Role Playing Continued
A suggestion I've heard from other people or people have said is they know that this is tricky territory and so they'll just open the door or try to a little bit more passively even than actively just to see is to say I just got all of my stuff done and I have all of my important papers and one spot um do you want to put yours with mine just so they're all together because I already paid for the safety deposit box or something so making it more of a community event or a family a family of event and then the other thing I love about that is you know, I've done mowing yeah right I've done mind over so it's not like share yeah sign you didn't do it when I'm not doing it right I've done mine yeah, I think that's hugely different yeah and there's a gift to you that you don't have to worry about anything now god forbid if anything happens to me here's where you look and I think I've really taken care of a lot of it so you just need to know it's here and I did that because I love you and I do...
n't want you to worry about well the background and funeral cells I was funny to watch families go through that I'm not talking about it and then as the discussion well I've got a couple of questions yeah, after, after you've worked with him for it could be two hours or two weeks, they finally get everything in order, you know, all the paperwork together, and they're just take well, I look at what I've does, right and it's a neat transformation, but it does feel really good when it's done, so it does build kind of a sense of community when people have done it together and totally yeah, yeah, the other thing just for anyone who is dealing with a parent or afraid, you're talking about making it more complex and as dementia sets in, of course it's harder for them to understand on dh. So if you even have a handler, if someone's just getting a little bit older and sixty is not old, believe me, no that's not yeah, it is that but still it's something that the sooner idea better but it does. It does come more calm. Her mother went through the same thing and really so yeah. It's yeah, it's definitely right there. Tio talk about one of the things I have learned in my own practice in terms of working with people with dementia is that setting up who the trusted decisionmaker early is really important, because the thing that I often see that is really hard on that people you know, the patient who is, you know, loss and mental capacity what happens is the family is trying to do well by the patient by asking question after question after question and it's heartbreaking because they know they can't handle it and what the family really needs to do is say okay, we're going to talk to the person you trust and we're gonna take care of it just the way you told us you wanted to do it right instead of asking them the twenty questions over and over and over when they can't understand it you know that is when actually you need to have switched gears and you need to have this set of that of you yeah, right because then all then all you have to do is reassure them that we're doing it just the way you told us to yeah that's a way different dynamic than going at them with some kind of complicated decision when they can't totally understand it and then they're fumbling around with the decision and you're going gosh, is this what he really wants or not? I can't even tell and that's just setting up mohr trouble for yourself, right? You could tell me you're using their plan by the way ask it in the sense exactly control yeah, exactly so the control isn't about you actually make every decision control is you told us the big picture of how you want to do this and we're just carrying it out yeah right you told us who you trust to make this decision we're making sure they've wait in making them feel like they're still in control there's still part of it this is something that's part of the decision so you don't have to save them you're too out of it we're not gonna ask you any more right that's terrible right you have to figure out how to include them in a way that gives them a place at the table but doesn't necessarily give them all the details kendall I think it's also good to that the whole like I have two sisters and the two oldest one's my sister my little sister and I um we can both be very uh assertive when it comes to like taking care of those things right? I think of everybody's on the same page before kind of the shit hits the fan I kiss then it makes it a lot easier on that person too and you know, the other thing about this power of attorney thing is now this is where the legal realities don't match up with the family realities right like the idea the legal idea is that there is one person right and sometimes that can create family issues is like who's going to be the person right but really what we should all be emphasizing is that there is one legal person because it's easier legally if one person is the one who signs but really the decision needs to be a family decision so matter whoever so the family has to reach an agreement of you might be the signer but wait it's agreed that we're all going away in yeah, right yeah so that not give the whole decision a different kind of feel if one person is kind of the person who signs but really the whole family is going to win and then it's everybody's responsibility to make sure that everybody has a say well, it's interesting to me how so many of these conversations are are charged because we haven't taken care of it ahead of time yeah, yes. And so if we like sandy was saying earlier about money um it's a muscle and once you start exercising the muscle memory to do these things it becomes easier and easier to do them and getting it done ahead of time just neutralizes so much of the conversation. So when you when you need a detail it's not about somebody not being able to take care of himself anymore and it's not about something not being able to have the mobility that they used to have and it's not about a sibling always stealing or sweaters in high school and god now you want to make all the decisions again anyway so waken we can take a lot of that away just by having it done early and then we can just fight about sex and money and the other things we fight about with the people who we love anyway then you can fight about whether your money is going to go into the disability insurance for your short term savings account you know what I mean and that's why do these little decisions I think is really helpful because if we've done it for a little decision then we can do it for the next step up right then we can then we know that we've been successful we can do it we didn't agree about everything but we did that one so we can do the next one right? So that is building this you know, bank uh kind of decision making good will but we can figure it out exactly. So you had asked a question earlier about when when things do start to get heated on and it seems when we haven't done ahead of time and things aren't neutralized and we are all in that emotional place our brains are fuzzy we may or may not be doing you know, after a long and tiring period of months or years were weary um a quick world get gets ripped out from underneath you and your brains not you know neurological e were impacted by that level of stress and grief or we're just tired right so if we don't get to what when we're in that place and then we have all these scarcity things and all of our feelings are popping up things in my in my experience of just hearing letters on dh having people talk things can go from zero to one hundred really really quickly or even dealing with clean up I was talking with someone just a few days ago that their that their mother had died and that they don't live in the state that their sibling did in their sibling was because of proximity taking care of a lot of the after stuff and that they were in arguments then because they weren't seeing eye about who is doing what and this is these these things happen all the time and so you're crying you're screaming mom always loved you more so things can quickly goto a really heightened place in a moment where you might be better off staying cool and linking arms with folks rather than punching each other yeah so um in your experience I mean people talking with doctors sometimes there's the criers and sometimes there's the screamers I've heard for my mother in medicine and then there's other the deniers and the people who walk out so when you when you get in that like emotional place right which we might do sometimes or flooded and shut down completely like how how do you how do you deal with it when you're like? Oh no, this is a bad spot there's, you know, like a kid tantrum in on the floor, somebody screaming and crying and in an office, right? Well, so this is where it's this and this is the hardest thing to do is to realize and recognize that you're kind of in the middle of it, right? And, you know, if you think about I don't know how many of you had a fight with your spouse, ride your partner I mean, how many times have you said something that you wished later that you haven't said, right? He never I don't like it all right? And yet it's, that realizing that you're about to say something that you're gonna wish later you haven't said so the issue there is can you say who we need to take a time out? We need to take a break we should take a break because really, what this research shows on this is there's actually no substitute for taking a break. You know, the guy who does all the marriage research, you know, with pebbles yeah, he says it takes twenty minutes, teo cool down at least twenty minutes fills out, so the reality is that we can expect on the reality is you have to go uh yeah, we need to have a little cooling off period, right? And so then you have to go away and do something else and come back to it and say ok that's good information the thing about we got to talking through until we're done yeah don't do that you should actually take a break and let your whole body like cool down a little bit and then you can come back to it and then when you come back to it here is like the total ninja move right is to say like, ok, what would ah a third party say about this situation, what a third party person saying about this if they were looking if we had one of our friends likes us both who's looking at this from the outside like what would they say? We should start there? They'd say you're wrong way better really interesting because when you get that third party even that civilly to study out of yourself just second when you back a little bit right? So if you could step back and you don't even have to be fantastic about this, but if you can step back a teeny little bit that will give you a little breathing space in the country and it doesn't mean you have to back off on something you really care about, it just means you don't have to scream about it right, right because you probably honestly what you probably be more effective about the thing you really care about if you weren't screaming probably taking a break? Well, I was going to say I'm taking a break thing like your family throws it out at the thanksgiving table and says, you know, you're going to sign these papers or you don't you think jumping in there no baby steps there did actually have tony during a thing giving dinner really? My dad either had to sign or he wasn't going to eat turkey well in power way that's one way to one side or old man and the family member who was like who had decided on that my dad oh okay, wait it was my and your fans my aunt god it not his sister but his brother sister right? Right interesting. Well, so I get that this is a common thing, but I would say but what about this? What about this is you can have the pie early, right? Right click tree tree only family didn't think that well, what I was going to say is that worked for their family in my family it's super wouldn't work and I just I don't like I don't want to take away from this the holidays are here and this is the time we should be doing it like at the turkey table or around the christmas tree or, you know, lighting the menorah, I don't know that like that would be the rig symbolic, right? Maybe it's too much, and I don't want that pressure on me to bring this up in that circumstance, but trying frying and but, yeah, maybe play under drinks, but I just like for myself, I'm telling myself, okay, not too much pressure to make it happen at one of these events, but try and figure out one of the peripheral events where make that how I'm like that idea a lot, though, like, is there? Is there something that you have in mind that you would like to do or try out? Well, like thanksgiving? Well, yeah, I've been thinking about because we're going to be doing these documents we need to include I don't have much family left, but my wife's family, we need to kind of bring into this fold, and I don't know that I'm thinking of that, that turkey table and I know she I just don't want to bulldoze into that tell me what's. So like what's, one of the issues that you would love to bring up during the holidays and if not a so we're not going to be o two right, so ok, backup power of attorney for her I mean for me, I don't know, but she's got a very close family members and I mean, this is up to her to approach them with write this in my battle I understand their wife, right? But, you know, supporting her and getting those family members involved but bringing this conversation up so that it isn't like a spotlight during the holidays but integrating those people so that no one feels left out right there's a lot of complainers, idiot that absolutely so is there some for example, you're you would like it if some of her family could get involved in that way her getting her own papers? No, she she she again she's taipei should be like, ok, and you're going to do this and you're going to do that and then we're all gonna sign I mean, I almost feel like that yeah, I feel like this be a little dialogue about that and how people feel about because not everyone in her family's like that. So I'm I'm kind of role playing in my head how to facilitate those conversations, but I don't I'm not comfortable having them at the actual amount and they're not and this is about her document it's not about years sure is that exactly and it's like how do I play a role in in that ugo try something else so this is her these air her documents so right, so you're like, honey, I just went to this fantastic workshop where we're going to see everybody at thanksgiving so what if you, uh, use this opportunity when we're all having glass wine while we stand around before the turkey and say, hey, you know what? I'm going to mention this to you okay? Right let's say, hey, you know what? It's great to see you and while well, we're all here, I just wanted to mention this thing before we could even be, um thank you all for being here around the table and one of the many things I'm grateful for in my life is having these friends and family and one of the things I want as I was drawing up my papers over the last couple weeks because I realized it was an important thing to dio I was so overwhelmed with love to have the option of writing down so many names of people who I know love and care about me. So I want to share back to you the fact that I've taken all of this stuff and I've gotten it done so you don't have to worry about it and I'm so grateful for the family who's around me that I can include in this and so knows she's talking about what she's done on that how that reflect that her love and care for the family so in a way she's leaving it up to the rest of the family to go I should do that how did you do that? Yeah, I want those forms right? So anyway, so it's you're getting yourself out of this position of trying to get somebody else to do with something that you don't wear about telling them that they're the name that's been poor I mean that that was part of it but also that there's this larger discussion going on, you know? I mean, but yes, specifically like, hey, mag, uh you're going to be back out p l a for me, you know, I mean that's that's another thing that someone be comfortable with, but I like that and kind of that's a big seed planted right for peripheral discussions afterwards and it's a nice city planner and and, you know, the other thing I love it is that is the spirit of the holiday, right? We're here together way often make these kind of goofy announcement weii dio and it's and it's coming from a place of love and positive writer and giving people an opportunity to walk into that door with you, which many people will often be like, oh, right, and if they don't phone call a week later could be like hey, you know what I mentioned that thing about the bank? Do you know if you're because I'm you know, and then just leaves is very little? The thing I love about this is this is flipping the frame for why I'm having this conversation. The usual frame is on having this conversation because something really bad is gonna happen, right? Right? This frame is I'm having this proactively because I love and care about you, period, I've done it because I love him and care about the fact that I did it for myself. I want you to know that that's, why nothing's wrong? Yeah, I like, yeah, so that's the flipping the frame thing? Yeah, does that make sense in a way that question would be what's the frame for you, right? In terms of this thing with your wife, how would that work? So are you, you're on somebody, I don't know where I mean, I can see I can see it a little more practically than a big announcement, you know, I could see it being more of like a discussion that's passed around the table, but I can see it being a positive one. Interesting, well, it's hard to believe that we've talked about talking about it for a while on lots of different answers, so a couple of the things you said that seemed to really be strike home with a lot of people and be easy to take take with is give yourself a break and then what would a third party say kind of get the outward perspective I've often thought you know like we don't want to fight in front of our friends it's probably because you're not doing something that's ok if you don't want anyone else to see and then way we're going the other rooms so when things get heated and then when things I'm just thinking about like that the couple of of takeaways um that we can you know right down and little mantra is to remember like take a break for twenty minutes what would somebody else say right now and then for setting up the conversation? Yeah, I saw the thing I would say is do it from a place of love, right? I'm doing this because I love you right? I'm doing this because I care about you on then the other thing is one little pieces ok? You don't have to do the whole the whole shebang at one setting because remember you what you would really like to do is make this okay to talk about in the future because the reality is you know, a real family you will need to talk about this in the future and you want to make it possible to discuss so even if it's not as big as the thing you hope for a little success is better than trying for the big thing and having it blow. So opening the door? Yeah, I think he was just showing them because it's like, hey, look what I did today and making like kind of go through and look at it, see what you wrote down this is what I did and here's where you're in it because I really care about you. I want to thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for sharing those stories and information and suggestions and ideas about about how to how to talk about talking about it. Yeah, thank you so much so thank you hate to stop, but I know that other things are are left to talk about that and probably trying to answer their email. I think you guys so much, and when we come back where last session, they don't want to leave, we're just going to kind of take all of these different courses and ingredients that we've been baking in making and put it actually all out on the table. So have like, the full course all all at the same time, all in the same place.