Marcie we came up to me and said my mind is different tell me what you were sharing they blew me away I think that the big thing for me is you guys hear that small businesses are gonna fail and when you start putting the two pieces together you realised that they failed because we're conditioned to believe they're gonna fail on the same way that we all stand up when there's a standing ovation we all believe that that's what we're supposed to dio and all you need to do is change some of your ideas about the stuff in it I mean, it just blows everything up you could to make it however you want. Yeah, you were sharing some stuff you do with your personal accounts that I thought was really cool how you later could you mind sharing that with us? I thought everyone could benefit from that s o no. Before all this started, I had a point in time when I was in debt and I sort of got my stuff organized and I'd created some accounts like I have ah technology account that I fund with little amounts ...
of money, so when I need to make a major purchase I can do it but also have, like, pope's account, so if I screw things up I can I can cover it without even thinking about a little coffee oops. Account it's called. Oops account my when I go to the bank, they think it's hysterical what? All my things were called when I go in so hard, is it right? That house it changes the way you perceive things that happened with the group's account you have? Well, on the one hand, it's already planned for. So it doesn't become something huge that I have to worry about. Do you think it would be a parking ticket or parking tickets? You break something because so easy to just go and it's your there's thirty or forty, fifty, sixty hundred dollars so it's changed that. But then if I don't have any of those situations that I get to use it for something totally fun. Yeah, so good. And you have more oops is or less soups and give you peace account a lot less that lesson. Yeah, any other kind of things you guys found yet? John, you were talking about axioms yesterday and you know, one time we didn't talk about was with entrepreneurs. It's kind of your your badge of courage is that you don't take your check. Now we don't take a check. I mean, when when the people get paid your employees get paid, the vendors could pay, the rent gets paid at the end of the day if there's no money you don't get it right and that's that's kind of the axiom is that if you're an entrepreneur that's the badge right right you sacrifice yourself this this changes that this shatters that that axiom you know and that you don't take the cheque because now you make sure that you know the mindset goes from oh it's going to be sacrificed I'm going to be the one that you know it is all list and that's the price I pay for being entrepreneur where this kind of turns out on its head and says no if you're going to do this why not do it so you get paid have you been honestly you've sacrificed yourself in your business well certainly yeah certainly almost sizable business tenders ten of you there right? Yeah yeah and do you feel this is change your perspective? I think so yeah I mean, if I look at this year I'm probably five paychecks behind this haven't taken yet just because there were things that came up and an expense account was well look at this big expense account and then the worker's comp l comes due for forty thousand dollars and you say oh okay that's money was in the count for them but then there's nothing left over to write your checks and there will be you know you'll catch him up but this I think or will it be you know I think we tell ourselves there will be sacrifice ourselves and then we have to say well it will come and then it doesn't sometimes yeah I appreciate the honesty thanks for sharing that he's got a serious size businesses in the millions of dollars in revenue and we all believe you have a brand new startup it's growing it's do we think once we get his size I'll finally be making work it no you're still challenges it is actually I would argue even more stressful get nine mouths to feed so thanks for sharing any other ah ha moments yeah I think scene when you showed twenty one twenty one million out of twenty eight million small businesses are breaking even or losing money just go man how do you why aren't they doing something about it it's the elephant in the room it's funny and let me tell you this we are trying to do it aren't you are trying to become profitable but we think it's us we think it's our fault you know if not profitable it's because I'm not smart enough I'm not working hard enough I work harder happening more hours and I'm telling you is not us you started a business built ten employees you got a great business started in california you had courage gumption to do your doing you're attracting prospects and customers were taking action it's just that formula it's set formula and the mindset like marcy's pointing out where we're told we're gonna fail so prove ourselves right you know, yeah, I think and you have your sepa accounting that sits back and does nothing and they should be proactively like I proactively going after the people insane this is what you need to dio look at these expenses, you know, figure out a way to make it work yeah, I got a tweet last night and I'm half the cameras come up from, uh, one of our audience members watching internationally and I'm not sure what country they're from can't member the person's name the moment when email came in and said mike the second I heard what you guys were doing this class I went to my accountant and they said I want to implement profit first the count said, don't you have to do it just just to a budget? Just do a budget? We've all been told just to a budget, but it doesn't work like I told your early in their class if we all follow logic it's real simple spend less than you earn and you will be rich go we could go home but we're not logical beasts and that's where a lot of professionals get stuck because I go just just follow the budget we have to have some networks were natural behaviour, so twenty twenty one million businesses aren't it's not their fault because they're not smart enough there's trying to force a logical system down an emotional brain you know, thanks for sharing any other insights. Eyes? Yeah, for me, last night was kind of an eye opener because I I thought about what you said about what you think and then what you do, which is an extension of what I do with my clients is a coach I throw thank what's the emotional experience and then what's the behavior you do? Yeah. And as I was saying to my own time up there in the hot seat yesterday, it's like, okay, why do I really think? Why do I think I need that cr? What is really my eyes right now? And when I took that out of the budget and put it right into profit, it shifted everything is like that was three hundred dollars a month that went into profit immediately that's real money, that's, real money. That doesn't mean I won't still put it into the c r m but it was my thought that changed it, which was so interesting is what I do with my clients. Yeah, I did it to myself in like, five minutes last night I love it and it well, that was a big got to me too when you start saying this I love when you said, oh, you know, I can wait another ninety days on this, and then if I do it, I can get a ninety day extension causes the trial you bought yourself half a year, I love it. That was the one more day at a time trick, but used it he's in increments of months was awesome. Yeah, what's up. So I didn't actually said I'm glad rick quit before me, but, um, watching you go through his assessment, I realized I'm not even close to paying myself when I should be, as as someone who sells a service, yeah, so I'm at sixty right now, it sounds like I should be up at seventy, and my expenses are a little bit higher than they should be, which I have left over in the expenses of the end of the month, usually anyway. So I think I can adjust those numbers a little more rapidly than in a one percent necessarily, but to realize I'm not taking what I should be, even where I am in my company sizes yeah, yeah, it was kind of eye opening because I don't know that I've seen that in some of the other scenarios we've talked about is really I love that you know we all know this is you go through profit first system for your business for all of our businesses that how much we charged on which we build our client is a big determinant of profitability right that's where margin comes from you spend last but also sell for more do you know who the toughest customer is to negotiate with when it comes to price me yeah yeah yeah our service right here in my mind this gets this whole moon does it screws it's only trick marcie and I were talking about that afterwards yesterday she was like you don't charge enough for your product and like it wasn't you but I have to because nobody but if it's more expensive that's how much I would pay for it ah yeah she's like seriously I'm like I know it's in my head but it is it's totally a good thing for us from the outside looking your business for like you're not charging I s only obvious but to you you're like well go by and you don't know me you don't get my business but it's my but it's just a piece of fabric I mean you can't pay seventy dollars for a piece of fabric even though it does twenty things and you'll have it forever you know but like you my hat and like you can charge that much for that like and get to be a little skimpy silk blouse that's marked a three hundred market taste too much material organ it's too much material and you work twice yeah that's funny so we as the entrepreneur we know the practical components that stuff you put into it and you put a value on that then you is finding that one little saying you explained there's a difference between the elements and the benefit right? So you're selling elements it's this fabric I sewed together what you should be selling is benefits twenty things you khun dio uh your child's safe all of these different things and this huge value for that jive ass broad and putting on the spot here what was your takeaways from yesterday? Biggest takeaway was that like well, always eat what's on our plate so when you khun divide up the plates, then you khun eat a little bit less awesome cool. Thank you. All right, yeah, yeah, my biggest takeaway was that I'm doing the wrong thing in three different businesses. Oh, wait. I told you we got your hot seat together. Now, right now we're gonna do a little bit I want to dig into that, but what was that mean to you that you know, I was really thinking about the most immediate, which is my consulting for government stuff and then I looked at what about my nonprofit and what about, you know, this other started by happened this side and I'm like, wow, I'm doing the wrong thing just all across the board, and I always have been yeah, okay, this isn't these aren't the first businesses I've started. Teo yeah, it was that realization that kind of flipped the switch for me. We're gonna make these businesses now there are the business, the most profit business you ever have a question for you guys? I have a great friend that's going to come in on line with us. I want to ask about debt. Who here has either personal or business debt loans? Credits personal. Okay, so most of us and j k, I'm curious online to go that I have a friend his name's phil tyrone he's gonna join us in a second or two on skype. Uh, who's out in arizona and I went to visit his house. We've been friends for many years. He has a company called seven twenty credit score. He helps individuals recover there. Credit score on dh he's experienced people recovering from bankruptcy businesses have been challenged. And one thing that one saying I shared yesterday with you is something he has she gave to me, I remember, were sitting at his house he is a there's a beautiful mountain behind house called camelback mountain were drinking some iced tea or something he says mike never forget this well dressed poverty still poverty that's this is the guy who said it. So how can we bring phil online? There he is. Hey, my hey, phil. How are you? Good bye. Good to see you. Good. Just great. You're doing great. I just shared your well just poverty line that you shared with may well, you give me two inch credit now. Well, if you don't mind, cousin ivor knows you please tell us about your background and what do you do specifically? Yeah, well, I mean, so you know, I was a mortgage banker for fourteen years, and I and I one day went in to deposit this thirty four hundred dollar check, and the lady said I was overdrawn with my checking account and I was shocked and she said, yeah, you want to run for you want to get a overdraft protection line? I said, sure, she ran my credit, I got denied for one hundred dollars overdraft protection. Like now my mortgage broker, I get people loans, so I went back to my mortgage company at the time and I ran my credit report and it wasn't that I had bad credit, I just I wasn't playing the game, I had an old collection from, like, four years ago, but I looked at what I was doing with my mortgage and I was over pain four, five hundred dollars a month of my mortgage because my credit score wasn't a circle up, and I really felt like this disingenuous me or this ingenuous nature of I can't get a good look, I can't get the best known for myself that I'm doing doing that for my clients, so what I did is I just really use my credit's, a guinea pig, and used, you know, my credit to figure out what what the credit game really is read books and certain things with words certain things wouldn't work and what I realized the credit scoring system is a true scam, I mean, if I mean it and won't people that the game is for these banks to skim a little bit over the top, I mean, five, fifty, two hundred three hundred dollars a month when you take him all the debt of person has and the skin is off the top. And what if you don't understand the credits for game? You get over pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month forever? Yeah, people realize it so that's what we do, it's seven twenty credit score and and that's why obviously we have so much energy because you want to get people out of debt and you know and that's what? You know we we teach people how to save money so yeah so I wanted to share with the class with some of the kind of behind the scenes realities how many business owners and student on and individuals are in debt or have debt how many people carried that? Oh my gosh, you know what it's for mike, I'm so sorry I don't remember this off my head, but I just read this stat the numbers just off the chart I can't tell you yet, but just roughly I mean, let me just tell you from my experience, you know, we've had over twenty four thousand people now go through our program step seven twenty credit score and what I can tell you is that, you know, is a debt, you know, crosses over race income, every people who you would think don't have debt people who you think are not struggling financially, you won't be surprised, right? It has nothing to do with exterior lock, it has nothing to what people drive or where they live. It gets deep, deep, deep rooted and I mean, I can just tell you, I mean, I've just experienced it from all my from clients across the board that you know, it's it's it's it's a super majority but I'll describe it that way but we're told you noah's entrepreneurs it takes money to make money you know, leveraged debt what's the problem here I mean shouldn't be leveraging destiny be borrowing money to make money does that really matter? You know what the consequences of debt well, I mean the way I look at it and seeing so many different types of that it's really a question of good dad versus bad that ok? You know, I mean I mean, you know, I weave I've seen people you mean like I'll never forget when I was in the mortgage business ah guy came to me and said he showed me is his car statement payment right right when he said, you know, one day when you're successful you'll have a car payment like this and it was set up two hundred dollars a month oh my god, I think about that I'm like you've got to be kidding me okay, one day when you're successful you'll have a good deal of that much debt yeah exact but it was just a lease. I mean, it wasn't even like oh my god, yeah yeah so but it's good dead versus bad debt, right? I mean, you get people investing in their business investing in their education I mean, you and I have spent my gosh hundreds of thousands of dollars on investing yourself right investing in the right coaches and stuff like that there's a big distinct looking and show where you're not showing your return on things like things and stuff you need and stuff like that stuff you want I should say is there a way that is their way to distinguish it so yeah to me it's investment vs cost there's some things you you have to take on the expense because it's going to give you a return other things is just a cost is there a way that entrepreneurs can distinguish between investments and cost the things you're talking about? Well I mean the way I personally do it you know I've never really thought about this are never really talked about this but the way I do it I do it all from a from a return perspective you know from a business you know, in the in this business world we live in it's nice because we know what the game is the game is profit all right I mean that's what we're doing I mean your book profit first talks about that right it's the game is profit so when I'm investing in something whether it's a coaching program whether it's education whatever I'm investing in right it's I'm asking myself what's my return going to be on that from prophet perspectives that that's the way I personally look at it but once again that's not my expertise okay and we'll talk about credit scores so some of you in the audience here have some credit card debt and so forth but they still need to grow their business they need to invest how do you manage when you already have a lot of credit card debt to improve your position so that you can if you need to make certain investments okay so the key thing is let's just start by discussing the importance of a credit score yeah just here's the thing if you do not have the right credits for let's just use this as an example if someone wanted to buy a new car today safer inside they have just you know they need a new car and a friend recently call me is gone the car accident he needed new part right so so he calls me up and he's like phil something's wrong with my with my credit score now this is I've known this guy for years but once again everyone no one thinks they need to do anything about the credits for it's like it's like this afterthought because the fate of the truth of the matter is it's more exciting cleaning out your garage and working on your credit alright so so he calls me at the last minute and so I'm trying to buy this car but you know it's something drum so here's the stats from my fight go okay, if you have a seven twenty chris for you're gonna get the best interest rate out there if you have a six fifty nine credits for sixty one points lower not a bad credit score, but just sixty one point lower your paying seven point four four percent extra you're you're rachel from three to ten point four, four percent if you're ever if you have a credit score below five eighty, forget about it, you're paying fifteen, twenty percent more on a fifteen thousand dollar car, many of us driving much bigger than that at a six fifty nine critics for that one hundred dollars a month at at a five, seventy nine chris for that's two hundred two hundred fifty dollars a month substantial. And the question is, is that's not one time? That is like this hamster oil, you're you're rolling it over and over and over. What could you be doing with that money? What other debt could you be paying on its substantial right and the worst part about it? What do you goto? I mean, where do you get the truth? You go into a bank, you can't the banks are going to tell you how to raise your credit score because they don't know truly they don't know so let's just start with that premise the importance of the right credits for and then from a standpoint of, you know, how do you get credits for when you want, when you do need that when you are going to be investing in your education or your coaching or or your business and stuff like that, and I just want to review a couple things that's a misconception that we got to just get out away right away? So, first of all, you need credit to get credit and specifically what I mean by that is if you do not have three credit cards, so when I say credit card, I'm not talking about retail cards, I'm talking these american express discover these air mass card, american express or discovered right? If you don't have at least three of those, you're impacting your bill need to grow deep roots, so if you have to credit card, you need another credit card. If you have one credit card, you need two more credit cards, okay, but the worst part about it? According to a federal you're bored study forty six percent of credit card out there have a negative impact on your presence for so you get the credit card, but it hurt your credit score, okay? And then the reason why it does that is twofold is one it doesn't report the proper credit limit. This's screws up what's called the utilization rate and second of all it doesn't report author of euros so I just glad word on for along for a few minutes there I mean makes sense you know I get it I get it but here's, the challenge that some of us are facing in the room is we have a business we've took on credit card debt we're getting these higher interest rates I don't wanna take on more debt to say I want to get my interest rates lowered is there a way to do that to improve my credit score with wei have right now? Well, the first thing you got to do is understand what your credits for is so if you if you have a debt how do you find out we're press corps is oh you just well I mean so there's there's let's just talk about that for me that's a whole other conversation but I mean, they would the easiest way because I don't want to drag this on I mean, this could be an hour lesson, but the easiest way for free is going to credit karma okay, you go to creditkarma you're gonna get your going to get a free score however it's not going to be the right score now to give you an example one day I just redid the lesson on this last year I ran my credit I ran three credit reports from from trans union, equifax, experian. I want the annual report ran my credit score and fight. Go. So I got all these scores, thirteen scores, not one score was the same. Yeah, and the fico score was the lowest. This was all in the same exact day. So my point being is when you go to creditkarma, you can see what it's like from a trending perspective. Okay, you know, is it trending eye? You know, but you don't want to use it when you're gonna ply gonna ply you don't want to go to fight, go myfico, dot com and pay for the score. It's gonna be somewhere it's going to be if you get three sport it's gonna be sixty dollars. But you're gonna actually get your correct score and then but good let's going back to your question once you know what your score is, you need to look at and say my playing the game, right? If you have a six twenty crowns for six fifty credits for six, eighty credits court, they're not going to get there. Not going to negotiate with you on interest rate like they will. If you have a seven twenty seven, fifty now you can have debt. I mean, there's, nothing wrong with having deck and caring debt and having a super high credits for I've seen people with one hundred thousand dollars in credit score that credit card debt have have a seven, fifty seven eighty credits for it's because they're playing the game the right way. Okay, so what's the trick. So if we have that, we want to reduce our interest rates. What do we do? Okay, so in a nutshell, if you have debt you want, you want to reduce your interest rate, you need to raise your credit score. And how do you raise your credits for teacher? You have three to five credit cards. First step and understand that. I understand. Is that three different providers, like a visa represents one before with second visa card that's? Not good. Anything, masters. You could have too, chase credit cards, but if they're two different accounts, they count for two. I say, okay, so you need three to five credit cards. Okay? You need to take the debt you have and spread them out to not be over thirty percent utilization rate. So utilization rate, you take your max max credit card limit. Yeah, and then what? How much do you have on that card you want to make sure that you're in thirty percent max? To survive a thousand dollar credit limit. Three hundred, max, I want on that card. Exactly. I got you. So if you have let's, just look at this. If you have a thousand dollars in debt and you have three credit cards and safer a big mistake entrepreneurs make they have one. Credit card has zero percent, so they have it all on one credit card right now. Took humility of utilization rate is, you know, thirty three percent or whatever. But what I want to do is you just spread out between three cards. Even if you're paying a higher interest rate on the other two cards, credit score is going to hire what's gonna help you negotiate. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally makes sense. Is there any other steps to take teo, improve the credit score? Well, I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, there's, there's, there's, there's. I mean, I mean, we can once again, you know, I mean, the courses pretty detail, but long story short is if you have three credit card, at least three credit cards spread it out over time. Make sure if you have any collections, don't pay a collection before negotiating. Because if you pay a collection, believe it or not, your credit score we could go down and and then, you know, I mean, I mean, you know, I mean, we could talk about this for and out no, I know, and I will not get together with you. I usually talk to you for a six hours this peeling stuff out of your mind now appreciate way got one question for our live warnings that what do you have, john, if you have the three to five cards and if your intent is to pay the card off every month and never carry a balance, should you still split that debt among all three cards or doesn't make a difference? So john it's a great question and the great question constantly get from business owners and entrepreneur so here's, the deal is if you have a credit card that pays it off every month, you think in your mind, like most people do in most business owners, entrepreneurs that you don't have to worry about utilization rate. But it's actually a misconception it's a misconception that gets us a lot of this because, as as a credit bureau, the credit bureaus cannot tell when you're paying off your bill, so say for instance, you call in this credit card to try to negotiate the rain downward right, and they and they run your credit on the twenty ninth of the month. Now you paid your bills is due on the thirtieth they had they don't show that that's paid off yet it could show that it's fifty sixty, seventy percent used even though the next day it's going to show zero. So when we look at your credit report, we look at a snapshot in time. So that's, why I really across the board whether you paid off in full or not? You wanted a zero percent or you wanna under thirty percent utilized and does when it comes to credit cards. Does this also affect the interest rates for bank loans and other types of debt? Oh, yeah, I mean, of course, across across the board, I mean, mortgage interest rates. I mean, across the board, I mean, you're going to get a personal line of credit? Absolutely. And once you want to improve your credit score, I'm hearing you could go back and negotiate with all these different vendors, including your mortgage, including your bank loans and get a better rate once things we teach in the course. Absolutely it's, like, once you credit scores there, how do you negotiate downward? Yeah, okay, great. Any of the guys in their question, rena so I have one credit card and, um I have felt for bankruptcy back in two thousand nine because I just didn't understand anything about credit or credit cards and you know it was in college and they hand you these cars like here playa plot you know? And I look over so um filed for bankruptcy and so I was really trying to be diligent about rebuilding my credit so I have one credit card but at this point in time with spending money to make money I have maxed out my one credit card and I don't have enough uh, profits coming in at the moment to like apply for another card to spread out that debt I guess I just don't I just pay that down and until I can spread it out or apply I don't really know exactly what steps I should take a this point so you know, we've had we have literally tens of thousands of people I work a lot with bankruptcy burn it right? And the greatest misconception out there is after a bankruptcy you're out of luck for ten years and what most bankers attorneys don't know is that after bankruptcy it's super easy to rebuild your credit the key thing is you need three credit cards instantly I'm talking like the day after discharge and they have confirmation position e I would definitely absolutely apply for two credit cards now goto if you go to seven twenty credits for dot com we have a referral tam for credit cards all these credit cards in our sight they help your credit one and two they're broken up paid by credit score so if you have a credits for this applying for this chris for that for that and in your case if you have your man next out with one I would go to the lesser of the cards. In fact, I would apply for on the site right now a barclays card it's the first park place card for people with a credit score under five under five by five progress course under five eighty it's from barclays account there proving it's amazing who they're proving right now thanks a lot like that, reena but my point is is that when you say I can't get approved I gotta five feet or I have one credit cards maxed out yeah, it doesn't matter I mean the thing is to play the game play you apply for those hearts and and your your credit score is gonna grow and then you can you can you can utilize that her spread it out okay it is his credit score's even apply to vendors for example I need to buy some equipment from a vendor who's not a bank it's not a credit card company to do even vendors look at credit scores to determine their extend your credit it depends on the vendor now not not typically, but not just any time if they want a personal guarantee and something basket you will okay great any other questions for us is electrified our audience thank you for being with us, philip really appreciate you having us here. I mean that they're talking about in terms of student debt that's the biggest thing that they're facing now they're trying to pay off credit card debt at the same time people being very derogatory about the credit companies they're saying actually organized crime a door in it so that way we have a international audience does this apply also outside of the us? Or is this really just american system? So so I mean s oh yes on america canada and it overlaps australian england about fifty or sixty percent and then other than that it's really you know it's it's it's one hundred percent american canadian, but it overlaps on other ways, you know, in the western, you know, can I don't know in like friends france or other in non english speaking countries, but I do have clients and in england that say it over last fifty percent and what about student that this this is a big challenge for a lot of people and you know they're out of college five, ten, fifteen years and they're still incurring well, particular thing for also for young entrepreneurs produced, they inherit and they're trying to get going with their small businesses. Yeah, so how do you handle student debt? So let's, just have a second on on student, at and at altogether, right? Because and I and I'm with you to the gentleman whose who asked the question, I mean, the worst english accent I mean, I'm really from illinois, theo, theo must sow it, but it really is a type of organized crime, like you said, I mean, it really is a scam, and I think, you know, I get questions all the time. Hey, what should I do from a credit from a from a depth perspective, what should I do? And the first thing I say, whether it's, student lawns or whether it's regular dad or whatever it is, you've got to get all your options, right? Because, I mean, I've had clients come to me and say, hey, I'm so excited the credit card companies put me on this payment plan, and they reduce my payments to this and my interest rates of this, and then I figure out how long they're going paying that debt for in one of the cases I'll never forget it was like forty point two years I mean, think about that oh, I'm so grateful that credit card coming the way they make you feel the way they they speak you it's like my god you're like the worst person ever in terms ofthe not being able to pay your bills so we're gonna let you pay it off over forty years I mean, what? So really when getting all your auctions if your if you are underwater in terms of debt under wired student loan debt you have to talk I have to talk to a specialist an attorney about that because let's start with student loan that there are there are ways to lower your student loan payment substantially there's ways to get student loan debt forgiven and it's all following legal system, right? So on our website you can go seven seven twenty credits for dot com there's referral section and if you want to talk to a student loan attorney you click on it will introduce you one of our pursuit alone partners and but I mean, people think that student loans can never be you khun never negotiate or get away around student loan debt that's not true it's a great, great great memphis conception obviously there's federal student loans there's private student loans but there's ways to alleviate that pressure when it comes to regular debt I mean, you know we have bankruptcy loss right? And and I'm a big advocate in obviously paying your bills, but I'm also I'm also believed because I've seen it for myself, but you know, people make mistakes and the question is how do you learn from those mistakes? And sometimes bankruptcy is the best option then there's, no doubt about it, but it's a very it's, a subject that a lot of people hold a lot of shame around and it's like, oh, I can't talk about that it's like it's almost like it's it's, they don't want to look at that as an option, and I just say we need to look at all the choices that we can make a logical the right decision because the question is is really what's the best decision to make for your family, not for the collection companies, not for the credit card companies and not for this jinn alone cos you've got to protect your family, but the consequences of bankruptcy now I don't know anything about bankruptcy, but the consequence of bankruptcy seems so significant that it seems like it's dangerous for anyone to do it, especially if you own a business well, that that that's exactly what the banks want you to tell me exactly what the banks want you to know what you think because my god there this fist on secure debt, they're gonna get very, very little and they're unsecured debt heaven for I bid you declare bankruptcy, you're talking to him on the phone, you are going to declare bank so, you know, this is your debt, and they're in their role playing with you. I mean, these collection cos I've studied these collection companies thes banksy's collection cos you know, it's a role quite one person calls you and they give you the guilt trip next person, they give you the angry trip, the next person oh, they're super nice it's a game and what we have to do is back off and saying, I am not going to play this game of emotions, I'm not going to give them any red meat to do. You've got to be apathetic over it. You have no emotions it's like hey, here's, the deal. I can't pay my bills and I'm looking at all the options and if you know in bankruptcy is one of the legitimate options and no it's, not a nuclear option, what it is it's, a it's, a it's, an option given us two by the courts by the laws that allow us to start over. And I will tell you after tens of thousands of people who've gone through, of course, that after their bankruptcy, these air, not the people, people who who declared bankruptcy, wipe off their debt and then on dh then come and raise your credit sport they're not raising credits for us to go get in debt again and do bankruptcy again seven here they don't do that it's like it's a learning experience at the same thing that I teach my kids right have a good friend of mine who ran for governor last night and she lost and she said to me hence the fbi visits here office she says to me she's like and I said to her when she left us I said here is the difference we all have failures yours just happen to be very public last night right? Very very public failure that I say kudos to you so I'm teaching my kids this morning here's the deal it's a public failure that the thing is is is we all have failure summer public some are bankruptcy is not does not have to be a public it's not it's not everyone's gonna know about it if you've had a problem with that and we need to get through that let's look at all your options and by the way your credit score should be the least the least of your worries the least of your worries and that's the problem but this is a game that the banks play they say oh you can't declare you you can't declare bankruptcy you're a business owner right? What you're a business owner your credit scores will go down going to go down the two who cares? Because I can show anyone how to rebuild their credits court seven, twenty and twelve to twenty four months after bankruptcy or any type of any type of issue thing is and I just want to finish this point, it's, because it's really near and dear to my heart, it really is a scam, okay? And they will say whatever it takes to get you to make another month's payment, another month's payment. And by the way, I want to make clear I'm an advocate of paying your bills, but when you're underwater like this and you cannot breathe and your kids are suffering, then you got to make some choices, right? So the key thing is to make the right decision for you and not not not feed into any of their ie the right there, there there games or their manipulation tactics. Yeah, yeah, well, I I appreciate it. Yes, get going on that because I just hate it. I mean, really, really she don't get excited about that's the big thing it's, david and goliath and it's horrible. I mean, really is a horrible situation. I'm just grateful for you, mike, that I can, like, share this with people and you know, if anyone needs introduction to anyone we have bankruptcy attorneys, student loan attorneys, if you're running your credit report and you see an error that's not beyond there, by the way, forty million americans haven't here on their credit report, according to fair claire reporting act, you can sue the bureau's if they do not get clean that offer, sue the bank way have attorneys for that. We have all that and yeah, yeah, this full system on how to improve your credit, I think we're gonna do is we're gonna put on their lower third, you can see from your screen, but we're gonna put your contact formacion up. Well, we carry on. We're going to bring some up on stage now, kind of go through a process and eradicating debt and using some of your techniques. So I want to say thank you so much, your energies awesome on this. Guy's, hard to pin down. I talked with him maybe once every six months for about five seconds, so I really appreciate your time. Mike. You're amazing. Thank you for doing what you're doing. You are absolute extraordinary. When I saw this live audience and what you're doing on the web and all this stuff, I'm like your won a million. Thanks, brother for you later, phil. Thank you. Yeah, he's, passionate, he's faction is totally passionately electrified our audience. Thank you, phil, for being with us, but I do just want to, you know, make sure to encourage every to do their own research on what is best for you as well. We'll fill out some great advice, definitely check out his sight as well, but it is different for every individual. It's, different for every individual, is no question about it. Phil specializes in personal debt on dh. Sometimes, when your corpus scenario it's a little different on there's, other ways to eradicate it, too. He doesn't have a great strategy, and crest scores are very important. You can see it goes across morton, just credit cards, all your loans and so forth.