So this is just a and another image of a little boy with the some in his mouth and the blanket you know and just waiting for those moments in communicating to mom about you know what's going on in her child's life it's so important but this is just a nord er form and I told you guys yesterday that I do hand write my order forms I still I feel pretty strongly about that but it's uh you know, even though we have all the high tech ability it's kind of just a nice little sit down and you know personal communication with them toe hand right there order so and that's just for me personally that doesn't mean it's right or wrong um when you're thinking about your sale there's only a few ways that you can make more money in your business you can lower the cost of sales that you for your product which most of our cost of sales are fairly fixed so that's that's a tough one you can sell more often to every client so you can find ways to get them in your business more often so that you can sell to ...
them more often or you can sell mohr teo each client that comes in raising your averages raising your prices so those two things kind of tie together but you know they're we've gotto always come up with ways to grow our profit margin and there there aren't a lot of ways to do that, you know we can add a new product line and raise our prices we can do a few other things but that's one of the things with adding this event system for us when we knew that when we booked this it's going to be a ten thousand dollar day it's something that you know you book this once a month or however are often you want to do it and putting the system in place it's almost this guaranteed revenue and I'm going to show you um like I told you yesterday I'm going to show you kind of evolution of pricing and how it happened so you'll be able to see how it started in the beginning and it worked in the beginning we had great averages and it's so if that looks like something that's of more interest to you then going all out like I do um you know that's okay too you can do this. What however it's gonna work for you showed a cell we all hear that all the time. But I work with photographers that will tell me you know, such and such or these people are always calling and asking for this or I hate to do this and I keep getting requests for it and then I go to their website and they're showing that stuff and so if you don't want to do it don't show it if you want to do it show it and santy for me there's nothing that's hanging in my studio now that's not a grouping it's going to be there shone just like this they're shown in groupings so that you know used to back in the day the big thing was to sell the wall portrait and that was you know, everybody's goal when you went to hear speakers speak it was sell the wall portrait and it was a goal of mine for a really long time I wanted to sell that thirty by forty you have to have the forty by sixty on your menu to be able to sell the thirty by forty and so we all did that and that was this thing well now I wouldn't much rather sell a grouping of emmett images than one large piece and not that the large pieces don't ever get sold they do but when we can do a grouping it's a lot easier to talk to the mom about you know as your family does grow and change you'll be ableto move these pieces and set him single you know show them separately or you can add to the gallery so it's away toe you know really kind of come across and get rid of those objections a lot of times so so show what you want to sell planned and prepared we've been talking about that for two days now but that is key that is key to your final sale is to really plan and work with the client and prepare them for the sale we're going to do that through the first phone call through the consultation call through the session through the design appointment call if you're doing a order after your session not at the session and then at the order appointment so how that looks is right from the first phone call I told you guys that we start asking them right away on the first phone call you know where you're gonna hang your portrait and that's something that no matter what kind of session we do for the events it's going to come from the host mom she's going to be calling her friends talking about the events and asking them you know where you gonna hang a portrait? This is what laurie specializes in so we're going to coach them tow walk through that if a client is calling the studio for the first time same thing you know she's going to call and say can you tell me how much your prices are? Can you tell me how much your packages are? How much is your eight by ten that's typically the phone call that's going to come unless they've come as a result of a referral or display so when that phone call comes we're going tow communicate back to them we're going to send you all of our prices send you over a product menu how did you hear about us? We're going to start the conversation and then after that conversation get started we're goingto talk about what we specialize in and that's going to usually come when a mom is is going to answer the question when we asked them we're going to ask have you thought about what you're gonna hang your portrait and she's gonna say oh you know I really was thinking about an eight by ten or you know a five a seven she's going to say no no no I really haven't thought about that the answer's always no they have not thought about it all they have thought about is my lucy's turning for it's time to get a photo taken you know I'm having a new baby it's time to get pictures whatever the cases they have not thought about where they're going to hang their portrait so it's that's our job to communicate to them that that is that's what we do and so when they, um well, we ask have you thought about where we're gonna hang your portrait and they say, oh no, I really haven't thought about that I'm gonna answer well, what we specialize in is custom designed wall concepts and so I'm gonna be asking you to take some images of your home and really just walk around anyplace you would consider hanging a portrait I want I want to see that face and as you do that I'll be able to make suggestions to you for clothing for personal props that you might want to include and we'll be really able to customize your session based on your dick or in your lifestyle and so now I've completely changed the conversation away from how much is your eight by ten you know and we're getting them into the mindset of really what we want to do so that's gonna happen right there in that first phone call we're going teo I always do a consultation call whether it's a regular studio appointment or an event and I am use kind of saw that process here but the consultation call for the events it's just going to be calling them hopefully I have their images already if I don't I'm going to be asking them to take their images while I'm on the phone and that's kind of ballsy but it's it's something that I found that it it works and if I don't have those images if I don't have any images of the wall then the sale goes down so they really have to get invested in and start planning and preparing along with me and so if I call them for the consultation call and I don't have the images yet I'm just going to tell him you know hi this is laurie were scheduled for you to come teo lisa's portrait event on such and such a date and I haven't gotten your images from your wall yet and I really need those so that I could talk to you about your clothing and and things that I'm gonna ask you to bring so why don't you go ahead and do that right now? I'll wait and I'll wait while she doesn't on the phone I give everybody my cell phone they can text him to me and that's the easiest thing for them to do and so they'll actually do it when I started doing that it changed dramatically because I usedto ask them tio email me their their images because that's easier for me if I'm emailing and they're right on my computer but what made it easier for the client was to just text them to my phone and everybody's taking pictures with their cell phones, their ipads you know, all this these days and so they can do that very easily so during the consultation call during the session I'm going to continue that conversation I'm goingto talk to her about you know how this is going to be so cute in her room that you know, the place that we've planned this for is going to be this is gonna look amazing so I'm gonna continue telling her this is this is the right decision you've made a good choice and we didn't do that today you didn't see that because we didn't do a whole planning session with lisa, but she did give me three different areas to design and you know, if that was a typical regular session, I would be telling her while we're photographing this is going to be amazing little siri's for your living room and if you remember hers was the house with the two blue chairs and the brown kind of credenza thing with the rocks on it so we did the blue and brown grouping from there we're going to continue it if if it's a regular studio session and they're coming back to the studio week later, then we have that design appointment call and that's just going to be a couple days before they come in for their order appointment. Whoever is doing the sale is going to call and they're going to say no, hey, this is kim from lauren or some studio and we've got you scheduled to come in on thursday at five, so I just wanted to call and let you know that I'm so so excited for you to see your images they're amazing and this is part of our script whether kim has seen the images or not and she she knows that they're going to love them and so she's she can say that and even if you're making your own calls, same thing you're gonna love your images, I'm so excited for you to see them, you want to build that excitement, you want to build that with words and not with those sneak peeks. Um, let them know we're so excited for you to come in and see these images and, you know, I I'm gonna be sending you over, uh, dot design that I've put together for your living room that we talked about and take a look at that let me know what you think if we need to change any colors up, we could do that, and so we're going to get them those images of the blank frames, the frames with nothing in them hanging on the wall, so they're already pre planning and pre buying before they ever come and sit down on my couch. So that's the only thing that doesn't happen in an event because we're doing the session or the sail immediately following the session, but everything else happens in the exact same way as we do it in the studio. And then again during the order appointment you're going teo continue toe, make sure that they know that they're making great decisions, you can't wait to see this all done and on their wall, so it's solidifying the process the whole entire way. Pre session consultation that's what? I just went over so I'm not going to stay there all right? The next way to boost your sales is with a product based menu and this is something that years ago I realized that you know, I am never going to buy something from a list of words and numbers none of us would ever make a purchase that way when we purchased online, we're clicking on images we're seeing him three d with sometimes we can even watch a little video of them or we're buying in a catalog or we're going and having a touchy feely experience and actually being able to try things out or trying things on we would never, ever just look at a word and her description and a price. And so why would we do with such a visual product have a price list? It doesn't make any sense. And so in about two thousand won, I came up with a menu and at the time it was one of the old ate up folios. You guys remember those none of you we're even shooting then I don't think, but maybe had it for high school pictures or something, but they were the eight up full folders that that folded out and you had eight pictures that slid in tow to different man well, I ripped all the mats off of this thing and printed a menu so that when clients came into the studio and opened up this menu and we had pictures of product and that was my first product a menu from that time I changed the language in the studio so that when someone asked to see our prices, we said absolutely we would be happy to show you our product menu and so taking the focus off the price and putting it on the product makes a huge difference to the way people perceive the products that you're offering and so that's you know, even today with the with the children's the portrait event menu we've got it's very product oriented, so when we're showing we're showing images were showing product, they're not just seeing a list of words and numbers we've got campus groupings they're seeing the way the campus grouping is gonna look, they're seeing framed groupings the way they're going to look in the home, so we're pre selling things based on product and not on price so that's one way even right away to raise your prices and something that makes it it makes it so different when you're presenting your pricing in a different way that your clients can't compare when you raise your hand when you raise your prices and so that's the first thing that I would suggest if you know it's time to raise your prices change the way you present the prices and then when your client if it's someone that's that you've worked with before if they're calling and they say, you know hi, I want to schedule a session with you again, the typical response for us is to go raise my prices she's gonna be so mad, you know, hot away. How do we do this? Do I tell her now or I tell her later, you know, instead book the session just like you normally would and then let her know, you know, hey, I've got some great new products are gonna be so excited about. I'm gonna email you over a pdf of our product when you just take a look at it all let me know if you have any questions that way you've presented her the pricing in a very positive way. You've made it completely different so she can't compare and nine out of ten of those people are never even going toe they're not going to blink the one that does make a plan, you know, make a plan, and we talked about that the first day where my plan when I did this, when I decided I gotta change my life, I got to change what I'm doing, I gotta raise my prices or I can't do this, I planned for friends and family day twice a year I did one in the spring and one of the fall, so I planned, like a march date in october date so that in my mind when somebody called and they freaked out about my new prices, I could say, you know what? I understand, totally understand and get it, we do have to friends and family days on the calendar I'd be happy to plug you into we've got march seventeenth in october seventh, which would be better, and typically those people are not going to take you up on it. They're going to say, never mind no, thank you or they're going to deal with the new price is one way or the other and it's okay, you know, if you have a thousand dollars average and your photographing a hundred families and with a thousand dollar average, if you all of a sudden could take your averages to fifteen hundred, you can photograph seventy five people and still make the same amount of money you can afford to lose twenty five percent of the people so, you know, don't get too worked up over, I'm gonna lose people, I'm gonna lose people, the people that you're goingto lose should be lost, so you know, and that is part of the deal, but if you put that plan in place and and what happened for me and I've seen this happen many times for photographers I have worked with people that have had to set up a friends and family day once a month because they were shooting so much because they were so cheap and so to transition they set up a friends and family day one saturday a month where people could come they kind of had the old prices but they were shooting almost like a portrait event they were doing many sessions in a day and so it was working out average wise um but for me it was that that twice a year and for most people what happens is we need to have that yes answer in our minds but really it just doesn't happen you present them with something different, they can't compare it you're excited about new product and if you don't even add one product to your product line but you present it in a different way and you're excited about it that's how they're going to perceive it this is new, this is exciting, we've got new stuff to look at and they are they're going to have new images, new images, the product so um again just present something new and different so a product based menu can really change the perception of what you have to offer did you have a question, kristen, do you include session fees in the product money or is it the product have session fees in there and session piece or something that I don't mind telling people just right away when they call do you have a standard like I do? One hundred eighty five dollars is our session fee I add a minimum of one hundred dollars if I go on location it typically a hundred dollars if it's in the area but I say starting at and then our our seniors are different our senior session started one hundred eighty five dollars and they go up from there with the time that included you're going to go over like what you add on right are you going to go over those specifically I'm just very curious about like um you know just how you're basically building on to those prices to the session fee yeah and the session feed nothing is included it's a long time on ly in that twenty five hundred our senior session do I have product included and everything else it's a session fee only so its session fee and then you you just add whatever they want to add you have everything else is all a cart basically except for the packages that I'll be showing you for the events okay? Yep all right making suggestions I've been drilling this in for three days um again one thing that you could do differently tomorrow and raise your averages is to just make suggestions and start with one. You know, if it's not an easy thing for you not a natural thing to make a suggestion, just try it, try suggesting one thing and you will be surprised at how many people will just that's what they're supposed to do because that's what you just told them they were supposed to do, you know, when you always wanted to be based on them? I that's one of the reasons why I want those images of the home is because I want to make very personal, customized suggestions that are for them. I'm not going to tell everybody this is right for you, you know that doesn't work for every person there it's all going to be customized based on their core lifestyle, who they are, their personalities, all those all those good things, and then adding a bonus schedule is something that raise our averages is another thing that razor averages overnight, and I was at a point in time when we started the bonus schedule was at a point in time where I didn't really feel like I could raise my prices again. I was the most expensive person in the area and my price is air, not overly expensive when you look at in industry wide at top producing studios, however, in my area and the midwest where I am, I'm expensive and so I wasn't at that place where I could raise the prices I didn't feel like however, I knew that I needed to make more money on every session, it just I had to, and so we came up with the bonus schedule, and it was one of the things I sat down with my team at the time, and I said, you know, what do you think? What? Where are people at the end of the sales appointment at the time, we were giving a gift with purchase, so you spend a thousand dollars, you get this, he spent fifteen hundred, you get that, you spend two thousand, you get this, and one of the girls said to me, you know, we plan with our client so well before they get there, but they're not really getting to the end and going, oh, if I just spent another hundred dollars, I can get this free gifts, that's just not the mind set of the people that we're working with. And and so we started talking about it, and we came up with the bonus schedule, and with the bonus schedule is is for every level of spending that you get, teo, you're going to get to add products at a discount, and the more you spend, the more discount you get and also you show you about scandal in a little bit the other thing that we did with it was be added four by sixes every single image that leaves my studio is mounted textured lester coated every single image it doesn't matter if it's a four by five for a desktop frame or a thirty by forty and because of that I was saying no to four by six is a lot when the mom would ask me can I get just get four by six is for my scrapbook well we just do custom prince well that's not my mo joe I want to say yes to everything but it does have to be right for my business so I with the bonus schedule was able to add on for by sixes and have that yes answer for mom absolutely let me show you how you can get them and so with the bonus schedule once they spend a certain amount of money they can then add a four by six of any image that's ordered which means the work has already been done on it I'm happy to push go again and send it to a c I and so any image that's order you can order four by six and they started just twenty dollars which is super cheap for me they're amounted we do call them proofs because it's different than our our custom prints in the studio this this's how normally are prince look they're mounted on map board they're textured there lester coded um we showed the images from the image box yesterday on I know a lot of people were talking about that and same thing oh, I forgot about these off so those little bit um but the prints that are in here you know they feel good they feel like you've made an investment it's not a box of proofs so they're mounted their texture there lester coded they're protected and they feel very nice, so adding four by six is with something that it was a very deliberate choice for me. I wanted to be able to say yes to the client but I didn't want to just have unmasked for by sixes on my menu and so now once they spend a certain amount of money they can order any image they order starting at twenty dollars and it goes all the way to once they spent twenty five hundred dollars they're going to get a free four by six of every image that they've ordered. And so and again, you know it's sixty eight cents or whatever it is you know, from the lab and just pushing go again, the work has already been done so little things that you can add on that have a great value to the client but don't cost you a lot are a great way to add on to the sale are those for messages? They're not mounted, but there are lust, erred and texture or just looks left from there. There are, they literally are printed like proofs, so they're just prince I want them to be different, and I know and you know that if we don't provide people with things, they're going to photograph them, they're going to scan them. I'm over that. So I'm not worried about that. I'm giving them all their digital files that are websites, so I'm not worried about them scanning and, you know, back in the day that was the argument. What we need to text her are four by six is because they're going to scan them. They're gonna do it anyway. But you do use a professional luster of the professional lester paper when your order act? Yes, the professional lester just don't bother texting. Don't bother mountain, right? Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. So starting at twelve dollars, and what happened when we did that? I started it because we had so many, especially seniors who wanted those four by sixes for scrapbooks and bulletin boards and boyfriends. And you know all these things and wanted something more than a wallet to be able to give them, and I was saying no to money. And as soon as we did that now you get your at this level you can get your four by sixes for twenty bucks so you can get him for sixteen or you get number twelve we've got four levels or you get him free and we'd get to these levels and they were added on twenty dollars, twenty dollars, twenty dollars just because you know all I want this one for this person this and anything they've ordered and he posed a border they can have and you know, so I was adding on overnight two, three hundred dollars onto a sale just in four by six is which was crazy to me I was giving that up before so now we've got a bonus schedule on every single product line that we do and the bonus schedule is for we've gotta select product list of things that I don't want to put in my regular menu and they are things like the cd slide show there the according out accordion albums even small table top frames are on there and you'll see the listing them in in a minute but we've got a list of items that they can get at the end of the sale at a discount once they've spent a certain amount of money so does that make sense everybody so you charge twenty dollars for one four by six lester coded only once they spend a thousand right and it's any theft went even it's twenty dollars my dear my sixes are throwing tonight so clearly three ninety nine in a way we'll get to them but um you are not charging now for sure you're not allowed to leave the building charging three nineteen forty six I'm gonna change it on break very well well and you know in it and we'll get to this like I said but it's normal mentality to say well I pay this much for the lab if I double it or if I triple it I'm making money you're not making money your kids will not eat at those prices I hope your husband has a great job but andy can I just say something about because we were talking about yesterday and I said because we keep thinking about the end of the clients think about the end product because they think oh three ninety nine I can go get a walmart get ninety six cents for a four by six and I was saying well like my bookkeeper and my accountant don't just charge me oh here's your piece of paper for your uh your end of year think I'm paying her for all that time she put in and all that stuff and and it all and accounting charges more than the bookkeeper because they've had more schooling than all of them think so I've got to get that in my mind and in my client's mind that they're not being paid buying a former six piece of paper there buying all of the hours all of the education all of that stuff to get to that product and I will tell you not on the bonus schedule a four by six is eighty eight dollars and that and that is mounted textured lester coated you know like everything else it's a custom print and so and nobody buys those but that's what gets it that value at the end any image that you've ordered you can now have it in a four by six for just twenty dollars you know but if I up I have to find my seven is eighty eight rock star okay we're gonna have a little pricing power for once people all right so um anybody excited about starting about a schedule yeah they're miley you're like city they're looking at me like just the way that the internet has questions wait do you have about eight minutes before break so what do you want to do is to answer a couple questions? Okay fantastic. Thank you so a question from etc a question from d photo again to clarify so you have no print minimum I do not have a print minimum and that's a really good question and I get that asked every single time and yeah that's another thing that's a personal thing for me I in my mind if someone gave me a minimum that would give me something to get teo and I don't ever want to put that ceiling in someone's mind if you're having trouble with people getting to a certain level and you feel like I need to have a minimum, do something that's like a session fee with product credit. So if I was going to charge one hundred eighty five dollars and I wanted to have a five hundred dollars minimum, then I would say your session fee is five hundred dollars. You've got three hundred dollars in product credit with that so it's a credit going to something bigger instead of a minimum that I've got to get to, you have to spend at least this much makes me feel like that's a number I gotta reach like I say. Okay, my my session fee is two hundred and products packages start at three hundred that's. What I say now is that that same kind of is that okay, that works the other way. Instead of is that a product minimum now? I don't know. That's not using the word minimum. Well, they like to start. If they have, do they have to buy at least a package? I think I'm just assuming that bythe way I'm working it out, ok, we have your sessions, he is two hundred and your fact just started eight hundred. I'm assuming they're not going to come and work that hard and then they know in their minds, okay, I'm spending a minimum of five hundred yeah, I'm assuming made me understand that I have never had a product minimum. And and, you know, also you have to remember working with the client from start to finish when you're starting on the first phone call with here's what we specialize in here's, what we do when you're working with them and working through that process. There's no way in there in anyone's, right mind they could ever come in thinking by the time I'm done with them, that they could just buy a couple eight by tens and five by seven, you know, it's, just not part of the deal, that's not what we do, and so so what does it? It works for me not to have one, and again my mentality is that that minimum kind of is a ceiling instead of let's go beyond that. Tina j mac's photography levan your workshop thank you so much question on pricing I come from a sales and marketing background and like in any business, getting new customers is so much more expensive than repeat clients, so I give repeats a small discount or bonus for coming back. Do you think that's a bad practice? I don't think that's a bad practice, as long as as you're raising prices, you're still rising prices with those people, even if they get a discount. Another thing that I've seen people do, and I haven't incorporated this, although we do it a little bit with the birthday club but give people a lifetime membership so that they don't even pay a session fee and that's a great way to reward your past clients is to say, once you buy into this, you've got sessions for life and it is a really great way to reward well spending clients, you know, you want to make sure they keep coming back to you, so you're a v I p okay saddles and tack would like to know at what point is the price. Listen to a client, it says. For example, the client calls out of the blue no referrals you talk price on the package philosophy on that first call and then immediately send out the price list we always send it after the first phone call, but that's after I've built a relationship and started that communication process on this is what we do. You always wanna build value before sending the price, so I want to answer them with a yes when they call and say, you know, hi, I was wondering if I could get your pricing, you're priceless. Absolutely we'd be happy to send you our product menu is my answer, and then I want to find out how did you hear about us? Who are we gonna be photographing and start that communication process, building the relationship, building the value of what we do? And then absolutely once we schedule that session, even if they choose not to schedule with me at that time, I'll send him the products menu totally fine with me. I want them to be presented with the pricing before they come in, but again, the products menu is, is it's like a five product of really what we're communicating? We're communicating. What we specialize in is custom logic, or we're getting excited about walking around their house and photographing spots that we they might consider hanging a portrait, and I'm telling them I'm going to be working with them to custom design something for them, and so it becomes a different process, so when they get that products menu not the price list but the product menu then it's just something that they're gonna going through enjoying instead of of analyzing a price list wei have so many questions laurie here to figure out the most relevant okay so a question from glory peanut monkey laurie for all of your great questions who says I've had clients recently who are in transition and getting ready to move so they don't know their wall space is some have invested in wall are anyway because they need they one of those images big but how do you handle the objection of we don't know what our walls are going to look like? Well, one of the things that we've done with if it's if it's like a color issue that kind of thing we recommend campus gallery wraps because then you're you khun go into any home this campus rap that I have around the corner I don't know if you guys could see that but um it's got it's got a blue background but typically campus rats are just going to be the the whole image wrapped around the print and so you're not worried about matching a frame with the decor style and we do a lot of campus traps um I always suggest for people to make their campus wraps the same price as having a frames print in that way you're just selling a finished option this is ready to hang and so whether it's you know, wild survey frames or campus collar wraps or even traditional framing just get a ballpark price that your cost of sale is built into each one and sell it all the same. That way you're selling that finished option for them. But campus raps, I would definitely suggests the other thing is to if they're building, you know, they probably have a design blueprint. Would you call that? You know? Yeah. The blueprint floor plan. Thank you. Floor plan that you know, that it's going to show the window space is going to show where a fireplace is going to show. You know, those kind of things. And so you could even go take it a step further and act as a designer and that way to say, you know, if you wantto share your blueprints with me or if I if you want me to meet with your designer, your builder, I'd be happy to go over things with them so that we can make the right choices for your new home. Um so on. So old godzilla was no did laurie did laurie razor prices gradually, or did you pick your target market range and build from there? I did not raise them gradually, but it was because I was in a crash and burn. Place and I did raise my prices over a night and it was one of those things it's not necessarily what I recommend, but it was one of those things that it was for me. I don't care if anybody ever comes again because I don't like anybody and I was in that mode of if I had a bad day or had bad client, I was raised my prices and so it's and it's one of the reasons for a long time all I had was a pdf of my price list. I've done that for years and years and nothing's been printed and now we do finally have just one menu in the studio and I have one menu when I go to events, but for years everything was just a pdf and it was because if I wanted to change my prices tomorrow, I was going to and are. My menus have always been seasonally dated, so it'll say winter two thousand twelve and it makes it very easy to change an update when you're just doing it digitally. So, um, you know, for someone who knows they need to raise the price is gradually is mean that there's a big variable there because while you don't want to shock your client, it's also it's hard to do it in baby steps because you're you need to be profitable and pricing for profit is one of those things that's and we'll we'll go through a model here so that I can kind of show you just the lowest base pricing is cost space pricing, and then you go up from there based on your experience and the market demand and those kind of things, but cost base pricing is the bare minimum that we should work for, and I'll show you guys that, but when you're when you're at that point and you're charging three, ninety five foot by six and we've got to make some changes, my bad, we've got to make some changes with that, I can't happen gradually. And so what I would suggest to kristen working with her is that, you know, we put some some parameters in place so that, yes, this is my new pricing, but when somebody flips out or I feel like I'm gonna lose somebody, I can plug them into a portrait event, or I can plug them into a special event. I can plug them into a friends and family day, whatever that might be. So and like I said, for somebody that really, really needs to make that jump, that might happen once a month in the beginning where you can plug those old clients back into something, but typically the way we all start in this business. Is photographing our friends and photographing our family and photographing people who will take advantage and walk all over us and tell their best friend, tell their best friend, hey, if you call and tell her I sent you shall do it for free, you know, we all have been there, I've been there too, and so when you have that, when that's your pocket a clientele, then it's time to just say, okay, here is what my business is now going to look like. These people are not my target client, yes, they're still my friends. I'll plug him into family, friends and family day if I have to, but, you know, one of the reasons my second shooter is so happy to be with me and have the price is that I'm doing it's because she has to say no to those people, you know, she she can't let them walk all over her anymore because now she can't photograph outside of the studio, um, only immediate family and so it's it's a blessing to be able to have that to say no. And so, you know, if you don't have the, you know, the colonies to say, uh, you know, this is my my business model, this is what I've got to do to feed my family then put those little parameters in place that you can work with those people as you need to, and they'll start falling off, you know? And as you get busier and busier with the right client, you're gonna let him saw off. Do you have your second on a non compete? She I mean, yeah, sort of. I mean, you can't really, uh, not compete, doesn't really hold, because you can't take away someone's word right toe work, right? However, you know, I can have her not take sessions outside of the studio for money. I can have her not ever contact any of our studio clients out, even the ones that she's photographed. Those things are studio property that that, yes, that she can't do.