High Volume Senior Photography
First, while we all three businesses in photography, so we don't kevin miller photography, which is the one that was established in seventy two that does. The majority of our work is through that, but we've also sub branded, and we have a loose of our which is our boudoir line. And we also have a photo booth business that we rent out. Like I said, the city was established in nineteen seventy two. We currently have seven full time employees and it's far seniors go. We average about two hundred a year on top of one hundred plus family sessions. We d'oh and the three hundred boudoir sessions we do. We're very, very busy. Studio kimmitt miller photography shoots, weddings. Thiss wedding was shot on ah, the day that the metrodome caved in was this ridiculous blizzard two hundred forty guests r s v p d and I think that sixty show up because no one could get there is insane. We should families, babies. Um, and we also have a pretty substantial volume sports business. So this is some of the sp...
ort's posters that we dio um I just love this chubby kid so much. I just think he's amazing remar, are you wrestling? Stuff and then that's my baseball team with our logo on it they won last year, so we're proud of them but that's the stuff that commit mueller photography does, but today, of course we're going to talking about specifically our high school senior stuff and one walk you guys through a big overview of all the steps we do to get our business. So first things first when you're setting out to do senior portrait to kind of me to figure out what your sessions are going to be that's going to be your first entry point into what people are going to see as their shopping. So the thing that we decided to do is try to be really, really unique. We wanted to be different than what other people are doing in our market, so we have absolutely no session fees and we have no packages, so our business model it allows us to stand out on our differences and that's something we really start driving home the moment that we start talking with our clients when you price things differently, you make it harder for people to turn you into a commodity. And so for example, like, if you charge a session pinnacle of your studio and I say, hey, junior is going to be a senior this year, I'm just curious how much does your session cost? One hundred bucks okay, cool on dh. How much is your eight by ten's? Fifty bucks. Okay, great. If she called nine other studios in gets fifty dollars session fee and twenty five dollars, eight by ten or three hundred dollars session fee and one hundred fifty dollars by ten she can very easily put you on a spreadsheet and figure out who's worth what? And people do shop on price. So by doing it this way, we stand out, um and our business is based on minimum orders. That's how we make sure we had taken to the cleaners on it. So every session that we have does have a minimum order, and it is ultimately easier to get people to spend more money with you being based off of minimum orders. Um, our pitch is really basic it's like, no, you really don't have to spend any money to get your photos done here. You just gotta buy a lot of stuff on legal no, like, of course, we are actually saying that to our clients, but that is basically the pitch is like when they call and they're comparing us other studios it's like, well, yeah, but they're charging you just to take your pictures we would never do that oh my god, you're paying money and you don't get anything for that oh that's crazy coming here no no no no no no we are not charging for that picture that will take him for free honey, you just gotta buy some stuff uh so I want to walk you through our sessions we have four basic sessions are small sessions called the you pick we photograph it insider studio or outsider studio the client will get its pitched his tent images in reality they get twelve it's two outfits and it takes about half an hour to shoot so this is a session that I've done I realize is that is putting together my slideshow for this that I picked like all red heads so I just want to make sure you guys know that's not like an exclusive thing for our studio we also photograph are double up which is double the outfit double the images double the time we do it inside and outside around the studio and the minimum orders adjusted one hundred dollars this is our most popular session for guys are third session is get me out of here. That's what we're actually going to d'oh it's thirty images of course they get like thirty five in reality we overdeliver it's up to six outfits and we shoot inside and then we're gonna go on location so we're going to go to locations that we have picked out we have the depot which has like a lake and docks and boardwalk stuff like that, which is more popular for the guys. And then we have the arboretum, which is actually like the best thing for photographers in minneapolis. It's two hundred bucks a year, they have, like, four waterfalls and six hundred acres of gardens and it's. Amazing. And it happens, be ten minutes from my city. Um, so that's, the big one for the girls and again, the minimum order goes up one hundred dollars. She did not want to do waterfall images, which is really unique. We have our city life. This is our big one. We don't sell too many of them. It's more outfits, it's as many outfits as you want toe where in reality it's like five or six. Usually they don't change that often because we're driving around downtown. See if the change in your car but you get forty images and really look at like forty eight somewhere around there. Um and it's inside we go downtown. So syria a guy do it. He's, also a hobbyist photographer had a newer camera to me. Sorry. So as you see, like the more time we spend with our clients, the higher the minimum order goes and the more images they get to see. To pick from to have any questions about this okay cover it coming up but how do you handle someone comes to you says well I want a discount I want to reduce rate but you might be jumping on that later on yeah have you there no uh this kind of what you haven't ordered anything argues you animal minimum number no no eso actually too that I use that in my favor because I always say to people like way are going to get on this in the booking part but like a lot of times people calling me like, oh, well your your minimum orders this and we said no remember you aren't paying me anything I haven't bought anything you weren't paying me any money your minimum water is just a promise to spend that amount. So in reality, if you end up spending five hundred dollars, you could have gotten our biggest session for free it wouldn't cost you a thing. And so a lot of our small sessions move up to bigger ones because we're able to plant that seed like there's no charge so I can't discount because even bought anything a scar is like discounting our products and stuff we don't typically do that because we have a really strong incentive pricing model and I'll walk you through that in the sale section oh yeah, you're forty images yep, that means forty ships are I'm a big believer in variety and I want all my clients like this is no offense to a lot of photographers out there that shoot this way but I get a giggle when I like seniors coming there like oh I saw my friends senior session and she had three hundred pictures and I'm like all was it like six where she's up against the tree like this and then five where she's like this and then to where she's smiling big and when we're see serious and then this and it's like it's one picture is one seen everything we show our clients is a different pose a different background or different expression so nothing's the same so we aren't a team good no we get it and we show them one um once you've done your session you have to show your clients your images we stay away from projection and we stay away from online viewing I think that online viewings absolutely the fast way to kill yourself I mean if you want with minimum orders if I had online sales I would always have my minimum order and I would never get anything more than that because your client is going to be able to sit at their leisure and go through and they're really going to be able to watch the price and it's going to just kill your sales it doesn't work for us on both projection it's like such an investment to get all the people in and I work nine to five I don't want to come in late, and so if you're having a senior high school senior investments actually get mom their dad, their grandma's got to come in because this is gonna be your opportunity to see the pictures. So all the important decision makers need to be there. Well, it doesn't work with when I want to work, because that's usually means that we're gonna have to come in late at night and do these long sales sessions. So we did prove books like riel proof books, which, again is is unique in our market. So are proof books are five by seven it's a four by six image in the five by seven and its spiral bound we're a bigger studio, so we actually do have a lab. I have my own merits to detain all five. So we we do print and produce this in house, um, and it's kind of ah, again, away that we stand out when you go to prove bookmark, or when you go to proof books over projection, it also ends up being a huge marketing tool for you, so when are people most excited about their pictures? The moment they see them, like that's, when they're just like oh, I love it. This is my baby and their amazing, and I love it if you're doing projection and they have this great, huge emotional high, and they're loving all the work you did, and then they go toe t g I friday's afterwards, and they got nothing to show their friends, and they go to work, and they're got this big rush about how much they love your photos, and they can't tell anyone because you aren't doing an online, and they weren't there in the projection, like in the meeting, so giving them approved book allows them to take this proof book toe work. It goes toe p t a meeting that goes to baseball games, it goes around, and it allows your client's effectively to market for you without knowing their marketing for you again. It's unique, it stands out and there's no one else in my market, that's doing the big proof books that I know off. I know there's a couple other people that do like four images on a five by seven, stuff like that, because they shows so many proofs that's, hard to do it cost effective, and it really helps us up sell the experience, so we use it as like, you don't want to go somewhere where you're going to get sold to we're gonna let you go home and look at your images and then come back and place your order so quick question down that from karen mitt who says nice jeans and my shirt as well thing with you and gene who picks the images that they see in those provoked and again do they get to keep them okay um the proof look does end up being part of our incentive pricing we're going to talk about it on deck at the end of the at the end of the program um the images we pick the images that go in there it's our job as a professional photographer to deliver the highest quality images so sometimes people really they don't believe you you know they don't like oh I want to see all of them on going to talk a little bit more in depth with this but I'm like a one and done shooter so overshooting is like one of the deadliest sin you can commit in my city if you work for me we don't shoot three hundred photos and give him thirty we're shooting a much lower number of photos how many times do you see people like when you hang out because I'm sure all of you have photographer friends like me and you like going you second shoot a wedding with one of your friends and they're like click click like it's perfect one more it's perfect so we don't overshoot on dh that cuts down a lot on people asking to see other ones because we generally don't shoot a lot more than that so, um when I started working on my program for this, I was thinking about all the stuff that people talk about in senior photography I think about all the programs that I've seen and I see a lot of attention focused on like social networking for marketing and they see a lot of people talking about using facebook and twitter and instagram and pinterest in truth be told, I don't really hear anyone talking about direct marketing, direct mail marketing anymore and it's still really, really effective for us and I think for a lot of people that are just starting out in this industry, it seems like this like mountain of work and there's no way I can do that, I'm just starting out or I don't know what to do I don't know how did you win? But in reality it is ah, a hugely effective way to get your workout in book sessions so I want to talk to guys about the things you need to do to do enough to have an effective marketing campaign first of all, you need an accurate list I mean, if your list is junk, it doesn't matter anything else if you aren't getting it to the people that need it um there's no reason to do it I had another photographer in my community got a senior marketing brochure for his kidneys kids like twenty four so s so they were a little bit late and that's just wasted time, money and effort to get a brochure or somebody that there's no way they're going to use your services so making sure you have an accurate list is crucial we are able to get our lists from the public schools in minnesota and our market you can just call up the public school and you could say, hey, I want a list of your upcoming seniors um they do not have to give it to you for free, but they've got to give it to you um so in my area the price ranges from free to fifty bucks s o I sent a check to the district hey here's my here's my check I want my list send it to my printer and one thing that actually we haven't done yet I'm really excited to try it next year I love photographing senior boys and a lot of people like lament about five three senior guys I like I think it's great because a I couldn't get them to knock the poses out really quick because they want to leave like so my sessions go really fast so I know I could make the kid look good so mom's gonna buy and three, they're overlooked like no one's really marketing to guys. And so next year we're actually going to do gender specific mailings because we can get that information from the district we can say, hey, can you break it up, boys and girls? And we're going to target guys hard next year within our market because I think it's really overlooked. Um, so get your accurate list, you have to have a great mailer like even though less and less photographers are doing direct mailing, they still get a stack and you still have to stand out. So you have to figure out what your mailers going to, how is it going to be different without breaking the bank and putting the mailer or breaking the bank, mailing your mailer out in three and has to have a call to action? You gotta have a reason to get people up and off their butts to call you and book your session because I find that once they actually call you in the book your your session, and they got the retainer in there, done shopping, anything else that comes in the mail, any other brochures, anything else they don't care, senior sessions booked, we're done, we're moving on, so I want to walk you guys through our miller. Perfect cause I was just going to ask you for anything you love. What were some of the calls to action exactly that you have found most valuable yeah awesome. So our brochure is a quad fold brochure it's actually like twenty seven and a half inches wide and eight and a half inches tall so it folds up and it just looks like a regular envelope when it's all done unfolded um that's what's on the outside what's mailed to you right away it's focusing on the things that make our city a unique we have no session fees we have no packages we want to drive that home um as you open up the brochure it's gonna walk you through what you need to do to book with us well, you need to review the different sessions we offer you need to call us with a credit card so that we can take your retainer tells you what credit cards we take and it gives you just some basic photography tips things I'm sure you guys all know like don't spray tan in the parking lot before we do your pictures uh, no you shouldn't come in like you're makeups readies go out to the club on friday night like that's not gonna look good um because you go in we have all of our sessions laid out explains to that and it also has our monthly specials on it um and our calls to action like I don't shoot any seniors in may I don't there's still in school like they don't get out of school until june, but we sent out our first maler than just cause I want to be one of the first things one of the first companies on people's mind so all the twenty percent off your first order um and like really a photography we have the margins of your pricing is good if you have good pricing on your stuff, you can afford to do to discount like that, but I never give it up because they never book it it's just something that's there because it's like, oh, look at how great of a deal we could be and then when mom's calling to book that we say ok, we gotta put your session for may and we go, oh well, we can't do it until july well it's a different promotion so that promotion will still get them to call even if they don't take that promotion. June it's ten percent off still the same minimum order it's just ten percent off your order there is ten percent off your price july you get thirty free graduation cards in august to get fifteen these are some of the best ones we have, um because they make people come back to you like in the spring and they already have essentially placed an order with you but generally we sell way more than thirty grad cards way more than fifteen so it's an opportunity for them to come in and get their free stuff but again they spend money with me and they leave really happy it's great experience haven't come back as you flip over our brochure this is the back side of it my favorite part about our brochure is that this image right there is a real size eight by ten so it's by far like an impact image like when you're going through mailers you're going to really buy ten from me and everyone else that sending the smaller flood flyers you just can't really compare because they don't have that big image walks you through our retouching and things we dio and we treat guys like guys um we do include our basic pricing in our brochures which I know a lot of people argue you know I don't want to give away my pricing because I want them to call and talk to me about it for us um I found that giving away the pricing right away um people feel like there's not a gotcha moment like I think that people want to know what they're going to spend when they come to you and so I think that if you just do the whole full disclosure for me at least like if I'm looking at using you for something, I want to know what I'm going to spend, whether it's a lot or a little, I want to know so and then we also have our contact information, like everywhere on our, like every page has our phone number because our email address has our website because we want to make sure that nobody's flipping around trying to find that may be the dumbest reason and out of someone call you, um we also do a second mailing now this we do later on in this is after we started photographing kids from the schools, we customize them for each school. So this is a girl from wise eta that just went to that school, and I think that has been held over there. These mailers, we offer another promotion where we do a free collage if you get that collage void that all other offers, we get the frames from evolved framing I think they're like seven box and I print in house so it's a buck eighty for the print, so I'd like nine dollars, into it, and this gets a phone ringing in big time in the back of it has a q r l code that we loaded in one of our sticky album abs you guys use sticky albums? Yes, yes, yes, no ok my wife's here and she's going to get mad at me for saying this because she warned me not to because she said I don't really arrogant when I say that well like we make so much money I'll pose I think she's getting daggers right now weighed a ton of money off of this for our boudoir line it's like through the roof like for incentive pricing the sticky album stuff it's crazy for that like we make a lot of money off of this stuff will you explain matthew what's sticking albums are people yes so sticky album if you take your phone or whatever when you get our mailer you're going to scan this code in and open it in so far your chrome if you've got a droid or an iphone and it actually installs an iphone app or droid app or whatever works on all smartphones um that's one of our food wall ones this is our senior one so does different branding was kind of done like the white pier it isn't stuff for our family and kids and the dark devilish girls for the boudoir so it loads an app on the phone and as you click into the app we loaded up with pictures of kids we've done from that school the year before so we picked one picture of each kid it'll play it as a slide show if you want you can zoom in on the images still, um and what's really cool about it to one of my favorite parts is that it actually downloads the whole app to your phone so it's cool about these is you don't need a network connection you don't need wifi you don't need anything once it's on your phone it's there forever um and it allows it gives you like our phone number you can email us directly through it as well that gives them the option to share it via facebook, twitter, email whatever they want theater thing we did this year just for fun was we actually you can embed a file into it so we had a girl come in and we decided to do a little flip book session um to show off and like embed this file into our marketing so this was one way way together together wait a second wait and feels so good to be with you wait times good friends that way so just uh something we decided to do for fun it was kind of a last minute idea of this year's like be kind of cool to dio I'd seen it done on youtube there's like a melissa and glitziest video that went huge viral on that hers is a little bit race here then weeded andi I know it was kind of hard to see at the end because it's from a youtube file but she just wrote hard class of twenty fourteen and signed it um so that actually went out on all of our brochures to so you got the whole lap and you could flip through all the images and then you could watch that video if you want it so cool any questions? I do have a question a couple questions online, matthew and then just to clarify for folks so do they get a personal app if they spend a certain amount of money? Is it ok? Yeah, ok. Yeah. That's on that's built in for our food wa pricing if they by any of our packages they get it but it is just to spend a certain amount of money you get it with our senior stuff so you get it for free, ok? Otherwise the price that it's like stupid expensive to buy downtown there's no reason you would buy it on its own. So it's part of an incentive? Yeah. It's part of our incentive. Okay, okay. And just tio clarify again how you've got a couple people may have missed how you got the mailing list to get that accurate mailing. Okay, so like, legitimately we can just call the school district's in our community and say like, hey, I need your upcoming seniors like it's a free now that I think that I think that they have to think a lot of places it is because it's public records it's a public school government ron you know what I mean? It's it's information I don't know is that internet let me know that I like to live in this weird bubble that allows us to do this none of you can I can't believe that it's like I there are a few schools in our area that make it harder to dio because they just don't want to do it but yeah, they must have tio so maybe I I was thinking of doing what you're doing but I was thinking they are minorities therefore it would need parental okay or for like privacy I take him up for this but the list for the list yes, I believe that you can opt out of the list as a parent, I believe that you can deal with your school but that has nothing to do with me. So you you as a parent have to deal with your school district on that. Um I'm a third party have nothing to do with that. So and then as far as like the images that go in our stuff parents of the sign an invoice when they pick up their stuff our invoices model release it's on the invoice so you sign it it's good ok, because that question had also come in in terms of getting permission to use for advertising purposes so our invoice has a model release on it and you have to sign your invoice and like obviously somebody's like o'donnell elmo kid but most parents are just the coal he's julian your brother so cool going to get one yeah you're gonna have time whatever they know what he's really good at it lay people don't freak out about that they're like oh I got my kids so hot yea so matthew do you know if you have to have a business license to get that list or can a freelancer get one this was from charlene I've never been asked for my license okay so go ahead and give it a track yeah but yeah I've never been asked for it um I mean I guess give it a world if that's all you need getting like a business license and certainly it's really like taken afternoon and do it it's not it's not that much work if that's what the barrier of entry into this profession and into you doing this then I mean go to panera have a panini open up your free wifi your I've had and fill out the forms and send it in and mail in your hundred dollar check it's not that big a video just do it so before you get the work flow just a couple more questions if you don't mind on on this s o from from brand muffin so what again was the call to action for clicking the cue our code and then and then explain again the fifty free wallets if they showed the video, how does that work? Yeah, it's just a promotion we have at the end we have multiple like marketing campaigns throughout every senior year, so we have that first one that goes out that's like the free graduation cards of the ten percent off or whatever and then we have the second miller that goes out that the ten by twenty collage and then we have the digital media that went out that's for fifty three wallets in reality, I don't care like you can pick whichever one you want, you can't get all three and so they do exclude each other on dso we'll have people that come in and they'd be like, well, I got this and I also got this and we just say, ok, do you want this or do you want this like it? Because it's they exclude each other but it's just a way to keep different promotions out to keep it fresh. And how do you know if they showed the video up to get those fifty free wallet let's be honest, I wouldn't really care if anyone else I wouldn't that's not a mountain to fight on cool you said he did it all right, you said you have got cool, yeah, I'm runnin here's your fifty wallets of those seniors that you have what's kind of the rate of families coming in like a guest the repeats do they come in usually looking for some sort of incentive to are they we have a significant like we have good repeat customers we also get a lot of parents that come in off of that have gone other photographers in our market now rarely do I hear we went to so and so in the pictures were bad almost never hear that so I don't hear issues with photography but what I do hear a lot of times is I saw that you don't do packages and we got locked into a package with joe schmo and we did buy this stuff we didn't want so we thought you were a better option or for us to get all the things that we wanted we ended up having a vice if we didn't want so our marketing piece kind of is attractive to people that have gone through it before if you get into I'm not throwing stones of your businesses that you sell packages and you don't want to modify your packages that's that's your business model that's great but for us it makes us more attractive to the people that had that experience so good questions so all right so let's talk about so do you have customers asking for the dvd we do and we do sell it ok and um this is a little bit off topic, but I'm just going to tell you that this is my personal belief on selling digital images, okay, um, the standard argument I've always heard about selling digital files or not selling digital files, or should we do it as an industry, or shouldn't we do it? A lot of times I hear the argument well, we can't sell it by tens for one hundred bucks because it's too big of a mark up and it's a rip off to your clients, and then the argument that's back is, well, you don't pay for the paper, you pay for the art, so to me, by telling people we won't sell the digital file, we're making it about the paper we aren't making it about the art, we aren't making it about the way that you want to share your images and what you want to do with that. So the argument that we shouldn't sell digital files because they buy the art, not the paper actually for me makes it like was an easier decision for me to do that, but I like true religion jeans, and I like going on vacation, and I like eating out and I don't want to make less money, so you have to find a price in my pricing is what I've set up with my business, and it it's perfect for what we're doing and it's our happy price and when we go through our price and in more detail, you might be like so one thing I found when you talk about a scene with photographers, you be like, I charge fifty bucks for this and one guy's giving you only charge fifty dollars how do you live in a box? Oh my god, how do you survive? And then you turn to the woman next I could never charge fifty dollars has so much money and so on think is business and make moves his business and be conscious of what your costs are and make sure that you are profitable it's not a hobby we're not hobby photographers we are professional photographers, professionals generate income and if you could make a million bucks a year selling digital files selling um and I don't think that makes you any less of a professional photographer, so but that's just my opinion, I'm sure the chat boards are lighting up with a bunch of the bag on that like, I'm probably crashing the server right now like facebook walls like all these I hate you, I love you all right let's talk about work flow because this is absolutely, positively like my favorite part of business like I'm obsessed with work flow everything in a busy city of has to have a set process like everything and everything I shouldn't say I think the back everything in your business whether it's a big business or a little business everything in your business should have a process whether you're one person operation whether you are just starting out or whether you've been doing it for fifty years and you have a huge studio, you have tohave set procedures and ways that you work um like I said, it's my favorite part so they could talk about this all day um so I want to talk to you about like our workflow specific to booking a sec because this is big like this is when we start our interactions with a client like yeah, they've gotten word of mouth and they've gotten our brochure but this is when we start hanging out with start talking we start being buddies so first things first they pick up the phone they call and it's like emmett miller photography what's going on hey, we want to book a senior session awesome. What session are you looking to book? We always ask which session they want a book because that effects how much time we spend which effects are availability now if they say I want a book with the double up which is inside outside around our studio, I'm pretty sure I can get them to go up to the next step almost always we could make that jump because like I said earlier we just remind them remember if you end up sunday one hundred dollars over your minimum order he could've gotten us for free and who knows how great those images would be what if we could go to the waterfall when that great uh she's gonna love it you would be the best mom ever um so we always start guiding them towards the next biggest session but if it doesn't work it doesn't work whatever um we also book in your proof book pickup having deadlines is crucial with everything in your business and this is actually something that we first started with our weddings and something got from my friend gentle and gay what up, jen um so once you set a deadline with your clients they never called to ask if it's ready they never call and so when I was doing weddings at first you know I'd be like ok, yeah your images will be ready in like two to three weeks we'll give you a call when you come by and pick it up ten days later I get a phone call hey, um he met you I know you said it was going to be two to three weeks but I didn't know if you were working ahead and maybe they were done can we come pick them up today no I'll call you and then you say that politely and you hang up and then four days later hey have you invented weeks I did you said two to three weeks I'm sure they're done now no we'll call you so once we started just saying your stuff done on the eighteenth at two o'clock I don't get phone calls I don't get him and it's a great way to set expectations with your clients if they know like and I don't care if it takes you two weeks or six weeks to get a final order out if you give them a deadline that sets the expectation by the client they know what you need to do your job the only problem is that you can't mess it up you got to hit that deadline like there is no excuse that's going to be okay for you did not make that deadline so if you say you need two weeks you probably really should only need one you know it should be done a little bit early but you got to make sure that you have headlines because it just makes your life easier and it makes the customer experience better because they know what to expect and we take the retainer on the phone fifty dollars it's non refundable and it gets applied georgia minimum order but once we have their money you know generally we have like one or two maybe that'll be like um we're going to do it on our iphone in the backyard but it's a nonrefundable bowl retainer and once we get that money they stopped looking you know so it's just easy on the date of the session soon as the client comes and we welcome them and we take their money so hello joe you're ready for your session it's gonna be great I mean, three hundred forty nine dollars before we start the reason why we do this though it actually has a lot to do with the psychology of the client experience so once I go through your session and we're hanging out and were photographing for an hour two hours like I want you to leave feeling like like I'm your buddy like we have fun we went we drove around town, we went to the waterfall, we did some alley shots, I showed you some stuff it was really, really cool I don't want to then turn it into the business transaction I want you to leave with the I just got done hanging out with my buddy and so we do all the business up front and then we hang out and hang out as photography so once we get that and that also means that I have your entire minimum order in my bank account before I click the shutter like it's in there so I'm guaranteed that I am going to sell at least four hundred dollars off your session do you only take the minimum order than or do you take more than that? You know you can always always theo did you just say we'll do the minimum order now and then you can always pick more stuff later yeah, so generally what happens on we're talking about this a little bit more in sales but I'll go over right now our minimum orders like with our incentive pricing our incentive pricing really ends up dictating our minimum order more than our minimum order we have it so that you don't get to keep your proof book until we get to five hundred bucks um you can buy it, but why would you buy it if you can just get it for free by or being yourself and the price point that it's that it really only would make sense for you to buy it with our smallest session that's the only one where it might financially be better for you to buy it other other than just spending the money. So, um do you ever find people are indecisive because they haven't seen the images yet because they've been created? No because you know you have to understand that most people are coming to you it's one hundred ninety nine dollars I mean like for a minimum of one hundred ninety nine dollars like that's not a lot of money that's really not a lot of money like we goto like by domino's for the guys at work I'm friday that's like thirty bucks just for domino's you don't I mean two hundred dollars to document your child senior year of high school nothing write the check I mean two hundred sixteen come on two hundred bucks so no and you get some people I guess that are always gonna complain justcause there's people that are always going to complain and so you have to be prepared to take that but in reality our customer base the people who we have coming now don't complain about it well and that's similarly a question that came in from carolee like what do you tell the customer when they ask why they have to pay up front? I just say that's the absolute minimum I can make to do your session happily and that's it that's the least amount of money I could make teo the happily do your session and and it's generally I don't believe that you should really have to fight that hard for your clients to I mean if you're I have been a full time photographer since two thousand four um my dad obviously had done a long, long time before me, but since I've taken over his business there have been a few customers that I've had to fire that were clients of my dad that like we just which they only want to work with my dad no matter what I do it's not good enough like and great images and they complain about pricing even if the pricing was this same that it was on my dad on the play's s so there's always going to be you're going to run into those but I don't believe in fighting for your clients like they should want like this is a fun job we hang out and take pictures and photoshopped like what's not to love about this like it's I was juggling my wife has a grown up job she doesn't get to wear jeans and just look at a computer screen all day and granite says not to worry about shaving but like like, you know she has to go to work I I'm a photographer like I had a cool job and how many times you guys need people and you're like I'm a photographer in there like ah, I love that I bet you have a really nice camera it is on yeah great, but no so I don't want to fight that hard too, because if there's that many red flags that are coming up and they're already trying negotiate for a better price or they're already at a kid that came in one time and it's a little bit off track will take it as a sorry because it's one of my favorites so they came in for a pre client consultation they just wanted to see the studio they wanted to go through how we do this so we walked through everything mom and son get on great they leave um the mom calls talks a couple more questions she seems cool everything's wonderful they come in the day of the session sessions at three o'clock three o two I'm not king three o two they come in the door I am so so sorry we're late he's been arguing with me on everything and I can't get him out of the door and blah blah blah blah blah and I'm sure we just messed up your schedule for the rest of the day it's like two minutes honey gets all right so we went downstairs and we started picking out outfits which is what we're going to go through next but they mom says he's been playing the violin since he was you know, to I want tuxedo pictures violin I want that kid wants nothing to do with tuxedo pages and violent hates the idea hates it so I'm like we get him in his tux and I take him upstairs and every time we get the camera on on he's like this and I'm like come on dude, you're killing you sound like you know a big smile come on easy and I'm not and so it was going bad like the whole session was just not going good so we went downstairs and the mom and I went downstairs to set up some lights and he was going to grab something from the dressing room so the mom walks down serious and starts complaining to me already about the photos and there she goes oh, I just I hate these photos we need to schedule a retake session I've taken four photos of your kid but you haven't seen anything like give me give me a little bit of slack here and so I said, where is it? Well mom, you know sometimes like people just don't vibe well and maybe you guys they're just having an off day and maybe you could go upstairs and just have a coke and relax and we'll finish this session and the kid walks down he goes yeah mom, go get a coke and sit down theo mom picks up her purse and leaves the studio I have to drive this kid around town now because they're signed up for a big session soon is the mom leaves smiles come up great he's happy to be there and we crushed the session so in the end I think the point is that you really need to work on establishing that connection with your senior and if people are already coming to you with issues if you you have to be able to identify them and know that you're beating their issues andi think that's a lot of it in the communication and setting yourself up to succeed by take a mom out by the way kid came in for the organization of this mom they were best friends they came in for grad cards they were best friends came in for family session they loved each other that david couldn't handle each other so we're going back to this once you take their money we're going to go through their clothing options we're just gonna look ok, you know? Yeah. Couple pairs of jeans got sure it's got this what's gonna look good here we're gonna determine what we're gonna wear outside inside what's gonna go in waterfall, whatnot then we nail it in the camera and I mean like, nail it in the camera and I assume you guys are all on facebook and you're all in like photography groups and you probably have, like ten thousand friends that are all photographers and you get the same news feed every like every sunday oh my god, I'm editing twelve thousand wedding photos you go to bed and it's like, well, then get off facebook and do your work you are in that busy you're just wildly ineffective no seriously though like I can't stand um click click click click click click click click click click click click click click I'll pick the best one if I was a customer, I would have a problem with that it took thirty two pictures um ah lot of people think that the customer experience that like by taking all those pictures but that that noise the shutter mates they like to hear that and they think that that's part of the climb experience it isn't the client experiences the relationship you build and the images you deliver and if you do that in ten pictures and give them amazing work you're great photographer that's not wasting any time so I don't know about you guys I got I shoot a cannon five d mark three and there's actually this like little screen on the back of the camera it's three inches it's amazing so what? I take a picture I can look right there and see if the eyes are closed and see how my lighting looks and see the expression that I got in the post that I got in the background that I got and I can go through and determine if that's a good image or not if it's not get rid of it deleted his leads in camera all the time all the time like imagine how much time you would have if you never to call another session what if you only shot when your clients got now that's like a scary like indiana jones the leap of faith remember the last so andres like it's terrifying the first time you have to do it because it's like it's like your binky want to hold the extra clicks you get it I really do but like challenge yourself I swear to god just go out and just try it with like even do partial do five poses a one shot call up your body someone then you guys have kids they're friends have kids right? You can call him up try it and your goodness it's it takes a moment but you have to be confident in your ability to understand lighting, posing and your work once he know all that stuff there's no reason to overshoot and it's killing your workflow um so this is a natural session I shot this is every single picture I took um obviously these aren't straight at the camera and she's right head to, um different expressions different backgrounds that's the only one she didn't get it that's just the lighting test say this again these are the only images you've shot that's it does that wow. Anyway of move on you know, I really, really I need you guys to understand that like the amount of work that photographers do there's like there's no doubt there's always stuff to d'oh and the senator you can always you can always find more stuff to do, but don't create more work for yourself and like shooting it, but that way, it's like cool now, obviously we're having a dialogue so it's not like I'm like all right, click and then we turn around show in the back of the camera to the guarantee, oh, god, do that one again, let's, go over here. No, I mean, like, of course we're having we're talking, we're friends, we're having a dialogue, but you just you just need to be aware, and you just need to look at the stuff that you're doing, um and be aware of what you're shooting and know that you are a good enough photographer, assuming that as professional tires were good enough photographers to understand if the pose is what we want, the lighting's, what we want and everything and you can actually tweet that pose before you take the picture, you don't need it ticket and then move the arms you can look and see it and make it perfect. Before you take the picture, I totally get and connected to what you're saying and actually describing this I'm thinking of all those times I shot all these photos and they were so similar, and I'm spending hours agonizing heard this minor differences and really, at the end of the day, they're all good photos, and you just gotta pick one and it's just that my news detail that it really doesn't make that much of a difference, so I totally get what you're saying there, and and this is going to actually lead into our next point, which is our digital work phone, obviously, like I haven't ate our light room class there's no way we're going to get inventing of that seven and bring a computer, do it like we're just going to kind of gloss over some important stuff it's homework for you guys to go home and do, but I'd like to start out by saying that, like our job as a professional photographer and my modest, humble opinion is to deliver the highest quality images to our client period. So to me, showing your clients an unfinished image or something that isn't retouching edit, it is a disservice to the profession. I mean, like, I really believe that, like, I don't want you to come on in and see anything that isn't finished. So if what if the senior asked to see the picture behind the camera? I mean, on the camera, we show that usually I usually I make a joke and I go, well, I don't have the film back yet, honey whether they laugh and then I go ok and I was like I never do this little show you one but it's just one so you don't get another you want to see that one go yeah go out over all right, here it is oh, you look like you but we gotta get back to work so yeah, I don't do the whole like like and especially with our volume stuff and that's something that comes from the sports side of work like when we go in we do like high school dances and prom's and even like girls cross country pictures of a fifteen year old girl and she said can I see the picture? No, why not? What are the chances she's going toe like the photo I took none not there's no way because those excuses a fifteen year old girl and she's gonna want to see shit oh do another one and no it's it's good, I got it and like if we started in that it dances and I was like a big backlog, so I'm I don't know typically do it for my sessions for my senior sessions I'll show you one on for my family stuff I might show the mom like one just so she kind of gets the idea of where we're going with it on and to get people excited about it but it's not every image cool all right so digital workflow light room he got to set up a perfect catalog like big time. Alright perfect catalog uses resolution that set for your j peg previews is correct. You've modified your backups to the way you want it to be so doesn't auto back up or start light room every time you plug a memory card in and set up your light room catalog like really this probably like ninety percent of people never go in there and look at it, and it changes the performance and effects everything about how your life from experience is smart collections huge tool if you aren't using your crazy, you can go in and set up smart collections that will tell you how many pictures you've picked and rejected. You can set up smart collections that will break down stuff for weddings by the ice, so you shot it at so that you can apply a different noise reduction filter to higher prices and lower ones and go through and sort everything. The only thing that I need to make sure you know about with smart collections is the's don't live in the catalog, it doesn't live in the preferences, so this actually lives in the catalog. So what you d'oh is once you create the perfect catalog, when we get to us again, I got ahead of myself and you also need to make your own precepts everything in light room can be done is a preset and when you say light room presets everyone's like vintage see pia no like you can do like printing presets and export presets and there's so many options literally anything that you're going through and clicking dialog boxes for you can make a priest that you only have to do that once so quit wasting your time doing it every time you export files basically we need to use light room for more than twenty dollars of what the software is that's like really like so many people they just don't use it for what it's meant to dio you need to start modifying your workflow and having it done writes that you weren't stuck in it forever um once we set up the perfect lightman catalog we save that on our desktop as a folder called new job when we start a new job we copy that folder pace that we go in and rename lightning catalog to the five digit to the five digit session number so by keeping our catalog small um labor is basically roadmap I mean it's like you're ross and it's where they're saved and the changes you want done and the bigger your old matt gets, the harder it is to follow and the bigger your road map is the easier it is to get corrupt so we keep things small we keep them simple okay um all right let's talk about photoshopped real quick um I guess said everything's everything's fully retouched period and what we end up doing like you just you need to have your your system set up said you aren't showing your your customers I don't know if I could say that we're not because they have butted work because they really needed you gotta have it in place you gotta have it go fast so um we don't work on images for more than two minutes and that includes our boudoir business which is more of a challenge um because we've seen the anti gravity tool and um is a lot more work that goes into it but we got two minutes we had two minutes um we work is a business I don't have time to sit around like if you want to go home and pour yourself a glass of maker's mark and photoshopped to your heart's content you go ahead like I'll join you it'll be fun we can skype but you're on the clock at work and you got two minutes get it done and remember we do sessions that are thirty images two minutes a special it's still an hour of my day retouching joey I mean I'll have more time than that so and then in the end key thing with our work flow what we archive from every session is three copies of the clients j pegs so we have a session folder in that session folder is a folder of the picked files which is all the color corrected density adjusted photos no retouching nothing and photoshopped then we have the same set of images fully retouched the blemishes bags under eyes portraiture has been run but in color and then we have the same set of files where like about thirty percent have been black and wide or heavier edits and more artistic thing why do we do it that way if a client comes in and they haven't edited photo in black and white that they want to see in color I don't have to show them a straight out of camera j peg and since I have to read touch it before you make it black and white I just say that that way and if I and if we goof up the retention we get rid of a beauty mark or something we have this straight out of camera one okay um so like I said, you have to have a vision when you start working on an image I know what the poses before we walk up to the back to where we were shooting I know the poses were doing and I know what the photo is going to look like before I start photoshopping and if you don't have that vision like you then it's it's play time in playtime is the network so you have these actions and the action dashboard? You guys used the action dashboard. Do you know what the action dashboard is? Yes. No, no. Ok, it's kevin could bode has done it. Kimoto image tools in twenty three minutes. You should be downloading this because it's free. So you're crazy for not doing it free. And what it does is it's a plug in that works in photo shop and you just you run the plug in and you can load in their actions. I use all of kevin stuff. It just works really well for our style and I like it, but you just drag your stuff into photo shop, you run the action dashboard tonight tape in black and white, and it pulls up every black and white action I have, and if I hit, you know, funky color, it gives me a list of actions or if there's a specific action I want I type it in had entered, it applies it so our studios using thirty to forty actions regularly, we simply don't have enough, like hot keys to program in that way. So this allows us what we've done is we program. The action dashboard is f one c push that loads it up typing and enter, you're done. So get it and use it and I think it comes with it comes like forty eight three actions and I believe they were setting up a promo code for me too I think that you get more free actions of use that it's mtbe pw matthew the body thought a week um and learning use keyboard shortcuts like way hired we just hired two new girls in last year that came out of photography college and they like when they start they click and drag through toe step back one step no controls the you know they click over to the tool palette for the healing brush that's wrong you're wasting so much time and if you just learn these shortcuts and you use um your photo shop work speeds up so much um I have a friend joy and she struggled learning keyboard shortcuts so her trick was she just got rid of the tool palette and if she couldn't remember what she had to google it and that gets a really annoying really fast so you gotta needs an inspiration you go ahead all right so are sales process is done I know you guys going to shock but it's really different than everyone is so our sales process like through projection sales which is probably what most people are familiar with in this industry projections sales you bring the client in you sit him down you guide him through like ninety percent of the ordering right? You're like, ok, these air your images, these are collections. This is what we're going to sell you. This is how we're going to do it. We said our client's home with what's called order catalog basically it's an eight and a half by eleven booklet it's like fourteen, fifteen pages and it has all of our products, all of our pricing and a little contact sheet in the back for them to fill out. Looks something like this. Um and if you buy the course, you get it for free. Um, seeing go edit it and go do that that's part of the bonus material. So save yourself the time always I mean, if you just want a screen, capture this and try to design it yourself fun it's probably cheaper to buy the course of it. Ah, no. So it just walks you through it as, like, frequently asked questions that has our reprint prices. It has the contact sheet. It has all of our specialty items. Someone told me this once, and I believe it might give you cell eight by ten's and wallets. You're going to be a three hundred dollars. What a three hundred dollars in your photographer, it gets all three hundred bucks, that's it yourself because there's there's like a limit to how many wallets and eight by ten's people going by so you have to sell other stuff and you have to sell stuff that they can't get on their own. So we got wallet tunes. These are all stuff from the labs websites. I didn't have time to do product photography, but like you have to sell a variety of things that they can't get on their own, you gotta have the stuff that's going to take them to spend more money beyond the eight by ten's in the wall. It's um, so once they go home with their order catalog, they come in, they pick up their proof book, we show a slideshow on our big screen, we walk him through how to fill out the order catalog, they go home, we discount our prices for thirty days in reality by thirty day price is what I want to charge. I don't want to charge you the the regular rate, but I will if you make me so you're thirty days starts from the day you pick it up, and we tell people it's a hard thirty days, and we do keep to this. So make sure that you are aware that that's when you gotta get back to us and we don't take orders over the phone and we don't take orders by amy. Don't you need to come back and we need to sit down and go through your order catalog to make sure we understand it at this point, this is our opportunity to drive the sale higher. Um what the investment stuff you've done ninety percent of guiding your clients through their order with this system, they've already done ninety percent and we're just in the last ten, so our opportunity to sell bigger our opportunity, guide them to a higher sale is now, and we have to do it in a way that doesn't make us seem creepy, so they come in for their investment meeting, we sit down, we hang out on the couch, we have a soda when they got a slide show and we get ready to place the order. Um, if you're going to go to using in order catalog type method, if you're going to go to proof books and order catalogs like incentive pricing is key it's the best way to upside, without seeming like a used car salesman and like you have to have it to do it well and good incentive pricing should make it really, really hard for them to say no like it really shouldn't be a big sales job for you because they should kind of. No like I mean have you been it like macy's and if you spend twenty bucks to get some is like another twenty dollars you get something for free yeah my wife's raising her hand um so look of course everybody has like who hasn't so we use our incentive pricing as a big driver in our sales and I know I talked about this earlier um but this is our incentive pricing five hundred dollars you get to keep your proof book for free um no like I said like our average senior guy session is the double up session so it's twenty four pictures they see I'm not going to sell twenty four images I never sell twenty for um that redheaded kid earlier the ordered seventeen of his twenty four but when you go through and you you you set up this proof book and you do all these images I know that parents are gonna love three or four love three or four I know they're going to like ten twelve I know that like there's going to be some that there just like me yeah on that's ok, but once they once we give them that proof book they don't want to give it back to me because of that point they have every single image they got to see of their baby and it's really, really hard to give that back even if they won't buy it they don't want to give it away so five hundred dollars you get to keep your proof book for free which is also our highest minimum order so if you book the high session your proof books included is the up sell in the sessions at six hundred dollars get a free wallet ten um and yeah it's just a little middleton we get him from agent age they put an image on it school and uh seven fifty you get ten free facebook files those air low resolution with my water mark all over him at a thousand bucks to get a free sticky album which of course we call a personalized app and at fifteen hundred dollars you get a high resolution disc of all your files I feel like at some point I've made enough money off of you that I'm not I'm good I made fifteen hundred dollars off all two hundred seniors on we really happy so so that's our heavy price where we well let it all the way then the most expensive item on that list cost seven bucks um so what we've done though they all have this huge perceived value you know, people the app we sell uh forty bucks no one's ever paid four hundred dollars for why would you pay four hundred dollars for it like it's crazy but they see is like oh well but I can get it for free so if I take that four hundred dollars, I was going to spend on this and just buy another product and it drives my sales up questions, one of the questions is so if they spend fifteen hundred dollars, do they just get free files or all the way product areas? Well, ok, they get there so it's one hundred dollars in product and then I'll give them the high resolution images. No, I've never had god would know it's gonna happen. I've never had someone where they've hit that fifteen hundred mark by buying digital files, so I don't really know I'd probably be like we'll give you a campus rap, I don't know, like what else? Like, we would find something to substitute in there, but yeah, okay, and so when you were talking about your workflow, do you keep your raw files? Are you literally just keeping those for year for year one year a tw that point like even anything you needed a year, like most of the time this senior year, I've had one mom that actually should talk about this, so I've multiple for divers in my studio, and I do sometimes shoe when we were talking about like nailing it in camera, there are certain kids that you get, like maybe it's, a socially awkward guy, or maybe like I photograph some kids that, like, a soon as you pull the camera up, they start doing this just drives me nuts because they blink and everything and it's like, how do you do that? Like, I don't even know what I'm pulling the shutter, and you're blinking and everything single one so there are times that you need to shoot mohr than what you're going toe deliver. I declined that came in, and her mom is part of the association that we work with, and I want to do a really good job for, so we shot a few extra on her, and the mom wanted to come in and see all of the files. Um, I think there were, like a dozen more, and the kid ended up not like in any of them anyways, but thinking as a business, we do have that in our frequently asked questions page on our order catalog, and it says that the photographer took more pictures and I got to see can I see all my photos? And it says something to the effect of, of course, you can but our pricing is all based on retouching x number of files so if you want us to retouch any of your unpicked files there is ah the associated with it just telling people that use it like they're good we don't want o even worry about it I don't want to pay money for it and they're good we pick the best ones I don't have a secret stash of the best photos that I don't get my client's hey get but you get the best ones honey like I want you to spend money I'm not keeping the perfect tends to myself um so yeah yeah we have more questions coming through or do we have any out in the studio? I'll go back online all right? So question from am h photography how long again is a typical photo shoot for you or does that actually depend on the package that they go in? Depends on the session that they book are you pick we tell him it's forty five minutes to an hour is generally like thirty minutes to forty five minutes it generally doesn't take that long we kind of pat it a little bit with time like sometimes girls just take longer to change or sometimes guys are weird and they just take longer in the dressing room because who knows what they're doing um and so like it's only weird if you make it so no, I believe that. Like so we leave room to go, but we always tell people like it really depends on your kid. If your kids super super photogenic, the session will take this long. It takes that long. But the answer, the original question the you pick is captain over forty five minutes. Double ups our ten get me out of here is going to be around ninety minutes and they go downtown ones like two hours to fifteen somewhere around there. So I also want to talk to guys about some of the products that we that we use because I got some hook ups for everyone, all right? Fine and everything. So our ticket or I can't say enough good things about our ticket tour because, like, I know that whenever a leggo speakers up and they're like, hey, check out my sponsors. I know that you're I was like, ok, your sponsors no legal legitimately how I got, like, hooked up with this company was my wife and I went into the photo shoot in new york. My friend alicia did it. They were great. We bought a lot on dh, so we wanted to do a canvass wall. And I'd seen their stuff and I know they sponsor like photographers ignite and I like to like spend money with people that sponsored things that I enjoy, so I went on to their website and was like, oh, we'll check it out we'll see if they're if they're good or not because there's like ten thousand campus companies, right? And their price point there very, very affordable so I was like, well, this affordable like, it might not be good, but we ordered it and I was floored straight up love their stuff and it's like immediately we dropped our campus company and we exclusively use them um their price point typically beats what the other companies are going to have it there big sales on baidu gallery blocks, which are super cool like I saw a lot of campuses, but a lot of like it seems like old people aa lot of old people say and stuff on their face it's because it's printed on text your honey it's printed on campus? Yes, canvases textured and they don't like the texture ring, so the gallery blocks are actually like a print on wood, so you get the gallery, but you get like a gallery rap look, but it isn't a gallery wrap so that's move look so discount code I got everyone to get the same discount code, so just right down the companies, I think you two are fifteen percent off their campuses and it's good from today until october first, you are all about the efficiency and I think mtv t w maddy the body photo week. All right, next one I'm talking about. We talked about sticky albums like use it seriously and bill it into your incentive pricing on dwork with it because people go crazy for it a little bit off topic, but like in our boudoir line, people by files or albums, that's what they buy, you know and everything in our studios on a schedule. So if you buy the cd, it takes so many days if you buy the album and take so many weeks to get approved by the law. But if you buy both, you get a sticky album that day so it's immediate gratification for our clients. It takes like, three minutes to win this thing together and they have it and what's actually really kind of cool help me. Maybe we'd walk lines are watching. This is that on their page I can go through and see and like these women must just be getting tipsy at bars and sending them to their girlfriends because you could see how many people they send them to if you could see how many times they view and there's like some girls that love their votto's this's some girls like love their voters a lot um, like I said, it works off line and it it's really it's good marketing for us so same code get to fifty bucks off a year um and then created motion design is who we use for all of our web stuff. Um it's just I'm not a blogger like tvs blawg ugo I'm jealous. I sit down at the computer and I'm like I'm gonna blogged that's, stupid no here's alex's photos like that's, my blogging, my hated I can't teo I just I can't do anything with it I'm not a blogger, I never will be. I wish that I could tell you that that was the strength of mine, but it is so far away from what I'm good at that I don't even try s o I just have a regular website, we update it once or twice a year. They do are booed wall one which is elusive art dot com and they do our main studio, which is k hyphen photography like k dash photography dot com what's cool about those is they work with like it does an automatic mobile version. If you do the flash one, if you don't do in html five one which I have all html five one but if you do a flash one, it automatically creates one that works on iphones and ipads, which is suicide. If you're trying to be a photographer right now, and people can't do you on their hand held devices and it has, like free proofing options and they're easy and go check him out. You get twenty percent off, uh, matthew, the body, m t v p w. So go. All right, well, thank you guys. I take some more questions if we got him. Well, first, I just want to remind people those people are asking again in the chat rooms about the cambodia image. Tools we got with the code is yet with the dashboard. Tell us again what it was for. Okay, so the dashboard is is really it's really cool software? Um, that they had designed so they engineer it's like, totally. I don't know of anything like it, but it's literally a plug in that goes into photo shops. You just download it for free. Um, and it opens up a little window in your photo shop. And it's just got a list of actions in a in a search bar and you can search all of your actions. You can key word on for what you wanted to search by, or they searched by the title of the action name. Or if you get like, obviously, we get kevin stuff. Um, he's already done the key warning for you something you know, it's already done. Um, but it loads in photo shop, and it allows you to just click ron and it's just really, really easy interface for running a variety of actions. You aren't scrolling down that list on the side of your computer and you're trying to remember what's what there's? Some other stuff that's really there's, some other stuff. That's cool about it. That's. My favorite part is is just super easy to search for my actions and that's my favorite thing about it, there's. Other stuff like you can click paint on actions and so there's like a sharpening action. You can paint in sharpness just on the eyes. I'm not a big fan of spot color, but you could paint in a black and white image and it works. Everything comes on layers and everything comes with like snapshots in your history, so it's super easy to revert to the other to the other versions you go through and check your stuff out I mean, like it's it's free and it's awesome so I would like literally I'd be lost without it I don't know how I would do my work for a look at it so I just want tio chime in and say hi to kevin kota and alicia white pour in the chat rooms and clarifying at all and dropping the link for for the discount covert, it is twenty five percent off any action pack. Okay? Yes, exactly retail and alicia and alicia says doesn't matthews hair look so mean? Oh, we're talking about my hair drink at home, guys all right, I do have a question. You mentioned that you have, like, an eight hour course on light room or something like that somewhere that we could watch online? No, I do it typically for like local people. Gilles will climbing out. We'll do stuff like that. Perhaps creative life could fly me out. We could do one here. I would like to do that. Uh, again, yes. Creative life. Dot com slash years like jess here's twenty dollars? You have a lot of fans in here because they're now starting and they know you well don't forget his jeans, h m photo and a cz well as cm daffy thing, yes and his shirt. So, thank you guys, thank you, really appreciate it. And I know that it was like a lot of information in ninety minutes and, like, I don't expect you to go home and, like, remember and be able to use everything. I just wanted to kind of inspire you to think about it and actually challenge what your businesses are doing. Because it's important, like I don't, my business is running really well, and like what we have, is a good thing. But it's, probably not exactly perfect for everyone. Um, so go home and just think about what you can do to make your business run better, because it's important.