Marketing on a Budget
So marketing and a budget something's air free just because you're on a budget doesn't mean everything's going to be free it's just where we trying to reduce costs as much as possible some things are going to cost money there's no way around it sweat equity has to be a major component, so we cannot be afraid of working hard if you want to run a successful business I don't know anybody who runs a successful business and doesn't work hard, right? If you want to be lazy, you are not going to run a successful business it's hard work you don't get to where we are in our career if that's what you're aspiring to think it's just gonna happen overnight or someone's gonna hand it to you it's a lot of hard work some of that hard work is in fact sweat equity that's your time, your labor that's the one thing you have plenty of when you're starting out this time because I don't have all those photo shoots and understand you gotta balance it with your job you get a balance it with family, but ultimat...
ely time is where you can invest to get some of this stuff going it's definitely your friend here and it might be the only asset you have, right? If you're looking for assets, cash is obviously some asset and you're trying not to spend that that's fine what asset are you putting up right it's not going to be free so time is definitely your most valuable resource here, right? So here's some ideas that I think all of you are fully capable of implementing immediately and more importantly they work they work because I've done him and so when I was starting out, these are the things I have done to get my name out there to get business coming in and while some of them are actually marketing efforts, the truth is you'll you'll make a profit on them right? So not only you're going to get your name out there, but you're going to make money on them so here's some focus areas we came up with a toy store or kids clothing store, right? So if you're in the children photography that's an area you could go after him to give you some ideas their doctor's office baby general plastic surgeon okay, nothing wrong with plastic surgeons, right? In fact, that's a great client to go after think about it who goes there? Pete people with money go there people who care about how they look go there guess who I want is my client's people who have money and people who care about the way they look so that is a natural connection there, so we'll talk more about that how about bridal dress shots guess who they sell dresses to brides. That's your client. So I want to go after that bridal dress up. What about the senior dress shop prom? All these kids, when they're getting ready, ok, to go to prom, they've got to go buy a dress. And so that's, another place to go and find clients and we're gonna drill into each one of these. What about the reception hall? The reception hall is a great place to go. They have weddings every weekend. Let's make some connections there. And then of course, models, we're gonna need models for some of this. Some of them might be, you know, just people who you friends, family, but don't be afraid to start looking for models and offering them t f p which is time for proofs. Okay, so that's that's kind of the high level let's drill writing to the toy store here's what I want you to do, find a local toy store or clothing company. So everything we're going to talk about right here is applicability, both a toy store or clothing or toddler clothing storm. They both have the same challenges. In fact, you go after both if you're in the children's photography, not a chain. You're not going to get a whole lot of traction with chain stores, right? There's too many layers of management to many people that have to try and make decisions you want to be dealing right with the owner and power you want to be a power that's the person making the decisions offer to photograph their products with models so you go in there and you have that conversation you say hey guys, I'm a local photographer and I'll give you some of the conversation I'm a local photographer looking to ah build my portfolio and get a little bit more traction and marketing I'd love to photograph some kids playing with your toys I'd love to photograph some kids wearing your clothes so that we can advertise him okay, so here's, what we're going to give you there's got to be a give get everything we do there has to be a give get if you cannot define the give get, you're not gonna get anywhere and what does that mean? They give get here's what I'm giving you here's what I want to get back in return it's that simple okay? And you've got to keep it simple this is sales sales training, right kicking in we're going to provide the models so we're gonna bring the kids to the party, we're going to handle all that we're going to coordinate the shoot you have nothing that you don't have to worry about any of that I'm gonna handle all the expenses around. Courtney shoot, I'm gonna provide the models. I'm gonna provide imagery to you both digital and prince. I want to decorate your walls. I want prints everywhere in your store. How many handle all production costs. So you cannot look at this. Your client in this particular situation is not the toy store there's. No budget for you. In fact, you're cold calling on them. You're walking in? They weren't looking for a photographer. This is not a commercial job. We're going to make money and I'll show you where you're gonna make money in a second. But it's not there. That is marketing and advertising for you. Here's what? I need to get for this to be worth my while. I need your product to use for the photo shoot. So if your clothing store I want children's clothing. If your toy store I want all the toys okay to use, I'm obviously gonna give them back, right? I'm not going to ride in a big wheel at my house. I don't have kids, so I got to give those toys back. I want window or wall display space with my logo on it, and then, of course, I want a point of sale counter display so I want to be able to at the cash register put a small flier call the action name collection something where I can get my name out and get specials out maybe it's a flier in every bag now I don't know what you're thinking at home or thinking here I'm gonna tell you this works because I've done it when I was starting out I did this exact program, so I'm sharing with you programs that do in fact work here's the rest of what you have to do casting call I'm looking for models two to five years old now here's the thing remember everything we talked about on day one on how to promote on howto go to craigslist on how to go to facebook, how to find friends and family looking for people howto word all that stuff every time you see me saying casting, call that's how you're doing it so again, we've been building for two days now for this moment you couldn't have done this if you didn't understand what needed to be done to get here. You're looking for seven to fifteen models we started figure out how this is gonna work now seven to fifteen to two five year olds you don't think you're going to make money on the shop, you'll make a lot of money on the shop scheduled it over a two day window do not make yourself crazy this is not meant to be an eighth among eight month project two days, thirty minute sessions yes that means you're going to be doing eight or ten shoots a day okay get used to it buckle up. We're here to make money this is what we're doing and this will in fact work so now in that two day window we're gonna hopefully see fifteen sessions I hope you get twenty sessions okay when we did it I want to say we had in the seventeen or eighteen session range in a two day window come through our studio and if they can't make it on the two days your shooting bye bye. This is a job for a commercial shoot local photographer looking for models two to five years old were photographing for a local toy store we have limited availability looking for fun energetic and kids that listen something to that effect here the days were shooting if people want to be part of it they will in fact make time every parent in the world thinks they're little johnny is a superstar. Okay, well, here's johnny's little chance to be a superstar you got two days to figure it out, okay? We're going to give you a free eleven by fourteen print we're gonna bring them in for a preview session in a thirty minute session you should be a shooting machine tighthead shot's wide shots right plus johnny, you should have five to ten different toys, right? I don't know what they're calling it a toy you bounce on the ball you go around riding a big wheel you're in the red car right? You're pulling the wagon you got all these toys you got the rocking horse all these things johnny is playing on every single toy in a cool environment outdoors or in a studio create diversity okay? He may or may not make it to the wall of fame at the toy store but they're only getting one eleven by fourteen print do you think mom who's got little johnny? There doesn't want more than just one eleven by fourteen print she wants to brag to the world what a superstar her son is her daughter is and that's cool that's awesome so we need to bring them in for that previous session to show them all those amazing images we need bundled packages for discounts. You should be running a three to five hundred dollars average easily easily running a three to five hundred dollar average here I don't care where you are in your career if you bring them in and you do what I'm telling you to do, you will run that average we ran an eight hundred dollar average all right? This is easy money in that in that two day window we've made somewhere in the range of ten to fourteen thousand dollars based on shoots out of a two day window you two will have the same results of three hundred dollars is not difficult for people to spend on those portrait. Does anybody disagree with me here? Do I have lightbulbs going off? Lightbulbs going off if we just blew our minds. This works, guys, this is not something I just dreamed up pulled out of thin air. We did this. We did it, and we had amazing success. So guess what's gonna happen next. Now I'm going to take. Not only did I make money for this marketing effort, I just made money. Now I'm going to go back to the children's store, and I'm going to put up twenty by thirty prints in all the windows with my logo on him. And then I'm gonna have at the point of sale, I'm gonna have a little nine by six flyer that I create a two sided flier. I get him from a company called four over the number four o v e r dot com. Okay, they make amazing flyers. Great price point. You don't have to order a thousand fliers you can order like twenty five fly fifty flyers order your fliers called toe action book in the month of may get twenty five percent off your session fee fifty percent off your session fee whatever special you want to come up with but now everybody who's coming into that store is not only looking all throughout the store on the walls in the windows at all these amazing prince they're now getting a flyer to go oh my god that's so cute looking little johnny and you don't think let me ask you another question little johnny's up on the wall right along with by the way fifteen other kids because that's the goal you want at least one frame of the boys and the girls all on the wall playing with the toys for the toy store you don't think that when mom knows little johnny's up the toy store and a monster twenty by thirty or larger print she's gonna bring her whole family down to the toy store to see it the toy store is gonna love you that clothing store is gonna love you because you're driving traffic into their store now and now all their friends or family or seeing that you're going to start driving leads to you're not only did you make money on this marketing effort you're going to start generating leads you never thought possible your cost on this is your time there's no other cost here it's your time and we're not even talking about a break even proposition we're talking about a profitable proposition you guys with me? Yes so with the packages do you bring that possibility that they can buy prince when you're booking the model or when do you bring that up? Yeah, if they ask there's no reason ask right? Because that's not in theory what we're doing but if they ask, will I be able to buy pictures afterwards? Absolutely after the photo shoot will see we get you know, we don't really don't know what we're going to get from johnny depends on, you know, he's a child, we'll see what we get out of him, but after that we'll bring you back into the studio and we'll show you everything we got and if you want additional portrait, of course you'll be able to select now they have to come in to see their pictures or else there's no way for them to pick their eleven by fourteen so they have to come in to get their eleven by fourteen and what's gonna happen. Mom is going to look at fifty, sixty one hundred frames of various pictures of little johnny playing on the toys in the wagon on the rocking horse and you're telling me she's only gonna want one it's not gonna happen, guys it's not even possible if you have kids out there, you know exactly what I'm talking about is not possible that if I showed you one hundred frames of pictures of your kids you would select one you'd be a mess trying to figure out which ones to get well by the way I've got a package for you that's significantly discounts all that for you so it will happen okay bridal dress shop I need you to find a dress shop in your area there should not be one there should be dozens of dress shops in your area not a chain don't go to david's bridal you're not gonna get any traction there you're looking for the sole proprietor who owns a dress shop who is begging dying pleading to get marketing imagery with her dresses because she can't afford a two or three thousand dollars photoshoot of her dresses if I went on a commercial photo shoot for a bridal shop and they wanted me for the day working with models and doing all this stop it would be a three to ten thousand dollar proposition depending on what we were doing with them it definitely wouldn't be free so now here I am I'm coming to you I'm saying hey I know you need these images I'm gonna give him to you for free but here's what I need in return okay so I'm gonna photograph their dresses with models I'm gonna own the models I'm gonna bring this I'm gonna own all production costs I need I'm gonna provide models I'm gonna coordinate the chute I'm gonna provide imagery both digitally and prince, of course my logo's on everything right? I've got to get a photo credit if she starts using that in magazines and things like that, they're not just getting my images and using them everywhere. I have to get a photo credit that's part of his give get okay, uh, production to use use for the shoot. Well, I'm sorry. Let me back up. I got to get I'm gonna give him large prints and then handle all prussian courts here's what I need in return product for the shoot so I've gotta get dresses if you don't give me addresses how'm I gonna photographing it anybody and he gets what I'm doing is well, if I'm just starting out, I'm building my portfolio I'm getting access to all these amazing dresses that I I can't afford to get so now if I want to put put have these high end weddings that I'm photographing, I don't want to show them in one hundred dollar david's bridal dress, right? I want to show them in beautiful gowns this is a great way to get access to that where you would normally never get access to it now does that mean every the first dress shop you go to is going to be like, oh, this is wonderful, yes, let's do this no you might have to go knock on four five doors before one says yes that's okay find the one that says yes that's your partner now I want window in wall display space with my logo so we do this with a dress shop currently in st louis every time we photograph one of their dresses for one of my models or portfolio shoot I take I blow it up to a twenty by thirty and I give them a free print mounted on styrene and they have it in their space. So now every single bride that walks in is seeing my imagery okay? And they're already doing that that's all brand recognition because why my low goes there and it's just hammering them over the head they're going every place I go I see the south's in kattegat remember what I told you when we started off if they don't know who you are that is the worst thing that could happen to your brand there's no way you could be in st louis getting married and not have heard of us or studio uh, point of sale I want a counter display I wanna put a small fire there getting married we need a wedding photographer okay, check us out whatever you want to do here is a special book you know you're twenty thirteen wedding get ten percent off any package right so come up with something creative or maybe just in from a informational brochure right so you're not running any specials you're not giving anything off you're just showing them point blank here's what we're gonna you know here's what we're all about maybe it's a flyer maybe it's a multi page pamphlet that you're putting together four over has a ton of options that you can look at all our cost effective so imagine over time if you're photographing of these dress up and you photographed ten fifteen twenty brides or dresses okay you're gonna get to that point that's how we are with his dress shop I don't want to just put a single image on a fire anymore I want to put a page booklet together right showcasing all their dresses maybe put some copy and they're right some words in there and allow people to really get a whole different experience when they pick up that flier and you get those fliers like seventy five cents a pop so go buy one hundred of them put him there all brand recognition cost near nothing for you to produce this this is an easy way if you're a wedding photographer tio start getting things done so we got to run a casting call again family and friends go after family friends they got to know people who will get in a wedding dress for you think about this you might have couples who are engaged wanna model for you that is the best thing that could possibly happen for you because now you just produce some images in their wedding dress in tuxedo and you're giving them an opportunity to figure out what it's like to work with you and if they're working with you and now you realize it how about offering them this kind of guys that had such an amazing time working with you? I don't know if you have a wedding photographer yet but if you don't I can I would like to discount one of my packages s so that we can work together talk about pre qualified okay you've already had the experience they already know what you're all about and now you have this air of being a big time for talk for because you're doing this commercial shoot for a judge dress shop right? Use that to your advantage uh two to three models you should be looking for okay look to model mayhem offer up time for proofs or time for proofs in a combination of one hundred dollars or two hundred dollars for a few hours of their time now you're not going to get a high end model for one hundred dollars or two hundred dollars but if you're just starting out hundred bucks and doing time for proofs you're gonna get some entry level models and that's okay you know why? Because it's going to force you to practice posing when you get a high end model, when we're doing workshops and stuff, sometimes I got to tell my models to dial it down, dial the model down because they know their body, they practice in the mirror and they don't you don't have to do anything. I could literally just sit here with the calmer if I'm working with a model and she's a right don't always stop my world, dial it down, dial it down, let the class instruct you, because I don't want you guys getting all these pictures, and it looks like your superstars imposing and you're not. I'd rather you work on posing and getting teaching them your weaknesses. You all told me, you struggle with posing, so sometimes when you're working with models, then the dial it down a little bit and not look so much like a model. Ah, connect with makeup artist your makeup artist is probably one of the most important investments you could make on a shoot like this. I cannot stress that enough. You don't want people showing up with, like green fingernails on their photo shoot ride weird make up and and none of us ever want to tell somebody. Ah, is that how you were in your makeup, right? We don't want everybody's got their own style, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what that bridal salon is going to want to put up on their walls so we want to go very neutral with makeup when we're working on shoots like this uh and trade don't be afraid to try and trade with the makeup artist okay? So I've got a makeup artist that I've been working with their sisters I love them to death they have become friends of our family I've been working with them for five years now and I met them via craigslist and so I ran an ad looking for a makeup artist on craigslist the first one we connected with flaked out on us right for some reason makeup artist are notorious for flaking out on us it's just nature of the beast I guess these two sisters were there there on time they're normal they're not weirdoes on they just do their thing my brides love them my engagement couples love them everywhere we go that's what we use that's what we recommend and so it becomes very, very important to make that connection with a good good makeup artist uh how about connecting with florist, right? We're doing a bridal shoot I don't want to just there in her dress I need a florist I need somebody to bring the flowers you don't think the flores wants to trade a bouquet for some free pictures, he'll be your bed here she will be your best friend it's hard enough. The tartars photographers are notorious for not handing over their images absolutely notorious for not doing it right. We're just too busy we could barely get images to our climb, let alone getting them to the vendors who were part of it. So you've got to add this to your workflow. It's very, very important. So but now I'm going in the foursome. Okay? We're doing this photoshoot for betty's bridal gown company I would love for you to just, you know, can we get a bouquet or two on and add that to the to the mix? Would that be okay? You're gonna find the floors that is is eager to be part of this. How about connecting with all the accessories? Okay, hat's chokers, veils, shoes. All these people are small businesses dying for pictures of their product dying for pictures. Okay, at a stand in, see if she's got a boyfriend or a groom, they'd be willing to stand in. Can you get access to a tuxedo trade for a tuxedo company. Okay, so this is all time intensive things that work again. I'm gonna keep saying it. They work because we've done it. So this is your way with zero budget to get going and start getting your name out there and all all these bridal salons and making all these absolute connections for you and the connections with the makeup artist, the floors, all the accessories, the limo companies all of this stuff bodes well for you because now everybody's heard of who you are your name starts getting out there and it's costing you hear nothing and oh, guess what, you're having fun just building your portfolio you with me have a quick question from our line going as relates to bridal shop this being from brad milton photo every local brad oh shops website I've lika already has professional photos of dress is provided by the dress manufacturers wash they need my photos whether it's further website or I guess internally at their brick and mortar location yeah what's some of that what some of these bright that's a great question great point they're going to get those marketing shots from them but they're all the same right there the bride standing on a great background or a white background to be quite honest, no disrespect to those photographers I flip through those bridal magazines they're some of the worst pictures I've ever seen off brides in dresses some of them a blurry and I'm looking at an actual magazine I cannot believe my eyes and I'm looking up blurry pictures that were taken in a studio and so sometimes that doesn't necessarily match the brand of the bridal boutique right? They want mohr boutique e stylized shoots that's the value you're bringing to the table so I love your question or your point we've got to be able to handle that, right? Because when that bridal salon comes back to and goes, I already get pictures from here. Why should I invest in this? We're going to give you more of a boutique look and feel and by the way, you don't think they want to work with you. Who do you think they book first the dress or you know you're wrong? It's the photographer it's a photographer they may look at the dress they mean no address they want they haven't purchased yet they broke their photographer reception, catering or reception I'm sorry church. Those are the top three and that's not always the same order they happening so the dress companies want to be aligned with you so that they can put their marketing materials in your bridal packet, right? We hand our bride's a kid and say here's, our preferred vendors, we had that to him and we put one dress manufacturing there, one makeup artist in there and they want to be in that packet. So good point. We have one more question. This is a basic one that thinks so important to answer how do you handle model releases when you're doing events like this this is from kelly do you have your model signed release forms? We absolutely do great question kelly you have to have a model release form in order for you to be using these images not only in your marketing material but also for your vendors if you're going to be giving them access to uh this so you've gotta have that model release without a doubt and we do so everyone who comes through they're signing that model release same about a copyright released for the stores do you need to have that in order copyright released like a copyright of your images? Uh, paula masses wondering, you know when you deal with the store and you hand them the images from this shoot copyright release that's a good point you shouldn't set uh so no, you're not releasing copyright to the store you still make ten copyright of your image is a doll times now you could put together if you want to get real formal with it a shared copyright with the store outlining how those images can in fact be used now that being said, it depends on how formal you want to get with it, so a lot of the way business is done is through handshake and relationships, so if you're already doing business with a store that you feel is going to screw you on this I would not be doing business with that store because they're gonna want future imagery from you so you could get very formal and have a shared copyright release signed so that it's clear what you expect, which is the use of your logo or your name right? You want you want to say all images provided by salvador cincotti photography or dub dub dub southend conta dot com you want to be clear on that for short, what I love about this man is just how you talk yesterday about taking responsibility and ownership in what you're advising people to do essentially is create your own luck no don't wait for people to come to you go out, make things come to you, right? Yeah and and that's a great point, right? We're bringing it all together so all the things we were lining up yesterday are kind of, you know, dovetailing into this, which is now I'm actually showing you how to go out there and do this to get that business. Uh, in fact, I can't believe anybody who's watching or getting this course. If you start watching the segment and you're not already taking notes on what your next steps are, yu is here is teed up for you, all you got to do is swing and go after it and you're going to hit a home run on this this will not fail. I promise you, um, let's add to this. What about jewelry manufacturers, guys? Local jewellers. You think they get professional pictures done? We work with a jeweler in st louis. This guy is bringing he brought a three hundred thousand dollars choker to a photo shoot for us to use the jewelry. I did not like my wife seeing the jewelry that he was showing, right? He's, I call me, I'll cut you a deal. I'm like, I don't know what kind of deal you cut me off three hundred thousand dollars, but it's not one I can afford, but this is the kind of relationship we have, right? We're going, hey, we're on this photo shoot. Will you provide jewelry? And in return, we'll provide your images. So when we're doing this, I'm not just providing this wide shot of a bride wearing his necklace. I'm taking that wide shot of a bride wearing his necklace or or the rings or the engagement rings you don't want models showing up and they've got the tiniest of engagement rings and you're trying to sell this high end, right? Ten thousand dollars dress that's not gonna work, so you need jewelry that matches the occasion, so now he shows up with all this, I lay all his jewelry out and I isolate east each piece of jewelry for him, just like I would on the wedding day. So that's what I'm giving to him that's the give get guys, this is easy, easy stuff if you are hungry and go after it. Um here's the language man for the trade I can't make this any easier for you to be successful unless you fly me out to your studio when I start doing this on your behalf, here is the language hi, my name is south and katana local area photographer, and I'm currently working with julie's bridal shop on a photo shoot for their spring dress line. If you're getting this course, if you purchase is course, this is therefore you copy and pasted verbatim. I am okay with that. Um, this is a portfolio job for me, and I am looking to partner with you on this job in exchange for images for your portfolio, your website, etcetera. So I'm laying it out right then and there. This is a portfolio job translation I'm not getting paid for this, so I'm letting them know what I'm doing and what I'm looking for out of them. If you have capacity, I'm being respectful of their time, right, I'm not saying, hey, give me a bunch of stuff for free. If you have capacity and are willing to work with me on pricing options, please check out my website, letting them know right that I'm the real deal. So now we're back to how important your website is, um, or give me a call at five, five, five one two one two that is not my cell phone number do not call it, but this is your trade language and notice what I'm saying and what I'm not saying, I don't know if you guys understand the importance off the language when you're communicating to people, so I'm being very clear that this is a portfolio job. I'm being very clear, respectful of their time, I'm saying if they have capacity and are willing to work with me, so I'm being respectful of them and I'm being clear on what I'm looking for. This is the language you should be using when you're pushing messaging out to those people. So hopefully this is all making sense. What about a senior dress shop on the internet? Start submitting questions? I'm going right after I do this senior dress up, I'll pause for you. I know I've been flying through this stuff on I want to make sure you see the value in all that scene for you guys here. Okay, I want you to find a dress shop, not a bridal dress shop, a senior prom gown. Tuxedo. Reynold there's got to be stuffed in your local area. All these high school kids go someplace to get those dresses offer to photograph their dresses with high school models. The give I'm gonna provide the models, coordinate the chute. I'm gonna provide the imagery both digital and prince. I'm gonna handle all production costs, so we're not going to do something like this, not for any line of business, and then and then put out there. Okay, and expect them to pay for prince that's. Ridiculous. Okay, so we've got to make it easy for them to do business with us. Here's what I want to return, I need the product to use for the shoot. You've got to give me access to your dresses. That's what we're showcasing that's! What you're bringing to the table? Uh, I want you to give me window and wall display space with my logo in your facility and of course, I want a point of sale counter display so I can run senior specials. My book in the month of may get fifty percent off book in the month of june get forty percent off whatever my specials are, I'm going to run that run that special there here we go again. We're going to run a casting call looking for class of twenty, fourteen and twenty fifteen. Don't be specific, they don't need to be an actual senior. Nobody's gonna notice the difference now you understand everything I've been teaching you so far. Not only am I showing you how to make money, I'm showing you how to build your portfolio from scratch. So this is ahh two headed dragon here. This is not just about making money, it's not just about it's probably three headed. I'm getting your name out there. We're making connections with vendors, you're building your portfolio and I'm giving you an opportunity to make additional money on those sales were looking for ten models, how we're looking for twenty models, man, the more you shoot, the more opportunity you're going to get to make money schedule over a two day window, sixty minute sessions, okay, that you'll have to spend a little bit more time working with these kids and it is going to be intense. Suck it up, let's, go make some money. Okay, offer a free eleven by fourteen print. Bring them in for a preview session. They've got to come in to see their pictures that's where the sale's gonna happen they've got to see him they've got to be edited you can't wait two months for them to see the pictures they got to come in quick I'm talking like a week or two weeks after the shoot we gotta pull that timeline in um and again we've got a bundle the packages we've gotta offer them discounts so we're gonna maybe we were gonna get a free eleven fourteen print but there's no way! I've just been working with your daughter for an hour and I can only sell you one print there's no way we're looking for a four to six hundred dollar average here and the numbers we're seeing in parentheses that's the price point of your packages so I want to see you created three ninety nine package on the low end for ninety nine and the middle package seven ninety nine on the top in what's in those packages that subject for debate that's a three day course in and of itself. So you've got to take some of the principles I've taught you already, but that's the price point of those packages and on the previous slide I had that too I'm sorry and explain it you think gotta connect with a makeup artist for trade already gave you the language for that we gotta promote and hype this up, man, you're senior daughter, senior model for the day this is a fashion shoot. Maybe we build a voting contest on our facebook site. Vote for who gets the main window in the store, right? Get everybody excited about this in your community. Vote for who's going to get the banner on your web page on your facebook page, but mostly maybe there's a big space in the dress shop where you can put, ah, thirty by forty, forty by sixty print up on that wall and turn that senior okay, that junior, hopefully, because if it's a junior, they're going to come to you for full on senior pictures, make that junior a superstar that's your job here, okay? This is super super easy. Reasonable? You should be seeing let's say you're seeing a five hundred dollars average in two days. You're looking at five thousand our sale if you do ten kids that you're actually making money, building your portfolio, experimenting, doing whatever the hell you want with lighting and practicing, you're making connections with the dress shop and I just gave you a brand new marketing avenue that dress shop your images all over there, so now every team that goes in there. Seeing your work up on the wall and I know you don't think it stops there, right? We're not going to do it for them for the year twenty thirteen and then next year leave old pictures up. Guess what happens next year? We do it again. Now you become the premier fashion studio for these local dress shops. This is easily accessible to all of you somebody's gonna have to tell me if you believe for one minute, you can't do this within your business so online, how we doing there? No excuses, you are literally just handing them the business plan this's getting understand marketing plan there's the so cool! But the chat rooms are off the hook right now, there's like pages and pages of questions are off screen moderators. I just want to give you guys a big thank you and shout out because you were working really hard at giving us this information right now, like working so hard and just like hard to get a person mentions about this. But what if you live in an area that is either mostly chains? There were another photographer has already established a relationship, these just excuses, they're just excuses, man, I'm in those areas I'm dealing with life touch in my area, I'm dealing with all sorts of chains in my area, so people don't want to deal with that they want superior service they want that personal relationship and the chains aren't doing this life touch is not doing this for the local bridal salons ok, so there are boutique shops whether it's a toy store, a bridal shop or senior gown locations there there you've got to find them and if they're outside your area you've gotta travel thirty miles traveled getting a freaking car and drive go do it man make it happen so that your business is successful no excuses, no excuses that's the model for the day guest thirty ninety four says bridal shops, toy children stores and doctor offices have photographers contacting them every day I've contacted many and have been told they already work with a photographer what would you suggest when in this case I love it and I'm so glad that came up so what would I suggest one I don't want you to believe for a minute that doesn't happen to me I'm gonna hit that wall without a doubt we're going to run into the no they're going to say no what do you say next? God, let me ask you quite so if this came up let's say I was talking with bridal song and they said to me we're already working with the photographer thanks for calling anyway hey, no problem I would go down to that store okay, so I got that phone call and I got that that door slammed in my face. I would not take no for an answer. I would now go down to that store, and when I go down there and say, hey, is suzie and suzy? Um, south mankato we spoke on the phone, I just want to introduce myself to you face to face. I know you said you're already working with photographer, but it got me thinking, just if there's ever anything that he's not doing for you or she's not doing for you, they're out of town and you got something special that comes up. Let me know when I can make myself available on last minute notice. Bam! I just peed myself up. I didn't take no for an answer teed it up and now I'm in the back of her head the next time she needs me and you might be thinking, I'm making this up and it doesn't work, I did it. I did it with a reception hall in st louis I said, hey, guys, I know you're already working with three other photographers. I said, but if you ever have a special event that comes up and they can't make it, let me know and I'll come out here, they called me saturday okay, at two pm in the afternoon, this was like two months later saturday at two in the afternoon and they said we just finished setting up our room. We can't get a hold of any of our own the photographers would you mind coming down and taking a shot of the room so that we can use it in our marketing material? We have been on their preferred vendor list ever since never take no for an answer, kick down doors, make it happened also, this is a great question think a lot of people are thinking about this from judy wu is the money you pay to provide prints for the shops out of your own pocket. So this investing to business? Yes, you're paying out of pocket, but in reality, are you really paying out of pocket? Because you should be making money off some of these shoots, but the short answer is yes that's coming out of your pocket let's, let's look at it this way a typical twenty by thirty print mounted on styrene, okay? And maybe you don't mountain uncertain cyrene, maybe just go with a paper print typical twenty by thirty print I'm guessing I don't have a price in front me let's, say, it's twenty five bucks let's say I do ten for the store that would be two hundred fifty dollars right to get thes up there let's call it five hundred bucks. Maybe my pricings really off five hundred bucks? Are you telling me you are not willing to invest five hundred dollars tohave premium dedicated wall space in a store that traffics your clients all day long? I would pay five hundred dollars for that. Great! If you guys have any questions in the audience feel great free to grab the microphone. What I like about this sound tell me if I'm if I'm correct is that you're talking about creating value for that. That gallery for that bridal shop doesn't matter jewelry shop, etcetera in many ways, it's kind of you talked about before you're interviewing them, so they do say no, well, what are your needs? How can I create value for us as much as it is about you it's about them as well? That's right? I'm building that relationship, that partnership, that value added partner, that that other photographer or business partner isn't really providing right. And so just because you get told no, you can't just accept no for an answer what's wrong with you, man no one's gonna hand this to you, you've got to go out and get it, improve your hungry and that's what people want to see, they respond to that and what's your opinion on relationship building of course, a lot of people they want to put her hand out. They want something right away. So you start in two thousand seven, two thousand six hundred twenty thirteen. He talked about the value of taking a long term approach. The relationship building. Yeah, no, that's great. I like the way you're asking that. This is we're here for the long haul. I didn't become a photographer so that I could do it for a year for six months. I want to be this is what I want to do until I die. I love it. I'm passionate about it. So that being the case change your mindset when you walk into these and you're dealing with people and you walk into these venues, change your mindset to instead of what you're looking for from them. Tell them what you can do for them. Okay, so stop asking start giving and the minute you start doing that it's a mind shift because you know what happens the reception halls, the bridal gown cos the florists photographers are hammering them, saying, hey, let me put my stuff in your shop. Oh, so you want me to do something for you, right? So if you're the florist, you want me to do this for you, what are you doing for me? Change your entire mindset go in and tell them here's what I can do for you and here's what I'm hoping I can get in return you change it and become a little bit more humble I'm not saying not aggressive just a little bit more humble and you will get to where you're looking to bay rachel I'm going back to the trade a letter that you send out there was one phrase there um about pricing options what did you mean by that? What I'm saying is I've got no budget, so pricing options means can you give me some options for pricing that cause you may have to pay for it? You know, if I could get access to a high end makeup artist on I'm paying half price or she's going to say hey it's a hundred bucks that might be better because at least I know I'm dealing with somebody who's ah high end and quality and that's going to help me again build a relationship so if I can pay one hundred box and make that connection where normally I wouldn't be able to I might be working with it so I'm kind of thine it all up in this letter very student you by the way uh where I'm saying, hey, I'm establishing him a local area photographer I'm establishing the shoot I'm working with currently I'm working on a photo shoot I'm also establishing this a portfolio job hence I'm not making any money on it everybody in the creative injury understands what a portfolio job is we've all done them even flores so I'm kind of trying to appeal to their sense there and that's what that's what I'm going for so does that make more sense awesome everybody else good questions um so for like the ninety percent of us out there who don't have a traditional studio in like a sales room how do you I mean this is kind of on topic but off topic but how would you quote unquote bring them in for a previous yeah preview yeah and so if you do on first of all let's step back if you do online proofing you're gonna lose the sale it's guaranteed uh because it's not gonna happen time gets in the way just proven right you've gotta bring him in you've got to show it to him now you're in you're in a little bit of a conundrum because you're starting off you're working out of your home or something like that and that's where we were for the first two years we were working out of our home look to rent business space okay, so they have these things called business incubators small business association has um eso goto dot gov there's a link out there I'll try and find it wrote an article a few years ago where you can look up all the business incubators across the united states so just kind of google business incubator seattle right you can actually rent some of these by the hour and so if you know you just got a set of client previews rented for eight hours waiting for the day you might find that it's only a hundred bucks to rent for the day or fifty bucks to rent for the day because it's funded by the us government so look for the business incubators and that will give you huge option and then in other cities urine there's more creative spaces like you might find a shared studio space that are being rented by graphic artists photographers things of that nature and again you can rent it by the month usually for very inexpensive compared to what it would cost you normally or by the hour so definitely look for that google your city business incubator good question all right let's keep it rolling man lots of information hopefully everybody's keeping up reception alls identify all local reception halls ok now for this one you can look to the chain changed as well because they're being run by the catering group so catering is usually controlling the ball room and things like that so those tend to be very local in their relationships you're not dealing with corporate so if I'm going to the hyatt came st louis the hyatt has a reception hall I'm not dealing with hyde corporate I'm dealing with their local team on the ground they control the vendor list they control all this stuff offered a photograph their facility for free two options with or without a couple now it kind of alluded a couple of minutes ago to what I was talking about which is hey guys here's how we do it when we go into this reception hall I'm saying to them hey you're saying no you've got twenty people on your preferred vendor list already great if you ever need anything, let me know so that don't just take no for an answer but here's your approach you could do it with or without a couple obviously couldn't do with a couple gets what should already be working in parallel with getting people in a wedding dress and tuxedo for the bridal song so imagine this giant shoot you khun possibly produce for near nothing and have all these sales tied to it and make all this money ooo least connections tied to it that's the ultimate goal so what's the give time we're going to coordinate the shoot we're going to provide you with the imagery both digital prints and bridal shows reception halls don't show well when they're empty you realize it's right there just a giant empty room so they walk a potential bride groom into it and you show them this empty room there's no vision bridegrooms don't have that kind of vision, so the reception halls, what they want to do is show pictures off their facility. Well, obviously, if you're a photographer and you photograph there, you're gonna have tons to show, however, what they really rarely have are pictures of the rooms empty, I mean, not empty in the in the sense that there's no people, no tables in it empty in the sense that there's no people in it, they love the way that room looks. So what we do is we'll go in and we'll say, hey, just give us a heads up if cocktail hour starts at six o'clock on the room's gonna be ready by five, let us know we'll get here five and we'll photograph the room for you wide open. Turn the house lights on, put the camera on a tripod, right? We don't want to use flash for this, we want to showcase the room in all its beautiful ambient light that's tough to pull off hand held right you might be in a tenth or fifteenth of a second. So here what we're looking to do, get your tripod, set it up so two hundred is so four hundred and it might be a ten second exposure that's great, that image will look ten times better than any image the photographers taking where is using on camera flash and bouncing on the wall because what happens is when you start doing that you lose all the ambient light in the room and that's what makes the room look intimate so that's always my goal when I go into this kind of scenario again I want wall display space with my logo in the sales room what could be more powerful than you having a fifteen by thirty or twenty by thirty canvas on the wall of the sales room with your logo on one of these images I'm talking you about nothing could be more powerful than that so what's it going to cost you a hundred bucks for a canvas well worth the investment I want to be able to leave a flyer with my information there if we're going to invest in coming to shoot your space all the time because I will go back over and over again they may have a different event every other weekend that's that looks different that they want to showcase the room great I'm cool with that I'm gonna give them those prints so that they can be a bridal shows showcasing those prints in there booth how awesome is that? So when you go to a st louis bridal show and you walk around and look at the caterers and the florist and the dressmaker's, you're seeing my pictures my logo in booths that aren't even mine right so by the time the bride gets to my booth she's going I've seen your name everywhere through this bridal show yes that's what I want to have happen and that's because of the investment I'm making right if she comes up to me and she's like oh I've never heard of you or you knew my god I think I want to stab myself in the neck if she said that right it's bad and then of course I want to be on the preferred vendor list so here's what we got to do again this is step by step guys there's no reason for you not to walk away from this start doing this casting call if you need models friends, family past brides past brides love doing stuff like this for me they absolutely enjoy it coordinate with the florist the linen company the chairs the planner the invitations have them stage the room for you so we've done this with great success we went to a very high end ballroom in st louis it's the coronado we stage they needed a shoot for their magazine ad so they were running a full page magazine ad they wanted a staged shot we got the caterer where we got them to give us the room the chairs, the planner invitations everybody came in stage the room for free they asked us to photograph it we didn't charge them a dime all we got was photo credit in the magazine photography by salvador sinkala that's what we want okay and now I'm on their preferred vendor list no sale off this huge networking opportunity this is a monster networking opportunity for you again if you're watching online are you sitting here I don't want you to believe you're going to start down this path and by tomorrow you're gonna have one hundred of these shoots lined up it's gonna take time there's gonna be doors that air slammed in your face it's okay just be persistent if you want to be successful, be persistent and then of course isolate each of the products not everybody the florist doesn't want a giant picture of the room they're going to want some tight shots okay if somebody's doing table numbering zor calligraphy or any of those kinds of things isolate each item for the vendors so that you can give each one of them individualized pictures that they can use for their fur websites facebook things like that what about doctors? This could be a little tougher I'm not gonna lie it is a really tough one to crack doctors do not give a crap about photography so you're rarely dealing with them directly usually dealing with their assistants they don't particularly care they're non responsive but if you're if you are in fact persistent you will get some traction baby's dentist, baby doctors, dentists, plastic surgeons if you walk into some of those rooms man it's like stepping back in time sometimes you go into their offices and I feel like I'm stepping into the nineteen seventies with some of the war that's on the wall the orange chairs right? They haven't updated it doctors by the way and lawyers our justus bad as photographers and marketing and advertising their business they're absolutely horrific they're good at being doctors they're good at being lawyers they're horrible being business people so what you want to do is design a leave behind piece what do I mean by that you're gonna go to the doctor's office, don't cold call try and schedule an appointment okay it's gonna be tough you're gonna have to keep at it and you're gonna get that meeting at some point with some doctor somewhere but you're mostly gonna be meeting with their assistant. Well, guess what? She's got to run it by the doctor because his office she's just gonna be describing to him which you're trying to pitch door no vision the doctor does not have vision that's not his job in life that's your job create a leave behind piece of what you're trying to get them to put on the wall okay, so I'm not saying leave a print created nine by six flyer two sided maybe show some of your work hanging on a wall maybe borrow shots from the company, you're buying the product from, showcase it in a living room, showcase it in a waiting room to give them a sense off what they're looking at for their space. Right? You've got to create the vision for them. Uh, maybe leave a sample behind, so get a small sample. Okay, obviously, this one's gonna cost you a bit more money, it's not for them to keep kate's just so that they can show the doctor what you're envisioning, envisioning. So for us, acrylics and framed acrylics are very, very popular product. So if I were going to go to a doctor's office at this stage of the game, I would give them the acrylic, leave it there, right, and be like, a show this to the doctor. I would want to decorate your entire waiting area with this product. Okay? And so I'm gonna leave that there so he can look at me like, wow, this would look amazing on our walls. Don't get a monster print, get something that small cost effective so that you can show him and then say to them, we'll put the size that's appropriate on the wall. Um, again, the gave his time, your coordinate, the chute, you're going to provide the imagery. In return you want wall display space with your logo if they're not willing let you put your logo up you're not willing to do this it's not worth it because everybody who comes into that waiting room he's looking up on the wall and seeing your portrait ah and then of course leading a flyer for more information right? You go in there what's there you go to the doctor's office have any of you ever been to a doctor's office and you go weigh in on time? Never I have never I have a three o'clock appointment I get there to fifty I'm lucky if I'm seeing the doctor at three thirty pisses me off but that's the way it seems to work all the time there always running late so what do I do? I read these magazines that are there why not put one of your magazines one of your flyers? They're so that that the client sitting there khun look at this and maybe get inspired and call you for a photo shoot that's what you're ultimately uh looking for once again casting call we're gonna take all that all the ways we learned to promote and market what's going on on facebook on craigslist, friends and family looking for appropriate models, so if you're going into a baby doctor and it's ah right and it's for maternity you're going to look for maybe pregnant moms maybe newborn babies okay, so you're going to run a casting call for that it's a plastic surgeon's office right? We're not putting baby pictures up maybe we're putting body parts up right? So maybe we can create these amazing black and white prints off right the curve of a woman's bought uh whatever they do if they do breast implants you're focusing on that part of the body bright but tasteful, right? We're not putting nude pictures on the wall is not what the doctor is going to want if it's a doctor who's doing facial reconstruction surgery it's pictures of the eyes pictures of the nose, the lips right let's make it appropriate for whatever they're doing right so we can isolate those body parts, make this amazing black and white image and decorate their office in a very classy, tasteful way that's what we've got to do it so it's got to be appropriate to what the doctors focus area is again determine the theme the black and white theme is just an idea but maybe this particular doctor likes more of a lifestyle theme. So if you're here he wants to see people happy in life out in a field sunsets work with the doctor creatively to figure out what they're looking for him when I say doctor, I mean his staff rarely or you're gonna be working with the doctor on this guys this works by the way so I had one of our clients for ah who bought acrylics from us right for virtuoso she did this at a doctor's office up in new york massively massively successful she lined the entire car door with I believe twenty by thirty or thirty by forty acrylics uh of families and baby's tto help her start building her business so it's successful it works keep out it you're looking for seven to fifteen models gets what's going to happen again this is not a free photo session people are gonna want to buy pictures from you so this is not going to cost you you're actually going to make money on this you're gonna schedule this over a two day window yep you're gonna have to hustle you gonna have to work hard you're gonna offer free eleven by fourteen print we're going to bring them in for a preview session we need to bundle those packages and here's the price point you need to be looking for three to five hundred dollar average your base package should be two ninety nine for ninety nine seven ninety nine okay for this particular special so it doesn't have to be your normal price points it's just what you're looking forward to cover two days worth of work do the math on that if you weren't in a five hundred dollars average on fifteen shoots that's a very, very good day uh, two days of work for you not to mention all the upside from the marketing and advertising you're gonna be getting in the doctor's office who deep breath for going to advanced marketing techniques questions out on the internet questions here I want to know why you cannot do this starting tomorrow what you think you're pitfalls there going to be which one appeals to you the most? So ladies and gentlemen here anything that jumped out you want to put into practice tomorrow? I just have a comment actually, a couple of days ago my chiropractor asked for a card give one single card got a wedding from it the day after that's incredible. How did that happen? Expand on that hey was just asking I haven't seen him in about a year and he's asking what was noon? I was like, well, photographer has really taken off so I didn't you know he did photos give me a card I'll look at your website and apparently a couple hours later he's talking to another client about photography and he's like oh well check out this card and they called me the very next day for wedding for todd so imagine now you need to go back to this dr and tell him you want to do one of these shoots for him so that he can have pictures all over their off him working on patients of him for his marketing material right cause he's pryce sends out flyers for adjustments for car accidents or whatever. Well, let's show some pictures of him actually working on a client let's, you know, adjusting their back off his room off his hands on the back. Right? So what? Type out of his hands on the back, give that to him and then say a little dude, I'm gonna print this let's, put this up on your wall because I probably has really bad artwork on his wall. Terrible. Yes, they all do. So let's do do that do that for free and boom! You just got lucky on that. Imagine now, if your stuff up on the wall all the time how that can work. So that's awesome. Awesome story, jules, I just have a couple comments. One is we have been, um, with a bridal salon, a bridal shop for over a year now haven't gotten maybe one inquiry, not even about what do you think the problem is that I don't have the piece on the counter with a take away the point of sale? Okay, good. So there was right? Yeah, and then I'm also working now with my dentist who has a beautiful office and also, um, no marketing piece, somebody do that and then so jules, I'm gonna cut you off because what I love about your situation, by the way and I've known you for a few years now what I love about your situation is ur ur primed for your business to explode you have been implementing what I've been teaching you for a couple of years now, but you're just off like a little bit right? You're like you're almost there man right? So you're you're going to make that change for that point of sale, right? So you're doing a lot of things right? And then it's, that little thing that gets you from the ten yard line into the end zone because that's where your men since I met you you know, from the very first time it's like yes, awesome were doing all these things right? But look at all these that were not doing right, right? So every time I see her I get it so many little things out of it that I implement and it makes it better and better and better it's a jealous of all these people that are just starting because they found you from the beginning and I had to wait five years doing everything wrong you figure it out, make it and that's me and that's what it's all about thank you you know that's that's an awesome compliment I take that to heart uh it's just knowing that he's little tweaks man I can get you in the red zone right so you're right there you're in the red zone how do we get this into the end zone and it's those little tweaks man you're like dude I'm at the doctor's office but there's no freaking point of sale display how did I expect people to contact me? You're making it too difficult we've got to make it easy ah for them to contact you so awesome ready for a few questions they better have tons of questions really awesome. Okay, so we're getting the point of sale real estate at the counter and kiki is wondering when you print eleven by fourteen cz for the office or the store sweetie, not the eleven by fourteen but the prints are enlargements for the doctor's office or for the store bridal shop um are you putting your logo's on those prints that you are providing the store out of your pocket? Yes. So when any of these part of the give get with any of these, your logo needs to be on that print that is the only value there. If not you're doing all this work and you're hoping somebody makes the connection between the print there seeing on the wall and who and who you are so no, your logo has to be there now with that being said don't make it obnoxious I don't want to see a twenty by thirty print, and your logo is taking up thirty percent of the image, right? It should be noticeable from a viewing distance, but small in the bottom right hand corner. Okay, so don't make it up now just just make it noticeable because why we're trying to build brand recognition. So good question, okay, awesome and a follow up to that gray, uh, pegasus is wondering if you provide the framing for the images as well. Yes, if those images will in fact be frames, we will own the framing on it as well. I want to make it as easy as possible for the venue. Toe work with me, uh, maybe start offering canvas, right? So if you start offering campus, although for a toy store or a clothing store that clothing maybe, but for a toy store campus might be too much, so just get an inexpensive frame from a michaels. They don't go get custom framing, just keep it simple, make sure it's classy and polished, but that will work just as well. But, yes, you own that part of the equation. I said what we're going to do is take a few more questions. I think what we do is break after these questions before we get up for the last portion of the course. A lot of people are asking this question right here. Sell this from nick panteli photography sal, could you share with us a sample of what those package is? Whether is three ninety nine to ninety nine five ninety nine looks like that's consistent with everything you mentioned. The bundled packages. What what's in those packages? Grab. All right, um, packages in pricing. All right, here we go, man buckle up. I got I just got the fifteen minute queue before break. So buckle up, here's what we're doing because this is not a pricing and packaging right focused event although I know that's something that is the bane of all your existence out there. S oh, here we go where I am on the doctor's one and it doesn't matter it's understanding the framework it's, understanding conceptually what we're trying to accomplish. So, uh, for the two, ninety nine package, first of all, we have to understand, pull through we're not gonna give away the digital negatives in fact there's not a single package on the board that will come with digital negatives from the shoot, it is not an option do not give it to him. Number two, we're not gonna put big prints in the base package. Okay? So on your piece of paper at home on your paper here, right down these three price points two ninety nine for ninety nine seven, ninety nine in the two, ninety nine package, I might put two eight by tens eight five by sevens, two sheets of wallets. Guys, bear with me cause I'm literally making this up on the fly. Okay, so I'm just using what I know about pricing to put this all together and and make it happen for you. So package number two I want to put a larger print in there, okay for them. So package number two I might put another eleven by fourteen in there for them or eleven by sixteen. I might put a fifteen gift prince. Now notice the change. I'm moving to gift prince first calling out an eight by ten or five by seven or four by six. The reason is simple. The first package is going to be restrictive. We're not gonna give you a whole lot of flexibility in my studio and eight by ten a four by six a five by seven are our wallets are all considered gift prints, so when that's ha package, we're just going to put that right moniker there fifteen gift prints and with those gift prints, you can get fifteen, eight by tens if you want to doesn't matter, they don't cost us more than two bucks if you want to get fifteen eight by tens for grandma for grant, right? For whoever you want to get him for aunts, uncles you do whatever you want to do, okay, so the largest print size and there might be an eleven by fourteen how maybe we even throw in an emoto sideshow in there. Okay, it's not costing us anything more if you've got an annual membership tow an emoto so let's throw in an emoto side showing their package number three this is the one we want them at let's not lie we'd love everybody to come in and spend that eight hundred dollars, right? So let's give him a reason to so in that eight hundred dollar package let's put in, um let's put in a sixteen by twenty four print, twenty gift prince in an emoto slideshow sticky albums, which we haven't shown yet, but I'm going to talk about that. And how about a web posting? You don't think mom wants to show all her friends and family? Of course she does how can they see all the pictures? We're gonna give you a web gallery in fact, let's start a web gallery in the middle package, too. So no web gallery in the base package web gallery in the middle package web gallery in the top package. Okay, and then it's sixteen by twenty four print in that top package. Now, if you really feel crazy and you want to do it in the top package top package on lee digital negatives from the shoot that's on you, however you want to run your business. But digital negatives cannot be in that base. Package cannot be in the middle package if you really want them it's gonna cost you and it's up there at the seven ninety nine this way, you don't have to say no, we don't offer digital negatives. Sometimes I know that's a tough conversation for you to have. We don't have a problem saying that, but if you're going to do it, you put it in that seven, ninety nine package and I guarantee you you're going to sell more of that top package than any other one because they're gonna want it for whatever reason they want it, they want it.