said that we it's lovely and like you said kathy to get a sense of where people are starting from we have a number questions about starting up is that a good place to go? All right let's do that so so deed gilmore says who I think is in alabama uh there's a lot of talk about home studios I live in an area where I can have a home office but not a home studio clients can't come to my home what would you recommend for places to shoot and keeping costs down and a lot of people are asking about how do you go about even finding and write great space? What should be your considerations yes and we are gonna also address us on day three when we talk about style I shoot so but because it's day one we'll talk about that okay? I definitely recommend bed breakfast hotels like jolene did working with hotels a lot of people shoot bridal boudoir so you can certainly offer them and say, you know, I'm going to tell my clients about you they're brides they make beginning married in the area so maybe we can cross market each other and maybe you can you know if they she sees the room maybe she wanted to be her bridal suite definitely when you approach a business find a way to make it profitable for them too there's something invested in them also invested for them also then they're more likely to let you use the space airbnb is another one so you could rent out rooms or whole apartments homes uh other people studios I have some photographer friends we share studios you want to shoot in mind this week I'll shoot yours this week this way we can kind of change it up a little bit um shares like in new york I know that there's some studio shares so you might pay four hundred dollars a month and there's ten photographers then you have to kind of sign up online not maybe the most ideal situation but if you're new and you're only shooting a couple times a month it'll probably work out for you so there's a lot of ways to think outside the box you know to make it work thank you it's just an excuse it's just a hurdle we're going talk a lot about those excuses what I don't have anywhere to shoot right? She shoots outside allie she's outside you know it's you if you really want to do it, you'll find a place to shoot friends, houses or even go to their house, right? Right, right this is a question servant specific teo small spaces so do you've any suggestions for a space where you can't have a permanent bed set up um so they shoot babies and families in the space about the same size is yours with an air bed work okay, I think an air bed would be okay I think of bhutan might be a better idea because then if you're meeting with clients there or if you need if you're shooting a baby in you need a mom to have a place to sit then you could have a couch and about so I think if we turn might even be a better suggestion cool well the question's air coming in but we can keep going ok good back tomorrow good alright, great so I want to go over the different years now I'm gonna be really frank I've only been doing this for about four and a half years for start to finish so I am sort of a baby too I'm still learning so we're going to talk about how you define success we talked about this a little bit of dinner last night teo the success and money and pricing but we're going to talk a little bit you're one can I do this? A lot of people have said this to me I have naysayers I have haters people are telling me you can't do this, there is no market for boudoir what do you mean you shoot people half naked? I don't understand isn't that like porn? I don't get it so there's a lot of negativity around boudoir photography, unfortunately, a lot of people saying, well, I can't do it. People said it to me now, when I started four and a half years ago, there was probably only three boudoir photographers in new york now, there's probably three thousand, but everybody would say to me, you can't make a living, just shooting boudoir, that's ridiculous! You have to shoot everything, but I didn't want to shoot everything. I didn't like everything, I just wanted to shoot good war, so there was a big question mark in your one, can I actually do this? When it started to take off? You're too became I can't do this, I'm going to show you, I could do this and it is happening, and I don't care what hurdles I have, I'm going to overcome them, and I am going to make myself the biggest, best, baddest boudoir photographer in the whole wide world, and everybody is going to know who I am. That was my goal in year two, and then came here and I put this picture up on purpose, because I kind of wish you would have punched me in your three I built a business in years who I did it, even though I had a new baby, and everything was crazy, I really you know, busted but and I made this crazy business those cool girls on that board got me so much business it was like coming out my ears and that was my success. I determined my success as everybody who needed boudoir would come to me, right? I mean, the money was coming there girls were coming, they were talking about me. I was booking ninety seven percent of my, you know, increase what is better than that? Yeah, I wish I had a friend back them uh, who would have told me that that's not success but I didn't. And what happened was I was also absorbed with everybody else was doing if I wasn't editing her shooting I was online looking at what every single girl was doing online what background does she have? Just you have a blue backdrop. I need a boob job. Does she have the better lens? And I have I need a better lines. Does she have yu know she shooting at this location? I need to shoot at that location. I was so worried about comparing myself to other people in making sure that I was ahead of everybody else. Courtney, are you listening to this because yeah, this applies to you I wanted to be the biggest, the best eye everything everybody was doing I had to be one step ahead of them little did I know that being so obsessed with what they were doing was actually keeping me like three steps below them, but it didn't matter at that time I was just I wanted a raise to hire me and everybody did I shot three hundred girls that year buy myself out of my bedroom so stupid, right? I know you're making a face e don't recommend it, julian um jenna say how many? Three hundred that's, what I like. So there was, like two hundred eighty nine something like, wow, I had a new baby wow, and I had an older baby, right? And I have a dog and a husband, and at the end of your three, I think it was precisely december thirty first at eleven pm I turned to my sister and I said, what am I doing? I'm exhausted, I hate my clients, I don't even really know them so well, but I hate them. I can't even remember their names because there's one girl coming in the next girl going out the whole nine, right? I'm miserable and I did my and of the year finances and I realized, yeah, I brought in a lot of money, a lot of money by any means anybody would say I was successful, but I really didn't get to keep much of that money I wasn't charging enough which is why so many people wanted me by the way uh I really just it was miserable I was miserable I wasn't spending time with my children my husband missed me I think I'd like to thank uh it was just it was yeah, it was great to get my name out there but I really really wasn't happy and so I decided I was going to work smarter, not harder yes um you know, in your three how you worked really hard on dh you were able to build up kind of ah reporting a name for yourself would you say looking back that it was worth it in a sense, you know, I don't regret it, but I don't suggest it okay? Does that make any sense? Because the thing is that had I not I only don't regret it cause I wise and up had I not wise and up, I certainly wouldn't be here today because I wouldn't have time all right? Because I wouldn't but I wouldn't have time to enjoy my family. Um I wouldn't be making money and that's really what the thing wass I decided as of january first that year I would rather sit on my tush and do nothing and make no money than to be out busting my tush and not making any money that just didn't make any sense so yes, I understand that you're in the beginning stages and you want to build a name for yourself, but there's certain certainly plenty of ways of doing that without burning yourself out. Ok, thanks also, I call it the year of not caring what anybody else was doing, so this was a big revelation for me. I decided I made a pact to myself for just about a year ish I'm not perfect, but you're ish I was not going to look in any other boudoir photographer his website I didn't care what anybody else was doing in fact, somebody was doing something if everybody had that blue backdrop, I'm selling my blood back job, I want to do the total opposite of what everybody else is doing. I had just had just had it I said, you know what? I'm going to throw caution to the wind and I can't make this work the way I want to make it work and I'm just going to stay home with my kids. Why am I do you know why bother? I mean, we had joked yesterday, excuse me, if you can't make money doing this, you might as well just go to work for somebody else and get benefits and a pension plan and, you know, make some real money, not have to stress be able to leave job at five o'clock right? Because here I was all hours of the night editing weekends I was shooting you know I didn't I didn't carry mars gonna work smarter, not harder and I actually took a nose dive I jacked my prices up I said I don't care I'm gonna make it hard for you to book me now I almost don't even wanna work it was almost like the opposite you want but you have to come find me but um uh yeah so this is the year I decided I was gonna work smarter, not harder and it was a difficult year I had to reinvent myself I mean, you talk about marketing and finding clients every single client that book me for the three hundred clients they're friends all hated me now because my pricing was much more and I wasn't booking those girls anymore so I had to find your client and we're gonna get into all of that so it was a tough year. Yeah, so in this year I definitely made more money and I didn't just make more money. I kept more money so I actually made less money but I kept more money make santa uh which was awesome and at the end of the year I said I'm just not happy and my husband's are saying to me, you know, you never happy if you making money you're not happy if you're booking clients you're not happy what is going on that you're just an artist that's never happy and I started to kind of believe that I wass just an artist that was never gonna be happy success is not the key to happiness happiness is the key to success if you love what you're doing and you will be successful I was just so obsessed with the money how much money am I making any clients of my booking? That was my level of success that was how I measured it you're five which is where we are now I am not doing that anymore I don't not that I don't care about the money we need the money the money is important but I don't want to focus on the money because I'm not happy I want to focus on happy and if I focus on happy success will come for me. I know that and the money will come with it. Does this resonate with any of your guests? Here we are in your five the year of the y also known as the year of separating myself to be a unique individual that I am an owning who I am and working happily ever after, so this is about making money and being happy and enjoying what I'm doing and not killing myself, enjoying my family and the best part of this process isn't really even any of that might get emotional again saying it's about knowing who I am and embracing who I am and separating myself from everybody else and knowing that my clients are gonna hire me for me and they're gonna love me and I'm going to love them and it doesn't matter how much I charge or where my studio is or what my albums look like they want me and I want them yeah jen um photog nurse in the chat rooms and the temperatures just going crazy says I love your honesty about your beginning and also your humor about your own mistakes it's encouraging to see other photographers feel this way and I encourage you all to kind of share your own stories because what I love about creative live and bringing everybody together is we realize that we're all the same and we're all struggling with those same vulnerabilities and no matter what it's a lifelong process of figuring out who we are but that ties directly into our business especially call too often instructors or for successful photographers um don't admit that they struggled with these things and I do I struggle with it I still struggling with it I think that this is a never ending process but I never learned from my successes I learned from my mistakes a revel in my success is that's wonderful but if you want to really learn you better make some good mistakes absolutely, absolutely. Should I continue? Okay, thank you. Um, so I met this ofsome awesome guy who's here today call him out. His name is jeff. Uh, I saw him last year at w p p I and, um, he spoke about I'm not gonna lie. I don't remember what he spoke about, but when he spoke, it was like the seas parted and there he wass and it was like, oh, and whatever he said just stuck with me about being unique and working happy and figuring out who you are and I just it's funny because I wasn't even supposed to take the class. Somebody just kind of dragged me on this, alright, whatever. I could sit for an hour and a half and it just spoke with me and it stuck with me and I didn't contact jeff right away. It was a few months and it just kept taunting me and taunting me. And at the end of the year, for when I said, you know what? I can't do this anymore and you definitely need just to fix me. I need I need photography therapy, but I met him and you could find him a dammit, jeff and there is a reason why that that that is his website, because I say that at least three times every single time I talked he'll prove a point I go damage um he is about working happily ever after and about specializing and about finding your wife and some of you might be confused by that because you might say, well, you already specialize you shoot food war but that's not specialized enough and we're goingto talk about that a little bit more um last night we were talking at dinner about attracting a certain client I get clients I don't like clients, I don't drive with this is really about attracting the right client, attracting and repelling, working happy. These are the four d's discovery definition declaration and delivery and I really hope that I just want to say that I do jeff some justice here because I am only a few months into the process and this is not as easy for me to talk about as it is for some of the other things that I know like the back of my hand, this isn't new to me so and it's a little hard it's a little hard on putting myself out there, but I'm I'm discovering myself I'm really I'm really have done discovery and definition I want to be a specialist I don't want to take every single girl like in your three when I wanted everybody to book me I don't want any of them to book me anywhere island a very specific woman's a book that's what I want to find and I want to be a specialist and I want to be individual I want to be me generalised versus specialist so these are the four d's again discover what makes you unique daphne should be writing this down to fine why do you matter to the market declares how does anyone know you matter and delivers the big version you were not up today yeah you're not getting a big promotion that I just well maybe you are and I just don't know it yet, but that is the difference between a generalist in a specialist any questions on have a question I can answer e maybe this is the answer but how do you go about really figuring out each of these things and because they're big questions first about your soul then you stomp on it a little bit ah, it is not easy this is also kind of the conversation that we had this morning. I think that you have people have a very hard time seeing themselves from the inside out for me using jeff was sort of a mirror and so he can help me see myself because he sees things in me that I don't say that might be there so these words intimate, fearless and feminine didn't just get pulled out of the air I didn't just one day become intimate, fearless and feminine I was always intimate, fearless and feminine I just discovered it it's not an easy process and I don't have a full answer I guess because I'm not finished so then I guess we never really finished right finding ourselves so for me it was work it's been working with jeff that's been helping me I think also having a close knit group of friends that are also photographers can help I do have that in my life also which we'll talk about a quad with but I have three girls I'm very good friends with pierce ridiculous of me clark's off the pod but we're able to bounce things off of each other because we see each other better than we see ourselves that's usually the case always right so would that be I mean that's one great recommendation is for people out there who don't necessarily have a coach at this point is it finding other photographers? Is it just even going out and talking to people who are close to you in your life and you are not yeah there's something wrong with asking people asking clients what did you think you know why did you book me what what is it as jeff says they're always going to say they like your work they trusted you and I don't know your price was right something of that nature push them asked them what was about the experience why were you connected with me you might find the your clients aren't connected with you, which is a huge red flag, you know, it's okay for people to say, well, no, I'm not connected with you. You were just the cheapest one on groupon that I could find, you know? So it's asking questions and it's being vulnerable and being open to hearing what people have to say go ahead in the in the audience have a lot of questions. Um, on the declare how does anyone know you matter? Like what? What the heck does that mean? That part speaks calling jeff, you know, is that in terms of marketing is that in terms of, like, your personality? Like, damn it? Yes, they I guess the answer is yes. I mean, you know how the answer is yes, it's all of that. How does anyone know you matter? Yeah, it's all of that putting yourself out there you're not you're not gonna have a problem with that, courtney, you go up to random women and you're like, I want to shoot you. I mean, you declare is not gonna be your hurdle here I get kind of, you know, like it's, just the wording sometimes for me, it's like, okay, how does anyone know you matter, it's like because I matter obviously you know but there's I know there's a bigger and a deeper meaning to it than just, you know, like well, I do matter right? Like I know there's more sort of why these going in that order okay? Because you can't declare and so you've discovered in to find because you can't tell anybody that you matter until you've believed that you matter and why you matter so it's not necessarily an out loud statement so much as like a statement of presence is kind of maybe what I'm thinking if that makes sense yeah, I wish I could really answer that question solidly is it it is an out loud statement yeah, yeah, but you know, this is the thing I think and correct me if I'm wrong I think that it's not as much work as you're making it sound it becomes much more natural when you just are when you find the real true courtney you don't know how not to do this stuff this is just going to be in actually we're not gonna go out go okay, let me make sure I have my four d's in my pocket and make sure when I go to this party I'm gonna declare how important I have it's just going to happen it's natural it's always been there you're just finding what isthe okay, thanks yeah it is that's doing now this's this is like a muscle memory you know I'm not I'm this it is hard to be the authentic you why I don't know why that is I say that's jeff why is it so hard for me to be the authentic me? Because we always a lot of us have different personalities are different you know like it's like jeff's like a chameleon like you know you might be one person when you're shooting and you might be another person with your children for me that that was true but I'm dropping all those people and I'm just being me and that's what you're getting today that's why my voice was rumbling when I first started because I am the authentic me and I'm nervous because I want to impress you and I want to be accepted I want to be liked right? So that's the authentic me it's had its habit it's just like anything else the more you are yourself, the easier it becomes to be and then you're just owning it yeah you need teo but it's easy it's easy when you practice we have a couple questions from the internet so from miss lisa, can you start at this point of specialising when you don't have the clients and the monetary success first or do you have to go through the other side of my god that's even better because you can now define that this is what I was talking about lauren you don't even have to make all the mistakes that I made learn from my mistakes and start there yeah skip to your fight totally please because it's hard I know I would do it if you don't have to wei have a question about about the who secret to learning who your market is in that area sean says I just moved from florida to virginia because my husband is in the military and I've had a really hard time tapping into the market is there a secret to learning who your market is in an area? This is a double edged sword question for me because I think that every market is different but if um I'm sorry what was the name of this person that shawn okay if sean was this photographer in georgia for that bar to virginia virginia okay, I was a little off whoever sean was in florida should still be sean in virginia so that client that shawn is trying to attract the one place shouldn't change just because the location has changed the client should stay the same the message should stay the same yeah because people look at people very busy looking at finance as well they're rich people live here the poor people have here the military wives or whatnot and yes, maybe it adjust pleased to place a little bit but if you're being your authentic you your message doesn't change no matter where you're planted right and that goes back to why you have that discover first I imagine you think that is a because again here attracting the people that are attracted to you right? Okay, cool. Thank you. Okay, can we get off this light so I can see your way? Okay. Credo of special ism this you girls we've had this conversation multiple times so and I keep kind of saying it let's save it for a creative lives so this is the moment all right? Anyone could do what you do but nobody can copy who you are anybody can take boudoir picture is my daughter could probably take more pictures okay? Anybody can take him but nobody could be who you are the more authentic you are to you the more you know about you this applies to everything we're going to talk about pricing cares what your prices are if somebody only wants you you talk about marketing your marketing will be obvious if you know who you're trying to reach and what your messages the reason is thies things are complicated is because you don't know what your messages you don't know who you are if you know who you are all of the stuff come on yes, yes ok im sitting here hyperventilating teo s so deep I don't know this is the way to start the day I don't know if I have a question, but it's, I feel like I'm a carrying loving person and that's kind of who I am, but so is like fifty other thousand, you know for dog words out there, so I don't know how to go about making that unique like I don't I just don't get it. I told you first about your soul stomp I've been being part of like being a caring, loving person is oh, I'll give away an eight by ten that's no problem, so you're surrounded right now bye! Five other women who we've already bonded right? There's already a bonds and I'm hoping that when this class is over, that little facebook page you guys created is that's, not the death of the facebook page because you all need to sit port each other and love each other through this process, you're going through something intimate right now this is an intimate experience, just like when you shoot a client there's sort of an intimacy there, not because she's half dressed, but because you're in a, you know, a place that's a little vulnerable for both of you that's what's going on here, you guys are vulnerable and help each other mirror, you know, help mirror each other, help tracy find you know what you find unique about you, you know, that that's really what happens, you know, what's unique about her, you know, you're not gonna know today because you only met three days ago, let's say, but it will happen, you have to be open to it and you have to be ready to do a little bit of self discovery, which is the hurdle I'll stop hyperventilating don't in fairness, my first phone call with jeff was about an hour, and I cried about forty nine minutes of it, so I understand what you're saying. I mean, he didn't make me cry, sort of, but he knew the right questions to ask me that hit the soft spots of my heart that I mean, he hold him, he has a gift he honed in right away and ask me questions that I was like, holy crap, how do you know me? Even though you don't know me? That was a gift for me, but some people have that in their lives already with somebody in their life. I don't know if you do it, you're doing it's something to think about, um, but I think most people need a little bit help of figuring out who they are and it's not about how other people perceive you it's about who you really are and there's a distinction it's not easy. I'm not listen, girls, I didn't say come join me and creative life so you could have fun and having easy three days. This is not an easy process. None of this. As you see, it was easy. As my mother would say, everybody would do it. Okay, can we get our people back? I am not afraid of failure. And I can say that I have had this intimate since day one. I have never been afraid of failure and it's not because I know I'm gonna hear this. Well, you have a husband that works and you have another in calm and blah, blah blah to know me is to know that I really care about any of that. Because I want to make sure that I'm successful in my own right not to, um, you know, just rely on my husband. Failure is the only thing that enables true learning. I'm the boss. Okay, tracy, you're not the boss, I think that's the problem right? You don't you say that I don't have a backbone and I'm I'm worried that clients are going to take me seriously. You need to be the boss. As the boss I make decisions if they fail I learned from them if they succeed they take a lot of credit for them but the thing is that I'm not afraid of failing because you know I always say to my husband he'll say well what if this doesn't work or what is that it this is not an option if it doesn't work, I'll do something else failure is not an option I think that that's part of why I've been successful up to this point because I have had a lot of hurdles that I've overcome because I just don't believe it failure and I think that people I don't believe in it in any area of life you don't fail you learn either succeed or you learn and then you'll eventually succeed you okay e I see this everybody's always so afraid of failing well even worse afraid of succeeding I never got that one what you're so afraid of um it's a hurdle but you have to try not to be afraid of failure there is no failure there's just learning that's my thing that I say all the time there is no failure just morning right but I think it's so hard to get to that point so that's amazing that you have been fearless how do we how do how do we get there? What one of the things that we can do to overcome those fears. Okay, well, let me describe what fearless actually means for me, because fearless does not mean I don't have any fear, okay? And I think that if you saw me in the green room this morning, you would agree, um fearless for me means that I'm scared to death of doing it, but I'm going to do it anyway and it's going to change me and make me a better person and a bigger person and more authentically me than I was before when I'm done isn't that what creative live is about? This is really scary guy's like, I'm putting myself out there for lovers, for haters or my competition, you know, my my family, I mean, they could be mortified if I'm doing right now, there's a lot of things I'm putting out there, but I know what the end of these three days, if I stay true to myself and I'm honest about what I tell you and I'm open and I'd give it all to you that at the ends of these three days, I'm going to be bigger and better. And so were you and that's really what I want that's, why I'm here, I'm not here for the money, for the fame, for anything else, I'm here because I know that I can help you guys. That's authentic that's authentically meat and I'm scared to death but I'm going to be fearless about it because I know it's gonna have a good outcome for all of us that's what fearless is for me thank you that helps question because I think way beyond just people are resonating with that um lianna don says I say that to failure is not the right word there are on ly experiences that teach us what we want and yes to this definition of fearless thank you, jan thank you and it really on dh that's my definition by the way their definition of fearless might be something totally different or they might not or most people might not even identify with fearless and I want that to really be obvious here because I know what's gonna happen this class is gonna be over and we're gonna go online and everyone's going to change their name to the intimate photographer for the fearlessly feminine and here's my message to you I think it's awesome if you identify with that you want to be fearless you want to be intimate you want to be feminine more power to you but if it's not really you it's not gonna work for you you can take the name you could take the words you can plaster it you could pretend like you are where you are right that resonate resignations with me but unless you own it and unless you believe it and unless it's really in you it's not going to work great so we have a question from anne marie and as you're becoming fearless how do you set your boundaries and priority's to keep your work and family life balance because you have much bigger life outside of your business yeah sometimes I say that I'm a photographer first in a fire fighter second because I'm always just putting out fires wherever they need to be I think communication is really important and work life balance last week um prior to my being here I really wanted to make sure that I spent time with my family so I shut my phone off for the weekend I said listen to the producers to everybody that was here listen guys I'm not gonna be reachable for two days but the week before that I had a lot of work to do to prepare for this and what I did was I communicated and I said to my husband listen you're not going to see me to speak I'm sorry I love you doesn't mean I love you any less but I'm letting you know I need this time right now to do what I need to do for work and then there's plenty of times were all say to myself jen put work away your family needs you and it's not as important and it's just about knowing where you need to be when it's not always gonna be fifty fifty or ninety ten or whatever it might be it's just everybody knows where they need to be when they need to be there right and it's not about not fighting that it's not saying well I know I should be with the kids but I really have to edit these photos which is more important in that moment that's always saying that being with your kids is more important sometimes work takes precedence but just teo really be aware of that yeah yeah I think so it's not easy being your own meet my parents were not photographers, they were business owners and there are plenty of nights my dad was working late um it's not easy to be successful on my own your own business and for me try to fit a full time job into part time hours because I still try to be with my children in the afternoon um it's it's not always perfect I just try to be as good at it as I can that's all we can do right? Yeah, right. What about you guys and fears? Yes, I really like what you said about what the definition of fearless is to you and, um it reminded me that I've read a couple of books on millionaires self made millionaires will always tell you they have had so many failed businesses before they made it and that's just part of the process and to remember that and to carry that with me it has been helpful um you can't always be really good at something right away and, um so I'm glad that you said that I was reading it there's something going around the internet on facebook that like michael jordan got kicked off of his head so he didn't get accepted for the high school basketball team and like albert einstein our something of that somebody got kicked out of school because he wasn't smart enough, they said to scratch is not going to amount to much a lot of people have failures, you know, right? And for me personally, I've I started my first business when I was twenty and uh I had some good ones and I've had some really bad ones where I crashed hard and my last one it took me almost a year and a half teo even recuperate from it because it was such a in my mind at the time such a massive failure. Um but I've decided even though it scares me to try to launch something again and especially with photography because it's not like oh, I own a cafe, you know, with photography it's so personal and it is so tied to my vision and it's almost even more scary, I've decided to do it, and I feel like making that decision and going for it anyways, I feel like the universe here, you know, heard me and that's why god chose to be here today. It's like amazing the doors that open when you just really go for it. So thanks to your percent, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. This is why we need photography there be right, but it is true because I thought when I was a state home mom oh, two hundred fifty dollars I'm gonna pick up my camera. I'm going to make money and I think what people don't understand at least for me it is so emotional and it's so personal and I didn't know that I thought I was just going to take pictures. There are some people that do just take pictures. We're all clearly not one of those types of people are us. We wouldn't be here today. There is an emotional attachment and this is part of why I think sometimes our spouses don't understand us or our families don't understand this they think what is your problem? Pick up the camera. Take the pictures goto work, go home, what's the problem. But it's like a little piece of us every time we clicked that shutter right it's like is it good enough? Is it what I want is my vision is a true to me is about the client it's so conflicting I want what I want I want what they want it's emotional turbulence and and I hate to scare any of the newbies that are out there going wait a second what did I sign up for? But this is the way it is at least for me it is and I'm not one of those people could just pick up the camera and take pictures and done with it I really connected to what you said about authenticity and the discussion we had yesterday and when I went to art school they said to me every portrait you take this self portrait now who everyone khun see what's out there so how do you even begin to step into that place where you are uncomfortable but willing to show yourself? Um, nothing good has ever happened out of being comfortable comfort stinks when you're comfortable. I mean, at least for me when I'm comfortable, that means I'm bored I need to change things I get really bored, so if I am I mean, like six months of having my studio is like I think I need a new studio because I'm bored here you know, I like to change things I don't like to be bored boredom and comfortable is a bad place for an artist today thank you and then it's just being aware of that and accepting it moving forward so people are were having a great conversation there. I love that we're starting with this addressing those fears on and this is something that we you and I have been talking about, so I wanted to ask you from enchanted memories photography, how do you learn to block out the other photographers around you so that you don't compare yourself to others? Just I have I have a really hard time, I'm not comparing myself to others and as you were going through all of those things of self talk that we do, we do to ourselves every time we push the shutter, that is certainly I think a big one for so many of us is comparing ourselves to others, you just have to do it and you know, the thing is you are comparing all of your photography to somebody else's thirteen best photo on their web site, right? So how many pictures that they take to get those twenty best photos? Probably a heck of a lot of pictures you're comparing your worst moments your good moments, your best moments is somebody only somebody's best moments and that's not really a fair comparison but we've talked about this about, you know, walking in and, you know, assessing everybody in the room who's taller than me, whose center the me who's prettier than me. I mean, this is the way women work, right? We do the same thing in photography, who's better than me. What actions would choose? How did you get that thing? So the thing is that it clutters your mind and to be a true artist, I think it to be true to yourself, you have to have a three mind you have to be clear of influences from other people. It is not easy. I have to be honest, I don't check my news feed that often on facebook. I do once in a while insomniacs so sometimes when I can't sleep, I'm going to check my new c, but I stopped checking my no, because I have about two thousand friends on facebook and probably eighteen hundred of them are photographers and I get slammed by images it's kind of like imagine being a musician and trying to write a song with like lenny kravitz on in the background, how could you do that? You need to just shut it out in a quiet space, be true to yourself and not worry about what anybody else is doing, you have to just do it, I think I think I mean, cappie and I talk a lot, but it's also that concept of abundance, and so when you're in there by yourself, you're just here there is an abundance I'm not saying I never do it, you know, I like to see what people are doing it's fun for me. I like to see what people are too, but I try not to let it influence may write that's great advice um, so lush bodies boudoir says I'm finding all of this to be so true. You give a lot of your own energy when you're doing something so intimate and personal with another person. So do you ever turn clients away? If you feel like you don't click? Yes that's brilliant to turn clients away because that's, what you're looking for to attract and repel if you take a plane that's not right for you, that is just bad that you're not gonna be happy, they're probably not gonna buy that much. You're not gonna make good money on them, you're gonna be miserable. You're sitting at twelve o'clock on campbell, but I have to edit another one of these girls faces, you know, why do you want to work like that? I have turned clients away and is a matter of fact, I've even given clients money back after they've already booked me when we're talking and we'll talk about this a little bit later, but when we're talking in our appreciate consul, if our visions are not clicking, I'm really honest because I'm not cheap and I don't want somebody to spend all that money. I mean, be disappointed, that's not good for me, it's not good for her, absolutely you should absolutely be able to turn clients away and not feel bad about it. In fact, when I started this process with jeff, I said, too, at one point you feel like taking any clients. They're all making me crazy. I went looking for reasons say no to them because I really want to make sure I'm getting that that ideal client for may. I'm curious if we are going to talk about this later because I know this is huge for people who are starting out as it was as it is for me still. But is that how to say how to say no? What is that conversation from new york? I don't really owe t don't like to upset anybody. This is part of the learning process, making mistakes and learning, okay, I'm not gonna do that again, changing your wording and your emails. Letting them know and setting boundaries. This is something I've talked to tracy quite a bit about because she also said, well, I include this for free and that for free, and if they wanted, I just give it to them, and if they book an hour session, I give him two hours if they ask for it the biggest challenge, I think, as photographers, especially one's working out of their home or they don't have a studio is we want people to see us this legit businesses, and the only way we're going to be seen as legit businesses is if we act like one, so you're not going to go to bloomingdale's and say, I really like these pants, but I can't afford them. Can you give him to me half off? Yeah, no problem. I just want to sell them. You can have one half off. No, they would say no, this is the price. Take it or leave it. Um, when you retain a lawyer, you give them money to retain their services. So why do photographers have such a hard time collecting money to retain their services? Uh, yeah, this is this is for me that's saying no is not just about having a backbone it's about treating yourself like a legitimate business and thinking what would another business d'oh what do I expect when I go to the doctor's office if I have an appointment I expect the doctor to be there if I cancel that appointment they charge me a fee for canceling that appointment you go to a salon you know how does that work? You make an appointment how does it work with the makeup artist? You tipped them whatever other businesses do we need to kind of consider that because that then changes your mind set about yourself, right? Because then you're not just tracy you're a tracy the businesswoman this is my business. This is, you know jennifer rosenbaum photographer not hey generals member hanging out this isn't the photography side and this is a business and I pay my bills and I feed my family with this and therefore it needs to be taken seriously so just to push a little bit more even on this because people are still asking about it. So can you first cbk photo can you give an example of a time that you turn somebody away and then because debra style photography says, how do you turn somebody away without turning them against you? Okay, it doesn't really matter if they get turned against you per se because they're not your client anyway, but but they're friends like you people are afraid of bad mouth people gonna bad mouth them if they turn them away right I have a really good example that I'd like to save for a little bit later, but I have another example. I one time a girl wanted to book me, she had contacted me, lets a year before she ended up not booking me in between that period, I moved to my studio, so she called me, she said, I want a book you find we booked her, she called me back five minutes later and said, just checked out your website what happened to all of your backdrops and that beautiful bed in the bedroom? I said, I'm not there anymore, I'm in a studio now it hasn't much more urban beauty field, well, more grungy beauty and I don't use backdrops anymore, and she was like, I'm not gonna have the damask backdrop. What do you mean? It was like what I dreamed up the last year and I just said to her simply, you know, I understand that, and I get that that's a star you're looking for and I don't shoot in that style. I think you're better off finding a photographer that shoots that sell because it's way too much money to spend on me and not be happy, my goal is for you to be happy, I'll even suggest who you could go to that has this backdrop, I know that they d'oh so if you don't want somebody turn against you, the best thing that you could do is help them find somebody that is a good match for them being helpful and still serving them even though you're not their photographer that's great that's great! So again, we have just a few more minutes before our first break and we have a lot of men in our audience e know that you are going to talk further about men in boudoir, but just to let you say it on air just to let everybody know in your opinion can a man be a boudoir photographer? Yes, and if you're using being a man as an excuse not to be one that is not good and I want you to stop it right now because there are many things that I convey I khun b a fantastic with clothes that could be great with makeup and great with my clients, but I cannot be a man and it frustrates me sometimes that I can't see women through a man's eyes because men see women so differently than women see women and for me being a man sometimes give somebody an advantage because if somebody wants a type of maxim photo or something super sexy the way a man sees a woman, I can't give that to them, so use it to your advantage is what I say play on that and have another woman in the room make women feel comfortable okay, I have a female assistant or you could bring a friend with you being a man is not a good excuse not to shoot good work I love it thank you, thank you and we are going to go into that further everyone so hope you got that made a bunch of you happy way have time maybe for one more question if we have one yes, just on the topic of your fears I'm interested to know kind of how like my husband I don't have kids, but one of my biggest fears is that oh my gosh, we have children where is my time go? And how do I still do what I want to dio and because I don't mean this to sound bad? How do I not be inconvenience by a baby? I hope that doesn't send her in this way and that way, you know? Yeah, there is no way not to be inconvenienced by your children because the only thing predictable about children is their unpredictability, so sick days, instant vomit, crazy things you know that happened when your kids around that's all going to happen? Um I really don't know how to answer that question because it's not something that you think of when you become a mom, you just do it it just happens. Can you relate to that alley just happens. You that's your priority now, and you'll make room for it. And I always think that, you know, there was kind of a space in my heart that I didn't even know was empty until I had my children. So when it happened, uh, of course, they take priority and that's it, and my business is second to that. It'll just be an automatic shift. You won't have to try so hard.