Pre-Consultations: What Questions to Ask
So topics what do you discussed in the pre consultation? Well there's a couple things you can talk about these kind of what I do product style decor, personality pricing and expectations okay pricing is the one that some photographers don't like to discuss I don't agree it's a personal thing like I said take what you want others workshopping what works for you this may not work for you I like showing pricing because everything's out on the table there's no secrets okay it's like a guy coming to a date and it's so bad bills anyway it's it's like a guy coming on a date he stressed on like an armani suit and polished shoes he's got a rolex watch on and then you go to his house he's in a one bedroom crappy apartment on the south side you know it's really you made this impression that you're a successful guy and you're not your business card says president but you're really not you know I mean it's like I want to get everything on the table and say this is how much I cost I want to be prepa...
red for that so there's no surprises and you fully understand okay? So product what your goals this is what I ask my clients where your goals, what we're shooting for usually get me a perplexed because if I asked you what we're shooting for, I want images of my baby you know okay yes and I can't I start general like that on purpose so I don't want to say you know what product of you after right away because that sounds like I'm pushing a sail right I want to ask her you know what your goals for your session rule general question and see how she answers it because I want to know how she's gonna answer is she thinking product or is she thinking pictures nine times out of ten it's pictures oh I just really love your work and we saw you in the hospital and weigh just want really pretty pictures ever made yeah that's pretty much what they say okay if she says oh I just love your work and I saw those campuses you have in the hospital there's really thinking about putting one of those over our mantle she says that I'm gonna launch into a totally different dialogue was I know number one she's my client and number two she immediately prequalified okay not immediately but I'm going to take her on that prequalification path and you know we're going to talk about things a little differently if they say oh you know I just want we saw your pictures and we just really know we need to get this done kind of thing then I'll start digging further I'll say well you know what are we shooting for? Most clients most people who come to us families want teo commemorate this moment was something special, and we specialize in doing these types of art products for a client's we, of course, also offered digital files so that you can print how you like and we'll get into that don't worry, I know there's all kind of screaming going on on the internet right now, but we'll get into that, okay? Because I do it very specifically, so don't bark at me until you hear what how I do it. So the client who isn't on that prequalification path yet, I want to ask her, you know, okay, so most people do something special. This is what we specialize in on it's really wonderful to be able to pass this on to your kids. What wall have you considered in your home that might work for something beautiful of your family? And she goes, oh, I hadn't really thought of that. Well, you know, some one of the best ways to see if we're the right fit is to come in and have a little chat with us. We'll just make an appointment to have you talk, and if you would like to book, you can go ahead and book then and if you don't, if we're not the right fit will gladly tell you other photographers in our area who might be able to help you out oh, great I'm usually they're like, oh great, yes, thank you it's like relieves them almost there like they know they're going to get the answers to their questions and they're not in the dark and I'm actually taking an effort to speak with them in person to help them and what have I done? I've just endeared her do it to me a little bit I've also showed an example of good customer service I want to treat you right come in, I'd like to talk to you if they don't want to come in there price shop and I don't need him getting out here, okay? If they don't want to come in with oh, I just I'm far away, I'm just not sure I don't have time I'm about to give birth I'm a little nervous, but I'd really like to book you and we are thinking about doing something homer just not sure yet then I'll take her on the path of okay let's get you booked I want to talk to you on the phone will be doing a little bit of a mini pre consultation on the phone and then when you get here we'll talk a bit more about it during your session and show you what the different options are before we start shooting so we can have a little bit more of a plan and that great do you see how I'm kind of evaluating each different client and what the what the prequalified client is? What the prick all kinds who may not come in and who the client that I don't want this and I'll just kind of say oh, you know okay, well, we don't really want to come in I just want to know what your how much is your digital files? Well, on the medial I start I start knocking out really expensive prices right away I'm just like okay, well, your session fees to twenty five and digital files start off with three, ninety five for a small selection of images from your session way usually show about thirty to forty and you could just get to choose ten they're like, oh that's it like if you want all the full rest files, most of our clients invest around a thousand dollars on their session oh that's too expensive, my budgets two hundred sometimes they'll say that's ridiculous! I can't believe you charge that much, you know custom photography isn't for everyone, but we'd be happy to refer you to someone on the street yes, please ok go to so and so and so and that's it it's done and they're gone I don't have to do with them and I have to waste time on them and that leaves room for the guy I want to marry that client that I want to marry you no, I'm saying I much rather have them get out of here now then go through all that work it's just so disappointing I mean, you just wanna like walk home dejected crying when that person doesn't spend and you're like I just did all that work I feel so unappreciated and your self esteem starts to go teo, did you raise your hand for a question? I just wanted to say how much I just love love your philosophy you'll think you because honestly and we're always thinking like, what can I do for these people? How can I kind you? What can I do and that's just our mentality around clients and business and to think about it more like what? What are they going to provide for me or what? The mayor? What am I going to get out of this it's a shame it's a complete shift? Yeah it's a two way street your business has to thrive, but you also to make your client happy and if you can't make them happy with your business model, why you're serving them your business still has to survive my number one priority is to feed my family my number one priority is to make sure my little boy to go to college okay, so my business comes first I have to be profitable if you don't want to be part of that and I can't treat you the way you want to be treated that I'm not the right business for you it's just like oh gosh let's go buy a car for pete's sake you going mercedes dealer and they're goingto know their high end luxury car dealer and you can expect to spend quite a bit of money on a serious luxury vehicle I walk in the showroom I just bought a used car from a mercedes a lot but it's a used car I'm looking at all these mercedes going oh my gosh this is you sit in one of your like afraid to touch anything so and I know that if I went to go buy a mercedes they treat me like gold but I can't go in there and stay oh my gosh I only have ten thousand dollars has been what can I get? I'm not gonna do that your customers are going to do that either if you draw the line in the sand and say this is my sandbox play with me in my sandbox or don't do you know I'm saying ok so along those same product lines we're going to talk about where did they envision hanging wall portrait we're going to go that directions and then also asking what their expectations are for the session what their vision it's a broad question what's your vision for the session full big, isn't it? It's vague on purpose I want to know how they think this information is for me but the question I'm asking them makes them think the information is for them my manipulative maybe sounds woman if you like but I really try I want them to feel good I do want to know what their vision is but I also want to know how their thinking if they answered that question well I don't know I just saw those pictures of the baby there's one on your site with the roses and the pretty and I just love that I want to recreate that if that's all she says okay great no problem we're still photographing your session but then I'll start asking her things like, you know again around the home what we do specialize in matching things to your home day course I'd like to know a little bit more about your style and what your vision is so that we can make those two things mesh so you love the images when you come in to see them what am I doing for her? What does she think of me right now? What does she think I'm doing getting to know her telling her I want to make her happy confident in what I do yeah I'm telling her I want to meet you I want you to love these just as much as I do that when you come the viewing appointment you can't turn them down okay so I'll ask her what her vision isn't her expectations are for the session oftentimes they'll get into I just really want a beautiful image of my daughter with my new baby how old's the kid eighteen months great because for a limited panic but you know they happen all the time you just got to deal with it if you're reborn photographer and okay great I'll ask a lot of questions about that little girl what's her personality like a she helper does she like the baby? Does she want toe b does she like dolls and like to help mommy with baby or she loved it more jealous those things answer those questions are huge and then also if I'm going to shoot a sibling like that they better come in before seven days old you know why this is totally a baby thing a two year old is in the honeymoon phase in the first seven days that baby is still a novelty is still fresh it still like oh cute love it they want to be around right after the seven day mark they start to get a little jealous especially if it's the second baby because they've been the center of attention for now two years and all of a sudden I have to share mommy and they start to reject the baby a little bit. So the minute I get beyond seven days it's much harder, especially it's mental personality of child. Obviously, if the child is still, you know, it's, totally dependent personality child. But I try always to get siblings in when the baby is seven days or under, because then I have much better chance of getting a sibling image. Then I do. If that baby is older because all of some we start to get these rejection feelings. And by the time those go away and the three older sibling is actually adjusted it's like a month down the road and the baby's told a shoot. Okay, so think about those things when you're doing family images and stuff like that and communicate that to your client and the pre consultation is the time to do that highlight the different features of the products and why why they may want to choose an art piece and again, this gets into your y your purpose. Why do you shoot while you do what you do? What you believe client still by what you do, they buy what you believe. Simon sinek. Okay, look him up piece, amazing love style, we just got clothing. Okay, obviously get those creative killers out of the way. Where will the sessions take place? I'm going to go on location. You do studio? I always recommend two on location photographers shoot somewhere where that family has an emotional connection to if they always picnic in a certain park you better go to the session there, okay? Because when you shoot it in an emotional location to them every time they see the images those emotions are going to come back we sell emotion, we don't sell paper, we sell emotion. We don't sell paper get that in your head we sell emotion the feeling that comes back every time they see the images that's what we're selling okay and that's a continue return on investment and the fact that investment grows over time it's a awesome return on investment and you need to teach your clients that and educate them that what color schemes are we drawn to? I always asked my clients to like cool colors to like warm colors amanda like warm colors you should see her home it's all warm red brown's tones like that and that her walls have a white creamy tone to it so the white images with the family are looking really good in those spaces and that's what I shot for the family image will sell ninety nine percent of the time shoot it well that family image to be the most important images shooting should take the most time with that image because that's the one they're gonna buy that's the one they're gonna want to put on the wall right that's why I get so upset with newborn photographers when they don't want to shoot the parents like really you're just throwing money out the door you were throwing and I hate to be passionate about this and get on my high horse about it I'm sorry but I mean it's like this is a family this is it this is the emotion he oh if you're scared learn you know do it learn it because that those are the images that are going to be the most special to that family those are the images that they're going to love the most yes question moms don't feel great about themselves as a labourer how do you deal with that it's a really I had a client last summer she's beautiful, stunning woman and she did not want to be photographed with her baby and I mean she was adamant about it and I said, you know don't do this for you do it for her scarlet scarlet um I said don't don't do it for you do it for scarlett ten years down the road when she's looking at this image of you and her you want her to know how much she was adored you don't have to look at the camera, you don't have to use that to follow directions let me shoot them I'm the only one who'll say them see them and if you don't like them not to worry about of course she bought him they were her favorites when she puts on her facebook page I mean, you know I mean it's like she just posing and lighting of course and you liquefy use liquefy like crazy on mom's not enough to make him look like something that not but help them out make them look like they were when they're not have when they don't have twenty pounds on because that's how they want to remember themselves if they didn't want to they could take a snapshot suspension of disbelief that's what we do that's why they hire a pro okay that's what? They want to look good so it's our job to do that so I'm perfectly okay with liquefying mom to make her look good, okay? Not something she's not but a better version of herself so let's let's keep that in mind. Okay, so I ask him what color schemes they're drawn to if they could shop for clothing anywhere where would they go? No budget. You just want a four hundred million dollar lottery? Did you see that that one guy wanted in california somewhere a payout for hundred million he paints like two hundred forty two million bucks okay, we'll take it here it's amazing anyway so imagine you want a lot of it you could buy clothes anywhere where would you go what's your style where we do goes away your dreams shopping trip I've never really thought about it you never really thought about it where do you go to shop for clothes with her store with restore awesome what about you like some mall by uh college camping in the name of dub yeah shops up there thirty store in particular that you love style like anthropology anthropology is so yummy isn't it? I walk in there and just the smell of the place makes me excited anthropology has branding down to a science let me tell you they are an amazing cos faras brand goes you go into anthropology with your eyes closed you can tell you're in anthropology just by the way it smells okay that's that's branding weather ninety nine percent of the time I wrap mom and if there is him in about doing that why do you think all wedding dresses or strapless? I mean, you know how hard it is to find a wedding dress with sleeves is not easy because strapless looks good on almost every single woman especially if you shoot it right shooting down on the woman who is a little heavier set and then a little liquefy I have a couple clients were on heavier side and they and shooting close in with the right lighting the right direction and making sure the shadows were placed in the right place it'll it'll work every time and they'll love it okay, so but see how when I ask you about what stores you love if you tell me anthropology vs ann taylor that's a different woman right? You're going to know especially on the phone with her and you haven't seen her and you don't know what she looks like her what's in her closet that's what that information is going to give you an idea of what she's like is a person what her personal stylist and you know my work has such a significant look to it now than most clients who come to me like anthropology nordstroms okay, that kind of clean look they love let's see white house, black market and furniture stores they love pottery barn they live restoration hardware I am a just sucker for restoration hardware love frustration harbor I find that my clients like what I like and it's once your work gets so stylized and it's you you will find that the clients who come do you have a very similar taste that you have and then all of a sudden becomes easy to shoot because you don't you just shoot yourself andi you'll make him happy, okay of course during style we give advice on clothing where's everybody wants to know what to wear I usually tell the dad I want to wear a neutral shirt no pure white and no pure black charcoal tan khaki cream olive keep it in the neutral tones natural tones and nothing too bright long sleeve no buttons no wouldn't they scratched maybe so no buttons please and mom I said don't worry about it I'll take care of you and I love that look I have to do anything no just come and that that to them is the biggest relief because they just had a baby getting out the door is usually usually usually I'm the one of the first appointments they have and just getting out the doors and effort so being able to tell her you know what don't worry spring you makeup light makeup do your hair and that's it that's it great ok they don't worry quite so much or have anxiety about the session and that's a big goal with the pre consultation to is you want to make them I feel like this is going to be easy and fun okay dick or what style is their home? These questions are very important to me I asked him is an elegant contemporary rustic country is a traditional transitional eclectic modern all these things have different terms but you'd be surprised how often my client's google these terms and look at pictures on google going that looks like my house then write down the exact words that I want him to do and I will even suggest to them you know look at google for these different terms and find out what these kinds of of deck or styles are like and match yourself to that because that's going to give me an idea of what you love I'm gonna shoot the session differently give that analogy of the modern white house and the antiques house the french country two different sessions were who weigh different I had a woman come in and she her house you sent me pictures of her house and it was like all white she's having a baby I felt sorry for seriously she hurt a little bit of a control freak her house was pure white okay white furniture the only thing that had color was the floors they were wood floors there was not a speck of dust anywhere and the entire kitchen counter had nothing on it I know it seems like well how could I mean the kitchen how can you know I have something on the counter it's true her counters were completely devoid of any object and she's like yeah really what I look like I'm really kind of in the modern and I really like white when she sent me those pictures like you teo quite you think I shot that session with any color the nursery was white everything was white. I felt sorry for her husband. Good grief. Okay, but we shot the session was white she loved it so but that tells you had I not known that I'm not gonna free consultation with her she would not have bought in the middle of sessions she would've started complaining and say you know what I really like quiet. Can you shoot this and then you would have gotten a little defensive gone well don't tell me what to do you know what is? Your client starts bossing around middle possession if you could shop for furniture anywhere where would you go? Are you a nike? A person restoration hardware the minute I say these names you have a brand on the look in your head don't you restoration hardware? Where do you think? Craftsman? Craftsman, rustic texture grey brown grey they love gray clean but organic. Okay, what about pottery barn? The to compete with one another and they're trying to get away from one of them. But pottery barn restoration, however, still separate themselves. What makes him different? Why would a pottery barn style be different than a restoration? Stop more color, little warmer, isn't it a little more comfy, more feminine? Yeah, I definitely agree so right then and there and and these things are inherent in that company's brand you feel it about them a brand is what you feel about a company so when someone says to me they love restoration hardware overpower burn I know that they have a little bit of a masculine field of them they love those organic textures that gray tone is what they love and they see that in my work and that's what they like so we'll focus on that if they say a mix of you know part of restoration hardware all kind of go both ways with it and shoot it a little differently so you see this information how valuable it can be to you using other people's friending to help you exactly exactly and because those brands are so well known in the minds of your clients it's a great way for them to visualize okay what color are your home we'll rid okay there's like five hundred shades of red let's talk about this I need pictures can you send me some pictures let's look what have I done? I'm getting information I need those pictures I can immediately look at a woman's home who has red walls and know how to shoot the session if she was tells me they're red who is it that red is it the red on the tally lights and the cameras is it you know what red is it there's a lot of reds in the world ok so having your client send you images of their home helps him again make them think that you really care that you want the session to be right and it also gives you information about them in their style okay, yeah, there we go. Nice red tally light that's awesome. Okay, so what room did they envision? A portrait or a series of images if they're doing something for the wall? Okay, what are the lighting sources in the room again? Another endearing question if it's natural light I want to know how that image is gonna be displayed. If it's a hallway I'm going to suggest lighting it. This image will look a lot better if we install some lighting not everybody's going to go that route you know, not everybody's gonna want to put lights up but some clients really want the image to look good. And if I suggested that you know what you need to put a spotlight or two on this to make it really sign. Okay? Okay, no problem. So those are all things that need to be discussed as faras dick horace concerned at the consultation what about personality? These are the questions that really start flirting with your client. These are the questions that make your client go I really like her this is going to be fun. This is these are the questions your husband or boyfriend would've asked you on a first date okay so number one are we fought whatever hui photographing do they like more fresh lifestyle images or they want things to be more formal imposed and made on location or studio obviously so you getting into the nitty gritty these air all still real technical questions but then what unique character traits do you or your children half what do you love about your child stephanie what do you love about your child? Uh my daughter is a reader and just her heart is so giant and loving and big and my son is the most joyful child I've ever met. Okay, this is very interesting the first thing she talked about was very physical my daughter likes to read the next thing she dumped into was the emotions and how they feel I've sucked her in sector into the emotional world ok so it's not about books what you should say about your child what I want you to say about your child is what personality characteristics do you just love about them that make you feel like they're an amazing person when you ask these questions your clients all of a sudden they feel like oh my gosh she really cares about my life and my family and this is gonna be a true portrait session okay, so what books? This is also really helpful for me when I'm working with siblings what books movies, songs cartoon characters are toys are your child's favorite if I know a little girl loves ariel and the little mermaid, I'm gonna be talking about ariel in the session, okay, when you have kids, this is actually very useful. If you don't have kids, go watch some disney movies seriously get to know kid stuff, because if you can kick in with handy manny or dora the explorer, I mean, all these kids cartoons and the kid realizes that, you know the stuff you're going to make that kid just go. Yeah, this girl's cool let's do this. You got to connect with those kids, and when you connect to the kids, what are you doing to the parents? Oh, you treat that kid right? The parent I'll love you forever, you know? I mean, so if you can really show that child that you're interested in them and that you want to get them through the session in a joyful, playful way, the parents are going to adore you. Oh, my gosh, she cares so much about my child. I can't believe she knows he remembered all those things, okay? Yeah, pets too. I do sometimes bringing pets. I'm a little iffy on dogs and tara have struggled with it because I used to shoot pets a lot, I saw whole product line for animals but I've been bit a lot and I'm a little hesitant to bring a dog in with a baby and parents think all my dogs trained it's fine mm doesn't make me that comfortable so it's a safety issue for me more than anything so people do I think just personal preference but some owners think their dogs are better behaved than they really are especially around a new baby because think about it that dog is going to have a similar reaction to the sibling about that new baby coming in and things can change and so I that's my worry I try to talk people out of taking dogs in so any other questions before I move on here question just came in from the life art studio wondering this whole process what is the amount of time that you're spending on a good christian on the phone if I do a consul on the phone it's no more than twenty minutes half an hour if it's in person sometimes it'll take up to an hour especially if we get conversation starts shooting the breeze and being silly with one another I really like a client sometimes well I mean this doesn't happen very often but this client particular absolutely adore her her name's shelly and we must talk for like two hours we hit it off you know and I don't want to shut her out and say, oh, I can't talk to any more but let me tell you, I adore her and her family and I know it's hard because as a photographer I get very emotionally involved with my clients and so when they leave it can't let's go back please go back I want to see you again and people who joined the baby plan in particular oh my gosh a year later and I get to see that kid grow up it's like they're so important to me I just am their cheerleader so you can get emotionally involved your clients this process but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as long as you can handle it yeah follow up question from the life art studio how do you and they don't really ask it this way but how do you maintain control on the phone? The question was really how do you do people just keep chatting on the phone and there's different personality, some people you're in control the whole time in the conversation other people you know maybe try to talk over you are how do you maintain that control and it's just a call anderson it's different you know every person's different in person than they are on the phone, you know? So you're gonna if they've talked to purse on the phone in there real gregarious, not going to get you in person they might be a little standoffish at first and same thing goes, you might see someone on the phone, they don't say much in there, real quiet, and you kind of have to do all the talking, and then when they come in to see you, all of a sudden they're this warm, fuzzy, friendly person when that happens on the phone and on saturday, we're going to talk about dealing with difficult personalities and klein objections, and that really applies to this in a lot of ways, because there's like the silent type, the person who doesn't talk, you know, it's, like you have to feel like you have to fill the space, so we're going to talk about all those people on how to deal with him on the phone and, you know, he's, right? You do want to maintain control, and sometimes people are super chatty. I just start asking them questions and if they're too chatty, I start asking closed in questions. What is the clothes in question? Yes or no? Answer. Open ended questions. Who? What? Where, when? Why? Classic journalism wanna want? Okay, that makes people talk in an interview situation if I say, oh, what do you have about your kids? She started talking do you love your kids, that's a closed in question? Okay, so sometimes you can get people to shorten up by just asking those kind of closed in questions for the information you need rather than letting them go on. Hopefully, that helped great it's. Good. What are julia? What do your rules on having both parents there for the for the pre and post? Good question, honey rules. I do like it when both come, but if mom just comes, I'm okay with it at the at the pre consult because when dad arrives at the session, all kind of go over everything again so he can hear it. The most common way for me to do pre councils is to do them like half an hour on the phone, and then when the client comes in for the session while she's breast feeding for a good half an hour, we talk and have a pre concert then right before the session it's not the most ideal situation, I think it really depends on your business model, but my volume has started increasing so much the last year that we've kind of had to resort to that, and she thinks a little bit, I used to do them own person, and now we're kind of shifting to morris on the phone model, but again, the biggest rule is see it, hear it, touch it. That's how your client will get it saying with you guys when you're learning everybody learns in a different way so yeah did you have I have another question she's got some questions I want to go back but I didn't want to interrupt you what would you recommend for the like little children? Where for the session like because it's hard to find like for the little girls it's hard to find something neutral brown hey forever and they usually priced yeah no different can sometimes the girls they don't wanna cooperate and toe like like not picture toe wear what you want them to wear yeah how do you handle that is a muslin wrap that I normally wrap babies with again saying a classic situation the mom brought a pink dress a little girl what about if she doesn't want the weather that she like, I'll talk her into it, I'll talk her into it. Andi that's a good question but uh I've never really had a kid hoover whose refused to wear something it can't happen I mean, we all know two year olds they have a mind of their own but it's a matter of matter of kind of talking them into it I've resorted to bribes you know mom obviously wants it done so she'll help talk the kid into it I will do techniques like little secrets like all of my secrets mommy, stay away and I like endear the child to me and we've whisper secret tickle she's like she feels like she has this little secret that that her parents don't know and show where it because I'm connecting with her and mom and I'm like I'm giving her control I'm making her feel like she's in control of it and when a child feels like they're in control that's all they really want that's a two year old stance the reason they upset and get have temper your temper tantrums it's just cause they want to be in control of things they're learning that they can be so they want to be so if you could make them feel like they're in control that helps. So as far as addresses for little girls a white dress sometimes it's all I've got and if that's the case then I shoot with white on dh then we go from there so white it's pretty easy to find for a little girl and I will tell parents choose a white a white dress in the wintertime gray is pretty easy to find two like a gray sweater dress or something like that um so does that answer question any other questions before I move on here over the internet land? I think we're good we're good ok excellent let's get um are there any hand signals expressions in your family do you do butterfly kisses or no eskimo kisses? You do touch noses? I want to know all these things I cz they're a little handshake you do do you have a game? Because if I start playing that game with the kid that kid's like, oh she's family, she knows it, you know, I'm saying they'll get more comfortable with me describe your vision for your session in what you most want to capture, by the way, all these questions are in the packet that I gave to you guys, so we kind of took our questionnaire just copied and pasted and put it on the packets. Are you drawn to any web images on our facebook page that you love? You know, why do you like those? Tell me why I really think that presenting pricing is important I want to get those things out, you know, keep the surprise is out of the way I think I think that's critical it's also another time to be highlighting your products. You want to plant the seed of the sale, so when you talk about pricing, you can highlight your products by explaining their pricing, okay? And why their price the way they are when you tomorrow you'll see some of the products that I carry about some of them up here, and when you see them, you'll understand why they're expensive okay and I talk about why this is one of our highest end products what do they love what are their options if they want to do a wall portrait do they wanted just to one or they wanted to a siri's what kind of things like that they want to tell a story is the nursery's some someplace they want to do something things like that and it's the same thing with seniors and weddings and you know do you want something for your office that classic question where is it going to go in the home um sometimes you have to politely ask what the budget is you know you'll know the moment when you're in the pre consultation the kinds kind of having in hiding that I don't know should I spend money on this run are you know and they're really expensive you know you can feel it when they're kind of like oh I can't do this I have I have physically said to them you know I can see that budget maybe a bit of an issue which is completely understandable I'm having a baby is so it spencer on the other hand I can really help you out if you're willing to share what your budget is if you're not that's totally fine I understand but sometimes when folks share their budget with me I can really tell them how to bet how to create the best value for their investment and they go. Okay, well, you can spend seven hundred eighty dollars. Great. Okay, here's, what you could do here is your options. We can go the album route. This is what you could do in that range. We can go the war porter wrapped, okay? And then I give them create a collection and how it works in the audio diatta and what they can fit in their budget. And that opens up there. Like, okay, she's trying to help us maximize our funds. And really, I do want to do that and there's a couple ways they can do that within our pricing, of course implied that you'll be shooting for that specific product. You know, if you if you want to do an album in two, let me know in advance so we can shoot for it cause we showed a little bit differently, like, okay ingrained that makes them think they're like, oh, you shoot differently for an album and, well, yeah, I guess she would, wouldn't she it's like dawns on them all the sun? They don't think about these things. They're not photographers. They don't think about it. You have to tell them.