Pricing Your Work
Now I'd like to talk about pricing because I think this is a huge part of fashion photography always got a lot of questions with how does price my work? I have no clue like I'm from this background. I do this kind of work I have no clue about how even to think about it yet approach it so your price and your work, I think the most important things your experience in the industry where do you live in the industry? How much experience have you had with what you do your target market? And this is why it's important again, that target market comes first, your target market will define your price if you do wedding photography and you're experiencing price what's gonna be higher than someone who is an experienced fashion photographer to someone else that does child portraiture on and on. So the main thing is your target market will define that as well research the client. So if you're pricing your work for a client and they want to know a basic idea about how much you cost, research the clien...
t, figure out what they do, who they are and evaluate the expenses and budget involved in the shoot, the important thing with this is to evaluate the expenses on your behalf and the budget involved from that sea may they might come with you to a budget first or you might be the one that put your price to them what's good about this is you can kind of you can kind of research them put the expenses into mind with all these four things in mind try and figure out from this how much he should charge I think the main thing with this I think the thing is it's very hard to determine and define how to do pricing because everyone is different I don't think that people should be concentrating on what other photographers charge I think that may be a waste of time for people in the industry I think it's frustrating for people when someone says this person's owning this many thousand dollars and I am only only five two dollars for this I think it's good to expect that if you get into photography and you're into fashion photography it first you're not going to make money in the first few years because you need to build your recognition it's gonna be more if you need to put some money into that and maybe supplement something on the side until something outweighs the other um and then again usage and other services so if someone wants to book you for a shoot what is the usage after that as well other services involved how are they gonna promote that work where they going to use it how many? How, um sorry the distribution and how many times they gonna print it all those kind of things that determine what your price should be a swell main tip avoid comparing yourself to other photographers so to determine your price these five things put these into plan what works and what does a swell to experience your target market research the client that you might be putting the budget across to evaluate the expenses in the budget involved and think about the usage in other services that might be involved other services comes under retouch in anything else they might want on top of the chute whether it's meetings that you have to do beforehand location scouting you've got to think of your time and how much you invest into it with time and money yourself and then determine how much is supposed to get back to it for that time are there any questions so far in price dan or are we good to go? I think it will take a moment for it to get through to the internet there's little bit of a delay question with usage and other services is there like a general percentage that somebody I mean for example you would learn from a book cover every time it took his soldier does it really depend on it is a very yeah that definitely varies but there's also things by book covers will pay in advance on your pay very small percentage so most of the book of clients I work with we'll pay you would want a fee for your time so I'll give them like a budget lay out this is how much I cost is how much retouching is location scout how much my model cost I'm organizing the shoot my team and then I'll put it out what's important is that you lay out for them so you're not just coming in with the cake you or me this much money because kind so like oh why why is it that much? But if you put in it to them and you're going to kick this is why this is why they slide there like oh, I get it okay and they they click and they're like hair I understand it now and often I put the usage in that as well there's a good few online calculators for licensing images because it is so varied it's really hard for me to say to you now this is this this is this it also depends on safer book cover client was more popular than another one how big that client is if it was half a kinds they might be bigger than a smaller independent book cover company to check out what I mean like all that kind of yeah just google I think that it's important because it's also the territories that there as well I know some in the uk but it's also important the people that are watching online that it's also depending on the country you and because that comes into light usage and everything to you so you mentioned a lot of researching and say like great researcher client that doesn't sound like it would be something that you can just google on their website because things like that so service specific stuff for their normal viewers so is acceptable just call them will email them asking about it about pricing um like about the client I don't know like their budget for not that that's kind of that might be crossing the line a bit with the claim it's always good to kind of when I say researches many like a big time of me saying who is the client? What is that place in the industry? How long did they do business for perhaps what the quality of the work they produce the photographer's they've used before that kind of thing's so that kind of determines in your mind okay these guys are serious about what they do and this is that determined with all of these five things what might work on what might not yeah you talk a lot this weekend way whatever just about working with a team so marty gap is wondering when a magazine pays for the editorial how do you distribute that money with your team? Do you pay the production and split the rest equally including the model again it really depends on what isthe sometimes it's not enough budget to pay everyone and people accept that because they know the industry models expect that when you're working with models again the agency expects that too sometimes the models will work for free because it's a great publication for them and all the money is put into the lighting rental the location house the food and no one is paid and that's how you should determine it for editorial work that's how it is um and actually I want to tell you a little thing it imagine when I was kind of starting photography I think I was eighteen um one of my favorite inspirations is tim walker and I went to one of these semin eyes when he was in wales actually same places where I didn't love my only shoots and I went along and I sat down and I was expecting the same thing I sat there and I was like I wanted to talk about all this amazing stuff in I want to know like how much does he charge how much does he get this in my mind I was like hey disguise and you know this money he's doing what he loves his work is amazing I was like I'm really jealous and then he sat down he is a very quiet guy and he went through is um he went for his seminar and what's really mesmerized and then he stopped on a vogue cover. Any clicked honor any said we as photographers, we don't get paid for this, and that stopped me that said to me, okay, but he didn't put me off and that's what I'm trying to say to you guys out there, that even though people might not be to pay for this because of the way the publishing and the marketing industry is, it should not put you off from doing something you love because, um, editorial work is something that gets you towards the advertising work. It gets you to that high thing it's about putting in a ce much effort, and eventually the other will outweigh, and you start to receive the benefit from it just a quick follow up to that talking about if you katie has a question about when you're working with someone just for free and just kind of doing a test or something. If you ended up like a gallery selling sells your print of that, would you then go back in, compensate the model further, or would you pay them up front at the time of the shoot? Um um if you a comfortable paying the model at this sort of shit, then that's fine. Um you khun do that as compensation to say thank you for your time and some photographers do that a lot of fine art photographers do that but when you're working out of a budget as well as I know most people who are watching might be just starting out it's better to kind of way if you put it in an exhibition maybe get permission if you know that person and say that if this image sells then go back and get something from it but be honest I think the most thing is be honest with your team on this with your people you photograph because that's going build your recognition as well they're going to trust you for things that down the line again put in these in here I want to talk again this no budget this editorial commission by hiring magazine but the budget was put into the shoot I want you guys to remember that because this has gotten so much work and it's already paid for itself by like ten times by just doing that so it's important that you do that even though you coming away with nothing I think I even paid my own flight change slight change flat to stay in london joined that time but I was like okay I know this is gonna lead to things further on down the line so it's always thinking ahead where is the shoe gonna get me in two years the shoot paid itself like you said within six months. People loved that. The fact there was something going on in the photo with three girls, that I could work with a group of models and not many people do that. So sometimes it's. Good to find your niche. Find out what you're good at. Find out if there's like a place in the industry for what you do and the clients will be attracted to a swell. So I want to talk about the advertising work and how you can earn money from this. So again, this client, the fold london they found my work. Choline. They love the aesthetic they love the way I photograph women. And they have a brand called fold and that's about women in office. Where but it's fashionable office where? So when they commissioned me to do it, I was like, okay, it's office where how do I make this into something that I do? So they wanted a new york backdrop because they're a london based company and that kind of thing worked for their market out there. And this again, jobs like this can lead from anything from another story numbers out here because there's no average photography sphere could be anything from a thousand dollars. To ten thousand dollars kind of dependent as well where you are so don't let the fact that I keep telling you the editorial works and pay because you will start to see the benefits of it and it may only be that you get one of these a year at first it may be that you get one a month but that's gonna be your income and as long as you network in different places and reach out to different clients, then you're gonna start to see the benefit from it later on and another one a swell on this is a lamb bags campaign I did again emerging designer in england saw my work I'm in emerging photographer to them collaborate even though it's not a huge budget for the shoot it's still grain it's still a good budget for me to work with and I'm coming away with money from it okay, so when you're doing things like this there's probably like eight images you've got to think about the time it's taking you to reach touches what it's not just the photographer city it's the time you put into it maybe you're meeting the client before maybe your location scotty, maybe you're in charge of the casting think about how that much time investment is put into it and how much of a benefit the end result will have on you so payment and budgeting be clear from the start because no one wants to be told later on that they owe you more money a thumb and this has happened many times during the start of my career when you say to someone okay here's this amount I want for the shoot and then you find out they have all this money and they kind of sneak li tell you on the shoot and they're like oh well I just got paid this eye over a drink later on this year and you're like, damn, I should have charged him a lot more and then I have a job with them and I'm saying you know next time I'll be charging you more for it so it's just important to be clear from the start research your client kind of figure out what they have clients like hyeon advertorial client so advertising clients you know that they have money to spend on shoots emerging clients like look books people they just started to clothing range they're the people that were trying to put it more but it's important to get in there and get a little bit of money from it and get the pictures from it that is to say I'm not doing it because you know the fears and high enough create expenses and a budget proposal so whenever I approach a job from book covers to look books anything like that sometimes a client would say to me okay, can I have the low down on how you know, what is the budget or expenses proposal? Can you send me one and I'll send it to them again? They'll be like, okay, that's no problem. Take a deposit because okay, chloe, I know you had a question. You're good editorial stuff that you produce yourself. Yeah, you do the but, uh, budget estimate and expenses. Yeah, on dh then so your agency just handles the advertising. It depends because my agency's only in london, if I do jobs here right now, if I t jobs anywhere else in the world, I handle that. So he's the one over there that we'll handle that and it's so nice to have someone that can be the person it negotiates view because that can get in the way. Sometimes you just want to be creative as a photographer, you don't want to deal with many, but sometimes you have to and you have to be strong and you have to be clear because people will say, oh, they're an artist like it's fine, we can get away with free things, but just know, like why should you shoot? Afraid what's the benefit all those kind of things. Yes, this kind of goes along with that when you were saying that you do like the outline with you break down of all the expenses is there like an hourly rate you're kind of putting on there for you no x amount of hours for location saudi xml for we touching and does that early amount very for what specific? Yes, I always do everything by day rate because I think it's important I think if you start throwing hours in there things can get if you think clients get confused and I think if you throw in hours of someone they think well this is gonna get expensive do I know that she's gonna be working those hours throwing a day rate and there there on the shoot they know that a day rate could cover the retouching they're gonna be more open to that because it's more like, um a great estimate for them so if you throw an hourly thinking them they're like okay, so I don't know how much the end result is gonna be the day rate it's like okay, so it might be this amount of thousand dollars and we can do that haste it's always important to not confuse them and kind of negotiated a swell for the next thing is take a deposit and I found find that clients will always give you a deposit if you push them for that because this has happened a number of times in my career and I'm sure that some of you out there we'll have the same thing if you don't take a deposit with that shoots workshop, anything people have the opportunity to just say I can't be bothered to do this today, or and you put all in that hard work to do it. So a deposit can anything from thirties fifty percent, depending on what it is. And if a client says no, maybe looking to shoot contracts, maybe looking teo may be getting a lawyer involved that maybe could create something for your business that you could present to clients. Um, I would only start doing that if you have a lot of work it's worth the money you pay to get a shoe contract put up. Or maybe it's even written email to say, I'm booking you on the state. Um, this is what I want from you as well. So I think the deposit is just something that you can fall back on if something happens. Nor so send high res images after the final payment because often clients will expect this. I want you to send high rez, and then you come away and then you never hear from them again. So people are sneaking you never know, like some people might just looking for a shoot, and they'll think they're on the other side of the world, and I work with a lot of international clients, and they all think that all great sent me the high rez that means I can get away, that I don't have to deal with this right now, and you don't want that to happen. You don't want to be tried to know that. So always send small reds j pegs the previews and small rise and say when the final payment is made, I will send that the only thing that that doesn't come in mind with this when you she with editorial clients, you know that they have that place in the market more higher end kind of magazines like your condon asked or l those they're not going to screw around with that. So that's when that thing is okay, you know that they're okay. And this is where research comes into play. No, the client if it's a client that you're not aware of, they don't have a website, they look a bit strange that, like couldn't be in professional, then make sure you do that and again avoid comparing yourself to other photographers with this. It doesn't matter that that person charges from that person, it doesn't matter, a few friend charges. This it's about what you charge and if you set that price point than stick to it is well, eventually you'll start to see where you kind of fall into the market and how pricing works for you. So working for free and small budget purpose again, what is the shoot for? Is it a good opportunity? And what is the benefit for those involved? Is it portfolio building isn't promotion you're getting or is it? Tadashi this is always speaking about with pricing. If payment as well. If you're working for a client, they need to be purpose. And they need to be benefit when you test in. When you doing advertising what we do in editorial work. If there's, none of these and it's not worth your time. Okay, so always take into account these license and images. Okay. So when you licensed it in an image to a client, whether it's, um, an advertising client, a book cover client who is the client? Do you research on them like tea? And I said about it's, not it's, just like a big time. Do you research on the company? Who's the photographers, that book before. What is the quality of the work where's, the placement in the industry. How will it be used? What's the distribution? How will it be used out? There will be worldwide, you said will be local usage. Will it just be a state? You said you just want to kind of get to know how that image is gonna be used because that's going to affect how you license length of usage is well, is it a six month? Is it a year? Is two years? Is it a buyout? These are determined as well. If someone say t we want to buy out your images, then you've really got to negotiate something with them because they weren't on a ship of those. I try not to let people buy out my images. They're my images that they can part license with something on. Um, when your license in images toe like a book cover, they like that you don't license it to another book cover so you can use that for a magazine accused of an exhibition as long as you're not using it for something else of the same thing. So that's, always important to remember and again distribution used how much so how many copies? If it's a book cover how many copies are being distributed around the world, this will determine how popular the book it will be if it's this many hundred thousand, if it's a million copies. If you know it's, like a bigger number of foot covers that around the world, you'll know how popular the book is, and that they have more of the budget as well. And remember to account for compensating, tellin if necessary and time involved creating the shoot. So as well as all this it's important to remember what your time an investment was into the chute. Did you do? The shoot for free is a test, and now they want to buy it. What was the time involved? And this doesn't have to be your day rate. It just has to be something to consider and consider the budget that you would need to compensate the people involved again. It's. Always good to compensate your team, you model. You do not want over in those connections.