Finding the Right Client
We're gonna start off with finding the right client okay, but before we do, why don't we define the wrong client so really quick quickly is going to like a jeopardy power session grab those mikes what is the wrong client online? Start typing what do you believe the wrong client to be one word adjectives price shoppers buy shoppers low ballers waller's not big ballers, low ballers all right, people that don't appreciate photography being go people I don't appreciate photography doesn't necessarily mean cheap means they don't appreciate photography people that don't appreciate a respect to your time respect of your time I love it guy hit me danielle people that I don't want prince they just want looking for the cd of images yes, these air not our client's guys so here's my definition of what the wrong client is cheap don't appreciate fine art are indifferent to what we're doing they just don't care it's good enough right there just looking for a guy or gal with a camera it's just good en...
ough that is not my client that is not your client stop dealing with those clients let them go remember the bell curve I showed you the other day those are the people sitting at the bottom end of that bell curve we don't want them in our studio we just don't have capacity if you're a high volume studio if you're the walmart of photography well, you can shoot two thousand photo, shoot today, you are a year, you'll take anybody who comes through the doors. That's fine. That is not the model I'm trying to teach you to build. I'm trying to be teachable model that is built upon skill that is built upon artwork on the people who appreciate it. They want to haggle with you about everything. I mean, everything. I had a dad walk in, and I wonder how most of you would handle the situation walked into my booth at a bridal show. I've been talking to his daughter for a half hour. She loved our work. He walked into my booth and he said, um, yeah, way want to book you, but this this isn't gonna work and he's pointing my pricing sheet like we're not gonna be able to do this. What we're gonna do is we're going to go boom, boom, boom and it's going to be two thousand dollars. My price was starting at four thousand dollars. God just tried toe arm, wrestle me into going fifty percent off and telling me how it was gonna work. That did not fly right? So I immediately. Push back on them and I said dad, I appreciate everything he's saying I know you're trying to do a great job for your daughter, but unfortunately I didn't just make these prices up out of thin air. This is based on what it's going to cost me to be at your daughter's event and produce your daughter's event correctly you do want me to produce your daughter's event correctly? You don't want me just showing up being pissed off that you booked me at this price to you changed the entire dynamic of the conversation, so don't be afraid when people are pushing on you to push back don't take it personal don't get all offended and huffy because somebody's trying tow challenge on your prices think like a business person let them no no in fact I cannot do that if they choose to book you at that point time great right? Just because they haggle with you one time don't go well south said wait if they haggle, they're not your client that's not what I'm saying right? Don't take what I'm saying out of context if they're hag if that's all they want to do is haggle along with all these other things see the signs that are thumping you on the head and run away from that client okay um looking for everything for free, right? They don't value our time never happy no matter what you can do you do you're not making them happy, right? I shouldn't have clients getting pissed off because I missed a delivery date by a day by two days it's not that big a deal this is not an exact science of course I would love to overdeliver for them, but things happen in the world of business and in life we're not always going to hit those liveable. So if you're already dealing with clients that are getting upset about this kind of stuff that's got to be assigned to you that this is going to be a problematic client moving forward. Run uh refer more bad clients that's the other thing we have to understand bad clients refer mohr bad clients so once you start doing this man, it is a vicious cycle to try and get away from this. You don't think people talk, you don't talk I said to you, hey, where is the cheapest place I can get? My, um, teeth cleaned, you're going to start referring me because bad clients to another bad experience now that dentist right, who isn't really a dentist he's just a guy with the sand grinder and it cleans teeth I don't know I'm making this up, but he's gonna pull me in and you guys are referring yet another bad client okay, because you're bad client I'm looking for good clients who will refer more good clients and we're all getting run the risk of getting caught up in that again wrong clients dollars not the only factor we have to show value in order to find the right clients it's not just about dollars, okay? There's other factors involved. So what are the right clients? First and foremost, they appreciate the products or services that you offer. This is the most important part here willing to afford you. This is a key takeaway and goes back to your story yesterday race where we're talking about that grandmother your client was a multi millionaire didn't see value in photographers but the grandmother did see value in photography and she was willing to find a way to afford it that's my client that should be all of our clients everyone has money for what they want to have money for everyone and we have to understand that and more importantly, believe it look to your own life look to your friends, your family and you will see people spending money on things and you just scratch your head on have a holiday affording that okay not it's not our problem to figure out how they're gonna afford our photography that's not our problem if they see value in it they're willing tto find away hell for a wedding don't get those chair covers don't get those custom eminem's don't get the foil stamped napkins you figure out what's important to you what's a priority for you? I'm looking for that client who sees it as a priority to get their wedding portrait stun? I'm looking for that client sees it as a priority get those family portrait done that's the client I'm looking for uh they're going to refer not always, but they're more capable of referring mohr good clients because they run in the same circles they talk to each other just like bad clients run in the same circles good clients run in the same circles they talk to each other they compare notes no where'd you go they want to play this keep up with the joneses game right? Well, susie, especially seniors. Seniors are amazing. Well, susie went to southend kata we will have parents come in and ask us what their friends spent on pictures. Okay that's how competitive they are with each other I don't care. I'll cash in on that all the way to the bank. You wanna compete with susie that's? Fine. What susie do susie went black label we're going black label I just laugh ok, right so didn't understand this is consumer behavior this whole keeping up with the joneses mentality is in fact consumer behavior you want them to have connection to you and your art if they're just making a price decision when they sit down in that meeting with you, they're not connected to you and you know the difference, right? We all know the difference when we sit down, which is vibing with somebody and then they and then they don't book us, we almost feel like hurt, right when they don't book strike. How did that happen? Where this amazing conversation with him you're looking for that in all your clients? Will you achieve it one hundred percent of the time? No, but I achieve it a lot of the time with my client's, right? They become friends, they become part of the family, so to speak, that's what we're looking to accomplish with them, they're looking to enjoy the overall experience, guys, people who are not willing to get involved or engaged in the experience you're offering meaning coming to your studio and see the pictures drinking the wine and champagne that you might put out for them if they're not willing to engage in that experience, they're not really your client, they're not looking for what you're putting out there, and that becomes very, very important to understand, and of course, they're easy going. So just recently I had a client I got really backed out my schedule got screwed up back home this is about a month ago a month and a half ago and the client was waiting at our studio for us for me for almost forty five minutes right? And this is the initial wedding car I'm like oh man they are irene knew what was gonna happen right there going oh you you show up on our wedding day right? So I'm fully expecting this I go in I apologize I defuse the situation and the guy was just giving riding me hard man but it was in a fun way and we just laughed about it and it turns out not only are they my clients I'm their photographer right he'd get he gets it he had fun with me with it and I could laugh at myself I apologized for it on dh they booked me they ended up booking me and so now we go to their engagement shoot which was like last week or something I get there like fifteen minutes early there was no way he was gonna pull up and wait for me and the first thing he says to me when he pulls up he's like I see you decided to show up on time today okay? So you've got to be able to laugh at yourself once in a while and understand that he's an easy going client. He gets it he's sure he's ripping me a little bit but he gets it that things happen right? You don't want that client that turns it oh, my god, I cannot believe we waited this long. You know, we really expect a discount now what? Like, seriously, suck it up? You waited, you know, half hour and not that I'm happy about making you wait, but I'm definitely not going to give you a discount on your wedding because of that. Because what happens if I miss a picture of your invitation on your wedding day? What do you expect now? Fifty percent off your wedding package, right? So you've got to start reading the signs and getting closer to identifying your client. Is that making sense? What is the biggest challenge you're seeing? And I am going to just hand pick a couple of you, jules, what do you think? The challenges in finding your client connecting to them? Did you two find who that person is? You know, I sat down with all that all of our past clients and compared them and made notes and there was never one common thing other than they booked us, right? As far as being your client, you mean, yeah, like trying to market to that circle or that type of person actually love what you're saying by the way because that does not make your client everybody out there that's not your client just because they book you they're not your client just because they have money they're not your client in fact that's how you start getting closer and closer to not your client I'm not getting good referrals because you have no idea right of the profile think about if this was like an fbi case who is your client? What is the profile of your client? This has sticks start coming in to the equation and the minute you start putting that into the equation and it becomes second nature what's going to end up happening is you're going to sense your client the minute you sit down with him I could tell the minute I'm sitting down with somebody if they're my client or not has nothing to do with the way they're dressed their financials sure if they come in and their dress and they've got all high end clothing and all that other stuff I know one thing I know they've got money I know they can afford me but that doesn't mean they're my client and so that becomes very very important so is this making sense? Is this something you ever formulated and put into words or just kind of felt it I felt it I mean of course those air all I think those are obvious you know and with our clients that's who they are but trying to find them in the sea of clients and potential clients you know, bridal show our or how am I gonna market? Where are those people so let's talk how do we zero in on the right client writes a perfect segway so like you get your you're all going hey, I get it that list sounds amazing how do I start honing in on them? So we're going to go to back to the bell curve from from day one I want you guys to start trying to ignore everything on the left side of that hash mark there, okay? So that's probably about fifty, thirty percent or below, right? They're just not going to be your client they're not your client financially, they can't afford where you're going, so if they can't afford you, yes, there certainly within reason people can find money for what they want, we have to understand that that segment of the market not only financially but just artistically I don't care about what you're offering their indifferent to it. I don't want to focus there, I want to folks start focusing in the meat of the market so that's step number one we've gotta change right are calibration or gps if you don't change the calibration or gps, you're just gonna keep going in the wrong direction can you imagine if you were trying to drive back to denver back? Teo, you know, st louis and you're just like driving around you don't know where you're going. You have no direction. You need that compass. You need that gps to get you there in that list is part of the gps right of getting you there to start to see these things off. This is what the right client looks like. This is what the wrong client looks like. So how do we find that? That right, client? Well, first and foremost, we have to incorporate everything we talked about from day one when I say everything, I'm not talking about the facebook side of things. I'm talking about the brand building the brand, see high end clients, our clients who are looking for right artistic artwork have a brand okay in their mind, your brand has to be something beyond mom and pop. They have to look at your logo, they have to look at your website and feel like they're looking at mercedes benz louis vuitton thes high end companies that they're all used to seeing so it's like where's waldo if I'm looking at all these brands, okay, because that's what I do, they shop online. They look at cars, they look at websites, they read magazines, they see advertisements in magazines and I see all these high end things but then I get to your company and it looks like mom and pop they're not going. They're not gonna make the connection that you're a high end brand so all those things have to come in from day one understand the power of testimonials we have to give people a reason to spread the word about us. What reason are you giving them to spread the word giving them any reason why you just took it? You took a good photograph, that's it there's gotta be more to it that you're giving them a reason to talk about this and spread the word about you and your business collect those testimonials understand the power of them understand the power of making things right again? I can't stress enough we are not perfect. Nothing about our studio. Our brand is perfect. We make mistakes, we missed deadlines. We screw up orders it's not about that it's about what you do to make it right. Your clients will in fact be patient with you, but if you blow it off if you blame them uh if you don't give them any credibility, can you imagine being pissed off about something and calling your cell phone company and they just blow you off you guys we all go through that right that's a bad customer service experience when we're going through that why would you want to put your clients through that they're going to feel the same way you felt give them validity give what they're complaining about validity and you will find that even though somebody may have had a misstep in the experience or you missed a shot or something like that happened they'll still give you a good testimonial we have that happen all the time we have clients who will spread the word and they had a bad experience at one client we just started out on video and I had one client it took me ten months to get them their video and they were so angry there's just nothing I can do video was new for us at a video editor who quit we were scrambling to get it all figured out when I finally got there I apologized I told them the situation I didn't lie to them I said here's where we're at unfortunately I can't get it to you any sooner my apology can I get you a free sixteen by twenty four campus to make up for it right so I was trying my best to make up for it when they got their video okay they were blown away and they thanked us for keep talking them through the process they have since referred to weddings okay, so that is the power of testimonial don't just give up on somebody because they had a bad experience with you make make it right get them back on track the products you're carrying that is going to attract the right client to the right client doesn't want a cd. Believe it or not the right client doesn't want that cd I had a bride tell me one time she was looking through my packages she's like what is what is this digital negative thing she was every photographer I goto I see this the cd what am I supposed to do with that? I just smiled right? Like I love you right now you are my client she doesn't want she's like I'm too busy I'm not scrapbooking this is not what I want to do she was I want you to handle all the delivery of all our products. I'm like yes, yes we will I said so this is for you so that you have archived if in the event you want to print off a family picture and something like that and you don't want to come to me for it this is there for you as an option we will handle all other delivery for you and she was very, very happy why? Because that client isn't looking to become a photo shop expert so that scrapbooking mom not my client that mom wants to know I'm selling eight by ten prints for fifty bucks you want to buy a fifty dollars eight by ten from me and go cut it up and put it in a scrap book? No that's not my client they're not coming to me they're not looking for that. What services are you offering? If all you're offering is time in a cd, you are actually attracting the wrong clients so you can't offer time in a cd is an option and then be like that's al I don't understand it I don't understand why we can't book better weddings better clients it's your fault you're booking bad clients because you're offering the wrong services you want to attract a clientele who's looking for take full service and tow and full service I don't wanna get stuck in what you can afford now and what you can't afford. We have to understand where you want your brand to be twelve months from now, twenty four months from now, so even if you're starting out, start out, get on the right track don't start off doing things wrong, so you've got to try and get away from shooting and burning as quickly as possible the brand I know we just talked about this when we're talking about day one, but the brand is powerful, you've got to build a brand identity and was awesome you guys because we talked about justin and what he did for jules logo jeff and jewels and their studio and you guys crashed justin's website and visual or and I think about four minutes, so that was really cool, but you've got to make that investment man you can get a logo a professionally design logo for about six hundred bucks, right? So why would you not make that investment? Why would you go buy another toy lens flash anything before you invest in the primary thing your clients are looking for and that's your brand identity that is the foundation of everything, so we've got to make that invest. Have you ever thought about interviewing them to zero in? Why do you think? Why do we always photography think everybody's interviewing us first we're interviewing them. How the hell do I know I want to work with you? I don't care how much money you're paying with me. Pay me. I may not even want to work with you. You already sounding like high maintenance? No, thank you. Okay, I'm gonna go play golf on your wedding day. I want you to think about me while I'm out there. Okay, so how about when you sit down right, whether it's, a senior clients of family client, a baby klein or if you're on the phone ask the question. What do you guys looking for? A photographer? You will be surprised at the answers that come back. There's. Nothing wrong with starting. You're meeting your phone call with that question. Guys, thanks for coming in and sitting down with us. Um, tell me a little bit about your day. Have them explain to you there day. And when they're done talking about their day before you ever showed them prices about guys, that all sounds amazing. If you don't mind, I got another question for you. Can you tell me a little bit about what your initial thoughts are? What are you looking for in a photographer? And you'll be surprised at what comes out of them. I've had people tell me we're looking for someone who is just going to kind of be invisible for the entire day. Let me tell you not my client. I am not going to be invisible on your wedding day. There's no chance of me. Just sitting in a corner right with my fanny pack taking pictures. That's not gonna happen. That's. Not me. I'm engaged, directing the couple. I'm moving things around and I let them know that. Because if I don't what's gonna end up happening is we're going to get through this whole thing and they're gonna be pissed off when their wedding day's over and I don't want that I want them to be happy and I say them guys it's just not our style here we're very involved and then I start pointing them the pictures in our studio and I go guys if you look at a portrait like this this was not accidental this was actually completely posed completely handheld to get them there and then they start rethinking if that is truly what they're looking for or did they read about that in a magazine because don't forget martha stewart not have massive influence on today's bridegrooms sometimes it's not always a positive influence on them so we have to be able to reset expectations but don't be afraid right to interview them and ask questions of them so jules back to how does that make you does that make a little more sense on how you start zeroing in? Do you feel like this is something that makes a little bit more sense? Absolutely so can you start doing this tomorrow internet can you start doing this tomorrow? Absolutely today today yeah get any requests we're doing it today and so portrait ce seniors, families, babies all of this can happen in that initial conversation this has to be your mission getting you to this point where you start honing in just like kat said right in her little testimonial air she's finding the right clients and they're spending more money in her studio now I would make the argument maybe I'm wrong here, but she's probably didn't become a better photographer she's probably the same photographer she was right or on ly incrementally better but what's changed is the way she's running her business that's the key thing to understand that's when it changed for us so two thousand seven two thousand eight we made that change we started becoming a real business and then it exploded for us because we finally started doing things the right way south massacring question I think you bring up a really valid point about the interviewing can you talk a little about the difference? I mean a lot of times when you ask hey, what are you looking for? Never talk for what do you what do you want? What don't you want versus I think a lot approach of people do it here's what I offer what's the difference between here's what I offer and then you doing that needs finding finding ways you can create value yeah it's called so when I was at microsoft microsoft invested a significant amount of money in meets they pry spent about forty thousand dollars a year in sales training force and the one thing that we learned that was really strong that I apply to photography it's called solution selling okay, so if I'm selling, um, you know, we always here and we laugh it's like selling ice to an eskimo, alright, you're selling them something they don't need, and we're trying to sell people something they don't need or want. You have an uphill battle ahead of you write so that those of the people who find the sales process extremely challenging because you're just trying to throw up on their on their in front of them, right, and be like, okay, that's it that's me, right? Shows am done right? So you don't want it. You don't want to do that. You want to start asking questions because the minute I start asking questions, I start coming across. Is that trusted advisor now? So tell me a little bit about your wedding day. What are you looking for? Uh, out of a photographer. I guarantee you no other photographer. Well, up until today, as now, everybody will start doing it right. It has asked them that question. They're not asking any questions, right? So all of a sudden I immediately stand out from the crowd, all right, wow, you know, I really thought about that well here's what we're looking for and now maybe whatever they say I start asking more questions and I start expanding on that and by the time it's all said and done they've actually sold themselves on working with me and let's let's role play a little bit what you looking for in a photographer? Well we're just looking for somebody to create some really cool images and you know, document our day awesome he's turnaround time a priority for you so what I just did there it's almost not even fair right? I just dropped a bomb in front of them right there like well now they start thinking about horror stories well, I had a friend who didn't get her wedding pictures for eight months right? I have a friend who still hasn't seen her wedding pictures so I just planted that seed I created a sense of urgency I'm actually starting to let off I'm about to offer them a solution to a problem they didn't even know they had and that's called latent pain it's pain that they don't even know they have did you go through this and corporate any training or stuff like that? Yeah and we still do so every tuesday and thursday I have sales training so all these terms I'm throwing out you are resonating with you absolutely did you ever think about applying it to photography when I do I do I ask questions I don't you know sit down and threw up on in front of them I I ask questions and for example had a client that they only ever had a photographer that did shoot and burn and so I asked them so how was that did you like that lot saying you know thinking oh they're not my client I ask them and she's like well I have a lot of cds I said so did you do anything with um where do that is brilliant you understand that right? So if you guys don't understand what she's doing she's scratching a scab on the client right she's peeling it back and this kind is going out how I got a solution for you we're a full service photography studio and we're going to deliver ah that complete experience for you that is awesome so for those of you out there if you don't understand the term leighton pain it's pain the client doesn't know they actually have that becomes very very powerful in identifying what that lane pain is so in simple terms in lay terms what keeps you up at night that's the question you want to get to what is keeping you up at night and that's what she was getting too right so what do you doing with all these cds you have right what's bothering you? Are you using this and that forces the client now to start step back and go I'm not doing anything with these things, so now they start listening to the direction you're trying to take him, so you just redirected the entire conversation that client walked in and maybe did want to ct now you've just got to start thinking differently about what they would even do with that cd, and it was easy, and I think in your case, because she's got five of them and she already knows she's done nothing with the five. So why go that route again? I don't wanna go down that same path again, so that is awesome. So that's, part of what we did in sales training is understanding what is late in pain and sell a solution. I'm offering clients a solution to their problem. If you're not offering them a solution to their problem, you become the sales person, not the trusted advisor and that's where we all need to be. So have you found over the course of your career, when you try to find out that laden pain is, is there a lot of consistency of their clients or be found with each client is totally different orders from consistent threads, there's, consistent threads, but each client has that pain in a different way, if you will write, but over time, you can start seeing a trend in, you know what the top five one is almost everybody's got some sort of harsh story about a friend or family member who still hasn't seen their wedding images right so that that could be a consistent theme even if they're not mentioned it I'm dropping that seed right? So I'm going to say to them, hey, you're going to see your image is in two weeks just so you know and they're always like two weeks my gosh that's it it's amazing s o I'm starting to drip that right so you've got people haven't seen their images they have a cd that they've done nothing with or they have a family member who's got a cd they've done nothing with they don't have a hot ah high quality album right? So I love when they see our albums and we're putting these high end albums in front of them and they start looking at that going I've never seen anything like that so that's right get a third thing I know is going to come up as late in pain that I can start using to my competitive advantage and that is the key then you're not really selling okay you're guiding and that's where you need to get with your clients, let them make the decisions on what's important to him planner that called and you know I've been working with her trying to get her referrals and um that kind of thing and she started calling me with oh I have a client that's perfect for you they want six hours no album no engagement how much so I didn't even get to the meeting I mean how would you respond to that yeah hey uh just so you know I got planners in st louis that do the same thing to us hey suzie let me send you over our current pricing in order for us to lock up our day this is the price point we're at we can definitely try and work with you within it but in order for me to lock up that saturday we don't just do time and cd we're a full service studio that's how that has to be responded to and you may lose her as a referral source and that's okay why because she's not she's not even a good referral source for you right so bad sources refer more bad sources because she should be the one educating the client going look if you want a real photographer to show up and give you a full service you need to get all this because I guarantee you if the bride went to the catering facility and said you know we really want to save some money and we just want lettuce for dinner okay and not with that planter called the facilities okay my bride wants to lock up your saturday and just wants to serve lettuce and some carrot sticks she would tell her bride look, that's not gonna happen. So she's actually doing you and the bride a disservice, right? Get away from that planner. Not a good planner. All right, we good? All right, let's, keep going. What is the number one challenge you face with clients? And I want to have a little bit of a speed round here out on the internet pound in what is the number one, uh, challenge you're facing with your clients today. So, danielle, number one client challenge you're facing with your clients today, getting over the hump of pricing pricing in what sense? Uh, redirecting them from asking that immediately. So we're also redirecting them from being price sensitive tomb or brand loyalty, showing them my products. I feel like every time we've we start showing them the products, they still want to go back. Tio okay, well, what's the collections and we want to get through all the products and then get them and we like what you're saying is that I don't like the way you're selling it that's interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're selling your showing them all your products first, then you start trying to walk them through that I would do it, I would walk them through the package, showing them product at the same time and in hand, yes, I'm very glad you said that that will trip you up consistently, so it sounds like you're trying to implement my system. You've just you've gone a little sideways on it, so what you want to do is when you're walking them through packages and you say okay, now are black label collection that comes with a twenty by twenty album, grab the album, put it in their hands, start flipping through it. It also comes with this sixteen by twenty four campus grab the campus, put it in their hands, point out the features to it. You know, if you feel this campus, you can feel that it's it's very you know, textural. This is great for a piece of artwork in your home also feel it it's very high quality, the wood, the rap this's gonna last you for a lifetime. It's an art piece, you've got to do that if you just keep putting stuff in their hand again consumer behavior, they just want to know how much it is, and they're actually starting to ignore you until they know how much it is. Yeah, I see them start to kind of haze over it's like I just see price in their head like a number one remember savior so what I'm telling you is about consumer behaviour they will glaze over they will stop listening to you and then we'll end up happening is when you finally show in price you may actually have to show them product again because now they're now they're listening and you're going like this because that's probably what's happening right so perfect so make that adjustment that is absolutely perfect uh jules number one challenge are we talking potential clients or clients that I've hired you tell me I'm trying to help you real time and use real world examples okay then I want more time for creatives on the wedding day oh that's a good one so getting mohr time for creative so just so everyone knows on the wedding day I get an hour and a half to two hours for our creative images why? Because that is in fact the witching hour that's where we're making our money I don't sell thirty by forty portrait of my bride up at the altar I don't sell thirty by forty portrait of her putting her makeup on in the morning I sell them of the artistic shots so I need time for that we like to go to multiple locations with that so one or two locations that is happening during that wanted to have two two hour period the way to get around that is you start having the conversation during the initial console to so if you wait until six months before the wedding two months before the wedding the timelines already in place have the conversation a year before the wedding they will move things around. Does that make sense? Are you doing that today? We just started implementing the timeline for the last workshop so from the last time you saw us he started implementing it is that working? We haven't shot any wedding since then. So what about have you booked weddings? Yes, and our is in that timeline have the timelines been set up yet or no, those air still in progress know they have we just haven't really talked about it much. Okay, what's can't mention the timeline I talked about wanting enough time on the wedding day, but as faras saying hour and a half I need to get better about that. Yes, so here's the thing two things right I think is part of that wedding boot camp we actually gave you the time various timelines to use you have the initial conversation, a very loose conversation during the initial consultation, then taylor almost immediately after they book is trying to schedule a call to put out a rough timeline together so I don't want you to think it's a one shot conversation we actually have three timeline discussions with them between the time they book and their wedding, their timelines changing the day before the wedding the day before it's actually still being adjusted makes me crazy but how many times have you shown him for a wedding? You're like I thought that was at one o'clock and they moved everything around so well last minute our planner did this, so what you want to do is there's three timeline discussions one during the initial console one right after that won the week of the wedding just to finalize everything make sure the whole team's in sync way job explosion online of people coming in some of the biggest challenge they face guys share a couple please love into sharing about right now you're talking about workflow creating systems and the great thing about this course this comes with a template for creating workflow and systems online, cherry says getting my client's overcome that I'm going to have to think about it of course everyone probably hear deals that I'm gonna have to think about it and a lot of people have mentioned in different so when you hear that sound like something you're great, you're awesome. I see it let me my mo I think about it for a little while yeah what'd you do so that is great, the indifference part is great now in order for that indifference to really have a major factor here, we'd have to ignore everything we've been doing for the last day and a half remember, by the time I get to this discussion, I'm talking to my client you're absolutely right when you're dealing with that indifference you're dealing with a client that's not your client, they don't care about photography, I've got clients who are like, how much time do you need? Three hours or pictures they're willing to give us much time as we need because one your website this is where it's all coming together if you're not showing artistic images on your website right where there are on this beautiful mountain setting and all these things are going on, why would they think they're going to give you more time? So your website plays into this now when that client comes into your studio when they said say, hey, this sounds great, I don't know that we have an hour and a half to do it, you know? I only have fifteen minutes for creatives we've actually had that happen to us. Somebody tells us we only have fifteen minutes for creatives we said we push back on them when we said guys, I totally understand it unfortunately, you're hiring us to create artwork for your home. So all these images you see behind me, all the images you've seen on my website, those air created during that hour and a half to two hours if you only give me fifteen minutes I can't do that so if you're okay not getting those images from your day I'm ok I just want to make sure we're in sync so what I immediately did was I stopped arguing with them, right? Well, no, I have to have that kind of time I'm an artist, right? No, they don't care, they're indifferent, I'm pushing back on them and saying, hey, guys, if you don't care, I don't care right immediately attitudes change because they're not willing to pay me that much money and then go we don't have any of those images so there's a little bit of education that has to happen and a little bit of pushback don't be afraid to push back on your clients you do most of the creatives after the ceremony or do you have? Is it like half and half its first look and after that depends on if there's a first look if there's a first look, of course we're doing everything before the ceremony those are my favorite I love doing it that way if there is not a first look it's happening after the ceremony I was second question too that most of mine are first looks right now um it makes me panic a little bit taking them away for an hour and a half after the ceremony and their guests are waiting at the reception have you had any problems with that? No because at the end of the day their throat they're throwing the party it's their party ah and they're hiring you for great images so once again the only way I know how to teach you is through real world examples we had a three day indian wedding last year this if you've ever photographed in indian wedding nothing about it is ever on time it's just part of the culture they're not allowed to be on time you actually get in trouble I think if you're on time so not even close on time we were supposed to start her creatives at five o'clock dinner was starting at seven thirty well seven oh five we still have not left to go do creatives she comes down all her guests are in there I'm talking for hundred guests come in I pull it to the side I say look I know the whole day's been running late I just want to let you know so that we're in sync right I don't let the day go by and then come back to her I wanna let you know so that we're in saying we didn't go off and do your creatives and she stopped and she's like she realized it you know when she realized there was nothing I could do about it and uh she looked to her husband and she said what do you want to dio and he goes this man is here we brought him here because we want artwork for our home the guest can wait and so that's my client we went off for an hour and a half while their guests out in and had drinks and appetizers and did it that way and they went off with me so that we can go do our thing now it is not gonna happen with every wedding off course not but I just want to make you understand that when you're finding and dealing with the right clients they will figure out a way to make it work with you and you gotta put it back on them if you don't want this and you're okay not getting it I'm okay I just never want a client to pay me that much money and then they're missing those big artistic architectural shots which is why they hired me so sometimes you got to remind him that this is your wedding as far as running the timeline right? So don't be afraid to assert some control so that person out there who's like I'm not sure I gotta think about it hopefully I've converted them uh to you at least consider it good chat rooms are still on fire right now sell but quite a few people actually an overwhelming response from people say all their clients want all the images on a cd cd, cd cd and also tarantella photography is says asking why they're friends full disk for one hundred and fifty dollars and now they're paying double for just a few prints I don't know how to make them understand and no longer building a portfolio all right, so it sounds like she has worked done some earlier events for less expensive price yes, you have to become confident you cannot so let's say you start that model we're talking about where I'm like hey do the first two, five hundred bucks and start raising your prices from there you are going to get some bad referrals out of that quite possibly thinking you're still going to photograph for five hundred bucks you do in fact have to explain to those clients guys that's when I was just starting out, our business has grown now that's why I'm telling you you're not going to go from charging five hundred dollars two three thousand dollars overnight it can't happen that way. Can it happen in a year and a half? Two years? Of course we've gotta lay the foundation to start getting you to take those steps so that you can look back on those clients and say yes, I understand that susie got me for five hundred dollars keep in mind she didn't get an album, she didn't get this you don't get that now we've expanded our business and we're offering a more high end full complete experience for your for your wedding right and then they might come back to you and even if we could keep role playing they might come back and go well I just want what she had I totally understand that that's what you're looking for unfortunately it's not something we even offer anymore I'm so sorry if I can you know if I could get you to consider our new packages I'd love to work with you unfortunately I just can't give up a saturday for that price point if they don't understand that again not your client you've got to be okay walking away from some of that stuff so hopefully that makes sense just one thing that you said laurie was I can't get away from clients wanting the digital images I don't want you to believe my clients don't want their digital images either they want them and they get them in our higher and packages right so the digital negatives will never be in my base package I can't do it so for a wedding there in my middle and high in packages so I don't think we'll ever get away from that but I just want to understand that when you finally do give it away you've got to be getting paid what you need from that event I will never show up to an event for four hours and hand over cd it has to be part of one of our packages one more question before we keep it moving of course, when you talk about the interviewing process a little while, but now you're talking about overcoming challenges when you were, you know, weddings or events, is there typically one decision making you identify that you're going to go to say, hey, we didn't get the creative photos or e going between, say, the wife and and husband orders you're one person, maybe even the mom or dad. You're dealing with it's, usually my bride it's, usually the broad I have to deal with because she's, the one who loves the artwork s o I wouldn't like kind of wimp out and go talk to the groom who doesn't care about pictures, so he lets me off the hook because then I'm in trouble, right? Then I got to go back to my bride after the wedding, back where I told your husband and he's not going to take the heat for me, right? He's gonna throw me under the bus, so I'm more than likely going to take my bride, pull it to the side and say something to her, not even the parents. Even if the parents are the ones paying me ultimately, I'm going to go to the bride because she's the one I need to be happy.