Policies Q&A


Pricing and Sales for Photographers


Lesson Info

Policies Q&A

What if the client challenges my policies let's come up with a challenge thrown at me? What if my client says thiss let's see if I can answer it put me on the spot at a client that this was right before christmas and she called me I was like, can you at it double chins and I was like, oh yeah I don't do like crazy editing but yeah and then she came in and she was like country skinnier and so I was like okay and then ended up having to do all this crazy editing to her non existent double chain not existed back fat and like, oh my god, now I have a new policy on editing yeah, you do a policy on editing I'm sure but it was really hard she challenged every thing and there are clients who are going to be like that I mean, I have problem clients too and sometimes you just have to sit is back your head ok it's only a four week process this boss of mine only has to be right for four weeks and then I can get whatever we never have to talk to her again just deal with it sometimes, okay? I mean, ...

I had a couple of bosses and television news that I couldn't stand it I had to live with them for five years you know, so put it in perspective that way and say to yourself, okay, I can deal with this for a few as long as you're getting paid for your time there's always going to be nitpicky clients and in the next segment is it next one? I think it's next we're going to talk about dealing with objections and difficult personalities and how to approach those kinds of people in the sales room so we will get into detail on those types of personalities but you're right and that's good for you you came up with a policy that says, you know, I don't know what it says but something along the lines of minor retouching is included extensive work is charged at seventy five dollars an hour get paid for your time challenge me again come on, do it. What problems have you had? What is the client said to you that has just made you go? I don't know how to deal with us. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller, bueller! We'll give the folks on line one minute tow ok, see you guys, why don't you jump in and say what? Yeah, what are some experiences? Yeah, how about the down payment? Do you ever do people ever say, look, you know what? I just ugh, show me the work and then we can, you know well, as far as booking a session well no, I mean I say I say you know the session fee is required in advance toe hold your spot and to, you know, cover our time for photographing, editing and enhancing your session it also includes the time we take that we spend with you to help you sort through the images and selecting our product for your home. So when I say all that and it's two hundred twenty five dollars, they kind of go oh that's pretty good deal my time is valuable it's just like, gosh, what would be something that you would pay a fee and the reason you have a good question, jim? Because like when I go to the hair appointment like a stylist, I have to pay for it once I'm done with getting my heart cut color, right? Right? However, the client the hairdresser has only lost an hour and a half of her time. If you don't show up, I have an and and she's only lost whatever the cost of that would be one hundred twenty dollars a hundred dollars to get my hair done okay obviously would never do that, but some people do. Where is if I lose a client who doesn't show up to a session? I've potentially lost fifteen hundred dollars and that slot could have been filled with somebody who would have paid fifteen hundred dollars do you see my point so when when you outline it to the client that it covers an offer so much value than they then they are ok with it they respect your time just demand respect in a kind way and you'll get it yeah do you think it would be useful for us to research cos we like and see how they do things like that like hairdresser versus psychiatrist vs yeah, I think it's I think it's very valuable toe as you go through your life and you do your own purchasing in the world analyse the business model on how it works I'm constantly doing that when I came here to creative life I analyze their business not up the wazoo and I was like, this is brilliant this is brilliant I'm incorporating this I'm going to do this I mean they gave me all kinds of ideas to implement customer service into my business and there will be business is constantly that you do that with I mean the craft store down the street, the grocery store the difference between how safeway treats you and how albertson streets you when all those kinds of things and even how the checkout stand is set up albertson's drives me nuts because you have to put the cart to the left of the checkout crying and you go to the right we're a safe way you just push your cart all the way through on your side and that's such a pain for moms who have kids sitting in the basket what she doesn't want to separate from me and go around the left side of the checker sure he wants to be up there with me all those little tiny things make a huge difference customer service so when and policies and all this good stuff so when you find things and other businesses that drive you crazy analyze your own this is see if you have the same problems I had that experience when the my client's prints and I give them to them and then she called me back and says that your parents were damaged by accident what would you do in this case like you give them you print them again for free or you would say okay, well chop ship the prince to the client like yeah, sure they picked the victim up but then she calls me and she says I don't have a child did something with them or whatever it was an accident so she damaged them. Yes. Matter of fact I have a client like that right now and she's an incredible client she has done four five sessions with me when she first came to me she had a newborn triplets and two year old twins and she's thinking about doing it again amazing client and her kids hurts just on a side note her sessions I've done for five sessions and the twins are now for five years old. They are way easier to photograph than most of my two year olds. I seriously love this family so much it's, so easy to shoot their session, but we have campus is up in their home of the last baby plan session that we did for the new before the triplets and they're in the dentist's office in her office and some kid threw one of those slimy things that landed on the campus and totally damaged it. It is just big like mark on the campus, and she called me she was like, oh my god, what do I d'oh, d'oh, d'oh! And I'm going to print it for her. It cost she's the one and not wholesale cost because she's an amazing client, so I'm going to donate my time to her and just have her pay the replacement cost actually do the campus and we'll and we'll go on, put it up in her she's an amazing client, so I'm going to do that extra mile for her, okay? But she still has to pay for the camera it's not my fault that the kid through the thing across the room and hit the campus and she doesn't expect that either do you see what I'm saying so there are places you can give and take for people who really mean the world to you and you want to show them that they do mean the world to you but yeah I mean you're going to have to fix things like that but do it it cost or do it at wholesale especially if she damaged it if you damaged it by all means you replace it for free you don't have saying yeah we do a couple policy chance on my knees do alright also going to get into next what if my client asks for an exception? Perfect. Okay well elissa wants to know what you'd say to this client so a client book three a free session baby package and scheduled her newborn session she then let the hospital photographer shoot the baby and now wants to reschedule because she feels it will be duplicative okay so she booked a baby plan and the newborn such as the new board sessions separate from the very plan yeah three session baby package and scheduled no I think the newborn session was included with three session but then the hospital photographer photographed the newborn god and then she wants a new additional session given her the baby plan includes three sessions right does it really matter if it's a newborn session or not could be six, six months, one year, eighteen months I would totally change that you know what I mean? Is you want to make your client happy? I'm not going to say, you know, I have to shoot newborn pictures. I would definitely highlight the differences between what the hospital comm writing when I can provide because you guys can't see it's a lot different now, I don't know this this young lady, I don't know what her work looks like, and if it's very journalistic, like with the hospital would take and perhaps that's, why the client doesn't want to duplicate, but if it's so different, it looks so wildly brandon separately, then you might want to highlight differences to serve to her and say, you know, well, I really like to go over with you what a newborn session means to me communicate your y to her, I'm happy to change it if you want, but here's why I wouldn't. The decision is up to you, hopefully, that helps her. What if ray, for once, I'm totally great. This is from terry, so terry had a client and you're going to love this phrase. I think terry had a client that when she booked, she didn't realise the client didn't realize how expensive the digitals would be because of her pregnancy brain, and was trying to get me into giving her all the digitals have you heard that one before? Mommy mention we call it. I have it on a constant daily basis. Pregnancy is a disease I have tto admit it is. You do every woman who's pregnant, and you just I don't know why it happens, but for some reason you just forget the most weird things and it truly is true. And, you know, for people who haven't had babies in your client says this to you. You're probably thinking, oh, yeah all right, it does happen. So she probably did have pregnancy brain. However, if she's asking for the digital images and people have said this to me before I had an attorney negotiator type come into me and go well, can't you just add the disk? It's only, like fifty cents for you, right? No. You know, I understand that, you know, pregnancy can sometimes cloud your mind a little bit. And I totally appreciate that. However, sometimes the truth hurts, I would actually say that part, but the truth hurts. And I would say a cz much as I would love to just be able to provide the digital images to you, we are business. And I am trying to protect my livelihood. Are digital files are the most expensive in our studio because there is a lost opportunity cost associated with those files. Once we provide them to you, you have unlimited rights to print them as much as you want. And we will never, ever, ever be able to profit off those files again. That's, why? Digital files have such value to them and that's why we sell them for the price we sell them at. I know it's hard to accept. Everybody wants those digital files, especially when you're able to create digital images yourself on your own cameras. So I can certainly see that. But I hope you understand how valuable they are to us in our livelihood as well, and they go, okay? And everybody wants to cannon. Can you just can that put it a bottle for me? Let me take it home, which is good. I would totally give it to you guys. That's why we're doing this in creative life. And if you buy the class, you could hear it over and over and over and rewind everyone. You know, not only that, but if they purchased the class, they could just play that for their client, you know, just get twitter ago here's what she said, just listen and agree what if the client asks for an exception just like that that's exactly how I'd approach it sometimes and sometimes that truth hurts for lack of a better word but if you say it so honestly and soul vulnerably and with a smile on your face please understand but also in a confident firm way hey it's, my sandbox don't try to take it over, you know be nice to me, it's just like standing up to the bully and I'm saying no, leave me along but in a kind way that would get you far yeah, I have a nurse client and I was kind of a similar situation and she was messaging me because she's a friend on facebook and she was just like this is crazy and I'm a nurse I think lives and I don't even make this much money I don't know how to respond you know what? You know what that is that's just fear and anger and insecurity that she can't buy what she wants, you know she's frustrated because she can't afford it. And so it's always someone else's fault it's your fault because she can't afford it. You make too much money do you really mean and she's trying to like it's like a set of psychology one o one she's trying to get back at the world for her frustration that she can't afford it especially if they know what the prices are in advance there's really no arguing about it and you know you're not wrong because I'm sorry I have to help you draw your line in the sand but do it nicely do it kindly and do it with a hey just respect me I'm going to give you my whole heart and my whole world just respect me and I say the same things to photographers I'm giving you my soul here I'm vomiting years of information on you but at the same time you guys know that I'm just asking you to respect that information and use it wisely and use it respectfully that's all and you get that without even me having to say it right so it goes the same thing with your client's draw your line in the sand kindly problems happen usually because you screwed up I mean think about the problems you've had you probably put yourself in that whole somehow somewhere along the line okay when problems happen analyze go back and ask yourself what happened ask yourself where you went wrong and then do whatever it takes to fix it okay whatever it takes to fix it okay whether that means swallowing the money and making the client happy providing whatever it is that cost relighting your policies don't let it happen again get up off the ground you know put some ointment on your bumps and bruises and move on. Yes I asked you to sign over the rights to the images that I would never copy, right? Right? They get copyright usage rite, they do not receive copyright and my literature explains explicitly, jewel images retains all copyright toe all images and has the right to use the images in any way we see fit. You have the right to print them and use them for personal use an unlimited way for an unlimited amount of time. You are responsible for taking care of the files. We will not provide them for you should you lose them or whatever after one year, okay, makes him yeah don't ever, ever, ever give up cooperate? Yeah, they haven't signed the model release. How are you? Oh, that I'm very respectful of it. Well, of course, but you know, but why just playing devil's advocate? Like, why would you need to retain the copyright if they haven't signed the model release since you're never going to be able to use it? Since they haven't always want to keep copyright on your images, you own them you you're the artist, you've created them, you own those intellectual rights. If someone tries to copy it, it doesn't have to be that client. It could be some other photographer down the street who's making an exact replica of your image if you own the copyright to that khun, prove it, and they try to sell that image somewhere to a big magazine, however, make about a boatload of money off of it, you have protected yourself, so so so I always against your client, it's against commercial ventures facebook, for example, facebook has been their little policies thing that they can take any image off any facebook page at any time, and use it for their commercial uses a little scary, so you should probably watermark everything. I don't want a mark my client's images, which I'm still struggling with, trying to figure out how to how to do that effectively. We're thinking about doing web files that are watermarked and then also providing the print resolution images and then outlining that. But you know, time, I don't have a lot of time anyway dealing with difficult clients, those crazy ones who just don't get it. Ok, then how to do it in person sales session with no studio. Okay, let's, take final questions. Are there? Is there anything from the internet that I'm missing or that we haven't discussed? Well, we have so many questions that have come in is overwhelming. Thank you so much for your questions, people and what we want, we ought to get to all of them. But let's, ask a couple. Yeah, so steph wanted to know, how would you approach a claim that is willing to buy the files, but not just for personal use but also for business used in the catalogs of their business? Yes, I would provide single rights to single images that commercial rate great. So research commercial rates it's much different than then portrait rates or personal, right? Yeah, and you know that covers like it could be for editorial and for what it's worth what's the publication, the magazines, how is going to use time frame all that and there's, a commercial photography guide out there on the internet that talks about usage rights for commercial purposes and how to charge was like a bible of commercial bible on that? I'm not sure what its name is, but it is out there and the follow up do are any of your images ever purchase for commercial? You know what it is? That's usually let that good client wanted a family portrait for her website for her dentist website she's also my dentist, I just let you use it there's times that I'm just like, I love you, you're amazing, who cares? You know pick your battles somewhere worth it if you have a client who's spending ten thousand dollars a year with you and portrait, you're going let him have whatever they want and you know there are points where you go. Okay, sir. Here you go. Love you. By this woman goes to went to see santa clause with me and my son over christmas. I'm friends with my clients. I love being friends of my clients and b for warren. If you take this system into place, your customer service will go up so much that your clients will be so deeply and dear to you that they will want to be your friend. One of my clients, amanda, comment on my facebook page today. She's like, oh my gosh, thank you for the stickers you sent audrey. I'm in this little sticker club thing with all of our kids, and we send stickers and she's like, thank you, somebody we got the stickers and she's so excited that incredible! I was liking all this big thing. She's a dear friend. Okay, you're going to be friends of your clients. I have no problem with that. Some people do. You will have a problem with it if you're a softy and you given everything. So again it's just a matter of respecting the time and effort that I put into things and demanding that respect from the people for my business so important more questions yeah quick question actually a few people have asked about I'll just uh about online elektronik signatures and yeah, you know there is I've been mine isn't quite ironclad there are ways to do sign documents online that air like legal online things and minus not that way right now wufu dot com is the form's thing that I use and honestly I do need to get that signature thing more of an ironclad you like you could actually apply for a loan now through a bank and sign everything online it's really crazy it's kind of cool and so I would definitely research those programs for your policies and things like that to make sure it's more legal in iron clad so you have them actually signed the physical document when they come into the studio no, I just have them to the electronic format on okay that's a weakness in my business that I need to fix okay, so people should look into that yeah don't you don't do what I do e just I guess I just admit this stuff because I don't have all the answers either, you know? I mean, sometimes I'm going yeah, you do not shoot you know and it's just evolving process and do what you can get so gretchen well would like to know how do you deal with pricing for friends and a good question? Well my sister's a photographer so we just trade you know we just shoot each other's families for friends really really close friends I will just do it because I want teo and I'm as you can probably tell a kind of a giving person and I like to give people things and I'm a softie too but you know, for really close friends I'll just do it, but then the great I heard of for acquaintances what I'll do is provide a gift card to the studio a couple of ride like a three hundred dollar gift card and say we're gonna, you know, like for christmas or or newborn baby showers? You know, classic, I get invited a baby shark good friends it's totally obvious what I have to give her right? So I just give her a gift card to the studio for three hundred dollars it looks like an incredible value. What does it cost me about thirty five to forty dollars that's my cost of good on that amount of money doesn't make sense so that to her shows that I'm making an effort that I want to help her out, but it also shows that respect line for my business absolutely I actually heard a photographer say if you would call this friend at three in the morning if something went really wrong, those are the people that you give free sessions, exactly that's a great idea, that's a great way to teo separate the men from the boys that's a great idea that that was funny. All right, have a marina has one more question related question for italian clients to provide additional discount when they ask you like way, coming back so many times to you, why don't you like give us a discount and especially asked for a big discount? Not a small one, don't you? What were you saying? What would I say? I would say I love you, I love working with you and your family, and I'm so honored that you're choosing us on. I appreciate the fact that you'd like us to provide a discount. However, each session I spent just as much, much time on each one, and each session has to provide the income to support our business. And so I I would love to give you a discount, but I have tons of re be clients, and if I did that to everyone, I wouldn't be able to make a living people ask me for the cash discount to get three percent cash discount cash, no. I mean, I'd love to. But and I was feeling a little guilty when I say no, but they always tryingto they laugh about it and try to like squeezing, and then that if I say no, there they go. Well, you know what doesn't would ask. It doesn't hurt to ask at all. I asked for it, too, and I got a certain thing.

Class Description

In order to make money as a photographer, you have to know how to price, package, and sell your work. In this 3-day course, small business owner and award-winning photographer Julia Kelleher will teach you how to create a strategic sales system — without relying on over-the-top, hard-selling sales techniques.

Julia will help you identify new product and sales opportunities, including the importance of in-person and projection sales. You will learn powerful selling techniques by watching Julia conduct an actual sales session live, right before your eyes. Julia will also give you a comprehensive pricing overview — including how to create packages that encourage your customers to spend more purely by adding the right value.

By the end of this course, you will know how to predict your sales averages, forecast growth, and go from thinking about the next single sale to thinking about the next year of sales.