Web & Audience Questions
We have a question very much specifically about the tom sawyer that took out and actually madeleine's he's, welcome back today, she's got this question, saying, what is an example of the tom sawyer effect that you've seen that has really worked? Well, what about one that didn't work well, because that could happen to know that's a great way? Yes, well, one of my favorites is something called quantified self. Kaine defied self, and I know many of you know about meet ups and meet up with such a basic core group. You can see how people can create their own rules, their own, whether it's going to be free or for fee, and it had has had a good run. A scaling up but quantified self is one of my favorite examples of pulling and more at partners quickly and brief, they started one meet up where people come, and they give twenty minute presentations to each other, but how to quantify some aspect of their health and the way they want to track it, especially if they had chronic illness, to see if ...
they could get better faster, because they were not fully satisfied with the prognosis and the doctor's help they're getting and out of that, they had twenty, people at the first event, one hundred twenty at the second, conservatively, that even food there's a man named tim ferriss. He introduced me to it. I went to one. He was so thrilled he was helping move chairs around, get people involved. It is a four hour work week. What they did is they scale because they said, ok, let's, start inviting certain people to present, and so they were like their partners because they realized on a scale not just just to health care but also things about fitness. Wait their sexual habits in a marriage. I must say that was a startling one when I watched how they quantify their level of interest, I could go further, but perhaps not here g rate here, too. Yeah, so but they did hold our attention, so they scaled by bringing in partners with distinctive, different interest of what they want to quantify about themselves. So the core topic helling them together was what aspect of your life to wanna quantify so now, and so I met a person the first time through she had a chronic illness, she said, I want to be one of the three co managers of this site. I have a chronic illness. I want to work with others so she wound up being an effect the sort of manager of it, along with a man named kevin kelly, who it's probably sixty five he's written some of the seminal text books so very different allies, very different styles and a third person, doug was a journalist by background. They said something about this feels good it's now scaled over forty five thousand meetups around the world what just like um, alcoholics anonymous? They have a set format, so they've leverage it and they've honed the format and you can see how to do the format she can have your own here's where it's gone, several university research centers and pharmaceutical companies say, when you scale your studies, your now just not talking about your own butt collaborating on the same study for a very specific purpose, your methods air so concrete and the results of the study seem as accurate and sometimes more accurate than the way we've been actually studying bodies for a certain tests. So they got funding for different people in the group to be involved in a steady angela be yes, my husband recently presented for quantified self media, put together a presentation and very proud and like the night before when he was presenting about, you know, owning your own blood diagnostics and your own data on debt was amazing and he is not he's an engineer he's not in business development but from his work with quantify itself and just his, you know, his own research he's done personally on it he's helping able to help drive some development at the company he works for on dso you know, it did kind of gratified helped him, and then I helped him present to his company which could be considered like a partnership, you know he works them, he partners with them, and it's helped drive their some of their business, and it's it wi I was is a great experience for him feedback smart people are focused on doing something better together at the process, which is one of the things I want to say is you create a distinctive process to your event, then there's something specific to hone it goes back to vice speak in generalizations, I won't get specific and you can't react against in towards things, so he probably it's something very concrete and not only does he help us company, he gets feedback that helps him probably let's see where you're going to add to that and then we'll go. Toto quantified out siding just about that. So I did go toe quantified self meeting about three weeks ago and I did see it and how the partners went to different parts of the room we have oh naps and then the people that attended flocked to the different acts that they were interested in learning about it was really amazing I so wish you hadn't brought that up because it was one of things doesn't bring up later on in the other part, but isn't it helpful to see lean loose to see that people can interact with who they needed to go to specific things they want to learn more about and so that that's the upside and not only that there were several grouchy people or people that were talking too much, but the rules instead of making them wrong made them get in the flow of what the collective ethos was about in the behavior so it evens out and people are happier and higher performing together, but I think it's really important to go after the other side and I have seen several people and usually the biggest reason is they go fast to go slow and they don't vet inaction toe watch what's going on and in the tom sorry effect um I really believe that you start with one person the two of you agree on the third there's a veto factor we're going to the three of you agree on the fourth and if any one of you doesn't want it, then that that doesn't happen and this is where some of the things happened that were just really difficult one person who acted so decent and humble and said he had a certain number of clients and a website um was lying and they're ways we could have checked it out a bit so what he didn't bring any of the assets to the table he was the fifth partner none of them did enough diligence due diligence which they beat themselves up afterwards aa lot so they were far into it that being a cross promotional partner um and for a big event they're going to do where is going to be what I call short consulting um he went in and went from the camera was doing video of other people so he did something that was not what they agreed upon what if that was really cool was the teenage son of one of the other partners I was watching this unfold but it was already too far in him and I was supposed to be up there watching these three boys not say boys if you call him on their boys at sixteen the three of them went over and lock step is if they're having a good time and they grabbed his elbow like this like it locking and they just started take chatting him up and forced him out of the room and they came up with that themselves you don't always get a savior like that um so I just want to say that have the veto factor um and it helps to be also real explicit about the rules because a man who started a large expo in the health food area uh, he they all had put in money in the third stage and one of them withdrew the money just before started, and we couldn't figure out how that happened. So when there's big temptations, I highly recommend a man named dan aerially a r e l y he's, a behavioral scientist who is in a zen enthusiastic about the research and his research models are wonderful he's, a weekly columnist in the new york times, he says, increasingly as the world is virtual it's much easier and more tempting for us to slide down and cheat and steal and lie so we can also learn more about people but a seizure when, for example, I don't still money at the cash register, but I sort of take it virtually the reason I'm saying that is there's a growing number of people that are very good about being warm, specific and untruthful. Kevin dutton, who wrote the wisdom of cycle pass, another brilliant book, he said not all psychopaths are serial killers, he says some of them are high performing executives, military leaders, executives, surgeons because they can so focus and drill down, nothing gets in their way, so I'm going back to this insane, that kind of person is actually great partner if they're not a liar that's that's so people think that they're all liars it's not true so I'm putting these things together and say we want to see what we want to see when I meet people we did the trust and verify that's why even something that's giving you more full exposure? You want to really know what isn't in the picture? A photographer from bhutan went there and took these photographs and then said, I'm going to turn the camera back to these people and give them five cameras and I'm gonna learn how they see themselves and he came back and he started my gosh the all of photographs stopped about here why didn't they have full body then he asked, someone said, because bare feet is a sign of shame because they're poor here's the key point out of that? What am I not noticing as the u s intelligence service does, who are better checking line than any of the place or fbi? They don't look for what's guilty or good, they say what's wrong with this picture. So as a potential partner, I say, is there anything that it totally feels wrong with this picture of what they said, what they've done, how they act follow your intuition you may be really wrong, but why not check it out earlier rather than later? So those are some of the factors that suggest that make us wiser about ourselves and relationship, but others um along the way it's another question that, well, there's many penn islander has posed quite a few really great questions that I hope we have time to get to all of them because they there's a lot of questions in here one was in regards to seeking partnership with someone who is bigger than you are and like you might feel that they look down on you or that you're not quite a their level yet on dh how to reach out to them and see that have them see you as an equal on day went on to just ask, how would you like to be approached if you were being approached by someone who like you? Karrie? Yes, and, um, what is it that you would find interesting, relevant and actionable? And someone seeking your partnership? I'll do the first one first, okay? One of things I noticed when I worked a lot with large nonprofits and foundations and businesses and brought to them together in a room and said let's, learn about pardoning what to d'oh, and I found it so strange that more that people in business learned more about the non profits than the nonprofits had bothered to learn about the businesses and the nonprofits instinct was to beg, I called bag say, will you and the businesses we're talking about distinct, specific ways that they could work together to the mutual benefit clearly carrying about the nonprofits that's why they were there so going back to talking to a big company I think it's vital to be human concrete, strategic and specific all those things so I went to novartis for example, and I got introduced to a friend of a friend of friend and linked in so that's not the closest but each of those people heard about each other heard about me through someone they valued I said of artist, you're coming out with this specific drug it just got approved it's three months at the earliest that you're going to be able to launch it here's one group that you're going after I know you have a huge ad campaign it's just I predict that you d'oh I have two specific partners I think it put a face on that condition in or prime targets to use it one of them sort of suspicious and doesn't like you as a company what if you're actually willing to work with these small groups of people see what they thought be willing to take the risk because I happen to hear that this product is really going to be doing well and if it can do what you got vetted through the fda then it's probably going to be good now the human face of someone that needs it and someone needs it suspicious of you talking about it with their organization could be huge to see I did my homework, I drilled down to a specific situation and a specific need so that's where you get the co equal part is the willingness to drill down to what they're facing as an opportunity or failure when american express had an earlier campaign there's a woman I adore name anita campbell, she runs one of the biggest organizations a small business and she's actually having a bunch of people watch this today small business trends and biz sugar look at biz sugar because it's a technology by which you put in your article and whatever articles get the most yes is rise to the top. I love it. The best stuff for the community gets top visibility considered that as a way to have a platform you could imitate that platform for your focus, inviting your customers your prospects, your partners to do that. So to just finish that out, what I'm suggesting as learn enough to offer something concrete and say I may be totally off base it's because you might be there may be something different, but you want you might want to consider this so american express was going to a time of getting some bad publicity we said, what if you went after the colorful bars like fog city diner cafes and so on around the country distinctive gorgeous graphics people that are loyal have a loyal following and you create a big book. This is before a book times a big book sparked by some event you co host with xi to them. And so they suddenly made more ardent fans of american express among people that became the public face the colorful, interesting parts of american express because they want to go deeper into that market to get more of those people. Then they tied in with the visitors and convention bureau is in the city and said, we want invite the directors of each of them to come, which is vital for them both. So they added on not partners, but participants people that got something special to do that made them look good. We'll talk later about being a media magnet, and it might be a reporter that you'd asked have come. But the goal again is to say, if I want to be treated as a co equal than I should act like one because I can do things they can't. How many have you seen a business that slow to make decisions go? So all the meeting saying I just remember that and as such a bore, so when you hit something where they're on the edge of an opportunity or a problem or you come up with something so distinct. That you know it's a facet to their brand that's helpful? Then you can go in and make the offer, and it may be just two of you small business there's a soloist, but you've got something concrete there, angela be so my question is about two scenarios, so a cz we all said a taste the women here and probably most out there we love to help. So what if you have a scenario where you can think fast, since you can think fast and slow and you can be very helpful while your company is a very early stage so you can give, give, give to all these other companies and maybe in the long run that will work out for you? And and ultimately I just like giving, so it makes me feel good to help people, or I could seize an opportunity where I could receive if they're monetarily or with my company growth sooner. So do I keep giving where it could be a larger like effect in the long run? Or do I focus on myself and how I can partner with people that would help my business sooner? If that makes sense, if the giving your giving isn't relevant to your core market, then I would stop doing it in a start up period if they in it for the giving is an explicit sharing you're bringing out a better part of someone else the research that we've found and I'm sure angela knows much more about this than may the gratefulness isa danek high and when I give a couple times you get very custom tow it and take it for granted and so our goal is to give satisfaction so we can flourish I think you have enough opportunities to carefully pick a partner and grow from the dating to the full power and that's that would be my response to that it takes abounded approach a discipline I go back to why quitters when because I'm talking about it rather than practicing it enough myself which is my segway to that next question my core interest areas are about quote ability and being deeply connected so that's my expertise area I studied that all the time so the things that matter to me is I give paid speeches so they know what I'm on retainer to seven companies in the bay area to coach that out of that comes the partnerships and I coach start ups those my profit centers so you have topics areas and you have profit centers now the people I like to work with our distinct about theirs and they say because of your expertise or this profit center whatever I think we could do this better together would that interest you for where your growth is going? Most of people I'd say ninety five percent don't learn much about me when they asked to do something with me or well I introduced him to somebody at forbes or at huffpo um or tell me how to be a public speaker so you've all had that experience you spent years on your expertise and someone wants free advice and to a certain point that's okay but you know it's not they're going to give back and so that hurts me because I don't want to support behavior of people not having a mutuality mindset so I'm in support of that and that concrete nous they say well I'm sure there's some way I can help you just tell me whether saying is I'm not going to bother to learn about your needs and interests but I should have won I think you'd be good for me so let's partner let's talk about collaborating so I've really worked out new ways and one of my call the cowards exit and I have what's the name of the wonderful woman who doesn't make up like that elisa described her fiance to me analyze it reminds me of my business partner grounded curious adventuresome unflappable patient I do remember these because it's just remarkable so andrew well we'll email him back and say that sounds interesting tell us what you had in mind and then I usually write back and say the same thing oh I just love to work with her well I mean it's flattering but you all have people that you want to have work with you and so I said well yeah I look forward to it so it's called it's called the broken record I look for we look forward to hearing more about what you'd want to do specifically together that's a good starting place for curry and sometimes is up to three times and then he ignores them and it took I said we can't ignore that's not play he said yes we can um so that's still tough but I hope that message gets out to more people can you repeat that something exit what was the phrase of the cowards except cowards x yeah it's not he says that's stupid to quote it him but I feel cowardly but I also I go to the higher part of ourselves I profoundly believe we're all capable of researching somebody else to some degree and his show evidence of that rather than begging god makes only co equal partners that's what one of my clients said he said, well oh I do okay way all have a way to be coequal overtime and if people aren't willing to take themselves seriously enough then we don't want to support them in that chosen weakness uh it's always interesting we have clients and they described what you're doing better than you do or what your thing is about so that's my that there was there another question we have a lot of questions coming in I just saw a question in the chat room from lucy actually on dh she was asking if you see a difference in the way men and women have partnerships and we found it interesting that our entire studio audience are women and maybe what you guys think are the differences in your experiences and of course your response is what I'd like to ask you too, because I must say something pretty comfortable controversial we are willing to help each other, we are warm, we're connective, and when I grew up in male dominated profession, the kind of reporting I did, there were very few of us there was one other for the first five years there's a concrete list that the men and the professions I worked in they would get more explicit and they're huge exceptions now, so I'm going about where there's a title change it's a great question about it, so the instinctive warmth and when I went out on my own after leaving a really high paying job there's so many wonderful women who came and said, I'm so proud of what you're doing, I'm so happy and so great and I had five calls from in the same day in light of that, I think someone you should meet or would this be helpful? I see I think that's changing and this is all his only anecdote. Oh, because I'm an equal number of women and men friends now now I am going to recommend a book, the rise of women, the fall of men, it's, some controversial title, hannah rosa and she's a very good journalist just talking about globally how more women are getting trained, educated and forgoing families in some ways all over the world, including japan and how men, when they fall off the job, it's harder in general for them to get back on flexible and change. So we're going to a title change, and I think there's going to be a lot of micro groups that have different things going on as a pro bono, I work with a micro group that's anonymous of guys that were in their fifties who lost their job and their middle middle level managers and had wives that were angry at them for that and I'm coaching them for free about howto um, look present and jobs because they got so daunted they lost all their mojo to use their thing and it's a sad thing to see in a man or a woman and one of the tools we had us, how they can see, let me part with you and show you how much I can leverage your business to expand in a new market that I know well let me so they learned these things and when you're feeling down you can't even remember stuff said to write it down and practice it over and over again and so I truly believe going back to men and women men and women are more connected across women are more connected across all parts of the brain so we go into situation we come out we saw seventeen things happen a guy saw two no offense it just happens but that also means they can get to work and go do things um one of my neighbors louise present and wrote a book called the female brain somewhat controversial because of some of the conclusions others don't agree to about that big was interesting so I cracked up laughing I want if you can guess where I'm going she then sent me the next book it's called the male brain the book was that big I looked at it and I just cracked up laughing but it's good to follow some of the research because it's controversial and a lot of it may not be well done um so that's my equivocal thing I want to hear from some of you is that ok? But I want to follow up question on that yes, I should just say it's not just me we have three camera guys in the room don't you think guys back in the booth but it is a fairly female orientated show this today but just want what do you also see differences in generations? It is not just a male female thing extreme defenses extreme differences do friedman wrote a book called baby bus came out two weeks ago twenty years study on millennials variances gen x and change and there's so much more openness of flexibility and collaboration that's been going on for almost twenty five years kids that grew up in groups working teams they're more natural collaborative the irony is I will not name the university where I talked this and the people were more adamant against it and talking about it not working with the professor's age forty and older the people would skip the whole first part we know how to do the recruit they largely did where the male and female gen x and millennials they're already doing it their approach to studying was in groups their approach to plays and groups they have a different problem they're trying figure out how you court one on one in some cases in the other one how you a small talk I'm teaching a course at harvard for the beginnings freshman as they come in I thought this was a joke by the way and I said that to them to teach them how to talk small talk it's I don't know how to talk small talk that's what they don't either but couldn't be about communicating to connect I rebelled backto offend my said does this person really a professor there? And I'm so they haven't learned how to have in person conversations a large number of them I think they did fairly well actually before anything I said but that's the perception of people older than them who have an expectation of communication happening in a certain way yeah that's really interesting I think you have the different ways that the generations communicate now it is quite a stumbling block very my forming actually relationships of any kind not just partnership, yes, but it is amazing how the dynamic has changed, but everyone here from somewhere lady says that one last one said he's sorry, yes it's coming up to the is coming up to the fore when they're talking about reverse cross mentoring ice station not just reverse mentor but cross mentor on there's older people in a company that that they've been told they actually learn social media but they're trying to tell people how to tell them and you can't do that and I think that makes co equal partners inside when someone has to be inept and learn from someone else was another part of the organization. Yeah, okay ideas about differences between men and women have a partner yes that's I remember reading a study sometime last week here in silicon valley where they found that for start ups and for technology that they're finding that when there's women in the groups that innovation is faster and more innovative than when it's just men, and so I thought that was good to read that it's a follow up on an earlier study, which is so much suspect, they said, if women are in a group, the group back smarter together, yeah, but the tests that were being done, we're really largely not complex, so a lot of the things you do if it gets more complex, they haven't found a way to do a study on that, okay, those who advocate because obviously a support women, but I do find that especially with myself and so maybe it's just myself that men can be more efficient with their conversation, so they get to the point faster and that and general general grande really men that I've interacted with, where we might be more creative or innovative or, you know, really personal make things personal for one another, but they can, you know, they can get through the agenda happen are faster than we might be able to because we might golf on tangents. I don't know if you guys agree with that, and I think it's a good blanket were generalizations step, and I think that what's most important is to be present and look at each person for who they are um, I'm very feminine, but I'm very direct in my communication mail, so, you know, you know, I don't I don't I don't like being put in a box, and I think most people don't so just be wary of it, I think, general, you know, research and studies are interesting, but what counts is one on one what's your experience, because everybody's had different prime ing there's being rather being raised, I do believe generational things, I have a difference, but it still goes back to a culture of your relevant culture. Yeah, as to what your present with at the person in that point and observe it, it's a great way to round that out, yeah, takes a lot just to be present. Yeah, um, I would say, when thinking about partners is also thinking about who your market is that, you know, I know in education it's, a primarily female market and social media wise, you know, especially twitter there's so much activity among educators on twitter, so it's, a really great place to be really engaged and communicative with that audience, and so I would be really skeptical of going to a partner that was a really male like there's, some really big education firms that I won't name that air, very male dominated and are not involved in that twitter conversation, and so I would be really skeptical thinking about those partners for that bit of a gender consideration just considering who your market is. So I would say that would be a piece to think about as a gender relation to your partner than so let me play devil's advocate and not sure that I agree with what I'm about to say I go backto ann's thing and also the power of contrasts I called the rule of three of three unlikely allies or saying something similar, especially in our connected age there's few things more credible, and so if that large mill dominique company is actually in your market, it's worth one attempt to see if there's anything they're doing because it be so star could be a first ever that they were involved, perhaps that that that doesn't mean to do it, but I think the contrast makes it worth considering for three years tio an agent I was coaching pro athletes happening mostly male, mostly bigger um and I had a lot of biases going in so I'm still resonate with that wet and said on the goal was how they could learn to be quotable about the thing they wanted to do next so they pull in those businesses and professions without appearing to do so by doing metaphor and so on, but going back to the point I didn't realize how prejudiced I was about pro athletes, and so until I got down on one by one and their fears and their assets, and they want out being some great partners for some my other partners, because it's so unlikely to have them be there. One of my favorite ones was with an analytics group where they're highly technical, um, complex living a whole different world mostly sit in front of screens, some of their mostly introverted, to pare that analytic scoop up, which is white hot with two athletes who are quite bright in other ways. And talk about metaphors and gamesmanship. And there's, a book called help the helper, brilliant one about how athletic teams were made to work better together to get sacrificed for the greater whole. So this athlete basically was in stark contrast, and they had prejudiced about each other at first, I said, just see if on these three cain things, how you actually learn to perform better enhance performance, how you learn how your contrast can play with each other. Going back to the friends tv show and just walking in the room, you'll get attention and how you can actually agree to be in conflict there on purpose say we really disagree strongly about couple things we're going to talk about. And so the person was relatively short looking up at the basketball player I'll even named he said sure, go ahead and puts isn't he like that like I almost knocks over? They set it up nice and then and then they talked they showed other disagreed and then they looked at the cameron said, but if we couldn't agree to disagree, we wouldn't trust each other on what we do agree about and this is what we agree about, so I'm saying it because again steps across upon what is the sequence of messaging that you can co create that is captivating and genuine, authentic and post people in I went off topic there I just realized so no, I think it's very on topic remember this talks about you know, how you're finding different partners into some of the different challenges and I think well to use a really old expression that battle of the sexes in some ways still does exist the what the battle of the sexes as they call it does still exist. What do you mean has any of our students I mean when you've partnered with I mean obviously your ladies your ladies in business when you have partnered with males, have you found it a different dynamic in terms of finding a partner? How it's worked and have you had a negative experience is the result of the angeles nodding e yes, obviously don't want to speak of them, but I noticed a little bit of a power struggle when they brought me on. I was brought on to help in leverage my contacts and, you know, really helped develop some of the business. However, then when I would come with ideas, um, they weren't received that well, um but then a few weeks later would resurface as new ideas. Um, so find them or from you from them, which I find, you know, the ultimate mission of my idea was to drive the development of the company. So that happened regardless, but yeah, I noticed little power struggle. Um, even when I was coming at it like this is helping the business. So that's helping us collectively actually leases into really great question that we have from penn islander who's saying what if you show a vision, but they may get your idea, but they take it, and they go around doing it themselves with others like your competition. Now then you have a good idea. Uh, yeah. Um, I think so much is an execution. And even if they do it without you, you can go back and find other partners you can do it with and I think that's why I go back to the set up for they seen the sense of loss, for example before I go to a big company which might go elsewhere with greater ease, I would come in with one to two partners because we're talking about full powered partnerships now that are pretty distinctive and valuable and that we worked it out and I would also start with you're the country we most admire in this sector where we share mutual market. So we want to come to you first about a way that we think would add value to your customers, differentiate you in the market and perhaps increased core customer spending. Others we had three concrete things say let's tell you a bit about it and see if it's a match. So we had the time constraint we had the people here and we done the email so they knew that we knew we had about ten minutes and we were very well aware that they might try to steal the idea. But the set up to say we had some others in mind that were recommended to us, then they know it could be a battle and people want to champion an idea in a company wants the easier way so it's execution easier way set up with the benefits up front there's some cues that you can do that reduce the chance of theft yeah, we had another question from mad lizzie, if you're if you're equal partners, how do you get that top billing status if you have equal partnership? Well, that's, what I was talking about, you can have double billing, but if you're equal partners the beginning, that means one of you came to the other person. So you are the ring later and its position that they say, who else should we go to? I've got some ideas that you might might also have and and that you set it up that way. That's, why you wait a while to see who really rises to have even more value than you thought or value can't offer that's going to be significant to take it forward, and to be honest, unfair you say I've been doing the building is a founder of this, we should be co built in this, we should share it again. I go slow to go fast because people have different rhythms. Some people give up front and they wander off, some people grow into something and they they're richer and their ideas and their execution and the pockets they have so it's much better even for ring leaders say this has grown so much, I think we're all a family of equals and let's highlight the different aspects of what we're collectively doing. Um, let's, keep the veto power about new ones and let's have co equal billing, so you have different options, but you're being explicit about it. Um, I believe in rules of engagement, I believe him for any team, I believe that when I'm ever working with a client, if you can have me work with this group, let's have rules of engagement about how will agree to talk a threat to the conversation, for example, so I don't go off another tangent, I respond to what you just said, another one is always be on time for the meetings, period, another one is disagree specifically and offer a better alternative. Another is don't personalize that well, I think that wouldn't that's not too good an idea by them labeling something say this. I'd have preferred this way, or have problems were wondering about if we could do this with this. So just the last decide on that when we talk in an emotional state were more likely to use emotionally vivid words when we're being negative than positive, and yet the power the negatives five times more intense, at the least. So whether in saying you're late to the meeting again to say, since we're starting ten minutes after nine, how would you reorient to things we want to accomplish? See, I say the fact I had the power of the problem back to them to help solve this is just part of the dialogue when your partners with people give people a place to save face and self correct, she have room to s kite now a really interesting question about then we'll come back to the audience and talking about being the ring ringleader, yeah, being the leader on also finding the partners of equal, but where you're going to get tough disability, but how do you get others to chase you instead of cold approaching them? It wasn't much more powerful to get them when you're when they're coming after you. Well, I learned something inadvertent that might be helpful to several people here, and that is when I mentioned getting on twitter, citing certain people, even on twitter, which I think it still is a shock to me intelligence sighting of smart people admire several is people have approached me to say I looked you up on other places, I think we may have some things we could do together, and they offered us a specific so I think just being one of a kind joe calorie joe callaway wrote a book called category of one a brilliant book you wantto have set up your partnership or your brand it's so distinctive that's why I say it's not that you're a masseuse you're doing this distinctive angle of being a masseuse who focus on wellness and I hope there's the third set for certain kinds of people like busy working professionals couples that both work or singles so the more you do that triple down part your distinctive and you stand out so I believe the rule of three about three facets to no one else does those three you talked earlier about having technical know how and also being able no certain content areas so different ones of us have it we've crossed over so that's the way I would take it now you mentioned seemed a service and a few people in the chat rooms they're asking if you can just dive into that a little bit more of a concept they don't quite understand sure seamless means you know it's seamus fabric that this is where the seam is it doesn't show that much seamus means I don't have to go through it to a different place I don't have to research something else you've served a situation oftentimes but you've made it more seamless I can do it all together I can get it so one example is I truly believe some people working so hard they would like to have a collective indulgence stay self indulgence so it's someone go get em a size some of them go to have wonderfully does just food they like somewhere someone just like the other toenails painted man, I'm sure, um, but there's, certain things we like to do, but if you're distinct about your market, how can they all do it better together? How can they go to one place in canada? There's whole chain out of people used to own barber shops now gone into men's hairstyling, and they just focus on men, and they have men's night once a month where they actually have the tv on. They have different foods, they have, they actually topics people talk about from that chair. We've had different features with different partners, and it's been wildly successful because they're doing something that while they're there, and by the way, one guy said, I want to surprise my wife, you said we could ask for special services while here, can someone do my toenails and because you want to go? And he just was reporting that told them the story about you're so startled or she came in, I was in the kitchen helping cook, she looked down and there were my pink toenails, and she just thought it was hilarious, so it starts a convivial ality and community there, so seamless means that it's, easier for you to connect for years, I thought it was wonderful and that there's dwindled, but that a senior center where people lived in the same retirement center co located with a pet shop and grooming shop co located with the kindergarten I mean co locate me there's commons communal space they didn't know what would happen, but it was really became a popular place where people came and she didn't have to look a lonely if you're coming out, you could sit and eat something these small tables with three other people and people walk their dogs through and say, could you help us? We're doing the talk training so all kinds of friendships came up that were multigenerational, she think how can we do something where if they skip steps, they see one service in conjunction with another? Well, you've been doing that a bit, um and it can happen all online as well. You may have a thematic day or thematic week that ties in was something and you say, why don't you have this kind of indulgence? Don't you want to get all the boring things done at once here's a set of things that we can take care of because anybody starting a business may want to have a website a responsive designed mobile version, but they may also want to be tutored on how to use social media and they may want a couple of other things so there could be a variety of partners specifically focused on start ups of creative professionals or stud ups. And I would go after the markets that are neglected. Plumbing. Um, electrician's, home repair people, um, veterinarians, very poor and doing their outreach. And that goes back to that passionate people that their pets.