Pricing and Sales for Photographers

Lesson 22 of 32

The Art of Language: Q&A

 

Pricing and Sales for Photographers

Lesson 22 of 32

The Art of Language: Q&A

 

Lesson Info

The Art of Language: Q&A

I wanted to first say how people were commenting on your images and they were completely blown away that you captured the images you did in this short amount of time you know that you shot way wants you were not supposed to say shoot right what are we supposed doesn't matter? We're on company here if you don't you know I caught myself I said price, we're supposed to say investment I totally make things steak so I'm stood here concerning ogata said the wrong thing I do it to guys so don't expect yourself to be perfect I mean, I've done this a long time and I still screw up so and it was really hard for us not to do big applause you're cute babies, you always I was just wondering if you always play music so I feel like that really? You pulled the ocean out of the picture? Yes that's the whole point is to suck you in the beginning I want that emotion and that's my wife that's why I do what I do I want you to feel that moment this mean in these images will be so much more valuable to you t...

en years from now you're going to remember this experience and you're gonna look back on it and I want you to feel those feelings I want youto remember I told you he's not going to sit here enjoy this every time you see those images, I want you to think of that and how small he wass because before you know it, he's going one and running around like a little crazy kid and it's going to be awesome. But the's airs these air such fleeting moments, and I guess I'm just so passionate about that and what I'm hoping is that people who have these images will relish that feeling of becoming a mirror. Yeah, and looking at some of the images for me too, the way that he's kind of like in the ones where he's tied up in the yeah, little scrunched, yeah. Basket or bucket? Just the way he's position, sort of, like, scrunched up in the fetal position. Sort of for me at least makes me, you know, brings him back to my pregnancy and gives me, like, this visual kind of what he looked like in there and just these motions, you know, that I was feeling on the outside were like, yeah, that was that I never said that to me. That's, really? And it makes total sense. Yeah. Cool parenting questions? Yeah. Cues. Okay, already, this one is from karen at k d a photography. She says this has happened to me, but what does julia do when she knows the one shot the shot is the great one but the clients just not getting it happens all the time I knew how to drive that you just walk over there thinking if you really feel that passionate about it, don't show it you know what I mean if you really do but of course the client you know, these people are obviously artistic their world traveled they understand that art isn't always a smile do you know what I mean? So they were drawn to images that weren't necessarily the ones where they're going happy mommy daddy, you know most of my clients want the happy mummy daddy shots okay, that's the money shot it really is and I'm in this business to make money granted if I really feel like they're going towards an art piece, we do paintings I painted coral painter, so I'll make an image. I'm sure you've seen examples here is we've gone along, so if that's the case, I will veer someone away from an image that I don't think would be a good painting and they trust me for that that advice um and that's why? But I also always ask them I'm like if you want me to input europe in my opinion I will but I want to make sure that you want it first and they always say yes I've never had somebody saying, no, I don't want to hear your opinion and that's why I'm so adamant about doing this in person because that that's where they hire you, you're the artist, they want to know what you know, they want to know what you think, he said, you're the expert in their mind. I may not think I'm the expert, remember, george george is telling me I'm not an expert, but they think I'm the expert, so I have to have the confidence in order for them to believe in me. I have to believe in me that I am the artist, that I can provide a good recommendation for them on what would be the most beautiful image in their home, okay, to take that a step further. How do you how do you keep from having your feelings hurt in a cell session when they're not buying what you want them to buy? They're not, you know, in the images you want them to pick, how do you separate your emotions and your disappointment and knowing that the sales, you know, even out over time? It's not about just this one sale? Yeah, it's about, you know, selling so important to remember that how do you how do you manage your emotions? It was some clients really have no tact we'll just say things about me just like really did you just say that to me it's kind of mean they don't mean to be they don't they don't recognize that there saying that they'll say something silly like one this this last just this last week I had a client tell me she ain't like the image because he couldn't see the baby's face well his face is all tucked in and telling my fault I shot the image wrong and I didn't make sure the baby's face was visible and I screwed up I felt so bad but it was me harping on me it was george on me going you stock you suck you suck why didn't you do that? You're an idiot ok and she said something and it made george go off okay it's not her it's me being mean to me it's the inner critic being harsh so when somebody does criticize your work and you take it as a criticism again step outside yourself and ask yourself okay is he really trying to be critical or am I the one being critical of me and yes, sometimes sales don't end up where you want them to be and there's plenty of time I'll have a couple come in who talk the talk man they talk the way we want to canvas and a little on and they go off they pretend they're gonna spend all this money and they do intend to do that initially, I don't know what happens, or maybe they have an argument that day or something happens, and then they come in and they don't spend nearly as much as they hinted to me that they would, and that is incredibly disappointing, but you kind of just have to chalk it up. Tio lesson learned, okay, it's, not the greatest thing in the world, and then sometimes someone would come in who you think just wants to do a little simple eleven by fourteen in the wall, and they blow the budget and get the top album and a canvas and a lot of that at all. So it's it's a client surprise you left and right? And I'm sure in the chat rooms, they talk about that all the time you guys have had it happened, right? They just throw you for a leap there's always a surprise out there, and when you expect a good sale, you don't get it and when you don't expect us it's very weird, so you really have to kind of experience that a lot. Tio let that feeling go of disappointment or whatever because it is an average over time and it is a bell curve and tried and, you know, that's, why we're doing this, create a system of sales so that most people end up in the top of the bell curve yes you're going to get out liars you're going to get a five thousand dollars sale and you're gonna get a five hundred dollars so it's gonna happen okay and just try to step outside yourself and know that it's an average if over time your average isn't where you want it to be then you get to change that's why you need to stick with a pricing method for a little while to see if it's gonna work don't chalk it just because the first to sail sessions didn't go the way you wanted and it may not be the pricing that's the mistake is it something else are you not doing three consultations is your product max all messed up? Are your policies not correct? Ask yourself what's going wrong elsewhere rather than your pricing all the time okay so mrs seventy three said so everyone has a george on their shoulder I thought it was just me lanie says note my george is incredibly annoying it is annoying, isn't it? And I'm sure he has different names I feel sorry for anybody named george in the chat room poor guy but I know I just made that up on the fly but it's true and everybody has that critic we all have to recognize that we all have it no matter how much confidence you have I mean, I was just telling arlene this morning I was like, the response on facebook has been so humbling there just how much people are learning and it makes my heart just filled with warm fuzzies and I need that external validation to you know, I love to teach when people give you those warm fuzzies and tell you you're doing a good job, it feels good, it really does we all want that in our art, right? And but at the same time we have tto be forgiving of ourselves if we don't get it all the time because that's not what life is about it's, about your purpose continuing on this, we're talking about criticism and self criticism. Lubick, a wanted to know I've had clients criticized their own features, their their noses there, their smiles as she was watching the slide show. How do you defuse and handle that situation so hard? It's so hard and usually it's the mother? Not always. I mean, guys complain about the shyness on their heads and their hairlines and their noses and their chins and all that stuff. I mean, you guys have had a you know what it's like on dh sometimes women can be really harsh on themselves, I mean, they're george's like, magnified ten times and what do I say? I say a couple things I say, try not to look at these from your perspective. Try to look at these from your son's from leo's perspective. Try to look at these from leo's perspective when leo is ten, twelve, thirteen years old. He's gonna look at these and go mom here so pretty mommy, you're so pretty. I mean, that's, what he's going to say because you are beautiful and don't do this don't select your image based on an eyebrow that's off based on the fact that leo will want to see that you held him that you loved him from the start, and I know you do. Of course you do, but an image of you and him is what really cement that in time and that's going to help your client go. Maybe you should think about this from the angle, the other thing that I'll say, I'll say, hey, did you ever have seen your photographs taken? You know, you guys were really young and beautiful, but most of my clients are in their thirties and it's been ten, fifteen years since they've had senior senior pictures taken, and I remember my senior pictures truly here, pump home eighties who, anyway, anyway, the guy looked those of it is not my gosh, I was so young and cute and skinny. I mean, you guys look at pictures of yourself when you were young your gosh it was so cute and young and skinny why was I so why was I so hard on myself? Well, I'm forty one now when I'm fifty five I'm going to say the same thing about myself a forty one when I look at those images and so I say that to my clients I say, you know, twenty years from now when you're fifty yuan a look at these images and just relish how young and beautiful you are so do you want to hang on to that or were you going to turn it away because your nose looks too big and sometimes the truth I would say that my students to the truth hurts belongs you say it was on your face you're fine. Yeah. All right. Well, should we thank you. Guys are awesome. Thank you so much. So stick around. I need to get their information. Okay? All right, well, will be another you guys hang out for another twenty minutes twenty five years. All right? And I know leo is sleeping, so maybe you guys want to go check on the farm and take relax and I have a water or something well, thank you so much, you guys, thank you and I'll get together with you guys so are we is this a good place to end for the day this is a great feast and for that I am happy to answer your questions if there are most of that on dh I know there's probably a lot out there because this was like being a fly on the wall and I'm sure you have questions about what was happening in the middle of it so we're not so just fire away all right let's start with star with you later so have you guys take care do you really believe that after three months I have a question I got something that makes sense you know but you know what the same time I don't want to be responsible for them I think that's the more the issue I don't want to be responsible when five years down the road the client says to me I need another image and for some reason they got lost or something happened or hard drive failed or whatever ireland were responsible for them for that period of time that's kind of why I stand anything else ladies oh yeah go right ahead I know you have questions that you kind of put in their minds and the client's minds that they can print anything they want to themselves and he told them that you can sell them those large files so they can print any size can it be like a turnaround like they can step back and say, okay, we'll buy justice, digital files and we're not going to get anything else no artwork, no albums, we just buy this with the price ofthe digital files, compensate for all of those extra things he like, yeah, because they're in ala carte they're much more expensive, so if they decide not to do a collection not to get in our product, they have to pay a lot more for their digital files, and it meets my average because right now, okay, so average, their invoice was for eighteen hundred, yeah, but what about if they will just separate? They've got twelve hundred so they are paying less, but they're not getting their only getting twenty files, not that old, but they don't get him all know you have to pick you up, pick if you do all the cart, which means you've gotta weed out and they had a hard enough time as it wass weeding out, so if they have to pick them, so this that strategic pricing do you see what I'm saying? I'll hurt. You gotta wait a mountain, pick him and you're going to pay more for the files that if you just went to create a collection, you get him all plus our product for a little bit more money, yeah, you see the value you see whether client looks at that, create a collection and goes well, it's obvious. We should just do critic question have to spend a lot more money, but we get so much more. I meet my average or more. And I'm a happy camper. My happy place makes sense on a client's happy. Yeah. Do you have any suggested system for people who do weddings and have a much higher volume? No. Good question. You think about this for a second. I don't do wedding, so I might have to. You could do a create a collection model. You could have them pick coverage. Then they can. You know, I know a lot of weddings do digital automatically. You could they could narrow down digitals or not. Okay, they can add in step. Could be to add in an album that could be an optional step. Okay. Or you can force him into it. You can force him to go. Ok? You pick your coverage, you pick your album and you pick your files credit collection right there. As long as each one of those things at the bottom meets the rock bottom dollar that you're willing to do a wedding for, they're all right. Okay that was just off I would have to think about it well that's just kind of the top of my head but it's an idea is to get you thinking but do you definitely know if you're going to go that route you sit down and really think about it look at your cost of goods set it aside for three weeks don't look at it for three weeks write it down okay this is a good create a collection than for three weeks put it in a door don't look at it then come back to it and ask yourself okay I'm a client what am I gonna pick what's the best value for me to get when I'm getting married everybody's tired it's the second day we're all on the lunch ladies and we're like oh too much information okay yeah okay we'll think about any final question that any of you ladies have for the day and how about we do one more I think that's great I'm here I'm I'm at your service okay let me know on I'm just asking this for all the people that are just starting out because I know that a lot of people have this on their mind wendy and photography said how many's variety of images do you need to create your product this way's can you do it with all one session or do you need three to four different sessions to get enough variety that's a good question because I'm thinking to myself what's wrong with putting it all with one session especially if it's a good session when they'd be kind of cool to have every different product that you have with one the same session in it that would be interesting for the client's perspective because then they could see it the same session presented in different ways it's just like a nickel I don't see anything wrong with that especially if you're starting out the other option would be to you know, portfolio build and get some models in your studio and create some new sessions if you really feel strongly about not having that happen I don't see anything wrong with it especially if it's a session you love I care more that you have your products to show then whether or not they're all the same session do you see how valuable it was for them to be able to pick up in touch and feel each piece I mean she could touch the canvas she could see the water color I mean remember that host that whole concept of visual literacy they they had no idea I mean they were sitting there I don't know what to do okay, my job is to help them now you understand why if you put this stuff online you're not getting a sale you're gonna give it could sail it all perfect three dollars from online sales really good okay, yeah how would you recommend going about finding what you want to sell for your brand and for you would you recommend going home friends and looking at things or yeah, I get inspiration from the trade shows, but I'm very selective like I'm going to be next week and I will spend two days going to the trade show and I have to have complete tunnel vision I can't talk to anybody and people think I'm rude his door nails when I do this because I don't want to talk to anybody I'm like, okay, I gotta focus on my business right now I got a look at everything and I'm just constantly asking those questions, my head take that work shit with you, right think that's really cool what's it cost to think about how it's going to take to make it all those things and break it down for yourself, then think about your brand I'm an organic, textural, earthy, woodsy type. I love those kind of things you can see it my work so that, like I was looking at that craft into website like that box is so me you'll feel it, you'll know it, how can I make a product out of it? What can I put in that box? I had to order the box to figure out what I can put it because sometimes things you know you don't really know what they are online but I didn't know how deep it was like how many prints would fit in there so I had to buy it and have it sent to me when I got it I'm like, oh, this is awesome and it's a great cost of good can excite it looks expensive and I can charge a lot for it so you will discover and then look att decorating magazines things that inspire you, pinterest you'll see something like for a nursery I mean, I'm talking about babies but you'll see some product that that company is making for a nursery and that'll inspire you teo transform it into a photography product same thing with seniors going to like the buckle or these stores that the seniors frequent game stop all these steps how can you I mean, I know it's far fetched, but chances are you'll be inspired to create a product just by looking outside the industry. So there's a portrait photographer mostly women my clients are not going to be ordering a forty by sixty print of themselves and putting it in there now they're entrance way so I'm trying to think of because I love your business model of like here the files I loaded up to then folio you can order the prints themselves and that's great, but I want to find products that would work for port print products, that would work for portrait, and I'm racking my brain, trying to think of things. If I were you, I'd be specializing in albums. I mean, I know what you and I talked earlier about your business and the photographing women. And if I was going to do that as a customer of yours, I would want to book her an album that I could keep discreetly where I wanted it. But then pull it out. When I'm feeling the need for self worth. My husband could pull out whenever he wanted, and when I'm gone and missed me and love me and adore me. Not that he does, but

Class Description


In order to make money as a photographer, you have to know how to price, package, and sell your work. In this 3-day course, small business owner and award-winning photographer Julia Kelleher will teach you how to create a strategic sales system — without relying on over-the-top, hard-selling sales techniques.

Julia will help you identify new product and sales opportunities, including the importance of in-person and projection sales. You will learn powerful selling techniques by watching Julia conduct an actual sales session live, right before your eyes. Julia will also give you a comprehensive pricing overview — including how to create packages that encourage your customers to spend more purely by adding the right value.

By the end of this course, you will know how to predict your sales averages, forecast growth, and go from thinking about the next single sale to thinking about the next year of sales.

Reviews

a Creativelive Student
 

This was the first class I have ever purchased from CreativeLive in the 6 months I've had it and watched as I could. With a toddler and six yr old on top of a hubby serving overseas I was attempting to watch ten minutes of this when my toddler just wasn't allowing me to watch haha. After just a few minutes I had already told myself if that had happened it would be okay because I was won over already. I knew I not only needed to buy this because there was no other way I could watch it, but it was something I knew would be the BEST investment EVER! Pricing & Sales has been something even my amazing photography group has kept somewhat hush hush and I was dreading the $150-200 for a course in person not knowing if it'd have everything I needed and let's face it, I do this part-time and my husband is military so we didn't have much to throw in the way of me learning more since I'm obviously already upside down with my 'business' haha. This has been so incredibly worth it and if there were ever a course I would buy and recommend to anyone ever again it would be this one. You are so amazingly smart and talented Julia and if CreativeLive had not done this webinar I would have never learned about you this way and learned such valuable information that I cannot wait to implement in my business. Also for any moms wondering, it's worth the cost not just to pause and continue with munchkins throughout the day but it is the best thing you can buy that has so many different tips and ideas to help save your business from becoming a hobby again which mine was about to haha. Thank you so much again for this!!!

a Creativelive Student
 

Okay, I've finally watched this course all the way through and can review it. I wasn't able to watch the live broadcast but the topic was one that I really wanted to learn more about so I decided to purchase it without watching. I will be watching it again as there are great nuggets of information. Julia presents some wonderful insights about the art and psychology of pricing, how to deal with difficult clients and even a bit of in person sales. I liked Julia's take on how she packages her products so that she can reach and beat her sales goal. Those were all great tips! For the most part I liked this course but I wish a few things had been done differently. Because I am not a newborn photographer, and this wasn't a newborn class, it wasn't useful to me to see a newborn shoot - even though I know the point of that was to show how Julia plants the seed of the sale. But I feel that time could have been better spent demonstrating a pre-session consultation and what to discuss with clients, how to overcome objections, etc. The pre-session consultation is a big part of the pricing and sales process but I felt like it was glossed over. Julia talked a bit about how she has clients fill out a form on her website after the consultation to reinforce what she's explained to them. These are all things I would have liked more in-depth information on because they are crucial to the sales process. The in person sales session also went pretty fast - the couple was super quiet so I guess that made things much easier. The materials that came with the course have a lot more to do with marketing your studio through displays and gift certificates. They are beautiful templates - but again, I purchased this class to learn sales and pricing and would have really hoped to see materials related to the sales or pricing process - her client questionnaire, responses to common objections, her list of studio policies as it relates to sales, usage of images, etc. Also, one of the items in the bundle requires signing up for her email list. I don't mind - I just don't expect to do that if I bought a course that should have those materials included. That's my take on the good an the bad - just my opinion.

Jennifer Koskinen
 

Seriously? Where to start! I stumbled upon this, my first CreativeLIVE course, and ended up purchasing it I loved it so much and know it will provide not only great tips as I restructure some of my own business, but also endless inspiration for taking things to the next level. Gratitude ABOUNDS for Julia's candor, adorable personality, humility and willingness to share the "tough" lessons, as well as her unbridled passion and respect for the business of photography... On a more personal note, she introduced me to the concept of separating our inner critic from ourselves and calling him "George." Pure brilliance. Hands down THE best life skills tool I've ever heard in a photography workshop!! THANK YOU, Julia and CreativeLive!!