Theme and Variations: Bridge and Outro
Let's talk about the bridge now the bridge is again one of these cool things where you took multiple ideas from difference spots and created one bigger thing which which I think is cool reason I'm zeroing in on this is because when I asked the internet what what was one of their biggest issues with riding like stumbling blocks? A lot of people said they didn't know how to write bridges or how to come up with that next part yet and I mean this obviously this isn't always gonna work no, no, no, no but it's a great it's a great trick that you can take uh you took the chorus and the verse put them together into a variation on you've got the bridge so too and not only is that a a cool trick, but it serves the purpose of keeping things sounding like the same song. A lot of guys were saying that they were having trouble with making a bridge it's different enough yet the same. So why don't we play through this bridge real quick? I'll find it in song it's wagons compliant so so here, right here...
a labia just okay, so all right, so get in we get back to the you know, so the course for the base overseas on all that's been added is like a little slap part okay that's what the basic doing the course yeah okay so you took that and you put it with what I put it with the irani goes too heavy a section on the heaviest section has got the way so what does the base kind of takes the melody there in the guitarist pre stationary that's cool and then is thinking the verses well yeah just simplified less going on that's cool so notes so basically bass notes from the course yep along with a little more chief and then a simplified picking style yes this verse yeah just like it's the same rhythm okay so you know that you know the chorus rhythm it's like the that it's taken the main notes from the course started like a little push on the guitars as well which is the scratches I said I'm going to play it again from the song so that I'm gonna play from the chorus into the bridge took out many people khun see the variation there low earlier wait it's interesting here also is uh with your variations they're really hard to spot and one thing we talked about yesterday with ryan is borrowing stuff from other songs of other artists the way that he does it is like say say like uh course professionalism he'll pick one element for instance like the phrasing or the breath between the vocals and take that change everything else just being influenced by one little thing so when you incorporate it into your own style it's not a rip it's just an influence on dh that's kind of what you're doing with your own song is not taking not taking enough to where it's just I couldn't think of something new it's one little thing well one little thing from spot and it really is hard to spot a super subtle so let's tie talk about the outro so uh basically that same rhythm motif comes back right? Yep. Ok, so what? Let's play through the outro and then, uh we'll talk about what's uh what's going on. Okay, so what is that s o the first page of the first so I noticed this place courts and then the little high thing is also seen in the chorus on in the verse. Okay, so it's uh so it's a combination of lots of different parts of your song together. Yeah, same trick that I think that what's interesting. If we can get the slides back up I wantto point out here is that in the bridge you basically have the course and the verse put together to make something and then in the outro you have the chorus and the verse together make something else it's using the same, using the same two parts of the song to create two whole new parts of song and interestingly enough, paltrow's air one of the other things that people said they have lots of trouble with bridges and out there you know it's usually a lot easier I think for people to get started and get to a stopping point and then where the hell did you go from? There are how do they have a tie this all together? And I think that people should be paying attention to here is that these parts that tie everything together or take it to the next logical place is, you know, like with an outro it's almost like a don't call it a recap, but it sounds like a summary of a few most important parts of the song put together to make something different with the bridge is just a variation off a few of the most important parts of the song forms that capture me is the way I took it from. So is that is that like a conscious thing that you're doing now is yeah it's just those really when I think parts really cool I want to repeat it that's pretty much it came from that but you started ties us all together maura's well cause subliminally people are picking up but without realizing it yeah, not like holding you think to take in exactly um I think there's a lot of songs in progressive mel that have too much ideas too many ideas and that's really hard to capture on the first listen or on subsequent listens to actually I actually think that that's why the genre loses so many listeners is because the songs are typically not well constructed enough teo teo carry people's attention I think the really the real trick or you know what separates the bigger progressive bands is in the quality of their song writing and I think that their song I still need to capture their audience just like they're a pop band real quick just because we've been talking for a while is there anyone not following along? We're talking about a questions from the internet I think everybody's following on pretty well I will double check the chat rooms and make sure cool yeah feel free to interrupt us because we're just kind of busting through a lot you guys all cool here? All right six so let's uh play that outro one more time I want to talk about it just a little bit longer because one thing that we talked about yesterday with todd I guess in terms of album sequencing is that p o is says that the last song needs to feel like it's got a sense of finality I guess in terms of a song section obviously that outro has to feel like it's got some sort of sense of finality but how to actually put that into action I think is the real trick I think of one thing that's really interesting here is listen to this or tunnel then I'll explain what I'm thinking from the final chorus into the atra way to mention the loss trapeze variation has got the high court from the course it was actually good at that's one of things I was going to ask you about it seems like part way through the outro the harmony changes a little bit because it is a little more tense that's I think that that's something that's a really good trick to use the ending of the songs to tryto build a little bit more attention uh than you had before but how many chord changes are there in the course full for ok and what are they um so in the outro the course of the same they're just in a different order okay so he went five six five eight for the chorus in the out tray eight six five three which is just playing the same notes in a different order which is a really good thing to try as well. It's all right it's descending teo sometimes sentiment knows that descending lines put together well I think the repetition of a descending line it's definitely not a rule but something just pay attention to can definitely help build tension and help you feel like you're headed towards something in this case it's torts and ending um but when you know so when the descending line thing is used to attention to something like an ending it's not like a descending line that comes out of nowhere, like you said you took a court progression is already taking place and was put into a different order and I don't know if you were consciously thinking about making it more tense, but it does make it more nose knows the idea very cool. So I spotted it all right. And then also, what about can you show us again? What comes from the verse? Yeah, the verse is that court theo appears a lot in the verse, but also appears in the choruses against mohr of more knowns towards it. So it's pretty much that's, obviously a theme throughout the whole song as well. Okay, so just restated. All right, cool. So I think we're good with that song. Do you want teo? Go on to atlas esto cool, so we're goingto to another song and show a few other things, so just kind of like recap what we just went through briefly. Um, his songs are a, I guess, a siri's of little motifs that air that are varied and varied and play yeah, played every which way and built into something bigger and generally, in your songs don't have brand new parts that just come on an hour here and there but stays in the bass better I find the introducing them before they actually come in makes the song easier to cross and so basically I guess that's another thing we're going to talk about later we'll just uh we'll bring up now when you have a brand new part coming up you actually foreshadow it before it comes in general and is that like a set rule not sterile just occasion if if I can't find a link that will work that's kind of my first thing to go to what part this riff is memorable and I'll try and incorporate it into the last repeat of the rift before or something like that ok maybe even before that rift maybe like all the way to start something when it comes in later so there's whenever so like even if you have a brand new part coming out of nowhere it's really not coming not so something tow link it to with song earlier even if it's just two or three notes from it in the way that it feels than that kind of yeah yeah that's ah men take a long time okay so easily enough it's not I don't actually think about it just kind of happens that how long alright so better better thing teo wonder about is how long did it take you or how many songs are years or whatever to take you to where all this stuff just kind of started to happen two thousand ten to two thousand eleven was kind of a start and when did you when how long have you been playing um I started playing when I was thirteen so about fifteen years now but I hadn't star ryan stiles about sixteen seventeen properly and it was pretty bad almost people's stuff it's very bad when they start so this isn't something happened right away no it's again something subliminally are doing but not this kind of level it was just little bits and pieces here in the okay wei have one question sure youwant now scott barbara wants in on the subject that's got outro finality of a song do you feel that the ending or do you feel that any not a tense cord that doesn't resolve interferes with the sense of the song we finished so in other words I guess if there's not like a cadence that sounds completely hey that's or something like that yeah just disconnect came depends what comes in the next song I always think okay yeah because it can introduce the next song really well okay as well. So that's funny you bring that up we talked about that yesterday setting up thinking about an album in terms of the entire sequence and how you end one song should be how you set of another but I think it's a case by case basis I don't have this example up but perfect for was that the first song of option paralysis by dillinger escape plan something metal eater from the full title farewell mona lisa they and on the most disgusting court ever but it works because of the next song not necessary just works of interest sounds all right I think another example that's really good as well as the end of the dream that our album train of thought he finishes an arpeggio and then placed the last final note really quietly in the background you really have to listen for so you know, on from a whole other genre music something that people might want to look up is uh gustav mahler's sixth symphony uh if you don't feel like listening to a full hour of classical music just wasn't in the very ending of the final movement it just ends on a huge minor chord after a huge period of silence is just boom and it's not really a sense of resolution but I guess that right there is the musical statement I think it just depends on what the musical statement that you're trying to make is sometimes I think that the ending is not supposed to feel like you're happy like a happy ending you see this in movies a lot of movie version would be on ending or the number the good guy dies or just to put things in a really simple terms no you don't need teo you don't need teo and a song in a very uh a very resolves sort of way to have a good ending actually sometimes I think that sounds really bad they have having it all resolved on the final one yeah sometimes can really mess up in ending so things just down to what you think sounds right the time as well at the time totally it's summa song basis sorry we're sorry scott there's no actual rule to it it sounds like it's more just taste and creativity like if it's an interesting ending and it sounds like it fits then use it and you go with whatever sounds right to you yeah just for the it sounds terrible is ending and were dissonant chord that doesn't fit then don't use it well I think also ghetto take take into account what he said what's happening after it on the album and what's leading into it this is where like you know, doing a lot of song analysis like we talked about earlier and and just kind of refining you're listening and pay attention to what other artists have been doing and refining your feel and just your instincts you need to be paying attention tio where the song wants to go it's my sound cliche but the song will tell you where it wants to go and you should definitely be trying to figure out a way to understand if it wants to end one way or the other and that's not a very it is not a very definite answers and like and a song like this. But I think what what's definite about it is that you need to develop your awareness for when to do the proper thing. Uh, court. So, uh, anything else before we move on? No, I think we're good. Okay, cricket. What's up. Okay. Grab something we talked about yesterday in terms of generating, helping generate new ideas was experimenting with different tunings. Wherein the process where you picking out these different turnings for the songs? Were you writing pretty much and just one tuning. And then, as the album required, you were tuning up new, different won or where it was that coming in it's. Mostly the same choosing. But I I thought that song sounded better in a tone lower for some of the songs that just made it sound better buy tend to play in a variation of dad got cheating so that I forget all of my previous lessons on theory, find I get stuck in certain patents. So I guess that's where it come from, um, plane in the different training and, uh, quick question about theory, how, how much their you know, um when I'm in a standard tuning I practically remember everything that was taught every moment, every scale but I tend to just try and forget that when I write music and just listened for the sound so every mode has its own like sound you know, when state libyans plan your honesty vie or alien is the most played in metal I guess you know the sound of that you know, ionian major dorian you can hear them all you have to get used to what they sound like and then I think that is justice helpful is known theory because then if you want a certain scenario, why dark snow you want playing, you know how my final miner or something like that? You want something happy you wanna play in lydia or something that's actually, just to recap some that we were talking about earlier and we were discussing cord colors and different I guess getting better with your ears is a good trick to use is to associate a certain type of key or cord or interval or whatever with something that you know by somebody else who did it and then you haven't locked into your head exactly like star wars theme yeah, just whatever somewhere over the rainbow just some it just depends on you know what it is you want to try to remember one what I use for what I used when I was trying to identify minor course when I was younger was that song she so heavy the intruder that's just it it's unforgettable to me and like that sound it's just obviously a minor chord and always always knew that from then on uh just tio basically reinforce what he's saying about alternate tunings is but that's been something that I've used really successfully to get out of writer's block sometimes certain tunings like dropsy or whatever, which was the main tuning for my band sometimes they would yield no results on I feel like I've said everything I can say with dropsy and uh uh at some point I would just make a completely new tuning uh not allies that just make one and, uh create new wrists and then suddenly you have half a now erm or of music very quickly so and the good thing about that is what you get out of your muscle memory and your normal tuning and expands more options in future. Yeah, exactly you're not you're not bound by your habits or limitations on the instrument, but I think the thing that's important right there's that's where your instincts come into play of your ears developed in your instincts or developed then you'll make good choices just obviously different physically it's it's not the same thing