Portrait Image Critique
First up, let us introduce our first celebrity instructor, scott robert lim wei mammy cancer. Welcome to the stage, everyone suit right. Wait here. Alright line like to let you know that we are going to run a slide show of all of the image all of the images that were submitted for the portrait segment so let's do that and then we'll get started. All right, everyone, we're going to get started with our portrait critique. I just want to remind everyone we are reviewing twenty images were doing the top ten in the category as well as tend to be discussed for educational purposes, so take it away. Image number one I do want to just make a note and say that if you did not see your image in the winning category or in the portrait category, it was because ofthe two things creative life cannot show any nudity. Eso if there was nudity in your image on fortunately, it may have been taken out of the slide show, so if you're like, we're was mine and the other one is product placement, we have to be...
very careful with product placement because creative life is a sold educational website, and so obviously people will sue us if we use their logos into stronger. Purpose so that's why it may have been removed so I think that's important because I know images have been removed and I feel like people may have been like why his mind being removed so welcome to the portrait category my favorite category listening to these guys and critique this morning is really exciting because they bring a wealth of information and we want to try and teach you as much as we can around critiquing images at the same time on dh this is office portrait image I think that face is just completely beautiful and I'm just drawn to it in the eyes the catch like um and the color is great for me I think I would like to it has a little bit of stiffness to it so maybe I would have turned the body away from the you know, kind of the facing the body just a bit so it's uh not a stiff and maybe kind of uh ah break up local maybe kind of changed pull the shoulder down a bit more but the face is really drawing I like the diagonal um that I kind of feel with it and it's great yeah, I have to agree with you, scott the because her body it's like her body is straight into the camera I felt that that was it anchors it a bit heavy down here in this area I would like to see in a little bit some sort of a kicker or something in the back because it just goes to black. I think that might have improved it, but I do love the quality and the eyes, I think, and the she has a magic and a rise, so I don't she doesn't actually doing her laundry in her head, so just remember, I think, tio, when you're shooting, hidden shoulders, portraiture, asymmetry is definitely something that's going to help you, and I feel like thie asymmetry of this image is on the opposite side, but it makes sense because of her head were is going down to the right and that's obviously what they're focusing on so that's cool and if you want to try something just very cool because I love everything about this image, it works because the connection here eyes is just magnificent and hear outfit is enough to make it perfect, it's being beautifully traded and beautifully retouched, I'm I would like to see eight cycles around the chin, so if you have a look from front on to camera, just remember when you're shooting asymmetrical, leave some space wherever the faces going so here faces going hard up against that left side, which is a little hard toe. Except but the headrest allows it I wouldn't allow it if it was just to hear do, but just trying to remember when you're front onto the camera with a portrait client that you can have them here you can bring them to hear and then there's four different cycles down and then beck and then this way so you can come up I think was about a nine grid on how many options she could have had the kitchen in face without leaving his shoulders, but well that's so beautiful isn't it striking image beautifully and the higher number angle really helps us well, my camera angles are awesome for faces, special mature faces and whenever anybody takes mike richards say, can you please photograph it from up here? Because it's a great angle because and this is a good example even though she's a young woman but this is one of the reasons that works look at that nice the line on her jaw line see how that it gives a distinction between her jaw and her neck and when you photograph your sub, your subject and you're photographing at eye level, then you see this and especially on a mature person that's not what we want anybody to see, so that higher camera angle really helps in addition to that the other thing about a higher camera angle one of the stations that that suit was talking about when you drop that chin whenever you drop that chin and they look at you from a higher camera position with their eyes it'll make those eyes open and make him look larger. All right? I've got the controls on your clicker all right? I'm going to start with this one because there's two things that instantly hit me with this image the styling and the outfit are beautiful but it's just too much you know, coco chanel said when you get really go to the mirror and take one thing off, you could have taken one thing out of this image just to take it down a little bit more it's either too much jewelry or too much makeup but if it's a makeup shot take the joy off if it's a jewelry shop take the makeup down so this is where I this is where I struggle with this this is a beautiful portrait image, but the makeup is fashion, so if you're going to shoot fashion, you should have shot that face in a way that it was fantasy magnificent all about the makeup and then bringing the hands that with the jury makes me feel like it's affection joey shot which why would you do that? Make up if it's about the jury so this is suffering from two match but too much of a bloody good buddy good make up beautiful, beautiful model beautifully post hands too much here too much bangles too much and so it killed every part of that for me but other than that I love every element of it yeah, I like I like it much better when you crop out quite a bit of that quite a bit of this stuff because her face is beautiful and I like the quality of life that's on her as well I do think there's a little bit too much light on the lower part of her body or arms her arms are brighter than her face is so my I dance is back from her arms to her top and then to her face finally and that face should just pull you right in. I would like to throw in something as an argument for both scott and bambi that's not a portrait eye line it's a fashion I line a case it I have to I lines when I she portrait when is to camera and one is down my body line so I'm either engaged by who I am or I'm engaged by my own physical prisons but I'm never really engaged by other people in the room because that to me is taking your energy away like a bride can look away because she potentially could be looking for her groom or where she's going to walk but a portrait a port it does not look off and that is that I'm a real stickler for that, but that doesn't mean I'm right but it is something that I don't like in portrait so really interesting argument they might disagree but I feel like that is a fashion I line no reporter align and it's something if you're shooting that when I started shooting portrait I would always shoot people looking off not many people can do it very well I always liken it to this you would never look off in the direction your face is going in because you were just ten and look at somebody so the fashion line is usually often behind you so you know somebody's coming up and it's kind of like that fashion look but not many real people can do it if you tell real people to look off they can look down and it looks good but often when they look off they look really you know I said to me it's kind of the oddest thing to actually shoot a portrait can I speak out ways? But you don't get a lot of fashion divas and all that I really just couldn't feel the connection you know where it's a stiffness to it and whatever and looking off to the side and whatever I just couldn't feel connected with her I mean she's beautiful and you know, I like what you said about the jewelry never I couldn't feel connected with the portrait? I mean, that was pretty guy's got because I know yeah, I really like this this push it a lot. I mean, it is looking away from the camera but that's different we're really because he's supposed old masters style yeah ability I love it. I mean, I for me but that just that straightness of the finger and it's just a little bit too much and it's taking away from this face I feel on defy could have and the hair just kind of disappear piers into the background ah bit um and I it's shooting a a little bit too much straight into shoulder for me even though the face is perfect. But, you know, I love those the image I did not have I don't have a problem with this finger at all because I was sitting here thinking to myself, how would a person stand? You know, if they were actually doing this pose and I think your figure is going to probably be pretty straight and he's got long fingers I think that's the problem and not a problem but that's part of the large hands because yeah, but on and I also I'm not bothered by his shooting into the shoulder because I think that in the context of this image it actually works because it's an old world style portrait you know, if he's doing this, then it would doesn't really make sense for him to be turned this way and I'm trying think how would you do it if he was turned even farther? So that doesn't work, so I think that actually the post fits him very nicely I e only thing that I would love to have seen as I think that if I'd seen this as a brown tone or black and white, I think it would have just I think it would have been like the icing on the cake I love it, I think it's gorgeous, but I'd like to seen it may be in black and white one hundred percent if it was vintage joe I'm just saying I would I'd want it on my wall oh, ok love, love, love love it the way we were talking earlier about you know images you know, whether you know would you rather see something that's different and innovative or something that's been done really? Well, I think this is spectacular look at the look on her face and feels very believable it's got a dreamy quality she looks angelic to me she looks here age. Yes, I look I look at this and I just want to say you're coming to vegas, I like this square how they did that square crop with I I just love it and the treatment and this is you know, we were talking earlier about treatment, how you conover treat her undertreated print and most people over treat him this one is treated properly that the mood of the photograph is emulated by the color tone you khun that serene look on her face, that kind of dull aqua kind of blue field it all works together and I think it would not have worked as well if she'd been if they had used warm tones or kept it true to you know what the camera said, I feel like we're riding two horses with one ass and that is we were judging like awards and then we're looking at critiquing portraiture so to me this is an award image and it is something that I would award an award too, because I just distinctly love its uniqueness and its simplicity in terms of it being a portrait to sell to your clients I don't know that they would necessarily by their but although interestingly enough a mother and a father of a child would fall in love with that simply because the child is so perfect in it and so I feel like this would be that cross bad where you live in what is an award and what is the portrait I feel like this is both, but I realized that she probably set for more than it's water it's so there was an entire series in this sequence I hope off his smiling laughing looking down that mom and dad would plastered everywhere if this were if you have old money clients that have monies and day goes on their wall that client would hang that on their wall because it does not only they wouldn't write normally they wouldn't be caught dead hanging up a family portrait er or a picture on the wall that transcends s so I'll tell you the maker keep doing what you're doing because this appeals to ah very snobbish and I don't mean that in the words now but I don't really know that we're right word for it, but it appeals to a very sophisticated palate absolutely so what bambi is saying is there's an old rule in the photographic community portrait community particularly that the families with money don't hang photography, they hang out work and if you go into the sort of million two million three million dollar homes they generally don't have photographs on the wall it's just not something they do so we know to sell to those clients we team to go two albums books, failure boxes you know that's what we're talking about so when she said it it's a sophisticated palate differently, more fine at and if you want to sell to their higher demographic decline you have to create something that is more finance I think to just as a photography tip when you're taking portraiture it's very easy to just do something simple to various I I teach a lot of photography classes and what happens will take a portrait and just stop with that one idea that they had intended but one other thing that you can do that you can do it all the time it's simply have the subject close their eyes and if you notice that when we are warning a lot of these award, I mean that awarding but we're critiquing a lot of these pictures and the photos that we like actually a lot of them their eyes were kind of closed and so sometimes when I want to have a morva fine art feel to it, I just simply have them close their eyes because then you're less aware yeah, stillness is beautiful this reminds me of a very the famous image off course national geographic, which is being replicated again beautifully shot love that black and white that knows binned on the shadow on the nose just puts her face into massive distortion for me, but I actually really love this and it's beautifully executed well done I don't know what I would do to improve it because obviously they've kept the subject very well I would just like to have seen it maybe a softer black and white the contrast is a little bit hard for me so I'm not saying I don't want it to be a monotone print but just something that's a little bit less contrast e I think that it would it would saying to me a bit more because as it is because it's such a high contrast black and white the imperfections in her forehead it just looks a little bit gritty I think it can be good but when it starts pulling me away from her eyes which is really the focal point pointed this photograph that's when it might be something I would want to change um I just you know for me maybe the eye that whiteness of the isis that had hot I don't know if it's the monitors or whatever but it just seems a little bit hot and would like to see a little bit more detail in there but it's a great image very impactful there's not many faces that you can just shoot one eye and actually get that impact like not many people have a face is that interesting so they've obviously seen this impact and of course the um baylor's well placed I love her I love and I really want to commend the maker on this interesting way that they've treated this the powder on her hair it just makes me go it makes me go weak on love it I don't like the background with it I feel that it competes too much because it's it's like such a strong contrast between that dark black with her, maybe it just needs to be cropped. I can't quite decide because I find her so compelling, but she doesn't seem to fit in this in the way that this background is done. I'm the complete opposite. I love the background and the powder I don't like here. I feel like if she was on fire or laughing or just, like, really animated that somehow it would look like it's exploding out of here instead of hitting her in the head, which probably wasat the second after it was taken. But I think I think this is a magnificent image and I think it's a great idea, the best background here. I don't know to me it looks like I thought it was an afro. So it's amazing. This is like somebody's. Obviously throwing paint or powder at here? Yeah. I'm going to go with them and be a little bit. I think I would like a little bit here. A mute button on this. I hate tio. Yeah, like, uh, yeah, I think I would like a little bit lighter. Um, I love I mean, like, but I do agree with the energy. Yeah, ok, so I agree with that part and then the background if you put those two together. But you know who on the other side about the background, the one thing about the background that were lighter than would we see all that powder in her hair, right? So that's the thing that's really the tradeoff, but I will come in the maker on doing something different and I love where they were going, and any time somebody is willing to go and try something crazy like this, I think they're just they get my vote pretty cool. Ok, so in awards judging, we always try to be compelling controversial and you need to start a conversation. This is what this image does in order for it to be in an awards or an international would system. This is what is going to stop and talk about some people won't feel it. Some people judges won't believe it, but that's why these usually five masters sitting on a panel? I feel like the impact of this image is instant it's emotional. It probably brings up a lot of emotion for people. So now that where it's a vocativ we agree, now we have to judge it on its photographic merit and it's illustrative quality based on its emotional impact, so sometimes something can have great emotional impact but it's not executed as well as it could be. It makes people uncomfortable. The airport should be scored high because of its discomfort level. I love this image. I would like to see the background have treated a little bit better on this side of the image. This side looks beautiful too. May I love the connection in his face. And I loved that you could create an entire story around it. So if you're out there critiquing, can I put this into the awards? Yes, you can brilliantly done love. Were you going with it? Obviously, it's. Not a portrait. Yeah, and that's actually really an important point when you're entering a cabinet category, be careful of the category. You enter the image in because if you entered in the wrong category quite often your image will be scored lower simply because you know how can you be judged amongst other images of a particular genre when it doesn't fit? If you how could you win that category? You can so think about that. I agree with you. Sue on the treatment of the left and the right it's inconsistent it's like they got started on the left hand side with with the treatment. And then they went to the right hand side and they forgot about treating on the right hand side so it doesn't quite make sense but still that's like pulling your hair off the back of a dog because it is incredibly compelling and I especially like the fact that the maker used shallow depth of field you see how that really pulls your subject away from that background and there's no question who the subject is in this picture and how it really our eyes don't go dancing around in the background had the ability to be a bit of a distraction with those strong, spiky lines in the background on the right hand side but because it is out of focus whether done in post or whether done in camera um when I see this image I kind of is very compelling and I'm just like looking at the meaning and I see that the woman is holding it with the fancy fingernails and I go man this guy got jacked up e oh yeah it's her portrait yeah, it is very yeah it is very compelling photo I like it yeah in the background is a little bit hot for me but come on I mean, it's you're going when you pass by this photo, you're gonna look at it yeah, but come on critique in tim's of this going into a judging system right now the judges are going to be arguing the merits on how compelling the content is this is how well executed that image is this tells me that this author has an opportunity to take this image to a gold level by changing that background by making sure that l a mentally this photo is off a level that it goes into a judging award in hits gold distinction because every part of the collection and this image is compelling but if they can bring both the printing the quality and the destruction out of the background that will go to a gold merit instantaneously and you're talking an international title because you could win an international title when you hit gold merit so in terms of award judging this is where you going towards keep going this way I want to see this wind something this year somewhere in the world I'm in control beautiful hands a beautiful old hands and more beautiful I love that old black and white and it's yeah that zipper bags me a little bit beautifully shot yeah, I have to agree I think the zipper doesn't bother me that it's there I think it's lovely and I love the way the hands for positions gorgeous hands are so expressive especially things that with character and age and man just you look at that and you're moved emotionally with it and I love it I actually didn't even when I when I see it, I didn't even really notice the zipper until she mentioned it, you know? So I guess it didn't bother me, but I would now looking at again, I would like I would bring down that super a little bit, but, um, love it all right? Is this an image he would put into awards? This is an image you would tell your clients. Is this an image you would put on your block? Is this an image you would put on your wall in your studio? But which one of those categories is it? And I'm a portrait photographer that only looks at faces. I don't think about details like this, and when you do get an older client or maybe that's their father, grand parent, whatever they've seen this and that is magnificent, I think that speaks to pretty much the public, but how wonderful to see detail and portrait that's not a face and next time you shooting a portrait let's look at their hands, maybe in supplication, in prayer, but the hands that tell a story how beautiful and yes, you could use it on a lot of little I love atonality of this picture, I think this is really it's very pretty I love the harmony the placement of the subject on dad actually is one of those shots that the more I look at the more I like it when I first when it first came up I was thinking oh her head is so close to the top of the frame but it actually doesn't bother me it doesn't it defies the normal rules of portrait photography I don't really think it is a portrait I think if it is more editorial but I'll tell you what I do like I do like the way they lit the photograph the lighting from the right hand side you see how it skims across the the side of the arm which means that it's going to skim across that dress and show that beautiful detail it and it's also high enough that it illuminates the top of the side of her face and yet we get that beautiful shadow for sculpting the lighting is very nicely done and I think it's an interesting photograph I think it's pretty interesting I mean it hits me different as I keep looking at you know again I was bothered by the that top of that of that just need more space there and I was actually kind of um bothered by the detail in the back but the more more I look at it it's starting to grow on me a little bit more so I'm not quite uh I'm not quite sure where to place this photo right now because it's moving with I don't know what you think about beautifully post girl, which I love to say hands ten shoulder, hand out last body language connection every one of them background hate, you know this bits coming in on the side is a black triangle on the top there's a shower there's, a big there's, a big reflection on the glass. They could have all just been gone and photoshopped, gone, gone, gone or moved on, but other than that chin, shoulder, hands, hourglass, body language, connection, chin, shoulder hands, hourglass body language connection, think about that hit every one of those and look how beautiful she is. We're forgiving the fact that she's sitting in a bathroom, because that is so remarkable that it's enough. But, you know, I could have been getting also the fact that she's on the left hand side of the picture that's, why we noticed that shower so much, you see, if you if they flip this file and turned the other way, we would see that shower, but it would not draw our attention cause our eyes naturally go to that right hand side, and we would go to her first mark my words on what the author to take this a flip it and you're going to see such a huge difference because as it is we go to her but then we we cannot help but our eye being pulled because we're from you know, in america we read from left to right are in this part of the world so our eye goes from her immediately to shower and to the to the windows right there I guess if you you know looking at it from a portrait this is the category right? But maybe I was looking at it more from an editorial type type of you but if you're looking for from a portrait of you then I think that background can be a bit distracting and her like I do like proposes I love those awesome in the dress in the drink in fact it should be in anywhere else it would have been better yeah I want to speak to the I love trees I love tree roots I love I love their whole concept and when I look at this girl's dress and look at her head piece and she's clearly a dancer but if she was dancing should be she wouldn't be sitting in a cheer so it's like you've taken my dream background that's it for the highlight coming through on the right there with taken by dream background and my dreams subject and then you throw in a hit back splayed out of fingertips and then set serenity here so I don't understand. Is she dancing or is she posing? And if I was to go through my list chin shoulder, hands gone, gone, gone it's not there yet. I feel like this could have been the most beautiful image here and to me. It's lost in and then you know, so if she stood up and she was doing a flamenco move and his school was flipping or I understand who having her hidden hands like that, but sitting in a cheer, it just bums me out. So I'm just kind of like they would have been other images in the sequence. Think about how you represented here is a portrait. So demonstrate how you would pose your subject way well. Okay, theo, I get it. Okay? I often look att all movement. And I know that most people can't move and listed professional dancers. And even when the professional dancers, they still have to do slow repeated movement. Like if I want to. Twelve august slow, slow, slow, slow. Slow it down. Slow it down. Keep going. Slow it down. Repeat it for me. Repeated for me. Good girl, jane. You know saugus slow. So now I want something more for a mink I one, I want to know why with the hands I want you to repeat it and then I make them repeat it over and over and to like it that shot you never just go freestyle and I'm just going to bang away at it, you know you could do it all sorts movements slow show was the year also, so when I want somebody to repeat a movement or I want tio down so I want the skirt to flick, I'll make them do it twenty times to get that one shot that just blows me away and I look at it like this my rules are you engage the chin office so it's either four down rotated or or whatever your eyeliners I get that shoulder always working the shoulder hands the hands are so important because you look wherever the hands are and who hands are like their splayed out, so she looks like she could be dancing, but then she's sitting in a chair so I don't get it so to me it breaks the golden rule and the golden rule is body language. Now if she was in a flamenco dance, I feel like it would be powerful and gorgeous, but because she's sitting it's kind of like I'm just weirdly touching myself with splayed out hands, you know, so to me there are so many elements of this that are amazing and, you know, I really hope that the maker that they'll take this critique to heart it's not meant to be to be unpleasant because, you know, we don't learn from the things we do, right? We learned from the things we do wrong and it's my favorite yeah. And it's it's just one of those things where you have to just put your big girl panties on our big board panties on and just say, you know what? That's okay, you know, tomorrow's another day like scarlett o'hara always says so this guy would take this model again out and I would find this environment again. This is such a beautiful you have so many elements, right? You just have one thing that which happens to be one of the most important things that could use a little improvement. I mean, it's just it's greatest it's, just almost shots, you know? So if you were going to just go with what you had and slightly added I mean slightly change it moving or off. So that trunk is not right over to her head and more in that dark area and just simply had a pose and did a side angle shot like this, I think it would have just even been better with just a minor tweak I nuts about this picture and you know one of the things that when I look at a photograph that's a real tight close up tonight especially image like this I go do I love it because it's a pretty face or do I love it because it's an interesting concept and this has both elements she is a beautiful face but I think the leave the way the leaf is around the face makes it a wonderful, wonderful image. Yeah, I like the fact that there's not a lot of re touching on the face she still has a little bit of a bag under eye you can see texture and whose skin but that's just so beautifully done and I think of the leaf was there it would certainly not be the image that they've created but I mean so beautifully to see that and might that happen? The least makes it because if you take a leaf away it's just a normal portrait and so it's kind of a play on those you know the nation mess so that's what's very creative about and that's why I like it good video that's an excellent response, by the way because whenever you have photographs that kind of compel you and you're not really sure what to do with him you atleast you get noticed and boy this maker has gotten notice and it's it is interesting and you know interestingly enough if you look at the wall on the right it's actually a ground if you look at the wall on the left it to see it on the bottom the ground is a ceiling on the left hand wall is also a sailing and the right the top ceiling is a right hand ah we have that goes against everything you realize a many when you look at the guys yeah you think he's sitting in a room and right somehow being complicit in maybe we should just polls that to see actually what was happened right you way he's doing yes ok I love that somebody's created this isn't a sellable portrait that's a lot of if it to sell a portrait is in the woods image the one question that a judge will look at when it goes into an illustrative awards is why and sometimes he doesn't have to be a while like the other judges obey like I don't care why it's bringing you know it's compelling it makes you look you realizing different elements the more you look at it and judges will argue that off that's why there's more than one judge so why why would you do that? And you know it's pretty pretty cool anything else you want to say? I think I did my thing I'm not gonna levitate pill I e you oh well maybe you could I feel like this is absolutely magnificent when it first comes onto the screen, your breath almost catches in your throat and then you go and have a close look at it and you can see the coverup masking off the here all the way around that background and it just breaks my heart, but that also means this is a critique on awards image, so I'm not going to be heartbroken. I'm just going to say to the author, keep going, you are so close to being incredible, but you're just not be yet on the masking is obvious and, you know, this levitation floating portrait being seen more often, this too much highlight on her dress and face, and it just doesn't quite match the background, but the way they've done their reflection is excellent, and I will come in the maker for doing something that seems very interesting and unique. I agree there were things he said other than that I think it's very compelling, and it wouldn't get my notice if I weren't seeing an image like this on your web site as a consumer, I would oh, and I wanted to something that was just very unique kind of portrait oh, I want to get that person because this is the kind of an image that not just any john dicker harry khun do it is something that people that are looking for a unique approach to whatever they're wanting are going to look for people like that, and you can't, you know, that's when you don't have tio compete on price to create this image, you have to have vision you have to, you know, it's not one of these things that, well, let's, just take a model out there she's pretty and decent stuff and randomly maybe get something right, and so this person actually thought about what they wanted to do, and you'll find that, um, the photos that you have a vision about, whether they're going to be judged great or bad, those are the ones that you're going to really love for you personally on so that's, when I what I take away from this was like, man, this person has vision on, I love it, I love the flow, but to me, um, the detail in the background takes my eye away more than I would have liked to see a little bit more detail on the dress and a little bit more shadow in there to keep my eye actually on the subject. This also shows that you can create a portrait without it being, you know, looking in the camera kind of picture, there are some images, like jennifer it's and does amazing portrait and quite often there about the person, not necessarily of the person like you don't see this sort of their face, but they're very much about who they're with their personality is like, and I know for myself, I really love that kind of approach, because I think that who you, what you were about sometimes says, more than just, you know, here this is who I am, this two distinct portrait's, too, is the ones that you create for awards in play, and then there's, the ones you sell to your clients, and I don't know which one of you seated, but when you're going to be compelling enough to get noticed online, and maybe just to get more portrait with, I could create a creative work or illustrated portrait that really what my clients want. But it brings me clients because they notice you, and then they look at your website, and then ultimately they bring you in both a portrait shoot that's, nothing to do with being illustrative and that's when you get to play into awards. Also, most international would standards now have illustrative portrait categories and traditional portrait category. So the girl with the leaf is what would go in a traditional portrait category, very minimal, reattaching only what you could do in the darkroom rules, and then this compass it background changing fantasy in the illustrative portrait so decide what you want to create how you want into the awards what you want to win and then make sure you're entering the right category because you would never judge off a liver taping floating shot with a girl with a leaf with no retouching because it's not fear you know and so I think that's really important I love this image it's so simple it is a simple portrait it's beautifully lit the tone of it is exceptional he's been styled to met his background his face an expression of perfect and sometimes the most basic portrait's are just excellent I want to be that guy you need a man I yeah I love this shot I mean, I love everything about it who would not want you know if your guy you are about the portrait of your mom or your wife or whatever um who would not want that it's very classic it's clean on dh that kind of goes to that rule of you know, a lot of times you can just do something if you could do something perfectly and cleanly that's better than trying to do some amazing pose or whatever and do something eighty percent correct I rather sometimes in a portrait have something that's one hundred percent correct and perfect I've been trying to do something wild and ms I think that's a big lesson there is when you are blogging and facebooking your images you're trying to impress the rest of the photographic community see that you are up against that are all on your page and on your block and on your website but the truth is it's the people you need to increase the people they're paying you and you must come back to even an every day person who knows nothing about photography would think that that is a classically beautiful image with buying and that's what you have to remember stop china and preserve the photographers just increased the hell of your clients was simple, beautiful portrait and you know let's talk about the posing for instance and his post is just beautiful. You notice that this gentlemen is not he's not standing flat footed he's not standing with both feet on flat on the ground he's got that back leg just kind of press forward a little bit and his full hand is in his pocket. I can't even tell how many photographs have seen where they have the little hot dog hanging out of the pocket here this is the thumb ok? And they'll do this you know, I have this really cool shot and then they have this little bomb hanging can you even imagine this guy with his thumb out of his pocket and look ridiculous so so the moral of the story is first of all, you want to get the weight off both feet I mean, on one foot you don't want to have the weight on evenly distributed unless you were really trying to get a masculine a guy that's you know make him look even stronger than you can do it you can bend the rules with guys but in this case when you have him leaning back see how he's kind of got that little bit of attitude going because he's got his weight shifted to this part of the hip and it's actually quite easy to do you just tell them to look their foot off the ground for a second and then just tell them to set it back down but really gently like they're going to step on a butterfly and they don't want to squish it and if you do that then they will that weight will shift to this leg because the old school way of people would go there go okay, we'll put your weight on your back foot and then people are clients would go and they throw themselves back and it looks stupid and they never get it right because that's photography term whereas if you just say you know I want you lift one foot off the ground while there's no other place to put your weight but the one that the leg that's down and then you're going to be able to get a shot that looks better. And with this guy this whole, the whole feel of his body language fits very well put his fate in that position pose him bambi in that great position. Yeah. Ok, so another thing I do when I imposing it. So you finally get the feet right? You know, people are awkward. I'll say, you know, some people staying more side onto you bring your ten back to the camera. Yeah, I'll say open your body up to may and instantly they just open their body out. Okay, so you want to say if somebody standing more side aren't you, tell him to open your body up, so just open the chest up to you once they start tuning the torso in a different direction to the league's it's wrong, but there is just enough is just a moment where they can just open the shoulders up tears so women can drop the front shoulder and open the body up this way, which actually look really cool. So you just say, open your body up to me and you could just go at this mira me open your body up to me, and they won't move their fate but it's just enough to bring in bring them into the forty five, which I think looks really good. And in addition to that, one of the thing that you can do that really adds strength it's up to someone is to have them lean forward slightly, not a lot, but if you have him lean forward, you notice how much more engaged he looks to you. So notice what happens with my arms if I leaned back? Do you see how I'm kind of making myself, you know, back off? I'm not interested, but notice what happens by just leaning forward? You see how that immediately changes the way that you perceive me to be body language is so I think it's important for guys and the confidence factor, that little bit of lean ford means I'm a leader, I'm confident and also to just one little like portrait tip when you're opposing a guy, if you the guy's head, can go towards the lower shoulder and it has strength, whereas if I turn my head to the higher one, doesn't it doesn't work so well in connection with always. If you have the up that shoulder a bit, you can turn his head lower a little bit forward has that masked man field. This is a fabulous photograph on, but this is the kind of image that I loved doing the kind of thing that is more day in the life kind of photography. What what mother would not want that on the wall? This could be a a sixty inch wall portrait in your in your home? I would you know, for me I look big faces there really interesting in their very contemporary, you know, for that young a family that's coming up if they had this was their daughter, I could see it, our white brick wall would look just fantastic, but what a fantastic image to make in a series of photographs, so don't just think about pope portrait being blue background you know the studio lights lovable, go to their home and do some day in the life of images that just works beautifully thiss image would not score in an international competition. Maybe it would get a bronze because it's like ho ham portrait boring, however, in a studio, if there was forty, sixty or fifty sixty exactly like that would be the first image I put in my studio and their image there would make me about half a million dollars writer years because if free woman that walks near my studio is going to take one, look at that and say put my child in a bath with bubbles that is magnificently that is so clever to be they're engaged with a face off a little girl in doing something like that, I mean, that blows me away so how could something not a win an award that be that compelling to a woman by any children? I want that I want to be in a bubble bath if you're an old lady hides all oh my god, I want you to move about on everything thie next the line you cross between being a portrait that's going to make you hundreds of thousands of dollars and an award that would necessarily know and you know, the author of this what might actually be bummed out if they put it into an international standard award and didn't get anything but it wouldn't matter. This is going to make you so much money as ridiculous and for all other portrait photographers out there, one clue here the inspiration of seeing awards images and critique images if you get inspiration from other people now, a lot of people will try and rip off this well image we get that everybody does there, but the truth is it into the day one little element in this image, which is bubbles has made this something that's so different than what you see every day just to be a little I mean, I actually like that little water drop that by her I too because I think if you took that away I wouldn't like it as much and I like the bubbles and him that yeah, a little perfection I kind of wish when I'm looking at it if her hair was a little bit more wet but I'm not going to be nitpicky about it but that little that little in for perfection really make us arnett picking and I know I am but I'm just you know, coming from supervise that I believe by this print my law I would like to buy this print for my wall I think this is spectacular uh love, love, love, love love everything about this picture I love the placement of the subject in the scene the fact that isn't that that left hand corner I love the gracefulness of the body love the color tone ality again all of the tone ality works it's all in harmony the way that they've toned this picture is very much in keeping with the feel of the photographs so it's not there's no contrast there. The one thing that is kind of I'm not really sure about is I just feel like I'd like to have a smidgen more of head room at the bottom so I could see what that is kind of in her arm I feel like she's holding onto reads or something like that you really like what it is it's obviously award a plan of some description it's the one thing that would stop me from giving his gold and yes, you're right about the head space but this single image and why I go to awards and why I love critiques this single image makes me want to be a photographer this image gives may fifty ideas of inspiration that give me that gussie gorgeous feeling that makes you just want to go and get it a camera and a client and just create something magical and I love that feeling to feel like that after twenty five years of shooting I just love that I can still be that excited well it gives to fifty ideas but gives me fifty one I know this I love flow of her body here and with the water and when you talk about posing it's it's always breaking those angles and that fluidity to it and this really does it I am a little bit I would like to see her I mean personally the head is too close to the edge and then what she's holding I'm not to buying into that but it's beautiful image I love the way it's post processed the tone of the skin um it's beautiful so is it a reflection or is it through glass that doesn't matter it's amazing it's really interesting this reminds me I don't know who the artist is but this reminds me very much of a famous artist picture of little girl denis reggie has it in this house is a matter of fact this is just very compelling it's gorgeous I don't know that and I love porch it's like this this is again it goes back to the fact that there are images for your that are just for, you know, to you know that are the high mon kind of pictures this to me would be the kind of portrait that somebody who has a great deal of very sophisticated palate would put in their home as a piece of fine art and one of the things that I try to do, what I'm doing images for clients is I do some of the images are the safe little things that I know I want to do, but then I always try to find some way to create a few interpretive moments and that way you give them a reason for something that is different and special that they might put on their wall. I don't know what would be in the sequence of images, but there's two things that are two directions I go in one of my immediate reaction is I love it and I love the background everything about it it's obviously shocked either through glass or in a reflection in some way I don't feel like there is enough of her face okay, now when I can't see a face, I need to know enough about it body language to feel comfortable with story and when I can't see a face, it looks very dark in and scary like to me as a child I feel scared alone, so I want to see a little bit more of that expression because that to me makes me feel like her answer by his side she's cold see peotone now if she was jumping and playing in the rain, then I would get the the water movement and I would understand the body language, so I feel like there's a little bit of a mismatch there when I can't see face I want to know body language so you can tell me what it is because if I don't know what it is, I'm going to either get confused and not like it or you know, so I just need a little bit more in the expression a little bit more in the faith say I actually love the face and I don't like her dress I feel like her dress I if they had I think if they had just change the dress into something that was more of a tone that was harmonious, I would be all over this because I actually really like the face a lot I like the fact that there's a subtle highlight on the nose but the dress to me just a little bit overpowering and it looks a little bit too posey from the neck down the top to me looks very interesting sorry all right that's ok um I'm not totally buying into this photos but I think it's very creative and I like what the photographer did and um but you know, there's just some photos that hit people differently and I can appreciate what this person did, but I'm totally not buying into it I mean, I don't know if I'm not sophisticated whatever, but it just looks like a puppy space on top of the kid's body andi I'm focusing on the dress, but then the dress is not as it seems like, you know, the photographer wants you to look at the dress first and then because the dress is not interesting enough for me, I don't know yeah, maybe if it's like you said if if it was suppose differently it was movement or whatever I could buy into it, but as a portrait and the stillness of it it's not grabbing me, but I can appreciate the creativity of the artist love to see a dancer in there. Yeah, I love they just said dance movement yeah, you know what very interesting with filters, reflections and glass when you're judging in a wood you're not allowed to assume what the treatment oven images because you could be wrong. And when the authors all the maker is sitting behind you in the room, watching their image being judge, feeling like the guts of being ripped out publicly, even though it's anonymous you really sit there and you think to yourself, well that's not what I did, I did not shoot through glass, so assuming that is incorrect also, you got to remember this could be a treatment put on and finish up or one completely done in camera, and I hate it when judges say bruce has been over photoshopped when it's straight out of camera really on you think to yourself, no, I created there and it's so in create, but you need to understand if you're sitting in their ambiguous moment between making a print that could this be over fairly shopped? Is this a treatment that looks like I put it on and finish up? Can I make this more obvious it's really hard to do because you're very involved in the making of the image and sometimes you need to have a mentor my face towards I won eight awards because I had a master mentor. I went to somebody who had won awards and said, would you mental me? You can pay someone to mentor you if you can't get them to, but think about their go to somebody but you really got to choose at the end of the day you're got instinct on how you feel about an image because I always think about it like this if it doesn't win I don't care I still love it so whatever anybody judges may I always say I don't care I still love this image and it's still on my website if I love it it's going to help me get more wick corky clever cued nice uh studio shot not I don't know necessarily you know award winning type of material but I love the image has a place for sure I'm thinking down yeah it's very pretty and it's if this were on your on your web site I think it would definitely get people interested in you because it does have she's got a great expression on her face and I think that's really an important thing I think she looks very engaged to the camera and to the to the photographer I like the way it frames her face with her I think that's very cute and I like the contrast of the lollipop being a heart ask yourself what else what else can I bring to the shoot you see I would've bought that pet but haley bartholomew would've bought their head in that lollipop because she thinks like that I don't think like that I think faces that lollypop makes the image and you know that can't be but a way yeah, you could get me I call it molly you know it's wrong yeah all right so you know, the truth is is what else can I bring without overdoing it? Take one thing off he don't need to this is brilliant but what's great about I think is that you see that slight smile there in her eyes and that's like and if she didn't do that it wouldn't work right beautiful connect that's a different that's the difference right that's the art of portraiture that just like getting that slight smile so easy to miss it you could go there oh, I got this great hat I got this lollipop and you just do it but then you miss is that expression of that slight smile so when I teach photographers I always say you shoot the twinkle it's called the twinkle you don't shoot until you get the twinkle and that twinkle is everything in portraiture you know you know when you get there little twinkle in the eye just that twinkle when the eyes of sh my zing you know eyes smiling smiling eyes smiling yeah that's what it is you get the smi thing and then you've got the twinkle when you get the twin feel you got the magic well, you know what kate because sues very magical right to get that twinkle you have to reflect that twinkle and so many photographers, they what I feel that is your photography is the mirror of your soul, so if you don't have that, you're not going to get the twinkle, you're not gonna get that that s so you have to put yourself out there and you can't be afraid to make a fool of yourself and be silly, you know, what's the worst that can happen, I mean, you really have to just be willing to give it up, and if you can, it won't be the last time you look foolish or you make a fool out of yourself. I mean, there's always tomorrow and so so I'd be willing to do that because they give people reason to smile don't ask him to do so and it's always to me, the people that are the logical technicians that's the tough road for them because they can get it technically, right? But if you do not have, if you're the personality of a carpet, then you need to, like, you know, go to your happy place and find someone who inhabits her body to give it up for that. People always say they can see may in my photographs now that means when they meet me, they're like, you know, I can see you in your photograph, so when somebody fist told me that was susan desire I looked at ces it's photographs and she should screaming kids like three year old and she is so vibrant and loud and funny and I was like I can see you in your photographs so that means that space we hold that the reflection bag is very, very obvious so you have to think about what angle you going to do is this assault appreciated a sixty bed wire you must reflect that in some way in order to get that and if you really think about that you go into that shit with their energy or find the energy ships and your results it's about being vulnerable and it's very hard you know realize that's really when my work I feel started to come alive is when I was vulnerable with myself and I could go there um with the client ah and that's when I really started to notice a difference with my work it really wasn't anything technical wasn't like because I could use you know, seven lights or whatever even though you can and you can I can do them one shot right now but it wass that vulnerability of myself and I had I have baggage that I had baggage there on and everybody has baggage right? I don't want to get into it my baggage wass but there was some baggage there preventing me to be vulnerable and be confident with myself and it was preventing my photography to get to that world class level on dhs but once I was able to get over myself and say dude everybody's got baggage get over it right and be yourself and I was able to create because all your client wants is for you to be strong enough to get them into a space yeah you can get the photographs that they've always dreamed of burning and they want you to do that you know and then the best fathers you know how many people come to you and they go I just want really candid shots like I'm not really looking at the camera and just lots of personality and thats really vibrant smiling shots and you're thinking how am I going to do there there's nothing the I go down to the shop bring back a personality you know, maybe we could get this and I don't know they are beer there in there and everybody laughs and even even the most introverted person in the world becomes an extra bit when there excited about something and when they're having fan even an interview it is extroverted when they're enthusiastic and anybody who feels comfortable in your space that your owning will come forward and when they come forward you capture it and then you sell it back to them isn't it crazy beautiful girl absolutely beautiful, beautifully lit beautifully posed what what do you say? Um uh not too sold too much straightness of that hand maybe was a slight little angle to create more of a be there. But, you know, it is beautiful. The photography the photographer definitely understands how to use lighting in a way to create a beautiful portrait. There's no question, I think about that. I don't feel that there's a connection in her eyes. This is exactly what these two kids were just talking about. I think she's sitting there and she they've got her in a nice pose and she's probably going, you know, I got that text message from him last night and he didn't call me today and we're supposed to meet it two o'clock or whatever. She's doing laundry in her head or something cause she's not with us she's. Not even there. But you look at her scottish she's. Beautiful she's. Gorgeous. I mean, this is a perfect twenty. You know what this is? This is where a lot of photographers for down from a she's a model? Yeah. Ok. So she's hungry about that and she was hungry and itself. But to me there's a model face in the supporters face now this is a model face plastic model face beautifully shot. I wouldn't I don't fault this I love this image I think it is make never sent yes, we all wish our clients all looked like there but you know there's an emptiness to it that you get from models that you don't get in your portraiture. So if it's a portrait fail if it's a model outstanding there's not much else we can say lovett wow nice. I like the post processing with it actually yeah and has that cross process so my my initial struggle is no eyes I need to see eyes as we talked about before when I said I don't see just hands um I think it works because the eyes aren't showing I because now I start I think it has it makes me feel sometimes if I see the eyes looking back at you we start making I think personal assumptions and interpretations like the image that we just saw when you look in her eyes you start you can start saying ok she's not really engaged it's nothing really going on to me when I see her hands the way they were around her mouth on the fact that there's that kind of bit of wave around where the eyes or I can still see a bit of her eyes but I think it gives it takes it from being just a picture of a girl in the water you know, looking in the camera to being, well, that's really interesting, and I'm compelled by it to me, I like it because I don't see the eyes and it makes me want to see them, and it has that kind of mystery behind it that makes it a little bit more compelling. So I'm going now. I love it. Okay, I get it. You talked me into it because you know what I just realized. I realized that I always say to you, portrait makers, there are two types of portrait. There is a portrait off somebody so there's a picture of cuban and then there's a picture of a man. Now the difference is you wouldn't buy it. Find out a picture of cuban because you don't know, given alicia knew him, but you would buy a piece of art that has a person that is representative off. A piece of this is that this isn't necessarily that's my sister kate. That is a piece about that you would put on your wall that you would see in a funky cafe that you would, you know, seeing a hotel I love and that makes me love it is a piece of art, yes, beautifully treated, I could see this in some modern home over a couch, a white couch big like eighty inch acrylic oh absolutely gorgeous you know people in the chat when we're saying this isn't really a portrait I don't understand why it's being judged right now and I just think that the portrait category especially and the boundaries probably get pushed constantly as to what is a portrait I know we touched on that earlier what is imported do you have to be looking at the camera? You know the image of the image where the man has a gun to his forehead is that really a portrait? Well it's illustrative portrait or editorial portrait so when we talk about this yeah this farm national portrait there is editorial portrait there is illustrative portrait which is more complicit this fine at portrait take all of those exist in the portrait realm in an international judging standards they exist in the own categories because like o c if you couldn't judge the leaf girl which doesn't have any retouching up against the levitation shot which obviously has some form of composite so the truth is they don't belong in the same judging category but today is an open portrait chris take off all of those subjects so it would you going to be very hard to tell people what the perimeters where when we just went portrait bang and we got four hundred portrait starring in there awesome so do you feel like as faras regular photo cheeks or photo cheese that w p p I say do you feel like the portrait categories are being pushed constantly as to what is a portrait even within those segmented portrait sections? So the big argument for me is I'm an illustrative portrait awards into photography I only enter the compass it illustrative big, flashy photoshopped ones that a lot of people hate because it's like that's not photography that's finish up competition, which is fine because that's the competition I want to compete in I want to be in the british up competition okay, so you traditionalist out there you know you hand on hat big gaps tio not my thing so they clearly defined those primitive and you just you print nowadays want get in because they'll look at the pre entry and they'll ring you and they'll say you've entered this into traditional it's clearly complicit and they pull it immediately and put it in the right category. We've spent years judging making sure people are in the right category to be judged so you know they are pretty they're pretty good but that you won't see this cross over that you're saying with these twenty images up here okay, great, I'm glad that we wear that away yeah, we do have the twenty images up on our screen, so why don't we take some questions from our in studio audience? And then we'll do a couple from online as well model releases when you submit a picture of a person to a contest oh yes yeah because if you win and it goes around the world you're about to be sued also you should never photograph anybody without a model release you are a professional photographer and you have a right to protect yourself and your business nobody gets photographed without a model release in my studio not only that I'm sorry but not only that but you also even if you're gonna post a facebook and things of that nature um whatever you do have a model release it does it is just extremely important how would that work like the photojournalism contest? You are there's like a bunch of people and you know they're shooting in syria or something and, you know, check with your with your attorney within a trend that but there is like it was there be a degree of privacy expected if you're out on the street? Is there really a degree of privacy expected it's like you know when when the paparazzi photograph the celebs and such yeah when they're walking when it's a public form or place then it's considered public and you're not allowed to defile a subject in any way? So if you happen to do in traditionally photo journalistic work is the subject not looking at the camera you've just caught them in their own environment or even in you know, that's, not environmental portraiture. That's actually photojournalism. So if you're walking to bangkok and you take photographs off strangers, you know, but if you defile that subject in any way, they're going to have a right of reply. So there's always that gray area. But there is a hotly debated subject or lied. You'll find a lot of argument about that this's a cubs of all portrait is that how is that affecting your guys? Judging than you know, in this in this particular competition, I have one thing. You have to kind of see it in its own category. So I think, you know, you already just kind of place it in different categories already. But we should probably explain that before we started taking way basic. Well, I know what I do. Whenever I look at at an image, I'm looking at that particular photograph, what does it say? And so I'm not going well, this one did this, and this one did this once we have, in my opinion what I would do if I had five images, I'm going to say, if I look at all five of these images, which one of these photographs has a is there anything about yet each of them that would make me go? Well, this would be perfect if it's not about whether it's I like this one better or better than this, but to me it's like, is this absolutely is how close to perfection is it? I actually think we judged each image or critique digs image based on the category it did exist in, so if it was more traditional, were like, this is what I love about it, and if it wasn't, but when we were trying to judge moore from the technical and giving you options and trying to educate you through what they did wrong, but I feel like we judge them appropriately and it's weird, like the mork opposite images don't excite me more than the traditional images in terms of judging or quit taking them. I like them just as much on and, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what we've picked as the winner, all right, any questions from the studio on it? So you guys, I just had a quick clarification on the model, really he's so if you're into a photo that doesn't actually show someone's face to the same rules apply like if it's just the hit further since the picture that's just if they can identify it is them they can't see you so yeah, you would need to get a model release if it winds and it goes around the world when they see that and they're like I never gave you permission for the image I want to be paid for it I'm your at a lost were thank you. Mine is actually also on the same I there was there was someone that I saw that they they travel and they photograph people and they may just take that initial photo, but then, you know, to really push it to the next level approach the person and that person may not speak the same language, and so my question is, how do you how do you get around that with the language barrier? And is it considered the photo journalistic style? Because they're out in public so it's free range but then the second you make contact with them and you re posed them, I feel like it. It crosses over into you needing tio exactly, and then andrew question. And then so if you are creating a book, you're a travel photographer and you create a book on do you use those images what's your liability? You would want to talk to your attorney, okay, also, you've got to be very careful with any logos you photographing signs logo you have to be really careful with all of those because this is the thing you're now making money off my image exactly. So there's a difference between winning an award off my image and making money even the prize money of an award is making money, but once you making money off my evitar you're getting remnant is you don't know in an image somebody is going to come up against you and you need to be particular I cannot to the travel book because I do not know but I know that lots of people out there will so maybe that's a subject we can put on the block and you know there's this little app for your iphone that is a photographer's it's got all kinds of stuff on it's got, you know, model releases and all kinds of things, so if you just have an iphone with you or you know one of the phones that handles the phone aps you can have them sign a release right on the spot it's a great app, I have it on my phone and it's been very helpful. All right, well, we have some questions from our worldwide audience chris wallace asked if we could talk a little bit more about skin softening several of the female images they say seem over perfect, no pores and almost plastic how far should people go and how far do you go on your own work? I think it's very easy to say that when you've got low resolution images on a computer screen because there was so many images there where we could see skin teacher in an retouch faces often already touched something and then downsizing for facebook on my block and it looks over retouched and I've even had somebody comment and say these look over retouched, but the truth is is it wasn't in my screen and it certainly wasn't big, so when they do get smaller they do look a little soft, but I didn't think a lot of we didn't want to say this images over reattached and yet that is a very common critique for me to say because I should glamour and beauty, so obviously I see a lot of ovary touching, but I don't think there was a lot in there that still had a lot of facial texture great and I just want to let everybody at home know if you if you weren't aware that this company this was this competition was facebook so some of our images are not exactly high rez and that's what suze referring to if you were unaware if why maybe some images looks off to you so I just want to keep that on the record all right? So we have a question paul has a question you mentioned in some of your portrait it's that this one wouldn't win an award but would sell or vice versa how do you see side taking photos for sale to keep your business running versus photo that inspire caused people to stop think and ask questions inspire etcetera and I know we did touch on this earlier, but I'm wondering if you were to have someone enter a photo contest I guess the main concept it's not about whether I was so you know he didn't touch on that as a business owner and is a studio owner my first thought is for my client and I take lots and lots of photographs that I would never entering competition because they wouldn't sell but my clients paid me very well to do an amazing job so I get green merits instead of gold awards and things of that nature. However, what I do is I give myself a day about every six weeks or so that's my play date for me to play do whatever I want to go what if I worked with some local hair salons and then I'll create? I'd like to create fund garment sort of unique things like newspaper and window screens and stuff and so we'll get together and we create a theme for the day the last time we did it it was the theme of the day was ice cream and so the hairstylist created a very unique hairstyle for the model toe wear, and the makeup artist came in and they collaborated on this look, and then I photographed the event are this experience and so all of us benefit from this kind of experience. I think this is a terrific way to move your talent to the next level. And the crazy thing is, is those wacky experiences because they're so much fun the next time you're doing a photo shoot, maybe it's six months later, you shoot and something about that photo shoot, maybe it's a little spiral with the cherry on top of this crazy girl wearing an ice cream cone on her head. You're doing a photo shoot and you remember some little aspect of that play time, and you're able to integrate that fun concept in a real way with your client or in that particular client. So it's a terrific way, and I think every photographer should do both. I think you should give yourself permission to play and that's why I wear two hats when I'm working with a client, I really want to take it for them because I want to make them happy it's not about me and think sue brought that out earlier, but I do want to have some time at some point. When I want to be able to play myself and just say I don't care if anything comes out I could make all the mistakes I want nobody's going to judge me and I might get something great good yeah you said it would work out your experience so that you can make lots of mistakes and work the bugs out of you know new poses that you're trying to work if you've taken a workshop things like that so just be aware that winning category images have to be really weddings in real time you can't do workshop models can't do play models for winning traditional family images have to bay riel commissions so actual clients that really paid you for a shoot those air in the rules so those categories have judged on that biased so all the others are fear ground for play and that's where let's say you get their guy comes in with a long beard that was on the master's shot with the finger magnificent study and he is any incredible I would photograph him and his girlfriend to a great shoot of them and then I would sell it to them and then at my sailfish in I would say I loved working with you would you be one of my awards models I would love to do an illustrative photo shoot off you outside of being sold to if you see a character find a character definitely play shoot them but if I was going into the traditional category and it had to be in real commission time I would take one of the images from the shoot and into that. So depends which ground you're playing in which depends on your rules that you know the rules. You can push them as far as you want. Okay, well, just make sure you do it after they after they paid for that commission probe booth she first. Okay, well, what? We cover that again? I think that should be squared away going forward. So another question came up as far as what is the benefit of winning an award in a photo critique? You're not really making money for your business, but do your clients care if you win an award? Clients dike here it awards are public masturbation. They get noticed in your industry. Yeah, there is twelve thousand dollars with the prize is going out of this room today it will get you noticed and it will stimulate a three part off your competitiveness, your creativity and your ability being added, I think it's just part of your journey you know, of wanted to express yourself and you know it's not going to make a difference maybe on, you know your client getting more money or business but it's your own personal achievement towards excellence and creativity and vision and it's just invigorated when you enter a contest right there prince in there you are just like thiss dervis excitement builds in you it's that hope hope that you know and we've got to keep putting our place there and when it when you win that award or you're walking up on stage or whatever and get that crystal is like calling your hand is like something for you that you can feel proud about love that all right? Let's, take a couple more questions and then we'll take our next break question from photo girl do you always need to retouch for a competition photo? Girl likes it when images are raw and rheal but would that ever win a contest? Oh, yes, and the traditional categories it will, but if you put something like that and illustrative category, then die, so make sure like abc is that you are can't agree sensitive to what you're entering and yes, you can be as traditional as you want in the traditional category photojournalism you are not allowed to retouch anything. So if you want to enter something that's all natural for for the photo journalistic competition, you must send them a raw file I would love to see a raw file for every for all of those kinds of categories I think there's a place for composites and I love composites but I would love to see any category that's supposed to be showing a normal, you know, like a traditional image, I would love to require that you see the raw file because I think that really separates the men from the boys and here's my biggest reason for wanting to do that is that many there are a number of photographers who are you know, they're okay it's photographers, but they have a killer killer re toucher or in digital artist's johnson penny is probably the most amazing digital artist I've ever seen, and that guy can create the masterful images from from photographs that are not necessarily that you would never look twice at if you thought you wouldn't even it would never even make an eighty s corbin eighty or anything, so I'd love to see even more of that great, and this is kind of a question along the same lines, britney santos says. Typically, we pose hands to the side because there are more beautiful, but if it's a portrait to tell a story about someone or or something more editorial, can we show hands post awkwardly with veins and wrinkles and things like that session and editorial break all the roles? We can tuck chins and we can, like really hard on the face. We can show the backs of hands anything that's telling a story needs to be expressive in a portrait, their hands away. You're going to look in an image, so you need to take them down to the side or take them away. But when its editorial affection you could be is being twisted and you know, I'm a stuff that he likened it six genre and another question from photo chick does a photo have to be a human face to be a portrait? Could it be a pet? Is that considered? Would that be included in the portrait category or that's, a different category, a different category for pat you actually can you imagine after many years of judging different categories in all of these arguments, going into a full blown that somebody's like my dog portrait just scored nothing in there that you know, and they've now let's make another category when there's enough on, you know, when there's enough, they'll create and you can agree for it.